View Full Version : Schools add LGBTQ to sex ed: Inclusive or overstep?
This little essay popped up on my web browser. I think the intent is to foster thinking and discussion of the subject.
Here is the text of the piece, my comments, as if they are of any importance, follow:
What's happening: California school teachers who conduct sexual education classes are now encouraged to address gender identity and to offer advice for LGBTQ teenagers under new guidelines issued by the state's board of education.
The guidelines offer tips on discussing gender identity with children as young as kindergarten. It also includes advice for integrating "gender-neutral and LGBTQ-inclusive language," dicussing masturbation and promoting safe sex practices for both straight and LGBTQ students. The new format is not mandatory, but rather intended as a blueprint for schools that choose to use them.
Why there's debate: Advocates for LGBTQ issues have applauded the reforms for providing information to a population of students that is often overlooked in sex ed coursework.
Some parents have complained that the guidelines violate their rights to decide what their children learn about sexuality and when they learn it. Conservative groups have also argued that frank discussions about sex and gender have no place in the classroom.
What's next: California's new guidelines are part of a larger movement taking place in a number of states as policymakers reconsider the standards for teaching sex ed. Colorado's legislature recently passed a bill to mandate "comprehensive" sex ed and bar schools from teaching abstinience-only programs, which are the only type of sex ed programs allowed in several states.
Arizona and Utah recently repealed their so-called no promo homo laws, which banned schools from discussing LGBTQ issues during health courses. Similar laws remain on the books in six other states. Changes to sex ed are taking place in other countries as well. Courses in British schools will include LGBTQ material under new guidelines passed in February.
Perspectives
Excluding LGBTQ issues from sex ed is detrimental to student health
“Removing sexual orientation, biological sex and gender identity language from any framework or curriculum does not erase LGBTQ+ youth from existence. Instead it exacerbates their risk for negative health outcomes and other inequities.” — Kelli Bourne, EdSource
Parents are being left out of deciding what is taught to their kids
“The opinions of parents matter. Sex education is personal and sensitive, evoking diverse medical, moral and religious issues. Everyone has a different opinion about what should be taught to whom and when, and those opinions should be considered when school districts implement a sex education policy.” — Lori Kuykendall, Dallas News
“Parents — not school systems — should hold authority over what their children learn about sexuality and gender and when.” — Maria Keffler, Washington Post
Exclusion from sex ed can be dangerous for the mental health of LGBTQ students
“I knew I didn’t belong when the remainder of my sex education failed to mention LGBTQ people at all. I graduated high school feeling like a statistic — the kid who gets bullied for her sexual orientation, the one who feels suicidal thanks to everyday hatred.” — Erica Lenti, Globe and Mail
Sex ed has no place in schools
“The lessons stomp on childhood innocence, parental authority and teacher rights.” — Rebecca Friedrichs, Orange County Register
Inclusion in sex ed curricula helps LGBTQ students feel accepted
“If I had been given information about the kind of relationships I would later come to be in and given the space to think critically about my gender it would have made my road to self-acceptance a less bumpy one.” — Kennedy Walker, Guardian
A limited view of sexuality leaves kids unprepared
“Sex is like a Cheesecake Factory menu: There are endless options, some you might be interested in trying, some you’re not into and some you might try later. Framing sex as a single activity ― penis-in-vagina intercourse between two consenting heterosexual adults ― isn’t going to cut it anymore.” — Brittany Wong, HuffPost
Leaving sex ed to parents results in kids who are uniformed and unprepared
“Conservatives often frame sex ed as government overreach, arguing that lessons in sexuality and relationships are best provided by parents. But most parents can’t or don’t provide such guidance.” — Andrea Barrica, New York Times
My perspective: I think your attitude about this subject depends on how you view sexuality. Here is my take on sexuality:
1) Our species has only two sexes - male and female; each person is supposed to be assigned one set of reproductive organs. Just like birth defects, occasionally their are mishaps in development and someone may have two sets of reproductive organs or may develop traits in appearance and physique that are more aligned with the opposite sex as their equipment.
Not to be dismissive or trite, but this comes under the heading of 'shit happens.' Folks with such problems should be accepted just as we accept those with any other developmental problem - cerebral palsy, etc. I'm not talking about labeling them as disabled, I'm talking about how we should treat/relate to them.
2) In terms of sexual orientation, it is supposed to be hardwired to your equipment. As noted above, sometimes things happen. Let's call folks like this 'wired gays.' My perspective is there is another type of gay - l call them 'psychological gays.' I think that these are folks who are lead to gayness by chemical imbalance, depression, or choice. Some folks think it is cool to be queer.
I have a gay sibling, you wouldn't know it to meet her. I know several other gay folks, some are friends, some are acquaintances, again, unless you really get into their lives, you wouldn't know just by meeting them, largely because they are NOT proclaiming their orientation to everyone they meet. To me this typifies the 'wired gay.' I believe most folks in the 'I'm queer and I'm here' crowd are 'psychological gays.'
As far as I'm concerned, bi-sexuality is a form of hedonistic, deviant behavior. I don't believe it should be accepted. Trans-gendered falls under the heading of either hardwired or psychological.
The bottom line is, being homosexual/transgender is okay, just as having cerebral palsy is okay. But it is not normal. It is an aberration.
Reportedly 4.5% of the population identifies as lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender. I'm not inclined to look deeply into the dats, so I'm not sure what percentages are L, G, B, T. Willing to bet that T is a small percentage.
Taking that into consideration, how much accommodation should we make? Are there enough transgenders running around to warrant separate transgendered bathrooms? Are there enough transgendered folks who actually want to pee in the restroom used by the sex they want to be that it is actually an issue worth attention? I don't think so. Side note - I didn't let my kids go alone into a multi-stall public restroom until they were 9 or 10ish.
So, do these numbers warrant the inclusion of LGBT sex habits in sex education? Nope. As far as I'm concerned sex education should end at how mommy and daddy made you, covered in a biology class.
The only conflict I have is that I had a couple friends in high school who were not aware of the little squirt before ejaculation and ended up getting married when their girlfriend turned up pregnant. That is some information that youngsters need to have at some point, and it is unlikely that mom or dad is going to pass that on.
Sex-Ed needs to be an opt-in class - the default is that your kid doesn't get it unless you want them to attend.
LGBT info does not need to be included.
How exactly is homosexuality "okay" and an aberration at the same time?
WickedWillis
05-14-19, 18:52
What two consenting adults decide to do in their bedrooms, who they choose to be, is only their business imo. Kids should be made aware of these people, and their sexuality, etc.
I do like the parent opt out option though. This is a touchy subject for many, so I will see how it plays out here.
To add, I also feel it is the parents responsibility to educate their children on all of these matters in general as a whole. It is not the schools, or bug government's job to do so.
If only the 2, or 3, or 4 consenting adults kept it to their bedroom. But alas they bring it all to the public forums, streets and the schools for 5 yrs olds to enjoy.
If only the 2, or 3, or 4 consenting adults kept it to their bedroom. But alas they bring it all to the public forums, streets and the schools for 5 yrs olds to enjoy.
Yea.. its to bad folks on both sides of the socio-moral-religious spectrum can’t keep things out of the public forums.
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Some folks seem to think in amoral ways. In their foolishness they equate sodomy between men with the loving sex of a married man and woman. Imagine that. What a world.
Forgot to add. As imperfect as the founders of the country were, they never, as far as I know, talked publicly about their sexual proclivities or thought that men could become women. They did speak some on religion though. My how the times have changed...I wonder if it's been for the better.
Some folks seem to think in amoral ways. In their foolishness they equate sodomy between men with the loving sex of a married man and woman. Imagine that. What a world.
Self proclaimed moral righteousness aside I fail to see how marital obligation is in anyway an accurate representation of love.
Chicks can dig chicks too just saying
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Well it's simple, marriage is a life long commitment that can and usually produces children to be loved. See even nature promotes the union of the man and woman. But we're not just animals to procreate with any and all humans...at minimum we're not emotionally built that way.
So should little 5 yr boys be told that its ok to engage in sodomy with men and that it's ok that they can be a little girl? Well I dont think so. People that do such things are wrong.
Yea.. its to bad folks on both sides of the socio-moral-religious spectrum can’t keep things out of the public forums.
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Not possible is it. I mean really people make moral judgements on this very forum about all kinds of things. For instance...dont you think the Dems are "wrong" about your ability to own an AR?
I will add that in your response to me you made an implied moral judgement about my explicit moral judgement...so do you think boys should be told sodomizing men is "good"?
Kids should be made aware of these people, and their sexuality, etc.
Ahhhh, no.
Children don't need to be thinking of sex at all.
FFS.
I miss the old days when the perverts and deviants stayed in the closet and kept to themselves. Unlike today where it is forced upon all, even children, to give approval as if their amoral actions are normal and must be accepted and taught.
WickedWillis
05-14-19, 21:12
Ahhhh, no.
Children don't need to be thinking of sex at all.
FFS.
I'm on the older end of the millennial spectrum. I grew up in a very Christian and conservative home. My mom really tried when I was younger to shelter me from things. I learned about sex and dirty things at a very young age because of other kids at school. Kids are learning about sex and sexuality way earlier than most people think.
Everything is oversexualized in the media and the world as a whole right now, and kids see and consume all of that. Passively, and actively. You can put your hands over your ears and scream out loud all you want, but it's happening.
Well, it's happening because people like those in Cal are busy making it happen. They are driven by the LBGT lie that children should be officialyl sexualized into perverted and mad behaviors.
Not possible is it. I mean really people make moral judgements on this very forum about all kinds of things. For instance...dont you think the Dems are "wrong" about your ability to own an AR?
I will add that in your response to me you made an implied moral judgement about my explicit moral judgement...so do you think boys should be told sodomizing men is "good"?
Considering my rights are clearly enumerated already that point is irrelevant
As to the second my comment was more in condemnation of what you’ve already held as justifiable behavior in the form of lawful rape within the confines of marriage
Beyond that the extent to which kids need to be taught anything is to respect the rights and wishes of others insofar as how they, as consenting persons of sound mind (and age), choose to pursue happiness in their respective lives.
The world would be a better a place if folks stopped sticking their hands and bibles into everyone’s business.
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Ahhhh, no.
Children don't need to be thinking of sex at all.
FFS.
Children should "sadly" be made aware that there are sexual predators out there and males tend to outnumber female sexual predators and males tend to prey on both genders.
Considering my rights are clearly enumerated already that point is irrelevant
As to the second my comment was more in condemnation of what you’ve already held as justifiable behavior in the form of lawful rape within the confines of marriage
Beyond that the extent to which kids need to be taught anything is to respect the rights and wishes of others insofar as how they, as consenting persons of sound mind (and age), choose to pursue happiness in their respective lives.
The world would be a better a place if folks stopped sticking their hands and bibles into everyone’s business.
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And there you go again. I've never justified marital rape...please by all means bring that thread up so we can examine it. If not then stop the mere abuse and slander.
And all the while you're condemning my bible based morality, I'll point out that your promotion of sodomy is completely arbitrary based solely on nothing other than personal preferences.
And from where did these rights come from? Pretty much the entire world throughout history thinks your enumerated rights are a fiction and the paper they're written on is worthless. So your right to an AR hinges on what Tom Jefferson, and John Adam's said 2 and a half centuries ago? How completely arbitrary.
quite simple once they scientifically prove/change that one can actually have babies or produce babies they are what they are born !!!
and that is what they teach male or female
the left are brain damaged to the point they want to say global warming is science when its not yet this alphabet freak stuff is not science but you identify ?
when I say yes I believe in science and there are only two sexes ! they go after you its not about science its about what you feel ?
they can't even agree on what they want to use to argue with you
if someone wanted to identify as being a dog would they promote that ? there is no difference once you start believing to be something you are not you are mentally wrong and need mental help !!!!
our society is hosed cause of idiocy like this
once two males or two females can actually have babies with no other outside help again ! they are what they are you can wish all you want does not make it real
sex ed class was never supposed to be about how to have gay sex and promote you should try it cause it will make you a better person
it was about reproduction and human physiology not about feelings and experimenting
I say lets have an experiment take all the gays as to what they are born male or female and put all of them by each sex they were born with onto a island and say once you start producing babies we will let you off the island ! I mean you want to say it worked with darwin !!! Science you believe in let's put it to practice !
The misuse of science has allowed them have their babies. Their stranglehold on education has allowed them to pollute 5 yr olds.
Soon, they'll join with more of their enemies to eradicate the ultimate enemy. The enemy THEY all hate. Just like Herodians and the Pharisees who hated each other, but they hated a carpenter even more. So they joined together for the cleansing. My enemies enemy is my friend.
How exactly is homosexuality "okay" and an aberration at the same time?
It is just as okay as any other deficiency or abnormality that people have. Aberration is defined as a deviation from the norm.
It is just as okay as any other deficiency or abnormality that people have. Aberration is defined as a deviation from the norm.
How clinical. It's just like a missing leg, or downs syndrome, or cancer.
The misuse of science has allowed them have their babies. Their stranglehold on education has allowed them to pollute 5 yr olds.
Soon, they'll join with more of their enemies to eradicate the ultimate enemy. The enemy THEY all hate. Just like Herodians and the Pharisees who hated each other, but they hated a carpenter even more. So they joined together for the cleansing. My enemies enemy is my friend. I wonder who on this board considers me their enemy?
I'm sorry I posted this, somehow I thought we'd have some discussion without a lot of drama. I should have known better.
I believe we can explore other perspectives through discussion, and through that discussion some might look at things that different perspective and alter their beliefs. This doesn't happen often, but it happens enough that I think it is worth a shot.
I'm not in favor of exploring aspects of abnormal sexuality in the public schools. While I believe it is okay to be gay, I don't believe it is normal.
Mods, could you please shut this down.
How clinical. It's just like a missing leg, or downs syndrome, or cancer.
Pretty much. And, their behavior is between them and God, so long as they don't hurt or force anyone.
Yeah by all means shut it down...I agree.
Pretty much. And, their behavior is between them and God, so long as they don't hurt or force anyone.
Are they hurting the children?
Pretty much. And, their behavior is between them and God, so long as they don't hurt or force anyone.
I'll tell you what. I'll completely bow out. I wont post anymore on this one so you can continue your drama less thread. This statement tells me everything I need to know about your position....bye.
Are they hurting the children?
What children? The children in the schools that teach the curriculum? Yes, I believe it has the potential to do so. Some poor kid in gym class notices that 'Jimmy' has a big schlong and is already growing hair. He thinks to himself 'I might be gay' because he noticed, then based on his teaching he decides that, yep, that is the way he is wired, and next thing you know.....
I'll tell you what. I'll completely bow out. I wont post anymore on this one so you can continue your drama less thread. This statement tells me everything I need to know about your position....bye.
Matthew 7 much?
Edit: Let me flesh that out a bit.
Matthew 7:1-2 Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
God judges perfectly. We judge through the filters of our experiences and biases. God doesn't.
I try to remind myself of this perspective in my interactions with the folks I meet, because I believe my greatest failing is being judgemental:
When a trout rising to a fly gets hooked and finds himself unable to swim about freely, he begins a fight which results in struggles and splashes and sometimes an escape.
In the same way, the human struggles with the hooks that catch him. Sometime he masters his difficulties; sometimes they are too much for him.
The struggles are all that the world sees, and it usually misunderstands them. It is hard for a free fish to understand what is happening to a hooked one. Karl A. Menninger, "The Human Mind"
Morality aside- Sex ed shouldn't be taught in schools, period. It should be taught at home by parents and in the way they choose to teach it, period.
On that note- get your kids out of public schools!
They are dumpster fires that are misshaping the minds of our youth and turning them into subservient dolts.
I've got zero issue with biology based sex education. I think kids should have a grasp on how human procreation happens, and the repercussions for not being careful. A solid discussion on sexually transmitted diseases and a basic review of contraception should be included. That's about it. My kids didn't need a class on human sexuality and I don't think that we need one in the future.
Pretty much. And, their behavior is between them and God, so long as they don't hurt or force anyone.
It is just as okay as any other deficiency or abnormality that people have. Aberration is defined as a deviation from the norm.
Matthew 7 much?
Edit: Let me flesh that out a bit.
Matthew 7:1-2 Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
God judges perfectly. We judge through the filters of our experiences and biases. God doesn't.
I try to remind myself of this perspective in my interactions with the folks I meet, because I believe my greatest failing is being judgemental:
When a trout rising to a fly gets hooked and finds himself unable to swim about freely, he begins a fight which results in struggles and splashes and sometimes an escape.
In the same way, the human struggles with the hooks that catch him. Sometime he masters his difficulties; sometimes they are too much for him.
The struggles are all that the world sees, and it usually misunderstands them. It is hard for a free fish to understand what is happening to a hooked one. Karl A. Menninger, "The Human Mind"
Ironic that you are quoting that and yet you seem to be the one with a plank in the eye
I am guessing you are not a Christian because of those other replies and that quote and how you think it is ? you truly do not understand
well its a bit like hearing a lefty on the news say we need to ban those automatic bullet clips cause they can just spray out cartridges and kill people then put up his photo of a shotgun and call it a M16
if you think you are then you are mislead greatly and need to really study learn scripture and realize those other things you said above
https://www.biblegateway.com/resources/commentaries/IVP-NT/Matt/Do-Not-Judge-Others
snip of it
Many people have ripped this passage out of context, however. Jesus warns us not to assume God's prerogative to condemn the guilty; he is not warning us not to discern truth from error (see 7:15-23). Further, Jesus does not oppose offering correction, but only offering correction in the wrong spirit (v. 5; compare 18:15-17; Gal 6:1-5).
I am trying to do what is said in Galatians 6:
Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently.
this is my gentle nudge to you :)
You know, I have a theory. Homosexuality is a luxury beset by an overabundant population
If I had the Infinity Gauntlet (and boy do I wish I did) and snapped my fingers and reduced the world’s population back to 3.5 billion....
Boys liking girls and vice versa would not even be a question.
Per sex ed, it’s straight forward. Like was said from a biological point of view...I have no issue. Politicizing or moralizing it....huge issue.
A lot of young people who are blossoming don’t need the artificial and social pressure to do something that can radically and emotionally alter their lives.
The facts are that the more sexual partners you have....the more it blunts you. You aren’t James Bond. You aren’t worldly and it’s not cool or sexy. The fantasy is better than the reality because when you finally meet someone you like and you tell them your tally...that may be a huge turn off to what could have been something real.
I was once told “I cannot surrender to a man who will give me away once he gets bored. If he takes me, he owns me and all the responsibilities as well”
Well it's simple, marriage is a life long commitment that can and usually produces children to be loved.
So because my wife and I don't have children our marriage is an aberration?
I read somewhere that being actually (as opposed to pshchologically, or, it's cool) homsexual is a wired in thing. It has been traced to a difference in the brain. This difference is caused by certain levels of stress on the mother during the first trimester, iirc. It does not always happen. Not everyone with this difference is homosexual, but every actual homosrxual did have it.
All this shows is that homosexuality is an aberration, and can be caused, and so therefore could be limited.
As to gender, there are two. Yes, occasionally, someone gets some of both, and sometimes one gender has characteristics of the other.
It should be noted that in the socialist/communist state, children of married couples are considered property of the state, as they were produced by licensed permission.
As for teaching the children, I think they should definitely be taught the basics of the human reproductive system, how it works.
Perhaps, a more "advanced" class, that went more into the basics of sex, the basic types, its risks, and what homosexuality is. This one requiring a sign off by parents.
Ideally, parents should be handling everything in the second class, and should be able to handle the first one. But, let's face it, how many parents are "too busy", or just too scared to handle it? This is not to mention that the children ARE going to learn about from TV, ads, the Internet, passing "info" back and forth.
Do you really want your kids to learn sex from Internet porn?
I'm sure my answer isn't perfect, but I doubt there is one. I'm not going into morality/religion.
Adrenaline_6
05-15-19, 11:48
As to gender, there are two. Yes, occasionally, someone gets some of both, and sometimes one gender has characteristics of the other.
Not an attack on you Gunfixr at all, just quoting you for reference. I don't get when people use this argument at all. Most people have 1 object. If by chance you have 2 different objects, it doesn't mean that you now have a 3rd object. You just have both objects.
Adrenaline_6
05-15-19, 11:50
So because my wife and I don't have children our marriage is an aberration?
I don't see how you made that connection with that quote.
Dr. Bullseye
05-15-19, 12:03
Why does anyone think we or our kids want to know more about homosexuals of any flavor?
Knowledge is power. It is a good thing to be aware of current issues.
My trust that teaching LBGWHATEVER in school will be abused enormously by the individual teachers leanings, be they right/left/center.
Perhaps I’m simply a jaded old dufus, but my experience with young folks these days has been that it’s a minor miracle if they can add/subtract without a device and are doing well to read.
Maybe “they” should can worrying about currently fashionable, earth shatteringly important social issues and get back to some basics.
I read somewhere that being actually (as opposed to pshchologically, or, it's cool) homsexual is a wired in thing. It has been traced to a difference in the brain. This difference is caused by certain levels of stress on the mother during the first trimester, iirc. It does not always happen. Not everyone with this difference is homosexual, but every actual homosrxual did have it.
I read somewhere that we are killing our planet and its going to be over really soon
I read somewhere that we need to ban all guns
I read somewhere that all conservatives are nazis
I read somewhere that Russia helped Trump win the election
there is NO proof of what you wrote none 0 nada zip but it is created by the left to try to make you accept it and sadly some buy into the nonsense
but they like to write stuff like that and hope it sticks and hope folks repeat it so it comes true and they can then normalize or have an excuse for things and blame it on something else etc...
I wonder when the LGBTQBTTFCK community is going to have their great Sunni/Shia divide over weather being gay is a choice or biological programing. Hope they spend the next several centuries blowing up each others pride parades and BBQs
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I wonder when the LGBTQBTTFCK community is going to have their great Sunni/Shia divide over weather being gay is a choice or biological programing. Hope they spend the next several centuries blowing up each others pride parades and BBQs
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Gentle sir.....are...are you implying that Bailey Jay is our one true tranny messiah and that we should sing disco poppy nasheeds exalting her feminine perfection while mortaring the infidels who followed the false teachings of Caitlyn Jenner and Chaz Bono and we should wear black ninja masks and chocolate chip DCUs?
Because if so then Yes, Yes I care about gay stuff now.
WickedWillis
05-15-19, 17:14
Gentle sir.....are...are you implying that Bailey Jay is our one true tranny messiah and that we should sing disco poppy nasheeds exalting her feminine perfection while mortaring the infidels who followed the false teachings of Caitlyn Jenner and Chaz Bono and we should wear black ninja masks and chocolate chip DCUs?
Because if so then Yes, Yes I care about gay stuff now.
Trap that most would fall for
Trap that most would fall for
It's not a trap if I know what I'm getting into...
WickedWillis
05-15-19, 17:58
It's not a trap if I know what I'm getting into...
Valid point.
Ironic that you are quoting that and yet you seem to be the one with a plank in the eye
I am guessing you are not a Christian because of those other replies and that quote and how you think it is ? you truly do not understand
well its a bit like hearing a lefty on the news say we need to ban those automatic bullet clips cause they can just spray out cartridges and kill people then put up his photo of a shotgun and call it a M16
if you think you are then you are mislead greatly and need to really study learn scripture and realize those other things you said above
https://www.biblegateway.com/resources/commentaries/IVP-NT/Matt/Do-Not-Judge-Others
snip of it
I am trying to do what is said in Galatians 6:
Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently.
this is my gentle nudge to you :)
Thanks I need all the nudges I can get.
Pretty much been trying my best since 1990, had it when I was a youth, mom thought I would be a pastor. Like so many boys, I fell away after I left home and didn't comeback until my 30's. Did a lot of damage to myself, my family and my reputation in those interim years.
I was describing how I feel we should relate to homosexuals. I don't recall anything thing that I said that could be construed as encouraging of recruiting folks to be homosexuals.
I feel you and Tom are taking sentences that standing alone can be interpreted as outside the contextual intent of my comments. Let me give you an example:
After David had finished talking with Saul, Jonathan became one in spirit with David, and he loved him as himself. 2 From that day Saul kept David with him and did not let him return home to his family. 3 And Jonathan made a covenant with David because he loved him as himself. 4 Jonathan took off the robe he was wearing and gave it to David, along with his tunic, and even his sword, his bow and his belt.
Sounds bad, doesn't it. Sounds even worse if you read 1 Samuel 17 (David and Goliath) and realize that Saul was talking to David shortly after he killed the Philistine, Goliath:
As Saul watched David going out to meet the Philistine, he said to Abner, commander of the army, “Abner, whose son is that young man?”
Abner replied, “As surely as you live, Your Majesty, I don’t know.”
56 The king said, “Find out whose son this young man is.”
57 As soon as David returned from killing the Philistine, Abner took him and brought him before Saul, with David still holding the Philistine’s head.
58 “Whose son are you, young man?” Saul asked him.
David said, “I am the son of your servant Jesse of Bethlehem.”
Pretty clear from that reading that 'dude, they are gay, Jonathan had a man crush on David because he was running around with Goliath's head, kind of like when the football star nails the head cheerleader after winning the championship.'
But it becomes clearer when you read a little further:
1 Samuel 18:16 But all Israel and Judah loved David, because he led them in their campaigns.
According to biblical scholars the exact same word for 'love' is used in both places. So apparently they (Jonathan and Israel) adored David because of his devotion to God, shown by his acts.
Understanding context, it is a wonderful thing.
As for Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently.
I don't think 'you suck, and you're going to hell' is quite what Paul was going for when he wrote his letter of instruction to the churches of Galatia.
If you want to bring someone out of sin, the best way to do it is with your arm around them, rather than holding them at arm's length.
I go to a Church that recognizes that homosexuality is a sin. There are a couple of folks there who are gay. They are in Church hearing God's word, their children are in our Sunday school classes. My hope is that God is working in their life, because ultimately God judges, not me or you.
WickedWillis
05-15-19, 18:20
Thanks I need all the nudges I can get.
Pretty much been trying my best since 1990, had it when I was a youth, mom thought I would be a pastor. Like so many boys, I fell away after I left home and didn't comeback until my 30's. Did a lot of damage to myself, my family and my reputation in those interim years.
I was describing how I feel we should relate to homosexuals. I don't recall anything thing that I said that could be construed as encouraging of recruiting folks to be homosexuals.
I feel you and Tom are taking sentences that standing alone can be interpreted as outside the contextual intent of my comments. Let me give you an example:
After David had finished talking with Saul, Jonathan became one in spirit with David, and he loved him as himself. 2 From that day Saul kept David with him and did not let him return home to his family. 3 And Jonathan made a covenant with David because he loved him as himself. 4 Jonathan took off the robe he was wearing and gave it to David, along with his tunic, and even his sword, his bow and his belt.
Sounds bad, doesn't it. Sounds even worse if you read 1 Samuel 17 (David and Goliath) and realize that Saul was talking to David shortly after he killed the Philistine, Goliath:
As Saul watched David going out to meet the Philistine, he said to Abner, commander of the army, “Abner, whose son is that young man?”
Abner replied, “As surely as you live, Your Majesty, I don’t know.”
56 The king said, “Find out whose son this young man is.”
57 As soon as David returned from killing the Philistine, Abner took him and brought him before Saul, with David still holding the Philistine’s head.
58 “Whose son are you, young man?” Saul asked him.
David said, “I am the son of your servant Jesse of Bethlehem.”
Pretty clear from that reading that 'dude, they are gay, Jonathan had a man crush on David because he was running around with Goliath's head, kind of like when the football star nails the head cheerleader after winning the championship.'
But it becomes clearer when you read a little further:
1 Samuel 18:16 But all Israel and Judah loved David, because he led them in their campaigns.
According to biblical scholars the exact same word for 'love' is used in both places. So apparently they (Jonathan and Israel) adored David because of his devotion to God, shown by his acts.
Understanding context, it is a wonderful thing.
As for Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently.
I don't think 'you suck, and you're going to hell' is quite what Paul was going for when he wrote his letter of instruction to the churches of Galatia.
If you want to bring someone out of sin, the best way to do it is with your arm around them, rather than holding them at arm's length.
I go to a Church that recognizes that homosexuality is a sin. There are a couple of folks there who are gay. They are in Church hearing God's word, their children are in our Sunday school classes. My hope is that God is working in their life, because ultimately God judges, not me or you.
Mic ****ing drop.
Also guys, as a person who considers himself an anti organized religion believer in Christ, don't judge someone because they sin differently than you.
OK, enough, since others are intent on continuing to speak about me when I said I would leave Tom drama not withstanding, there is much to say.
Number one...homosexuality isn't like some physical defect, like a missing leg. It's a severe corruption of the soul. We all have a severe corruption of the soul. But, and this is a big but, God changes people..He regenerates them. The leftists, teachers and homosexuals that foist this garbage on little kids REJECT out of hand God's commands, why because they hate Him. Oh you might see religionists say how they love whatever god they serve, but it's not the God of the bible. Promoting and teaching the rightness of homosexuality and transgenderism isn't even remotely biblical. You will know them by their fruit.
Number two...No where in this thread did I judge anyone's eternal destiny.
Numer three...EVERYONE makes judgements about all kinds of things...small and large. Christian's are actually commanded to make right judgements based on God's revealed will. This whole Matt 7 appeal is a red herring at best, at worst it's a way to blunt the truth that the homosexual powers that be want to get their hands on everyone's kids and poison their minds at minimum.
Number four...everyone including me is called to faith and REPENTENCE. That means TURNING away from your sin, and stop justifying mine , yours, and their sordid life.
Number five...the passages about David and Jonathan, in context, show brotherly love, not some filthy erotic love (lust) that so called "Gay" Christian's try and foist on the world. Their efforts are pathetic and WILL fail.
Number six...if a man is feeling the pull of God and the weight of his sin, including homosexuality, i would come along side of him and give him as much of the truth as he can handle and be his friend. People did it for me when i was utterly lost in gross sin. I just wouldnt go on long hunting trips alone with him for a while.
Trannies are the literal SFOD-DELTA of women.
Thanks I need all the nudges I can get.
Pretty much been trying my best since 1990, had it when I was a youth, mom thought I would be a pastor. Like so many boys, I fell away after I left home and didn't comeback until my 30's. Did a lot of damage to myself, my family and my reputation in those interim years.
I was describing how I feel we should relate to homosexuals. I don't recall anything thing that I said that could be construed as encouraging of recruiting folks to be homosexuals.
I feel you and Tom are taking sentences that standing alone can be interpreted as outside the contextual intent of my comments. Let me give you an example:
If you want to bring someone out of sin, the best way to do it is with your arm around them, rather than holding them at arm's length.
I go to a Church that recognizes that homosexuality is a sin. There are a couple of folks there who are gay. They are in Church hearing God's word, their children are in our Sunday school classes. My hope is that God is working in their life, because ultimately God judges, not me or you.
good to hear :)
just to address the why I reasoned with what I did
when you said its between them and God or the well It is just as okay as any other deficiency or abnormality that people have.
reckon that is the issue of what you said I had a YIKES moment :)
so many today are not Christian claim to be especially in the charismatic movement that is so popular so maybe read it wrong then :) sadly God will say I never knew you to those ! what better way for the Devil to trick so many in believing they are saved when they think they are saved and are not because they think or use feelings etc.. especially being Ok with what some think is a modern problem :) when its all laid out in scripture :)
I try only use scripture on what when I have questions and not ever use my feelings or uman personal interpretations cause again it's all laid out for us in scripture but like most all of us its tough to not get personal or really take the time to break it all down :)
"I was describing how I feel we should relate to homosexuals." again go to scripture as much as I can leave my thinking feelings out of it :)
Genesis brings up the gay sin with the two angels that were sent the crowd wanted to get into Lots house to rape the angels pretty bad even back then
this gay Sin/lifestyle as many other sins/lifestlyes etc.. have been around since the beginning why it was brought up so early to I reckon so its nothing new and we can see how God dealt with it !
The lack of tolerance in this thread is deafening.
I think folks should binge a few seasons of Star Trek to help themselves.
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So it was tolerance you were modeling when you falsely accused me of upholding marital rape?
Enjoy your Star Trek.
So it was tolerance you were modeling when you falsely accused me of upholding marital rape?
Enjoy your Star Trek.
It’s a pity I can only search back through a years worth of posts (I’ll have to check off of a Tapatalk) but yes in unadulterated terms you stated it was your wife’s marital obligation to do so
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Straight Shooter
05-15-19, 20:52
Thanks I need all the nudges I can get.
Pretty much been trying my best since 1990, had it when I was a youth, mom thought I would be a pastor. Like so many boys, I fell away after I left home and didn't comeback until my 30's. Did a lot of damage to myself, my family and my reputation in those interim years.
I was describing how I feel we should relate to homosexuals. I don't recall anything thing that I said that could be construed as encouraging of recruiting folks to be homosexuals.
I feel you and Tom are taking sentences that standing alone can be interpreted as outside the contextual intent of my comments. Let me give you an example:
After David had finished talking with Saul, Jonathan became one in spirit with David, and he loved him as himself. 2 From that day Saul kept David with him and did not let him return home to his family. 3 And Jonathan made a covenant with David because he loved him as himself. 4 Jonathan took off the robe he was wearing and gave it to David, along with his tunic, and even his sword, his bow and his belt.
Sounds bad, doesn't it. Sounds even worse if you read 1 Samuel 17 (David and Goliath) and realize that Saul was talking to David shortly after he killed the Philistine, Goliath:
As Saul watched David going out to meet the Philistine, he said to Abner, commander of the army, “Abner, whose son is that young man?”
Abner replied, “As surely as you live, Your Majesty, I don’t know.”
56 The king said, “Find out whose son this young man is.”
57 As soon as David returned from killing the Philistine, Abner took him and brought him before Saul, with David still holding the Philistine’s head.
58 “Whose son are you, young man?” Saul asked him.
David said, “I am the son of your servant Jesse of Bethlehem.”
Pretty clear from that reading that 'dude, they are gay, Jonathan had a man crush on David because he was running around with Goliath's head, kind of like when the football star nails the head cheerleader after winning the championship.'
But it becomes clearer when you read a little further:
1 Samuel 18:16 But all Israel and Judah loved David, because he led them in their campaigns.
According to biblical scholars the exact same word for 'love' is used in both places. So apparently they (Jonathan and Israel) adored David because of his devotion to God, shown by his acts.
Understanding context, it is a wonderful thing.
As for Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently.
I don't think 'you suck, and you're going to hell' is quite what Paul was going for when he wrote his letter of instruction to the churches of Galatia.
If you want to bring someone out of sin, the best way to do it is with your arm around them, rather than holding them at arm's length.
I go to a Church that recognizes that homosexuality is a sin. There are a couple of folks there who are gay. They are in Church hearing God's word, their children are in our Sunday school classes. My hope is that God is working in their life, because ultimately God judges, not me or you.
Nice post 26.
I see you in a different light now.
Star Trek is pretty gay, I agree, but let's keep it on topic, huh?
I honestly could not care less which adult someone chooses as a sexual/life partner. It is not for me to judge another.
But... homosexuality is not natural, we have sex to continue the existence of our species, to pass on our genes. Pretty much requires a man and woman, its not rocket science.
I don't agree with schools teaching kids that homosexuality is the norm and expected behavior. I simply think that Sex Ed should be based on biology and facts.
Andy
It’s a pity I can only search back through a years worth of posts (I’ll have to check off of a Tapatalk) but yes in unadulterated terms you stated it was your wife’s marital obligation to do so
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And I have the same obligation to her. Mutual obligation is not rape. But who knows what guys like you dream up. I'll be waiting.
And I have the same obligation to her. Mutual obligation is not rape. But who knows what guys like you dream up. I'll be waiting.
I wanna say something real and not a smartass comment so bad but I wont not for you, your feelings, nor this board but for me.
I sorta get what you are saying and what you mean and it just isnt coming out right but there is more to love than sex or physical affection.
I wanna say something real and not a smartass comment so bad but I wont not for you, your feelings, nor this board but for me.
I sorta get what you are saying and what you mean and it just isnt coming out right but there is more to love than sex or physical affection.
And that obligation is driven by our mutual love for one another. What the accuser doesn't want to do is even consider that whatever he thought I wrote it isn't what I wrote...not even given the benefit of the doubt. I love my wife and would never force her to have sex...but that doesn't matter.
Star Trek is pretty gay, I agree, but let's keep it on topic, huh?
I honestly could not care less which adult someone chooses as a sexual/life partner. It is not for me to judge another.
But... homosexuality is not natural, we have sex to continue the existence of our species, to pass on our genes. Pretty much requires a man and woman, its not rocket science.
I don't agree with schools teaching kids that homosexuality is the norm and expected behavior. I simply think that Sex Ed should be based on biology and facts.
Andy
Short and to the point instead of my 'Lord I was born a rambling man' trip around the issue.
Short and to the point instead of my 'Lord I was born a rambling man' trip around the issue.
I am utterly unqualified to address the issue from a religious standpoint, so it's pretty simple for me.
Andy
And some people ought to know that sinful thinking and behavior is never restricted and contained to the bedroom for instance. It oozes out like a plague touching others in big ways or small. So now homosexuality is after 5 yr olds. Sin is never satisfied. Militant homosexuals arent interested in keeping it in the bedroom, theyre interested in ramming it down our throats. Look what goes on in Europe and canada... you can be jailed for speaking against these people.
Christians should always be interested in the well being of others. The idea that it's irrelevant what go on in the bedroom is the world's thinking, because again, it never just stays in the bedroom.
I sorta get what you are saying and what you mean and it just isnt coming out right but there is more to love than sex or physical affection.
If you want to see true love, visit a nursing home. You will see spouses reading, talking, singing, holding hands with their wife or husband who may not remember who they are or that they were there today or yesterday.
We are truly nothing without love. 1 Cor 13:1-13:
1 If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.
5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.
6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears.
11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me.
12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
I love you, bud but...
I can't get into this topic that heavy like that. I have seen it. But I dont want to talk about it.
If you want to see true love, visit a nursing home. You will see spouses reading, talking, singing, holding hands with their wife or husband who may not remember who they are or that they were there today or yesterday.
We are truly nothing without love. 1 Cor 13:1-13:
1 If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.
5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.
6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears.
11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me.
12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
All the more reason to reserve judgment of others and what consenting adults do in the name of Love.
But I suppose bibles won’t thump themselves (not directed at you)
Also nursing homes are brutally heartbreaking places
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Awsome... I quote no bible and am a thumper. Some quote a bunch of bible and their not a thumper.
Maybe the bible quoter will quote some bible on what true love actually is. Here's a hint...its not a warm fuzzy feeling.
By the way the ad hominem isn't much of an arguement.
Adrenaline_6
05-16-19, 09:51
All the more reason to reserve judgment of others and what consenting adults do in the name of Love.
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That statement doesn't stand up when fully dissected. Evil or sinful things can be done by consenting adults in the name of Love. They are not mutual.
No one should be judging. It would be like a family member who has a drug problem. You love them and support them, but you don't support their "problem". These two are also independent of one another. The problem with modern society and particularly homosexuality is most think they have to be mutual when they are not.
WickedWillis
05-16-19, 10:21
And that obligation is driven by our mutual love for one another. What the accuser doesn't want to do is even consider that whatever he thought I wrote it isn't what I wrote...not even given the benefit of the doubt. I love my wife and would never force her to have sex...but that doesn't matter.
"Obligation" does not equal consent. I do think you have the right heart, but like has been said, the wording is concerning right now.
"Obligation" does not equal consent. I do think you have the right heart, but like has been said, the wording is concerning right now.
When a person obligates him or herself in a marriage to fulfilled certain things, I think it's quite obvious that that person has consented to those things. I obligated myself to provide financial support to my wife...I consent to that for our whole lives.
Doc Safari
05-16-19, 11:23
Those of you who love quoting the Bible fail to read Leviticus 18: 22-29 where homosexuality is clearly forbidden:
22 “‘Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.
23 “‘Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion.
24 “‘Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. 25 Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants. 26 But you must keep my decrees and my laws. The native-born and the foreigners residing among you must not do any of these detestable things, 27 for all these things were done by the people who lived in the land before you, and the land became defiled. 28 And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you.
29 “‘Everyone who does any of these detestable things—such persons must be cut off from their people. 30 Keep my requirements and do not follow any of the detestable customs that were practiced before you came and do not defile yourselves with them. I am the Lord your God.’”
Personally, when it comes to people who have sex with the same sex: If they leave me alone I leave them alone.
The God of the Bible clearly does condemn the ACT, but in the age of Grace I believe the proper thing to do would be to try to bring such people to the knowledge of the Truth that God loves them and desires to save them, but does not condone their behavior.
Those of you who say the New Testament supercedes the Old should listen to the Words of Jesus when He says that He came to fulfill the law, and not do away with it.
Matthew 5:17-20 English Standard Version (ESV)
Christ Came to Fulfill the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Along with destroying the nuclear family and a whole bunch of other fun stuff, making homosexuality acceptable and "normal" is all part of the communist plan. They could not defeat us with bullets and bombs after two world war attempts, so they sat down and figured out how they could beat us. They wrote it all down and shared their long term plan with anyone who wanted to read it. Initially they were laughed at, but look at where we are today...
What two consenting adults do in private is none of my business. What I do in private is none of their business. When they start teaching it to my kid in school, then its my business. Teaching human biology is not an insult to or exclusion of someone who is attracted to their own sex. Who people are attracted to, or not attracted to, should not be part of the curriculum. Gay people should not be made to feel bad, but they also shouldn't be catered to.
I can remember being attracted to the opposite sex as early as 4 years old. I was born that way. Couldn't change it if I tried. I've known gay people that were the same way. They didn't ask for it. They don't want it. Its just how they were born, and how their brains are wired. I don't want these people to be discriminated against or treated unfairly in any way. I also don't want them to have special privileges or stupid F'ing parades about it either. I won't tell them what I do with my genitals, and I don't want them telling me what they do with theirs. Its nobody else's business, and it doesn't need to be taught in schools.
I'm left handed. Born that way. Only 9-10% of the population shares this aberration. Its my problem. The other 90-91% of the population shouldn't be made to give me special privilege because I use the wrong hand to write and shoot. I'm aware of the issues caused by my affliction and I adapt to the world around me without demanding to be catered to by everyone else. I wish some other members of our society would follow suit. No need to teach left handed school children about how to be left handed in a right handed world.
SomeOtherGuy
05-16-19, 15:06
I wish I was joking... I'm not. This is just sad. Tragically stupid.
When the man arrived at the hospital with severe abdominal pains, a nurse didn’t consider it an emergency, noting that he was obese and had stopped taking blood pressure medicines. In reality, he was pregnant — a transgender man in labor that was about to end in a stillbirth.
https://apnews.com/b5e7bb73c6134d58a0df9e1cee2fb8ad
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/05/unborn-baby-dies-because-pregnant-transgender-mothers-medical-records-listed-her-as-male/
You can ignore reality all you want, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.
Medical records identified as male. WTF did people think would happen when they passed laws requiring everyone to play along with the he/she/we gender game?
Some fat dude walks in the emergency room, has medical records showing he is a dude, gets treated like the male he purports to be, yet the LMTBBQ folks are up in arms because no one in the hospital realized that the fat dude was actually a really ugly pregnant lady.
I think Idiocracy was an optimistic view of the future.
Sorry no sympathy here.
Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
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It's sad the baby died, but the woman was obviously jacked in the mind.
One writer said...if they can get you to believe that man is a women, they can get you to believe anything. I think there's considerable truth to that statement.
Darwin wins again.
Obviously the unborn was not at fault, but I'm gonna wager this is a best case scenario. Nobody should have to have a completely insane person for a mother/father/whateverthehellyoucallit.
SomeOtherGuy
05-16-19, 16:35
One writer said...if they can get you to believe that man is a women, they can get you to believe anything. I think there's considerable truth to that statement.
Note the gem from the article "In reality, he was pregnant"...
Just remember, the emperor's new clothes are incredibly fine, and we have always been at war with Eastasia...
Note the gem from the article "In reality, he was pregnant"...
Just remember, the emperor's new clothes are incredibly fine, and we have always been at war with Eastasia...
"In reality"...anything but.
Darwin wins again.
Obviously the unborn was not at fault, but I'm gonna wager this is a best case scenario. Nobody should have to have a completely insane person for a mother/father/whateverthehellyoucallit.
I would have wished for life, then adoption . So many people looking to adopt. But it happen the way it happen.
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