No Cert for Kettler

[sundance435]

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/courts/supreme-court-turns-away-challenge-to-federal-law-regulating-gun-silencers

Can't say I'm surprised. It was a long shot, but I was hoping the Constitutional claim would get some attention (the tax claim was always weak, IMHO). It's disappointing that we can't get 4 votes to grant cert, which reinforces my belief that the court is not nearly as conservative as the left would like people to think. I would like to know if any of them voted in favor of cert. - his wasn't a bad case for them to take on factual grounds, so it's clear to me that they're comfortable with the "reasonable restrictions" implied in Heller and McDonald.

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

These are the guys we are supposed have faith will protect us from the bumpstock bans. #4dchess

[Diamondback]

And people say Roberts and Kavanaugh AREN'T rat's-ass traitors? My bet is we had Thomas, Alito and Gorsuch. If Miller were actually being adhered to, MG's and cans would be found protected by "common military use."

[elephant]

But the 10th US Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that the 2nd Amendment does not protect silencers, as they are not "bearable arms".

I will say, ignorance is never a good defense. Cox should have done his due diligence before manufacturing suppressors and then selling said suppressors. Kettler should have researched the laws regarding suppressors before he purchased one. There is enough information online regarding suppressors to give a potential manufacture/buyer a good idea of what is required to posses one. Cox got 8 counts of possession and manufacturing while Kettler got 1 count for possession and playing ignorant didn't help. - Should have gone with the proven "get out of jail" line, "at this point, what difference does it make".

I don't see the SCOTUS overturning anything NFA/GCA related because its 80+ year history. If they opened the books on NFA, I think it would allow certain law makers to add to the list, not lower regulation.

[kwelz]

I will say, ignorance is never a good defense. Cox should have done his due diligence before manufacturing suppressors and then selling said suppressors. Kettler should have researched the laws regarding suppressors before he purchased one. There is enough information online regarding suppressors to give a potential manufacture/buyer a good idea of what is required to posses one. Cox got 8 counts of possession and manufacturing while Kettler got 1 count for possession and playing ignorant didn't help. - Should have gone with the proven "get out of jail" line, "at this point, what difference does it make".

I don't see the SCOTUS overturning anything NFA/GCA related because its 80+ year history. If they opened the books on NFA, I think it would allow certain law makers to add to the list, not lower regulation.

I thought they were acting in regards to state law that "nullified" federal law.

[MegademiC]

If it is not a “bearable arm”, then it is not a firearm.

[jsbhike]

I will say, ignorance is never a good defense. Cox should have done his due diligence before manufacturing suppressors and then selling said suppressors. Kettler should have researched the laws regarding suppressors before he purchased one. There is enough information online regarding suppressors to give a potential manufacture/buyer a good idea of what is required to posses one. Cox got 8 counts of possession and manufacturing while Kettler got 1 count for possession and playing ignorant didn't help. - Should have gone with the proven "get out of jail" line, "at this point, what difference does it make".

I don't see the SCOTUS overturning anything NFA/GCA related because its 80+ year history. If they opened the books on NFA, I think it would allow certain law makers to add to the list, not lower regulation.

Unfortunately, ignorance is often a successful defense when the perpetrator was sworn in.

Laws targeting and screwing over minorities were on the books a long time also, so duration doesn't have a lot to do with it.

[jpmuscle]

If it is not a “bearable arm”, then it is not a firearm.

Then I need to be able to buy them at Walmart


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[jack crab]

If it is not a “bearable arm”, then it is not a firearm.

Ammunition is not a "bearable arm" either. Can it be regulated/banned within the 2A?

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Ammunition is not a "bearable arm" either. Can it be regulated/banned within the 2A?

Ink isn’t protected outright in the 1st......

I’d like us to follow some kind of logical order along the lines of making it so that they cant confiscate then standard cap mags, then extended mags, then we can move onto the real fun stuff like a FAs and suppressors.

[glocktogo]

If it is not a “bearable arm”, then it is not a firearm.

Therein lies the true travesty. The 10th circuit decreed that suppressors are a "firearms accessory" and not a "bearable arm" with 2nd Amendment protections. Uhh, did they bother to tell ATF that? Because federal law enforcement has treated suppressors as firearms (or equal to firearms) under the law for the past 85 years!

Wouldn't the 10th Circuit's ruling automatically suspend federal law enforcement on suppressors, since they re-categorized them with the stroke of a pen?

IMO, allowing the 10th Circuit's ruling to stand unchallenged while allowing continued federal enforcement under the NFA Act on suppressors is madness. This is so much worse than SCOTUS saying the ACA fine is a "tax" after it was passed into law as explicitly NOT a tax. This is a legal ruling that was made AGAINST the legal definitions in the NFA law, which is bizarrely being interpreted as supporting the law!

If this isn't a WTF moment in American legal jurisprudence, I don't know what it is. Because the only other believable explanation is politics. I thought that wasn't what our "justice" system was supposed to be. :confused:

[jsbhike]

Ink isn’t protected outright in the 1st......

I’d like us to follow some kind of logical order along the lines of making it so that they cant confiscate then standard cap mags, then extended mags, then we can move onto the real fun stuff like a FAs and suppressors.

Special taxes on ink and paper are not legit, so neither should special taxes on arms and accoutrements.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minneapolis_Star_Tribune_Co._v._Commissioner

[sundance435]

I will say, ignorance is never a good defense. Cox should have done his due diligence before manufacturing suppressors and then selling said suppressors. Kettler should have researched the laws regarding suppressors before he purchased one. There is enough information online regarding suppressors to give a potential manufacture/buyer a good idea of what is required to posses one. Cox got 8 counts of possession and manufacturing while Kettler got 1 count for possession and playing ignorant didn't help. - Should have gone with the proven "get out of jail" line, "at this point, what difference does it make".

I don't see the SCOTUS overturning anything NFA/GCA related because its 80+ year history. If they opened the books on NFA, I think it would allow certain law makers to add to the list, not lower regulation.

Actually, ignorance did help Kettler, as the district court held that its sentence of probation was based in part on his improper reliance on the state law. 80+ years of lack of jurisprudence does not in itself mean anything, but it's not helpful. These types of issues tend to take a very long time to develop through small victories. It would've been nice if they gave us a tiny bit of daylight on this, even if they ultimately ruled in favor of the U.S. As someone else pointed out, letting the 10th Circuit's decision stand is even more harmful than the status quo prior to the case.


If it is not a “bearable arm”, then it is not a firearm.

That's the crux of it. The 10th Circuit's decision is more harmful than the status quo ante.


Therein lies the true travesty. The 10th circuit decreed that suppressors are a "firearms accessory" and not a "bearable arm" with 2nd Amendment protections. Uhh, did they bother to tell ATF that? Because federal law enforcement has treated suppressors as firearms (or equal to firearms) under the law for the past 85 years!

Wouldn't the 10th Circuit's ruling automatically suspend federal law enforcement on suppressors, since they re-categorized them with the stroke of a pen?

IMO, allowing the 10th Circuit's ruling to stand unchallenged while allowing continued federal enforcement under the NFA Act on suppressors is madness. This is so much worse than SCOTUS saying the ACA fine is a "tax" after it was passed into law as explicitly NOT a tax. This is a legal ruling that was made AGAINST the legal definitions in the NFA law, which is bizarrely being interpreted as supporting the law!

If this isn't a WTF moment in American legal jurisprudence, I don't know what it is. Because the only other believable explanation is politics. I thought that wasn't what our "justice" system was supposed to be. :confused:

Our only hope at this point is a district judge issuing a favorable opinion in a case along the lines of Kettler, if not an injunction, then a positive Circuit ruling to create a split. That's a tough slog, though. In the meantime, I wouldn't be surprised if the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 9th Circuit uses the same reasoning as the 10th, which could be extended to almost any conclusion short of the operating mechanism of a firearm.

[jpmuscle]

I like how the government gets to decide what arms the citizenry is permitted to resist government tyranny with.

Pretty sure that’s not how things were originally intended ......... shocking


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[FromMyColdDeadHand]

What we need is one of these district courts to take a mag ban and put a nationwide injunction on all Mag bans, just like the lefty courts do when it comes to illegal immigration .

[Hulkstr8]

Everywhere I go there is some dude, "I support the 2nd, but..."

[jpmuscle]

What we need is one of these district courts to take a mag ban and put a nationwide injunction on all Mag bans, just like the lefty courts do when it comes to illegal immigration .

I’d rather Frank Castle be a real person


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[THCDDM4]

Welcome to "Cuck'merica" a once great Nation founded by inspirational, genius level, hard ass dudes willing to shed blood and take scalps for what is Right and Just; inherited by weak ass cucks who are happy to be slowly turned into slaves as long as they have comfort and a place to bitch about it in the aether.

Where tyranny is rife, justice is hand cuffed and we have it just good enough, we just can't find it in ourselves to do what is Right and Just and instead just eat shit, bend over and let inch by inch be shoved right on in.

I've got a lot to lose, but I won't let it be ruined or taken from me without a fight.

The Constitution is being raped wholesale. It disgusts me.

It's not right and eventually we will have to do much more than just typing words on the internet, writing letters and making phone calls to "representatives" and paying dues to gun rights organizations.

[223to45]

"The Supreme Court refused Monday to decide if the Second Amendment protects gun silencers such as the one used in last month’s*Virginia Beach shooting*that killed 12 people."



https://americanmilitarynews.com/2019/06/supreme-court-refuses-to-consider-whether-second-amendment-protects-gun-silencers


So the Trump administration pressured SCOTUS to not take the case. So much for separation of powers.

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[Diamondback]

"The Supreme Court refused Monday to decide if the Second Amendment protects gun silencers such as the one used in last month’s*Virginia Beach shooting*that killed 12 people."



https://americanmilitarynews.com/2019/06/supreme-court-refuses-to-consider-whether-second-amendment-protects-gun-silencers


So the Trump administration pressured SCOTUS to not take the case. So much for separation of powers.

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So Roberts is as much Trump's bitch here as he was Obama's on Obamacare. Either way, a Chief Justice who can be made somebody else's bitch, regardless of whose, is unfit to be on SCOTUS and should be impeached for Lacking Moral Fiber.

[jsbhike]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D8oLfO0UwAACBXG.jpg