View Full Version : Range report: Hodge barrel with LMT Enhanced BCG *UPDATE page 7*
I did not end up playing with different buffer weights. Used a stock carbine spring with an H2 buffer. Hodge 14.5" mid-length gas with a purported 0.74"-0.75" port size (made a little tighter for use with M855A1). Brand new LMT Enhanced BCG. I was wondering if, given the "tighter" Hodge gas port, and using an LMT EBCG, there would be function/cycling issues.
Fired 40 rounds of M855A1, 20 rounds of Mk318, and 20 rounds of IMI Razor 77gr 5.56.
My concerns were first and foremost function, i.e would it cycle properly, and secondarily lock-back on an empty mag. I fired essentially 3 rounds at a time so had 13 chances for lock-back on the M855A1, and 6 chances each with the Mk318 and IMI Razor.
M855A1: failed to lock-back twice out of 13 chances.
Mk318: failed to lock-back 3 out of 6 times. [Evidently the "weakest" of the three rounds, yet it shot higher.....see below]
IMI 77gr Razor: locked back 6 out of 6 times. [Statistically "stronger" recoil impulse than the M855A1, also surprising]
There ZERO failures to cycle of any kind (FTF, FTE, etc.). All 80 rounds shot and cycled fine.
I zeroed irons and EOTech with the M855A1 using a 50yd IBSZ (POA/POI at 50yds). The Mk318 shot a c-hair high at 50 (surprising), while the IMI 77gr Razor was an exact match for the M855A1 zero at that range.
This was a pretty warm day but I was in the shade with a slight breeze blowing. Would it function as well in a much colder environment? I have my doubts, but next winter I'll give it a whirl and if I do run into issues I'll try dropping buffer weight at that time.
Interesting experiment. Would you mind running it again with a regular BCG?
That IMI stuff must be hot as $h1+.
So, are you satisfied and if not, what is your next step? I like 1168's suggestion.
PB
jackblack73
05-25-19, 13:09
I thought "weaker" rounds were supposed to shoot higher. Based on what I've read, because it takes fractionally longer for the round to leave the muzzle, the barrel will be pointed fractionally higher due to muzzle rise.
pointblank4445
05-25-19, 13:15
I've got 3 of these barrels
2x will feed everything and lock back when using a standard BCG, A5H2 buffer and Springco Green using - 77gr BH reman 223, 77gr BH red box 5.56, 62gr TSX BH, MEN 56gr, Win 62gr OTM
Just finished the last one and went standard Carbine buffer system for a change. H with Blue Springco and it wouldn't cycle the Win OTM on its intial outting. Looks like that will receive the A5 treatment as well.
ETA: Just found out the "milspec" buffer tube from may (partially) be to blame; it's about 1/8-3/16" too shallow and does not appear to allow the bolt the same complete rearward travel as a BCM A5, Vltor A5, or any of the other milspec carbine receiver extensions I have.
ETA 5/26/19: 50% failure to pick up next round with A5H2. Runs like a champ with intended "H" and milspec carbine spring in DD lower. Fed Swiss 223, Win OTM, German MEN and Black Hills. Passed limp-wrist pistol test and spat out brass at 3:30 6 feet out. Must've had the original, smaller gas port spec (Roy @ WeapOutfitters had talked about differences in gas port spec).
I've got 3 of these barrels
2x will feed everything and lock back when using a standard BCG, A5H2 buffer and Springco Green using - 77gr BH reman 223, 77gr BH red box 5.56, 62gr TSX BH, MEN 56gr, Win 62gr OTM
Just finished the last one and went standard Carbine buffer system for a change. H with Blue Springco and it wouldn't cycle the Win OTM on its intial outting. Looks like that will receive the A5 treatment as well.
Copy that, A5 may be the perfect remedy.
PB
My question... Where are you finding M855A1? Only thing I am seeing is fairly small quantities at ridiculous prices.
Have you measured the ports on those barrels?
There may be two sizes.
Also, isn't the win OTM quite hot?
I've got 3 of these barrels
2x will feed everything and lock back when using a standard BCG, A5H2 buffer and Springco Green using - 77gr BH reman 223, 77gr BH red box 5.56, 62gr TSX BH, MEN 56gr, Win 62gr OTM
Just finished the last one and went standard Carbine buffer system for a change. H with Blue Springco and it wouldn't cycle the Win OTM on its intial outting. Looks like that will receive the A5 treatment as well.
pointblank4445
05-25-19, 14:04
Have you measured the ports on those barrels?
There may be two sizes.
Also, isn't the win OTM quite hot?
It's fairly warm...
Can't remember if I measured this last one or not. The other 2 were 0.74-0.75 and they both work decent 223 shooting like a pistol limp wrist style to see if they've got sufficient juice to cycle.
First thing that's going to happen is this upper is getting shot on an A5 outfitted lower before I start pulling parts and bring a milspec carbine spring as that how its supposed to go.
My question... Where are you finding M855A1? Only thing I am seeing is fairly small quantities at ridiculous prices.
I bought some at a gun show about a year ago and yes, it was ridiculous (like $2 per round).
So, are you satisfied and if not, what is your next step? I like 1168's suggestion.
I'm not unhappy. I fully expected there to be cycling issues but there weren't any. It shot pretty damn smooth with all the ammo (that is no doubt the LMT EBCG). The lock-back issue means the "oomph" is a tad lacking with this setup, which of course could manifest itself in a more pronounced fashion if filthy or very cold. Now to be fair, the EBCG was new and TIGHT; you couldn't flick your wrist and have the bolt pop forward, you have to pull it with your fingers. Perhaps as that wears in a little as well as everything else things will "loosen" a bit overall. At least I know the gun isn't beating itself to death!
As an aside, I don't care for the new, duller finish on the Enhanced bolt's latest generation. The older, more shiny ones I have clean up easier. Nitpicking I know, but just though I'd throw that out there.
Interesting experiment. Would you mind running it again with a regular BCG?
That IMI stuff must be hot as $h1+.
One of these days I'll run it with a regular BCG and H2 buffer and let you guys know.
Yes, the surprise of the day was the IMI Razor ammo. I've heard it's a tad on the spicy side but today proved it. I have shitload of it so that's a good thing. This Hodge/LMT EBCG setup may be the ticket to running that stuff.
I bought some at a gun show about a year ago and yes, it was ridiculous (like $2 per round).
That's what I am seeing or better. Some guy on Gunbroker asking $150 for 30 rounds in a metal magazine. There ain't enough magic in that bullet for me to spend that on something I will probably never shoot.
That's what I am seeing or better. Some guy on Gunbroker asking $150 for 30 rounds in a metal magazine. There ain't enough magic in that bullet for me to spend that on something I will probably never shoot.
Yeah that dude is smoking crack for sure.
I've seen 300rds for $600, and it was Winchester "NATO cross" 2017 stuff on stripper clips. I guess Winchester started loading some to keep up with demand to augment Lake City production. Yeah, $2 per round is steep but 2017 production is pretty recent so that's not too bad.
Quick question, was this the enhanced carrier and e-bolt? Or standard carrier and e-bolt? FA or SA carrier?
Just picked up a 12.5 Hodge barrel that is getting converted by Marvin Pitts for a LMT MRP chassis build. Was wondering whether to pick the standard FA carrier or enhanced with e-bolt. Will be used mostly suppressed but would expect it to be fully reliable without can.
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Quick question, was this the enhanced carrier and e-bolt? Or standard carrier and e-bolt? FA or SA carrier?
Just picked up a 12.5 Hodge barrel that is getting converted by Marvin Pitts for a LMT MRP chassis build. Was wondering whether to pick the standard FA carrier or enhanced with e-bolt. Will be used mostly suppressed but would expect it to be fully reliable without can.
Both the bolt and carrier are Enhanced.
I've heard that the LMT EBCG wasn't designed for less than 14.5" barrels; not saying it wouldn't work, just that it might not.
Given the port sizing of the Hodge barrels I had planned on regular carrier. Doesn't seem like it would benefit from the extra porting on the enhanced carrier. Also using A5 RE.
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Given the port sizing of the Hodge barrels I had planned on regular carrier. Doesn't seem like it would benefit from the extra porting on the enhanced carrier. Also using A5 RE.
Yeah the A5 certainly skews results from my findings today.
I thought "weaker" rounds were supposed to shoot higher. Based on what I've read, because it takes fractionally longer for the round to leave the muzzle, the barrel will be pointed fractionally higher due to muzzle rise.
The bullet has left the barrel long before any recoil. What you’ve read is incorrect.
The bullet has left the barrel long before any recoil. What you’ve read is incorrect.
This is true in m4, but he is correct in the heavy revolver world, except he got it backwards.
That's what I am seeing or better. Some guy on Gunbroker asking $150 for 30 rounds in a metal magazine. There ain't enough magic in that bullet for me to spend that on something I will probably never shoot.
That is completely insane for that ammo. You could buy BH premium shit for that price or less. How and why is anyone buying for those prices???
PB
That is completely insane for that ammo. You could buy BH premium shit for that price or less. How and why is anyone buying for those prices???
PB
Because they want exotic stuff. I tried it (at 50 cents a round) and it was meh.
Results seem predictable. Sounds like you're running on the ragged edge even with fairly hot ammo. Thanks for the data points though. [emoji106]
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The Hodge guns were meant for a milspec bcg, milspec spring, and a H2 buffer using m193, m855, m855a1, mk262, and browntip. Try that combo.
The Hodge guns were meant for a milspec bcg, milspec spring, and a H2 buffer using m193, m855, m855a1, mk262, and browntip. Try that combo.
Oh I knew that going into this, just wanted to try an EBCG and see how it went.
Results seem predictable. Sounds like you're running on the ragged edge even with fairly hot ammo. Thanks for the data points though. [emoji106]
Basically the overall "score": out of 25 total chances at lock-back on an empty mag there were 5 failures to do so. No failures of any other type. Significantly better results than I expected.
I have a Cryptic Coatings Mystic Black mil-spec BCG I will likely try next time. Other than the coating (which is superior to phosphate) it checks all the other boxes.....C158 bolt, 8620 carrier, tool steel extractor, HPT/MPI, yada yada.
Alternatively I have a new-in-wrap DD chromed BCG I bought directly from DD.
vicious_cb
05-26-19, 10:42
Basically the overall "score": out of 25 total chances at lock-back on an empty mag there were 5 failures to do so. No failures of any other type. Significantly better results than I expected.
I have a Cryptic Coatings Mystic Black mil-spec BCG I will likely try next time. Other than the coating (which is superior to phosphate) it checks all the other boxes.....C158 bolt, 8620 carrier, tool steel extractor, HPT/MPI, yada yada.
Alternatively I have a new-in-wrap DD chromed BCG I bought directly from DD.
You really need to understand how and why the Hodge small gas port is the way it is. That kind of porting was designed not just because of hotter ammo but as a system. It takes into account gas block seal, gas key to carrier seal, carrier friction ect to make the gun run reliably with smaller port. The moment you start monkeying around with different carriers you are throwing the system out of whack.
Basically the overall "score": out of 25 total chances at lock-back on an empty mag there were 5 failures to do so. No failures of any other type. Significantly better results than I expected.
5 of 25 is a 20% failure rate... under ideal conditions. I'm assuming some of the other standard symptoms of undergassing were present? Sluggish cycling, weak/forward ejection?
I'd be curious if a standard carrier "fixes" it.
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Eurodriver
05-26-19, 12:16
What is the deal with people’s desire to shoot M855A1?
You can get paid to do that in Afghanistan.
What is the deal with people’s desire to shoot M855A1?
You can get paid to do that in Afghanistan. Cute. I actually have a DD-214 in my closet somewhere, so there's that.
Why not? It adds another element to tinkering, which I find interesting. It's on my dime, not yours.
5 of 25 is a 20% failure rate... under ideal conditions. I'm assuming some of the other standard symptoms of undergassing were present? Sluggish cycling, weak/forward ejection?
I'd be curious if a standard carrier "fixes" it.
I have no doubt it will.
Yeah, a 20% failure-to-lock rate is indicative of under-powered cycling. I thought I'd have actual short-stroke malfunctions and was surprised I didn't to be quite frank. Ejection was consistently to my 4 or 5 o'clock. All the dings on the brass deflector were on the outer third of it, towards the end. No marks on it in closer to the receiver.
You really need to understand how and why the Hodge small gas port is the way it is. That kind of porting was designed not just because of hotter ammo but as a system. It takes into account gas block seal, gas key to carrier seal, carrier friction ect to make the gun run reliably with smaller port. The moment you start monkeying around with different carriers you are throwing the system out of whack.
About the only carrier that would affect cycling is the one I tried, or one with a similar function of delayed unlocking (like the Surefire OBC for example). If you are suggesting otherwise the fact that a standard bolt carrier is PVD/CVD coated or hard chrome, as opposed to phosphate, isn't going to make a hill of beans worth of a difference. As was stated by someone else, and acknowledged by me going into this, the Hodge was designed for a standard BCG (i.e. not an LMT EBCG) with an H2 buffer and standard carbine spring. I altered one part of the equation and got a 20% failure-to-lock rate. I have no doubt my Cryptic Coatings or DD chromed standard carriers will fix that issue.
I found it an interesting experiment which made it obvious that the Hodge equation is like it is for a reason, but I discovered a "middle ground" (certainly not optimal but not as bad as I thought it would be).
I'm hoping the use of a standard carrier will bring up the function of the Mk318 as I have 1K of them "on ice" for a rainy day.
MountainRaven
05-26-19, 15:14
If the type of finish on the bolt carrier is going to impact reliability noticeably, then the type and amount of lubrication used will make a noticeable difference. And I don't think that'd be the case.
Also:
Poster: experiments with barrel, BCG, ammunition combo
Other posters: slam OP for being an idiot, because who would shoot that ammo/use that barrel with that BCG/use that ammo with that barrel and that BCG?
Also other posters: wonder why industry professionals don't post regularly on forums any more
Where were you guys when IG was playing with LMT E-BCGs in 20-inch rifle-gas guns?
Why not? It adds another element to tinkering, which I find interesting. It's on my dime, not yours.
"Because an 6920 is all you ever need, until you need a custom NVD capable rifle, until you get pissed you spent all this money, then want to give them all away, then begin peacocking / virtue signaling."
Wash, rinse, repeat. It's funny to watch, actually.
"Because an 6920 is all you ever need, until you need a custom NVD capable rifle, until you get pissed you spent all this money, then want to give them all away, then begin peacocking / virtue signaling."
Wash, rinse, repeat. It's funny to watch, actually.
Yes. Let the hate and jealousy flow through you.
Wash, rinse, repeat. It’s funny to watch, actually.
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If the type of finish on the bolt carrier is going to impact reliability noticeably, then the type and amount of lubrication used will make a noticeable difference. And I don't think that'd be the case.
Also:
Poster: experiments with barrel, BCG, ammunition combo
Other posters: slam OP for being an idiot, because who would shoot that ammo/use that barrel with that BCG/use that ammo with that barrel and that BCG?
Also other posters: wonder why industry professionals don't post regularly on forums any more
Where were you guys when IG was playing with LMT E-BCGs in 20-inch rifle-gas guns?
I, for one, am interested in hearing from OP about more experimenting with this gun, since its obviously right on the edge of functioning, while using quality parts.
If the type of finish on the bolt carrier is going to impact reliability noticeably, then the type and amount of lubrication used will make a noticeable difference. And I don't think that'd be the case.
Also:
Poster: experiments with barrel, BCG, ammunition combo
Other posters: slam OP for being an idiot, because who would shoot that ammo/use that barrel with that BCG/use that ammo with that barrel and that BCG?
Also other posters: wonder why industry professionals don't post regularly on forums any more
Where were you guys when IG was playing with LMT E-BCGs in 20-inch rifle-gas guns?
Epic.
I, for one, am interested in hearing from OP about more experimenting with this gun, since its obviously right on the edge of functioning, while using quality parts.
I plan to run the same round count/type of ammo (40 of M855A1, 20 each of Mk318 and IMI Razor) either next weekend or the one after. I will post results in this thread. This time it will be either the Cryptic Coatings or DD chromed BCG, both of which are standard carriers. I want to see the overall failure-to-lock rate as well as by ammo type. Hopefully there won't be ANY!
pointblank4445
05-26-19, 19:18
Wow...this thread really went to hell.
Gun 3 now runs like a champ after replacing the Springco with a milspec carbine spring. Must've gone back to the smaller gas port spec of a few runs ago; tried it with the A5 setup that the others like and would only properly cycle half the time.
Wow...this thread really went to hell.
Gun 3 now runs like a champ after replacing the Springco with a milspec carbine spring. Must've gone back to the smaller gas port spec of a few runs ago; tried it with the A5 setup that the others like and would only properly cycle half the time.
So more than just lock-back failures? i.e. FTF, FTE, bolt-overs, etc.? Not in keeping with the A5 love! :rolleyes: Good to hear that as far as something that would, in addition to the BCG, inhibit the Hodge-based weapon from working properly.
I guess I could drop buffer weight incrementally to see if mine functions 100% for lock-back but the $$$ of testing these specific ammo types over and over gets costly (and I would want repeatability of factors for each buffer weight). The 80 rounds I fired yesterday was ~ $115. Think about identical testing with an H, then a standard buffer, finally giving up the ghost and testing/verifying a standard-type bolt carrier.
pointblank4445
05-26-19, 20:02
Short stroking and not picking up the next round. Probably would have to roll with an A5H0 or 1 to make it work. No point screwing with that now.
I was wondering when people were going to share their impressions with the Hodge barrels.
I don't have any experience with the 14.5" variety, but I've been playing around with one of the recent production 12.5" Hodge barrels.
12.5" Hodge Defense barrel
SLR Rifleworks GB7 gas block
Standard carbine buffer tube, and spring
H buffer
Daniel Defense BCG
I've been getting consistent ejection, and lock back with 223, and 556. Haven't done any accuracy testing, but I've definitely been enjoying using it.
I was wondering when people were going to share their impressions with the Hodge barrels.
I don't have any experience with the 14.5" variety, but I've been playing around with one of the recent production 12.5" Hodge barrels.
12.5" Hodge Defense barrel
SLR Rifleworks GB7 gas block
Standard carbine buffer tube, and spring
H buffer
Daniel Defense BCG
I've been getting consistent ejection, and lock back with 223, and 556. Haven't done any accuracy testing, but I've definitely been enjoying using it.
So I read the specs on the 12.5" Hodge barrel and it too is "optimized" to run with M855A1, so I'd guess it's port is tight compared to other 12.5" barrels, just like the 14.5" is. Surprised to see the .223 power stuff is functioning well.
Wonder how well it would run if you bumped up to an H2 buffer?
pointblank4445
05-27-19, 20:07
I've been getting consistent ejection, and lock back with 223, and 556. Haven't done any accuracy testing, but I've definitely been enjoying using it.
My first gun ran like a champ...so I made a twin for it. Both guns will hold several higher-end factory loadings to MOA or better and they are soft as butter. This third that has had teething problems as I deviated from the forumula of the first 2 appears to be of the same accuracy pedigree as the other 2. I've had some great FN barrels and some "meh" FN barrels and these are at the top.
RVTMaverick
05-28-19, 08:38
OP, FWIW: & FYI: I've enjoyed reading what you're doing.;)
He's reporting back to us here what he's testing, giving us his results, I think is cool and very nice. He's not showing he's pissed because it isn't Locking back on every empty mag., quit the opposite actually, again... Cool!
I enjoy Testing different combos of anything and everything in Life.... Weather tweaking Electronic Fuel Injection or Testing different Powders and loads... I enjoy doing seeing and feeling what doesn't work, or works alright or Great!... I am a natural born tinker LOL
OP, FWIW: & FYI: I've enjoyed reading what you're doing.;)
He's reporting back to us here what he's testing, giving us his results, I think is cool and very nice. He's not showing he's pissed because it isn't Locking back on every empty mag., quit the opposite actually, again... Cool!
I enjoy Testing different combos of anything and everything in Life.... Weather tweaking Electronic Fuel Injection or Testing different Powders and loads... I enjoy doing seeing and feeling what doesn't work, or works alright or Great!... I am a natural born tinker LOL
I get it. We're 20 years into the renaissance of the platform. "We" knew what would happen, no new soil is being tilled here. ABNAK is admittedly just tinkering around for his own amusement. I just selfishly want to buy the e-carrier off him when he's done playing with it for my wife's SOCOM barreled gun. :laugh:
RVTMaverick
05-28-19, 10:58
LOL... I wouldn't mind buying that off him myself, but You claimed;) it awhile back>... However, OP, IF Sry0fcr drops OUT... I'll buy it! :shout: LMAO
I get it. We're 20 years into the renaissance of the platform. "We" knew what would happen, no new soil is being tilled here. ABNAK is admittedly just tinkering around for his own amusement. I just selfishly want to buy the e-carrier off him when he's done playing with it for my wife's SOCOM barreled gun. :laugh:
So I read the specs on the 12.5" Hodge barrel and it too is "optimized" to run with M855A1, so I'd guess it's port is tight compared to other 12.5" barrels, just like the 14.5" is. Surprised to see the .223 power stuff is functioning well.
Wonder how well it would run if you bumped up to an H2 buffer?
I borrowed a friends Knight's Armament SBR buffer (4.7oz I think) which is similar, but not quite a H2.
I only loaded a few rounds in 2 magazines with M193. I got lock back.
I also tried a H3 buffer. Loaded a few rounds in 1 magazine with M193. It failed to lock back.
Not really extensive testing. The 223 I have been using is Fiocchi 223A, and Blackhills 223 55 softpoint re-manufactured. I'm assuming that it is on the warmer side of things compared to other brands. I think I am going to continue using the H buffer until I receive the tax stamp for my suppressor. Then I might revisit using a H2 buffer.
Eurodriver
05-28-19, 13:21
Same. No hate for ABNAK here. Go ahead and tinker.
But still...
“ >buys crazy expensive barrel
>buys crazy expensive BCG
>20% failure rate for bolt hold open
>MFW “
-One Smart Boi
Eurodriver
05-28-19, 13:23
Why not? It adds another element to tinkering, which I find interesting. It's on my dime, not yours.
I know. But you’re Army.
That doesn’t count.
Bet you can’t even tell me what crayon color tastes the best.
I know. But you’re Army.
That doesn’t count.
Bet you can’t even tell me what crayon color tastes the best.
Purple is the only acceptable answer.
I know. But you’re Army.
That doesn’t count.
Bet you can’t even tell me what crayon color tastes the best.
You have a much better choice of crayons in the modern era than I had "back in the day". If it isn't one of the basic colors I can't vouch for it.
The barrel I did buy fairly recently, that is true. And it WILL work once I'm done experimenting; next try will indeed be a standard BCG. The LMT EBCG I have had for a year or two, I didn't buy it for this weapon. I had it, it's rather pricey, so I thought WTH and gave it a whirl. Function was 100%, lock-back wasn't. Oh well. That is indicative to me that under less-than-ideal conditions lock-back might be the least of my worries.
Also, while I take it you're not poor, neither am I. That said, for repeatability of results (i.e. the same ammo each time) to drop to an H buffer, then a carbine buffer, then try an A5 with the several buffers it has, we're talking the high-side of $1K (not quite but almost). This is ammo that I already have, i.e. my "stash", so it would need to be replaced. Gotta keep minimal ammo stocks ya know.
I get it. We're 20 years into the renaissance of the platform. "We" knew what would happen, no new soil is being tilled here. ABNAK is admittedly just tinkering around for his own amusement. I just selfishly want to buy the e-carrier off him when he's done playing with it for my wife's SOCOM barreled gun. :laugh:
I was actually surprised it didn't short-stroke. I was surprised the few lock-back failures I had were all that occurred. The LMT EBCG/Hodge combo was more forgiving than I expected, though I cannot (and will not) discount the lock-back issues.
Within the next week or two I'll run the same round count through it with a standard BCG (i.e. not an LMT EBCG, might be Cryptic Coatings or DD chromed) and report back here.
If I was a bettin' man I'd wager that a drop to an H or definitely a standard buffer would solve the issue, even with the EBCG. However, those lock-back issues are lurking in the back of my head so f**k it the next time will be with a standard carrier.
I know. But you’re Army.
That doesn’t count.
Bet you can’t even tell me what crayon color tastes the best.
I bet you will say brown..... nobody want the brown crayon and that is what they give (special) Marines . ;)
vicious_cb
05-28-19, 21:06
Same. No hate for ABNAK here. Go ahead and tinker.
But still...
“ >buys crazy expensive barrel
>buys crazy expensive BCG
>20% failure rate for bolt hold open
>MFW “
-One Smart Boi
Pretty much, no hate. Its just we told him what would happen when he asked in a previous thread about this specific combo. And guess what? It happened, big surprise.
Pretty much, no hate. Its just we told him what would happen when he asked in a previous thread about this specific combo. And guess what? It happened, big surprise.
Well now, to be fair, most (myself included) expected more prominent failures, like short-stroking and the maladies associated with it. The fact that it functioned fine (fed/ejected) but with ~ 20% lock-back issues surprised me. Sure, I could play with dropping to an H or standard buffer and probably make it work, but I saw what I wanted to see and will now re-test with a standard carrier.
RVTMaverick
05-30-19, 07:44
Maybe before switching out your E-BCG, just try the Standard Buffer with ONLY the Rounds that didn't lock open.(-_^)
IF You sell your E-BCG... I've got 2nd Dibs IF Sry0fcr drops out!
Well now, to be fair, most (myself included) expected more prominent failures, like short-stroking and the maladies associated with it. The fact that it functioned fine (fed/ejected) but with ~ 20% lock-back issues surprised me. Sure, I could play with dropping to an H or standard buffer and probably make it work, but I saw what I wanted to see and will now re-test with a standard carrier.
jerrysimons
05-30-19, 16:22
Op, good report.
Dudes making reports like these have got to measure the Hodge gas-ports like the op did. They have changed a few times since the first barrels.
My only comment to add is Hodge barrels have always been intended to be run suppressed with m855a1. They are not “under gassed”.
LMT e carrier and VLTOR A5 are great kit. They can be run together with surprisingly small ports but the benefits of the combination are really found with can attached.
Op, good report.
Dudes making reports like these have got to measure the Hodge gas-ports like the op did. They have changed a few times since the first barrels.
My only comment to add is Hodge barrels have always been intended to be run suppressed with m855a1. They are not “under gassed”.
LMT e carrier and VLTOR A5 are great kit. They can be run together with surprisingly small ports but the benefits of the combination are really found with can attached.
Funny you mention that.....I was wondering (after this test) if the LMT EBCG was perhaps the A5 of the BCG world. It apparently can work with things thought otherwise. Sure, it may not have the latitude that the A5 has but I am impressed with the EBCG's ability to actually work when it wasn't supposed to. Dropping buffer weights *should* make it work even with lock-back, discounting the ultimate cold weather test of course.
I didn't actually measure the gas port, going off of data online (I bought it a month or two ago).
Haterz gunna hate. I am sticking an E-BCG in a 16" midlength just because I can. Experimentation is good.
If the type of finish on the bolt carrier is going to impact reliability noticeably, then the type and amount of lubrication used will make a noticeable difference. And I don't think that'd be the case.
Also:
Poster: experiments with barrel, BCG, ammunition combo
Other posters: slam OP for being an idiot, because who would shoot that ammo/use that barrel with that BCG/use that ammo with that barrel and that BCG?
Also other posters: wonder why industry professionals don't post regularly on forums any more
Where were you guys when IG was playing with LMT E-BCGs in 20-inch rifle-gas guns?
Haterz gunna hate. I am sticking an E-BCG in a 16" midlength just because I can. Experimentation is good.
It should work with that setup.
Without searching for and then reading the old thread, did it work in a 20" rifle-length system?
Yep. 100% flawless.
It should work with that setup.
Without searching for and then reading the old thread, did it work in a 20" rifle-length system?
Yep. 100% flawless.
Was that with Colt barrel, or a TDP sized port?
UPDATE......
Finally got around to the second part of this little test today. Shot the same round count as before: 40rds of M855A1, 20rds of Mk318, and 20rds of Mk262 (IMI 77gr Razor). Only this time I used a standard Cryptic Coatings Mystic Black BCG instead of the LMT EBCG I used in the first part of the test in May. Used the same standard spring and H2 buffer as the first time.
All 80 rounds fired perfectly; no FTE, FTF, or failures to lock back (which had been the only downside of my test with the LMT EBCG).
Yeah, some of you are going to go "Well of course it functions fine with a standard BCG, the Hodge barrel was designed to". Okay, point taken. I felt obliged to confirm everything with a standard BCG. The only shortcomings I encountered with the LMT EBCG was about a 20% failure to lock back on an empty mag......that went away today!
As an aside, I have played with different coatings and different finishes on BCG's or just the bolts themselves. I am OC about cleaning my weapons (I know most of you aren't) and like them spic-and-span. Today was the first time I used that Mystic Black BCG. I've had it for like two years but have never used it. All I can say is that it truly, really wipes clean! Even that bastion of filth, the bolt tail, wiped off with a cloth and a pass with the green nylon GI toothbrush. I couldn't believe it. Sure, I only shot 80 rounds but that same round count on the LMT EBCG took some scrubbing with a green scratchy pad and brass brush to get the bolt tail clean. Without a doubt the Cryptic Coatings stuff is expensive, like really expensive. That said, I definitely like it and will probably buy more in the future (one at a time!). I must also add that the bolt had a coat of Slip2000 EWL on it, so despite the claims of being able to run it without lube I don't do that. It may have helped make it easier to clean too.
thank you for the update! great info and test.
Thanks for the update and messing around with the system. Love the data!
Not a surprise about how easy it is to clean the Cryptic Coatings Mystic Black BCG. I have one, and it's so slippery that it wants to go flying out of your hands even when it's bone dry. I have just the one in Mystic Black, and I have 3 others in the standard phosphate finish. They make great BCGs, but I change out their extractor springs for the Colt copper color extractor springs with black bumper inserts.
Same. I’ve put a ton of rounds through the black mystic and it’s stupid and damn near magic how easy it is to clean up.
Not a surprise about how easy it is to clean the Cryptic Coatings Mystic Black BCG. I have one, and it's so slippery that it wants to go flying out of your hands even when it's bone dry. I have just the one in Mystic Black, and I have 3 others in the standard phosphate finish. They make great BCGs, but I change out their extractor springs for the Colt copper color extractor springs with black bumper inserts.
Anyone have a comparison of the Cryptic Coatings vs a Sionics NP3 BCG?
Anyone have a comparison of the Cryptic Coatings vs a Sionics NP3 BCG?
Finish/coatings wise CVD > NP3 all day long, but I like the Sionics bcg better than toolcraft.
I appreciate the follow through on the update.
Same. I’ve put a ton of rounds through the black mystic and it’s stupid and damn near magic how easy it is to clean up.
Didn't you "retire" yours after like 25K rounds or so?
Didn't you "retire" yours after like 25K rounds or so?
Yes I did. I can’t remember which thread I have the pictures on, but even at that high of a round count the wear is pretty minor.
MountainRaven
03-08-20, 00:30
So did you get the LMT E-BCG to work with the Hodge barrel?
And by any chance did you do testing on the Hodge 12.5?
So did you get the LMT E-BCG to work with the Hodge barrel?
If you read the first post you'll see the testing I did with the LMT E-BCG. Due to a 20% failure rate to lock back on an empty mag (but no other malfunctions with feeding/extracting) I decided that perhaps it wasn't the ideal setup.
Several months later I ran the exact same ammo count and type but with a Cryptic Coatings Mystic Black BCG (basically a standard BCG with an expensive coating) and all rounds locked back and no other malfunctions.
And by any chance did you do testing on the Hodge 12.5?
I do not have a 12.5" Hodge barrel, only the 14.5".
MountainRaven
03-08-20, 14:49
If you read the first post you'll see the testing I did with the LMT E-BCG. Due to a 20% failure rate to lock back on an empty mag (but no other malfunctions with feeding/extracting) I decided that perhaps it wasn't the ideal setup.
Several months later I ran the exact same ammo count and type but with a Cryptic Coatings Mystic Black BCG (basically a standard BCG with an expensive coating) and all rounds locked back and no other malfunctions.
I had read the latter post, but it appeared that you might have gotten the E-BCG to run in that post. It's also been a few months since your last update.
I had read the latter post, but it appeared that you might have gotten the E-BCG to run in that post. It's also been a few months since your last update.
Oh it ran alright, just didn't lock back on an empty mag all the time. Otherwise it was fine.
MountainRaven
04-20-20, 22:38
Recent production Hodge 12.5" barrel:
LMT E-BCG, H buffer, Geissele Super 42; Works fine with Federal XM855, Hornady/Frontier M193, Federal and Hornady Steel Match and Norma 55-gr 223. No joy with 75-gr Tula I bummed off a friend. Which is fine by me, because I don't use Russian ammo in anything that isn't a Russian design (except when I want to find out if it works in my guns, for funsies).
(I was not nearly as scientific as OP: I just ran five rounds with an empty mag for the XM855 from the shoulder and the Norma one-handed, pistol-style, as they were the most warmest and least warmest cartridges.)
vicious_cb
04-20-20, 22:57
Is this the suppressor optimized gas port or unsuppressed use version of the 12.5?
MountainRaven
04-20-20, 23:02
Is this the suppressor optimized gas port or unsuppressed use version of the 12.5?
I don't know that Hodge catalogs them as different versions... in so far as Hodge catalogs anything. Everyone who sells Hodge barrels lists them without any differentiation, AFAIK. But some of them do list that the most recent production 12.5" barrels have larger gas ports than previous production runs.
I think what vicious_cb is asking is if this barrel was purchased from Forward Controls Design, as they received a run of barrels that did not have the updated gas port diameter. Jim stated that he had a run of barrels that the gas port dimensions got missed on QC and that they would be available under the pretense that they did not have the correct gas port. These particular barrels will run with the LMT enhanced BCG, unlike the barrels with the correct dimensions. Hodge's standard barrels are spec'd to run with a nitride coated BCG and a standard carbine spring with an H or H2 buffer and they get real finicky when you tinker with buffer types (A5) and BCG's.
MountainRaven
04-21-20, 00:27
Barrel was purchased from Weapon Outfitters. FCD and OPTactical all have or have recently had the same barrels, with the same larger gas port. FCD doesn't list a separate "suppressor" barrel from Hodge.
ETA: Misread drtywk's post. FCD not listing a "suppressor" barrel from Hodge is irrelevant and, per drtywk's post they are listed as having a larger gas port.
However, none of Hodge's dealers list anything about the gas port sizing being a QC/QA slip-up and none are priced or listed as blems.
vicious_cb
04-21-20, 03:00
Barrel was purchased from Weapon Outfitters. FCD and OPTactical all have or have recently had the same barrels, with the same larger gas port. FCD doesn't list a separate "suppressor" barrel from Hodge.
ETA: Misread drtywk's post. FCD not listing a "suppressor" barrel from Hodge is irrelevant and, per drtywk's post they are listed as having a larger gas port.
However, none of Hodge's dealers list anything about the gas port sizing being a QC/QA slip-up and none are priced or listed as blems.
Did it say this in the product description? The suppressor optimized 12.5 and general purpose 12.5 barrels are listed as separate products.
https://i.imgur.com/AiI457o.jpg
MountainRaven
04-21-20, 17:37
Did it say this in the product description? The suppressor optimized 12.5 and general purpose 12.5 barrels are listed as separate products.
https://i.imgur.com/AiI457o.jpg
Yes, it did.
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