View Full Version : EFF TSA
I was on the way back to the USA, from a week in Geneva.
Had a lay over in Iceland, where much to my surprise I was selected for a secondary security screening by the TSA idiots.
I find myself in line with a bunch of other white people, that asking around seemed around 98% of us had American passports.
We were treated very rudely, by the Icelandic contractors for the TSA.
We were forced to remove shoes which were swabbed.
We were then told to losen our belts and step up on a box.
The Euro trash fag, looks me in the eye and tells me "I am going to be sticking my hands inside your pants, is that ok"
I replied" Sure it is ok, if it is ok with you that I knock you the F*@k out.
He replied " Do I need to call the police and besides you can't get on the plane without my hands getting into your pants."
Told him lets get it over with.
I watched woman sob and babies cry in hysterics.
It was a day, I was so proud to be an American.
Got on my flight which had around 30 people on it that were 100% for sure Muslims. But didn't see those people in line with us. Also sat next to a very nice American black woman on the flight and she had seen a group of us taken off for this crap. She is the one that said she saw no black folk in the line.
I AM NEVER GOING TO GO THROUGH THIS AGAIN!
I am looking for ways to insure that I will never be molested by agents of the government again.
Our forefathers are so proud of us.
Just another sad example of what we've come to. I think about how to fix this every day...
Sorry to hear this Yoni. Let us know what solution you find for this problem.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
05-26-19, 11:47
Our forefathers didn't have terrorists bent on destroying our civilization through the use of civilian airplanes chock full o' innocents.
What is your proposal to keep airtravel safe without violating your rights?
Is airtravel a right?
Could you not have taken a boat?
Our forefathers didn't have terrorists bent on destroying our civilization through the use of civilian airplanes chock full o' innocents.
What is your proposal to keep airtravel safe without violating your rights?
Is airtravel a right?
Could you not have taken a boat?
The forefathers were familiar with violent personnel (the king's men and natives) and the peons often dealt with both.
Our forefathers didn't have terrorists bent on destroying our civilization through the use of civilian airplanes chock full o' innocents.
What is your proposal to keep airtravel safe without violating your rights?
Is airtravel a right?
Could you not have taken a boat?
Do what Israel does nothing more, nothing less.
Besides you really didn't read what I wrote they were only checking white Americans and a few white Europeans.
The Muslims on my flight didn't get checked.
Read before you respond, then you will understand why I am pissed off.
Just another sad example of what we've come to. I think about how to fix this every day...
Sorry to hear this Yoni. Let us know what solution you find for this problem.
Since the vast majority that got bagged were American passports, I am looking into the legality of having a different countries passport in the same name as my American passport and book travel on that passport but carry my American with me to go through immigration.
I’m not a flag waiving supporter of the TSA, however if you were in Iceland when this happened to you, it was not TSA.
TSA is part of the UNITED STATES Dept of Homeland Security. To be fair to the TSA, what you experienced were security protocols from another country’s TSA equivalent. They don’t necessarily carry out all procedures the same way.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I’m not a flag waiving supporter of the TSA, however if you were in Iceland when this happened to you, it was not TSA.
TSA is part of the UNITED STATES Dept of Homeland Security. To be fair to the TSA, what you experienced were security protocols from another country’s TSA equivalent. They don’t necessarily carry out all procedures the same way.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI haven't traveled abroad in quite some time, but I understand our TSA does check people inbound on flights to the US. This is just what I've heard though. What is the truth?
Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
Straight Shooter
05-26-19, 15:24
I was on the way back to the USA, from a week in Geneva.
Had a lay over in Iceland, where much to my surprise I was selected for a secondary security screening by the TSA idiots.
I find myself in line with a bunch of other white people, that asking around seemed around 98% of us had American passports.
We were treated very rudely, by the Icelandic contractors for the TSA.
We were forced to remove shoes which were swabbed.
We were then told to losen our belts and step up on a box.
The Euro trash fag, looks me in the eye and tells me "I am going to be sticking my hands inside your pants, is that ok"
I replied" Sure it is ok, if it is ok with you that I knock you the F*@k out.
He replied " Do I need to call the police and besides you can't get on the plane without my hands getting into your pants."
Told him lets get it over with.
I watched woman sob and babies cry in hysterics.
It was a day, I was so proud to be an American.
Got on my flight which had around 30 people on it that were 100% for sure Muslims. But didn't see those people in line with us. Also sat next to a very nice American black woman on the flight and she had seen a group of us taken off for this crap. She is the one that said she saw no black folk in the line.
I AM NEVER GOING TO GO THROUGH THIS AGAIN!
I am looking for ways to insure that I will never be molested by agents of the government again.
Our forefathers are so proud of us.
I know this ISNT an option for you sir...but I went thru some minor, compared to what you just described..shit back in 2005 going/coming back from the NRA Convention in Houston. I havent & WONT fly again.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
05-26-19, 15:25
Do what Israel does nothing more, nothing less.
Besides you really didn't read what I wrote they were only checking white Americans and a few white Europeans.
The Muslims on my flight didn't get checked.
Read before you respond, then you will understand why I am pissed off.
I read your post, and while I doubt the validity of your claims, are you suggesting white folk don't carry out terror attacks?
Again, I ask, what is your proposal to secure flights without violating rights?
Do what Israel does nothing more, nothing less.
The difference between Israeli airport security and American airport security is several orders of magnitude:
1. Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport (Georgia, US) -- 107.4 million passengers
2. Beijing Capital International Airport (China) -- 101 million
3. Dubai International Airport (United Arab Emirates) -- 89.1 million
4. Los Angeles International Airport (California, US) -- 87.5 million
5. Tokyo's Haneda Airport (Japan) -- 87.1 million
6. Chicago's O'Hare International Airport (Illinois, US) -- 83.3 million
7. London's Heathrow Airport (United Kingdom) -- 80.1 million
8. Hong Kong International Airport (China) -- 74.5 million
9. Shanghai Pudong International Airport (China) -- 74 million
10. Paris Charles de Gaulle Airport (France) -- 72.2 million
11. Amsterdam Airport Schiphol (Netherlands) -- 71 million
12. New Delhi's Indira Gandhi International Airport (India) -- 69.9 million
13. Guangzhou Baiyun International Airport (China) -- 69.8 million
14. Frankfurt Airport (Germany) -- 69.5 million
15. Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport (Texas, US) -- 69.1 million
16. Seoul's Incheon International Airport (South Korea) -- 68.4 million
17. Istanbul's Atatürk International Airport (Turkey) -- 68.2 million
18. Jakarta's Soekarno-Hatta International Airport (Indonesia) -- 66.9 million
19. Singapore Changi Airport (Singapore) -- 65.6 million
20. Denver International Airport (Colorado, US) -- 64.5 million
22. John F. Kennedy International Airport -- 61.9 million
25. San Francisco International Airport -- 57.8 million
29. Seattle-Tacoma International Airport -- 49.8 million
30. McCarran International Airport -- 49.8 million
34. Orlando International Airport -- 47.7 million
37. Charlotte Douglas International Airport -- 46.4 million
40. Newark Liberty International Airport -- 46 million
43. Miami International Airport -- 45 million
44. Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport -- 44.9 million
47. George Bush Intercontinental Airport -- 43.8 million
out of the top 50
Logan International Airport[ -- 41 million
Minneapolis/St Paul International Airport -- 37.4
In fact there are 25 airports in the United States which handled more passenger traffic than all of Israel's airports combined - which was about 23.4 million according to Wiki.
So, yeah, we need to do it like the Israeli's, that will work.
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-26-19, 15:43
Since the vast majority that got bagged were American passports, I am looking into the legality of having a different countries passport in the same name as my American passport and book travel on that passport but carry my American with me to go through immigration.
Probably more of a hassle and flagging issue when the manifest doesn’t have you on the flight as a US citizen..
I’m not a flag waiving supporter of the TSA, however if you were in Iceland when this happened to you, it was not TSA.
TSA is part of the UNITED STATES Dept of Homeland Security. To be fair to the TSA, what you experienced were security protocols from another country’s TSA equivalent. They don’t necessarily carry out all procedures the same way.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I haven't traveled abroad in quite some time, but I understand our TSA does check people inbound on flights to the US. This is just what I've heard though. What is the truth?
Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
I didn’t go through it but in Frankfurt the airport map had some TSA locations marked. I’ve been ‘SSSS’ in Japan coming back on a connection from China And been swabbed and fondled.
I read your post, and while I doubt the validity of your claims, are you suggesting white folk don't carry out terror attacks?
Again, I ask, what is your proposal to secure flights without violating rights?
He gave you the answer, but you’ve never flown in and out of Israel? They play man-to-man defense and depend less on who hid the sports drink or nail file.
There are literally MTs of stuff coming in to the airport along with people from terrorist countries, but we endure the security theatre upstairs.
I was on the way back to the USA, from a week in Geneva.
Had a lay over in Iceland, where much to my surprise I was selected for a secondary security screening by the TSA idiots.
I find myself in line with a bunch of other white people, that asking around seemed around 98% of us had American passports.
We were treated very rudely, by the Icelandic contractors for the TSA.
We were forced to remove shoes which were swabbed.
We were then told to losen our belts and step up on a box.
The Euro trash fag, looks me in the eye and tells me "I am going to be sticking my hands inside your pants, is that ok"
I replied" Sure it is ok, if it is ok with you that I knock you the F*@k out.
He replied " Do I need to call the police and besides you can't get on the plane without my hands getting into your pants."
Told him lets get it over with.
I watched woman sob and babies cry in hysterics.
It was a day, I was so proud to be an American.
Got on my flight which had around 30 people on it that were 100% for sure Muslims. But didn't see those people in line with us. Also sat next to a very nice American black woman on the flight and she had seen a group of us taken off for this crap. She is the one that said she saw no black folk in the line.
I AM NEVER GOING TO GO THROUGH THIS AGAIN!
I am looking for ways to insure that I will never be molested by agents of the government again.
Our forefathers are so proud of us.
Interesting....
Yet in Israel they are pretty discriminatory towards who boards, when, and how by nationality, race, and religion.
Also the TSA person announced he was going to pat-frisk you and you threatened him.
Dont take this the wrong way, but if I am on hour 8 of a 12 hour shift and some dude threatens to hit me for doing my job; he can expect to be tackled, tased, and charged with obstruction and terroristic threats.
I am a shady looking guy and I've never gotten TSA looking treatment and everytime I have to get wanded or searched; I just accept it.
These are White People Problems, yoni.
There was a time when people could expect weeks at sea and now they fly through the air like Greek Gods on Iron Chariots across the world in a day and still complain....
sheesh
First of all I was on the flight on my American passport, the one I got by being born in the USA.
Second regarding Israeli methods they can be up scaled to meet American needs.
Third, the people were contractors to the TSA. All the posters on the wall were TSA USA.
Lastly, ost of you seem to accept this as what should be normal. I have no doubt you will do the same thing when guns are outlawed in the USA.
I AM NEVER GOING TO GO THROUGH THIS AGAIN!
I am looking for ways to insure that I will never be molested by agents of the government again.
I sympathize with you sir.
Outside of using private or corporate planes, how would one avoid TSA?
Would having TSA Precheck status afford a traveler better treatment?
I have never not had to remove my shoes.
If they want to see what's in my pants, I'm taking them off and handing them my pants.
Getting worked up is pointless and just means they will detain you longer.
It's BS because if I was wearing a shemagh I'd probably be waived right through.
Sadly the terrorists won in 9-11 and successfully changed OUR way of life. Rather than profile "likely" terrorists they do "random screening" of the people least likely to be a terrorist. Always annoys me when they are shaking down some old lady.
Once upon a time I could walk my wife to the gate and watch her plane take off and when I flew home my family was at the gate to welcome me.
Lastly, ost of you seem to accept this as what should be normal. I have no doubt you will do the same thing when guns are outlawed in the USA.
You probably shouldn't make that assumption.
I have decided to pretty much never fly again unless it's absolutely necessary. It's their plane and their company, kinda like hiring a car service. Their shit, their rules.
If they say you can't fly in sandals, well then you can't fly in sandals. It's hardly the same as losing your right to vote, publish your thoughts or arm yourself.
I sympathize with you sir.
Would having TSA Precheck status afford a traveler better treatment?
Nope, some of the people had TSA Precheck status.
I sympathize with you sir.
Would having TSA Precheck status afford a traveler better treatment?
Nope, some of the people had TSA Precheck status.
First of all I was on the flight on my American passport, the one I got by being born in the USA.
Second regarding Israeli methods they can be up scaled to meet American needs.
Third, the people were contractors to the TSA. All the posters on the wall were TSA USA.
Lastly, ost of you seem to accept this as what should be normal. I have no doubt you will do the same thing when guns are outlawed in the USA.
Did you take the time to enlighten them as to the proclaimed superiority of Israeli airport screening methodologies? Or are you just mad you didn’t receive preferential treatment?
I honestly can’t tell
Also, having worked with the Israeli prime minister security folks and coming away not all impressed it strikes me as bit short sighted to suggest one way is the end all be all of ways to do something.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Understand I know TSA is a way of life, but this was way over the top.
Swabbing a baby, and old ladies that are American citizens not to mention all the others is just pure BS.
Especially since they allow Muslims on the plane without going through this.
Seem like their actions are mostly theatrics.
MountainRaven
05-26-19, 18:10
Sadly the terrorists won in 9-11 and successfully changed OUR way of life. Rather than profile "likely" terrorists they do "random screening" of the people least likely to be a terrorist. Always annoys me when they are shaking down some old lady.
I remember reading a quote made late in 2001, shortly after 9/11 and the passage of the Patriot Act, about how 19 terrorists killed fewer than 3,000 people and got the entire West to trash their hard-won civil liberties dating back to Magna Carta - liberties that hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people died over nearly (at the time) eight hundred years to preserve.
Of course, it's 2019, and Google is playing nice with authoritarians, so naturally I'm unable to find it.
I have decided to pretty much never fly again unless it's absolutely necessary. It's their plane and their company, kinda like hiring a car service. Their shit, their rules.
If they say you can't fly in sandals, well then you can't fly in sandals. It's hardly the same as losing your right to vote, publish your thoughts or arm yourself.
On the one hand, yes.
On the other hand, the ability to freely move within a country is a good measure of that country's freedom. "Ihre Papiere bitte," was oft heard in Nazi Germany and East Germany and the Russian equivalent was spoken through out the Soviet Union.
When I was a kid, you could freely travel in and out of Canada and Mexico without a passport. Today, I need a passport just to board an airplane as a Montana resident.
you can just get off the baby kick right now.
People have and do use babies to suitcase all manners of contraband up to an including weapons. You should know this.
The fact that you cite an LE background and were traveling under an American passport and threatened an American TSA person is cause for outrage. We should all take a minute to recognize the maturity, patience, and professionalism of that Agent because again if I tell you I am to pat-frisk you and you threaten to strike me; at very least you, sir, will be missing that flight.
I've flown with guns before and didnt once toss out creds and nothing they requested of me seemed unreasonable, unfair, or discriminatory. I got my happy ass on flight on time and without issue.
Your grievances are unfounded
MountainRaven
05-26-19, 18:26
you can just get off the baby kick right now.
People have and do use babies to suitcase all manners of contraband up to an including weapons. You should know this.
The fact that you cite an LE background and were traveling under an American passport and threatened an American TSA person is cause for outrage. We should all take a minute to recognize the maturity, patience, and professionalism of that Agent because again if I tell you I am to pat-frisk you and you threaten to strike me; at very least you, sir, will be missing that flight.
I've flown with guns before and didnt once toss out creds and nothing they requested of me seemed unreasonable, unfair, or discriminatory. I got my happy ass on flight on time and without issue.
Your grievances are unfounded
If the grievance is that the TSA is security theater that violates our civil rights without a single merit, then they are well-founded.
Threatening an agent of the Gestapo isn't morally wrong, it's merely stupid.
Straight Shooter
05-26-19, 18:31
Understand I know TSA is a way of life, but this was way over the top.
Swabbing a baby, and old ladies that are American citizens not to mention all the others is just pure BS.
Especially since they allow Muslims on the plane without going through this.
Your point, of only Americans and/or whites being re-screened thoroughly,whilst muslims were completely ignored, to me is a very valid issue to be pissed about.
And I also agree many would give up their weapons just as easily.
And IM GLAD Israel does what they do to screen, no other country on Earth is hated as much as they are..I HOPE they profile like a mofacka.
If the grievance is that the TSA is security theater that violates our civil rights without a single merit, then they are well-founded.
Threatening an agent of the Gestapo isn't morally wrong, it's merely stupid.
I highly doubt he raised his Blutmesser skyward to swear fealty to the 4th Reich before he came to work that day.
If yoni said "I think this is BS" agent would have said "You are entitled to your
opinion, sir. But we have to do this to let you on."
Theres a difference between not approving and going full Sovereign Citizen on a humbug
How did you 'know' they were Muslims?
Because they were swarthy and middle eastern? Did you ask? Did they ask you to revert to Islam?
Just asking
MountainRaven
05-26-19, 18:38
How did you 'know' they were Muslims?
Because they were swarthy and middle eastern? Did you ask? Did they ask you to revert to Islam?
Just asking
Are you suggesting that Yoni is an apostate Muslim?
:P
Are you suggesting that Yoni is an apostate Muslim?
:P
I will not assume his religious denomimation nor gender sir
Understand I know TSA is a way of life, but this was way over the top.
Swabbing a baby, and old ladies that are American citizens not to mention all the others is just pure BS.
Especially since they allow Muslims on the plane without going through this.
Policing 101: profiling works.
But I guess they don’t teach that in the academies anymore.
Understand I know TSA is a way of life, but this was way over the top.
Swabbing a baby, and old ladies that are American citizens not to mention all the others is just pure BS.
Especially since they allow Muslims on the plane without going through this.
Yes, it's mostly BS.
Seem like their actions are mostly theatrics.
That seems to be what most of it is. People think "Oh good they are checking people" and "Oh good they don't seem to be profiling those poor MOPES."
I remember reading a quote made late in 2001, shortly after 9/11 and the passage of the Patriot Act, about how 19 terrorists killed fewer than 3,000 people and got the entire West to trash their hard-won civil liberties dating back to Magna Carta - liberties that hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people died over nearly (at the time) eight hundred years to preserve.
Of course, it's 2019, and Google is playing nice with authoritarians, so naturally I'm unable to find it.
One of those most frustrating times of my life was trying to explain to "conservatives" why the Patriot Act was both unnecessary to fight terrorism and a really, really bad idea because it limited the rights of Americans and nobody else. If the Democrats had introduced such legislation there would have been an across the board GOP meltdown of epic proportions.
Policing 101: profiling works.
But I guess they don’t teach that in the academies anymore.
The head of the TSA at the time was a Japanese American who was interned as a child so the whole "looks like a duck" thing was forever lost on him because he was a victim once too.
I love America ! So very much. We have our issues, but the USA is great more than not.
PB
The guy doing the search was a security contractor in Iceland, working for the TSA.
Regarding Muslims on my plane that were not searched, I know what Arabs look like and I speak fluent Arabic.
You seem to be missing my whole point.
What they are doing is total BS, and has ZERO to do with stopping an other 9-11. But you seem to think they are doing a good job which tells me you know nothing of real security, nor liberty.
Yeah I pushed back as hard as I could without going to jail, so what.
If we don't speak out about such abusive behavior in the name of security today. Then I promise you in the future when the people of what was once the greatest country in the history of the world will be nothing more than slaves to the government.
When asked about the Patriot Act, I stated on national radio I was against it as I knew in no time the FBI and other feds would use it against Americans in regular criminal prosecutions and I was correct.
Who knows maybe one day the fBI will go so far off the Constitution, that they will try to steal an election for one of the political party's.
Nope never mind that could never happen in the USA.
The fact that you cite an LE background and were traveling under an American passport and threatened an American TSA person is cause for outrage.
First of all TSA is not law enforcement, they are nothing more than a bunch of losers that could be real police officer and they will do nothing to stop the next hijacking.
TSA as it is the outrage.
Give us professional people, doing the correct things and I will support them 100%.
Interessstiiing....
You speak fluent Arabic and maybe look Arabic yourself. Who is to say they weren't on the ball? Just because you state you are a Jew? What if they got pulled and spoke excellent English too and stated they were non-Muslim and Americans too? Lots of depth to this rabbit hole.
Per TSA, they may not be sworn but YOU are/were. If I must subject to a pat-frisk prior to attending Federal or Circuit court and surrender my weapon then so be it. Because chances are the Bailiff wanding me in isnt sworn but no reason to get smart with them.
I see some mistakes here alright but not where you would like...
The guy doing the search was a security contractor in Iceland, working for the TSA.
Regarding Muslims on my plane that were not searched, I know what Arabs look like and I speak fluent Arabic.
You seem to be missing my whole point.
What they are doing is total BS, and has ZERO to do with stopping an other 9-11. But you seem to think they are doing a good job which tells me you know nothing of real security, nor liberty.
Yeah I pushed back as hard as I could without going to jail, so what.
If we don't speak out about such abusive behavior in the name of security today. Then I promise you in the future when the people of what was once the greatest country in the history of the world will be nothing more than slaves to the government.
When asked about the Patriot Act, I stated on national radio I was against it as I knew in no time the FBI and other feds would use it against Americans in regular criminal prosecutions and I was correct.
Who knows maybe one day the fBI will go so far off the Constitution, that they will try to steal an election for one of the political party's.
Nope never mind that could never happen in the USA.
Tell us again how much more free Israel is compared to the US?
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The TSA is a total joke. Security theater plain simple.
In 2015 The failure rate when tested by homeland security is 95%. They fail 95% of the time when tested and explosives, contraband, weapons, etc make it through 95% of the time...
In the most recent 2017 test, the failure rate was north of 85%, but they wouldn’t release the actual
Numbers, just that it was more than 85%...
And what’s the reaction from TSA about the abject failure their agency is?
“Stop reporting it, if people know we can’t stop them from getting stuff through, it puts more innocent people at risk...”
They aren’t making anyone safer. If you believe they are- you are foolish. Period.
I myself will only travel through commercial airports when it is absolutely necessary.
If anyone from my family were asked to be frisked we all know to object- HELL NO. We will not board the plane and we will utilize other means of travel if not in our home state, or just not go at all.
I’m not going to allow some drug using (check out the drug testing failure rate of TSA agents) mall cop wannabe stuff his hands down my pants, nor my wife’s nor my children’s.
I know a few TSA agents and they are all well aware of what a joke it all is.
If you think the TSA is stopping anything from happening- I’ve got a bridge for sale in Brooklyn, drop me a line.
On top of that- the TSA has created a large grouping of sheep in a small area for a potential terrorist to use as an easy target. It’s likely only a matter of time before we have a well planned attacking on the security checkpoint itself. Shooting fish in a barrel. The right day of travel, a bomb vest or multiple Molotov cocktails. It would be a nightmare and thousands would die.
More people drive rather than go through a potential TSA nightmare, and more people will die in traffic accidents as a statistical result.
One merely has to search for the copious amounts of info and documentation showing TSA misconduct and malfeasance. Including lots and lots of sexual assault.
Go check out the FOIA request at judicial watch.
It’s a rogue agency.
Oh and the best part- the TSA...REGULATES ITSELF!
For anyone who is a-okay with the TSA, why? It has been shown to be an abject failure over and over. So what is it that you believe is happening when a child gets his dingus grouped, an attractive blond 20 something gets her nipples pinched and ass groped or an elderly woman has to remove her adult diaper?
They haven’t stopped one single credible threat. Nada.
When folks who want to get shit through have been shown to do so with a rate that totally destroys any reasoned defense of such bullshit!
Why go through the motions of the BS? How can you even begin to defend such a failure of an organization and how can you believe they are doing anything to make you or anyone else safer when all the metrics and data speak otherwise?
It reminds me of the anti gunners pushing gun control. Even though the stats don’t back a damned thing they say, “it’s for the children” and “safety” and ... fvck it’s barely even worth discussing it anymore- people are such sheep that accept whatever intrusion as long as things are still convenient enough for them...cucks...
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-26-19, 23:22
On top of that- the TSA has created a large grouping of sheep in a small area for a potential terrorist to use as an easy target. It’s likely only a matter of time before we have a well planned attacking on the security checkpoint itself. Shooting fish in a barrel. The right day of travel, a bomb vest or multiple Molotov cocktails. It would be a nightmare and thousands would die.
Always wondered what would happen if a terrorist with a vest got scanned- and they let you out of the machine before the scan comes back.... awkward...
If the grievance is that the TSA is security theater that violates our civil rights without a single merit, then they are well-founded.
Threatening an agent of the Gestapo isn't morally wrong, it's merely stupid.
The Gestapo thing is really kind of over-the-top. It isn't as if he was walking down the street and they stopped him and asked for papers.
And by the way, I agree totally with this sentiment: 19 terrorists killed fewer than 3,000 people and got the entire West to trash their hard-won civil liberties dating back to Magna Carta - liberties that hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people died over nearly (at the time) eight hundred years to preserve.
The problems with comparing Israel to the United States in terms of civil rights, transportation security, etc. go beyond just the difference in overall population and passenger density at airports. My take is that the Israeli's give up civil rights in return for the Government protecting them.
That includes at the ariport and in the right to keep and to bear arms. Former military folks like Yoni haven't nearly as much problem possessing firearms as does the average citizen:
They must ask the state for a license, are permitted only one gun at a time, and must even ask for permission to sell their gun. And the Firearms Licensing Department is no rubber stamp: Roughly 40 percent of requests are rejected.
...as the Public Security Ministry explains on its website, Israeli law “does not recognize a right to bear arms, and anyone wanting to do so must meet a number of requirements, including a justified need to carry a firearm.”
Israelis are limited to just 50 bullets in their possession at any given time. They must shoot or return old bullets before they can buy new ones, a process that can only take place at tightly regulated shooting ranges where each bullet’s sale is carefully registered.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/comparing-america-to-israel-on-gun-laws-is-dishonest-and-revealing/
The minimum age for gun ownership in Israel is 27 years, or 21 years if served in the military
In Israel, gun owners must re-apply and re-qualify for their firearm licence every three years
Licensed firearm owners in Israel are permitted to possess one firearm per licence
Licensed firearm owners in Israel are permitted to possess a limited quantity of ammunition
https://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/israel
And, I would imagine if you are an Arab citizen of Israel (20% of the population) your chances of getting a permit are nill.
So there is quite a difference in regulations and mindset on the role of government between our two countries. I would think much of it stems from being somewhat on a constant war footing and as a result accepting governmental intrusion in return for governmental protection. Of course, this is night and day from the United States.
Policing 101: profiling works.
But I guess they don’t teach that in the academies anymore.
Actually, not true in Academies that have a strong background in legal instruction.
Profiling per se is not illegal, using a profile as the SOLE basis to stop a vehicle or person is illegal.
The problem with profiling is that some people apply it mindlessly - cops stop black's or hispanic's because they are black or hispanic and the fat, middle-aged, white guy with a whole boat load of dope drives right by at two miles over the limit, running overload springs.
At the airport every Arab-looking dude gets a flashlight up their rear, and Jihad Johnny (since we've been talking about him) sails right through.
And, my good sir, I'll bet you are a fan of profiling primarily because you don't think you'll be too much inconvenienced. You'd be screaming just as loud as other folks if it happened to you.
I recently flew from Atlanta to Philly. My experience was similar to Yoni’s. I got the TSA treatment as well.
So, I’m behind a man who appeared to be of middle eastern decent and 4 burkah clad women. The man tells the screeners as he steps up that he will not allow himself or any of the 4 women to be subjected to anything other than stepping through the machine or he will file complaints for racial profiling. All 5 just walked through the scanner without even stopping and not a word was said. I go through the scanner then they ask me to step aside for additional screening. “You gotta be fvckin kidding” was obviously a threat and shortly after 3 more armed TSA personnel arrive. A lot of time was spent checking my groin area. When it was over I asked why I was selected for enhanced screening and was told that I “fit a profile”. Obviously blonde haired, green eyed, white males in their early 40’s are a threat to national security.
I know it’s tasteless, but at least I got to fart on one of the agents while they were checking my backside. Under normal circumstances I’d have gone to a restroom but nope, not this time. Small victories.
So if Israel is a bastion of personal liberty and right-thinking; can I go buy an AR15 and some mags as a private citizen, can I open up a new place of worship with no surveillance or scrutiny, and may I be openly and publicly critical of the government there?
Because in America I can do all those things. I've been pat down so much in life and not once did I take it personal. Cooperation and comity gets you through faster.
Actually, not true in Academies that have a strong background in legal instruction.
Profiling per se is not illegal, using a profile as the SOLE basis to stop a vehicle or person is illegal.
The problem with profiling is that some people apply it mindlessly - cops stop black's or hispanic's because they are black or hispanic and the fat, middle-aged, white guy with a whole boat load of dope drives right by at two miles over the limit, running overload springs.
At the airport every Arab-looking dude gets a flashlight up their rear, and Jihad Johnny (since we've been talking about him) sails right through.
And, my good sir, I'll bet you are a fan of profiling primarily because you don't think you'll be too much inconvenienced. You'd be screaming just as loud as other folks if it happened to you.
Profiling works both ways.
When I was one of the few "white guys" in a downtown Ft. Lauderdale neighborhood I was constantly profiled and assumed to be there to "buy crack." Most black kids sold crack, most white people in the area were buying crack.
I was one of the few exceptions, and I got profiled constantly. Got to the point where I knew almost every area officer personally before it stopped happening.
Profiling works both ways.
When I was one of the few "white guys" in a downtown Ft. Lauderdale neighborhood I was constantly profiled and assumed to be there to "buy crack." Most black kids sold crack, most white people in the area were buying crack.
I was one of the few exceptions, and I got profiled constantly. Got to the point where I knew almost every area officer personally before it stopped happening.
Actually, you kind of prove my point - you are mentioning that you were stopped because you were a white guy.
No different then a trooper stopping you on I-70 in Kansas because you are black and driving an out of state vehicle - the difference being the trooper probably had a minor speeding violation or illegal lane change (no signal) as a legal basis for the stop. while you may have been merely 'walking while white.'
If they were actually stopping you to talk with you they were doing it wrong. The profile should be a key for further non-intrusive investigation to develop reasonable suspicion for a stop.
In your case, white guy in a high traffic drug area, were they trying to bust you, or keep you safe?
If someone (an officer) walks alongside you and asks you 'Hey sir, would you mind talking with me for a moment?' The answer should be 'Not today, I'm in a hurry.' If you stop then it is a consensual stop.
That is the way it is supposed to work.
Actually, you kind of prove my point - you are mentioning that you were stopped because you were a white guy.
No different then a trooper stopping you on I-70 in Kansas because you are black and driving an out of state vehicle - the difference being the trooper probably had a minor speeding violation or illegal lane change (no signal) as a legal basis for the stop. while you may have been merely 'walking while white.'
If they were actually stopping you to talk with you they were doing it wrong. The profile should be a key for further non-intrusive investigation to develop reasonable suspicion for a stop.
In your case, white guy in a high traffic drug area, were they trying to bust you, or keep you safe?
If someone (an officer) walks alongside you and asks you 'Hey sir, would you mind talking with me for a moment?' The answer should be 'Not today, I'm in a hurry.' If you stop then it is a consensual stop.
That is the way it is supposed to work.
So I'm not saying that it's right, just saying that's sort of how it works.
And yes, I was absolutely profiled by race. But two things. First I understood that I fit the profile and everything that went along with it but I also know I didn't have a pocket full of crack and they could have piss tested me for 10 years and I'd always piss cleaner than most of the cops they worked with. Second, I wasn't a "professional victim" about it. There were times when I had places to be and things to do and knew they didn't have any real probable cause and I could let them know without sounding like a crackhead. And the other times I knew I could "name that tune" in about 5 notes so I'd be on my way in a few minutes regardless.
I knew what they were looking for, I just had to get them to the part where they figured out it wasn't me. I could have done the whole "illegal stop / my rights" song and dance, but then the whole thing would have lasted a lot longer and I knew LEOs can be pretty creative if they don't have anything more important to do.
It's also the nature of things when you are young, broke and living in high crime areas like downtown Ft. Lauderdale. They weren't trying to bust me, they weren't trying to keep me safe...they were trying to find out if I was there to buy crack or was otherwise a drug addict or problem. Regardless of the profile, they figured out what was what in fewer than 20 questions.
I would never hold Israel up as a model for rights and liberty.
To compare Israel to the USA, is a joke.
Israel was started by commies and we are still trying to grow out of that mind set.
USA was started by the greatest bunch of people that have ever come together for a common purpose to safe guard the G-D given rights of the individual.
I had a great time in Israel, but as I once made a choice to go there from the USA. I today make the choice to be in the USA. I own more guns in the USA than everyone in the same village I live in. Including types of guns that they can't buy in Israel.
My point is again, we should never give in too the government BS that goes after our rights.
I as American have the right to freedom of travel. I should not be subjected to such treatment. Especially since the people that belong to the same religion are not subjuct to the same treatment.
Today, I need a passport just to board an airplane as a Montana resident.
I am having trouble with that statement. A passport is not necessary to fly from point to point within the US. I fly within the US monthly and have made 3 international flights within the last 6 months.
*************************************
(General response) I get that Yoni is PO'd because white US citizens were singled out and muslims weren't, but perhaps TSA had reason to believe a white US citizen might be a problem that day. You'll never know and they will never tell. Air travel is much easier if one just rolls with it. It also helps to be both TSA PreCheck and Global Entry.
Did you notice any signaling?
https://www.dcclothesline.com/2015/04/14/busted-homosexual-tsa-screener-colluded-with-co-worker-to-grope-attractive-mens-genitals-in-denver/
I am having trouble with that statement. A passport is not necessary to fly from point to point within the US. I fly within the US monthly and have made 3 international flights withing the last 6 months.
*************************************
(General response) I get that Yoni is PO'd because white US citizens were singled out and muslims weren't, but perhaps TSA had reason to believe a white US citizen might be a problem that day. You'll never know and they will never tell. Air travel is much easier if one just rolls with it. It also helps to be both TSA PreCheck and Global Entry.
Perhaps he hasn't received a Real ID compliant drivers license yet?
Perhaps he hasn't received a Real ID compliant drivers license yet?
Good point.
The TSA is a total joke. Security theater plain simple.
In 2015 The failure rate when tested by homeland security is 95%. They fail 95% of the time when tested and explosives, contraband, weapons, etc make it through 95% of the time...
In the most recent 2017 test, the failure rate was north of 85%, but they wouldn’t release the actual
Numbers, just that it was more than 85%...
And what’s the reaction from TSA about the abject failure their agency is?
“Stop reporting it, if people know we can’t stop them from getting stuff through, it puts more innocent people at risk...”
They aren’t making anyone safer. If you believe they are- you are foolish. Period.
I myself will only travel through commercial airports when it is absolutely necessary.
If anyone from my family were asked to be frisked we all know to object- HELL NO. We will not board the plane and we will utilize other means of travel if not in our home state, or just not go at all.
I’m not going to allow some drug using (check out the drug testing failure rate of TSA agents) mall cop wannabe stuff his hands down my pants, nor my wife’s nor my children’s.
I know a few TSA agents and they are all well aware of what a joke it all is.
If you think the TSA is stopping anything from happening- I’ve got a bridge for sale in Brooklyn, drop me a line.
On top of that- the TSA has created a large grouping of sheep in a small area for a potential terrorist to use as an easy target. It’s likely only a matter of time before we have a well planned attacking on the security checkpoint itself. Shooting fish in a barrel. The right day of travel, a bomb vest or multiple Molotov cocktails. It would be a nightmare and thousands would die.
More people drive rather than go through a potential TSA nightmare, and more people will die in traffic accidents as a statistical result.
One merely has to search for the copious amounts of info and documentation showing TSA misconduct and malfeasance. Including lots and lots of sexual assault.
Go check out the FOIA request at judicial watch.
It’s a rogue agency.
Oh and the best part- the TSA...REGULATES ITSELF!
For anyone who is a-okay with the TSA, why? It has been shown to be an abject failure over and over. So what is it that you believe is happening when a child gets his dingus grouped, an attractive blond 20 something gets her nipples pinched and ass groped or an elderly woman has to remove her adult diaper?
They haven’t stopped one single credible threat. Nada.
When folks who want to get shit through have been shown to do so with a rate that totally destroys any reasoned defense of such bullshit!
Why go through the motions of the BS? How can you even begin to defend such a failure of an organization and how can you believe they are doing anything to make you or anyone else safer when all the metrics and data speak otherwise?
It reminds me of the anti gunners pushing gun control. Even though the stats don’t back a damned thing they say, “it’s for the children” and “safety” and ... fvck it’s barely even worth discussing it anymore- people are such sheep that accept whatever intrusion as long as things are still convenient enough for them...cucks...
Well said.
This has been my experience and are my sentiments as well.
I do not fly due to above, other than an emergency.
MountainRaven
05-27-19, 13:51
Perhaps he hasn't received a Real ID compliant drivers license yet?
Good point.
Montana doesn't issue REAL ID compliant drivers licenses. And I hope that Montana never does. I hope that every state in the Union realizes what a hock of shit REAL ID is and gets back on the freedom train.
But hope, as they say, springs a turtle.
Perhaps he hasn't received a Real ID compliant drivers license yet?
You don't need it yet. Alaska is just starting to be Real ID compliant and I fly all the time without a "Real ID".. I think the deadline is October 2020.
You want to talk about a bullshit fiasco, Real ID is one for sure. The wife and I are moving into a new house. We are living in an RV until we can move into the new place. My commercial driver's license is set to expire, so I go to the DMV. DMV says no new basic CDL's issued, they have to be Real ID now. They require something showing your social security number and proof of identity. No problem, I whip out my SS card and passport. Here is the kicker, I needed to also present proof of a residence. I don't have one.... Old house is in new owners name and my last utility bills are too old, new house isn't in my name so no utility bills, my mail comes to a rural route box so that's no good either. Lady asks where my RV is parked. I say at my business. I go to my office and luckily the internet bill and one of my five electric bills for that property are in my name not the business. They accept that. Now comes the even funnier part. Ten days later I get two Real Id driver's licenses. One with my rural route box address and one with my physical address of my store. Somehow the lady mis-entered my info and then tried to back out.. resulting in two ID's being issued. Really secure program I guess?
Fast forward a couple weeks and two of my employees who are drivers need to update their licenses as well. One lives on a parcel that has no address, just a U.S. Govt lot description. Not good enough. After a month he finds out the Alaska State Troopers can come out and check to make sure you live there and sign an affidavit. Second employee rents a place with all utilities included and no lease agreement (small town shit).. he can provide zero proof that he lives anywhere because he has no bills in his name. It's been 4 wks and he's still trying to figure it out.
All those 18 y.o. kids living at home.. no way to prove a residency either...
and on..and on... and on.
The TSA is a total joke. Security theater plain simple.
In 2015 The failure rate when tested by homeland security is 95%. They fail 95% of the time when tested and explosives, contraband, weapons, etc make it through 95% of the time...
In the most recent 2017 test, the failure rate was north of 85%, but they wouldn’t release the actual
Numbers, just that it was more than 85%...
And what’s the reaction from TSA about the abject failure their agency is?
“Stop reporting it, if people know we can’t stop them from getting stuff through, it puts more innocent people at risk...”
They aren’t making anyone safer. If you believe they are- you are foolish. Period.
I myself will only travel through commercial airports when it is absolutely necessary.
If anyone from my family were asked to be frisked we all know to object- HELL NO. We will not board the plane and we will utilize other means of travel if not in our home state, or just not go at all.
I’m not going to allow some drug using (check out the drug testing failure rate of TSA agents) mall cop wannabe stuff his hands down my pants, nor my wife’s nor my children’s.
I know a few TSA agents and they are all well aware of what a joke it all is.
If you think the TSA is stopping anything from happening- I’ve got a bridge for sale in Brooklyn, drop me a line.
On top of that- the TSA has created a large grouping of sheep in a small area for a potential terrorist to use as an easy target. It’s likely only a matter of time before we have a well planned attacking on the security checkpoint itself. Shooting fish in a barrel. The right day of travel, a bomb vest or multiple Molotov cocktails. It would be a nightmare and thousands would die.
More people drive rather than go through a potential TSA nightmare, and more people will die in traffic accidents as a statistical result.
One merely has to search for the copious amounts of info and documentation showing TSA misconduct and malfeasance. Including lots and lots of sexual assault.
Go check out the FOIA request at judicial watch.
It’s a rogue agency.
Oh and the best part- the TSA...REGULATES ITSELF!
For anyone who is a-okay with the TSA, why? It has been shown to be an abject failure over and over. So what is it that you believe is happening when a child gets his dingus grouped, an attractive blond 20 something gets her nipples pinched and ass groped or an elderly woman has to remove her adult diaper?
They haven’t stopped one single credible threat. Nada.
When folks who want to get shit through have been shown to do so with a rate that totally destroys any reasoned defense of such bullshit!
Why go through the motions of the BS? How can you even begin to defend such a failure of an organization and how can you believe they are doing anything to make you or anyone else safer when all the metrics and data speak otherwise?
It reminds me of the anti gunners pushing gun control. Even though the stats don’t back a damned thing they say, “it’s for the children” and “safety” and ... fvck it’s barely even worth discussing it anymore- people are such sheep that accept whatever intrusion as long as things are still convenient enough for them...cucks...
^^^ This times 1000
There are many reasons I hate to fly commercially. TSA bullshit is near the top of the list. If I have a choice, I drive or I don't go.
Yoni is absolutely correct.
Swabbing a baby, and old ladies that are American citizens .
You mean like this American citizen?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190528/228fa1b0c7bb58b2eae67a549ae522da.jpg
My nephew works for TSA is Dallas. I tell people he is a drug-riddled, emaciated whore of a man who performs sex acts for drugs and money. It's less embarrassing.
To hear him talk the TSA is single-handedly keeping the skies safe from throngs of terrorist evil-doers.
TSA = Thousands Standing Around.
I actually worked as an LEO at a major airport before and after 9-11. TSA is absolutely no more effective than private security was and is much less efficient. Anyone who actually believes TSA is protecting America or even the portion of it that travels via commercial air is without a doubt part of the 50% of the population with a below average IQ.
Since the vast majority that got bagged were American passports, I am looking into the legality of having a different countries passport in the same name as my American passport and book travel on that passport but carry my American with me to go through immigration.
If you do that, you will get the deluxe plan.
Anyone who actually believes TSA is protecting America or even the portion of it that travels via commercial air is without a doubt part of the 50% of the population with a below average IQ.
I certainly don't believe it, but I am not going to let it stop me from flying.
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-28-19, 12:05
You mean like this American citizen?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190528/228fa1b0c7bb58b2eae67a549ae522da.jpg
Neither an old lady or a baby- and someone with Yemen and Afghani stamps (or at least travel) and known anti-US activity. That should be enough to get some bells ringing.
Neither an old lady or a baby- and someone with Yemen and Afghani stamps (or at least travel) and known anti-US activity. That should be enough to get some bells ringing.Not talking about him specifically but but the picture on the right doesn't scream terrorist.
Interessstiiing....
You speak fluent Arabic and maybe look Arabic yourself. Who is to say they weren't on the ball? Just because you state you are a Jew? What if they got pulled and spoke excellent English too and stated they were non-Muslim and Americans too? Lots of depth to this rabbit hole.
Per TSA, they may not be sworn but YOU are/were. If I must subject to a pat-frisk prior to attending Federal or Circuit court and surrender my weapon then so be it. Because chances are the Bailiff wanding me in isnt sworn but no reason to get smart with them.
I see some mistakes here alright but not where you would like...
TSA personnel are sworn, but do not have powers of arrest unless they're FAMS/OLE.
The problem with profiling is that some people apply it mindlessly - cops stop black's or hispanic's because they are black or hispanic and the fat, middle-aged, white guy with a whole boat load of dope drives right by at two miles over the limit, running overload springs.
And, my good sir, I'll bet you are a fan of profiling primarily because you don't think you'll be too much inconvenienced. You'd be screaming just as loud as other folks if it happened to you.
LOL, if every criminal were as smart as they think they are, we'd never catch any criminals!
Some of you crack me up. Yoni you said you know Arabic, maybe you look like an Arab, maybe they were switched on.
Believe me I don't look like an Arab and even if I did. What about the other 30 to 40 Americans that all looked white middle class.
You pull a picture of a traitor to his country and you go . American like him, ha we got Yoni now.
Nope, that idiot could never have got passed even these idiots in Iceland. Not to even speak of Israeli airport security.
Tell you what if some of you are willing to put up with this agency, playing at security and it makes you feel good. Then no honest discussion of the Constitution and proper airline security can tke place.
My company currently holds contracts with 6 different Nations, because of our knowledge on security and intelligence. But to some of you here, TSA knows better than the CEO of a much wanted company.
That is fine with me, enjoy the TSA. By the end of the summer I will never deal with them again.
Some of you crack me up. Yoni you said you know Arabic, maybe you look like an Arab, maybe they were switched on.
Believe me I don't look like an Arab and even if I did. What about the other 30 to 40 Americans that all looked white middle class.
You pull a picture of a traitor to his country and you go . American like him, ha we got Yoni now.
Nope, that idiot could never have got passed even these idiots in Iceland. Not to even speak of Israeli airport security.
Tell you what if some of you are willing to put up with this agency, playing at security and it makes you feel good. Then no honest discussion of the Constitution and proper airline security can tke place.
My company currently holds contracts with 6 different Nations, because of our knowledge on security and intelligence. But to some of you here, TSA knows better than the CEO of a much wanted company.
That is fine with me, enjoy the TSA. By the end of the summer I will never deal with them again.I pull a picture of some random American white guy who happened to be a traitor. Can you tell who's who simply by their citizenship?
You still haven't responded to how you would keep air travel safe except to "Israel". Which means exactly what?
Tell you what if some of you are willing to put up with this agency, playing at security and it makes you feel good. Then no honest discussion of the Constitution and proper airline security can tke place.
I tolerate them because I have to as I am not willing to give up air travel. The waste of time and tax dollars doesn't make me feel good. I have read a lot of your posts and looked forward to them, but you seem to think all of the US should give up air travel in protest. Sorry, but that is not going to happen. Maybe a more rational suggestion would be more welcome?
I fully acknowledge we need security for planes. But the screeners must be diligent and highly trained.
I will not go into the nuts and bolts on an open. Forum.
But how many blond haired blue eyed girlfriends of terrorist have we caught through the decades that we have done proper screening?
100% of them.
The program can be scaled up and it will work in the USA. I know of at least 1 airport in the USA using Israeli methods.
I o ly endorse things Israeli that are better than other odeas.
Condition 3 makes sense for under trained soldiers and police. I dont include police or dedicated civilians in the USA as ones that would benefit from the traditional so called Israeli method.
First of all I was on the flight on my American passport, the one I got by being born in the USA.
Second regarding Israeli methods they can be up scaled to meet American needs.
Third, the people were contractors to the TSA. All the posters on the wall were TSA USA.
Lastly, ost of you seem to accept this as what should be normal. I have no doubt you will do the same thing when guns are outlawed in the USA.
Sorry to hear of the invasive TSA procedures. It must vary by country. Coming home from Frankfurt one time I was flagged for secondary search. The German security crew seemed apologetic about the whole thing and it was very cursory—absolute minimum to check the TSA box.
The frustrating thing is you have little recourse to bad attitude TSA. Make any resistance and they threaten you with airport police. Once in line you can not opt out or you will be detained.
Like you, members of my family (mostly females) have been secondary searched at least twice each, and each time I see hijabs and other Muslim garbed passenger pass through unmolested and can’t recall if I have ever seen a person of any color SS’ed. But old people, kids, and lots of attractive females seem to get flagged. There is no way the flagging is random. I’ve seen a whole crowd of middle easterners pass through without a second glance and my 62 yr old wife get flagged.
I fly as little as possible now, been four years since our last trip to Europe. No plans to go again. Business travel was great because we flew chartered air shuttle to/from small airports with no TSA screening at all.
Seem like their actions are mostly theatrics.
It is. They said as much when TSA was set up. It was to “make travelers feel safer”, not be safer. For many years while passengers were being molested, $8/hr workers were tailgating through security doors and ramps had virtually no security.
The philosophy seems to be: make the traveler endure the worst restrictions and they will assume all aspects are just as strictly controlled.
Meanwhile we are still giving bargain basement flight school training to anyone and everyone around the world, Muslims from ME, and Chinese getting initial training so they can return to become fighter pilots. Our skies still are filled with potential flying bombs from any number of foreign airlines, private jets, air freighters, etc. the TSA fondling is a lot of pain and show for a fraction of the threat.
My company currently holds contracts with 6 different Nations, because of our knowledge on security and intelligence. But to some of you here, TSA knows better than the CEO of a much wanted company.
That is fine with me, enjoy the TSA. By the end of the summer I will never deal with them again.
Yoni - is it possible they profiled you because of the stamps on your passport? Obviously don't know where you were coming from.
You still haven't responded to how you would keep air travel safe except to "Israel". Which means exactly what?
Nothing magic - just time consuming and very expensive to implement on the scale of U.S. air travel.
There are a lot more armed folks running around who can get into your business a little bit more than the average American is used to.
Are you used to having your car stopped and checked before you get to parking? Get used to it in Israel
Expect to have at least one face to face conversation with an security screener regarding your travel plans and recent activities. These folks are trained in interview techniques and can recognize signs of deception which would require more conversation, etc. Generally it doesn't take too long, a couple minutes.
Essentially, it is a matter of scale - as I've mentioned before at least 25 American airports have more passenger traffic each year than all of Israel combined. Those 25 airports, combined, handled more than a BILLION passengers in 2016, compared to less than 23 million passengers in Israel.
Yoni - is it possible they profiled you because of the stamps on your passport? Obviously don't know where you were coming from.
No because I keep my American passport clean. I use the American passport for travel to EU and one other place and that is it. When I get to the other place, I put my American passport in the safe and takeout a passport from somewhere else for travel to crazy places. When I am done I repeat the process in reverse.
Been doing trade craft a long time, it wasn't the stamps in my passport.
Sounds like your just mad you didn’t get special treatment that you felt you should have been entitled to yoni
Also did you really say tradecraft? Really?
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Montana doesn't issue REAL ID compliant drivers licenses. And I hope that Montana never does. I hope that every state in the Union realizes what a hock of shit REAL ID is and gets back on the freedom train.
But hope, as they say, springs a turtle.I personally don't see the issue with Real ID... Its just a validated DL ID, rather than the previous non-validated ones which could have bogus addresses, etc.
The only difference is it's difficult to get a Real ID DL with fake/questionable info.
Maybe your state does not have an issue with bogus DL info??? If you have a large population of illegals it's an issue.
I personally don't see the issue with Real ID... Its just a validated DL ID, rather than the previous non-validated ones which could have bogus addresses, etc.
The only difference is it's difficult to get a Real ID DL with fake/questionable info.
Maybe your state does not have an issue with bogus DL info??? If you have a large population of illegals it's an issue.
Considering the disparity in license requirements and the physical security features or lack there of it’s not a bad thing. I’ve seen some states DL I swear were was made in Microsoft paint.
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Considering the disparity in license requirements and the physical security features or lack there of it’s not a bad thing. I’ve seen some states DL I swear were was made in Microsoft paint.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
My two oldest sons started driving this year, they just have a permit right now. When they were done with their initial tests they got a printed paper permit that I could have done at home, and their "hard card" is abysmal, I definitely could have made that at home.
For all of the fears of Big Brother and big government, I'm okay with Real ID if done correctly.
My two oldest sons started driving this year, they just have a permit right now. When they were done with their initial tests they got a printed paper permit that I could have done at home, and their "hard card" is abysmal, I definitely could have made that at home.
For all of the fears of Big Brother and big government, I'm okay with Real ID if done correctly.Today my carry permit is like a library card that I can do at home. However, when I first got my permit in 2001 it was a piece of paper with a black and white photocopy of my face taken from my drivers license. I was told to get it laminated so it wouldn't get destroyed in my wallet. A teenager with a typewriter could have made that permit
I grumbled, but as I looked into it I realized that it just improved the integrity of the driver's license as a form of ID.
Stories abound of people with driver's licenses in a dozen or more States, all claiming residency.
I'm sure states can vary even in this, ours was pretty reasonable and what they would accept as a proof of address.
I'll turn it around, why should a state give you a resident DL if you cannot show in some form that you own, are renting, or have some permanent address in the state. (IE: a tax document with local address)
It's not like you're required to have a driver's license, but if you are going to have one I don't have a problem with you having to prove you're a legit resident.
I personally don't see the issue with Real ID... Its just a validated DL ID, rather than the previous non-validated ones which could have bogus addresses, etc.
The only difference is it's difficult to get a Real ID DL with fake/questionable info.
Maybe your state does not have an issue with bogus DL info??? If you have a large population of illegals it's an issue.
The safe bet would be on who the person pursuing a fake id is as has always been the case.
I have had to prove I was born in the US for decades for various things. Illegals from South America (as just 1 example) with ID that looked like it was done by elementary school kids? Apparently not so much.
I grumbled, but as I looked into it I realized that it just improved the integrity of the driver's license as a form of ID.
Stories abound of people with driver's licenses in a dozen or more States, all claiming residency.
I'm sure states can vary even in this, ours was pretty reasonable and what they would accept as a proof of address.
I'll turn it around, why should a state give you a resident DL if you cannot show in some form that you own, are renting, or have some permanent address in the state. (IE: a tax document with local address)
It's not like you're required to have a driver's license, but if you are going to have one I don't have a problem with you having to prove you're a legit resident.
I'm not aware of anyone who actually thinks Real ID is a bad idea. More that it's a blatant violation of states rights under the 10th Amendment. I still have heartburn over that, even if I do agree with the security measures being implemented.
I just wish it was extended to voting requirements and the ID's were no fee for that purpose. :(
SomeOtherGuy
05-29-19, 09:48
Like you, members of my family (mostly females) have been secondary searched at least twice each, and each time I see hijabs and other Muslim garbed passenger pass through unmolested and can’t recall if I have ever seen a person of any color SS’ed. But old people, kids, and lots of attractive females seem to get flagged. There is no way the flagging is random. I’ve seen a whole crowd of middle easterners pass through without a second glance and my 62 yr old wife get flagged.
Purely hypothetical, what if someone dressed up their family in hijab / etc. for travel? Fashion is a choice, etc.
SomeOtherGuy
05-29-19, 09:51
Considering the disparity in license requirements and the physical security features or lack there of it’s not a bad thing. I’ve seen some states DL I swear were was made in Microsoft paint.
You should see what a genuine FAA-issued pilot's license from the late 90's looks like. Not to mention I'm on my third CPL and have yet to receive one that wasn't a partially hand-written card laminated on a desktop machine. (I will finally get a DL-style CPL when I renew it again next year; that part of the state is catching up with 1980's tech.)
I'm not aware of anyone who actually thinks Real ID is a bad idea. More that it's a blatant violation of states rights under the 10th Amendment. I still have heartburn over that, even if I do agree with the security measures being implemented.
I just wish it was extended to voting requirements and the ID's were no fee for that purpose. :(
I'd have no issue with a Real ID if I could simply walk in with my old driver's license and my passport and walk out with the Real ID. After all, for those not having a Real ID for identification purposes you can use your passport. I have a huge issue with the government (state or fed) telling me I have to live somewhere permanently and tell them where that is. It is totally possible to be a good citizen, have a passport, and not reside permanently somewhere.
I'd have no issue with a Real ID if I could simply walk in with my old driver's license and my passport and walk out with the Real ID. After all, for those not having a Real ID for identification purposes you can use your passport. I have a huge issue with the government (state or fed) telling me I have to live somewhere permanently and tell them where that is. It is totally possible to be a good citizen, have a passport, and not reside permanently somewhere.
Agreed!
I'd have no issue with a Real ID if I could simply walk in with my old driver's license and my passport and walk out with the Real ID. After all, for those not having a Real ID for identification purposes you can use your passport. I have a huge issue with the government (state or fed) telling me I have to live somewhere permanently and tell them where that is. It is totally possible to be a good citizen, have a passport, and not reside permanently somewhere.I'm kinda confused by this. Don't you have to have an address on your DL? Isn't that a permanent address? If/when you move the address changes and the new one becomes the permanent one?! Am I missing something?
There are several states that have pretty loose/non-existent residency requirements for things like vehicle registration.
For example, if you want to tag an MX bike you've put a light kit on, form an LLC in -------.
DL's are probably different IDK.
One problem with Real ID that women have is they have to prove name changes. My bud's wife is the Clerk of our District Court and her clerks were kept busying with women showing up to get certified copies of divorce papers, etc.
You have to have three things:
- Prove who you are
- Prove where you live really, residency)
-Your social security number
I don't like the SSN aspect, but we lost that battle decades ago.
Personally, if you can't provide some proof of residence/perm address, why would a state have any reason to issue a driver's license?
Not a resident? Use the driver's license from where you are resident.
It's almost the definition of resident to have a permanent address.
I would consider any kind of title to real property sufficient Even If just a landlot number. Same for utility bill, the tax return with the address, etc Georgia will take any of 10 or more different items like that. Tax return can also be used for the social security validation.
yeah I can sorta see the states rights aspect but this is trivial in the scale of the overall states rights violations.
we are grumbling about the TSA being ineffective and in the same breath complaining that attempts to improve the integrity of acceptable identification methods is somehow offensive.
I have flown with a paper temporary DL due to renewal and the TSA agent properly questioned it. (Though I keep a passport and had it handy just in case)
Back to drivers license, sit in traffic court sometime and see the sheer volume of illegal aliens driving without a license, most of them with DUI charges, and most of them repeat offenders.
Not that real ID is going to stop that, but it will make it easier for them to charge offenders rather than someone being able to present a fake driver's license as needed.
Where in the US is it currently legal to falsely identify yourself?
Where in the US is it currently legal to falsely identify yourself?
Illegal and uncatchable are two different things. If you have false source documents that pass low level scrutiny, then you're going to able to illegitimately obtain real documents with which to establish a fully passable false identity. Anyone can make a forged or fake document, but establishing a passable false identity is on a whole other level.
The big problem lies in how many things we expect a state issued DL to do. It's expected to establish identity, access to services such as in this case air travel, and serves as a basis for taxes levied. Just like the SSN was only ever supposed to support federal taxes and benefits under that law, it now serves as a universal identifier for federal, state, local and even private services. It was never designed for that and is poorly suited to perform all those roles.
Another real problem lies in capability. Some agencies now have equipment that can detect a false ID with a pretty high level of accuracy. None of them can detect a false identity supported with a real ID issued by a government agency. It also takes more than a blacklight and loupe to manually detect quality fake ID's these days too. Sure most of the ones created for underage alcohol consumption are easy, but false documents for work authorization or access to sensitive areas are on another level entirely. It takes a lot of training and practice to detect those and even then, not every individual is well suited to the task.
Real ID isn't a solution, it's just another countermeasure that makes the criminal's objective more difficult.
So since it isn't a solution, what will be the next step when it fails?
So since it isn't a solution, what will be the next step when it fails?
Undoubtedly a massive violation of the Constitution, which will make the Patriot Act look like child's play. :(
The_War_Wagon
05-29-19, 18:27
TSA dipshiites are the reason I quit flying 14 years ago. :mad:
http://thepeoplescube.com/images/TSA_Logo_Scan_Glove.gifhttp://thepeoplescube.com/images/TSA_Logo_Scan_1.gif
I can't wait until Occasional-Cortex finishes her Transatlantic Railroad. :rolleyes: Maybe I could still see Luther's Germany, before the mohammedans trash it all...
I'm going to have to insist you don't insult the future mother of my children, sir, lest there be fisticuffs
Different rules in Europe than in the US. Sounds like Icelandic version of the TSA.
In 2010 I was sitting at my gate in the Copenhagen airport waiting for a Continental flight to Newark, NJ. Was looking at all the international carriers out the window so I started taking some pictures. Within a short time I was approached by Danish Plain Clothes Secret Police -- Politiets Efterretningstjeneste (PET), a modern version of the GESTAPO. They told me I needed to stop taking pictures and threatened arrest if I didn't either surrender the SD card or erase the images. The images of the planes were erased.
Europe is not free compared to what we have in the US.
Purely hypothetical, what if someone dressed up their family in hijab / etc. for travel? Fashion is a choice, etc.
Yes you can imagine anything.
In reality, I’ve never heard of such a thing. Maybe in your locale hijabs and burkas are fashionable for non-Muslims. Maybe I will try the burka next time.
Diamondback
05-30-19, 01:41
Undoubtedly a massive violation of the Constitution, which will make the Patriot Act look like child's play. :(
And doubtless a pre-written "solution awaiting its problem" just like the Patriot Act was.
I'm kinda confused by this. Don't you have to have an address on your DL? Isn't that a permanent address? If/when you move the address changes and the new one becomes the permanent one?! Am I missing something?
Up until my multi-hour fiasco of renewing my CDL, my driver's license showed my MAILING address, which is a mailbox (in a group of mailboxes) at the end of a rural road (just like millions of other Americans). My physical address does not receive mail service in any way. My new house is the same way. To get a Real ID you have to have a documented PHYSICAL address, which I think is completely wrong and un-American. Friends of my parents are basically renting spaces for a month in RV parks and using the receipt to prove a physical address even though they actually aren't even parking their RV there. They receive their mail at a UPS store and forward the mail wherever in the U.S. they happen to stop long enough to get it. In most states a letter from a homeless shelter, signed and notarized, can be used to prove some sort of physical address if you happen to be homeless. There's enough loop holes already that the criminals have figured out ways around it, and your average citizen that doesn't fit the model of an urban or suburban city dweller is basically screwed out of hours or days of their lives trying to update a license they've possessed for years or even decades.
My employee that is having the biggest issue is on his THIRD 150 mile round trip to try and figure out how to fix his license. Did I mention you cannot drive to my state capital either, where the main office that figures this crap out is located?
The_War_Wagon
05-30-19, 07:44
I'm going to have to insist you don't insult the future mother of my children, sir, lest there be fisticuffs
No.
https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/cc305/The_War_Wagon/cortex20_zpsg1ta7dba.jpg?width=590&height=370&fit=bounds
This thread is comical. The TSA is hilariously incompetent. Terribly incompetent. Worthless. But air travel is not a Constitutional right. I avoid non-work air travel like the plague. If you are traveling for pleasure, get the pre-check, and prepare yourself for theater.
But air travel is not a Constitutional right.
I 100% disagree. Our right to free travel is protected by the Constitution.
I 100% disagree. Our right to free travel is protected by the Constitution.
By this logic healthcare is a "right".
Your Right is to travel, it doesn't specify how you travel.
Furthermore, if you get your own plane, pilots, et al; you no longer have to deal with TSA. As we speak, some rock star or magnate is flying on a G6 with naked girls running around, guns and cocaine everywhere, and other illicit things happening while everyone else cucks and uses shudder business class.
Healthcare is not a right, it is a responsibly.
I want a G6, and kiss TSA goodbye forever
This thread is comical. The TSA is hilariously incompetent. Terribly incompetent. Worthless. But air travel is not a Constitutional right. I avoid non-work air travel like the plague. If you are traveling for pleasure, get the pre-check, and prepare yourself for theater.
I won't fly unless it's for work and I cannot avoid it. Last work trip I drove from Alabama to Chicago and beat our director (who flew) to the hotel. Trip before I flew to El Paso and had to overnight in DFW thanks to plane problem and overbooked flights.
To me the general airline attitude towards anyone who doesn't fly 1st class is worse than the TSA. It's like they are actively trying to drive people away.
My wife wants to go back to Europe and I am already steeling myself for the flight.
Andy
Where in the constitution does it mention the regulation of air travel as being a power delegated to the United States?
MountainRaven
05-31-19, 21:01
By this logic healthcare is a "right".
Your Right is to travel, it doesn't specify how you travel.
Furthermore, if you get your own plane, pilots, et al; you no longer have to deal with TSA. As we speak, some rock star or magnate is flying on a G6 with naked girls running around, guns and cocaine everywhere, and other illicit things happening while everyone else cucks and uses shudder business class.
This is like saying that the Constitution protects your right to keep and bear arms, but it doesn't specify which. So as long as you have arms - let's say swords and spears - your right to keep and bear arms is not being infringed on by that logic.
Diamondback
06-01-19, 01:53
I wouldn't fly commercial cattle-cars again even if I could Thanos-snap Testicle Squeezers Anonymous out of existence--my mother works for Boeing in IT, and every day I hear new horrors behind the scenes. If you saw the kind of rank incompetence in th people who do their IT infrastructure that she has to clean up after... sometimes I wonder how it is we don't lose birds more often.
Seem like their actions are mostly theatrics.
Ding, ding, ding!
Until they allow TSA agents to use common sense tools - like God forbid, racial profiling - then all of these "security searches" are nothing more than theatrics designed to make the public feel safe.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-01-19, 07:09
With the metric ass load of spying that the intel community does on people in and out of the US, but they still can't find the right people so that we don't all have to be either fondled or irradiated is crazy. So we get the surveillance state AND the blue glove foreplay- what a country.
Thought this new thread would be good to link in to this one.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?215819-Now-You-Don-t-Need-an-I-D-to-Fly
Diamondback
06-07-19, 22:49
Ding, ding, ding!
Until they allow TSA agents to use common sense tools - like God forbid, racial profiling - then all of these "security searches" are nothing more than theatrics designed to make the public feel safe.
Um, the preferred terms are "Statistical Profiling" and "Behavioral Analysis." :)
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