View Full Version : Record number of Americans behind on auto loans
So, don't buy a $50,000 pickup truck on Wal-Mart wages?
"A record 7 million Americans are 90 days or more behind on their auto loan payments, the Federal Reserve Bank of New York reported Tuesday, even more than during the wake of the financial crisis.
Economists warn that this is a red flag. Despite the strong economy and low unemployment rate, many Americans are struggling to pay their bills."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/02/12/record-million-americans-are-months-behind-their-car-payments-red-flag-economy/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8c52b45bbe32
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-04-19, 10:46
Manufacturing is way down too, and I can tell you that isn't just a number. I'm surprised that the MSM isn't talking this up ( or down) more.
People are fukkin retards.
I see all these morons driving 50k "mullet" trucks with lifts and thin tires on ghetto rims. Not surprising.
I’d wager a large percentage of these defaulters also got 60-72 month loans for their high dollar wheels.
A couple of other recent coal mine canary stories that keep me stocking up on ammo are the large numbers of people nearing retirement with zero money saved and the many who could not come up with a thousand bucks in an emergency without begging from others. Virtually all future if not current voters for tax redistribution.
I see the vehicles driving in and out of neighborhoods near me. Big disconnect between the vehicle expense (Big Beamers, MB's including G-wagons, high end lexus, escalades, etc) and the home price/neighborhood nature.
IE: Their car payments/leases are probably close to their home payments/rents.
Makes no sense to me.
People are fukkin retards.
I see all these morons driving 50k "mullet" trucks with lifts and thin tires on ghetto rims. Not surprising.
I was truck shopping awhile back and it was a total mindfvck what sticker was/is on new stuff. Like gtfo kinda pricing.
Granted I was looking at 3/4 ton diesels but even 1/2 ton gas jobs winds up being damn near a mortgage payment. It’s lunacy. And then pricing on a new Tahoe??? Fffffffff
I decided nah fam I’m going to run my accord until it dies.
I blame government, I blame cafe standards, etc
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Pickups and SUV's are the cash cows of the auto industry today.
ramairthree
06-04-19, 13:45
It’s not unusual for a young single guy to have a vehicle that between gas, car payment, and insurance is about 50% of their take home pay.
Young guys do dumb young guy stuff.
If they get married, have a kid, etc. before it is payed off,
Or continue to buy such high payment to income vehicles after that,
Things get out of hand.
It’s not just cars.
I see people with a tenth of my income buy more expensive phones more often, top available internet service, top expensive phone plans, max cable, have a dozen streaming services, bigger TVs, etc.
All things without any, or little to no future value.
sundance435
06-04-19, 14:44
I’d wager a large percentage of these defaulters also got 60-72 month loans for their high dollar wheels.
A couple of other recent coal mine canary stories that keep me stocking up on ammo are the large numbers of people nearing retirement with zero money saved and the many who could not come up with a thousand bucks in an emergency without begging from others. Virtually all future if not current voters for tax redistribution.
I did a 60 month loan because I can still get a better return on the money saved in payments vs. 3.75% borrowing rate. I have no idea how this "no retirement savings" thing is going to go. My guess is that it will hasten the arrival of a true welfare state. I just saw something that the average 60 year-old has about $120,000 saved for retirement. That's 5, maybe 6 years, if you really stretch it + social security, of living like a miser. It's no wonder people are working into their late 70's and early 80's.
If you knew the demographics involved you wouldnt feel bad. I know I dont.
Coal Dragger
06-04-19, 16:18
I used to work in the car business after I got out of the Corps. Even back in 2005-2006 people were doing remarkably dumb shit where income to debt on auto loans was concerned.
All the unnecessary tech on vehicles today has of course driven costs up, and manufacturers and their finance arms have responded by offering easy money for loan durations that are just lunacy. A correction is needed, and the blow shouldn’t be softened.
Right now I have one vehicle payment and about 2 years left on it. Not a big deal, just a fraction of our income and financed at 0% APR. My truck has been paid for since 2012 and I just keep driving it, no reason not to. Also financed it at 0% APR. I might buy a new truck in a few years if Toyota brings it with a Tundra redesign.
Some of the vehicles for sale today are just idiotic. For example pretty much every 3/4 ton and 1 ton diesel pickup truck is completely retarded for 95% of the people who buy them. They cost way too much, they’re not reliable or durable long term, and the towing performance is not exponentially better than a cheaper easier to maintain gasoline engine. Even for those who do tow all the time I have to wonder if stepping up to a medium duty truck or even a class 8 might not make more sense, considering that is tiny sliver of 3/4 ton or 1 Tim buyers who run loaded all the time.
Who’s your bet for advocating “forgiving truck payments”?
Another potential carrot on a stick for the left.....
I used to work in the car business after I got out of the Corps. Even back in 2005-2006 people were doing remarkably dumb shit where income to debt on auto loans was concerned.
All the unnecessary tech on vehicles today has of course driven costs up, and manufacturers and their finance arms have responded by offering easy money for loan durations that are just lunacy. A correction is needed, and the blow shouldn’t be softened.
Right now I have one vehicle payment and about 2 years left on it. Not a big deal, just a fraction of our income and financed at 0% APR. My truck has been paid for since 2012 and I just keep driving it, no reason not to. Also financed it at 0% APR. I might buy a new truck in a few years if Toyota brings it with a Tundra redesign.
Some of the vehicles for sale today are just idiotic. For example pretty much every 3/4 ton and 1 ton diesel pickup truck is completely retarded for 95% of the people who buy them. They cost way too much, they’re not reliable or durable long term, and the towing performance is not exponentially better than a cheaper easier to maintain gasoline engine. Even for those who do tow all the time I have to wonder if stepping up to a medium duty truck or even a class 8 might not make more sense, considering that is tiny sliver of 3/4 ton or 1 Tim buyers who run loaded all the time.
I couldn't agree more, most people have zero need for a 1 ton diesel. However, there is a place for 1 ton trucks in the commercial world. When stepping up to a medium duty truck, which usually use the same engine as the pickup, you get a HUGE penalty in fuel mileage. I own multiple trucks in pickup, medium duty and class 8's. The pickup towing a goose-neck out performs my medium duty in almost every scenario. Price is no different between the two, but I can comfortably drive my 1 ton without the trailer home every night. My medium duty truck is a 20' dump flatbed, it gets half the fuel mileage my Duramax gets and it can haul less than I can with the gooseneck. It excels at getting into tight places and dumping loads, so it stays in the fleet. My class 8's get 5mpg regardless of what they are doing, so unless they are heavily loaded, they aren't worth it. I can get 10mpg out of my Duramax towing 20K, so it gets the nod for lighter loads. I recognize I'm an anomaly in the pickup driving world.
Unfortunately, trucks of all types have increased in price faster than inflation since 2000, even class 8 trucks.
Coal Dragger
06-04-19, 23:34
I think Ford, and GM are aware of the unsustainable nature of their 3/4 ton and 1 ton diesel offerings, witness their development of larger gasoline engines for that segment as well as the medium duty chassis class.
They’re probably onto something, realistically a big V8 will do alright under a load and given the emissions crap on new diesels killing mileage and long term durability, the big gas V8 will probably outlast the new diesels.
The 7.3L gas V8 Ford is bringing seems like a good start, appears to be way overbuilt and made to work.
I think Ford, and GM are aware of the unsustainable nature of their 3/4 ton and 1 ton diesel offerings, witness their development of larger gasoline engines for that segment as well as the medium duty chassis class.
They’re probably onto something, realistically a big V8 will do alright under a load and given the emissions crap on new diesels killing mileage and long term durability, the big gas V8 will probably outlast the new diesels.
The 7.3L gas V8 Ford is bringing seems like a good start, appears to be way overbuilt and made to work.
We'll see. Once you tow with a high powered diesel it's hard to go back. HP is great, but torque rules when towing. That new 7.3 is slated for 500 ft lbs, but the 6.7 diesel makes almost twice that. The big weakness in the past was not giving us a great transmission behind the gas trucks. I'll admit that 7.3 makes me go hmmmm..
Coal Dragger
06-05-19, 02:55
I make a living pulling 19,000 ton trains around so believe me I understand the benefits of torque (well in our case tractive effort at the draw bar) getting a load moving. However, horsepower makes everything better and the more I have per ton, the better. At any rate diesel electric locomotives with medium speed diesels are a different animal.
Ford understands that fleet buyers could give two shits about how the vehicle feels or whether or not it is satisfying for the driver to operate. They care about the bottom line, and the bottom line is that fleets are increasingly not buying diesel work trucks. The diesel is too expensive to buy up front, too expensive to maintain long term, and has too much downtime in comparison to the gasoline offerings. My employer no longer buys diesel trucks for maintenance of way unless they’re of the class 8 size for example.
I don’t think official ratings are out yet for the Ford 7.3L, but I’m guessing that 500ft-Lbs is a conservative estimate. I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that we’re looking at around 550ft-Lbs, and 425-450hp depending on how well the heads will support airflow at higher RPM’s with a stock cam designed for low end torque production. Modern head designs that flow lots of air have been proven to still make good horsepower numbers up top even with mild cams, and I’m sure that the heads on this new engine are going to benefit from a lot of that know how. The internals are pretty much made to take boost, leading me to wonder if that is also in the works for other applications. Either way pistol oil squirters, forged rotating assembly, high durability rings, and the other heavy duty aspects of the engine should make a long lasting mill. Plus they wisely stuck with easy to maintain port fuel injection instead of DI, so servicing this engine should be a piece of cake to include the fuel system. I think Ford is going to sell a lot of these engines because it just makes sense.
Putting a good transmission behind it will also greatly widen the appeal, and 10 gear ratios is a lot of cogs to work with to keep the engine where it needs to be to do get stuff done.
I’m also going to guess that GM’s new 6.6L V8 gasoline engine with DI is going to be plenty capable and a lot more popular than the old 6.0 at least it will make a base model 2500 a lot more viable.
It’s not just cars.
I see people with a tenth of my income buy more expensive phones more often, top available internet service, top expensive phone plans, max cable, have a dozen streaming services, bigger TVs, etc.
All things without any, or little to no future value.
My wife and I have the highest income in our families, but we don't drive the flashiest cars, have the newest phones, biggest tv, etc.
Of course, my primer/powder/projectile/loaded ammo expenditures are crazy...
Andy
everready73
06-05-19, 08:06
People are crazy with high car payments. I have a 2011 chevy impala i bought used on 2012 for a good deal and low miles. It has been paid off for years and i am up to 175k miles and it is still going strong. My wife has a newer Mid size SUV, but that is the family car and i wanted something nice and safe. The payment isnt bad at all though.
I take the extra money and make sure i am maxing out my 401k every year and save/invest the rest
My wife and I have decent jobs and we are going on vacation to the outer banks next week. A girl I work with was asking how we can afford to take the whole family on vacation a few times a year. I told her priorities. She drives a brand new Grand Cherokee that was like 46k new. Her husband didnt want to be outdone and had to have a 50k truck. That is over 1.5k a month just in car payments I am assuming. Lots of money that could be spent on quality family activities or things you actually enjoy
If you knew the demographics involved you wouldnt feel bad. I know I dont.
They will never show that...........
I couldn't agree more, most people have zero need for a 1 ton diesel.
SNIP
Unfortunately, trucks of all types have increased in price faster than inflation since 2000, even class 8 trucks.
So the reality until recently is that if you needed a pickup, fuel mileage was crap. Case in point: I could tow a 2003 4x4 Tacoma or Frontier quad cab with my 2003 Cummins Ram 4x4 3500 and get the same mileage as they would have driving down the road unloaded.
Tow 1500-2000 lbs with a V8 chebbie/ford gasser and mileage dropped to mid single digits, with the tranny shifting on the freeway for small rolling hills. In my Cummins Ram it dropped 1 MPG and was loafing and stayed locked in OD.
Just no comparison. To their credit, my son just bought a 2019 Tacoma 4x4 quad cab, and it's average is 22 mpg, and he's seeing 25'ish on the highway on a regular basis. That's not unreasonable for a small truck. I'm also hearing similar for unloaded F-150's with the ecoboost, etc.
And yes, new diesel truck prices are stupidly high.
I think Ford, and GM are aware of the unsustainable nature of their 3/4 ton and 1 ton diesel offerings, witness their development of larger gasoline engines for that segment as well as the medium duty chassis class.
They’re probably onto something, realistically a big V8 will do alright under a load and given the emissions crap on new diesels killing mileage and long term durability, the big gas V8 will probably outlast the new diesels.
Really do not believe the gassers will outlast cummins diesels, even with the emissions stuff. Just not enough changes to the core engine, the emissions crap is stuff like particulate filters, etc.
They suck, but do not shorten life. EGR valves do shorten a bit if not well maintained.
We'll see. Once you tow with a high powered diesel it's hard to go back. HP is great, but torque rules when towing. That new 7.3 is slated for 500 ft lbs, but the 6.7 diesel makes almost twice that. The big weakness in the past was not giving us a great transmission behind the gas trucks. I'll admit that 7.3 makes me go hmmmm..
You really have to look at torque at typical highway RPM. That's the big lie in the GM/Ford diesel torque/HP claims, and also for gassers. Do the math to see what the RPM is at 65, and then look up torque.
And remember, optimal fuel mileage tends to be near torque peaks.
Not that gas engines can't be optimized for torque, they can (Pinzgauer 2.5l aircooled as an example). But it's at the expense of higher RPM/HP. The CVT's are starting to do some of this, with Nissan full sized cars and mid-sized crossovers getting 39-40 MPG with passengers at highway speeds.
Do I think people spend stupidly on big trucks? Yep, just like they do on $90k escalades, etc.
Is the fix to get rid of 2500 & 3500 diesels? Don't be silly. Not the problem, not the fix.
If anything, get rid of 2wd tundras and similar that are status vehicles, get below 20MPG unloaded, and never are used for real work.
Ironically, my 1999 K2500 with a 7.4 L V8 gets around 12 MPG pulling a loaded double axle enclosed cargo trailer down the highway (but maybe 13 MPG empty) and doesn't shift down 2 or 3 times to climb a hill.
It has been replaced by a 2018 K1500 with a 5.3 L V8 because it gets 20 MPG city/hwy and up to 26 MPG on the highway plus I just didn't need a 3/4 truck.
I will probably make my payments though...
Andy
Coal Dragger
06-05-19, 11:20
The emission control gear on newer Diesel engines will absolutely shorten the service life. Not necessarily the service life of the engine, but of the truck. Expensive repairs to keep the vehicle as a whole on the road will accelerate the scrapping/retirement of the vehicle.
The emission control gear on newer Diesel engines will absolutely shorten the service life. Not necessarily the service life of the engine, but of the truck. Expensive repairs to keep the vehicle as a whole on the road will accelerate the scrapping/retirement of the vehicle.
I've owned 8 diesels over a couple of decades. Still have/use 3. Of them, one had EGR stuff that was badly done and clearly shortened the service life. (2005 Jeep Liberty. Core engine/drivetrain was good. But EPA implementation was very bad)
I've specifically dodged particulate filters and diesel fluid, but what diesel mechanics tell me that if you don't hold off/bypass the purge cycles, they are not mtc issues. (this most recently on tractors, yes, they have to have them as well if over 25hp).
It's like a catalytic converter... early on was stupid expensive to replace. Over time, has become less of an issue, cheaper. I suspect DPF's will never be as cheap as cat's, but I've not known anyone who had to replace one. Maybe it happens, but I don't hear epidemics.
I still don't want them, but they don't shorten the life of the engine.
Core points on the stupidly high diesel truck prices ($60-70k) I see at dealers now are valid. They may be a fading breed.
Meanwhile, in the rest of the world, small diesels are the norm. I've driven some in Europe that I would not have guessed were diesel unless I knew what to look for. But drove like gassers.
The emission control gear on newer Diesel engines will absolutely shorten the service life. Not necessarily the service life of the engine, but of the truck. Expensive repairs to keep the vehicle as a whole on the road will accelerate the scrapping/retirement of the vehicle.
Absolutely. Owners of fleets bigger than mine have far bigger headaches with that type of maintenance than I do. For some reason, fleets up here are still buying diesels. One outfit doing work near me bought 85 new Ford diesels. I have an advantage of being a small operator and nobody checks emissions up here, so DPF deletes are pretty common even among small commercial operators.
Coal Dragger
06-05-19, 14:21
Modern engines of gas or diesel type that are well made seem to last roughly forever if they’re well made. I think there are now 2 Toyota Tundras used for oil field hot shot delivery that have logged 1 million miles on the original engines. More often than not the parts that fail on a vehicle causing retirement/scrapping are not engines. A gasoline or Diesel engine that sees regular oil changes, filter changes, and other periodic maintenance and isn’t abused is going to run way past the vehicle it’s powering. The damn things just don’t wear down internally like they used to, between metallurgy improvements, lubricant improvements, and computer aided design along with more rigorous manufacture testing it’s super rare to hear about a catastrophic failure in any internal combustion engine.
Looks like electric is the way of the future but it'll be some time before that technology replaces all internal combustion engines.
Lol. I buy “cheap” vehicles cash (entry-level luxuty cars with relatively high milage). Id rather spend money on stuff I enjoy.
Im a millenial, but its probably millenials.
Diesels are the way to go
It’s just all the emission bullshit that ruins them
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40 years of flat wages while the 0.1% garner nearly all the gains in productivity results in full employment and workers just barely getting by.
I guess this is the wrong thread for my $92k Ford F350 Limited. :-(
Coal Dragger
06-23-19, 23:03
Diesels are the way to go
It’s just all the emission bullshit that ruins them
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Current modern Diesel engines are a joke for the vast majority of buyers. They offer almost no economic advantage. For example:
https://youtu.be/T728x3Gkg98
Wow, 9,000 lb trailer and the difference in fuel mileage between a 1/2 ton with a gas V8 and a 3/4 ton with a turbo diesel is about .5 MPG. What a joke. If both fuels are $3.00/gallon that extra $9,000 for the diesel will be paid for in only around 450,000 miles given a $.02/mile operating cost advantage for the diesel. Well factor in the more expensive maintenance and DEF and it’s probably more expensive to run the diesel per mile. LOL. Stupid bro-dozers.
ramairthree
06-24-19, 01:45
Current modern Diesel engines are a joke for the vast majority of buyers. They offer almost no economic advantage. For example:
https://youtu.be/T728x3Gkg98
Wow, 9,000 lb trailer and the difference in fuel mileage between a 1/2 ton with a gas V8 and a 3/4 ton with a turbo diesel is about .5 MPG. What a joke. If both fuels are $3.00/gallon that extra $9,000 for the diesel will be paid for in only around 450,000 miles given a $.02/mile operating cost advantage for the diesel. Well factor in the more expensive maintenance and DEF and it’s probably more expensive to run the diesel per mile. LOL. Stupid bro-dozers.
Sure,
But having massive diesel torque at cruising RPMs towing serious weight through the mountains is very different than a similar HP, but much less torque, especially at cruising RPMs in a gas engine is very different, even if the MPG is similar.
Two things about trucks both bemuse and piss me off at the same time.
Watching dipshits in their half ton trucks towing far more than they should be safely.
Watching dipshits in their 3/4 ton diesels and often dualies towing a few thousand pounds of boat or their landscaping trailer.
It’s like half the guys are taking a 9mm grizzly hunting, and the other half are taking a .338 whitetail hunting.
I kind of wish their was a good 2/3 ton option.
Coal Dragger
06-24-19, 03:39
The Nissan Titan HD sort of fits that bill, but reviews of the truck are decidedly mixed.
As far as the advantage in power at lower engine operating speeds that a diesel enjoys for pulling serious weight on grades, I don’t deny there is an advantage. However, for most users a realistic analysis of what they use the vehicle for, even when they are towing, would show the diesel to be an illogical choice for the vast majority of buyers. Fact is the vast majority of pickups are not used a majority of the time pulling or hauling loads.
Just once I’d like to hear a buyer of one of the trucks just admit they bought the big stick diesel because they wanted it, even though they know it holds few real world daily operating advantages. Instead I invariably get to listen to some colleague of mine extolling the virtues of his new bro-dozer and how well it pulls his fishing boat the 4 times a year he gets to the lake that is 15 miles away, and how he needs the diesel to accomplish that task. Between the cost of the truck and the boat, it seems like very expensive fish to me.
Realistically I have no real need for a 6.2L V8 powered sedan. There is nowhere I can legally exploit the 415hp and 160+ mph top speed in this country. I don’t need that much power to pass other traffic safely, or to merge on the highway. That said I bought one anyway because I wanted it, and I enjoy it. I will not make up bullshit justifications for buying it though.
I love this article from Mr. Money Mustache on trucks:
https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2015/04/28/what-does-your-work-truck-say-about-you/
I love this article from Mr. Money Mustache on trucks:
https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2015/04/28/what-does-your-work-truck-say-about-you/
This article says a lot for the current generation and the love of the truck. A lot of foolish money is spent on trucks which could be spent better. I’ve always owned trucks and they rarely get used to their full potential. Currently I’m driving a F250 which is 12 years old. It was purchased used due to having access to a 5th wheel camper and the F150 made me uncomfortable. Also my children outgrew the half cab. I don’t trade vehicles every few years but drive them for ten or more years.
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That’s what is great about this country. Just like the other thread about gun companies marketing to posers, buying whatever car or truck or gun you want regardless of how you are going to use it is your business. Go for it and enjoy it. Just don’t expect anyone else to bail you out if you get in over your head financially.
ThirdWatcher
06-25-19, 05:06
I put my ‘12 Ram 3500 CTD SRW CCSB 4x4 to good use towing my travel trailer. Otherwise, I have a fifteen year old sedan that I’m perfectly happy driving around town most days. No car payments, paid my truck and my wife’s car off before retiring. Working towards being debt free (better late than never).
Pickup truck death....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYkQYDOGBAw
So, don't buy a $50,000 pickup truck on Wal-Mart wages?
"A record 7 million Americans are 90 days or more behind on their auto loan payments, the Federal Reserve Bank of New York reported Tuesday, even more than during the wake of the financial crisis.
Economists warn that this is a red flag. Despite the strong economy and low unemployment rate, many Americans are struggling to pay their bills."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/02/12/record-million-americans-are-months-behind-their-car-payments-red-flag-economy/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8c52b45bbe32
It's a sign that while unemplyment is low, a fair number of those jobs are probably shitty-low wage positions or "gig" jobs.
It's a sign that while unemplyment is low, a fair number of those jobs are probably shitty-low wage positions or "gig" jobs.
Another factor that is that today anyone with any income level can get financed for just about any vehicle.
Rifleman_04
06-25-19, 12:44
I love this article from Mr. Money Mustache on trucks:
https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2015/04/28/what-does-your-work-truck-say-about-you/
Mr. Money Mustache clearly hates America.
And the only people I see that drive mini vans for work vehicles are communists from Eastern Europe.
I got so annoyed at the incompetent finance company that bought the note on my truck, I paid it off 4.5 years early.
I remember the lots outside of Lejeune and Pendleton: "Low, low 21% financing!". A lot of the people who default are the same type of clientele: low-wage.
We pay cash for vehicles. Do I want the Land Rover? Hell, yeah. But I'm buying the 2010 Honda Odyssey. No debt.
Dr. Bullseye
06-25-19, 14:59
Where is Bernie on this? We need free pickup trucks. If student loans can be free, why not auto loans? FREE STUFF NOW!
You know that in Bernie world the gov't could just mandate a $100 minimum wage and presto chango in the magic kingdom of socialism everyone's money problems are solved.
I was truck shopping awhile back and it was a total mindfvck what sticker was/is on new stuff. Like gtfo kinda pricing.
Granted I was looking at 3/4 ton diesels but even 1/2 ton gas jobs winds up being damn near a mortgage payment. It’s lunacy. And then pricing on a new Tahoe??? Fffffffff
I decided nah fam I’m going to run my accord until it dies.
I blame government, I blame cafe standards, etc
No shit there. I just payed my GMC Sierra off in May. Essentially the same truck with the same options is ~ $8K more than 4 years ago. That's right around 4% per year increase in price, which exceeds inflation.
I don't do loans longer than 4 years so these $600-700 monthly payments are ridiculous for 5 or 6 years. Of course I always have an equity trade involved, so I'm not buying at full price.
ThirdWatcher
06-25-19, 20:31
... We pay cash for vehicles. Do I want the Land Rover? Hell, yeah. But I'm buying the 2010 Honda Odyssey. No debt.
That is the smart way to go.
I guess when I get passed by one of those overpriced toys it just brings it home how absolutely out of synch I am. And I just don't give a damn.
Now, the nice S&W Model 19-3 I recently picked up is a whole different deal.
ThirdWatcher
06-26-19, 20:25
You can always get your money out of that S&W, not so much for the vast majority of vehicles on the road.
I guess when I get passed by one of those overpriced toys it just brings it home how absolutely out of synch I am. And I just don't give a damn.
Now, the nice S&W Model 19-3 I recently picked up is a whole different deal.
Yeah.
I just bought a Brownells M16A1. Super sale. Cost me $800, free shipping, $25 transfer fee. I betcha I get just as much pleasure out of that rifle as the guy that spent $80K on the mega-truck.
You know that in Bernie world the gov't could just mandate a $100 minimum wage and presto chango in the magic kingdom of socialism everyone's money problems are solved.
Okay, but in Koch Bros. world, you have a 50 cent minimum wage and everybody's money problems are solved. (Nobody has any),.
Averageman
06-26-19, 21:40
Every four years or so I buy a new vehicle over the last decade it's been, Mustang GT, Mustang GT and as I now have a Son in College, a Toyota Tacoma.
I've bought each of them in near new condition, under 20 K miles and I'm guessing I've saved close to 40 K dollars because some idiot couldn't pay their car note.
I've been a stickler for maintenance, my Trucks have lasted forever. My Sons driving a Chevy Truck I gifted him that's now rolling on 375 K Miles.
The worse case scenario would be for everyone to default at once, I simply wouldn't know which new truck to buy.
Okay, but in Koch Bros. world, you have a 50 cent minimum wage and everybody's money problems are solved. (Nobody has any),.
Greedy billionaires or greedy politicians...they're cut from the same soiled clothe.
Coal Dragger
06-26-19, 22:03
Every four years or so I buy a new vehicle over the last decade it's been, Mustang GT, Mustang GT and as I now have a Son in College, a Toyota Tacoma.
I've bought each of them in near new condition, under 20 K miles and I'm guessing I've saved close to 40 K dollars because some idiot couldn't pay their car note.
I've been a stickler for maintenance, my Trucks have lasted forever. My Sons driving a Chevy Truck I gifted him that's now rolling on 375 K Miles.
The worse case scenario would be for everyone to default at once, I simply wouldn't know which new truck to buy.
LOL.
Sadly a lot of morons also have really lousy taste in colors, and options.
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