Why do we eat our own? [Archive] - M4Carbine.net Forums

fingerguns

05-14-19, 13:52

Sry0fcr

05-14-19, 14:28

Most of the manufacturers that caught sh!t did something to earn at least some of it. Then you have the F.A.E. (forum amplification effect) which makes it seem like the world is mad at them when in reality, it's like 50 cubicle dwellers avoiding doing actual work.

26 Inf

05-14-19, 14:28

In all seriousness, I think a manufacturer becomes 'the darling' on an internet forum because someone with stature on the forum endorses them. It is easy to say something derogatory like 'then the fawning masses follow' but that isn't truly the case. Folks on forums want to participate, one way to participate is to acknowledge a good experience with the manufacturer.

The momentum builds from there and more folks chime in because people also want to belong to the group that is winning. Anyone that disagrees at this point is shouted down. Therefore most people who disagree keeps their thoughts to themselves.

Some folks, maybe those with oppositional defiant disorder :) or, those who are naturally inquisitive and willing to put some thought into decisionmaking or, those who have had a bad experience with the manufacture, begin to question the assumption that the 'darling' manufacturer is all that darling.

At that point the folks who didn't really by-into the 'darlingness' of the manufacture but have been silent begin to speak up. The process begins again.

Anyways, that is what I think, based on what I know about group dynamics. The reality is that in many cases the manufacture is really an acceptable manufacturer.

Duffy

05-14-19, 15:35

Fan fueled hype needs to be handled carefully, lest the brand should start to believe in it and think itself invincible, and can do no wrong.

Pride in quality and service is one thing, it's not the same thing as hubris and arrogance.

The industry seems to have an unspoken rule to speak no evil of anyone. By the time the consumers notice something, it's usually far worse and gone on much longer.

MegademiC

05-14-19, 16:42

People act extreme online. “Its the best” or “its junk” are the 2 most common answers.

Stick with something that has a reputation of quality and CS and forget the bs.
I would not hesitate to use any of the manufacturers you listed.

magister

05-14-19, 17:00

TheAlsatian

05-14-19, 17:06

You see that type of behavior in nearly all online forums. Tools, cars, sports, etc. You name it. It doesn’t seem specific to firearms or firearm forums to me.

My opinion..... There’s about 7 billion people on the planet, and a great many wind up on the internet with a lot of them speaking (typing) on forums. The static to noise ratio can get pretty high.

Absolutely..try participating in the Porsche forums...it makes us look like cub scouts. On the other hand you have to have "purists" to point out flaws and thereby improve the overall products. ARs in particular have made great strides since even the 90s, and I have been into guns since the early 70s.

Five_Point_Five_Six

05-14-19, 17:50

I've been into the AR thing only a couple of years now but it's been long enough to note a trend. Seems like the community will have a darling manufacturer and everyone will sell their first born to buy there stuff then like a switch was thrown, people start chucking shade. You see it with everything and some of it has merit but for them most part it seems like high sport and entertainment to build up to tear down. Seems Geissele is the current target but I have seen: EO Tech, Aimpoint, Daniel Defense, Magpul, LaRue, BCM, Surefire, Troy and others take their turn at the stick. Is this a simple issue of competitors shading enough until it takes hold or do we as a community look forward to tearing apart manufacturers?

Here's why the internet hated those companies for a hot minute. (Some of which may or may not be true, depending on your personal perspective)

•Geissele sued some people.
•Eotech ignored a major flaw in their optics.
•Aimpoints are expensive.
•Marty Daniel stepped on his dick and made a statement in support of gun control, also over gassed uppers.
•Magpul didn't offer enough color PMAGS, and the BAD lever sucked ass.
•Mark LaRue is kind of a douche, but he makes good stuff.
•BCM lowers may or may not work with PMAGS.
•Surefire gave money to antigun politicians, also expensive.
•Troy hired one of the Ruby Ridge snipers.

TomMcC

05-14-19, 17:52

Deleted.

WickedWillis

05-14-19, 18:16

Here's why the internet hated those companies for a hot minute. (Some of which may or may not be true, depending on your personal perspective)

•Geissele sued some people.
•Eotech ignored a major flaw in their optics.
•Aimpoints are expensive.
•Marty Daniel stepped on his dick and made a statement in support of gun control, also over gassed uppers.
•Magpul didn't offer enough color PMAGS, and the BAD lever sucked ass.
•Mark LaRue is kind of a douche, but he makes good stuff.
•BCM lowers may or may not work with PMAGS.
•Surefire gave money to antigun politicians, also expensive.
•Troy hired one of the Ruby Ridge snipers.

Most of these are very valid points. LaRue is getting off easy in your assessment though :D

Five_Point_Five_Six

05-14-19, 18:33

Most of these are very valid points. LaRue is getting off easy in your assessment though :D

These are the cliff notes, it's highly encouraged for those who seek the answers to these questions to use the search function as well as google to get the whole story.;)

mark5pt56

05-14-19, 18:37

Most if not all companies/people have some sort of baggage. Some we will never know, speculation, past behavior elsewhere, firsthand knowledge to confirm suspicion of such while whitewashed to the new kids by someone with something to gain. Same stuff, different place, etc. I've always said the one who can spend hours upon hours on a forum is the default king.

Some groups are funny, the 6.5 Grendel crowd, Blue Box Smith and Wesson purist and the dips hits on Marlin Owners. When we get to AR's, sure I'm a brand snob, but I also have seen first hand what is considered garbage here, shoot more than 99.9% of people here could ever afford to run through one and not break, by the hundreds.

markm

05-14-19, 18:53

Manufacturers of garbage guns don't necessarily bother me. It's when the manufacturer lies, Astro turf the forums, and turn customers away when their junk fails that I blast them.

LWRC and Olympics Arms are the two monumental scum bag companies that build complete junk and act as though they have premium stuff.

RHINOWSO

05-14-19, 19:30

Better yet is all the $hit some manufacturers talk about each other on TOS.

It's worse than a bunch of high schoolers over there, each trying to win the "LIKE ME" award.

The industry seems to have an unspoken rule to speak no evil of anyone. By the time the consumers notice something, it's usually far worse and gone on much longer.
Certainly doesn't seem to be in effect on TOS... ;)

Duffy

05-14-19, 21:11

jpmuscle

05-14-19, 21:52

Just don’t go on TOS and push back against the shillers *cough I mean site sponsors pushing BS. It ruffles their britches.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

SeriousStudent

05-14-19, 22:15

And some people wonder why we have a "Contact the manufacturer first" rule......

pointblank4445

05-14-19, 22:25

It's all business. Smart business and altruism go together like oil and water. Too many people mistake smart, mutually beneficial moves to be good will and get way too emotional about this stuff. It's best to leave emotions out of it and stay objective.

OH58D

05-14-19, 22:30

I bought my first Colt AR15a2 HBar in 1988 after my promotion to Army Captain. It was a gift to myself. I had previously shot the M16a1 and carried in my aircraft the CAR15 XM177. During the ban years 1994-2004, I bought a Bushmaster. Traded it in for an LMT after the ban. Now I only own @ a dozen Colts and LMTs, including SBRs.

Some of us are familiar with certain brands, but if all I had was a Bushmaster or Stag, etc., I'd shoot it. If it stopped functioning in a critical situation, I'd use it as a club. My philosophy is if it sends lead down range with some level of accuracy, go with it. Considering the prices for what are considered top-end ARs these days, your money goes a long ways. Buy what you can afford and have fun shooting it. If you want greater reliability, you can improve on the base low-end weapon by minor parts changes. You're not going to get any lip from me as to what brand you buy.

rpoL98

05-15-19, 04:31

Here's why the internet hated those companies for a hot minute. (Some of which may or may not be true, depending on your personal perspective)

•Geissele sued some people.
•Eotech ignored a major flaw in their optics.
•Aimpoints are expensive.
•Marty Daniel stepped on his dick and made a statement in support of gun control, also over gassed uppers.
•Magpul didn't offer enough color PMAGS, and the BAD lever sucked ass.
•Mark LaRue is kind of a douche, but he makes good stuff.
•BCM lowers may or may not work with PMAGS.
•Surefire gave money to antigun politicians, also expensive.
•Troy hired one of the Ruby Ridge snipers.

and there's a couple of folks that are real butthurt about Aero, "their specs", their lowers may or may not work with Lancers. they never waste an opportunity to flame on.

Joelski

05-15-19, 06:03

Firefly

05-15-19, 06:09

I only like KAC because they are offensively expensive and LMT because they make tranny ARs.

midSCarolina

05-15-19, 06:13

Better yet is all the $hit some manufacturers talk about each other on TOS.

It's worse than a bunch of high schoolers over there, each trying to win the "LIKE ME" award.

Certainly doesn't seem to be in effect on TOS... ;)

How that KB guy from Q talks about his customers and competition :nono:

I completely agree with markm. I don't mind manufacturers of low cost stuff as long as they are honest about what products actually are (and that these LWRC DI rifles suuuck haha). I honestly think this site is a little too tough on PSA. These are $330 ARs and are actually pretty ok. Not colt, not KAC, or anything like that but they allow people who would be typically excluded from the market due to financial constraints (1st time buyers, working people with a lot of other expenses, etc). PSA is about as 2nd amendment friendly as any company I have seen so I think they need to get a little more credit for what they do. I own one and it is ok for what it is. Its nice to have a rifle I don't care about.

Firefly

05-15-19, 06:21

One day...I wanna mate an HK416 upper to an Anderson Lower just to unleash the Effing Fury...

mark5pt56

05-15-19, 07:29

One day...I wanna mate an HK416 upper to an Anderson Lower just to unleash the Effing Fury...

Bet it would run!

mark5pt56

05-15-19, 07:29

One day...I wanna mate an HK416 upper to an Anderson Lower just to unleash the Effing Fury...

Bet it would run!

ozarkpugs

05-15-19, 08:44

ANDERSON LOWERS = junk!!!! When I started to get parts together to build my first AR I told the Smith at my local gun shop I wanted him to order me a quality lower not an Anderson because everyone said they were junk . He said he had built hundreds of lowers and uppers with about every brand sold and kept up with ones he had problems with and Anderson was as good as any . He said he had to lap uppers from the most expensive companies and some Anderson uppers were ok out of the box . People are snobbish and want anything they own to be great and others brand to be junk .

Sent from my Moto E (4) using Tapatalk

Five_Point_Five_Six

05-15-19, 10:10

And some people wonder why we have a "Contact the manufacturer first" rule......

I recently had a issue with an upper from a well known and highly respected manufacturer. Rather than unleash capslock hell on the internet, I sent them an email. I got a phone call back the next morning and they took care of the situation in spades, way above and beyond what was expected. Funny how going through the proper channels first seems to lend the best results most of the time.

One day...I wanna mate an HK416 upper to an Anderson Lower just to unleash the Effing Fury...

While it's not quite the same ratio of poor to bougie, I have a BCM BFH upper that I put on a PSA lower and posted a picture of it in some Facebook gun groups. The poors and the big wallet flexers were all angry that day. I've thought about form 1'ing the lower, since it's the first PSA lower I've had that was in spec all around, then seeing how angry they get. I've spent $200 and waited a couple weeks for things that brought less joy and excitement.

MWAG19919

05-15-19, 10:15

How that KB guy from Q talks about his customers and competition :nono:

I completely agree with markm. I don't mind manufacturers of low cost stuff as long as they are honest about what products actually are (and that these LWRC DI rifles suuuck haha). I honestly think this site is a little too tough on PSA. These are $330 ARs and are actually pretty ok. Not colt, not KAC, or anything like that but they allow people who would be typically excluded from the market due to financial constraints (1st time buyers, working people with a lot of other expenses, etc). PSA is about as 2nd amendment friendly as any company I have seen so I think they need to get a little more credit for what they do. I own one and it is ok for what it is. Its nice to have a rifle I don't care about.

PSA doesn’t perform rigorous QC like our favorite brands, so there are plenty of documented incidents of improperly staked gas keys, castle nuts, overgassed barrels, etc. My experience with two complete lowers has been positive overall. They certainly cut corners by weakly staking the castle nuts on the two lowers. It never caused a problem or backed out, but my dad and I eventually staked them properly a few months ago. The RE seemed to be very lightly torqued as well (shoutout to Iraqgunz for predicting that). And they use carbine weight buffers.

That said, I still recommend their lowers to friends looking for a quality first rifle on the cheap. Buy a complete PSA lower, spend $30 for a proper buffer, and snap that sumbitch onto a quality complete upper. The point about them being 2A friendly is a good one. It wouldn’t excuse them from putting out true junk (DPMS), but as a customer I certainly appreciate when they went out of their way to get mags to CA. Ditto for Magpul handing out PMAGs in VT. We rightly chastise companies for anti 2A moves, but we can do a better job of supporting pro 2A companies.

fingerguns

05-15-19, 10:24

Good talk here. When I decided to buy an AR I did as little research as possible. I wanted to avoid the paralysis by analysis trap I so often get into. I decided on a DDV7LW based on the way it felt and looked, no joke. I am happy with it and don't give two flips about the FixNICS issue Marty had. I actually had to go look it back up as I forgot.

The reason I asked is because of a comment I received from a random guy at the range the other day. He saw I had a DD said he'd never shoot one for the love of God or money. I asked him why and his response was "as if you didn't know". I thought that was really weird, almost conspiracy tin foil hattish. It seems like the more I look lately, the more I see this kid of stuff. Most of my hobbies have some really weird people skirting the edges, I guess this is no different.

WickedWillis

05-15-19, 10:33

Just don’t go on TOS and push back against the shillers *cough I mean site sponsors pushing BS. It ruffles their britches.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That, and they unleash the rabid fanboys to slander and harass their competition constantly. Another big reason I've been turned off and won't buy a certain Texas company's products anymore. Starts with a La ends with a Rue. However, I will never treat someone like trash for using a manufacturer I don't like, or don't support.

Fanboys of all walks do some of the devil's work on that site though, and go completely unchecked.

tehpwnag3

05-15-19, 11:23

RHINOWSO

05-15-19, 12:57

Quite right, TOS is for entertainment, m4c for knowledge. I can only take "but Stroke Industries are cheaper" so many times, it's an insult to be compared to foreign pot metal Gucci ghetto fashion poop makers.
TOS is like bad porn, some mfgs over there forget that when the lights come on, people remember what they were saying and who they've been blowing.

Entertain and enlightening.

WS6

05-15-19, 13:14

I've been into the AR thing only a couple of years now but it's been long enough to note a trend. Seems like the community will have a darling manufacturer and everyone will sell their first born to buy there stuff then like a switch was thrown, people start chucking shade. You see it with everything and some of it has merit but for them most part it seems like high sport and entertainment to build up to tear down. Seems Geissele is the current target but I have seen: EO Tech, Aimpoint, Daniel Defense, Magpul, LaRue, BCM, Surefire, Troy and others take their turn at the stick. Is this a simple issue of competitors shading enough until it takes hold or do we as a community look forward to tearing apart manufacturers?

Geissele: Potentially shady government acquisition practices, suing a marine, massive product mark-up that people are catching onto.
Eotech: Lied to the warfighter and LE and civilian customer. Knowingly falsely represented product.
Aimpoint: Lied about product/Parallax issues.
Daniel Defense: Supported anti-gun-ownership legislature, walked it back hard and fast, but not hard and fast enough.
Magpul: Not sure about this one.
LaRue: Mark LaRue. What else needs saying?
BCM: Not sure about this one.
Surefire: We hate civilians and screw you! was their party line for years. They have really walked it back and are doing better, now.
Troy: Hired Jody Weis

That's about the sum of it. It's not random. It's not arbitrary. It's a response to a total illegal or plain dick move by said company.

phixion

05-15-19, 13:23

TOS

Us vs. Them

We're STILL doing that?

Some of you have your ego way too tied up into this crap.

Diamondback

05-15-19, 14:05

Geissele: Potentially shady government acquisition practices, suing a marine, massive product mark-up that people are catching onto.
Eotech: Lied to the warfighter and LE and civilian customer. Knowingly falsely represented product.
Aimpoint: Lied about product/Parallax issues.
Daniel Defense: Supported anti-gun-ownership legislature, walked it back hard and fast, but not hard and fast enough.
Magpul: Not sure about this one.
LaRue: Mark LaRue. What else needs saying?
BCM: Not sure about this one.
Surefire: We hate civilians and screw you! was their party line for years. They have really walked it back and are doing better, now.
Troy: Hired Jody Weis

That's about the sum of it. It's not random. It's not arbitrary. It's a response to a total illegal or plain dick move by said company.
You missed the Big Kahuna, though not related:
H-S Precision: Hired Murderin' Lon Horiuchi, who should be having to turn tricks in gay bars just to get enough money to feed himself

As for TOS, I knew all I needed to know about them when a particular estranged-for-cause shitbird relative best described as "a pile of toxic shit shoveled into a human skin" glowingly praised them.

everready73

05-15-19, 21:01

Geissele: Potentially shady government acquisition practices, suing a marine, massive product mark-up that people are catching onto.
Eotech: Lied to the warfighter and LE and civilian customer. Knowingly falsely represented product.
Aimpoint: Lied about product/Parallax issues.
Daniel Defense: Supported anti-gun-ownership legislature, walked it back hard and fast, but not hard and fast enough.
Magpul: Not sure about this one.
LaRue: Mark LaRue. What else needs saying?
BCM: Not sure about this one.
Surefire: We hate civilians and screw you! was their party line for years. They have really walked it back and are doing better, now.
Troy: Hired Jody Weis

That's about the sum of it. It's not random. It's not arbitrary. It's a response to a total illegal or plain dick move by said company.

Geissele also said on TOS they would look into the bent rail fiasco. It has been months and not a word. I guess they hope people forget about it. People are also made shoot the mk16/urg being marketed as the next military upper configuration but that didn't seem to be the case from my understanding

Surefire- aside from the civilian thing they were recently outed for contributing to anti 2a politicians. I know business is business and they probably do this to win a gov contact etc but it upset people

BCM- the Magpul m3 lower compatibility thing does exist. I still but s ton of BCM stuff.

BCM seems to be the new whipping boy on TOS. I can't believe some of the stuff people say or where they come up with it. Someone posted a thread about a badly machined BCG and it just ballooned from there

jpmuscle

05-15-19, 21:12

TOS nuking the geissele thread didn’t help matters.

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rpoL98

05-15-19, 22:38

... Is this a simple issue of competitors shading enough until it takes hold or do we as a community look forward to tearing apart manufacturers?
JIMHO, I think this comes from folks being able to hide behind their internet computer screen. We are lot more "courageous" and rude when we can hide behind the computer incognito.

In retrospect, this thread shouldn't be about citing all the known examples, and thereby throwing more gasoline onto the flames, even I provided an observed example, bad on me, but perhaps reflection on forum posting manners and decorum.

otherwise, yes, we eat our own, with glee and relish, it's a buffet free-for-all, unfortunately. maybe it's got something to do with how good manners (and family values?) are no longer a standard in modern society.

hell if I know...

docsherm

05-15-19, 22:41

That, and they unleash the rabid fanboys to slander and harass their competition constantly. Another big reason I've been turned off and won't buy a certain Texas company's products anymore. Starts with a La ends with a Rue. However, I will never treat someone like trash for using a manufacturer I don't like, or don't support.

Fanboys of all walks do some of the devil's work on that site though, and go completely unchecked.

Exactly....... go anywhere and talk the truth about BCM and the fanboy retards will come out of the woodwork.

Simple rule of firearms.... If it works, it works and you don't need to have everyone who is "cool" to pimp you crap.

docsherm

05-15-19, 22:42

TOS nuking the geissele thread didn’t help matters.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How so? I avoid that place like Ebola.

RobertTheTexan

05-15-19, 23:13

TOS is like bad porn, some mfgs over there forget that when the lights come on, people remember what they were saying and who they've been blowing.

Entertain and enlightening.

I’ve seen really bad porn (Does such a thing exist - other than fat ass ugly women porn) that I’d rather watch threepeats of, rather than spending time reading their forum pages. I think the primary thing I get tired of is the brow beating of quality parts and the elevation of their bullshit Chicom equipped AR’s that look like they came from the pages of Sears & Roebuck’s 1968 Fall catalogue.

RobertTheTexan

05-15-19, 23:14

How so? I avoid that place like Ebola.

The TOS Geissele thread or Geissele in general?

Or both.......? :jester:

MountainRaven

05-15-19, 23:26

JIMHO, I think this comes from folks being able to hide behind their internet computer screen. We are lot more "courageous" and rude when we can hide behind the computer incognito.

I think FaceBook has proven that anonymity isn't why people are rude on the internet.

Exactly....... go anywhere and talk the truth about BCM and the fanboy retards will come out of the woodwork.

Simple rule of firearms.... If it works, it works and you don't need to have everyone who is "cool" to pimp you crap.

What is the truth about BCM?

MorphCross

05-15-19, 23:41

Tribalism. Pure and simple. It goes back to the core of how humans and civilization developed.

jpmuscle

05-15-19, 23:49

I’ve seen really bad porn (Does such a thing exist - other than fat ass ugly women porn) that I’d rather watch threepeats of, rather than spending time reading their forum pages. I think the primary thing I get tired of is the brow beating of quality parts and the elevation of their bullshit Chicom equipped AR’s that look like they came from the pages of Sears & Roebuck’s 1968 Fall catalogue.

Poverty gats are still poverty gats

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

WS6

05-16-19, 04:28

That, and they unleash the rabid fanboys to slander and harass their competition constantly. Another big reason I've been turned off and won't buy a certain Texas company's products anymore. Starts with a La ends with a Rue. However, I will never treat someone like trash for using a manufacturer I don't like, or don't support.

Fanboys of all walks do some of the devil's work on that site though, and go completely unchecked.

I feel you there. I'm in a rough spot. Do I pay Geissele's insane mark-up, and accept that he's sued people I'm friends with and done shady shit? Or do I buy Mark's more appropriately priced trigger, even though he's insulted my friends and myself online and in person in the past? I chose the Mark option. Because the G thing reminded me of Lubegate, and it angered me all over again.

docsherm

05-16-19, 07:11

I think FaceBook has proven that anonymity isn't why people are rude on the internet.

What is the truth about BCM?

That it is nothing more then sone hobby grade stuff on par with PSA or DPMS but with much better marketing.

1168

05-16-19, 07:57

That it is nothing more then sone hobby grade stuff on par with PSA or DPMS but with much better marketing.

Dude. You just broke M4c.

docsherm

05-16-19, 08:06

Dude. You just broke M4c.

And you sir just won the internet........ ;)

I just shot coffee out my mouth because I was laughing so hard. LOLOLOLOL

tehpwnag3

05-16-19, 08:24

Whoa. Wait. What?

mark5pt56

05-16-19, 08:43

Dang, anyone want to buy some guns?:sarcastic:

RobertTheTexan

05-16-19, 08:59

Poverty gats are still poverty gats

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is the kind of thing a guy says who doesn't realize that expensive doesn't always equate to quality, nor do they understand "perceived quality" vs. "realized quality".

It's like the guy who lives in a foreign country and has never learned the language. He goes into a restaurant with a group of associates, and looking to impress certain members of their entourage, he orders the most expensive item on the menu, not realizing that he's ordered Balut with a side of Casu Marzu and washing it all down with an aged baby mice wine. He's the guy who assumes the most expensive is always the best. That doesn't hold true in most restaurants and it doesn't always hold true with AR's.

RobertTheTexan

05-16-19, 09:22

That it is nothing more then sone hobby grade stuff on par with PSA or DPMS but with much better marketing.

Step 1: Doc gets stick.

Step 2: Doc sharpens stick

Step 3: Dos pokes fanboys in eyeball with sharp stick.

https://i.postimg.cc/y8YdhfsC/Spitting-coffee.gif

docsherm

05-16-19, 09:27

Dang, anyone want to buy some guns?:sarcastic:

Sure.......wait....... What Brand????? .... :jester:

Eurodriver

05-16-19, 10:14

It only took 43 posts for us to eat our own in this very thread.
L

WickedWillis

05-16-19, 10:19

It only took 43 posts for us to eat our own in this very thread.
L

I feel everyone in here is having pretty lighthearted fun with all of this. I haven't seen any lit fuses. Yet.

mark5pt56

05-16-19, 10:21

Someone posted in here that folks take this stuff a wee bit personal. We have to be honest with ourselves in regards to actual use, experience and intended use, keeping in mind reality verses play time or fantasy. Wants, needs and desires, etc all play a part, provided we keep in mind the above.

It was also mentioned that survival mode comes into play in the business, same as any industry or work place.

Have fun!

Eazyeach

05-16-19, 10:23

Well I assure you my “hobby grade” BCM is good to go. I’ve fired tens of rounds through it with nary a hiccup.

tehpwnag3

05-16-19, 10:30

That was pretty good, man. My brain filled in THOUSANDS after 'tens' without it actually being there.

Well I assure you my “hobby grade” BCM is good to go. I’ve fired tens of rounds through it with nary a hiccup.

WickedWillis

05-16-19, 10:32

That it is nothing more then sone hobby grade stuff on par with PSA or DPMS but with much better marketing.

I don't want to derail this thread, but I would absolutely genuinely love to hear more about this. Maybe start a thread? If we can all keep it civil.

Well I assure you my “hobby grade” BCM is good to go. I’ve fired tens of rounds through it with nary a hiccup.

I have had good experiences as well, outside of the gen 3 pmag issue.

Eazyeach

05-16-19, 10:42

I don't want to derail this thread, but I would absolutely genuinely love to hear more about this. Maybe start a thread? If we can all keep it civil.

I have had good experiences as well, outside of the gen 3 pmag issue.
Simple solution: use 3 pro mags instead.

docsherm

05-16-19, 10:49

Simple solution: use 3 pro mags instead.

Might as well...... one works as well as the other.

SteveL

05-16-19, 11:00

That was pretty good, man. My brain filled in THOUSANDS after 'tens' without it actually being there.

So did mine. I didn't even catch it until I read your response.

tehpwnag3

05-16-19, 11:03

Jeez man, you are on fire!

Might as well...... one works as well as the other.

Firefly

05-16-19, 11:47

Yeah its like women with shoes and purses and all are still made in sweat shops

Eurodriver

05-16-19, 11:59

Might as well...... one works as well as the other.

My fuse is now lit.

You can shit on BCM. You can shit on the Marine Corps. You can shit on my chest if that’s what you’re into.

But the AR-platform Magpul PMAG is without a doubt the most overengineered AR15 magazine ever made.

Period.

Prove me wrong.

docsherm

05-16-19, 12:18

My fuse is now lit.

You can shit on BCM. You can shit on the Marine Corps. You can shit on my chest if that’s what you’re into.

But the AR-platform Magpul PMAG is without a doubt the most overengineered AR15 magazine ever made.

Period.

Prove me wrong.

Well whatever you do behind closed doors is your business....... and sounds gross. :bad:

As for the MagPul PMag...... I agree with you 100%. My point is that if the best mag ever designed doesn't work with your lower then your lower is NOT good. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that one out....... but it may actually take one to figure out what the design or manufacturing error is.

Eurodriver

05-16-19, 12:22

Well whatever you do behind closed doors is your business....... and sounds gross. :bad:

As for the MagPul PMag...... I agree with you 100%. My point is that if the best mag ever designed doesn't work with your lower then your lower is NOT good. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that one out....... but it may actually take one to figure out what the design or manufacturing error is.

I guess my BCM lowers are out of BCM spec because every BCM Lower ive ever owned or even used has worked with PMAGs.

Their QC really is terrible if they can’t even match their own specs! Hobby grade!

Firefly

05-16-19, 12:48

You either need HK lowers or Anderson lowers.

I am convinced everything inbetween is compromised and a lie.

Dead serious.

RobertTheTexan

05-16-19, 12:51

That was pretty good, man. My brain filled in THOUSANDS after 'tens' without it actually being there.

I know a Delton that has way more rounds through it than your hobby BCM, at least 50. Gotta hit the range a few more times to beat that.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

RobertTheTexan

05-16-19, 13:00

My fuse is now lit.

You can shit on BCM. You can shit on the Marine Corps. You can shit on my chest if that’s what you’re into.

But the AR-platform Magpul PMAG is without a doubt the most overengineered AR15 magazine ever made.

Period.

Prove me wrong.
I have a a lot of PMags, both in
AR-15 and SR-25. However when I find them on sale, I will buy Lancer mags over PMags in a NY second. I think the metal lips are a solid design improvement. Besides who doesn’t like metal lips? I do. I love ‘em.

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ozarkpugs

05-16-19, 13:08

I know people who swear by Buick but don't want a cheap Chevrolet Ford is good Mercury sucks . Others will tell you you should get a Dodge because there 6 speed is a lot tougher than Chevrolet 6 speeds . Most parts interchange from B to -C & FTP M ( made in same plant) and I don't know about this year but for years the only difference between a Dodge and Chevy 6 speed is the parts # a lot of AR owners are of the same mentality . If it makes them feel superior that they paid. $ 2,000 for brand x so be it . As long as my ARP 6.8s and AR parts 223w s on Anderson uppers and lowers shoot 1/2-3/4 moa at 200 I'm happy with my elcheapo junk . Just imagine how small my groups would be if I had $2,000 optics instead of junk $200 optics .

Sent from my Moto E (4) using Tapatalk

jpmuscle

05-16-19, 13:28

This is the kind of thing a guy says who doesn't realize that expensive doesn't always equate to quality, nor do they understand "perceived quality" vs. "realized quality".

It's like the guy who lives in a foreign country and has never learned the language. He goes into a restaurant with a group of associates, and looking to impress certain members of their entourage, he orders the most expensive item on the menu, not realizing that he's ordered Balut with a side of Casu Marzu and washing it all down with an aged baby mice wine. He's the guy who assumes the most expensive is always the best. That doesn't hold true in most restaurants and it doesn't always hold true with AR's.

Simmer down proletariat

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

fingerguns

05-16-19, 14:43

Well I assure you my “hobby grade” BCM is good to go. I’ve fired tens of rounds through it with nary a hiccup.

This is the funniest Freudian slip I have seen in a ling time. Makes me wonder how much people actually do put real round counts through their junk, not saying you don't Easy. I have around 2,500 through my V7 and overgassed or not it hasn't had one failure at all. I wonder at what count can you consider a rifle truly reliable?

tehpwnag3

05-16-19, 14:50

It's a paradox.

I wonder at what count can you consider a rifle truly reliable?

kerplode

05-16-19, 14:55

I drive a computer for a living, and I ain't assaulting beaches on the weekend, so by definition, all my rifles are hobby rifles.

Also gun people are mostly a-holes...

1168

05-16-19, 15:00

This is the funniest Freudian slip I have seen in a ling time. Makes me wonder how much people actually do put real round counts through their junk, not saying you don't Easy. I have around 2,500 through my V7 and overgassed or not it hasn't had one failure at all. I wonder at what count can you consider a rifle truly reliable?

“ I’ve got over 300 rnds through my (garbage rifle), and its flawless” -TOS, TFB comments section, gun stores

Everytime I see or hear something like that, I get mad and strangle a mythical creature. Ever wonder why you’ve never seen a unicorn? Or why the Easter bunny hasn’t been coming around? Because people don’t actually shoot their rifles before proclaiming them to be “flawless”. And of course, they don’t get them dinged up and beat on, either. Flawless.

Eazyeach

05-16-19, 15:08

MountainRaven

05-16-19, 15:18

All ARs are hobby grade.

If you're serious about making through the mudpocalypse and following Waterworld in which you will have to be a combat diver able to fire your weapon under water in order to survive, you need an AK.

jpmuscle

05-16-19, 15:23

A Freudian slip it was not. I was working on my AR15 specific stand up routine.

Let’s not bring 7n6 into this if at all possible.

AKs are the Chernobyl of the firearms world

See what I did there [emoji854]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

RobertTheTexan

05-16-19, 15:24

“ I’ve got over 300 rnds through my (garbage rifle), and its flawless” -TOS, TFB comments section, gun stores

Everytime I see or hear something like that, I get mad and strangle a mythical creature. Ever wonder why you’ve never seen a unicorn? Or why the Easter bunny hasn’t been coming around? Because people don’t actually shoot their rifles before proclaiming them to be “flawless”. And of course, they don’t get them dinged up and beat on, either. Flawless.

So now I know why the Easter Bunny stopped showing up. You choked that bitch out after looking at a flawless AR on TOS. My AR’s aren’t flawless pretty much from the point I start building. But mostly my guns aren’t safely resting on a bench at a gun range. I’m out in a dirty n’ dusty cow pasture and from sweating all over them in the summer to rain and drizzle in the winter they are never pristine I don’t think. Then there’s the hitting the ground, hitting each other and falling over in a big pile o’ guns in the back of my truck, to just getting worn out from me using them like they should be used, it doesn’t take long to start getting dings n chips and worn paint. Sometimes it even gets shit on it. I think literally. To me what’s worse than a flawless rifle are the dudes that paint their rifles to look worn. Get out and shoot that bitch you perpetrator of the fraud!!! I don’t usually say it that nice though. That makes me want to choke out a Pokimon character or maybe a dwarf.

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RobertTheTexan

05-16-19, 15:27

RobertTheTexan

05-16-19, 15:29

A Freudian slip it was not. I was working on my AR15 specific stand up routine.

I thought you were gonna say, “no Freudian slip, I have literally shot 20 rounds through my BCM .” But it was still funny.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

RobertTheTexan

05-16-19, 15:46

Simmer down proletariat

Da, better to be a common man than a delets like your fancy gaf manufacturers making their blat money.

Не будь жо́пой!

:)
Sent from my AR-15 using magic Unicorn sprinkles

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

1168

05-16-19, 16:01

Ok RetroRevolver77

Nobody cares about AK’s.

Sent from a cave in Waziristan using Iridium

FIFY.

RobertTheTexan

05-16-19, 16:45

FIFY.

Thanks brother. But who’s Retrorevolver 77? Did 7n6 get a new secret-not- secret identity??

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1168

05-16-19, 16:55

Thanks brother. But who’s Retrorevolver 77? Did 7n6 get a new secret-not- secret identity??

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Username changed. Same user.

Firefly

05-16-19, 17:13

26 Inf

05-16-19, 17:19

Nobody cares about AK’s.

I can prove you are not a loyal American by that one statement.

It involves a Galil.

Firefly

05-16-19, 17:22

ALL I NEED IS MY SLUTTY COLT YO!

fingerguns

05-16-19, 17:27

Even though I spent over 8 of the worst years of my life Connecticut, I'd still take a Colt. Specially a slutty one. Sometimes daddy likes it dirty.

Firefly

05-16-19, 18:01

Bruuhh...I shot rancid Soviet made .223 through it that still had cyrillic on it that would choke out a BCM

twm134

05-16-19, 18:24

Great turn tis thread has taken. Very entertaining! :cool:

Every manufacturer f&*#s up. I don't really care as long as they fix it.

6720FOR LIFE

twm134

05-16-19, 18:25

Damn double post.

Five_Point_Five_Six

05-16-19, 18:33

All rifles are hobby rifles until you shoot some Methadone patient in the face who's wearing a 90's pullover Chicago Bulls Starter jacket while kicking in your back door.

Which brings up a question, where are these crackheads getting all these 25 year old Starter jackets? Did customs find a shipping container full of them and donate them to the mission someplace?

phixion

05-16-19, 19:07

kerplode

05-16-19, 19:08

Firefly

05-16-19, 19:14

They're stealing them from fat GenX-ers whose BCMs choked.

Quoted because this warmed my heart

jsbhike

05-16-19, 20:13

Small Arms Solutions just did a YouTube review of a PSA PA-15, and it seemed to be a GLOWING review from someone who was very critical of the Colt Expanse offering. What struck me was all the comments about "getting more for less", "why pay more for a name?", "just as good as...", etc. etc.

They just don't know the whole story.

https://youtu.be/FzkNjqlTeb4

At what point did he say "getting more for less" or "why pay more for a name?"?

I did catch "just as good as..." starting at 2:30 and that seems to be a very common review for Magpul MOE back up sights.

Around 8:30 he mentioned that over 1k rounds it was equivalent to any other m4 he had fired, no better, no worse.

fingerguns

05-16-19, 20:55

John Lovell recently did a video about a PSA as well. His take was the timing was a little off but settled down after a buffer swap. I'd rather put the same amount of money into ammo or something else like training or what not.

tehpwnag3

05-17-19, 08:05

I was referring to the viewer comments.

At what point did he say "getting more for less" or "why pay more for a name?"?

I did catch "just as good as..." starting at 2:30 and that seems to be a very common review for Magpul MOE back up sights.

Around 8:30 he mentioned that over 1k rounds it was equivalent to any other m4 he had fired, no better, no worse.

P2Vaircrewman

05-17-19, 09:31

A few weeks back I posted on this.

https://www.recovertactical.com/collections/magazine-clips/products/mc19-glock-19-magazine-clip-pre-order-shipping-end-of-june?variant=49805256391

The response was immediately negative but no one had any personal experience with it. The comments were it could screw up your reload, you will die, silly gismo, doesn't work with a grip plug and you are going to die if you don't use a grip plug.

Despite the negative response I bought one, for 10 bucks what the hell. I like it, I can clip it in a pocket or on a belt. I get a better grip on the mag than when pulling it from a pouch. It does not affect reloads , the mag drops free, and it's faster then digging for a mag in a pocket and less bulky than a mag in a pouch inside or outside the waist band. If you screw up a reload it's because you screwed up a reload, not because of the clip.

PS, I am not tier 1, high speed low drag, just a 75 year old guy trying to be prepared.

fingerguns

05-17-19, 10:46

PS, I am not tier 1, high speed low drag, just a 75 year old guy trying to be prepared.

Clearly that's the problem.

WickedWillis

05-17-19, 11:07

pointblank4445

05-17-19, 11:33

There is nothing at all wrong with you loving your purchase....

Or maybe there IS. Too much damn emotion and ego tied to (what should be objective) spending decisions.

26 Inf

05-17-19, 11:42

The thing with that is, there are better ways to accomplish the same thing. Including the neomags https://theneomag.com/ that seem to be designed to last. There is nothing at all wrong with you loving your purchase, I just feel that adding a snag tab on a magazine is not for me.

Don't really like the mag clip from recover, either. But for $39.99 versus $9.99 I can see the appeal.

Plus, I don't like the Neomag guy's facial hair or elbow tat (there is judgemental me, again).

Guess I'll die on the street, fumbling for the mag in my.......,,

WickedWillis

05-17-19, 12:21

Or maybe there IS. Too much damn emotion and ego tied to (what should be objective) spending decisions.

I didn't even think in that direction.

Don't really like the mag clip from recover, either. But for $39.99 versus $9.99 I can see the appeal.

Plus, I don't like the Neomag guy's facial hair or elbow tat (there is judgemental me, again).

Guess I'll die on the street, fumbling for the mag in my.......,,

Hey that's fair. I cannot find an IWB mag carrier that I don't hate.

1168

05-17-19, 12:37

I didn't even think in that direction.

Hey that's fair. I cannot find an IWB mag carrier that I don't hate.

I’m very happy with my Dara curved clip IWB mag carriers. Sometimes I wear them IWB, sometimes just inside the belt, but outside the waistband, depending on my clothing. I do wear a fairly heavy belt, not sure if that matters.

mark5pt56

05-17-19, 12:49

I’m very happy with my Dara curved clip IWB mag carriers. Sometimes I wear them IWB, sometimes just inside the belt, but outside the waistband, depending on my clothing. I do wear a fairly heavy belt, not sure if that matters.

I like the holster with reverse can't, may need to order it. Do you run that one? mid ride, 7.5 reverse.
https://www.daraholsters.com/aiwb-holster/

1168

05-17-19, 12:54

I like the holster with reverse can't, may need to order it. Do you run that one? mid ride, 7.5 reverse.
https://www.daraholsters.com/aiwb-holster/

I carry mid ride 7.5* forward cant. Strongside IWB G19 grip chop.

Doc Safari

05-17-19, 13:34

Bruuhh...I shot rancid Soviet made .223 through it that still had cyrillic on it that would choke out a BCM

I would like some more details on this. I tend to shoot only brass-cased quality ammo through an expensive AR, but I'd love some more info on reliability with crappy Commie ammo.

Doc Safari

05-17-19, 13:39

My fuse is now lit.

You can shit on BCM. You can shit on the Marine Corps. You can shit on my chest if that’s what you’re into.

But the AR-platform Magpul PMAG is without a doubt the most overrated AR15 magazine ever made.

Period.

Prove me wrong.

FIFY.

As far as BCM: I'm a fanboy, but I have to admit two things:

1. I do not like the fact that as more time goes by they deviate from the basics.
2. Every Colt I've shot side-by-side with a BCM has been slightly but noticeably more accurate than any BCM.

RobertTheTexan

05-17-19, 14:10

I can prove you are not a loyal American by that one statement.

It involves a Galil.

Mr. Smartypants,

Unless your name Jed or Matt Eckert, or maybe Robert, then you don’t need an AK. Nobody else needs an AK. They are un-American unless you steal one from a commie DRB you just blew upend use it to blast other commie DRB’s straight to hell.

And I have more loyalty in my pinkie fingernail than.... well I won’t name you specifically because that would be rude and the Big Man upstairs has been telling me to be less rude, especially to chuckleheads.

And my chair is always against the wall.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190517/7cfe76aed7fced921dc3b1ae93ac6e58.jpg

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Eurodriver

05-17-19, 14:31

FIFY.

That is simply not true.

Is the US Marine Corps using Lancers? No. Why not?

Why did the US Marine Corps (even prior to any M855A1 issues) trust the PMag over tried, true, and cheap USGI mags that were literally all over the place? In my armory we had almost a thousand brand new USGI mags and yet our battalion was still issued 7 for every single Marine prior to an Afghanistan deployment.

The Marine Corps places above all else the effectiveness of the rifleman. Why on earth would they choose to trust PMags? Surely not because they are overhyped on internet message boards. The testing that has gone into those magazines is pretty remarkable.

I am the furthest thing from a fan boy for any company. I don’t like quite a bit of what Magpul makes (sights, grips, etc) but anyone with an ounce of open mindedness and research should be running PMAGs exclusively.

Doc Safari

05-17-19, 14:33

That is simply not true.

Is the US Marine Corps using Lancers? No. Why not?

Why did the US Marine Corps (even prior to any M855A1 issues) trust the PMag over tried, true, and cheap USGI mags that were literally all over the place? In my armory we had almost a thousand brand new USGI mags and yet our battalion was still issued 7 for every single Marine prior to an Afghanistan deployment.

The Marine Corps places above all else the effectiveness of the rifleman. Why on earth would they choose to trust PMags? Surely not because they are overhyped on internet message boards. The testing that has gone into those magazines is pretty remarkable.

I am the furthest thing from a fan boy for any company. I don’t like quite a bit of what Magpul makes (sights, grips, etc) but anyone with an ounce of open mindedness and research should be running PMAGs exclusively.

I'm just messin' with ya, Dude. I personally don't like AR Pmags (Glock ones I love), but I guess they are GTG. :lol:

P2Vaircrewman

05-17-19, 14:36

It all goes back to orthodoxy and the resistance to change. The Army was resistant to semi auto rifles because of a perception of excessive ammo expenditure, when the Garand was accepted they limited it to 8 rounds for the same reason when a detachable mag version had already been developed, who knows how many lives were lost because of only 8 rounds instead of twenty. Resistance to the AR because it was cheap plastic and weak aluminum and didn't fire a full size round. Resistance to this day by some to polymer frame hand guns. The list is long. It doesn't matter if it works or not it's just not how it been done so it can't be better. Some thing aren't better and some are, you will never know which until you try them.

26 Inf

05-17-19, 15:54

Mr. Smartypants,

Unless your name Jed or Matt Eckert, or maybe Robert, then you don’t need an AK. Nobody else needs an AK. They are un-American unless you steal one from a commie DRB you just blew upend use it to blast other commie DRB’s straight to hell.

And I have more loyalty in my pinkie fingernail than.... well I won’t name you specifically because that would be rude and the Big Man upstairs has been telling me to be less rude, especially to chuckleheads.

And my chair is always against the wall.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190517/7cfe76aed7fced921dc3b1ae93ac6e58.jpg

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I come in from building my FIL a handicap ramp so he can move in with us (proving, once and for all my true love for my wife) and once again ima triggered.

It isn't that I'm overheated, it is only 82 degrees, but the humidity is about 70 percent, and I've been putting things together in my shop with the doors closed to keep my GSD's from sniffing my bc when I'm trying to screw things together.

So maybe I feel not included for that reason.

Or maybe it's because I had to look up 'my chair is always against the wall' and feel like an outcast because I'm not one of the cool cats who can remember movie lines at the drop of the hat.

Five_Point_Five_Six

05-17-19, 16:04

The Gunternet is a strange place, it always has been but it's only getting weirder and I don't see that stopping.

RHINOWSO

05-17-19, 16:16

Always amusing to watch the eternally triggered and rage quitters. :D :D

RHINOWSO

05-17-19, 16:17

Popcorn time... :D :D :D

57348

26 Inf

05-17-19, 20:02

Nah, neither one of us called the other a Sooner's fan.

RobertTheTexan

05-17-19, 20:42

I come in from building my FIL a handicap ramp so he can move in with us (proving, once and for all my true love for my wife) and once again ima triggered.

It isn't that I'm overheated, it is only 82 degrees, but the humidity is about 70 percent, and I've been putting things together in my shop with the doors closed to keep my GSD's from sniffing my bc when I'm trying to screw things together.

So maybe I feel not included for that reason.

Or maybe it's because I had to look up 'my chair is always against the wall' and feel like an outcast because I'm not one of the cool cats who can remember movie lines at the drop of the hat.

You're a good man. Anyone who would build his FIL a ramp that wasn't designed to drop him in a punji stick ladened hole in the ground, is a better man than I. As far as remembering the movie lines. It's only important when it's an important movie like Red Dawn. Sure that's an epic fail and all, but look on the bright side. Nobody is perfect and Bill Clinton probably doesn't know what that means either. As penance, you should watch RD with your FIL. And before he heads off to sleep, just say, "Dad (or FIL)....my chair is always against the wall." It'll be a moment cast in the QUIKRETE of eternity. Or he might forget by morning's light. Either way, it would be an effective deployment of that line, and from your memory, and thus a victory.

And I daresay, there's not a lot of things worse than a GSD sniffin' yer bc. Just be thankful you don't have RWD's otherwise your bc might have been a LAS.

RobertTheTexan

05-17-19, 20:49

Popcorn time... :D :D :D

57348

No one wants to trigger me. Well at least not 3 hours from now after I watch JW Chapter Tres and via the osmosis of overpriced movie theater popcorn and Twizzlers, absorb all of the juicy TaranTacticalSkill displayed throughout the movie. After which I fully expect to make 200m hits with my RMR'd Glock 19 four inches from my face.

#badassthrumovieosmosis

:neo::neo::dirol::jester::jester:

Firefly

05-18-19, 06:28

I would like some more details on this. I tend to shoot only brass-cased quality ammo through an expensive AR, but I'd love some more info on reliability with crappy Commie ammo.

It’s simple
>have 6920
>have enhanced bolt
>buy a case or two of TulAmmo
>shoot piss out of it
>gun doesn’t yeet itself because it isnt a BCM
>pour soapy water down barrel because lol carcinogenic corrosive ammo made by drunken 60 yo babushkas with no teeth

Firefly

05-18-19, 06:29

Popcorn time... :D :D :D

57348

I don’t like you but I like that macro because yeah

1168

05-18-19, 06:44

It’s simple
>have 6920
>have enhanced bolt
>buy a case or two of TulAmmo
>shoot piss out of it
>gun doesn’t yeet itself because it isnt a BCM
>pour soapy water down barrel because lol carcinogenic corrosive ammo made by drunken 60 yo babushkas with no teeth

>clean BCG in kitchen sink with dishes
>CLP slutty gun
>load mags

26 Inf

05-18-19, 07:18

You're a good man. Anyone who would build his FIL a ramp that wasn't designed to drop him in a punji stick ladened hole in the ground, is a better man than I. As far as remembering the movie lines. It's only important when it's an important movie like Red Dawn. Sure that's an epic fail and all, but look on the bright side. Nobody is perfect and Bill Clinton probably doesn't know what that means either. As penance, you should watch RD with your FIL. And before he heads off to sleep, just say, "Dad (or FIL)....my chair is always against the wall." It'll be a moment cast in the QUIKRETE of eternity. Or he might forget by morning's light. Either way, it would be an effective deployment of that line, and from your memory, and thus a victory.

And I daresay, there's not a lot of things worse than a GSD sniffin' yer bc. Just be thankful you don't have RWD's otherwise your bc might have been a LAS.

Eloquent.

Arik

05-18-19, 07:30

I would like some more details on this. I tend to shoot only brass-cased quality ammo through an expensive AR, but I'd love some more info on reliability with crappy Commie ammo.Shoots fine

P2Vaircrewman

05-18-19, 10:03

I would like some more details on this. I tend to shoot only brass-cased quality ammo through an expensive AR, but I'd love some more info on reliability with crappy Commie ammo.

Cheap steel case is all that has ever been through my Colt LE6940. I had one stuck case, dirty chamber after about 1500 rounds. I stockpile the brass case stuff.

26 Inf

05-18-19, 12:45

No one wants to trigger me. Well at least not 3 hours from now after I watch JW Chapter Tres and via the osmosis of overpriced movie theater popcorn and Twizzlers, absorb all of the juicy TaranTacticalSkill displayed throughout the movie. After which I fully expect to make 200m hits with my RMR'd Glock 19 four inches from my face.

Okay, I just checked GD expecting to find a review from M4C's resident critic. Whats the verdict??

fingerguns

05-18-19, 13:09

Well all of this was certainly more than I expected. I am starting to see the answer to my query.

Eazyeach

05-18-19, 13:13

Well all of this was certainly more than I expected. I am starting to see the answer to my query.
Oh, I just assumed you asked the question as a round about way to tell everyone you had a DDM4V7!

fingerguns

05-18-19, 13:57

Touché.

RHINOWSO

05-18-19, 21:24

Why do we eat our own? Maybe we like the taste?

https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2F3oEjI3yap3qCOKtZMQ%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1

Firefly

05-18-19, 23:06

Rhino you irk me but your maymay game is strong in this thread

rpoL98

05-19-19, 00:04

Well all of this was certainly more than I expected. I am starting to see the answer to my query.

indeed, there certainly is a lot of "sturm und drang" in the first few pages, gun owners hating on fellow gun owners, direct, indirect, and inferred. seems to have simmered down a bit.

Hammered_Pair

05-19-19, 07:59

Ihave seen this on the interwebz for the last 20 years, lot's of it is dick measuring contests. Some is well placed though.
My personal theory is do your homework, buy it, test it, then either use it or start over.

TOS makes me twitch and experience temporary retardation reading that site, if they haven't personally shot the hell out of a peice of gear,, or put their ass on the line then I tend to view the opinion as suspect.

RobertTheTexan

05-19-19, 10:21

Okay, I just checked GD expecting to find a review from M4C's resident critic. Whats the verdict??

I didn’t get any popcorn. Only Twizzlers.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

RHINOWSO

05-19-19, 14:54

https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2F25.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_m8itt6y5WY1qbh0eio1_500.gif&f=1

Straight Shooter

05-19-19, 16:27

Okay, I just checked GD expecting to find a review from M4C's resident critic. Whats the verdict??

Im betting its NOWHERE near as good as JW1..and far off from JW2. NOT a Halle Berry fan AT ALL.

Firefly

05-19-19, 17:05

bullying is necessary in the world of the AR

Natural Selection

RobertTheTexan

05-19-19, 17:10

Okay, I just checked GD expecting to find a review from M4C's resident critic. Whats the verdict??

It was a really good movie. I’d say better than JW Ch. 2. Imo. You get to see some handy gunwork by people other than John Wick. You also see some pretty decent cowboy action by none other than Baba Yaga himself. (I think). I thoroughly enjoyed the movie - particularly because I watched 1&2 the days leading up to Friday so it really was almost a seamless 6 hours of WICKedness. Pun totally intended.

It was so good in fact that I’m seriously hoping for a Chapter 4 when I consider that they (IMO) actually outdid themselves on 3 compared to 2. Chapter 1 is a perennial winner and will be hard to surpass.

So in spite of not getting any overpriced movie theater popcorn, I thoroughly enjoyed it and more importantly, the bar I set for every single movie/show I watch..... I was entertained.

RobertTheTexan

05-19-19, 17:12

Okay, I just checked GD expecting to find a review from M4C's resident critic. Whats the verdict??

Oh you must have been referring to Mr. Coffee himself - Will Brink. My bad.

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26 Inf

05-19-19, 23:00

I didn’t get any popcorn. Only Twizzlers.

I've lost my current CEOI and can't decode. Is your chair still against the wall? Did you shave off your mustache?

ETA: follow-on received in the clear.

Firefly

05-19-19, 23:24

You got people who shoot and those who dont.

Do you want a Corvette in the garage that "holds its value" that you show company or do you want a Corvette with some tickets behind it, tires that needed replacing, reeking of girl sweat, cigarettes, and a well worn tape of 80s metal in the deck.

THERE IS NO INBETWEEN

Doc Safari

05-20-19, 06:43

Both is what I want. Pristine safe queens and war horses covered in enemy entrails.

twm134

05-20-19, 15:30

Hammered_Pair

05-20-19, 15:41

Danus ex

05-22-19, 08:51

I don't mind it when people buy guns and don't shoot. I don't mind it when people buy guns and shoot.

What I mind is when someone buys a gun, or anything, and then lies to me (and to themselves for that matter) about that something based on all their experience not using it.

For some reason this just irks the hell out of me.

Agreed. For the last 20 years, the firearms internet has conditioned me to always test things and trust only my own experience. Some examples of forum lies vs. reality:

Lie: AKs suck and you need the latest to shoot well.

Fact: Some of my best iron sight 200 m groups are from AKs. In 2009, my inexperienced, then 79 year old grandfather was making consistent (24/30) 600 yard hits on a steel torso with a Tantal I built, with irons, with 7N6, from prone, with the Tantal's shit bipod.

Lie: Swiss guns are the be-all, end-all.

Fact: They're nice but they're never perfect nor is their value commensurate with their prices. They're just guns, guys.

Lie: The M14 is finicky, unreliable garbage and we should've adopted the FAL.

Fact: Springfield Armory Inc. M1As and USGI parts guns are not equivalent even though everyone generalizes from their SAI experience. My basic, all-USGI (LRB rec) M14s have been perfect over thousands of milsurp rounds and dozens of disassemblies. They are, after the AR, the easiest centerfire guns for normal people to shoot well in my whole collection. They're also antique crap compared to an SR-25 or similar.

The FAL is the worst gun for Minnesota-based civilians. I wanted to love it so much, I bought 2 FNs and built 8 kit guns. In a military context with a controlled ammo supply, the adjustable gas system might make sense. Today, in a world with dozens of 7.62x51 options shooting in a state with a ~150°F temperature range, you spend way too much time adjusting gas for basic function and sights chasing today's POI. That's if you don't lose the gas tube pin. By the way, only some ammo is accurate in a given gun even though it's specced identically.

twm134

05-22-19, 09:50

Agreed. For the last 20 years, the firearms internet has conditioned me to always test things and trust only my own experience. Some examples of forum lies vs. reality:

Lie: AKs suck and you need the latest to shoot well.

Fact: Some of my best iron sight 200 m groups are from AKs. In 2009, my inexperienced, then 79 year old grandfather was making consistent (24/30) 600 yard hits on a steel torso with a Tantal I built, with irons, with 7N6, from prone, with the Tantal's shit bipod.

Lie: Swiss guns are the be-all, end-all.

Fact: They're nice but they're never perfect nor is their value commensurate with their prices. They're just guns, guys.

Lie: The M14 is finicky, unreliable garbage and we should've adopted the FAL.

Fact: Springfield Armory Inc. M1As and USGI parts guns are not equivalent even though everyone generalizes from their SAI experience. My basic, all-USGI (LRB rec) M14s have been perfect over thousands of milsurp rounds and dozens of disassemblies. They are, after the AR, the easiest centerfire guns for normal people to shoot well in my whole collection. They're also antique crap compared to an SR-25 or similar.

The FAL is the worst gun for Minnesota-based civilians. I wanted to love it so much, I bought 2 FNs and built 8 kit guns. In a military context with a controlled ammo supply, the adjustable gas system might make sense. Today, in a world with dozens of 7.62x51 options shooting in a state with a ~150°F temperature range, you spend way too much time adjusting gas for basic function and sights chasing today's POI. That's if you don't lose the gas tube pin. By the way, only some ammo is accurate in a given gun even though it's specced identically.

Opinions based on defined personal experiences are awesome. However, so many people cannot admit that they have very little or no experience at all with something and therefore have no valid opinion to offer on the matter.

twm134

05-22-19, 09:53

You find this on every gun board.

I find it more often at the range or in gun shops. But I don't hangout on very many forums and especially not on ones where people seem retarded, or worse, emotional.

RobertTheTexan

05-22-19, 19:33

I find it more often at the range or in gun shops. But I don't hangout on very many forums and especially not on ones where people seem retarded, or worse, emotional.

Thank God I don’t hang out at gun ranges or gun shops.

Unless staring at my online shopping cart for an hour wondering if I really do need that part for another build counts. Prolly not.

Speaking of emotion, are you missing the entertainment value of a gun forum? I have seen posts that have literally made me shoot coffee (or beer) out of my nose after reading some hilarious comments. Especially when they don’t know they are being hilarious. That’s even better.

My old man used to say, “glean what you can glean.” Meaning look for and pick up those things worth picking up and discard the rest. That’s so true of the Interweb in general and forums of any kind - be it a weapon or firearm based forum or not.

In short. Tons of people are full of shit and the Interweb is their septic tank of all their knowledge.

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SteveL

05-22-19, 20:08

Thank God I don’t hang out at gun ranges or gun shops.

Unless staring at my online shopping cart for an hour wondering if I really do need that part for another build counts. Prolly not.

Speaking of emotion, are you missing the entertainment value of a gun forum? I have seen posts that have literally made me shoot coffee (or beer) out of my nose after reading some hilarious comments. Especially when they don’t know they are being hilarious. That’s even better.

My old man used to say, “glean what you can glean.” Meaning look for and pick up those things worth picking up and discard the rest. That’s so true of the Interweb in general and forums of any kind - be it a weapon or firearm based forum or not.

In short. Tons of people are full of shit and the Interweb is their septic tank of all their knowledge.

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That is signature worthy.

twm134

05-22-19, 20:09

Entertaining for sure. I just have to deal with this same problem at work and its happening a lot lately so my tolerance is getting very low for stupidity or willful ignorance masquerading as knowledge.

I go to one gun range to shoot and about once every couple months there is someone who can't leave me alone and has to tell me how "This gun or that company makes junk" or "is just as good as." "This type of shooting is for fudds" or "That type rifle isn't needed or serves no purpose." Doesn't happen often, but right now my tolerance for bull$!#@ is low due to issues at work and having the same thing come up when I'm not at work minding my own business sucks. So many people that are never in doubt but frequently wrong. This happens in all areas not just firearms.

Also, if I stopped buying from every company that ever did something wrong I wouldn't be able to buy from anyone.

RobertTheTexan

05-23-19, 11:18

That is signature worthy.

Thanks Steve. I have my moments.

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26 Inf

05-23-19, 14:48

I go to one gun range to shoot and about once every couple months there is someone who can't leave me alone and has to tell me how "This gun or that company makes junk" or "is just as good as." "This type of shooting is for fudds" or "That type rifle isn't needed or serves no purpose."

This is why when I'm shooting if someone who I don't know shows up, I simply pack up and move to another range/bay. Generally, if you've got metal out everyone knows to let you have that bay (our club has three).