View Full Version : 6.5 Creedmoor pet loads?
Eurodriver
05-22-19, 12:56
I got very lucky with the Onyx/Kansaswoodsguy/markm .223 load that I use on my PRS Gas gun. I didn’t have to do load development at all and my SDs with 10 rounds are always <5 using cheap Lake City brass.
I now have a 26” 6.5CM and was hoping to get equally lucky. I bought 500 140gr ELDM bullets and have an 8lb jug of H4350. It looks like I need to get Lapua brass and some CCI450s (which I use for my 223 load anyway)
Is doing a ladder the only proven way to do this? I can shoot paper with a chrono at 300y. Should I keep the suppressor on when I chrono?
It looks like 41.5-42.5 is where most people get their nodes with this combo but was hoping for a really proven performer.
Coal Dragger
05-22-19, 13:02
My experience loading for bolt action rifles leads me to advise you to perform a ladder test. If you can get throat measurements so you can determine a place to start seating depth that can also help.
Otherwise you’re on the right track, I’ve found it easier to develop consistent loads in bolt guns and expect you will not find it terribly difficult either.
If you plan to shoot suppressed in competition then I suggest you do load development with the suppressor attached.
I got very lucky with the Onyx/Kansaswoodsguy/markm .223 load that I use on my PRS Gas gun. I didn’t have to do load development at all and my SDs with 10 rounds are always <5 using cheap Lake City brass.
I now have a 26” 6.5CM and was hoping to get equally lucky. I bought 500 140gr ELDM bullets and have an 8lb jug of H4350. It looks like I need to get Lapua brass and some CCI450s (which I use for my 223 load anyway)
Is doing a ladder the only proven way to do this? I can shoot paper with a chrono at 300y. Should I keep the suppressor on when I chrono?
It looks like 41.5-42.5 is where most people get their nodes with this combo but was hoping for a really proven performer.
If you intend to shoot it suppressed, yes it should be on there.
You should work up your own load. The easiest way to find a node is purely velocity. Once your velocity nodes are discovered you can tweak it with seating depth and work between the nodes.
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I can't remember our load off the top of my head. I know we're running pretty hot (as usual) using that ADG? brass.
But honestly we haven't had any load, factory or handload, that has impressed at 1300 yards. The low bc bullet S&B factory load shoots good some days. But we often end up saying "screw this", quit playing grab ass and fire up the 300 Win Mag.
I have been enjoying 147gr ELDM's in Alpha SRP brass using 40.2gr of H4350 and CCI41 primers (just because I have a lot of these inventory).
It is a moderate load at around 2650 fps in my 26" x-bolt.
Premium brass is the key foundation for good performance in 6.5cm in my experience. Hornady factory brass wasn't cutting it for me.
140 ELD-M's with Hornady brass, 41.8 gr. RL16, Fed 210M gives me 2720 FPS from a 26" Bolt Gun. Low extreme spreads.
One positive on the RL16 is temperature insensitivity. Chrono diff at 23 degrees and 85 degrees was virtually same.
Got into this when 4350 was non-existent and SRP brass unobtainable.
I think this round may be one of the easiest loads to develop. I have yet to buy any ammo that didn't shoot MOA. You can buy :
S&B , $11.00 for 20 rounds and it shoots MOA
Hornnady Am Gunner, shoots MOA
Marks loads shoots holes in holes.
You will enjoy your 6.5 because it shoots flat and accurate, at least I would guess so. It doesn't give you the big audible off steel, but it does get there.
Try some ADG brass, very nice stuff and beefier than Lapua but not as much as RWS. But weighs very consistent.
Yes, chrono with suppressor, shoot with suppressor, eat dinner with suppressor.........
PB
FWIW the charge range you mention is where you will, or at least should find your node. I would caution that I have run into pressure signs with Starline brass at the lower end of your suggested range. In Hornady brass I shoot 41.6 of H4350 from my 24" Wiseman barreled R700. No problem with 140 ELD-M's breaking the .5 MOA mark.
You know that each barrel is a law unto itself, so verify pressure safe with a few lower than hoped from loads and then let the games begin.
Good luck and enjoy the Creedmoor.
Eurodriver
05-23-19, 10:08
Thanks for the advice guys. I just ordered Lapua brass.
My plan to start with is as follows:
Lapua brass
CCI450
40.0-44.0 of H4350 in 0.2g increments
140gr ELDM
Full length size in RCBS with no expander ball
Sinclair carbide expander mandrel (I aim for 0.002” tension)
RCBS seater die with no crimp. For now I’ll just go with a popular mag length load as I don’t have a way to measure off the lands.
I think that’s a good mix of not driving myself crazy and bankrupt but not wasting potential either. I did that with my .223 and get stupid low SDs. The only difference is I used an M die which they don’t appear to make for 6.5CM.
ETA: I will develop a node using the Magnetospeed V3
Pic of the rifle
https://i.imgur.com/BQBsqYX.jpg
Don't forget to use a smaller diameter decapping pin with Lapua brass. Don't want to mess up your nice brass bending a decapping rod.
Another die to consider is a Forster BR seating die or Redding Competition seating die. The Redding may require a minor modification but it’s no problem to do. It does load straight bullets.
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I'm at 42.6 with Hornady brass and H4350, fed match primers and 2700 out of the 24" AT barrel. I still have quite a few 140 Amax and have no issues with them at 1k, would run a 195-200 for score. When I run out will go back to the Berger 140's if I stay in it.
Euro, don't get to hung up on dies and prep work. I get 1/2" or less with standard RCBS 2 die set, seat to 2.815+/- don't sort brass, etc. etc.
Do be critical with powder measuring though. While I don't have anything "high tech" I check the RCBS scale with an old school OHAUS one. Trickle and to the grain as it pops over to the desired weight.
Eurodriver
05-24-19, 09:27
I'm at 42.6 with Hornady brass and H4350, fed match primers and 2700 out of the 24" AT barrel. I still have quite a few 140 Amax and have no issues with them at 1k, would run a 195-200 for score. When I run out will go back to the Berger 140's if I stay in it.
Euro, don't get to hung up on dies and prep work. I get 1/2" or less with standard RCBS 2 die set, seat to 2.815+/- don't sort brass, etc. etc.
Do be critical with powder measuring though. While I don't have anything "high tech" I check the RCBS scale with an old school OHAUS one. Trickle and to the grain as it pops over to the desired weight.
Thanks for the info, that makes me feel a lot better. Like I said, I got pretty lucky using the .223 load everyone uses with no load development, RCBS dies, no brass sorting, etc. I’m a good handloader but have zero experience with development so wanted to get some info.
I too bought an RCBS 6.5 two die set. In keeping with my procedure for my .223 loads I removed the expander ball and bought a Sinclair Expander mandrel die for 6.5CM (I use an M die to expand my .223 but Lyman doesn’t make one for 6.5CM). Aside from that I’ll use the standard RCBS dies for FL resizing and seating.
I did get a super deal on an RCBS chargemaster from a buddy so I use that now for powder throws. It takes longer than using a simple manual powder measure but it’s quicker than weighing each charge by hand (what I was doing)
Think I might have polished the e ball on mine, don't remember. I know I did on the .308. You will like the 6.5, still have to read the wind though but it makes it easier to beat it.
Eurodriver
06-01-19, 17:53
https://i.imgur.com/bYWPZJo.jpg
Rifle:
Seekins Havak Bravo in 6.5CM (Had exactly 40 rounds of factory ammo through it prior to this)
AAC 762SD Suppressor
Optic:
NF ATACR 5-25 F1 Mil in Seekins 34mm Rings
Ammo:
Hornady 140gr ELD-M
H4350
Virgin Lapua Brass expanded with a Sinclair expander mandrel
CCI450
2.810" COAL
Chronograph:
Magnetospeed V3
Distance:
300 yards
I started by shooting 1 round each at 38.3gr, 39.0gr, and 39.8gr. 38.3 was below the target, so I adjusted up. 39.0 was a dud. The primer did not ignite*. (This actually happened again at 41.7gr and 42.3gr) and 39.8gr which was on target but low. I didn't adjust the elevation or windage for any group except the 5 at 41.7gr. on top of target 2.
*I have been reloading for years in .223 with these exact primers, so I am sure the primers are not at fault. My guess is that I might have used my RCBS Ram Priming tool adjusted incorrectly and crushed the primer. Thoughts?
After those sighters, I shot groups of 3. I did not shoot in a round robin style. Here is the data.
https://i.imgur.com/k9bcK7R.png
https://i.imgur.com/HvbnLqF.png
https://i.imgur.com/UJPM6md.png
Target 1. #4 corresponds with 40.6gr, #5 40.9gr, etc.
https://i.imgur.com/JcEpBz9.jpg
Target 2. Group 12 was 5 rounds of 41.7gr. Unfortunately, I had another misfire with this group, but it eventually fired on the second try (the other two did not) However, the velocity was about 25fps faster than other rounds in the group. My rifle was burning up and the line was about to go cold, so I rushed the group.)
https://i.imgur.com/zSMUMIR.jpg
Finally, I did not get any sticky bolt lift but what are your thoughts on the brass?
https://i.imgur.com/BkiEQCV.jpg
Thanks in advance for your help guys. I really like the 40.6 (Target #4) - 40.9 (Target #5) load from a SD and group size perspective, but it's about 50fps slower than I'd like. That corresponds to about 0.3 mil more drop at 800 yards based on my Calcs and of course more wind drift.
Between 41.4 and 41.7 gr looks like the node to work between. That’s a pretty descent start.
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Your 42.6 gr. load obviously shows minor ejector swipe and a touch of cratering in the FP indentation.
Other than that, the primers look OK. I've run hotter.
It's not necessary to run the 6.5 balls to the wall IME.
Oh, did you disassemble and inspect bolt/FP? The sporadic failure to fire, with primers of known quality would have me concerned.
You know with a certainty this will happen at the least opportune time.
Eurodriver
06-04-19, 19:32
I didn’t touch the bolt, and didn’t have any problems in factory ammo. I will disassemble and see what’s up.
I will try both 40.6-40.9 and 41.4-41.7.
I’m really liking that 1” group at 300 yards but maybe I can play with 41.5~ and get it smaller too.
Thats knocking down some serious groups. 1 Inch at 300 yards is very nice, especially considering wind which comes into play at 300.
PB
Eurodriver
06-09-19, 12:22
Thats knocking down some serious groups. 1 Inch at 300 yards is very nice, especially considering wind which comes into play at 300.
PB
Thanks. I shot it again today out to 300 and worked up another ladder. I began at 42.6 and worked my way down to 39.8. (I left 40.0 at home by mistake)
I also grouped 4 rounds at 300. 1.410" at 300y.
I found out my issue with the primers too. I am used to loading SRPs in a .223 case which does not seat the primer as deeply as it does in a Lapua case. I wasn't seating the primers in deep enough. I had no failures after making this change.
I will probably dial this back to 41.5gr to be in the middle of my node. What do you guys think?
https://i.imgur.com/26NgRAp.png
I’d agree with 41.5 gr.
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Very good report Euro.
I’d bet 41.5 will shoot at, or real close to your expectations.
We’ve seen the 6.5 CM has shown to be pretty non-temperamental with accuracy in a range of powder weights.
Interesting where you landed in velocity. Mark's load w/ 143's gave us 2746 fps. It appears you are landing right in that same area. We didn't do much load development either and came up with a nice load. We shot some ridiculous .25 to .35 groups yesterday with my Bergara-AAC 762-NF ATACR. We took pics but don't have that cool software that determines groups. What is that software?
Good luck dialing it in to Bugholes.
PB
Very good report Euro.
I’d bet 41.5 will shoot at, or real close to your expectations.
We’ve seen the 6.5 CM has shown to be pretty non-temperamental with accuracy in a range of powder weights.
G, What velocity are you getting?
PB
Eurodriver
06-14-19, 17:42
I went with 41.5gr. This was the result of 35 rounds trying to simulate real world conditions. Not waiting between shots, shooting a string of 10 in 3-4 mins then letting it cool for a half hour. Tried to simulate a PRS match. The ES of 41 concerns me, but the SD of 9.1 and high round count make me wonder if I should be bothered by it (plus, the first 3 rounds seem a little slower than the rest)
https://i.imgur.com/usfO8yg.png
600 yard group - 5.580". Was hoping to be around 3 or 4, but I'll let you guys chime in. I've gotten smaller groups with my .223 at this distance.
https://i.imgur.com/yZiQa8I.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/AQ6MxZT.jpg
Before the wind picked up at steel...
https://i.imgur.com/YDSTK7r.jpg
G, What velocity are you getting?
PB
Nothing extraordinary PB.
41.5 is 2720 out of 22” Tikka.
It is consistent and accurate though.
Eurodriver
06-27-19, 13:47
Switched it up to 41.5. Shoots lasers.
https://i.imgur.com/6doEmWo.jpg
Switched it up to 41.5. Shoots lasers.
https://i.imgur.com/6doEmWo.jpg
I thought it might from looking at your initial data. I’m at 41.5 gr in my 20” Tikka but with Burger Hybrids. I only get 2550 FPS w/o the can and 2580 FPS with. It shoots great, but 20” isn’t enough for the speed.
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Switched it up to 41.5. Shoots lasers.
Nice rig.
Nice rig.
I must agree, bad ass rig. Euro with all your Night shooting, do you like the red or green reticle. Do you hold over or dial up at night?
PB
I reload pistol and 223 on a Dillon 550. I'm getting into 6.5 and Dillon doesn't sell the dies, etc. What would you recommend to begin reloading in 6.5? The Dillon is the only equipment I have aside from case prep. Thanks
I reload pistol and 223 on a Dillon 550. I'm getting into 6.5 and Dillon doesn't sell the dies, etc. What would you recommend to begin reloading in 6.5? The Dillon is the only equipment I have aside from case prep. ThanksI have the RCBS 6.5CM full length die set and it has worked out just fine. I'm sure the equivalent hornady die set also works great. Some will recommend the full length bushing dies but the standard expander has not caused me any problems with run out.
I suppose these fit the Dillon 550? It looks like one die resizes and decaps and the other seats and crimps. Do you leave an empty station in the 4-station 550? I apologize for any dumb questions. Thanks
I reload pistol and 223 on a Dillon 550. I'm getting into 6.5 and Dillon doesn't sell the dies, etc. What would you recommend to begin reloading in 6.5? The Dillon is the only equipment I have aside from case prep. Thanks
I think I posted about it earlier but I highly recommend Redding S-type FL bushing dies if you want ultimate accuracy. If not, get the standard Redding FL. For seating, pick up a Forster BR seating die.
Dillon makes good pressed but their dies are mediocre at best.
Standard RCBS dies are on par with Dillon quality. Both companies don’t load nearly as straight ammo as Redding, Forster, etc.
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Also, don’t crimp your rifle ammo!
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I suppose these fit the Dillon 550? It looks like one die resizes and decaps and the other seats and crimps. Do you leave an empty station in the 4-station 550? I apologize for any dumb questions. ThanksWhat I would do is use the 550 similar to a single stage press for 6.5CM. Drop powder off press because you are likely to use powders that are less likely to play well with the dillon one and would want to individually measure them for best accuracy.
Kansaswoodguy
07-14-19, 14:29
I’m running 140gr ELD-M at 2.810” 40.2gr of H4350 with a crimp from a Lee FCD. I can see a difference on target crimp versus no-crimp. I normally throw powder with a Redding 3BR. This load gets me consistent 3/4moa five shot groups sometimes better. 26” Krieger AR-10
What I would do is use the 550 similar to a single stage press for 6.5CM. Drop powder off press because you are likely to use powders that are less likely to play well with the dillon one and would want to individually measure them for best accuracy.
Have you considered a powder die?
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Daniel44114
07-25-19, 14:21
140gn Berger Elite Hunters .040 off or VLD hunters .005 off in Lapua or Starline brass. 42gn of H4350 and CCI BR4 primers. Last Match the Elite Hunter shot a 5.3 and 5.7 1000yd group from a Savage LRP.
After the ladder test, etc. that was recommended. Hornady 140gr ELDM with 41.9gr of H4350 and CCI 400 SRP. The 5 shot group is .41 moa. I picked up a Magnetospeed. Shot 10 shot string today with avg. velocity of 2835, ES 34, and SD 10.3. I was a little surprised that the group POI was 1/4" higher than normal.
After the ladder test, etc. that was recommended. Hornady 140gr ELDM with 41.9gr of H4350 and CCI 400 SRP. The 5 shot group is .41 moa. I picked up a Magnetospeed. Shot 10 shot string today with avg. velocity of 2835, ES 34, and SD 10.3. I was a little surprised that the group POI was 1/4" higher than normal.
Why surprised ?
PB
I was surprised the POI shift was up instead of down.
I bumped up the 135 gr A TIP load a full grain AND subbed in Win LR primer which work great in our 300 WM load. I'm hoping we can finally see some hope of anything interesting from 6.5 GrabAss.
I finally got a load to shoot a no B.S. sub MOA group this Sunday. Loaded up 100 rounds of 140 grain ELD (I guess) Hornady bullets using the load that was in the Chargemaster. 42.5 gr h4350, 210m primer, ADG brass. Didn't really do anything new or different other than a new propane torch for annealing.
Fired one fouler/sighter at 500 yards on the steel, then shot a nice half MOA 5 round group out of the Bergara Chasis bolt gun. After that, the gun shot 5 for 5 on the 1300 yard large gong and put down an MOAish group on that steel. Wind was very mild which helped a lot.
It was nice to finally get a good group, and good long range results too.
I followed up and went 7/8 at 1,300 yards. Needless to say, wind was fairly consistent. No idea why the load starting grouping real nice, maybe the second round of loads after stretching the brass a bit, as the first set was virgin brass. Regardless, I'll take it.
PB
You guys and your fancy 6.5’s. Nice work gents.
Helped a buddy make his long shot at 1255 yesterday. And I think it convinced him he definitely needs a can after remarking about the light recoil out of my 7mm RM.
You guys and your fancy 6.5’s. Nice work gents.
Helped a buddy make his long shot at 1255 yesterday. And I think it convinced him he definitely needs a can after remarking about the light recoil out of my 7mm RM.
I thought that steel on range 9 was 1254, not 1255 :-)
I thought that steel on range 9 was 1254, not 1255 :-)
Totally jack your DOPE up.
PB
Totally jack your DOPE up.
PB
Yes my point exactly :-)
I thought that steel on range 9 was 1254, not 1255 :-)
Blame it on my janky Sig Kilo :)
Totally jack your DOPE up.
PB
With my p*ss poor Strelok inputs, I need no help with that! Had a .6 mil error the other week due to a few mistakes I made. Garbage in and all that.
turnburglar
09-11-20, 17:12
With my p*ss poor Strelok inputs, I need no help with that! Had a .6 mil error the other week due to a few mistakes I made. Garbage in and all that.
I literally just realized my scope height was set at 1.5" and not 2.5".
Jacked my shit up.
I literally just realized my scope height was set at 1.5" and not 2.5".
Jacked my shit up.
Yup. Mine was off as well. It will mess with your output.
turnburglar
09-14-20, 13:20
So I noticed everyones favorite powder is H4350, but I was at my local bass pro and they had a few pounds of IMR 4350 so I picked up a couple. I have hundreds of rounds of Seller & Bellot brass and maybe a hundred of Hornady. No primers or bullets, and I don't even have a press but two of my friends do so I am hoping they will help out. If I can find any 123's or 140's can y'all recommend some starting charges for IMR 4350?
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