View Full Version : Most Accurate Bulk 5.56??
kestrel452
06-22-19, 14:42
Looking to replace my go-to for SHTF stacking since MEN has permanently dried up.... Kind of want to stick with 55gr M193, but could be persuaded out of it.
What is the consensus on what brand offers the most accurate/highest quality bulk 5.56 ammo? My own research points towards IMI, which supposedly even beats out MEN according to a few different users who've shot both extensively. One option I've also seen is Magtech's 62gr without the steel penetrator, but I'd rather stick with something I know is in high demand and will be available to purchase for a long time to come.
Thank you in advance for any insight. :cool:
IMI m193 is tough to beat in their price range.
I’ve had good luck with PMC X-Tac 55 gr. as well.
kestrel452
06-22-19, 17:16
IMI m193 is tough to beat in their price range.
I’ve had good luck with PMC X-Tac 55 gr. as well.
Thanks for the reply. I’ve heard good things about PMC and IMI. Have you tried MEN or CBC/Magtech M193? Just curious how they stack up against each other.
The IMI was more consistent (over chrono) than MEN or CBC/Magtech.
The MEN, CBC had ESs over 70 FPS where the IMI was half that.
The IMI was more accurate, particularly past 200 yds.
Never chrono’d the PMC X-Tac, but accuracy was/is on par with IMI.
Of those two I’d go with IMI, it’s legit MILSPEC m193.
kestrel452
06-23-19, 11:10
The IMI was more consistent (over chrono) than MEN or CBC/Magtech.
The MEN, CBC had ESs over 70 FPS where the IMI was half that.
The IMI was more accurate, particularly past 200 yds.
Never chrono’d the PMC X-Tac, but accuracy was/is on par with IMI.
Of those two I’d go with IMI, it’s legit MILSPEC m193.
Thanks. I've heard some differing opinions on what kind of accuracy is "mil-spec" for M193. Some say 1 MOA, others 4 MOA. What groups did you see with these brands of ammo? Is the IMI stuff the only genuine mil-spec M193 out there you can get?
Thanks. I've heard some differing opinions on what kind of accuracy is "mil-spec" for M193. Some say 1 MOA, others 4 MOA. What groups did you see with these brands of ammo? Is the IMI stuff the only genuine mil-spec M193 out there you can get?
The combination of mil M4s and 855 is supposed to be between 3-4 MOA. I’m not positive about 193, but there’s no way it’s supposed to be at one. Honestly I’d probably be pretty happy if I was able to get a consistent 2.5 with most bulk ammo. I’ve never actually grouped that stuff though so I don’t know how realistic it is.
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And thats a 3x10 round composite group.
The combination of mil M4s and 855 is supposed to be between 3-4 MOA. I’m not positive about 193, but there’s no way it’s supposed to be at one. Honestly I’d probably be pretty happy if I was able to get a consistent 2.5 with most bulk ammo. I’ve never actually grouped that stuff though so I don’t know how realistic it is.
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This^
2-2.5” at 100 yds (5 shot, benched- ideal conditions) is about the norm from my guns with IMI, add 1/2” for the PMC X-Tac.
Here are information sheets for 5.56 (the ammo itself, both M193 and 855):
https://www.northropgrumman.com/Capabilities/5-56mmAmmunition/Documents/5.56mmAmmunitionFactSheet.pdf
Note M193, fired through a test fixture, is supposed to do about a minute-of-angle (by average mean radius) at 200 yards.
The spec for the M4 and 855 together as a system (MIL-C-71186) is a 5-inch extreme spread at 100 yards (91.4 Meters).
If you want to dig deeper, goggle the mil specs ref'ed in the info sheets.
kestrel452
06-23-19, 15:21
Here are information sheets for 5.56 (the ammo itself, both M193 and 855):
https://www.northropgrumman.com/Capabilities/5-56mmAmmunition/Documents/5.56mmAmmunitionFactSheet.pdf
Note M193, fired through a test fixture, is supposed to do about a minute-of-angle (by average mean radius) at 200 yards.
The spec for the M4 and 855 together as a system (MIL-C-71186) is a 5-inch extreme spread at 100 yards (91.4 Meters).
If you want to dig deeper, goggle the mil specs ref'ed in the info sheets.
Thanks for the clarification. I knew I had read the 1 MOA requirement somewhere...
It's increasingly sounding like the IMI ammo is the only first-quality (non-reject), mil-spec M193 readily available. Are there any 55gr match quality cartridges out there that will last as long as the milsurp in storage? All of my rifles are zero'd for 55gr ammo, and I'd like to not have my zero shift too much between M193 milsurp and 5.56 match stuff (if that's even possible). I don't foresee doing anything with 5.56 outside of 350-400 yards...I plan to get an M14 for that sort of thing.
There are several accurate 55 gr FMJ loads available, but they are .223 Rem pressure.
Black Hills makes a 55 gr load that shoots well.
I have a plain-jane BCM lightweight with a 2-8x32 scope on it — NOT a precision rifle.
PMP (South African) was surprisingly good, shooting ≈2" groups @ 100yds. ... It was not only better than the other "ball" ammo like PPU and Wolf, but better than some Black Hills "match" and Hornady TAP.
PPU: 3-5/8"
BHA: >3"
BHA: 4-1/4"
Wolf: ??? (4/5 = 1-3/8")
TAP: 2-3/4"
TAP: 3-3/4"
PMP: 1-7/8"
PMP: 2"
PMP: 2-1/4"
Norma: < 1-1/2"
So, if I could find more PMP at a good price, then I would jump on it.
kestrel452
06-24-19, 09:49
There are several accurate 55 gr FMJ loads available, but they are .223 Rem pressure.
Black Hills makes a 55 gr load that shoots well.
I’m kind of a noob to be honest....is the IMI stuff effective on man size targets out to 300 yards, or is every bulk M193 just too inaccurate?
Would it be possible to make my own match-quality 5.56 pressure 55gr ammo? I haven’t done any kind of reloading myself, and I don’t know what it takes to do annealing/crimping/sealing for long term storage, but it’s been at the back of my mind as an option. I just really don’t want to lose my zero.
...is the IMI stuff effective on man size targets out to 300 yards, or is every bulk M193 just too inaccurate?
Sure, even 3-4moa is good enough for that.
Would it be possible to make my own match-quality 5.56 pressure 55gr ammo?
Yep! It just takes time and money!
There isn't a whole lot you're apt to buy that won't hold on a B/C target or E silhouette to 300 yards. 300 yards isn't far at all.
There are several accurate 55 gr FMJ loads available, but they are .223 Rem pressure.
Black Hills makes a 55 gr load that shoots well.
Lots of those 55 FMJs and JSPs to 600 yards, and they fly well.
I’ve had really good luck with the IMI 77g razorcore, it’s a bit more than 55g stuff but you can get it in bulk for a good price
Kansaswoodguy
07-07-19, 01:29
SHTF ammo who cares 3 MOA is good enough it just needs to go bang reliably I keep 1800 rounds of some old Wolf ammo around for that. I think I paid $89 a 1000rounds for it more than a couple years ago but for SHTF ammo it's there in the ammo cans with desiccant ready to go.
Looking to replace my go-to for SHTF stacking since MEN has permanently dried up.... Kind of want to stick with 55gr M193, but could be persuaded out of it.
What is the consensus on what brand offers the most accurate/highest quality bulk 5.56 ammo? My own research points towards IMI, which supposedly even beats out MEN according to a few different users who've shot both extensively. One option I've also seen is Magtech's 62gr without the steel penetrator, but I'd rather stick with something I know is in high demand and will be available to purchase for a long time to come.
Thank you in advance for any insight. :cool:
Ive tried everything you posted plus federal xm193 and pmc xtac xp193.
They all perform great for mil spec ammo.
With that said, ive switched over to magtech 62gr because its a little better out of my guns. Ymmv
Youll be fine with any of these.
I've found Federal XM193 to be *sufficiently* accurate that when coupled with the ease of frequently getting it more cheaply than other options, I tend to keep most of my "go to" mags loaded with it.
Although I will say my impression is that IMI and Privi Partizan M193 do both tend to be *slightly* more accurate than the Federal.
Another M193 load I found to exhibit pretty decent accuracy (By M193 standards if course) is Hornady Frontier. I only fired 150 rounds of it, but was satisfied enough with it that I was going to buy more. Then I heard chatter about it blowing guns up though, and didn't bother. This was last year and presumably whatever issue was going on was a short-term QC problem that Hornady has surely gotten under control by now....one would hope.
Daniel44114
07-25-19, 14:23
Might try the Black Hills Blue box?
cheaper beacuse they use once fired brass
Other than that I find it highly accurate
Between IMI M193, M855, and PPU 75gr HPBT, I haven't bought an upper that doesn't really like one of those. None of those are pricy options for what they are.
Blue Blox black hills can be extremely nice, but that secret has been discovered for quite a while now.
Stocking up on bulk too, ran across this thread. Have tried everything else listed in thread except the South African, and it's currently out at the several places I shop at.
A few I didn't see mentioned, and haven't tried. Thoughts on these?
* Fiocchi M193. Heard good feedback that this is quality, accurate bulk for the $$.
* Win M193. Ok, so their story seems to change periodically from ok to not ok over the last 15 years or so. Seems like Win ammo has issues with consistency. I've never tried their any of their 5.56 ammo, but got solid accuracy/performance with their .45 230gr FMJ and 9mm 124gr NATO pistol ammo. Pricing is close enough to the other bulk options. Good to go, or currently one to avoid?
Couple other Q's on people's bulk ammo use:
* Does anybody just stock up on M855 as your single all-purpose bulk round for training, blasting, SHTF, whatever, so that you have more consistency with a 62gr bulk load for all your general purpose use and blasting across all rifles/optics?
* For bulk ammo, are you getting better accuracy out of M855 (pick your favorite brand), or M193?
Stocking up on bulk too, ran across this thread. Have tried everything else listed in thread except the South African, and it's currently out at the several places I shop at.
A few I didn't see mentioned, and haven't tried. Thoughts on these?
* Fiocchi M193. Heard good feedback that this is quality, accurate bulk for the $$.
* Win M193. Ok, so their story seems to change periodically from ok to not ok over the last 15 years or so. Seems like Win ammo has issues with consistency. I've never tried their any of their 5.56 ammo, but got solid accuracy/performance with their .45 230gr FMJ and 9mm 124gr NATO pistol ammo. Pricing is close enough to the other bulk options. Good to go, or currently one to avoid?
Couple other Q's on people's bulk ammo use:
* Does anybody just stock up on M855 as your single all-purpose bulk round for training, blasting, SHTF, whatever, so that you have more consistency with a 62gr bulk load for all your general purpose use and blasting across all rifles/optics?
* For bulk ammo, are you getting better accuracy out of M855 (pick your favorite brand), or M193?
855 is a wast of money. Costs more but performance really isn’t there to justify it. I’ve never payed for it and never plan to.
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855 is a waste of money. Costs more but performance really isn’t there to justify it. I’ve never payed for it and never plan to.
This is my sense, too. The oddball armor-penetrating qualities of 855 don't hold any appeal, and the crummy accuracy and higher cost are deal-breakers.
The only upside to M855 is that it's a robust round. It's sealed, ball powder, full powered... but actual performance and accuracy isn't good at all.
855 is a wast of money. Costs more but performance really isn’t there to justify it. I’ve never payed for it and never plan to.
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This is my sense, too. The oddball armor-penetrating qualities of 855 don't hold any appeal, and the crummy accuracy and higher cost are deal-breakers.
The only upside to M855 is that it's a robust round. It's sealed, ball powder, full powered... but actual performance and accuracy isn't good at all.
All of this is true. I only have a stockpile because I got several thousand rounds for really cheap. I only buy more of it when its the cheapest available 5.56. Most of the time when I buy 62gr 5.56, I go for lead core projectiles.
So the comment about 62gr raises another Q before I refresh my stockpile. I've always gotten mostly 55gr/193 bulk, but the current rifles are all either 1:7 or 1:8 twist barrels. With better quality defensive, match, or hunting ammo, I'm always using heavier loads than 55gr.
Wondering if, before I just go get another large quantity of M193, it's worth testing some 62gr (other than M855) and 75/77gr bulk stuff. I wouldn't mind paying a little more per rd for better accuracy and performance.
Wondering if, before I just go get another large quantity of M193, it's worth testing some 62gr (other than M855) and 75/77gr bulk stuff. I wouldn't mind paying a little more per rd for better accuracy and performance.
It's worth it to me. I phased all 55 gr out years ago and have all 77/75 gr with a can of M855 in there too. Any ammo is better than NO ammo... but while I have the luxury of picking, I stepped up to nicer projectiles.
Yeah.
I shoot a lot of CBC 77 gr. OTM.
The Sierra bullet is GTG but the crazy high ES's produce "phantom" fliers, which are more noticeable past 300 yds.
Stocking up on bulk too, ran across this thread. Have tried everything else listed in thread except the South African, and it's currently out at the several places I shop at.
A few I didn't see mentioned, and haven't tried. Thoughts on these?
* Fiocchi M193. Heard good feedback that this is quality, accurate bulk for the $$.
* Win M193. Ok, so their story seems to change periodically from ok to not ok over the last 15 years or so. Seems like Win ammo has issues with consistency. I've never tried their any of their 5.56 ammo, but got solid accuracy/performance with their .45 230gr FMJ and 9mm 124gr NATO pistol ammo. Pricing is close enough to the other bulk options. Good to go, or currently one to avoid?
Couple other Q's on people's bulk ammo use:
* Does anybody just stock up on M855 as your single all-purpose bulk round for training, blasting, SHTF, whatever, so that you have more consistency with a 62gr bulk load for all your general purpose use and blasting across all rifles/optics?
* For bulk ammo, are you getting better accuracy out of M855 (pick your favorite brand), or M193?
I've gone through like 1200 rounds of that Winchester White Box 55gr in the 200 round boxes that Walmart sells (or used to sell...) It's not marked as M193 anywhere but it was reliable and seemed comparable to M193 in terms of accuracy.
I only have about 400 rounds of M855 on hand at the moment, with the vast majority of everything else I have being some flavor of M193. I did once get pretty decent accuracy (again, by military ball standards) with some Bosnian M855.
Federal XM193 and Wolf Gold .223 are what I currently shoot the most of. Wolf Gold is alleged to basically just be Taiwanese M193 Although I kinda question if Wolf or any other ammo distributor would label 5.56 as .223 due to the potential issues involved. In any case I like Wolf Gold quite a bit as range ammo.
Thx for all the input--this is what's so great about M4c.
So I'm thinking about maybe just getting a case of the IMI 77gr. It's not the cheapest by far, but I can handle it and from a couple comments in this thread and what I see elsewhere, it is pretty accurate for the price even compared to BH blue box, and shoots well out of 1:7 barrels.
Any other 75-77gr I should look at? I see Hornady has a new cheaper line of blasting ammo I've never tried--Frontier. I see mixed reviews about that, looks like the feedback is not as consistently good as the IMI.
End of the day it's going to be what your barrel likes. If you have multiple ARs the trick is finding an ammo that all your guns like enough to get the job done.
I've shot a lot of Winchester, IMI, PMC, Federal, Remington, and Wolf. I think Wolf Gold is re-branded Taiwan commercial. All seem to be pretty good.
Independence in the white/blue box was VERY hot and flashy. Fiocchi (GFL and Perfecta head stamp) has meh brass if you're a reloader (the flash holes aren't centered in the pocket -- they're all over. Apparently $hitty enough to be able to write an explosives engineering Master's thesis: THE EFFECTS OF PHYSICAL FLASH HOLE DEVIATIONS ON FACTORY-GRADE RIFLE AMMUNITION (https://scholarsmine.mst.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=8415&context=masters_theses) ).
http://i.imgur.com/bI52hKGl.jpg
I wouldn't spend the extra money to buy Green Tip ammo unless you're shooting within 200 yards at big targets and just want it to go bang -- and use the brass for hand loading.
So here are a few 77gr 'bulk' or economy sub $1 per round factory loads I am checking out, besides the IMI 77gr. Comments welcome from anybody's who's tried them. The only of these I've ever tried was the BH red box, and it was excellent, though not quite as 'economy' as I'm looking for here, to stock up on. ETA, checking my ammo records I guess I did try some of the BH blue box 75gr loads like 8 years ago, was not super impressed with the accuracy for the price, versus other options at the time. Maybe they're better now.
Magtech 77gr BTHP First Defense 'Sniper' series (.56/rd)
https://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/pName/1000rds-5-56x45-magtech-77gr-hpbt-cannelured-matchking-ammo
Fiocchi 77gr BTHP (.70/rd)
https://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/pName/200rds-223-rem-fiocchi-77gr-matchking-hollow-point-ammo
Hornady Frontier 75gr BTHP (.44/rd)
https://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/pName/500rds-5-56x45-hornady-frontier-75gr-bthp-match-ammo
Black hills blue box 75gr (.66/rd)
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1339496167?pid=985423
PMC 77gr SMK OTM (.70/rd)
https://www.sgammo.com/product/223-556mm-ammo/200-round-case-223-rem-77-grain-smk-otm-match-ammunition-pmc-ammo-223xm
And the next bump up in accuracy/price, though still sub 1$:
Hornady 75gr Match (.87/rd)
https://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/pName/200rds-223-hornady-75gr-match-bthp-ammo
BH Red box 75gr (.83/rd)
https://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/pName/1000rds-223-black-hills-75gr-heavy-match-hollow-point-ammo
So here are a few 77gr 'bulk' or economy sub $1 per round factory loads I am checking out, besides the IMI 77gr. Comments welcome from anybody's who's tried them. The only of these I've ever tried was the BH red box, and it was excellent, though not quite as 'economy' as I'm looking for here, to stock up on.
Magtech 77gr BTHP (.56/rd)
https://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/pName/1000rds-5-56x45-magtech-77gr-hpbt-cannelured-matchking-ammo
Magtech 77gr SMK (0.68/rd)
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1020652937?pid=801254
Fiocchi 77gr BTHP (.70/rd)
https://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/pName/200rds-223-rem-fiocchi-77gr-matchking-hollow-point-ammo
Hornady Frontier 75gr BTHP (.44/rd)
https://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/pName/500rds-5-56x45-hornady-frontier-75gr-bthp-match-ammo
And the next bump up in accuracy/price, though still sub 1$:
Hornady 75gr Match (.87/rd)
https://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/pName/200rds-223-hornady-75gr-match-bthp-ammo
BH Red box 75gr (.83/rd)
https://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/pName/1000rds-223-black-hills-75gr-heavy-match-hollow-point-ammo
The Hornady Frontier 75gr is a solid 2 moa in all my guns. Can go lower but most of the time it's around 1.7 - 2 moa.
My 12.5" Hodge loves this stuff. Steve at Citizen Arms recommended it to me and I have been very impressed. I need to do more testing on all my rifles and find it bulk but it around .8 to 1.5 moa.
https://www.sgammo.com/product/223-556mm-ammo/200-round-case-223-rem-77-grain-smk-otm-match-ammunition-pmc-ammo-223xm
The Hornady Frontier 75gr is a solid 2 moa in all my guns. Can go lower but most of the time it's around 1.7 - 2 moa.
Good data point. For blasting ammo in a heavier bullet, that's not half bad. Especially considering that you can get it in large bulk for a per-round price that is WAY lower than most other 75-77gr bulk options.
My 12.5" Hodge loves this stuff. Steve at Citizen Arms recommended it to me and I have been very impressed. I need to do more testing on all my rifles and find it bulk but it around .8 to 1.5 moa.
https://www.sgammo.com/product/223-556mm-ammo/200-round-case-223-rem-77-grain-smk-otm-match-ammunition-pmc-ammo-223xm
Thx--updated the list in my post above, so it's all in one place.
Furbyballer
09-13-19, 06:25
My 12.5" Hodge loves this stuff. Steve at Citizen Arms recommended it to me and I have been very impressed. I need to do more testing on all my rifles and find it bulk but it around .8 to 1.5 moa.
https://www.sgammo.com/product/223-556mm-ammo/200-round-case-223-rem-77-grain-smk-otm-match-ammunition-pmc-ammo-223xm
This stuff shoots great but I have found better consistency with the fiocchi 223 77 and 69 grain loads over this.
ALSO I WOULD NOT USE HORNADY FRONTIER EVER. I bought about 3k of it when it was on sale, 55 otm and 75 otm and I have had nothing but problems with popped primers and even had a squib load. Im not talking 1 popped primer in a day, im talking multiples in a every magazine. I shit canned all of it.
Also the winchester 62 grain otm from sweeden is really really good shit for .30/round
This stuff shoots great but I have found better consistency with the fiocchi 223 77 and 69 grain loads over this.
ALSO I WOULD NOT USE HORNADY FRONTIER EVER. I bought about 3k of it when it was on sale, 55 otm and 75 otm and I have had nothing but problems with popped primers and even had a squib load. Im not talking 1 popped primer in a day, im talking multiples in a every magazine. I shit canned all of it.
Also the winchester 62 grain otm from sweeden is really really good shit for .30/round
What rifle had the popped primers?
What rifle had the popped primers?
Seems to be a take your pic. No pictures in the following thread so you will have to do some searches, but there does seem to be an issue with Frontier. From looking around it seems 55gr 5.56 was the worst, but not only. And Hornady's response claiming out of battery discharge due to dirty chambers isn't exactly confidence inspiring.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?217469-Frontier-5-56-55-grain
This stuff shoots great but I have found better consistency with the fiocchi 223 77 and 69 grain loads over this.
In what way have you seen better consistency? Group size? Gun to gun? Speed?
What are you averaging accuracy wise?
End of the day it's going to be what your barrel likes. If you have multiple ARs the trick is finding an ammo that all your guns like enough to get the job done.
Good point was thinking along the same line.
Looks like the highest probability option to start with that gets consensus good reviews everywhere, and few negative reviews about basic QC or reliability issues, is the IMI 77gr 'razor core.' Best price I currently see is .67/rd in 500rd or greater quantity. Some other loads like the Magtech 77gr stuff are available a little cheaper per rd, but I can't find anything other than a few anecdotal reports on its performance/quality, and not all are positive.
When you look at pricing, makes sense why a lot of guys stick with 55gr for bulk, since you can still get it in some cases < .30/rd. You'd be hard pressed to find any quality 77gr bulk for even close to that, closest I see is the Hornady Frontier 75gr at .44/rd. I can live with the extra cost for 77gr because I want even my bulk ammo to be a 77gr projectile that's useful for a wider range of things, including training with loads that have similar trajectories to my other loads, hunting, and having a greater max effective range. But yeah, if *cost* is someone's bottom line, IMI 77gr is roughly 2x the cost of their 55gr.
Looks like the highest probability option to start with that gets consensus good reviews everywhere, and few negative reviews about basic QC or reliability issues, is the IMI 77gr 'razor core.' Best price I currently see is .67/rd in 500rd or greater quantity...
I can live with the extra cost for 77gr because I want even my bulk ammo to be a 77gr projectile that's useful for a wider range of things, including training with loads that have similar trajectories to my other loads, hunting, and having a greater max effective range. But yeah, if *cost* is someone's bottom line, IMI 77gr is roughly 2x the cost of their 55gr.
Sure, if cost is no object, then just shoot premium ammo all the time... Why drink beer if you can afford champagne?!
Maybe I'm stingy, but 67¢/round is beyond my "this is worth it" threshhold for "practice" ammo.
I don't want to pay for that kind of performance to shoot at 25-50yds, which is where most of my shooting with my ARs happens.
(NB: I do have some FGMM and some Norma factory ammo loaded with 77gr SMKs, and I'm starting to reload .223, but that's for special occasions and longer distances.)
Even shooting 7.62NATO, milsurp ball ammo at 50¢/round seems like "too much" to me, so I'm starting to reload.
Sure, if cost is no object, then just shoot premium ammo all the time... Why drink beer if you can afford champagne?!
Maybe I'm stingy, but 67¢/round is beyond my "this is worth it" threshhold for "practice" ammo.
I don't want to pay for that kind of performance to shoot at 25-50yds, which is where most of my shooting with my ARs happens.
(NB: I do have some FGMM and some Norma factory ammo loaded with 77gr SMKs, and I'm starting to reload .223, but that's for special occasions and longer distances.)
Even shooting 7.62NATO, milsurp ball ammo at 50¢/round seems like "too much" to me, so I'm starting to reload.
Well I wouldn't say 'no object' in my case. And totally get the thrifty motive for bulk ammo--which I why I acknowledged it--maybe you missed the last para in my post that you replied to. :D But yeah, right now I can live with the cost of the 77gr bulk, it's still a big savings over actual match, hunting, or service loads, and has some advantages for my uses as I listed.
I don't want to pay for that kind of performance to shoot at 25-50yds, which is where most of my shooting with my ARs happens.
I feel like shooting a 77 gr OTM inside of 200 yards is robbing its soul. ;)
I feel like shooting a 77 gr OTM inside of 200 yards is robbing its soul. ;)
But what if you’re doing it for terminal ballistics? Asking for a friend.
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But what if you’re doing it for terminal ballistics? Asking for a friend.
That would be fulfilling its destiny.
Mr McSimon
09-19-19, 18:05
I hadn't seen this thread until recently, even though the original post was made a few months ago. I'll admit, I kinda panicked a little hearing MEN M193 was no longer available because coincidentally I just loaded up some magazines for this weekend with it and noticed my current stash is getting a little low. After looking around a little and confirming all my favorite places are out of stock, I started shopping for some IMI (or alternately Magtech) to replace it, based partly on this thread. That's when I found this nice little cache of awesomeness....
https://www.gunbuyer.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=men556a
...some MEN M193 in stock, which I promptly made an order of. I asked their online chat assistant to make sure it was on the floor before placing the order, and she said they have a couple of pallets available. $152.99 per case ($0.30) or $9.99 per box ($0.333) plus shipping. If there's still some left next pay day I'll probably go back for more, but in the meantime, grab it if you want it.
Kind of surprised only one person has mentioned Wolf Gold (which I think is basically m193). At under .30 per round I have found this ammo to be capable of approx. 1.5 MOA out of a number of different AR's. Is the IMI and CBC 77gr ammo better? Sure, but in my experience not worth paying twice as much for unless you are shooting at 300+ yards or interested in the ultimate in precision (in which case you should be hand loading or using match ammo).
Eurodriver
06-10-22, 10:16
Here are information sheets for 5.56 (the ammo itself, both M193 and 855):
https://www.northropgrumman.com/Capabilities/5-56mmAmmunition/Documents/5.56mmAmmunitionFactSheet.pdf
Note M193, fired through a test fixture, is supposed to do about a minute-of-angle (by average mean radius) at 200 yards.
The spec for the M4 and 855 together as a system (MIL-C-71186) is a 5-inch extreme spread at 100 yards (91.4 Meters).
If you want to dig deeper, goggle the mil specs ref'ed in the info sheets.
But but but I read on here constantly that guys are getting 1 MOA all day with a 4 MOA Red dot and a 16” CL AR!
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