View Full Version : Instances of Social Justice you are actually supportive of..
I get that we are rugged, quasi AnCap Libertarian types but what are some examples where you just saw that societal intervention needed to happen, that the status quo was unjust, and the oppressed among us were simply not getting their due?
Like you just said "HELL NO!" and "We're Not Gonna Take It" started playing in the back of your mind.
I think for me it was when the cereal rabbit finally got some Trix. That was the OJ Trial for 80s kids. I personally mailed 20 proofs of purchase with a vote of YES.
It was a day when the sun shone a little brighter. When we had one less soul with a dream deferred.
Please share your stories.
This should be interesting since despite 2A loyalists being shaded as a freedom loving crowd time and time again some have shown themselves to be particularly intolerant of individual liberty they find objectionable.
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Brown v. Board of Education - gave light to the lie of 'separate but equal.'
Civil rights movement.
LBJ's Great Society, not so much.
Coming soon - women required to register for selective service.
Brown v. Board of Education - gave light to the lie of 'separate but equal.'
Civil rights movement.
LBJ's Great Society, not so much.
Coming soon - women required to register for selective service.
This is why I legit love you
Diamondback
05-26-19, 00:16
Just once I'd like to see the devoted, loyal, steadfast, always-there guy friend get out of the Friend Box Trap and get the girl. I will never understand why women insist on whining to such guys about "why can't I find a guy like you" when that which they seek is right under their noses...
Social justice is a bullshit term. There's right and there's wrong. Justice or injustice. That's how I see it.
Just once I'd like to see the devoted, loyal, steadfast, always-there guy friend get out of the Friend Box Trap and get the girl. I will never understand why women insist on whining to such guys about "why can't I find a guy like you" when that which they seek is right under their noses...
Tell your buddy Pondo that I says "Hound dog gonna get dat puddy" and that maybe this is Karma, that in a previous life he was a,jackrabbit and got too much so the good Lord said "That's it, you cant have no more"
Its cosmic
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-26-19, 01:53
Anytime the underdog is getting beaten or just basic unfairness. The problem with nowadays is the unfairness pales in comparison with yester years. Racism? Please. You have to be over the age of 50 to have been on the end of widespread, institutional, ass-whopping racism. It's hard to get some SJ brewing when cauliflour in the community garden, or microaggressions are the new bar.
I totally get (from what I understand) the Pashtunwali concepts of Melmastia and Nanwatai. Melmastia to me is kind of like deference on personal credit- until you act like an ass, I go out of my way to help strangers- and I do it a lot since I travel alot and I've been on the giving and receiving end. On the nanawatai, I don't cotton to people screwing with people in my sphere of influence. Don't know if it was genetic or learned from my parents, because I see the same traits in my kids- and my son in his age group is definitively sized quash non-compliars.
THe thing with SJWs isn't that their grievances aren't unfounded, though they are usually exaggerated- it's their prescription for the problem where we majorly part ways. Currently, asset seizures and pretty much any checkpoint. How upper echelon kids can spend the time and money to get test accommodations that lower income people can't afford is something that I can appreciate- and how that leads to the things like the "Varsity Blues" shenanigans. The whole labor versus capital - especially when you are talking about highly differentiated skilled and educated labor is really interesting. The amount of regulations and how that stifles people's ability to start companies to address the labor-capital issue is another.
How people self destruct and hurt themselves and others is something that I think can be better addressed sometimes than just locking people up or making them unemployable. People get a lot of head-trash swirling around in their noggins.
Not quite the same thing, but I frequently find myself able to at least identify with school shooters. Not sympathize with their actions but at least understand where they are coming from.
I was a shy, quiet introvert of a kid who wasn't into sports, an outsider, and so I was savagely bullied throughout school up until probably my sophomore year in high school (still sporadically after that but nowhere near as badly) so I know first-hand what that experience can do to a kid. Fearing going to school every day, wondering what's going to happen this time....day after day. And honestly, most days nothing happens, but sometimes it does and it's the not knowing when it's coming, you have to try and be ready all the time, even though being "ready" is futile, because it doesn't matter..it warps you.
Controversial disclosure here: my experience is probably what initially attracted me to guns as a kid. I don't come from a shooting family, I developed my interest in weaponry in middle/high school spontaneously, and thinking back I believe it originated from a desire to never be unable to protect myself. Obviously my interest in firearms became more multi-dimensional with time but early on, the appeal was in fact that they were something I could theoretically use to kill my tormentors. I don't know as I ever would have actually shot up my school had I actually had access to guns, I don't really think so, (not because I had an ethical objection, but because I feared the consequences I might face). But having been there I understand how some kids can reach their breaking point.
My extreme paranoia and mistrust of others probably has it's origins with my childhood bullying as well. And I firmly believe those experiences, and some others that would come later, permanently changed me and turned me into a darker, much crueler person than I would have become otherwise.
The flip side is the person I am now is much better suited to surviving in this shithole we call "the real world" than I might have been otherwise. A version of me who was not taught as a child that everyone really is out to get you would have been eaten alive as an adult.... and rightly so perhaps.
So in a strange conflicted dichotomy, I both pity my younger self for the experiences he had to endure and yet also despise him for being a weak piece of shit, whose weakness earned him his fate.
Integrating the military was an indescribably good thing that led to Civil Rights change and the world we live in now.
On a personal level, I fought tooth and nail (figuratively speaking) against school uniforms. Kids have to be able to express their individuality and creativity.
Andy
This should be interesting since despite 2A loyalists being shaded as a freedom loving crowd time and time again some have shown themselves to be particularly intolerant of individual liberty they find objectionable.
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I dunno, I am very tolerant. There is a tendency to label all Judea Christian values as intolerance. Should we force Chick-fil-A to print Muhammad's words in Arabic and the Śhrut Jnāna in Sanscrit like they do Christian verses in English? Should we all jump on the liberal anti-Semitism bus?
Andy
SomeOtherGuy
05-26-19, 09:42
changed my mind (what to post, not what I think)
Social justice is a bullshit term. There's right and there's wrong. Justice or injustice. That's how I see it.
Justice is justice; it’s what is due a person. Putting qualifiers on it dilutes that. Not that anyone cares about. It anymore.
QUOTE=Hulkstr8;2738071]Social justice is a bullshit term. There's right and there's wrong. Justice or injustice. That's how I see it.[/QUOTE]
Justice is giving to everyone his due. No more and no less. Putting adjectives in front of the word diminishes the whole concept whether we admit it or not.
Not that anyone cares any more.
QUOTE=Hulkstr8;2738071]Social justice is a bullshit term. There's right and there's wrong. Justice or injustice. That's how I see it.[/QUOTE]
Justice is giving to everyone his due. No more and no less. Putting adjectives in front of the word diminishes the whole concept whether we admit it or not.
Not that anyone cares any more.
This should be interesting since despite 2A loyalists being shaded as a freedom loving crowd time and time again some have shown themselves to be particularly intolerant of individual liberty they find objectionable.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
And often just a small amount of scrutiny shows they aren't even 2nd Amendment friendly either. Typically they are very supportive of various infringements on firearms (what and where just to name a couple of issues and zealously so if the infringements originate from a sect they worship) while lobbying for ever expanding privileges for certain occupational/societal groups.
Integrating the military was an indescribably good thing that led to Civil Rights change and the world we live in now.
On a personal level, I fought tooth and nail (figuratively speaking) against school uniforms. Kids have to be able to express their individuality and creativity.
Andy
thank you. these efforts and so many other brave Americans of similar beliefs have my undying gratitude for the increase of cleavage and dripping female sexuality on display during my formative high school years. there is no higher form of individuality and creativity than that of slut fashion. peak virtue.
I don't think the average length of shorts has risen to the length(or lack of) typical shorts prior to 1985.
Five_Point_Five_Six
05-26-19, 14:37
This should be interesting since despite 2A loyalists being shaded as a freedom loving crowd time and time again some have shown themselves to be particularly intolerant of individual liberty they find objectionable.
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Not all on this forum are truly 2A loyalists. Remember how many were calling for measures of feel good gun control after Sandy Hook? Pepperidge Farms remembers.
On a personal level, I fought tooth and nail (figuratively speaking) against school uniforms. Kids have to be able to express their individuality and creativity.
Andy
I have a different view - school uniforms - designating a color of slack.pant/jean/skirt with a polo shirt common to all - serves to level the playing field a little twixt the rich and the poor, plus it saves parents money and time.
Plus they may tend to focus the kids on school work rather than what so and so is wearing.
Kids can express their creativity and individuality the remaining 16 hours of the day.
I have a different view - school uniforms - designating a color of slack.pant/jean/skirt with a polo shirt common to all - serves to level the playing field a little twixt the rich and the poor, plus it saves parents money and time.
Plus they may tend to focus the kids on school work rather than what so and so is wearing.
Kids can express their creativity and individuality the remaining 16 hours of the day.
So much here I agree with. Kids should start viewing education as their job. You can be a free flight faggot in college.
Until such time, siddown, shaddup, and study.
School is NOT the place to:
-make friends
-get pregnant
-deal drugs
-join a gang
-care about cliques
All this extra. Plus school should be year round. Kids should be able to bank "off time" to coincide with family trips, personal needs, etc.
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-26-19, 15:58
I have a different view - school uniforms - designating a color of slack.pant/jean/skirt with a polo shirt common to all - serves to level the playing field a little twixt the rich and the poor, plus it saves parents money and time.
Plus they may tend to focus the kids on school work rather than what so and so is wearing.
Kids can express their creativity and individuality the remaining 16 hours of the day.
Son wasn't an issue, outside of him wanting to wear shorts in a snow storm. Daughter- ugh. This month it all has to be 'Pink' brand, even though none of it is actually pink in color. We are actually selling schools for HS that have a fairly strict dress code as that she can wear whatever she wants outside of school, and we'll have more money for that if we can go standard for during school clothes. Not working, but it was worth a try.
MountainRaven
05-26-19, 16:02
Stuff that I've actually seen in my lifetime:
When SCotUS said that the state should stay out of the bedroom.
When SCotUS said that gay marriage is fine. (I eagerly await the government getting out of marriage entirely and/or the legalization of polygamy.)
When Don't Ask, Don't Tell was ended.
Heller v. DC.
When that federal appeals court in California ruled that California's ban on standard capacity magazines was unConstitutional.
When Montana legalized marijuana for medicinal purposes.
When people started posting up the snake from the Gadsden Flag superimposed over the gay pride flag with, "#ShootBack," on them after Orlando.
Congress mandating the tracking of missing aboriginal American women by federal law enforcement.
When the Air Force let women start being fighter pilots.
And, of course, the impending, "Making women eligible for Selective Service," (which I've been a proponent of since at least high school - now almost 20 years) thing.
(I'm sure I can think of more, given time, but for now, I think that's it.)
Why does social justice conceptually lodge in our collective minds as “government”?
Social justice for me is when a town cleans up their trash, when shelters and job training is offered, and when they put their own money and effort into charter schools and hospitals. That’s social. The govt is hardly social.
Btw, on uniforms in schools, kids find a way to personalize them anyway. The girls that want to look sleazy and draw sexual attention always find a way.
I think making women eligible for selective service is unjust. Why? Because making men eligible for it is already unjust.
Why does social justice conceptually lodge in our collective minds as “government”?
Social justice for me is when a town cleans up their trash, when shelters and job training is offered, and when they put their own money and effort into charter schools and hospitals. That’s social. The govt is hardly social.
Btw, on uniforms in schools, kids find a way to personalize them anyway. The girls that want to look sleazy and draw sexual attention always find a way.
I think making women eligible for selective service is unjust. Why? Because making men eligible for it is already unjust.
I’d say it’s simply because the government has the monopoly on dispensing retributive and restorative sanction mechanisms.
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I’d say it’s simply because the government has the monopoly on dispensing retributive and restorative sanction mechanisms.
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Do they though? They are usually stopping social justice by removing the means to restore with regulation, taxation, and bureaucracy. And then pretend to rescue people from the very problems they caused. So yeah, they have a monopoly on coercion but not the real mechanisms of justice. But since we as a culture wrongly assume govt involvement for justice, we have the rise of SJWs who seek to use the govt rather than persuasion and goodness to achieve their own construct of “justice.”
I’m all for justice both individual and “social.” But the govt is the last thing to be included on that list.
MountainRaven
05-26-19, 18:21
Do they though? They are usually stopping social justice by removing the means to restore with regulation, taxation, and bureaucracy. And then pretend to rescue people from the very problems they caused. So yeah, they have a monopoly on coercion but not the real mechanisms of justice. But since we as a culture wrongly assume govt involvement for justice, we have the rise of SJWs who seek to use the govt rather than persuasion and goodness to achieve their own construct of “justice.”
I’m all for justice both individual and “social.” But the govt is the last thing to be included on that list.
In most, if not all, Western countries, the government has a monopoly on the, "legitimate use of force." (What makes it legitimate? The fact that the majority of people living in those countries believe it to be so.)
The government is thus the final arbiter of what is and is not right in such places - such is the cost of giving up the sort of tribal justice common in the West prior to the age of nationalism and still common throughout the Middle East.
I have a different view - school uniforms - designating a color of slack.pant/jean/skirt with a polo shirt common to all - serves to level the playing field a little twixt the rich and the poor, plus it saves parents money and time.
Plus they may tend to focus the kids on school work rather than what so and so is wearing.
Kids can express their creativity and individuality the remaining 16 hours of the day.
So what really happens is that the poor kids are ridiculed because their slacks and Polos are from Walmart instead of GAP or Hollisters and kids just talk about shoes, jewelry, hair, etc. It is just another way to start training us to submit to Big Brother at an early age.
It's kind of telling that the salaried teachers and administrators don't wear uniforms (because Unions).
Call me crazy, but I would like schools to teach kids math, history, physics, biology, english, computer science and life skills instead of trying to control every facet of their lives.
Andy
BoringGuy45
05-26-19, 19:39
So much here I agree with. Kids should start viewing education as their job. You can be a free flight faggot in college.
Until such time, siddown, shaddup, and study.
School is NOT the place to:
-make friends
-get pregnant
-deal drugs
-join a gang
-care about cliques
All this extra. Plus school should be year round. Kids should be able to bank "off time" to coincide with family trips, personal needs, etc.
I think that schools IS a place to make friends. Part of growth is social functioning. Also, you can't tell kids to think like adults, because they're not adults. Kids learn better when they're enjoying the process. Hell, EVERYONE does, regardless of age. The more pressure you put on them, while at the same time withholding the pleasure, the more the kids just go through the motions and tune out their education.
What I think is that there needs to be a reassessment of what's taught in schools. Instead of algebra and geometry, we need to be doing more economics, statistics, and other practical math. There should be emphasis on vocational and technical training outside of tech schools. Basic car maintenance, plumbing, agriculture, computer troubleshooting and networking, and such. Not to make anyone into a tradesman, but just enough for people to have general practical skills in everyday life. Teach whole courses on logic, rhetoric, and critical thinking. Don't educate kids on what to think. Teach them how to think.
In most, if not all, Western countries, the government has a monopoly on the, "legitimate use of force." (What makes it legitimate? The fact that the majority of people living in those countries believe it to be so.)
The government is thus the final arbiter of what is and is not right in such places - such is the cost of giving up the sort of tribal justice common in the West prior to the age of nationalism and still common throughout the Middle East.
I’m pretty sure this agrees with my point. That a majority makes something “legitimate” would be a major contention for me for justice isn’t founded on majority opinion. They can call it “justice” all they like but that’s like calling a gun free zone “safe.”
I’m pretty sure this agrees with my point. That a majority makes something “legitimate” would be a major contention for me for justice isn’t founded on majority opinion. They can call it “justice” all they like but that’s like calling a gun free zone “safe.”
Ok so go and disperse some vigilante justice upon the wrong doers and let me know how that turns out.
Oh, it didn’t turn out well? The government still prosecuted you despite your actions being righteous?
Interesting.
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Ok so go and disperse some vigilante justice upon the wrong doers and let me know how that turns out.
Oh, it didn’t turn out well? The government still prosecuted you despite your actions being righteous?
Interesting.
As I stated above, there are more ways to bring moral reform. Vigilante justice may be what you have in mind and may be what you think .gov is for. I don’t think violence solves most social injustices as most people think about them. You can’t use violence to build a hospital or tend to the poor. But your reply does solidify my point that social justice has wedged itself into modern assumption in popular dialog as a govt thing. But that isn’t what history has taught us.
Moral reform (aka “social justice”) comes in all shapes and sizes and most of the time prospers without govt. Mother Teresa, MLK, Jesus, hospitals, orphanages, helping leper colonies, eradicating diseases, inventions... all these things are social justice and require good people pooling resources to move to action. Often the good people are mocked, stifled, undercut, and killed by the govt and other powers that be that the people supported as the status quo. Yes, they do prosecute righteous people. That we celebrate that govt injustice as “social justice” is top drawer cultural relativism. Civil rights laws came about as a result of real social justice. It didn’t cause the social justice. Laws were cherry on the top of other people’s work and often brought a coercive element that kept the moral reform from bringing greater good.
My point: You don’t need a govt to define or cause social justice anymore than you need them to exercise your body to health, raise good children, or to get one’s dysfunctional butt to a therapist.
I think that schools IS a place to make friends. Part of growth is social functioning. Also, you can't tell kids to think like adults, because they're not adults. Kids learn better when they're enjoying the process. Hell, EVERYONE does, regardless of age. The more pressure you put on them, while at the same time withholding the pleasure, the more the kids just go through the motions and tune out their education.
What I think is that there needs to be a reassessment of what's taught in schools. Instead of algebra and geometry, we need to be doing more economics, statistics, and other practical math. There should be emphasis on vocational and technical training outside of tech schools. Basic car maintenance, plumbing, agriculture, computer troubleshooting and networking, and such. Not to make anyone into a tradesman, but just enough for people to have general practical skills in everyday life. Teach whole courses on logic, rhetoric, and critical thinking. Don't educate kids on what to think. Teach them how to think.
Uhh... algebra and geometry teach you how to think every bit as much any "practical" math. They are the building blocks for higher math that is dreadfully needed in this country if we expect to compete in an increasingly technological world.
BoringGuy45
05-26-19, 21:52
Uhh... algebra and geometry teach you how to think every bit as much any "practical" math. They are the building blocks for higher math that is dreadfully needed in this country if we expect to compete in an increasingly technological world.
Maybe, but it's taught as a theoretical concept. There's very little attempt to show practical, everyday application. At least from my experience.
SomeOtherGuy
05-26-19, 22:05
Moral reform (aka “social justice”) comes in all shapes and sizes and most of the time prospers without govt. Mother Teresa, MLK, Jesus, hospitals, orphanages, helping leper colonies, eradicating diseases, inventions... all these things are social justice and require good people pooling resources to move to action. Often the good people are mocked, stifled, undercut, and killed by the govt and other powers that be that the people supported as the status quo.
Interesting list. Mother Teresa is not universally viewed as a good person, and I'll leave that for anyone's own research. As for MLK, it's long been known that he was not faithful to his wife, and there are credible allegations that his doctoral writing was plagiarized. Just today there's a story claiming that he was pretty far out sexually to the point of witnessing and condoning rape. So far just one author's allegations, but allegedly backed by FBI recordings. Here's the article:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7071713/FBI-tapes-Martin-Luther-King-Jr-40-affairs-laughed-friend-raped-parishioner.html
Anyway, the bigger picture is that "social justice" is an inherently political concept, with winners and losers. It's not charity, or good works. It usually seems to boil down to some variation of "give me that" without convincing moral argument.
SomeOtherGuy
05-26-19, 22:11
In most, if not all, Western countries, the government has a monopoly on the, "legitimate use of force." (What makes it legitimate? The fact that the majority of people living in those countries believe it to be so.)
And why do a majority of people in those countries believe that the government has a legitimate monopoly? Because the government tells them it does! And why do the ever so slightly deeper among them believe they should trust the government? Because it has all the power to force them to do things! Circular, circular reasoning all the way down. A large majority of populations even in the highly developed and higher-average-IQ countries are morally stunted, stopping their moral development at the level of elementary schoolers.
Interesting list. Mother Teresa is not universally viewed as a good person, and I'll leave that for anyone's own research. As for MLK, it's long been known that he was not faithful to his wife, and there are credible allegations that his doctoral writing was plagiarized. Just today there's a story claiming that he was pretty far out sexually to the point of witnessing and condoning rape. So far just one author's allegations, but allegedly backed by FBI recordings. Here's the article:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7071713/FBI-tapes-Martin-Luther-King-Jr-40-affairs-laughed-friend-raped-parishioner.html
Anyway, the bigger picture is that "social justice" is an inherently political concept, with winners and losers. It's not charity, or good works. It usually seems to boil down to some variation of "give me that" without convincing moral argument.
Personal shortcomings do not negate the justness of their cause. That’s the generic fallacy in logic and an important distinction for this discussion.
I agree with you that in the popular level social justice has been void of a convincing moral argument.
Why does social justice conceptually lodge in our collective minds as “government”?
Social justice for me is when a town cleans up their trash, when shelters and job training is offered, and when they put their own money and effort into charter schools and hospitals. That’s social. The govt is hardly social.
Btw, on uniforms in schools, kids find a way to personalize them anyway. The girls that want to look sleazy and draw sexual attention always find a way.
I think making women eligible for selective service is unjust. Why? Because making men eligible for it is already unjust.
I don't think a lot of the things that have been mentioned would have occurred without Government intervention.
As for selective service, in my view service is a responsibility of every citizen, sometimes the tribe might need everyone to man the walls or tend to those who cant tend to themselves.
Personal shortcomings do not negate the justness of their cause. That’s the generic fallacy in logic and an important distinction for this discussion.
I agree with you that in the popular level social justice has been void of a convincing moral argument.
Dayum, thats pretty much the first thing you've posted that I wholeheartedly agree with.
Maybe, but it's taught as a theoretical concept. There's very little attempt to show practical, everyday application. At least from my experience.
My daughter, fresh out of high school calculates roof pitches, runs and angles in our business. She calculates areas of circles, volumes of tubes, and other area problems. She understands how to solve triangle problems based on similar triangles, and how to solve geometric problems. All of this came from high school algebra, trigonometry, and geometry. She took the concepts she learned in high school and applied them. It's not like she's some genius, she barely passed those classes.
I don't disagree that we need to teach kids how to think, but without the basics in math, language skills, and science, classes like economics, statistics and reasoning are very difficult to teach.
BoringGuy45
05-27-19, 11:31
My daughter, fresh out of high school calculates roof pitches, runs and angles in our business. She calculates areas of circles, volumes of tubes, and other area problems. She understands how to solve triangle problems based on similar triangles, and how to solve geometric problems. All of this came from high school algebra, trigonometry, and geometry. She took the concepts she learned in high school and applied them. It's not like she's some genius, she barely passed those classes.
I don't disagree that we need to teach kids how to think, but without the basics in math, language skills, and science, classes like economics, statistics and reasoning are very difficult to teach.
I agree that we do need the basics, and I'm not arguing that we get rid algebra and geometry. But rather than continue teach and build on theoretical concepts, once the base is established, they need to be showing how it applies in everyday life. I used math as an example, but there needs to be more emphasis in all subjects as to how to apply them, and also how to guide your interests and strengths into a career path. This goes for college as well.
, once the base is established, they need to be showing how it applies in everyday life. .
My experience is from a few decades back, but I doubt many instructors know how it applies to everyday life outside of a school setiing since they have spent little to none of their life in any other setting.
The_War_Wagon
05-27-19, 12:28
I was SJW (single Jewish woman) BEFORE it was cool... :cool:
https://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc305/The_War_Wagon/blackgunsmatter_zpsciw2fo1c.jpg
https://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc305/The_War_Wagon/civilians_zpsongonltd.jpg
https://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc305/The_War_Wagon/nerf_zpsj9zrmadn.jpg
https://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc305/The_War_Wagon/Hoplophobia_Awareness_Guns_Fear_zpsrisc8cna.jpg
Diamondback
05-27-19, 12:37
My experience is from a few decades back, but I doubt many instructors know how it applies to everyday life outside of a school setiing since they have spent little to none of their life in any other setting.
Sadly so true. Maybe I would've struggled less with math and not been driven to become a History major if the curriculum had been less "stuffy pedantic pedagogue" and more "show me some cool shit I can do with this."
This is also why despite my goal being college history prof, I intend to shove as much grade-school-style hands-on learning like Range Days, "Field Ration Luncheons" and wargaming as I can into it when I get my classroom, because those techniques WORK. Combine discussion with experience, and if you inject some fun into it people will bust their asses without even realizing they're doing it.
My experience is from a few decades back, but I doubt many instructors know how it applies to everyday life outside of a school setiing since they have spent little to none of their life in any other setting.
I know that we are all aware of this, I'm just reminding us, you can say the same thing about most all of our politicians.
Sadly so true. Maybe I would've struggled less with math and not been driven to become a History major if the curriculum had been less "stuffy pedantic pedagogue" and more "show me some cool shit I can do with this."
This is also why despite my goal being college history prof, I intend to shove as much grade-school-style hands-on learning like Range Days, "Field Ration Luncheons" and wargaming as I can into it when I get my classroom, because those techniques WORK. Combine discussion with experience, and if you inject some fun into it people will bust their asses without even realizing they're doing it.
Yeah I had one geometry teacher in particular in high school that would point out how a formula could be used in construction, even showed us a video on Frank Lloyd Wright and Falling Water as an example. 30 years ago and I can still remember it. At the opposite end, I had others that if they knew the subject (a huge if in some cases) they had no ability to transfer the knowledge.
In college I had some that had worked private sector that knew their stuff. Perhaps even better were some who had hobbies that made use of the subject. Even had one who built muzzle loaders from scratch with another who was working on one as time allowed.
SomeOtherGuy
05-27-19, 13:39
Personal shortcomings do not negate the justness of their cause. That’s the generic fallacy in logic and an important distinction for this discussion.
Actually the "genetic fallacy," not generic:
https://www.logicalfallacies.info/relevance/genetic/
And I disagree, but it may be that we have substantially different underlying knowledge and/or assumptions.
I agree that we do need the basics, and I'm not arguing that we get rid algebra and geometry. But rather than continue teach and build on theoretical concepts, once the base is established, they need to be showing how it applies in everyday life. I used math as an example, but there needs to be more emphasis in all subjects as to how to apply them, and also how to guide your interests and strengths into a career path. This goes for college as well.
Continuing on the de-rail since the OP topic is so broad. The issue is that if you have a class of 30 kids, each one of them is going on a different career path. My daughter graduated in a class of 30 (tiny small town and my class was 15 at the same school) not one of her fellow students is in the same career path as she is. In most graduating classes you will have a couple in the military and couple that become teachers, but after that it's a shotgun pattern. There is zero realistic way we can accommodate the changing whims of teenage children and help them along some sort of specific career path in public schools today. There is simply not a way to afford it.
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-27-19, 14:56
Frankly, if I had to do it over again i’d get a degree in math or physics, preferably a PhD degree. As the world gets more complex, it all starts to come down to math, and physics is to me just high level applied math. Too esoteric? I think it was Oppenheimer who measured the power of the first atom bomb by watching the blast wave move some scraps of paper that he threw into the air. If you are smart and actually understand the fundamentals, and know some constants, you can work out all kinds of things.
This relates to SJWs in that they seem to gravitate towards less strenuous and demanding degrees, and then think that they can ‘level up’ to $250k/yr jobs.
Personal shortcomings do not negate the justness of their cause.
It may not the cause, but it can certainly cast doubt on their area of it. That can range from petty nonsense/preconceived notions on up to well founded concerns the person is only doing something as a false front to draw attention away from an insidious ulterior motive.
Averageman
05-27-19, 20:21
We simply suck at teaching math.
Sorry, but if you pack 40 kids in to Algebra I, it's simply going to suck for 10 of them.
HardToHandle
05-27-19, 21:55
I reject per se social justice as events. Mostly they are people.
1) James Meredith. Balls of steel. Air Force veteran. Man who shaped the world through courage and forbearance.
2) Hillary Clinton. First woman nominated as major party presidential candidate. Putting yourself first and stepping on the little people eventually results in a comeuppance.
3) Firefly. He makes M4C a place of great mirth and occasional deep thought. Iconoclast extraordinaire.
Doc Safari
05-28-19, 11:47
I'm all for animal rights, just not the nut fringe "don't eat meat" crowd. Food animals really are mistreated. I don't even want to think about it.
BoringGuy45
05-28-19, 11:49
I'm all for animal rights, just not the nut fringe "don't eat meat" crowd. Food animals really are mistreated. I don't even want to think about it.
Agreed. And penalties for animal cruelty outside the food industry need to be a lot harsher.
Outlander Systems
05-28-19, 12:36
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edict_of_Expulsion
societal intervention needed to happen
When the Air Force let women start being fighter pilots.
Definitely.
I was watching a program on WWII "WASP's" last night. I never knew that they underwent full USAAF training to become pilots, yet had to accept male jumpsuits that didn't fit, weren't considered active duty military and had no veterans status until 1977. Even when they died on duty, their funeral expenses weren't covered by the military! They didn't get flags on their coffins or any military honors whatsoever. (38 WASP pilots lost their lives in training or on missions).
If you're unaware of the WASP program, it's high on my recommended read/watch list.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_Airforce_Service_Pilots
WickedWillis
05-28-19, 15:07
Just once I'd like to see the devoted, loyal, steadfast, always-there guy friend get out of the Friend Box Trap and get the girl. I will never understand why women insist on whining to such guys about "why can't I find a guy like you" when that which they seek is right under their noses...
Also because a majority of guys that think they are "Good guys" are not.
We tend to have very skewed views of ourselves, especially how we feel we do or should appear to the opposite sex.
This should be interesting since despite 2A loyalists being shaded as a freedom loving crowd time and time again some have shown themselves to be particularly intolerant of individual liberty they find objectionable.
I'll go a step further and say that a fair bit of those folk probably lean towards the authoritarian camp.
On topic: Gay Marriage. I'm filled with glee that Alabama is basically getting out of the state sanctioned marriage business altogether rather than "legitimize" same sex couples.
I'll go a step further and say that a fair bit of those folk probably lean towards the authoritarian camp.
On topic: Gay Marriage. I'm filled with glee that Alabama is basically getting out of the state sanctioned marriage business altogether rather than "legitimize" same sex couples.
I think marriage is a religious institution, I'd be okay with a civil union agreement in addition to my marriage.
Also because a majority of guys that think they are "Good guys" are not.
We tend to have very skewed views of ourselves, especially how we feel we do or should appear to the opposite sex.
So much this.
Trying to play games with girls makes them feel like you are disingenuous. Either be their friend or pursue them sexually but dont try to pick what is convenient and then cry when they don't pick up on your little mind games.
Its really not hard to get women. That is too easy. It's all the other extra that happens once you got one.
ETA go rewatch Pretty in Pink to see why this is creepy. plus if your competition is mid 80s Andrew McCarthy then just give up because he was quite a pretty young man. No homo but yeah
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