View Full Version : Too much truth? Why dont gun companies market to shooters anymore?
Eurodriver
06-21-19, 19:21
What’s up with gun companies marketing directly to the “I’m a Firefighter but almost joined the Army” Soc-Med and IG crowd these days?
Like several folks posted in the last thread - Marketing tactics like “Safe queens need not apply” and DD dropping shit out of Helos has gone the way of “Buy this upper cuz it looks mint in this photo of a guy with GPNVG-18s” (which by the way, are 50 large and unavailable for sale to civilians anyway)
Sup with that? Especially when 100% of the Soc-Med IG Hourly-wage-loser crowd can’t even afford NVGs (well, they could, but they’d rather buy and tinker with 15 mediocre piece of shit rifles instead of buying the good stuff)
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190622/c345406b5b3a6fed417677fb50fdb859.jpg
Again for the record
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Sup with that?
It sells rifles.
Because shooters buy ammo, not guns.
ETA: or they buy reloading stuff
Because shooters buy ammo, not guns.
ETA: or they buy reloading stuff
This. Guns are the least cost of my hobby.
Money. Simple as that. They are in business to make money and to do that you need a wide audience. Otherwise you buy on mount, one sling or one light and you're done. They just lost a customer because you don't need anything else
Money. Simple as that. They are in business to make money and to do that you need a wide audience. Otherwise you buy on mount, one sling or one light and you're done. They just lost a customer because you don't need anything else
This.
And the operator/shooter types driving down sales by telling people to buy fewer guns.
Can somebody translate OP's post for me? I'm quite serious: I can't tell what the issue is.
And it’s easier for them.
ViniVidivici
06-21-19, 21:56
If they were marketing to shooters, they'd be selling ammo, not guns.
Seee.....?
Can somebody translate OP's post for me? I'm quite serious: I can't tell what the issue is.
Bwahahahaha!
Trying to decipher all those initialisms is like trying to understand a text message from a millennial.
Clearly, you're not cool enough and I'm too old.
IDK what this has to with AR General Discussion. Seems we get more closely related stuff either closed or moved pretty quickly.
Has Euro sold his soul to the company store? Inquiring minds want to know.
And if marketing tactics like “Safe queens need not apply” and DD dropping shit out of Helos prompted someone to buy a certain brand, well that is what advertising is for, impressionable folks.
Today, folks are less enthralled about the GWOT, so the marketing tactics need to switch. Marketing has shifted to the lumberjack metrosexual, a sensitive well groomed man, who is serious about his commitment to protect his loved ones, but, yet, has time to stop and smell the roses.
Obviously, 3/4 of the advertisers in The American Rifleman haven't got the message that times have changed.
It sells rifles.
And the firearms industry is first and foremost a business.
Because hunters probably shoot more than most people who buy ARs and LARP is now a real thing.
For decades I've tried to spread the gospel of the LE6920, now I just don't care what people buy or why they buy it. I've met people who have spent almost $3,000 on a complete POS build that is in a moronic configuration, has features they will never need, understand or use...BUT it has a dimpled M4 profile barrel, punisher skulls and a 4-40x combat sniper scope whatever the hell that actually is, but it has an illuminated ladder reticle so it must be what Seals use.
I have actually had people look at my stock 6933 and assume I just don't know how to change furniture or install accessories.
Where are you guys seeing all this advertising?
Because shooters buy ammo, not guns.
ETA: or they buy reloading stuff
I'd agree with this.
For years I bought a lot of guns but honestly barely ever shot them. A couple years back when I decided enough was enough and I needed to get "serious" about shooting, I found myself buying way fewer guns and way more ammo.
Plus when you focus on developing skill with the guns you have I think you feel less compelled to go buy the new hotness that will supposedly make you better without you having to put the work in.
When you start feeling like you can actually get shit done with what you've got, you become more content with what you have.
Even now, I still go through tons of ammo because while I'm way better than I was I'm still not as good as I think I *should* be.
Even now, I still go through tons of ammo because while I'm way better than I was I'm still not as good as I think I *should* be.
That sounds like a country music song ;).
Outlander Systems
06-22-19, 08:01
Dude, Instagram firearms content is nothing but an advertisement.
Where are you guys seeing all this advertising?
Dude, Instagram firearms content is nothing but an advertisement.
M4C and LinkedIn is the only social media I use. It sounds like y’all might be dissatisfied with Instagram. Have you considered discontinuing using it?
Ammo, dude. Bring ammo.
Outlander Systems
06-22-19, 09:57
It’s generally an age-related thing. Younger gun guys typically use Social Media.
M4C and LinkedIn is the only social media I use. It sounds like y’all might be dissatisfied with Instagram. Have you considered discontinuing using it?
Ammo, dude. Bring ammo.
It’s generally an age-related thing. Younger gun guys typically use Social Media.
I’m 35, so I’m somewhere in the age range. I’m just not into it. If I want to see pictures of guns, I’ll come here. I do read TFB somewhat often (silencer saturday), and I see advertisements there, but I don’t really take note of what for. And there’s advertising here.
Full disclosure: I do own lots of rifles and pistols. But I can afford to both buy, and shoot. I spend way more on ammo than guns.
I’m 35, so I’m somewhere in the age range. I’m just not into it. If I want to see pictures of guns, I’ll come here. .
I don't think there's many of us like that. Never got into social media, never understood it or cared to.
For the most part I know enough about firearms to know what's what but if I don't I come here and a few other sites. When reading an article I always scroll over the advertisements so I wouldn't know if they're advertising DD, BCM or Starbucks coffee
What’s up with gun companies marketing directly to the “I’m a Firefighter but almost joined the Army” Soc-Med and IG crowd these days?
Like several folks posted in the last thread - Marketing tactics like “Safe queens need not apply” and DD dropping shit out of Helos has gone the way of “Buy this upper cuz it looks mint in this photo of a guy with GPNVG-18s” (which by the way, are 50 large and unavailable for sale to civilians anyway)
Sup with that? Especially when 100% of the Soc-Med IG Hourly-wage-loser crowd can’t even afford NVGs (well, they could, but they’d rather buy and tinker with 15 mediocre piece of shit rifles instead of buying the good stuff)
People dont like to shoot because they realize they suck, so they buy expensive rifles and it makes them feel capable. Companies just profit off if it because its a larger market segment than shooters... as far as I can tell.
Ive been getting into uspsa the last couple years, and even there, it seems only a “few” of us actually train.
I'm getting really sick of the effects that Instagram culture has on gear choices of people taking classes. So often I see guys show up festooned with every gadget possible, high end Glocks with spoilers and go-fast holes only to see them fumble **** their weapons, miss their targets, commit safety violations and generally slow the class to a crawl. They're there solely in hopes that someone will ask how much they spent and fawn over their Gucci gear between drills. You're not at a cosplay convention, you're sending live rounds downrange. Don't come in costume, come to shoot.
Outlander Systems
06-22-19, 14:41
I think, and this is purely speculation, the further away we get from peak GWOT, the faster we revert to the mean.
I'm getting really sick of the effects that Instagram culture has on gear choices of people taking classes. So often I see guys show up festooned with every gadget possible, high end Glocks with spoilers and go-fast holes only to see them fumble **** their weapons, miss their targets, commit safety violations and generally slow the class to a crawl. They're there solely in hopes that someone will ask how much they spent and fawn over their Gucci gear between drills. You're not at a cosplay convention, you're sending live rounds downrange. Don't come in costume, come to shoot.
People dont like to shoot because they realize they suck, so they buy expensive rifles and it makes them feel capable. Companies just profit off if it because its a larger market segment than shooters... as far as I can tell.
Ive been getting into uspsa the last couple years, and even there, it seems only a “few” of us actually train.People don't like shooting because it damages guns. Scratches and wear
Confession: Since my last post in this thread, I logged onto Facebook for the first time in a few years. I found pics of moderately dirty gun parts posted by Forward Controls Design. They were mine, used with permission. I logged in because Duffy politely asked me if I could answer a question about the pics. I’ve had really good comms with Duffy, and can highly recommend every item of theirs that I have tried, and the prices are pretty good, so I was more than happy to help out. No one tried to sell me any guns in the 10 minutes I was on Facebook. Most of my few “friends” on there are shooters that I have worked with. They know my phone number. I probably won’t login again until I have a similar reason.
Funny thing is, I’ve got a buddy that does some management thing for Colt. I think .mil sales manager. He was my 1SG at one point. I’m connected to him on LinkedIn, and real-world friends. He’s never once tried to sell me anything, and being connected to him on social media has not triggered any sales attempts. Maybe Colt knows I have enough guns? I don’t know how instagram works, connection wise. The vast majority of my LinkedIn is populated by proper shooters and a handful of medics. I think maybe y’all should thin your herd of “friends”, if it works that way, so that the content feed is comprised by people that wear out barrels.
TL;DR: So, I’m a hypocrite on the subject of social media. -15 internet creds.
Edit: Tinder and Bumble are also social media, so I guess I use as much social media as anyone else.
I'm getting really sick of the effects that Instagram culture has on gear choices of people taking classes. So often I see guys show up festooned with every gadget possible, high end Glocks with spoilers and go-fast holes only to see them fumble **** their weapons, miss their targets, commit safety violations and generally slow the class to a crawl. They're there solely in hopes that someone will ask how much they spent and fawn over their Gucci gear between drills. You're not at a cosplay convention, you're sending live rounds downrange. Don't come in costume, come to shoot.
While I get what you are saying, at least they are AT a class where they might get some guidance and improve. Lots of people just buy what they think is "high speed operator" gear and assume that will give them the edge they need.
I've been shooting with people who spend more time "gearing up" than they do actually shooting. My favorite is the guy with the tac vest loaded with mags and gadgets who is shooting on a static firing line.
I am in full agreement with Euro.
And it boils down to this
People who buy guns to buy guns to be cool:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fd/42/57/fd4257feb93a3369572d660f7635565b.jpg
Real shooters who DGAF and just shoot:
https://imgflip.com/s/meme/Me-And-The-Boys.jpg
MountainRaven
06-22-19, 20:05
That big braced pistol isn't gucci enough to belong to someone who just wants to take pictures. Nothing matches, parts have been randomly painted and worn, there's a random Glock Pmag in the PC. Nothing is stupid expensive, nothing is stupid cheap, everything fits in a decent price-to-performance ratio:
Glock with metal sights in a Safariland 7TS holster.
Trijicon MRO. DD rail. Noveske safety. KAK brace. Pmags.
One random morale patch (and it's not some stupid bloodtype patch or Moron Labia thing, it's a panda with guns).
I'm guessing she just got a new PC and warbelt and slapped them on over her normal day clothes.
You wanna find someone who really doesn't use their guns and thinks they can buy skill, you need to find someone with a Form 1'd SBR with a Vortex Razor 1-6 or a Mk18 with an Elcan Specter DR, a Roland Special or a 2011 with a weapon light, in Crye combats in Multicam with Multicam JPC, Multicam ALS thigh holster, all the magazines have TTI extensions on them, &c. And everything is immaculately clean, everything matches (including the handgun to the long gun). Like... if you look at 99% of the advertising that Euro is complaining about, that's exactly what you'll see.
At the privet club I belong to, the majority of real shooters are shooting an old bolt gun, or a cary or competition pistol and do it well. You see them there regularly with the same guns. Most are better shots than me and don’t have a real interest in the latest greatest on the bench next to them. The other group of shooter I see the most are the gun of the week guys. They put a couple of boxes through their new toy and talk it up to try to get you to join the club. These guns either get stuffed in the safe, or sold for the next toy. That’s who gun company’s market to, consumers not shooters Same as any company, fishing, hunting, cameras, computers, the next wonder gadget will get you more fish, deer, better photos or whatever. It’s what keeps the economy going.
While I get what you are saying, at least they are AT a class where they might get some guidance and improve. Lots of people just buy what they think is "high speed operator" gear and assume that will give them the edge they need....
Yeah, keyword "might". A lot of those people, the class is an accessory to the guns as much as whatever gadgets they put on the things. They don't really *learn* at the class, it's all in one ear and out the other and the next week they're back to throwing money downrange without any real plan to implement what they've learned. They were just there to participate, maybe get a few pictures, and talk about the cool-guy class they were at so their jealous friends will think they're "Operator"....
Or they maybe are a little more serious and they've gone to a high-speed class to learn, but the learning mentality isn't really all there and then afterwards they think they've learned everything there is to know and they're "done".
The only guns I can really recall being marketed to a group that could be considered high volume shooters are trap/skeet type shotguns.
. You wanna find someone who really doesn't use their guns and thinks they can buy skill, you need to find someone with a Form 1'd SBR with a Vortex Razor 1-6 or a Mk18 with an Elcan Specter DR, a Roland Special or a 2011 with a weapon light, in Crye combats in Multicam with Multicam JPC, Multicam ALS thigh holster, all the magazines have TTI extensions on them, &c. And everything is immaculately clean, everything matches (including the handgun to the long gun). Like... if you look at 99% of the advertising that Euro is complaining about, that's exactly what you'll see.
THIS is what I aspire to. Plus a full head of hair in a serious lumberjack cut.
The only guns I can really recall being marketed to a group that could be considered high volume shooters are trap/skeet type shotguns.
For a time, the "black rifle" training / workshop group were serious regular shooters, not sure if that's still a thing. I know for myself it comes down to time and money. Ammo prices tripled from where they were a little more than 10 years ago and from the 80s to about 2004 ammo prices barely changed at all. Everyone assumed that as long as the US went to war, there would always be cheap military surplus ammo from a variety of Nato countries. Nobody ever dreamed that Warsaw pact ammo would every be more than a few cents a round.
So the days of putting 500 rounds downrange in a single range visit for me are over. Now I typically fire 100 rounds for a range visit and try and do that twice a month.
Guns have been marketed to people using emotion, and all kinds of emotions. During the early part of the 20th Century, Iver Johnson Arms & Cycle Works of Fitchburg, Massachusetts turned out many, many thousands of inexpensive, but reliable pistols with some revolutionary features. I own a nice little collection of these myself.
This is an ad from 1904, which would make heads explode in our modern world. Safety was the marketing concept, and safety was important to all segments of society, not just professional or proficient shooters:
https://i.imgur.com/XjG04dxh.jpg
Yeah, keyword "might". A lot of those people, the class is an accessory to the guns as much as whatever gadgets they put on the things. They don't really *learn* at the class, it's all in one ear and out the other and the next week they're back to throwing money downrange without any real plan to implement what they've learned. They were just there to participate, maybe get a few pictures, and talk about the cool-guy class they were at so their jealous friends will think they're "Operator"....
Or they maybe are a little more serious and they've gone to a high-speed class to learn, but the learning mentality isn't really all there and then afterwards they think they've learned everything there is to know and they're "done".It's hard to implement depending on where you live. I take classes but implementing what I learned is almost impossible. Only ranges are indoor static where fast shooting is prohibited or at least looked down at. Push the target to X distance and just poke holes at it. The only other range that at least has movable targets where you can set it to present for X amount of time at X distance has a line out the door on opening. Either show up an hour early or wait one or two hours for your turn. Meanwhile you have shit to do on weekends, especially summer.
I'm not trying to make excuses for everyone but not all of us have time or land to implement what we learned efficiently and/or effectively week after week
Diamondback
06-23-19, 20:45
It's hard to implement depending on where you live. I take classes but implementing what I learned is almost impossible. Only ranges are indoor static where fast shooting is prohibited or at least looked down at. Push the target to X distance and just poke holes at it. The only other range that at least has movable targets where you can set it to present for X amount of time at X distance has a line out the door on opening. Either show up an hour early or wait one or two hours for your turn. Meanwhile you have shit to do on weekends, especially summer.
I'm not trying to make excuses for everyone but not all of us have time or land to implement what we learned efficiently and/or effectively week after week
Sounds like my area--the alternate is a handful of outdoor ranges run by Elmer Fudds that wanna throw you out if you even MENTION AR's nevermind bring one, and find "run-and-gun" or shoot-from-cover drills similarly incomprehensible. No silhouette targets allowed, either, even if you put Bin Laden's face on it.
Sounds like my area--the alternate is a handful of outdoor ranges run by Elmer Fudds that wanna throw you out if you even MENTION AR's nevermind bring one, and find "run-and-gun" or shoot-from-cover drills similarly incomprehensible. No silhouette targets allowed, either, even if you put Bin Laden's face on it.Yep! Have an outdoor range within walking distance of my house. Haven't used it in years. First, it's all stationary. You have to sit to shoot. Second, there's a red line behind the bays where you stand if not shooting or when others are changing targets. Last time I was there I got reprimanded because my foot was on the line. The bay, where my firearm was, was 20ft away and because of my foot placement I was now 19.7ft away and thus creating an unsafe atmosphere! So yeah....we don't all have access to land and time to train like in class
Diamondback
06-23-19, 21:12
Yep! Have an outdoor range within walking distance of my house. Haven't used it in years. First, it's all stationary. You have to sit to shoot. Second, there's a red line behind the bays where you stand if not shooting or when others are changing targets. Last time I was there I got reprimanded because my foot was on the line. The bay, where my forearm was, was 20ft away and because of my foot placement I was now 19.7ft away and thus creating an unsafe atmosphere! So yeah....we don't all have access to land and time to train like in class
Ah yes, the Anal Retentive Range Nazis... we got those too. And even on the local indoor pistol range, the Bubbas wondered why I preferred to hang with the LE clientele? (Granted, when their idea of a welcome is "We don't WANT yer kind here, COLLEGE BOY"... and they used to really Get Teh Butthurtz when I brought ladies from the college along to teach to shoot during lunch.)
MorphCross
06-23-19, 22:13
I hate to be the devils advocate but in this case outdoor ranges that do not limit themselves to a membership clientele have to set rules to a lowest common denominator if they want to be able to pay a sustainable insurance policy.
As to the original topic, I don't have a problem with anyone buying firearms to shoot, collect, and/or take fashionista pictures. Base reason: more money they have wrapped up in their proclivity, the more likely they will be ardent about defending their hobby from those who don't care about the affirmed right to arms.
Diamondback
06-23-19, 23:15
I hate to be the devils advocate but in this case outdoor ranges that do not limit themselves to a membership clientele have to set rules to a lowest common denominator if they want to be able to pay a sustainable insurance policy.
Yeah, but these are members-and-invited-guests-only facilities I'm talking about, not open-to-the-public ranges.
Unsure what to make of this thread. My overriding thought is why does anyone care about IG toolbags doing their thing? What is the importance of how gun manufacturers market?
Instagram is for posturing and preening, you guys just figuring that out?
There is a selection bias due to the nature of the folks who post on IG.
Diamondback
06-24-19, 00:14
Unsure what to make of this thread. My overriding thought is why does anyone care about IG toolbags doing their thing? What is the importance of how gun manufacturers market?
Well, survival does depend on sales... gotta keep the bucks coming in somehow. If everybody just bought a 6920 on their 18th (21st in Washington after 7/1) birthday and got a life putting the rest of their gun money into spare parts, good optics, and ammo and training, how would Colt, BCM, KAC etc keep the doors open?
Unsure what to make of this thread. My overriding thought is why does anyone care about IG toolbags doing their thing? What is the importance of how gun manufacturers market?Pretty much. I certainly don't care what anyone else does with their money, or how a business desides to sell their products to their target audience. I can't imagine spending time worrying about something that I can't control anyway, and honestly isn't any of my business.
If these companies overnight said "You LARPers are gay and we don't want you using our products" and they chose not sell to anyone but a select few, they'd be in bad shape. If these companies only sold to the very small minority that may actually benefit from their products, I can't imagine they'd make enough to innovate and produce new products. Matter of fact, one could even argue that it's because of these people that we even have the products and innovation the firearms industry has seen the past two decades. Where else would the money come from otherwise?..
There is a reason Colt and HK aren't doing so hot financially, and it's not simply because professionals stopped using their stuff.
Instagram is for posturing and preening, you guys just figuring that out?
There is a selection bias due to the nature of the folks who post on IG.This.
It's pretty simple too, there is a logout button on that website/app somewhere. One could simply log out, and find better use of their time without the optional distraction of social media.
Been there and done that, life is much better unplugged.
(Edit: Yes, I understand the irony of that statement).
On the subject of LARPing, many of you have said that you don’t keep a rifle in arms reach and at the bedside in your home, instead electing to use pistols for HD (silly IMO). So, if you don’t use a M4 to pay your bills, but own a M4, are you not a LARPer?
If you are on Instagram, what pictures are you posting? Are they of your gun or of yourself LARPing? If you work at a desk, but consider yourself a “shooter”, are you not just another LARPer, LARPing in a different way?
Guy who shoots a lot =\= professional “shooter”.
I like the concept of proficiency tests for new range users/members so that capable shooters can do the work they need to. Start with demonstrate your load/unload SOP, reload, draw from a holster, marksmanship at distance, NSRs, alternative positions, etc. Employee competency and judgement is an obvious problem with that.
Holding a respectable classification could also work, but shooting well doesn't mean you're safe. Similarly, prior/current mil or LE status is dubious.
I like the concept of proficiency tests for new range users/members so that capable shooters can do the work they need to. Start with demonstrate your load/unload SOP, reload, draw from a holster, marksmanship at distance, NSRs, alternative positions, etc. Employee competency and judgement is an obvious problem with that.
Holding a respectable classification could also work, but shooting well doesn't mean you're safe. Similarly, prior/current mil or LE status is dubious.
But then you run into the problem of some people not carrying about draws, positions,. NSRs, or even shooting at distance. Some just want to go and shoot at 7 yards or less and that it. Most probably don't carry, or don't carry that gun and don't own holsters for it
But then you run into the problem of some people not carrying about draws, positions,. NSRs, or even shooting at distance. Some just want to go and shoot at 7 yards or less and that it. Most probably don't carry, or don't carry that gun and don't own holsters for it
Right, and those folks can skip the check-off, and be the folks that stand at fixed firing positions not doing those things.
Outlander Systems
06-24-19, 11:00
I absolutely look at a nightstand pistol as my primary battle rifle.
On the subject of LARPing, many of you have said that you don’t keep a rifle in arms reach and at the bedside in your home, instead electing to use pistols for HD (silly IMO).
I absolutely look at a nightstand pistol as my primary battle rifle.
So then ASSuming you don’t currently use a rifle for a living, how does spending your hard earned green stuff on M4’s, training, and ammo not make you a LARPer?
BTW, that Aimpoint PRO is still kicking; thanks!
Outlander Systems
06-24-19, 12:27
LOL! Hell yes.
But, yeah, I'm a HobbyGrade Gunslinger.
BTW, that Aimpoint PRO is still kicking; thanks!
Diamondback
06-24-19, 12:30
I like the concept of proficiency tests for new range users/members so that capable shooters can do the work they need to. Start with demonstrate your load/unload SOP, reload, draw from a holster, marksmanship at distance, NSRs, alternative positions, etc. Employee competency and judgement is an obvious problem with that.
Holding a respectable classification could also work, but shooting well doesn't mean you're safe. Similarly, prior/current mil or LE status is dubious.
If they offered exam-based supplemental endorsements like a Motorcycle endorsement on your driver's license I could get behind that, but here it's split between "tactical shit is only for the police and only when they book the entire range" and "not even for cops."
I dunno how they get their panties untwisted enough to endure the odd occasional IDPA or USPSA event defiling "their precious"...
Outlander Systems
06-24-19, 12:34
If manufacturers REALLY wanted to sell more guns, they'd team up, and start opening more ranges.
If manufacturers REALLY wanted to sell more guns, they'd team up, and start opening more ranges.
You might be on to something.
If manufacturers REALLY wanted to sell more guns, they'd team up, and start opening more ranges.
I'm kind of surprised that Smith, in particular, hasn't done a spinoff of the GSSF model with the M&P series.
Five_Point_Five_Six
06-24-19, 15:15
Maybe we need this war with Iran to make shooting M4's great again? I mean, peak GWOT days was lit af fam. I kinda miss it. No FB, no IG, just everybody out there living our best lives with quad rails, FSBs, Comp M2s, 60 lumen incandescent Surefire lights, and salty USGI mags.
If manufacturers REALLY wanted to sell more guns, they'd team up, and start opening more ranges.
And teaming up on political outreach and 2a support. Bring new members to their new ranges for free range day education. Lots of strategies that too few are willing to do for the big picture (and sales!).
Maybe we need this war with Iran to make shooting M4's great again? I mean, peak GWOT days was lit af fam. I kinda miss it. No FB, no IG, just everybody out there living our best lives with quad rails, FSBs, Comp M2s, 60 lumen incandescent Surefire lights, and salty USGI mags.
My man. I miss that shite in a weird way.
Outlander Systems
06-24-19, 16:40
It’s like selling basketballs, but there’s no basketball goals or courts anywhere that are worth a shit.
And teaming up on political outreach and 2a support. Bring new members to their new ranges for free range day education. Lots of strategies that too few are willing to do for the big picture (and sales!).
Maybe we need this war with Iran to make shooting M4's great again? I mean, peak GWOT days was lit af fam. I kinda miss it. No FB, no IG, just everybody out there living our best lives with quad rails, FSBs, Comp M2s, 60 lumen incandescent Surefire lights, and salty USGI mags.Im always amused by how long the 60 lumen light was the standard. To hear the talk of lumens these days youd might as well have stuck a birthday candle to your rail. Now you either can illuminate a 10 acre field or youre airsoft
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Im always amused by how long the 60 lumen light was the standard. To hear the talk of lumens these days youd might as well have stuck a birthday candle to your rail. Now you either can illuminate a 10 acre field or youre airsoft
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Truth. I had a 6z on my belt and a 6p on my gun for years and never once thought "dang, this sucks". Oh, I still have them but replaced the heads with Malkoff heads.....
Maybe we need this war with Iran to make shooting M4's great again? I mean, peak GWOT days was lit af fam. I kinda miss it. No FB, no IG, just everybody out there living our best lives with quad rails, FSBs, Comp M2s, 60 lumen incandescent Surefire lights, and salty USGI mags.
Make Operator Beards Great Again!
Outlander Systems
06-24-19, 17:42
I still have an old 60-lumen retina scorcher on one of my guns.
Im always amused by how long the 60 lumen light was the standard. To hear the talk of lumens these days youd might as well have stuck a birthday candle to your rail. Now you either can illuminate a 10 acre field or youre airsoft
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I still have an old 60-lumen retina scorcher on one of my guns.But Now I cant remember if the 60 lumens was the original output or was that with the supped up P61 bulb assembly?
I still have a 90s vintage surefire forend on my 870.
Ive probably only put 100rds through that gun since the 90s lmao
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Diamondback
06-24-19, 19:10
I think you guys are on to something, the NSSF needs to start getting its crap together and the manufacturers need to start giving it some horsepower to really do things and speak with one Industry Voice. After all, when manufacturers talk, that's JOBS talking, and constituents don't like you when you make their job go away...
Five_Point_Five_Six
06-24-19, 19:40
My man. I miss that shite in a weird way.
Simpler times for sure my friend, simpler times indeed
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Im always amused by how long the 60 lumen light was the standard. To hear the talk of lumens these days youd might as well have stuck a birthday candle to your rail. Now you either can illuminate a 10 acre field or youre airsoft
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I remember when the 6P and G2(X)? hit 150 lumens and we thought we were ballin'. In fact I still have one of the 150 lumen Surefire's on a rifle, the 60 lumen incandescent Surefire it replaced has been in my truck since and still works.
MountainRaven
06-24-19, 19:45
I remember thinking that my 100-lumen X200B was sooo bright.
I remember when the 6P and G2(X)? hit 150 lumens and we thought we were ballin'. In fact I still have one of the 150 lumen Surefire's on a rifle, the 60 lumen incandescent Surefire it replaced has been in my truck since and still works.
I remember thinking that my 100-lumen X200B was sooo bright.
I remember working OT to upgrade my P60 lamps to P61s, and then feed them batteries. 20 minutes of 120 lumens. Woot.
I remember working OT to upgrade my P60 lamps to P61s, and then feed them batteries. 20 minutes of 120 lumens. Woot.
I can remember replacing the standard bulb on my 6 cell maglite with a halogen bulb and wowee...or so we believed. I think now to the absolute crap running on rayovac batteries I had a a kid, that were probably 10 candle power literally and just feel robbed.
I remember thinking the Surefire 961 was a freaking lightsaber with its eye conflagrating 125 lumens.
Diamondback
06-25-19, 02:36
And you people wonder why I wear polarized lenses at almost all times... LOL
Cuteness of moving this to GD aside...
It isn’t about having the latest or the gucci. It’s about having stuff that works, friends that know how to use stuff that works, and honestly the gun isn’t near as important as proficiency, support equipment, et al
AND AMMO. YOU NEED MORE AMMO. YOU CAN NEVER HAVE ENOUGH. (To paraphrase a buddy of mine)
Honestly, I can see me be ridding myself of a lot of extra to maybe four serious rifles because at present I maybe have three and some toys that I have honestly outgrown.
I think a lot of erstwhile leaders in rifle manufacturing can make money appealing to the instathot crowd but really it’s kinda lame.
I like the whole freedom of choice and accessibility but really you don’t need what “they” say you do.
You just need to shoot more
Because gun manufacturers don't have to market to shooters. Shooters and professional users research and seek out the best equipment for their purpose and budget. It's the "collectors" and "casuals" that need to be marketed to because they don't know that they need that new blinged out custom slide and anodized base pad extensions until they saw that clip of some tatted up, bearded ninja slinging lead with 'em on the 'Gram.
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