View Full Version : Needing a smaller 9mm EDC... with a manual safety?
I've been carrying a USP Compact 9mm for the better part of two years. Problem is, I print when I carry it fairly noticeably. I'm 5'10" 175lbs and pretty straight body-wise, so any kind of IWB carry causes a noticeable bulge.
Normally, I'd just buy a smaller handgun. My challenge is that I want a dead-nuts tested and reliable handgun... and I prefer (read: need) a manual safety. It's personal preference and all that - no offense taken from those who think they're not needed. This is how I wound up carrying a USPc 9.
Anyways, back to the problem: most guns that meet my criteria really aren't much smaller. That's led me to look at some compact 1911's, M&P 9mm w/ safety, and the P30SKS. That's about all I could find.
The P30SKS meets the requirements, but it's not THAT much smaller size-wise. I do think a slimmer-fitting 9mm 1911 would be a good improvement, but then we're back to the reliability problem. I'm sure there are reliable 9mm 1911's out there, but I don't really have a starting point. I'm really not a fan of the M&P. So, now I'm looking for recommendations and feedback.
Any recommendations, either for a 9mm 1911 compact or for something else I haven't considered?
Thanks!
The m&p Shield is available with a manual safety. It’s probably the best of the guns in that size.
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parishioner
05-13-19, 16:47
The manual safety P365 might be something to consider. They were announced in January but unsure if they are released yet.
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tacticaldesire
05-13-19, 16:55
Try appendix carry. It takes some getting used to but should solve your printing issue not to mention the other numerous advantages.
Anything is going to print without the right holster or in the wrong position. I can manage to print with a Shield at 4'o Clock if I'm really looking and I'm 6'2" 220lbs. Don't overthink it.
If you want a 9mm 1911, Don't go any cheaper than a Springfield, most will agree that's the baseline as far as reliability goes in the 1911 realm.
Shield with a safety. The 365 is not out yet with a safety and probably doesn't meet your reliability requirement yet.
I would suggest a shield.
I dont know if there is a gadget available for the thin glocks, but maybe a g48 with one if that would ve acceptable to you.
The m&p Shield is available with a manual safety. It’s probably the best of the guns in that size.
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Copy that. +1
Mine has a safety and I owned it for months before I knew it was there.
PB
Ruger LC9s, nice a little can be had with a manual safety, love mine
Defaultmp3
05-13-19, 21:14
5'8", ~140 lb, I AIWB a P30LS with +5 base pads (along with RMR, carry comp, carry magwell, and X400UH). AIWB was the only way I could conceal carry without printing; I do it with size small t-shirts and skinny jeans. I would keep the USP-C and try out AIWB with a good holster, such as a JMCK.
I've also been looking for a small 9 mm with a useful thumb safety. I've been carrying a Shield for several years but the ergos of the thumb safety suck. I contacted Apex and asked if they had any plans of making an aftermarket upgraded thumb safety. I couldn't get in an answer out of them. "We don't release details...." I've shot more than 3,000 rounds through my shield. I love the gun. I just get a bit nervous holstering it without a thumb safety.
I shot the Ruger a bit and was surprised that I liked it. It's not a bad gun. The thumb safety is metal and actually is usable.
Sig has a nasty habit of using consumer market as beta testers. The 365, 320 problems as well as the problems my PD had with the SRT trigger system made me never want to buy their guns again.
Beretta Cheetah 84 FS (13+1) or 85 FS (8+1 but thinner). Both .380 acp.
Mec-gar mags $20.
DA / SA and frame mounted safety / decocker.
https://www.bing.com/th?id=OIP.CT0GmPTyX4vmA1qPH1yiFAHaEK&w=300&h=168&c=7&o=5&pid=1.7
5'8", ~140 lb, I AIWB a P30LS with +5 base pads (along with RMR, carry comp, carry magwell, and X400UH). AIWB was the only way I could conceal carry without printing; I do it with size small t-shirts and skinny jeans. I would keep the USP-C and try out AIWB with a good holster, such as a JMCK.
Who made your holster and which model is it? I've been looking for something for a usp45
I would suggest a shield.
I dont know if there is a gadget available for the thin glocks, but maybe a g48 with one if that would ve acceptable to you.
If you’re talking about the striker control device, yes they are available for the thin Glocks.
On the original question, my buddies that carry Shields like them, and I’m not surprised to see them as the most common answer to the OP.
Also, to the OP, kahr pm9 has a safety model now. I carry a non safety version occasionally, but like you would prefer a safety. I normally carry HK firearms, p30s and usp. Pm9 has basically the same manual of arms and feel as a lem usp, just a lot smaller.
I think mine has been 100% in my hands. I actually just used it in a competition last weekend. However, the few people besides me that have tried it experienced non stop jamming. I think it has to do with grip strength and recoil management, because again, I dont remember ever having an issue with it.
I've read a lot of internet complaints on pm9s and they may be valid... no idea. I think some of it is also like the people who have tried mine and just cant handle the pistol for some reason.... I dont know.
I have a shield 45 also and it always fires, but sometimes has issues with the slide locking back. I like it but it feels quite a bit different from the HKs. It's not a natural transition like to the pm9.
Just my personal experience
I have seen Glocks with thumb safeties. It's an aftermarket part but it's out there
P30sks or Nighthawk T3/ T4
Defaultmp3
05-14-19, 09:25
Who made your holster and which model is it? I've been looking for something for a usp45Custom order from JMCK. Sent him the complete slide assembly with comp, along with the X400U, and just had him make what he considered a viable AIWB holster. I don't know if he still does that kind of custom work, he's gotten pretty busy.
titsonritz
05-15-19, 00:04
S&W Shield is your answer.
SilentRecon
05-16-19, 09:05
Can you explain why you prefer a manual safety vs non for primary CCW? I understand everyone has their opinions but I'm curious.
This is how I approach this and only my worthless opinion.
The absolute last thing I would ever want to think about if my life is now in the tipping scales of a criminals hand is the real possibility to fumble with a manual safety. I'm talking about a real life- live or die situation, not what you perceive in your head will happen. Most people think they have time, can create sepearation etc- not realistic IMO.
What if you are in a one on one struggle on the ground? If you are semi incapacitated by a blow, ambushed from behind, hurt, the long list goes on. Is having that manual safety going to outweigh the possibility you will fumble with it? I understand practice can help negate those possibilities but most people do not train realistically and that extra second or two could have undesired consequences.
If you are holstering a firearm (not floating around in your pocket or a womans purse- do NOT recommend that) then that is your safety.. draw, point, shoot. Take away anything else that doesnt simplify that equation.
Anyone else have reasoning behind needing/wanting a manual safety for your primary CCW?
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The possibility of accidentally discharging the firearm while reholstering is the main reason I like having a manual safety. This can happen when a wad of t-shirt or clothing gets in the trigger guard or sits on top of the holster. Draw cord adjusters should be removed from all cover garments.
http://gundigest.com/reviews/draw-quickly-holster-slowly-and-with-care?et_mid=573933&rid=233879035
SilentRecon
05-16-19, 09:55
The possibility of accidentally discharging the firearm while reholstering is the main reason I like having a manual safety. This can happen when a wad of t-shirt or clothing gets in the trigger guard or sits on top of the holster. Draw cord adjusters should be removed from all cover garments.
http://gundigest.com/reviews/draw-quickly-holster-slowly-and-with-care?et_mid=573933&rid=233879035I can understand your reasoning but only as a safety bulletin concern. This type of accident is minuscule in percentages and considered negligence discharge. Same would be said with people that accidentally pull the trigger when they draw their firearm. Being cognisive ALWAYS of trigger finger discipline and re-holstering your firearm, knowing your apparel, and practice almost always negates accidents like that. Yes, they still can happen but its few and far. Wanting a manual safety for that reason alone IMO does not outweigh the possible consequence of fumbling with it in a time of real distress. It also gives you a false sense of safety because you don't trust yourself holstering your gun.
Trust yourself.
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I can understand your reasoning but only as a safety bulletin concern. This type of accident is minuscule in percentages and considered negligence discharge. Same would be said with people that accidentally pull the trigger when they draw their firearm. Being cognisive ALWAYS of trigger finger discipline and re-holstering your firearm, knowing your apparel, and practice almost always negates accidents like that. Yes, they still can happen but its few and far. Wanting a manual safety for that reason alone IMO does not outweigh the possible consequence of fumbling with it in a time of real distress. It also gives you a false sense of safety because you don't trust yourself holstering your gun.
Trust yourself.
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It's actually not a minuscule percentage. If someone doesn't want a thumb safety good for them. I can care less. 1911 shooters have been doing just fine with their thumb safetys for more than a few years. Trust has nothing to do with a zipper pull or draw cord adjuster finding its way into the mouth of your holster.
Here is another one
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/02/daniel-zimmerman/389874/
Glock 26/43/43x/48 with a striker control device.
john armond
05-16-19, 12:03
How about a DA/SA pistol with decocker only? That way you can reholster with your thumb on the hammer. I know is on the larger size, but I am more than happy with my 92 Compacts with "G" conversion. If I feel any pressure on my thumb from the hammer while reholstering, I know something is wrong.
Edited to add: Disregard my post. Forgot you were looking for smaller. As much as I like it, there's nothing really "compact" about the 92 Compact.
Adrenaline_6
05-16-19, 13:27
Do you "think" you print badly or has someone told you so. I am slim myself and IWB a full size P30. I though it was fairly noticeable myself until my wife told me she didn't even notice it and I was wearing shorts and a tshirt. Now I don't pay it any mind and a good buddy of mine who knows I carry at church jokingly went to pat at it and went for my right hip and I shoot pistol left handed - again, shorts and a tshirt. He is clueless gun wise, but again, most people are.
Can you explain why you prefer a manual safety vs non for primary CCW? I understand everyone has their opinions but I'm curious.
This is how I approach this and only my worthless opinion.
The absolute last thing I would ever want to think about if my life is now in the tipping scales of a criminals hand is the real possibility to fumble with a manual safety. I'm talking about a real life- live or die situation, not what you perceive in your head will happen. Most people think they have time, can create sepearation etc- not realistic IMO.
What if you are in a one on one struggle on the ground? If you are semi incapacitated by a blow, ambushed from behind, hurt, the long list goes on. Is having that manual safety going to outweigh the possibility you will fumble with it? I understand practice can help negate those possibilities but most people do not train realistically and that extra second or two could have undesired consequences.
If you are holstering a firearm (not floating around in your pocket or a womans purse- do NOT recommend that) then that is your safety.. draw, point, shoot. Take away anything else that doesnt simplify that equation.
Anyone else have reasoning behind needing/wanting a manual safety for your primary CCW?
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Regarding a safety: the most pressing reason I prefer a safety is because there are many instances in my day to day when a holster is not a viable option. It's not the same as a good holster, but a da/sa with a safety is close enough that I'm not concerned about ND in those situations. Using the safety is automatic for me and doesn't present any issues.
SilentRecon
05-17-19, 07:58
Regarding a safety: the most pressing reason I prefer a safety is because there are many instances in my day to day when a holster is not a viable option. It's not the same as a good holster, but a da/sa with a safety is close enough that I'm not concerned about ND in those situations. Using the safety is automatic for me and doesn't present any issues.Thats a good reason with no holster option. My thought was if you are going to holster a weapon then I'd steer away but if it's also something you are comfortable with then by all means. I've always wanted the fastest method available for me which is why I love Glock. I'm sure there are guys that can easily draw their firearm with manual saftey and get in target faster than anyone.
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If you dont want a Cheetah because its .380 the Cz Rami mentioned is a good option.
Or one of the other few Da / Sa choices.
Or a revolver. I reccomend the 6-shot .327 Fed Ruger LCR. (And carry .32 magnum if you dont the blast)
tucsondirt
05-17-19, 21:38
The possibility of accidentally discharging the firearm while reholstering is the main reason I like having a manual safety. This can happen when a wad of t-shirt or clothing gets in the trigger guard or sits on top of the holster. Draw cord adjusters should be removed from all cover garments.
http://gundigest.com/reviews/draw-quickly-holster-slowly-and-with-care?et_mid=573933&rid=233879035
If you are concerned about this I’d also suggest a Springfield XDS with a grip safety.
While I carry a Shield w thumb safety primarily, I also carry an XD9 service with a grip safety. I ensure I am not engaging the grip safety when I reholster. I have never had a problem properly engaging the grip safety when I draw and fire.
The XDS is a smaller CCW size Springfield and comes in 9mm and 45 ACP.
Walther CCP? Haven't shot one, but ergonomics seem good.
Kahr PM9 just about 100% requires loading by dropping the slide stop vs. slingshot and magazines tend to lose a round or 2 while being carried. Other wise, they are pretty slick and are tiny compared to just about anything 9x19 I can think of.
Shield is only thinner, not necessarily smaller. The butt of the pistol is still relatively large, IMO.
The Walther CCP is a good choice, with the small magazine. I didn't like the multiple capacity magazines, since it made every reload 'different.' I can't explain,but just felt the changing baseplate size made things awkward.
The P365 is, IMO, a great choice. Smaller butt, reloads aren't quite as awkward with the CCP. Sure, there's the (relatively recent) question of reliabliity ... which I think is overblown online (again, IMO). I have a full size and compact S&W M&P 9, both the 'gen 2' versions. To me, the p365 is what the Shield should have been. It just naturally follows the ergos and natural POA for me. If it comes with the safety at some point, give it serious look.
I've tried a commander size 1911, Glock 19, Ruger LCP II, Springfield 911, Sig 228, Sig 229, and a gen 1 M&P compact, in addition to the three pistols above, as a CCW option. I liked the LCP2 as well, but a .380 just didn't buy me the piece of mind, plus it's a snappy MF'er. I really like the Sig.
Ruger LC9s, nice a little can be had with a manual safety, love mine
Or, if your looking for a similar one at a cheaper price, the EC9s. Mine is great...my daughter has the LC9s, and it is the same as the EC9s, with better sights.
Do you "think" you print badly or has someone told you so. I am slim myself and IWB a full size P30. I though it was fairly noticeable myself until my wife told me she didn't even notice it and I was wearing shorts and a tshirt. Now I don't pay it any mind and a good buddy of mine who knows I carry at church jokingly went to pat at it and went for my right hip and I shoot pistol left handed - again, shorts and a tshirt. He is clueless gun wise, but again, most people are.
If you can't conceal a USP 9mm compact, then consider changing holsters and/ or your method of dress.
That pistol is almost identical in size to the Glock 19 in size. I have owned and carried both.
I laugh when I see someone carrying a pistol wearing Jean's and a tight or slim fitted shirt, because it shows.
I even carried a Glock 17 and 226 with extra mags concealed.
Most people are not eye balling you for carrying a gun except for cops and criminals.
If you can't conceal a USP 9mm compact, then consider changing holsters and/ or your method of dress.
That pistol is almost identical in size to the Glock 19 in size. I have owned and carried both.
I laugh when I see someone carrying a pistol wearing Jean's and a tight or slim fitted shirt, because it shows.
I even carried a Glock 17 and 226 with extra mags concealed.
Most people are not eye balling you for carrying a gun except for cops and criminals.
I agree. A holster better suited to concealed carry & a loose fitting t-shirt should cover a compact handgun just fine. I like the Carhart Ts, because I'm tall & they're the only ones that I can find with a long shirt tail anymore. Heck, get one of those loud printed Hawaiian shirts & you can conceal a Remington 870. A Glock 19/Sig 229 is about as small a handgun as I'm comfortable shooting or carrying & nobody's ever said anything to me.
It's been my experience holster choice, proper waist position, proper belt and clothing selection have more effect on concealabilty that choice of pistol
FWIW, health issues have forced me to downsize my EDC most of the time. I picked up a Ruger EC9s about a year ago and out of necessity it's filled that role. It's minimalist, basic, runs well, shoots to the (fixed) sights, and drops into a pocket. Nobody notices. It has a manual safety for those as like them; I never use it.For years a S&W 442 filled that role--but I like this better. Not to mention it's a $200 gun.
OP, if carrying appendix, look into the holsters that have the "claw" on them. It really helps push the butt into you side.
This is nice, get the metal clips though
https://www.jmcustomkydex.com/p/AIWB-WC2.html
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