View Full Version : Good News for a change-
https://www.foxnews.com/us/navy-seal-edward-gallagher-found-not-guilty-on-murder-and-attempted-murder-charges
Wonder if that final charge will screw his retirement.
Thank God and the good people making those decisions. I cant imagine how hard the job is to start with much less walking on egg shells for trying to determine who is the good / bad guy when it changes like the hours on a clock.
I don't know all the details but glad he is going mostly free. Only one charge for taking a pic. Not that this whole ordeal didn't bust his balls.
PB
My thoughts as well PB.
It is asking enough of someone to continually place their life on the line on our behalf, without having to second guess, or doubt their decisions because of current political correctness/media attention/etc.
That shit gets our people killed.
Seems fitting this verdict was reached close to the 4th of July.
Knowing only what I read about this case on news sites, what drove the prosecution? It seemed malicious to me.
The idea that this guy didn’t do any of the things that he was accused of, yet everyone went after him- including his own men, is insane. Good, innocent leaders and Senior NCO’s don’t get accused of these things.
BoringGuy45
07-03-19, 07:32
The idea that this guy didn’t do any of the things that he was accused of, yet everyone went after him- including his own men, is insane. Good, innocent leaders and Senior NCO’s don’t get accused of these things.
Maybe, but sending a guy potentially to death row for killing a member of the most brutal and vile terrorist organization on the planet right now--while in a war zone--sets extremely bad precedent.
The idea that this guy didn’t do any of the things that he was accused of, yet everyone went after him- including his own men, is insane. Good, innocent leaders and Senior NCO’s don’t get accused of these things.
Not all of his own guys went after him. There were more than a few that supported him, IIRC. And the medic that basically got his charge dropped was on his team.
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Sending him to death row is equally as insane, but as someone who fought the predecessor to ISIS in Iraq, I can tell you that the rules apply to everyone. I can also tell you that multiple members of a platoon don't rise up against their Chief just because he's a hardass. He almost certainly did most if not all of what he was accused of. He didn't deserve to die for it, but I'm not going to verbally fellate him because he has a trident.
As everyone who has ever served a day can attest- there are turds in all organizations and at all levels of the military.
sundance435
07-03-19, 10:24
Sending him to death row is equally as insane, but as someone who fought the predecessor to ISIS in Iraq, I can tell you that the rules apply to everyone. I can also tell you that multiple members of a platoon don't rise up against their Chief just because he's a hardass. He almost certainly did most if not all of what he was accused of. He didn't deserve to die for it, but I'm not going to verbally fellate him because he has a trident.
As everyone who has ever served a day can attest- there are turds in all organizations and at all levels of the military.
That's the consensus from folks I know who would have informed opinions on this. I am very admittedly out of my depth here, but every facet of this case is very bizarre and left a lot of lingering questions with me (but I'm glad there was a not guilty verdict on the major charges). People whose opinions I trust on this were uneasy about the whole thing, but especially Gallagher and all of the guys who testified for and against. They were glad he was not guilty because of all of the unintended consequences that could create for your average combat infantry/Marine (not to mention it was an ISIS fighter, so who really, actually cares), but I also got the impression that something is not right in the "elite" community, like a festering bad culture, especially within the SEALS. I certainly hope that's not the case and I'd readily chalk some problems up as fait accompli to the exponential rise in demand for SOF and the requisite increase in numbers.
I don't know. I still have a lot more questions than will ever be answered and I wouldn't put it past the government/military to scapegoat anyone or use this as misdirection as the simplest answer.
It looks like he was sentenced today on the remaining charge: time served and reduction in rank from E-7 (CPO) to E-6 (PO1C). He was not given a less-than-honorable discharge, although they could have done so.
So he's got close to 20 years in and I guess that means he'll be allowed to retire one of these days. I also assume that he's been an E-7 long enough that although he will retire as an E-6 his pay will reflect his "top 3" time as an E-7, correct?
That's the consensus from folks I know who would have informed opinions on this. I am very admittedly out of my depth here, but every facet of this case is very bizarre and left a lot of lingering questions with me (but I'm glad there was a not guilty verdict on the major charges). People whose opinions I trust on this were uneasy about the whole thing, but especially Gallagher and all of the guys who testified for and against. They were glad he was not guilty because of all of the unintended consequences that could create for your average combat infantry/Marine (not to mention it was an ISIS fighter, so who really, actually cares), but I also got the impression that something is not right in the "elite" community, like a festering bad culture, especially within the SEALS. I certainly hope that's not the case and I'd readily chalk some problems up as fait accompli to the exponential rise in demand for SOF and the requisite increase in numbers.
I don't know. I still have a lot more questions than will ever be answered and I wouldn't put it past the government/military to scapegoat anyone or use this as misdirection as the simplest answer.
Between this and the SEALS killing the Green Beret in Africa, as well as other serious issues the past few years, I think there's something wrong with their culture. If I were JCS Dunford, I'd order a top to bottom INDEPENDENT review of the entire program. They need to clear the decks and shape up most ricky tick.
As for Gallager, I don't know if he did or did not do what he's accused of. What I'm fairly certain of is that his men didn't make a report in a timely manner. I'm also fairly certain that the Navy engaged in dishonorable tactics during the prosecution and refuse to own it. They obviously had no evidence and if Gallager is a war criminal, then every one of them needs to point a finger in the mirror for letting him escape justice.
As is, justice was served and I'm pleasantly surprised they followed the rule of law over internal command and control concerns. This entire debacle reflects poorly on the Navy, so hopefully those responsible will learn a lesson and not be so foolish in the future. :(
The guy should have never been charged.
When you can't shoot actual terrorists, like members of ISIS, then just stop doing anything.
BoringGuy45
07-03-19, 21:23
I also got the impression that something is not right in the "elite" community, like a festering bad culture, especially within the SEALS. I certainly hope that's not the case and I'd readily chalk some problems up as fait accompli to the exponential rise in demand for SOF and the requisite increase in numbers.
What I'm saying here is secondhand info, but here it goes:
According guys in the know that I have talked to, the bad culture is mostly a SEAL issue, and it's especially bad with DEVGRU. Delta does not have this same issue, at least as a chronic, widespread problem like it is in their Naval counterparts, I think largely due to leadership, as well as from where and how their source their operators. The Rangers have long been squared away and self-correcting of this toxic behavior, almost to a fault, and the Special Forces are proud of their "quiet professional" moniker, and tend to be a lot less "cowboy" than the SEALs.
What's interesting is that this kind of crap is exactly what got the original SEAL Team Six shut down. I have to wonder if DEVGRU is going to get dissolved at some point. I mean, I almost wonder if they're even needed. Most of their missions can be carried out by the regular SEAL teams, and if there's a need for a "tier one" unit to do something, Delta has combat swimmers just as capable of operating at sea as DEVGRU operators.
The guy should have never been charged.
When you can't shoot actual terrorists, like members of ISIS, then just stop doing anything.
I agree 100%.
NYH1.
The guy should have never been charged.
When you can't shoot actual terrorists, like members of ISIS, then just stop doing anything.
In the interest of accuracy, he didn't shoot the POS. He stabbed the bastard while the medic (corpsman) was treating him for his wounds. Yeah, kinda brutal but personally I don't care. Scratch one terrorist as far as I'm concerned. But if you're going to do things like that for Pete's sake keep it on the down-low, don't take and send pics, etc.
In the interest of accuracy, he didn't shoot the POS. He stabbed the bastard while the medic (corpsman) was treating him for his wounds. Yeah, kinda brutal but personally I don't care. Scratch one terrorist as far as I'm concerned. But if you're going to do things like that for Pete's sake keep it on the down-low, don't take and send pics, etc.
According to the medic, he didn’t even do that. The medic admitted that he killed the kid and someone else testified that there were no knife wounds IIRC.
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According to the medic, he didn’t even do that. The medic admitted that he killed the kid and someone else testified that there were no knife wounds IIRC.
I knew about the corpsman occluding the endotracheal tube and asphyxiating him but didn't know the bolded part. Interesting.
Averageman
07-04-19, 17:26
This whole thing is a fluster cluck.
Nobody know for sure except the guys on the ground. The medic admitted to asphyxiating the terrorist, that pretty much ended the trial. During an interview the Chief somewhat insinuated that was started from inside his Team. The picture was enough evidence against the Chief to start this whole ball rolling.
I'm thinking if you want to fix this kind of thing you need to file charges against everyone who bore false witness and or lied under oath. Maximum pressure has to be applied and the house needs to be cleaned.
If this doesn't happen the next Chief in that Team and every Chief in the Navy we be left at the mercy of some conspiratorial malcontents.
I've seen this in the Military and once the dust settles, you know, it really just doesn't settle without some genuine Command influence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFe-n4Eu6Mw
Worth the watch.
How was he just an E7 with that many years? Are promotions that hard up in the teams?
How was he just an E7 with that many years? Are promotions that hard up in the teams?
No clue about the teams, but my brother-in-law retired at 21 years as an E7 with a stellar record and multiple combat deployments. He was out for a year recovering from being blown up, but returned to serve his last 5 years instead of taking a disability retirement.
My best friend was an E7 at 21 years as well, but he kind of deserved it since he was busted down in rank early in his career.
How was he just an E7 with that many years? Are promotions that hard up in the teams?I have always been under the impression that few of theses guys are in it for promotions, especially on the enlisted side. They are incentivized by the job itself.
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ffhounddog
07-05-19, 06:47
Having spent 14 months this last go in Mosul and Syria I am glad that he got off. Upset that they took a stripe but he should be able to retire as an E7 for pay I think last time I checked.
Now the big issue I have is they went after him without a shred of evidence that he did it but word of mouth.
Having spent 6 tours fighting these rejects after the next one if I go before my 20 is up I am retiring.
The_War_Wagon
07-05-19, 07:28
The guy should have never been charged.
When you can't shoot actual terrorists, like members of ISIS, then just stop doing anything.
This. My tax dollars aren't outfitting the SEALs to go and play paddy-cake with the enemy. :mad:
Averageman
07-05-19, 11:47
No clue about the teams, but my brother-in-law retired at 21 years as an E7 with a stellar record and multiple combat deployments. He was out for a year recovering from being blown up, but returned to serve his last 5 years instead of taking a disability retirement.
My best friend was an E7 at 21 years as well, but he kind of deserved it since he was busted down in rank early in his career.
If you really want to know how the pentagon and the various service departments balance strength, there is a 14 year old nerd with pimples, birth control glasses, wearing high water pants and a pocket protector rolling a twelve sided Dungeons and Dragons dice against each Departments Secretary.
Yeah I know it's BS, but it really sometimes makes about that much sense.
My observation as far as UCMJ goes is that the first 0-5 or above to decide the innocence or guilt of a Serviceman is going to ride that decision, right or wrong right in to the dirt.
Further evidence be damned, at some point that LTC or above is committed and someone, especially a NCO falling on their sword in some false charges BS means little or nothing to them.
If you really want to know how the pentagon and the various service departments balance strength, there is a 14 year old nerd with pimples, birth control glasses, wearing high water pants and a pocket protector rolling a twelve sided Dungeons and Dragons dice against each Departments Secretary.
Yeah I know it's BS, but it really sometimes makes about that much sense.
My observation as far as UCMJ goes is that the first 0-5 or above to decide the innocence or guilt of a Serviceman is going to ride that decision, right or wrong right in to the dirt.
Further evidence be damned, at some point that LTC or above is committed and someone, especially a NCO falling on their sword in some false charges BS means little or nothing to them.
And they expect you to willingly fall on that sword too. If you don't, then that just proves they're right about you and you're a discredit to the service.
Unless I missed something, this report says otherwise.
"Special Operator 1st Class Corey Scott, a SEAL Team Seven medic, revealed during cross-examination in the courtroom at Naval Base San Diego that he killed the fighter by asphyxiation. Scott testified that he saw Gallagher stab the fighter, but then he himself held his thumb over a breathing tube that had been inserted into the militant's mouth."
https://www.foxnews.com/us/medic-testifies-that-he-not-navy-seal-eddie-gallagher-was-responsible-for-isis-fighters-death
According to the medic, he didn’t even do that. The medic admitted that he killed the kid and someone else testified that there were no knife wounds IIRC.
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The only good jihadist is a dead jihadist. So long as innocents are not harmed, who really cares how these Islamist turds meet their end. I’m glad the charges were dropped.
The medic gets immunity to testify, and then testified he killed the isis fighter, but Gallagher still stabbed the isis fighter? Well that’s super convient and probably the single thing that got him off. I have some trouble believing the whole thing, other than Gallagher stabbed the fighter while he was receiving medical care, no one seems to claim that didn’t happen.
Why do all these stories and bad press come out about Devgru, but Delta never gets bad press? Would seem an issue of culture to me. All the different retired Delta guys I trained under struck me as the type that would never be caught up in this bullshit. I’ve never taken training from a seal so I can’t make an honest comparison there.
It seems to me in most any organization with a very tight fraternity like this you need to seriously piss your peers off for them to come forward against you. What did Gallagher do to piss all these poeple off into speaking out against him. Even if what he stands accused of isn’t true, he seriously rubbed some people the wrong way.
While I don’t think he should have gone to jail for any period of time he certainly should have been reprimanded and demoted. I mean have some fcuking decency, what moral person stabs a young man your team mate is administering first aid to? I get it, fcuk Isis and all that. But seriously kill them with some decency and morality. Otherwise what actually makes you better than them?
As some one else said about the SF soldier killed by seals in Africa. ‘Pirates doing pirate shit’
How is it the medic didn’t perjur himself? Obviously he had given his statement of events prior to open testimony in court so is he getting brought up on charges?
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Sending him to death row is equally as insane, but as someone who fought the predecessor to ISIS in Iraq, I can tell you that the rules apply to everyone. I can also tell you that multiple members of a platoon don't rise up against their Chief just because he's a hardass. He almost certainly did most if not all of what he was accused of. He didn't deserve to die for it, but I'm not going to verbally fellate him because he has a trident.
As everyone who has ever served a day can attest- there are turds in all organizations and at all levels of the military.
From everything I've been able to gather from this case, he had an agreement with some of the other corpsmen and SOCM medics in their outpost to provide a "special" echelons of care for any captured live ISIS fighters. The purpose of this was to prolong their lives, not for the sake of their laws of land warfare or medical obligations, but to extend the suffering of the patients.
Handing them over to the Iraqis would result in worse, so it was a jaded environment for a unit tasked with doing kinetic work, not acting as MPs safeguarding EPWs.
To jade it even further, none of these Daesh savages are uniformed combatants fighting for any particular nation.
The laws of land warfare still apply, but within the NSW community, they are taught from day 1 that they are special and if they have to break a few rules, no big deal.
There has been a troubling trend within Dev regarding mutilations, body part collections, scalping with hatchets, unnecessary canoeing of heads, and a rogue culture of barbarism that included gunning down civilians on their way to a wedding party, and after learning they had mistakenly targeted civilians, they just executed the rest of the caravan for sport.
I find it interesting that one of the SEALs who was close to Gallagher and now is in Dev came to his defense, whereas there were enough younger guys who seemed to have a problem with what happened.
Add in the NCIS misconduct and the whole thing balloons into a turd sandwich.
The only good jihadist is a dead jihadist. So long as innocents are not harmed, who really cares how these Islamist turds meet their end. I’m glad the charges were dropped.
Yep, it's like joining the klan. It's a long way from simply religion, it's going out of your way to join a violent death cult.
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