View Full Version : Reasons to upgrade NVGs? (binos, WP, etc)
Eurodriver
07-04-19, 08:37
With a standard PVS14 what is the cost/benefit of upgrading? Assuming there is no use for the 14 anymore, and you take a $1k hit by selling, is grabbing a set of 15s in green or WP worth it?
I like having one eye that retains natural night vision. After using NV for a few hours my monocular eye has an orange tint to it that is very dark. I don’t think I’d want both eyes looking like that.
Does depth perception really increase with binos that much? I’ve looked through them a bunch, but never walked around a mucky Texan cow pasture or Florida swamp or Iraqi desert with them as I have with 14s so I can’t base my purchase on experience which is something I always try to do.
It’s not really about the money, but it is. $8000+ is big money to do something that I can already do.
Its a good difference in depth perception. You can estimate distances better, and the view feels more natural, even if green. If you want to drive with them or move rapidly over terrain they help. Its also easier to read or use in varying light conditions, but that may be because all the 14’s I’ve used are older. 15s also provide a better image, but come with a weight/balance penalty. I always liked 6s better for balance, and the switched battery pack.
Coming out of my own pocket, I would probably stick to 14s unless you have money to burn. I think they're more versatile and better suited for realistic civilian use. I wouldn’t suggest upgrading until you have enough cash to buy the 15s and try them both side by side for a while, and see if they really give you an advantage in your typical uses.
Eurodriver
07-04-19, 10:56
Its a good difference in depth perception. You can estimate distances better, and the view feels more natural, even if green. If you want to drive with them or move rapidly over terrain they help. Its also easier to read or use in varying light conditions, but that may be because all the 14’s I’ve used are older. 15s also provide a better image, but come with a weight/balance penalty. I always liked 6s better for balance, and the switched battery pack.
Coming out of my own pocket, I would probably stick to 14s unless you have money to burn. I think they're more versatile and better suited for realistic civilian use. I wouldn’t suggest upgrading until you have enough cash to buy the 15s and try them both side by side for a while, and see if they really give you an advantage in your typical uses.
Thanks.
I’ve actually used these so much I feel pretty good driving and walking around despite the limited depth perception. My biggest gripe with 14s is actually the narrow focus “band”. It’s like I have to refocus at 5y 10y 25y 50y 100+ etc. not to mention seeing anything up close.
Is there a set of NV that is better at this? I can’t imagine SEALs raiding Bin Ladens house adjusting their NV focus every 30 seconds depending on room size. Am I wrong?
In a C130 over Iraq the crew let me use their binos. I believe they were ANVIS. I don’t recall them having the same issue but in hindsight they probably had the focus set for the cockpit because everything was crystal clear and there’s not much to see out the windshield anyway.
Aviation units have a test kit that helps with infinity focusing; primary use is for outside the cockpit, you look under the NVGs for in cockpit displays / tasks.
Most high speed ground units have binos or quad eyes, but I'm not sure there is adequate ROI on those for a hobbyist user like yourself.
There are drawbacks for both. It really depends on what you want them to do and how you are setting up your rifle. If you only plan to shoot with an IR laser then either will work just fine. But remember that is very limiting if other people also have NV. I saw a Big Army unit running around at nogjt in Afghanistan and it looked like some crazy Pink Floyd light show. They would have been cut to pieces if the enemy had NVG.
Also if you plan to shoot without a laser and use your reflex sight with NVG you will have to raise it up to a point that BUIS are useless. So you will need to have a dedicated night rifle.
Just food for thought.
Is there a set of NV that is better at this? I can’t imagine SEALs raiding Bin Ladens house adjusting their NV focus every 30 seconds depending on room size. Am I wrong?
You can use devices like the Tarsier Eclipse to assist with close quarters focus; ie blackout driving and using intruments on the dash or CQB. You'll need to insure you have a supplemental IR illum source if running these indoors due to the nature of how they work. With the ambient lighting in most CONUS structures you'll have more than enough to navigate, and if it gets too dark, that's why you have a PEQ/Vamp light.
I focus NODs to infinity and never touch them, especially binos. Even better with a 14 is that if shit goes white light I have an unaided eye to perform those tasks; medical/PUCing someone as an example. You can also just flip your NODs up when you're done doing the Swiggity Swooty shit.
For my money, I'd just go for the highest quality PVS-14 I could get and would invest the money savings in quality training time. $4,000 is a ton of ammo to train with under NODs.
Correction to above:
I'm going to ASSume you aren't setting charges under NODs, which would be a situation you would definitely need to manually focus them. This is where a low output headborne IR light and the Eclipse really shines, but if you have a properly set infinity focus ring it's not necessary to have anything other than IR illum.
For my money, I'd just go for the highest quality PVS-14 I could get and would invest the money savings in quality training time. $4,000 is a ton of ammo to train with under NODs.
I'd probably agree. I only had the 15s for a few nights and they were incredible, but I can't imagine dropping that much money on a single item for recreational use unless I had stupid amounts of spending money. Then again, I know TNVC does financing and if I didn't have any other debts, maybe. A big part of that would probably be that I'd still use them at work though.
Yeah, when 15s came out, everyone acted like suddenly you can’t possibly drive with 14s. Kinda like how some deer hunters act like a 30-30 can’t kill a modern up-armored deer. Obviously it doesn’t work like that. 15s are better, but they don’t make 14s useless.
I seem to remember having more “depth” of focus with 15s and 6s, but I haven’t used them in about 4 years, so take that with a grain of salt. You also have twice as many adjustments to make when you refocus, so theres that.
The way I always dealt with focus, even with 14s, was to set the focus further away, and just deal with the fuzziness up close, mostly. If I really needed to focus on something close, I would do so, and them refocus back to distance. If you work in the dark enough, its easy peasy.
Is there a set of NV that is better at this? I can’t imagine SEALs raiding Bin Ladens house adjusting their NV focus every 30 seconds depending on room size. Am I wrong?
The way to deal with that is to only use NODs indoors when silent clearing, which is done infrequently. Its mostly done on the visible spectrum. Because realistically, once your opening doors and such, theres a good chance everyone knows your there so the best bet is to work quickly and not be tripping over $h!t. Especially if your breaching, or if you’re shooting dudes.
The guys outside on security or isolation are, of course, using NODs.
Most of the time, as soon as you make entry you tilt your head to look under the NODs and work with white light, or flip them up. White light also helps you not trip boobytraps, or accidentally bypass a bad guy thats hiding. And its a submission tool.
So use the NODs and IR lasers/illuminators as you approach the target building to pie windows and doorways as much as possible, then look under the NVGs (or flip them up) as you go through the breach point. Use your RDS or whatever with white light. Violence of action. Then SSE/TQ as fast as possible and exfil or hit follow-ons with a sense of purpose. SSE should also be done with white light.
I'd probably agree. I only had the 15s for a few nights and they were incredible, but I can't imagine dropping that much money on a single item for recreational use unless I had stupid amounts of spending money. Then again, I know TNVC does financing and if I didn't have any other debts, maybe. A big part of that would probably be that I'd still use them at work though.
Almost everything is better under binos, but how much that "better" is worth is up to someone to decide. I can not justify the cost difference when I can do every task I need as a Civ with my personal 14 just as well as my work binos.
Correction to above:
I'm going to ASSume you aren't setting charges under NODs, which would be a situation you would definitely need to manually focus them. This is where a low output headborne IR light and the Eclipse really shines, but if you have a properly set infinity focus ring it's not necessary to have anything other than IR illum.
Should be able to tie in a prebuilt breaching charge without focusing.
Should be able to tie in a prebuilt breaching charge without focusing.
I'm trying to play devils advocate and think of reasons it could be necessary to not focus to infinity. They're few and far between and easy enough to just refocus back out if the infinity focus ring is set properly.
This is very much your domain given the community you come from and I'm silently nodding in agreement with your explanation of NODs+white light TTPs above. I run ANVIS' slightly higher in my FOV so I can peak under them for every reason you mentioned above.
Also Euro:
You can also get one of these in size 09A and drill a 6mm hole in the center for a quick focus cap. Lets you continue to use a cheaper sacrificial lens and you can pop it right off if you decide it's not worth the hassle. I'm not sure if they will work over a magnetic compass or not if that's something you use.
https://www.amazon.com/Butler-Creek-Flip-Open-Eye-Piece-Scope/dp/B000GU9Q2C?th=1&psc=1
If I had 8 K to drop on NV I'd be looking at thermal.
I'm trying to play devils advocate .....snip....I run ANVIS' slightly higher in my FOV so I can peak under them for every reason you mentioned above I can definitely appreciate the logic you presented. And this is exactly how Bino NODs should be set up to enable the transition to white light.
If I had 8 K to drop on NV I'd be looking at thermal.
Thermals come with their own drawbacks, depending on intended use. Such as window glass. But when they have the opportunities to show their advantages, they are awesome. I would only consider them as an individual in conjunction with 14s or 15s or whatever. Unless I’m just trying to whack some critters.
Thermals come with their own drawbacks, depending on intended use. Such as window glass. But when they have the opportunities to show their advantages, they are awesome. I would only consider them as an individual in conjunction with 14s or 15s or whatever. Unless I’m just trying to whack some critters.
Also if there are fires all over the place. The heat throws everything off. Best possible situation is a thermal and on to a PVS14 so that you can remove it if need be.
I can definitely appreciate the logic you presented. And this is exactly how Bino NODs should be set up to enable the transition to white light.
Thermals come with their own drawbacks, depending on intended use. Such as window glass. But when they have the opportunities to show their advantages, they are awesome. I would only consider them as an individual in conjunction with 14s or 15s or whatever. Unless I’m just trying to whack some critters.
Exactly. Overlay is what wizards use
Eurodriver
07-04-19, 14:16
There is so much knowledge in this thread.
Thank you guys. Keep it coming.
Thermals eat batteries too. At least the MG ones most units are issued. Heard the same about PSQ 20s too, but I haven’t used those yet.
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SeriousStudent
07-04-19, 18:20
There is so much knowledge in this thread.
Thank you guys. Keep it coming.
Indeed. It's now a sticky.
Indeed. It's now a sticky.
One of these days we’ll grow to necessitating a NV sub-section.
[emoji848][emoji6][emoji4]
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You could go the “poor man’s” route, and get another 14 and bridge mount.
Outlander Systems
07-04-19, 21:14
Screw that noise. If you’re not going whole hog on a dedicated set of Binos, **** another 14; slap a FLIR Breach on that second eyeball with a flippy boi bridge and rotate/season-to-taste.
You could go the “poor man’s” route, and get another 14 and bridge mount.
Screw that noise. If you’re not going whole hog on a dedicated set of Binos, **** another 14; slap a FLIR Breach on that second eyeball with a flippy boi bridge and rotate/season-to-taste.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190705/0d2e034fb3bf889f87db9f997b93fba3.jpg
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Screw that noise. If you’re not going whole hog on a dedicated set of Binos, **** another 14; slap a FLIR Breach on that second eyeball with a flippy boi bridge and rotate/season-to-taste.
Or just get a COTI.
Screw that noise. If you’re not going whole hog on a dedicated set of Binos, **** another 14; slap a FLIR Breach on that second eyeball with a flippy boi bridge and rotate/season-to-taste.
Eurodriver inquired about bino’s. Another PVS14 and bridge mount is the least expensive route with the least amount of loss if it doesn’t fit his needs. I have 2xPVS14’s and a bridge mount, but wish I had a set of bino’s. If the experience is desired, my suggestion is valid.
I have reached the conclusion, for myself, that a PVS14 and thermal on a bridge mount could fit my use better. But, I’ll still have two 14’s.
Advantage of a pair of 14s is the fact that you have two. Basically equal the performance of binos and have the ability to split for another user if needed, mount one on a weapon or still have NV if a unit goes down. I believe that 85-90% of the work can be done with 14s and would have to think hard about the other 10%. Honestly I not sure that WP or binos give you anymore depth vs green. Its a individual eye thing honestly. The BIG plus to dual system is wearing NV for long hours and pistol shooting with a red dot. Also the ability to shoot your rifle passive on your RDS NV settings if your equipped.
The previous comment about building a NV gun I believe is just. There are things you will want like a higher RDS mount.
I ran bridged 14s for a long time and the only negative is weight and honestly if set up correctly with a really good bridge and counter weight its very manageable. I can do everything under NV that I can do in the daylight and that should be your training goal. The only time I change my focus from infinity is if I know I am going into house type structure where the rooms are to be short in depth as in 20 feet or less. Everything under NV has to become slower and much more purposeful. Remember NV brings stealth and stealth brings security.
Your comment about your eye under your 14 makes me think you have your gain adjusted too high. Try adjusting it down and that will help as well as give you much more depth and contrast with the shadows or dark areas. Having the gain turned all the way up doesn't help you see in the dark better. It actually causes more eye fatigue and makes it harder to look around or beyond your 14. If you can try pushing your unit out away from your eye as well, at least an inch. Many times guys get sucked into the tube and get stuck in it. Focus front, back and sharpen finally in the front one last time.
I am deep in the NV game. I dont know what you have in the way of your IR laser/illuminator but you might want to consider that before binos. The MAWL is game changing and should be on your list if not already on your rifle. IR illumination is very important if you want to take full advantage of your NV especially at distance for positive ID or actually want to see what your laser is pointed at.
The thought of having NV as an BIG edge if SHTF is somewhat slimming. Lots of guys as a result of the GWOT have the training and night hunting is the fastest growing segment in the hunting industry. Be able and equipped to work passive as well.
Eurodriver
07-05-19, 08:15
Advantage of a pair of 14s is the fact that you have two. Basically equal the performance of binos and have the ability to split for another user if needed, mount one on a weapon or still have NV if a unit goes down. I believe that 85-90% of the work can be done with 14s and would have to think hard about the other 10%. Honestly I not sure that WP or binos give you anymore depth vs green. Its a individual eye thing honestly. The BIG plus to dual system is wearing NV for long hours and pistol shooting with a red dot. Also the ability to shoot your rifle passive on your RDS NV settings if your equipped.
The previous comment about building a NV gun I believe is just. There are things you will want like a higher RDS mount.
I ran bridged 14s for a long time and the only negative is weight and honestly if set up correctly with a really good bridge and counter weight its very manageable. I can do everything under NV that I can do in the daylight and that should be your training goal. The only time I change my focus from infinity is if I know I am going into house type structure where the rooms are to be short in depth as in 20 feet or less. Everything under NV has to become slower and much more purposeful. Remember NV brings stealth and stealth brings security.
Your comment about your eye under your 14 makes me think you have your gain adjusted too high. Try adjusting it down and that will help as well as give you much more depth and contrast with the shadows or dark areas. Having the gain turned all the way up doesn't help you see in the dark better. It actually causes more eye fatigue and makes it harder to look around or beyond your 14. If you can try pushing your unit out away from your eye as well, at least an inch. Many times guys get sucked into the tube and get stuck in it. Focus front, back and sharpen finally in the front one last time.
I am deep in the NV game. I dont know what you have in the way of your IR laser/illuminator but you might want to consider that before binos. The MAWL is game changing and should be on your list if not already on your rifle. IR illumination is very important if you want to take full advantage of your NV especially at distance for positive ID or actually want to see what your laser is pointed at.
The thought of having NV as an BIG edge if SHTF is somewhat slimming. Lots of guys as a result of the GWOT have the training and night hunting is the fastest growing segment in the hunting industry. Be able and equipped to work passive as well.
Good post. I have two full power PEQs on my rifles and a G19 with both an RMR and an x400V. The G19 is sneaky. Talk about passive and active use. It takes about 0.5 seconds to switch. In fact, 99% of my shooting is done passive with that but the laser makes it so easy to shoot out of vehicles or in unconventional positions. It’s almost cheating. I have a twist base for my rifles with T2s and can run passive on them by putting my 14 behind them, I’ve been doing that since TNVC released their mount years ago but the problem then is that I cannot see unless my rifle is pointed at something. You certainly can’t walk like that. A dual 14 helmet mount would be great for that.
I’ve found POI shifts when using a 14 on my left eye and a day optic on my right. Is that just me or what? I understand the concept but it doesn’t seem very precise for me.
Still, as you said, it’s interesting how much NV is picking up. A decade ago no one had night vision. No one. Now it’s almost “common” among guys. In a SHTF scenario I used to imagine it being a force multiplier. Now it seems more likely just a force equalizer.
I know the Mawl represents a true paradigm shift but I’ve already got the PEQs and the training to go with them. That’s money I’d rather dump on ammo.
ETA: I do always max out the gain on NV. I’ll play with it and see what that does.
In a SHTF scenario I used to imagine it being a force multiplier. Now it seems more likely just a force equalizer.
I don’t know about all that. I’d be pretty surprised if more than 300 guys in the country have good NODs (14 or better), a laser, and know how to use both well. And the vast majority of them probably roll in the same circles. There may be tons of hunters and the like with NVG capability, but we all know that doesn’t necessarily mean shit. Even with those guys factored in, I’d be surprised if 5% of the population has NODs.
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I don’t know about all that. I’d be pretty surprised if more than 300 guys in the country have good NODs (14 or better), a laser, and know how to use both well. And the vast majority of them probably roll in the same circles. There may be tons of hunters and the like with NVG capability, but we all know that doesn’t necessarily mean shit. Even with those guys factored in, I’d be surprised if 5% of the population has NODs.
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Then you would be VERY surprised. I did a 2 gun match a few yesrs ago that was NVG only. There were at least 50 competing and all of the oters there and we all had quality products. So at least 100 total with NV..... give or take.
I also know many people that have them. I would bet there are at least 300 people in my county that have quality NVG. My local FFL also sells them and the PVS 14 and 7B are their top seller. But then again this is Texas.
You are also forgetting about all of the other NV devices out there that work in some limited way. I can think of several lower quality ones that work just fine that i have....... the NV capability of the Ring on my doorbel, the backup camera on my car and truck and even the camera on my phone has one.
Outlander Systems
07-06-19, 11:11
This. My dapartment Head isn’t even into tactical stuff, and just bought a PVS-14 for hunting.
Then you would be VERY surprised. I did a 2 gun match a few yesrs ago that was NVG only. There were at least 50 competing and all of the oters there and we all had quality products. So at least 100 total with NV..... give or take.
I also know many people that have them. I would bet there are at least 300 people in my county that have quality NVG. My local FFL also sells them and the PVS 14 and 7B are their top seller. But then again this is Texas.
You are also forgetting about all of the other NV devices out there that work in some limited way. I can think of several lower quality ones that work just fine that i have....... the NV capability of the Ring on my doorbel, the backup camera on my car and truck and even the camera on my phone has one.
Eurodriver
07-06-19, 11:11
Yeah idk about all that 300 guys stuff.
I personally have shot with 10. I doubt I know 3% of all NV equipped and knowledgeable shooters in the US.
Every Marine since GWOT started has had NV training with lasers (1m+) Every Marine who’s even done 10% more than the baseline knows the advantages of passive vs active, IR laser discipline, zeroing procedures, etc.
When Hurricanes take power out it’s interesting seeing the types of people wandering in the streets. It’s not just a “SHTF” thing.
Outlander Systems
07-06-19, 12:26
https://youtu.be/VAQnwKMMW2w
Ok cool, make me feel poor for not even knowing people with NODs.
On a real note, I’d be surprised if anyone besides our 11 series use PEQs in BCT and AIT. We did one fam fire back in 2011, I want to say they did a rough zero on 10 M4s and rotated people through them for a few rounds which is bullshit. Hopefully that’s improved now that they’re adding two more months.
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Outlander Systems
07-06-19, 14:14
If you have more than two ARs, offload one and get a 14. Ride the poverty lightning in style.
Ok cool, make me feel poor for not even knowing people with NODs.
On a real note, I’d be surprised if anyone besides our 11 series use PEQs in BCT and AIT. We did one fam fire back in 2011, I want to say they did a rough zero on 10 M4s and rotated people through them for a few rounds which is bullshit. Hopefully that’s improved now that they’re adding two more months.
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If you have more than two ARs, offload one and get a 14. Ride the poverty lightning in style.
I’ve had to send back my last three uppers - a Noveske, BCM, and then my brand new KAC. I never liked the one is none expression, but I’m 100% a believer in backup guns. Plus there are two shooters in my house, so I need four. Also with the market this soft, I’d be lucky to get enough to cover half the cost of a 14. Pistols are next before I go to NOD but at least I should be getting 15s or PSQs at my next job I think.
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I'd probably agree. I only had the 15s for a few nights and they were incredible, but I can't imagine dropping that much money on a single item for recreational use unless I had stupid amounts of spending money. Then again, I know TNVC does financing and if I didn't have any other debts, maybe. A big part of that would probably be that I'd still use them at work though.
He has stupid amounts of money. His screen name is Eurodriver and he already own 14's is a clue. Just saying.
Guys how do you bridge two 14's, throwing them on a helmet? Anybody got a pic? Euro is going to hurt my pocketbook if he keeps this up.
PB
Ok cool, make me feel poor for not even knowing people with NODs.
On a real note, I’d be surprised if anyone besides our 11 series use PEQs in BCT and AIT. We did one fam fire back in 2011, I want to say they did a rough zero on 10 M4s and rotated people through them for a few rounds which is bullshit. Hopefully that’s improved now that they’re adding two more months.
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What kind of units have you been in? I was a medic in 10MTN and the 82 back in the 1990s before i went into SOF and everyone shot with a PEQ4s and PVS7Bs. Our supply guys and mechanics and even the PAC jokers. Hell, even our FSB folks did becuse i have coverd their rangers so their medics could shoot. ........ what kind of unit sre you in? Like a COSCOM or something? Not trying to be a jerk or anything. Just wondering if Big Army has truly sh!t the bed on training.
contax_shooter
07-06-19, 16:54
Ok cool, make me feel poor for not even knowing people with NODs.
On a real note, I’d be surprised if anyone besides our 11 series use PEQs in BCT and AIT. We did one fam fire back in 2011, I want to say they did a rough zero on 10 M4s and rotated people through them for a few rounds which is bullshit. Hopefully that’s improved now that they’re adding two more months.
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I can confirm that a basic Army Reserve engineer company, holds annual weapons qualifications with night time tables using PEQ-15’s and PVS-14’s with standard M4 configurations. I won’t go much into detail on what else they’re capable of doing under nods on a regular basis.
What kind of units have you been in? I was a medic in 10MTN and the 82 back in the 1990s before i went into SOF and everyone shot with a PEQ4s and PVS7Bs. Our supply guys and mechanics and even the PAC jokers. Hell, even our FSB folks did becuse i have coverd their rangers so their medics could shoot. ........ what kind of unit sre you in? Like a COSCOM or something? Not trying to be a jerk or anything. Just wondering if Big Army has truly sh!t the bed on training.
I was just talking about basic and AIT since I assumed euro’s post about every Marine getting time on them was referencing boot camp. My story was from OSUT in 2011 but my DS were lazy. They didn’t even teach us how to shoot, they took us to the EST, then just gave us the M4s and told us to go.
More to your actual question, I’ve spent all of my active time in an IBCT. Most of that was in the brigade support battalion but one year was in the forward support company of an IN BN. Whether it was the FSC or BSB, neither of those units were MTOE’d PEQs. We had a mix of 7s and 14s, and thermals for the MGs, but no PEQs of any type. The last BSB CDR before I left pushed for a while and we were finally able to buy 10 for our base defense guys which is a start, but I’m surprised we weren’t at least MTOE’d PEQ 2s. The struggle is real when you’re trying to use the chevron from your ACOG on your open eye and a 14 on the other eye to have a decent aiming solution against Geronimo.
The few days I had with 15s was in direct support of SOF at a JRTC rotation and they were bros so they hooked me up.
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He has stupid amounts of money. His screen name is Eurodriver and he already own 14's is a clue. Just saying.
Guys how do you bridge two 14's, throwing them on a helmet? Anybody got a pic? Euro is going to hurt my pocketbook if he keeps this up.
PB
There are numerous options to bridge two 14s. Nothing in the NV world is cheap and honestly you do typically get what you pay for in this arena. Here are just a few examples which should give you an idea if you click on the photos and look through all of them.
https://tnvc.com/shop/wilcox-binocular-bridge-system-anpvs-14-dovetail/
https://tnvc.com/shop/tnvc-pvs-14-non-powered-bridge-mount-dovetail-npbm-d/
https://tnvc.com/shop/n-vision-advanced-dual-pvs-14-bridge-mount/
Eurodriver
07-07-19, 05:56
RE: Bridge mounts. Has anyone noticed eye strain using two sets of 14s that aren’t matched? Like one has a blem or different color that gives you a headache over time? I like the idea of a bridge mount for all the reasons mentioned in this thread but I can’t tell what of the above is true and what is said by Bino NV manufacturers to sell 15s
He has stupid amounts of money. His screen name is Eurodriver and he already own 14's is a clue. Just saying.
Guys how do you bridge two 14's, throwing them on a helmet? Anybody got a pic? Euro is going to hurt my pocketbook if he keeps this up.
PB
Lol. For the record I do not have stupid amounts of money. I just have stupid low expenses and NV shooting was my only hobby. No kids. No family. No student loans. It took me a while to realize not everyone prioritizes NV in the same way I do.
I don’t fault Wake for not buying NV. I got several buddies into it and while they like shooting, they go maybe once every two years. What a waste of money, but at the same time the option is available to them every night they just choose not to (because they are little bitches)
Ok cool, make me feel poor for not even knowing people with NODs.
On a real note, I’d be surprised if anyone besides our 11 series use PEQs in BCT and AIT. We did one fam fire back in 2011, I want to say they did a rough zero on 10 M4s and rotated people through them for a few rounds which is bullshit. Hopefully that’s improved now that they’re adding two more months.
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That’s very interesting. Maybe it’s only line battalions who really use the stuff in the Marine Corps but I’m 100% positive every Marine even the POGs use NV and lasers as part of MCT and for pre deployment training in the last decade. Maybe if you don’t deploy your only experience will be at MCT which is pretty weak and limited. But definitely even POGs who are deploying are getting NV training.
Getting a bit off topic here, but I think being rounded in your equipment and skills is important for being a good citizen. If you how the means and availability to use it, NVGs and lasers make a whole bunch of sense over having 25 AR15s of mediocre quality. That’s my biggest gripe with guys who say they can’t afford it. (Same with good guns and optics). If you’ve got literally dozens of guns in your safe but they’re all Del-ton and holosun stuff...why?
Nobody goes out and buys 25 Hyundai Elantras over a Ferrari...
RE: Bridge mounts. Has anyone noticed eye strain using two sets of 14s that aren’t matched? Like one has a blem or different color that gives you a headache over time? I like the idea of a bridge mount for all the reasons mentioned in this thread but I can’t tell what of the above is true and what is said by Bino NV manufacturers to sell 15s
This may not be much help, because I don’t have much experience with dual 14’s. I have only used them a few times for about an hour each time. I have the N-vision bridge mount. My 14’s aren’t matching and one has a minor blemish, but I didn’t notice more strain than usual. I believe the main consideration is counterweight. I didn’t have enough counterweight, and did get a headache from the added pressure on my forehead. I use a Team Wendy bump helmet.
contax_shooter
07-07-19, 09:16
I wouldn’t bridge PVS-14’s. A dedicated bino should be top priority if you’re contemplating duals.
You’re not a Marine anymore, buy and use equipment that enhances your capabilities. Internet commando bravado with being able to shoot 500m on irons with an M16A2 is for the birds. I’ll use every advantage I can with a fully equipped rail and a Geissele SSA 2-stage trigger. We’re not confined by unit/branch SOP as “civilians.”
Eurodriver
07-07-19, 09:48
I wouldn’t bridge PVS-14’s. A dedicated bino should be top priority if you’re contemplating duals.
You’re not a Marine anymore, buy and use equipment that enhances your capabilities. Internet commando bravado with being able to shoot 500m on irons with an M16A2 is for the birds. I’ll use every advantage I can with a fully equipped rail and a Geissele SSA 2-stage trigger. We’re not confined by unit/branch SOP as “civilians.”
Sell me binos
RE: Bridge mounts. Has anyone noticed eye strain using two sets of 14s that aren’t matched? Like one has a blem or different color that gives you a headache over time? I like the idea of a bridge mount for all the reasons mentioned in this thread but I can’t tell what of the above is true and what is said by Bino NV manufacturers to sell 15s
Making night vision tubes is more of an art than science, tubes from the same batch made the same way at the same time will all have little differences. Having to grade and match tubes is one reason for the high costs of bino's and is even worse for quads. Two 14's and a bridge mount might or might not cause problems after an hour or two of use but bino's have to be good for all night long and possibly multiple nights. If you can get them now for $8,000 which is not that much higher than the price of two 14's that's a really good price, I remember when bino's used to run $12-15,000.
Sell me binos
NOPE cant do that yet, its a BIG decision and has to be yours. Absolutely nothing at all wrong with running dual bridged 14s with a good bridge and properly counter weighted. YES the system is ounces more than the coolest BNVDs. Obviously you want the tubes in dual roll to match but too many guys get all caught up in the numbers when in most cases the differences cant be detected by most. Doubtful you would see the difference in 2500 and 2250 FOM specs and there are other numbers than FOM to consider.
I had and have no issue running dual PVS14s. As long as I have manual gain control I have no eye fatigue issues even after hours of use. It started for me taking a night vision class where I could rent the gear to evaluate what I wanted to buy. Shortly after that I ran into a guy selling all his NV stuff at an incredible price and he ran dual 14s with all the end accessories so that is really where I began. Recently, my son has joined the cause and having duals made it very easy to split and now have the enjoyment of two guns in the fight. Two can be one and one can be two which is really pretty handy. Now, after a six month hunt for the correct unit and really ramping up the nighttime ability I bought myself a set of dedicated binos. Lets call them my Harley only a lot cheaper. In fact less than most spend on additional chrome.
Listen with a single 14 can you do it all and the gain in ability is slight with binos or even White Phos. Its not like having irons vs a red dot difference so says the guy who just spent 10K. If I already had a good 14 my next purchase would be a MAWL. After that I would look into another 14 or dedicated binos.
I 100% agree with your justifying of the cost. Like many on this forum I too had/have a truck load of firearms. When I was younger I thought more was better until I learned that less is more. Handfuls of useless revolvers to me on top of hunting rifles and shotguns in all calibers and gauges for some dumb reason while all along questioning the cost of night vision. I guess those investments made while being younger now pay for and justify today's desires.
Take the time to think it really through and keep all the options open.
Did I convince you to buy binos yet? Which ones?
Eurodriver
07-07-19, 13:32
NOPE cant do that yet, its a BIG decision and has to be yours. Absolutely nothing at all wrong with running dual bridged 14s with a good bridge and properly counter weighted. YES the system is ounces more than the coolest BNVDs. Obviously you want the tubes in dual roll to match but too many guys get all caught up in the numbers when in most cases the differences cant be detected by most. Doubtful you would see the difference in 2500 and 2250 FOM specs and there are other numbers than FOM to consider.
I had and have no issue running dual PVS14s. As long as I have manual gain control I have no eye fatigue issues even after hours of use. It started for me taking a night vision class where I could rent the gear to evaluate what I wanted to buy. Shortly after that I ran into a guy selling all his NV stuff at an incredible price and he ran dual 14s with all the end accessories so that is really where I began. Recently, my son has joined the cause and having duals made it very easy to split and now have the enjoyment of two guns in the fight. Two can be one and one can be two which is really pretty handy. Now, after a six month hunt for the correct unit and really ramping up the nighttime ability I bought myself a set of dedicated binos. Lets call them my Harley only a lot cheaper. In fact less than most spend on additional chrome.
Listen with a single 14 can you do it all and the gain in ability is slight with binos or even White Phos. Its not like having irons vs a red dot difference so says the guy who just spent 10K. If I already had a good 14 my next purchase would be a MAWL. After that I would look into another 14 or dedicated binos.
I 100% agree with your justifying of the cost. Like many on this forum I too had/have a truck load of firearms. When I was younger I thought more was better until I learned that less is more. Handfuls of useless revolvers to me on top of hunting rifles and shotguns in all calibers and gauges for some dumb reason while all along questioning the cost of night vision. I guess those investments made while being younger now pay for and justify today's desires.
Take the time to think it really through and keep all the options open.
Did I convince you to buy binos yet? Which ones?
Think you misunderstood a little joke between Contax and I. He has a buddy’s set of binos that I want to buy off him.
The work bossman has given approval for white phosphor NODs / helmet / mount, plus IR / Vis laser & IR illuminator. Likely just mono tube NODs.
Good recommendations of what and where to get it?
Thanks
The work bossman has given approval for white phosphor NODs / helmet / mount, plus IR / Vis laser & IR illuminator. Likely just mono tube NODs.
Good recommendations of what and where to get it?
Thanks
But what’s the budget?
https://tnvc.com/shop/ngi-pvs-14-photonis-4g-echo-hybrid-photocathode-gen-2/
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Outlander Systems
07-24-19, 13:09
This is, quite possibly, the best price/quality option on the Night Vision market.
But what’s the budget?
https://tnvc.com/shop/ngi-pvs-14-photonis-4g-echo-hybrid-photocathode-gen-2/
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Those would be fine, I'm expecting $3K-ish for the NODS, plus helmet setup, then maybe DBAL price ranges of $1K give or take for the laser / IR laser.
Maybe $5-7K per setup (2-3 kits).
But what’s the budget?
$5-7K all in per unit.
LE purchases?
Gov pricing on PEQs is sweet
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Not LE, but we might have an avenue for a .gov purchase.
You really need to consider the B.E. Meyers MAWL. Nothing comes close to it for an IR laser/illuminator. If money was an issue I would by a lesser quality tube to afford the MAWL.
Outlander Systems
07-24-19, 20:11
The B.E. Meyers MAWL-C1+ represents a true paradigm shift in laser system design.
You really need to consider the B.E. Meyers MAWL. Nothing comes close to it for an IR laser/illuminator. If money was an issue I would by a lesser quality tube to afford the MAWL.
The B.E. Meyers MAWL-C1+ represents a true paradigm shift in laser system design.
Unbelievable
If only it was on par with KT tape
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Mike Miller
08-12-20, 16:57
Eurodriver, do headaches factor into your decision making process on whether to upgrade to binos?
I was an 0311 from 2005-2009 (2/6 Fox), and using a PVS14 used to give me a headache if I used it for more than an hour. But I haven't been able to use one since to know if it could be alleviated with a different helmet suspension system, and I didn't know at the time that turning down the gain could help some.
Did you get headaches in service, and if so, does your current set up alleviate them?
edit : maybe I missed it, I've seen other people in this thread talk about fatigue from 14s, just not your experience with it
As my stock investment continues, I watch this thread. I am torn on pvs14 vs binos.
Long story short, I want a mawl and nods for $2800. I put that into the market in march and have now used very limited, a 14 and BNVDs. I'm still torn. 14 with gain turned down was fine. Bnvd felt more natural...but I didnt feel all that more capable...and 3-4k dolla saved is quantifiable capability too...
As my stock investment continues, I watch this thread. I am torn on pvs14 vs binos.
Long story short, I want a mawl and nods for $2800. I put that into the market in march and have now used very limited, a 14 and BNVDs. I'm still torn. 14 with gain turned down was fine. Bnvd felt more natural...but I didnt feel all that more capable...and 3-4k dolla saved is quantifiable capability too...
I would personally invest in the best PVS-14 you can find vs a pair of binos. The 3-4k you'll save on bottom tier binos vs top tier -14 is a significant training investment, as well as freeing up funds to further optimize your rifle and pistol setups to work with NODs.
Just my opinion. I currently have two jobs that issue me binos (Flight Medic and SRT Medic; funny enough, I use ANVIS' at both) and I own a -14 with a far better tube in it than either pair of binos. I don't feel under equipped with my personal NOD at all.
*ETA- it's been my experience in both the military and out that the majority of my time under NODs is spent navigating. My PVS-14 has a filmless L3 WP tube with an FOM of 1907 (64lp/mm and S:N 29.8), and it absolutely destroys both pairs of ANVIS' in low light performance. So much so, that I have no desire to pick up binos unless the tubes are on par with what's in my -14.
I would personally invest in the best PVS-14 you can find vs a pair of binos. The 3-4k you'll save on bottom tier binos vs top tier -14 is a significant training investment, as well as freeing up funds to further optimize your rifle and pistol setups to work with NODs.
Just my opinion. I currently have two jobs that issue me binos (Flight Medic and SRT Medic; funny enough, I use ANVIS' at both) and I own a -14 with a far better tube in it than either pair of binos. I don't feel under equipped with my personal NOD at all.
*ETA- it's been my experience in both the military and out that the majority of my time under NODs is spent navigating. My PVS-14 has a filmless L3 WP tube with an FOM of 1907 (64lp/mm and S:N 29.8), and it absolutely destroys both pairs of ANVIS' in low light performance. So much so, that I have no desire to pick up binos unless the tubes are on par with what's in my -14.
If you were to participate "against yourself" in a FoF scenario, you would prefer to have the PVS-14 over the ANVIS?
If you were to participate "against yourself" in a FoF scenario, you would prefer to have the PVS-14 over the ANVIS?
Sure.
Sure.
You don't find the lack of depth/only one eye to be limiting when moving/shooting and moving?
You don't find the lack of depth/only one eye to be limiting when moving/shooting and moving?
Its really not that big of a deal because your head is always moving. A better tube will be a better device.
For driving, depth perception becomes more important, but you are also limited to driving only as fast as you can see. So if we have low illumination, tubes that suck, will suck, even if bino.
I loved the 6’s I was issued, though.
You don't find the lack of depth/only one eye to be limiting when moving/shooting and moving?
I don't, no. I also have 3 years cumulative deployed where I had PVS-14s and climbed mountains, drove vehicles, and walked through wadis and terraced farmland and am very comfortable under NODs.
I also don't run my -14's brightness wide open, so having an eye adapted to the ambient light helps with both providing a wider FOV, better awareness of my immediate surroundings, and I'm also not having to peak under my NODs if I go white light.
Generally speaking- it's slightly more natural feeling to walk under binos and is definitely more intuitive driving under binos. However, the point of NODs is to see in the dark, and my -14 can pull light when my SRT NODs are struggling and need IR lum to keep up. I'll take a better performing tube vs lower any day, and I won't arbitrarily buy binos just to gain an extra tube. If I were to go binos, I would want the tubes to be on par with my -14, or it's a downgrade.
I really hate how multiple people that I know are not FOS, are giving me multiple answers that directly conflict with each other. Not a dig at anyone, just venting some frustration, because try as I might, I know I will have to actually buy and use the kit for a while to "really decide", and it bugs the hell out of me at this price point and my income level.
Its really not that big of a deal because your head is always moving. A better tube will be a better device.
For driving, depth perception becomes more important, but you are also limited to driving only as fast as you can see. So if we have low illumination, tubes that suck, will suck, even if bino.
I loved the 6’s I was issued, though.
My problem is that I got 30 minutes on a PVS, and 30 minutes on binos, and the binos were something like 1800FOM, and the PVS I don't know, but it definitely wasn't as clean as the binos, and the "lens" seemed "warped" where the image wasn't perfectly "true"? if that makes sense, so kindof a horrible "head to head" for me.
WS6, I agree that most everyone who has used dual tubes vs single recommends duals as the better option for all the reasons you’ve already heard. It’s very interesting that there are 3 guys in this thread (that I trust information from) are saying somewhat conflicting things from most others out there. I say somewhat because I understand their point about a single higher spec tube being better than “meh” dual tubes. And then there’s the ambient light/gain control/SA advantage to the PVS14. Keep in mind they’ve basically hinted at the fact that they would take duals over single if specs were a wash, so there’s that.
I was in the same place as you recently with the decision process and finally decided that this is the way I’m approaching it: start with a high spec (thin film or UF WP) 14 and use the extra money saved over duals to set up my rifle for night time engagements. Once funds allow and after extensive use and training with the 14, I can then decide if I really need duals...in which case I can decide to either keep the 14 as a backup or a niche application NVG such as traveling with it on a Crye Nightcap due to size/weight (likely option for me if funds allow) OR buy another 14 to bridge (But it will be a heavy system) OR sell the 14 and go with duals. You’ll be able to sell the 14 quicker than duals and in this market/political environment you may not even lose money down the road.
WS6, I agree that most everyone who has used dual tubes vs single recommends duals as the better option for all the reasons you’ve already heard. It’s very interesting that there are 3 guys in this thread (that I trust information from) are saying somewhat conflicting things from most others out there. I say somewhat because I understand their point about a single higher spec tube being better than “meh” dual tubes. And then there’s the ambient light/gain control/SA advantage to the PVS14. Keep in mind they’ve basically hinted at the fact that they would take duals over single if specs were a wash, so there’s that.
I was in the same place as you recently with the decision process and finally decided that this is the way I’m approaching it: start with a high spec (thin film or UF WP) 14 and use the extra money saved over duals to set up my rifle for night time engagements. Once funds allow and after extensive use and training with the 14, I can then decide if I really need duals...in which case I can decide to either keep the 14 as a backup or a niche application NVG such as traveling with it on a Crye Nightcap due to size/weight (likely option for me if funds allow) OR buy another 14 to bridge (But it will be a heavy system) OR sell the 14 and go with duals. You’ll be able to sell the 14 quicker than duals and in this market/political environment you may not even lose money down the road.
I must ask...how is the 14 working out?
Also, here is what I'm looking at (either way t he rifle gets outfitted, and I have taken helmet/mounting into account):
PVS14 35snr, 72lpi, with good EBI and low halo with L3 filmless white phos
RNVG's 25snr, 67lpi, very good EBI and halo with a thin-film Elbit tube white phos, tubes well matched and collamated.
Which one and why, is best?
I will use it for running and gunning, sneaking up on animals, hiking, etc. on un-even and sometimes wooded terrain (the Ozarks).
I really hate how multiple people that I know are not FOS, are giving me multiple answers that directly conflict with each other. Not a dig at anyone, just venting some frustration, because try as I might, I know I will have to actually buy and use the kit for a while to "really decide", and it bugs the hell out of me at this price point and my income level.
I get it man, it's a significant investment and you're trying to make a well informed decision before committing.
My problem is that I got 30 minutes on a PVS, and 30 minutes on binos, and the binos were something like 1800FOM, and the PVS I don't know, but it definitely wasn't as clean as the binos, and the "lens" seemed "warped" where the image wasn't perfectly "true"? if that makes sense, so kindof a horrible "head to head" for me.
Easy way to adjust a PVS-14 is to step outside and see something like a fenceline. Adjust the diopter to start at 0, and turn the brightness down until it just barely amplifies light. Adjust the ocular lens until it's in focus with the fenceline, then slowly adjust the diopter until the image "merges" with your unaided eye-kinda like adjusting an LPVO focus down at 1x. Then, look off to an object in the distance and adjust the ocular lens focus to "infinity".
A lot of guys run inappropriate diopter settings without really knowing it. This is a common cause of eye strain and headaches, as well as negates the benefit of having an unaided eye. With an overly adjusted diopter, the two images will never truly "blend" once your unaided eye adjusts to its environmental lighting because you have the tube competing with your natural visual acuity- imagine trying to look out with one eye wearing a corrective lens and having that single eye "too strong".
A lot of guys also run their -14s way too bright. In doing so, the image quality of the tube turns to shit (you induce a lot of static-"snow storm" when looking through NODs), and you lose most of the night adaptation due to the unaided eye being excessively constricted (optic nerves work together, we know this- pupils dilate to increase light reception in low light, and given they adjust simultaneously, your unaided eye will be constricted due to the tube providing a substantial amount of supplemental light to the other eye).
What I would run with NODs is irrelevant from the prepared civilian perspective, honestly. I work with a group of 23 dudes that all have NODs, lasers, and we train together weekly. On the other end of the spectrum, I'm also working in an environment where I use NODs strictly to assist with navigation and looking for hazards to assist the PIC as needed. I benefit from the pseudo-depth perception of binos in the helicopter because that is a navigational role.
Yes- for all intents and purposes, binos > mono. You have some unique idiosyncrasies to work around with binos, namely that you will need to wear them higher in your FOV so you can peak under them to go white light, as well as losing a lot of awareness of ambient lighting by drawing both eyes in to those 40-degree toilet paper tubes. I also hate that the binos I'm equipped with automatically adjust their gain, so I have no manual brightness control.
I firmly believe that, in your position, you will be best served with a quality -14, helmet, mount, and laser, buying a case of FMJ, and enrolling in a course taught by someone that has SOF experience in the GWOT. There are a ton of former Unit dudes teaching, and you will be hard pressed to find a better resource to learn night vision shooting than with someone who cut their teeth doing it at the Varsity level.
Once you gain experience under NODs, then you can weigh the pros-cons of binos yourself and make the decision to either go to binos or stay with the -14. Most guys buy NODs, play with them for a few hours, then sell them months later with minimal use. That's an expensive game to play.
PVS14 35snr, 72lpi, with good EBI and low halo with L3 filmless white phos
RNVG's 25snr, 67lpi, very good EBI and halo with a thin-film Elbit tube white phos, tubes well matched and collamated.
That 35 SNR on the -14 is ****ing crazy, and will yield a much clearer image in low light. It wouldn't even be close indoors- that -14 will smoke the RNVGs.
I get it man, it's a significant investment and you're trying to make a well informed decision before committing.
Easy way to adjust a PVS-14 is to step outside and see something like a fenceline. Adjust the diopter to start at 0, and turn the brightness down until it just barely amplifies light. Adjust the ocular lens until it's in focus with the fenceline, then slowly adjust the diopter until the image "merges" with your unaided eye-kinda like adjusting an LPVO focus down at 1x. Then, look off to an object in the distance and adjust the ocular lens focus to "infinity".
A lot of guys run inappropriate diopter settings without really knowing it. This is a common cause of eye strain and headaches, as well as negates the benefit of having an unaided eye. With an overly adjusted diopter, the two images will never truly "blend" once your unaided eye adjusts to its environmental lighting because you have the tube competing with your natural visual acuity- imagine trying to look out with one eye wearing a corrective lens and having that single eye "too strong".
A lot of guys also run their -14s way too bright. In doing so, the image quality of the tube turns to shit (you induce a lot of static-"snow storm" when looking through NODs), and you lose most of the night adaptation due to the unaided eye being excessively constricted (optic nerves work together, we know this- pupils dilate to increase light reception in low light, and given they adjust simultaneously, your unaided eye will be constricted due to the tube providing a substantial amount of supplemental light to the other eye).
What I would run with NODs is irrelevant from the prepared civilian perspective, honestly. I work with a group of 23 dudes that all have NODs, lasers, and we train together weekly. On the other end of the spectrum, I'm also working in an environment where I use NODs strictly to assist with navigation and looking for hazards to assist the PIC as needed. I benefit from the pseudo-depth perception of binos in the helicopter because that is a navigational role.
Yes- for all intents and purposes, binos > mono. You have some unique idiosyncrasies to work around with binos, namely that you will need to wear them higher in your FOV so you can peak under them to go white light, as well as losing a lot of awareness of ambient lighting by drawing both eyes in to those 40-degree toilet paper tubes. I also hate that the binos I'm equipped with automatically adjust their gain, so I have no manual brightness control.
I firmly believe that, in your position, you will be best served with a quality -14, helmet, mount, and laser, buying a case of FMJ, and enrolling in a course taught by someone that has SOF experience in the GWOT. There are a ton of former Unit dudes teaching, and you will be hard pressed to find a better resource to learn night vision shooting than with someone who cut their teeth doing it at the Varsity level.
Once you gain experience under NODs, then you can weigh the pros-cons of binos yourself and make the decision to either go to binos or stay with the -14. Most guys buy NODs, play with them for a few hours, then sell them months later with minimal use. That's an expensive game to play.
I'm leaning that way, honestly. I want binos, but I also fear that I won't use this as much as I fantasize about, and I'll turn a real hairy eyeball on that $6-9k sitting in the corner of the safe quite often...
I want to keep my NX8. I like it. Passive aiming isn't my bag.
I plan to buy a MAWL to use in conjunction with my Modlite OKW.
I want to buy a decent bump helmet and a Wilcox mount of some nature.
I fantasize about running the PVS14 over my non-dominant (left) eye, and immediately being able to transition to visible/NX8 with my right eye (shouldering the gun), should the need arise to do so vs using the MAWL/PVS14. However, I realize in the real world this may be clumsy, the PVS and NX8 may still fight for real-estate, and "maybe it just won't go".
Still, those are kindof my thoughts if I do a PVS14 setup.
My biggest fear is getting the PVS14 and wishing I had just sacked up and gotten binos and being frustrated.
That 35 SNR on the -14 is ****ing crazy, and will yield a much clearer image in low light. It wouldn't even be close indoors- that -14 will smoke the RNVGs.
This is figurative. If I order a PVS14, I get to spec my tube though. I plan on sickhouse SNR, with 64+ LP. TNVC hand-picks whatever the hell you want when you order L3 filmless. The other specs I gave were just average specs from the Elbit tubes as those don't have that option for hand select.
Indoors I thought white light ruled the day?
The other aspect of a 14 vs binos, is that white light looks the same as IR under NODS. If someone in my area pops off with IR, it is a very drastically different event than if they are using white light. With binos, I couldn't tell. I live very rural, in the middle of nowhere.
I must ask...how is the 14 working out?
Also, here is what I'm looking at (either way t he rifle gets outfitted, and I have taken helmet/mounting into account):
PVS14 35snr, 72lpi, with good EBI and low halo with L3 filmless white phos
RNVG's 25snr, 67lpi, very good EBI and halo with a thin-film Elbit tube white phos, tubes well matched and collamated.
Which one and why, is best?
I will use it for running and gunning, sneaking up on animals, hiking, etc. on un-even and sometimes wooded terrain (the Ozarks).
14. Due to SNR and unfilmed vs thin filmed. When it gets really dark, and you really need NV, you’ll be able to see shit with that 14, that you won’t be able to see with the RNVG’s. The RNVG’s will have a more “opaque” feel than the 14 with those specs.
This is figurative. If I order a PVS14, I get to spec my tube though. I plan on sickhouse SNR, with 64+ LP. TNVC hand-picks whatever the hell you want when you order L3 filmless. The other specs I gave were just average specs from the Elbit tubes as those don't have that option for hand select.
Indoors I thought white light ruled the day?
The other aspect of a 14 vs binos, is that white light looks the same as IR under NODS. If someone in my area pops off with IR, it is a very drastically different event than if they are using white light. With binos, I couldn't tell. I live very rural, in the middle of nowhere.
You’ll be waiting a LONG time for those from TNVC. TNVC is already around 20 weeks for their standard products not including hand select units Which usually take longer than stated LT’s. Personally I’d take a little lower spec that I can get in 4-6 weeks vs those specs at 20+ weeks. That might also mean thin film over unfilmed. I would be more concerned with S/N, EBI, and Halo as opposed to LP and FOM. LP above 64 is pretty much not going to make a difference in a head worn unit, clip on is a different story. Get a S/N over 30-32, EBI under 1 or around 0.5 would be better, and Halo under 1 and you’ll have a very nice unit even if it’s thin filmed.
Also, wish I could give you a report on the 14 but I’m still waiting on mine. Hope to have it in a couple weeks. Sorry if it sounded like I already had it. What I’m typing here is based on research and limited use of other guys NODs.
You’ll be waiting a LONG time for those from TNVC. TNVC is already around 20 weeks for their standard products not including hand select units Which usually take longer than stated LT’s. Personally I’d take a little lower spec that I can get in 4-6 weeks vs those specs at 20+ weeks. That might also mean thin film over unfilmed. I would be more concerned with S/N, EBI, and Halo as opposed to LP and FOM. LP above 64 is pretty much not going to make a difference in a head worn unit, clip on is a different story. Get a S/N over 30-32, EBI under 1 or around 0.5 would be better, and Halo under 1 and you’ll have a very nice unit even if it’s thin filmed.
Also, wish I could give you a report on the 14 but I’m still waiting on mine. Hope to have it in a couple weeks. Sorry if it sounded like I already had it. What I’m typing here is based on research and limited use of other guys NODs.
I keep hearing from people I should get binos. So torn, but honestly, I may just get the RNVG Elbit thin-film binos when they drop for the second round. I dunno.
I keep hearing from people I should get binos. So torn, but honestly, I may just get the RNVG Elbit thin-film binos when they drop for the second round. I dunno.
Lets say you’re trying to get your hands on a pair of DD rifles with T2’s. But, the budget isn’t working. If you can get two with PRO’s instead, fine. But two PSA’s with Truglo, not so much. Go with one DD instead. A top notch 14 beats a mediocre RNVG for most uses.
I hope that analogy makes sense.
Lets say you’re trying to get your hands on a pair of DD rifles with T2’s. But, the budget isn’t working. If you can get two with PRO’s instead, fine. But two PSA’s with Truglo, not so much. Go with one DD instead. A top notch 14 beats a mediocre RNVG for most uses.
I hope that analogy makes sense.
I hear you, and I also have heard the opposite. I don't know what to make of it to be honest, because all people involved have extensive use on NODS flying, shooting, navigating, you name it. :(
This is not as simple as Aimpoint vs. TruGlo to me :(
Lots of people telling me it is like running around with one eye covered, and that gets to me after a few minutes.
I'm leaning that way, honestly. I want binos, but I also fear that I won't use this as much as I fantasize about, and I'll turn a real hairy eyeball on that $6-9k sitting in the corner of the safe quite often...
Maybe I can add a bit of perspective here... I bought a well spec'd at the time ITT 6015/PVS14 with no gain 20+ years ago with the excuse of needing them for urban LE patrol duties. Of course it turns out patrol is too dynamic and there is too much ambient light anyways. White light rules the day and I have bought a couple fancy DTNVG worth of flashlights over the years.
The 6015 with a magnifier is somewhat useful doing surveillance in the very occasional dark area. However, as my warrrant team isn't tactical enough for NODS, again white light rules the day and my 6015 lives next to my binos in my gear bag.
Over the years my most memorable uses have been when finding actual darkness. Driving fire roads (slowly), shooting with RDS (clumsily), during large blackouts (excitedly), and watching the stars (happily). Just went to Jellystone and my daughter and I laid on the benches surrounding Old Faithful in the middle of the darkness and watched planets, stars, shooting stars, and satellites every night with NVG and binos. She also had no problem immediately using them to run around in complete darkness.
Of course I added a mount to my ballistic helmet and got a DBAL. I zeroed to my MK18 but true night shooting is few and far between. I don't keep my helmet handy at home and again, fancy white light rules the day for home CQB. It's how I have trained forever so that's what I default to.
Don't get me wrong, I love buying nice toys and have spent multiple DTNVG costs on just flashlights over the years. I do theoretically want DTNVG and may well get some someday, but it's just that in over 20 years of owning a single tube I have not been in a civilian or urban LE situation where I felt wanting. As always, it all about YOUR mission.
Although truthfully, with my current 6015/DBAL/ballistic helmet setup, I do feel minimally prepared for the Zombie Apocalypse [emoji6]
Dennis.
What is it that the "binos owners" rave about? Just feel like I'm getting two different lines, and both are the truth :(
What is it that the "binos owners" rave about? Just feel like I'm getting two different lines, and both are the truth :(
It's worth noting that the majority of people who buy their NODs treat them like a status symbol.
It's worth noting that the majority of people who buy their NODs treat them like a status symbol.
I understand, but even the military is replacing the PVS14 with binos, and that gives me a big pause.
It's worth noting that the majority of people who buy their NODs treat them like a status symbol.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200821/f6a18d0d1bd85e1065f33313ebd47036.jpg
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I understand wanting to be informed before a big purchase like this. I am/was too, like I mentioned. But I think you’re agonizing over the decision a little too much.
A lot of good work was put in by sneaky dudes under a single tube for a LONG time. Neither of us are professional users, so for us, it’s more of a want/need balance we have to strike. For me, the minimum viable product to get me in the game and answer all these questions is the PVS14. How much I actually train with them, how my brain performs with just one tube, funds availability, etc will dictate if I feel the need to advance up to duals.
Also, With current events, I’m sure I’m not the only one feeling the need to have this “prep” checked off the box...hence the huge rush right now for everyone and their brother to buy nods. Delivery timelines and “hand select” spec picking played a major role in the vendor I chose...which is not TNVC.
WS6, your PM box is full...trying to reply.
WS6, your PM box is full...trying to reply.
Problem solved, apologies!
I understand, but even the military is replacing the PVS14 with binos, and that gives me a big pause.
Not entirely true.
Not entirely true.
Can you expound? It just seems like lots of people would rather run an omni V tube bino than super tube pvs14 based on every thread but this one that I've ever read, and those threads had solid posters of known background as well. Just trying to better understand.
Five_Point_Five_Six
08-23-20, 10:24
If one were looking to acquire a decently spec'd PVS 14, and he owns land and can use them anytime he desires and isn't concerned with just flexing on the 5 digit earners, where is a good place to shop that won't take more time to receive them than a Form 4 tax stamp?
If one were looking to acquire a decently spec'd PVS 14, and he owns land and can use them anytime he desires and isn't concerned with just flexing on the 5 digit earners, where is a good place to shop that won't take more time to receive them than a Form 4 tax stamp?
Kosher Surplus has PVS14’s in stock with good specs.
Five_Point_Five_Six
08-23-20, 13:37
Kosher Surplus has PVS14’s in stock with good specs.
Thank you, I'd never heard of Kosher Surplus.
PracticalRifleman
08-23-20, 15:13
I don’t know about all that. I’d be pretty surprised if more than 300 guys in the country have good NODs (14 or better), a laser, and know how to use both well. And the vast majority of them probably roll in the same circles. There may be tons of hunters and the like with NVG capability, but we all know that doesn’t necessarily mean shit. Even with those guys factored in, I’d be surprised if 5% of the population has NODs.
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I’d be surprised if 5% of shooters have NODs. I bought my rig a decade ago and I didn’t have any others in my circle with one. Ten years later, I’m still the only one with a functioning rig...and by that I mean NODs, helmet/mount, PEQ and training on it. It’s “been on the list” of four of my guys for a long time but no progress.
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I decided to purchase a PVS14. After reviewing the fact that I will pay taxes on my stock profits, as well as the fact that a 14 "definitely gets me in the game", and I moved just fine with one last time I used one, I decided to save the coin on binos and go with a PVS14.
L3 filmless WP tube w/datasheet, dated July 2020
64,200 biolume gain
34.1 SNR
0.1 EBI
0.7 Halo
64 lp/mm (I will not magnify)
Spec sheet shows one blem .003-.006” in the outside of zone 3.
Here is a photo through the device. I think I saw the blem, dunno.
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/453733/NVD_jpg-1558526.JPG
in a Vyper body with Carson glass, 2 year tube warranty, and 5 year housing warranty, through the manufacturer (UNV). I confirmed with the stocking dealer that Carson glass was used throughout.
My next question:
I need a helmet, and I need a mount, and I need a tether, and I want to know if I should use a counterweight of some type or not, if so, what? I THINK I want a Norotos INVG mount with the dual dove-tail. Do I? I understand that if I stow the device, it will instantly shut it off? Will it ALSO turn back on, unlike the Wilcox G24, or no, when re-deployed? I would strongly prefer a Team Wendy helmet for their suspension system. How would I mount a Norotos on this?
I want a bump helmet, not ballistic. I want to integrate my Peltor Tac 6's on it, as I don't need comms, and they are cheap and when they die I get new ones. My nugget measures roughly 21.5" circ.
I also wanted to thank everyone here who humored this agonizing process along the way, who helped, and who contributed. I ask a lot of stuff.
Kosher Surplus has PVS14’s in stock with good specs.
That is who I went through. Yes, Benny suffered the gauntlet of 5 billion questions. Yes, I researched Kosher as well as UNV through multiple friends of mine. Everyone seems G2G. I bet Benny is tired of my minutia, but dude is easy to deal with, very responsive, and knows his product.
Five_Point_Five_Six
08-23-20, 18:10
I decided to purchase a PVS14. After reviewing the fact that I will pay taxes on my stock profits, as well as the fact that a 14 "definitely gets me in the game", and I moved just fine with one last time I used one, I decided to save the coin on binos and go with a PVS14.
L3 filmless WP tube w/datasheet, dated July 2020
64,200 biolume gain
34.1 SNR
0.1 EBI
0.7 Halo
64 lp/mm (I will not magnify)
Spec sheet shows one blem .003-.006” in the outside of zone 3.
Here is a photo through the device. I think I saw the blem, dunno.
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/453733/NVD_jpg-1558526.JPG
in a Vyper body with Carson glass, 2 year tube warranty, and 5 year housing warranty, through the manufacturer (UNV). I confirmed with the stocking dealer that Carson glass was used throughout.
My next question:
I need a helmet, and I need a mount, and I need a tether, and I want to know if I should use a counterweight of some type or not, if so, what? I THINK I want a Norotos INVG mount with the dual dove-tail. Do I? I understand that if I stow the device, it will instantly shut it off? Will it ALSO turn back on, unlike the Wilcox G24, or no, when re-deployed? I would strongly prefer a Team Wendy helmet for their suspension system. How would I mount a Norotos on this?
I want a bump helmet, not ballistic. I want to integrate my Peltor Tac 6's on it, as I don't need comms, and they are cheap and when they die I get new ones. My nugget measures roughly 21.5" circ.
I also wanted to thank everyone here who humored this agonizing process along the way, who helped, and who contributed. I ask a lot of stuff.
I saw the blem right away, then I scrolled the page a bit and realized it was a spot on my computer monitor. :laugh:
I decided to purchase a PVS14. After reviewing the fact that I will pay taxes on my stock profits, as well as the fact that a 14 "definitely gets me in the game", and I moved just fine with one last time I used one, I decided to save the coin on binos and go with a PVS14.
L3 filmless WP tube w/datasheet, dated July 2020
64,200 biolume gain
34.1 SNR
0.1 EBI
0.7 Halo
64 lp/mm (I will not magnify)
Spec sheet shows one blem .003-.006” in the outside of zone 3.
Here is a photo through the device. I think I saw the blem, dunno.
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/453733/NVD_jpg-1558526.JPG
in a Vyper body with Carson glass, 2 year tube warranty, and 5 year housing warranty, through the manufacturer (UNV). I confirmed with the stocking dealer that Carson glass was used throughout.
My next question:
I need a helmet, and I need a mount, and I need a tether, and I want to know if I should use a counterweight of some type or not, if so, what? I THINK I want a Norotos INVG mount with the dual dove-tail. Do I? I understand that if I stow the device, it will instantly shut it off? Will it ALSO turn back on, unlike the Wilcox G24, or no, when re-deployed? I would strongly prefer a Team Wendy helmet for their suspension system. How would I mount a Norotos on this?
I want a bump helmet, not ballistic. I want to integrate my Peltor Tac 6's on it, as I don't need comms, and they are cheap and when they die I get new ones. My nugget measures roughly 21.5" circ.
I also wanted to thank everyone here who humored this agonizing process along the way, who helped, and who contributed. I ask a lot of stuff.
Buy a team wendy bump. Wilcox g24 is bougie. Dual dovetail is 100% worth it. I can’t speak to the INVG but it looks cool.
Aftermarket lanyards are a meme generally. Rig up some 550 cord instead. I have one of the Trex bungee lanyards in my lid and has the added benefit of adding a little stabilization to my RNVGs but it was free.
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Buy a team wendy bump. Wilcox g24 is bougie. Dual dovetail is 100% worth it. I can’t speak to the INVG but it looks cool.
Aftermarket lanyards are a meme generally. Rig up some 550 cord instead. I have one of the Trex bungee lanyards in my lid and has the added benefit of adding a little stabilization to my RNVGs but it was free.
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Thanks! I know zip about lanyards other than its intended function. Will 550 fit through the pvs lanyard loop?
Thanks! I know zip about lanyards other than its intended function. Will 550 fit through the pvs lanyard loop?
It will work just fine, if you have any issue use a small zip-tie and connect it to the 550 cord.
I agree with GTF425, I like The PVS14 over Binos. I had access to Binos for years and choose to stick with my 14s. I like the versatility of having a only one eye covered.
Thanks! I know zip about lanyards other than its intended function. Will 550 fit through the pvs lanyard loop?
There's a lot of ways to tie down NODs. I've been to different training that all required different tiedowns for various equipment, but the simplest way is to route gutted 550 around the body of your -14, secure it to itself with a weight bearing knot, then make a separate loop with a weight bearing knot that you attach a small carabiner to. You can keep it secured within a pouch this way, then simply attach the carabiner to your helmet (either another loop of 550 on the shroud, a piece of nylon on a helmet cover, a helmet band, whatever).
https://i.imgur.com/6VWzdYV.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/zS3f1qN.jpg
It won't win cool points on Instagram, but the guys who knock tiedowns most likely never had to tell their Squad Leader that they lost their NODs. It's been 11 years and I'm still sore.
The helmet lanyards do nothing to secure your NODs in a pouch; where they will live the majority of the time.
I keep my PVS-14 secured to a carabiner within a small general purpose pouch and use a SAM splint as a protective insert.
As for helmet/etc;
1) The Norotos Dual Dovetail Adapter is fantastic.
2) Go with the G24 if you can afford it. They keep a lower profile when stowed than Norotos arms, and this is from a guy that uses an AKA2 and wishes it was a G24.
3) Team Wendy Exfil LTP; you'll love it.
4) If your NODs are stowed, just turn them off. Yes; the DDA will maintain the auto-off function. It will not turn back on- it simply kills contact when stowed and you have to manually turn it to off and then back on again. So if you're gonna stow a PVS-14...just turn it off.
most likely never had to tell their Squad Leader that they lost their NODs. It's been 11 years and I'm still sore
“Go ahead and elevate your stupid effing feet”
hahahaha
Tie your shit down, guys.
“Go ahead and elevate your stupid effing feet”
hahahaha
Tie your shit down, guys.
Bro-
It was a religious experience. And yep- my NODs were found, but you can bet I never lost shit again.
If you like reading test data, these are interesting
A Comparison of Monocular, Biocular, and Binocular Night Vision Goggles for Traversing Off-road Terrain on Foot
ARMY RESEARCH LABORATORY
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/4ac9/21ec6a7373f26c2e51fb61edeb43332fdc1b.pdf
Night Vision Goggle Research and Training Issues for Ground Forces: A Literature Review
United States Army Research Institute for the Behavioral and Social Sciences
https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a347071.pdf
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Well she arrived! Carson lenses, Vyper-C body, L3 UF WP 1701 tube. Thoughts/ideas/how is this?
photocathode 2856k: 2203
EBI: 0.1
Luminescence gain: 64,204
SNR: 34.1
Center Res: 64
Center Res (high light): 36
Halo: 0.7
Zone 1: Clean, Zone 2, Clean, Zone 3 (One) blem, 0.003-0.006
(X) Dark Spots </=0.003 are acceptable
https://scontent-dfw5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/118459991_10100310866654131_2181857463026048487_o.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=M-g-n81GGsUAX9gCX8P&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-2.xx&oh=e8359fd08ee18b85cf180491b6209150&oe=5F6DAD52
oddly, there was only 1 blem on the L3 sheet, but I've found a couple, lol! Overall I'm very pleased as the only one I really notice is the one at around 8:30, and I'm assured it's okay and won't enlarge or anything bad/isn't a sign of air at the tube or anything funky.
Tonight was a very dark night. Cloud cover, no stars, and I live in the middle of nowhere (taken sometime after midnight with full cloud cover).
This thing soaks up light! It was EXTREMELY dark with no moon, no stars, no artificial light sources.
https://scontent-dfw5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/118384237_10100310867462511_5969343336432177189_o.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=257C2J0yIpEAX-dhMLO&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-2.xx&oh=83869f2e336c66cd5a5b1cf820266193&oe=5F6E8822
This was taken a bit earlier, around 10pm, when the clouds still had a bit more glow to them:
https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/118579620_10100310754169551_4721752401171100373_o.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=akpIvWGCWcwAX9KzAQB&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=e9507563a034a8db197692740a8c3142&oe=5F6CEBD3
Those specs seems solid. That EBI is killer, Halo is pretty good too, and the SNR paired with it really makes that a solid tube.
I'd be excited for sure.
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Those specs seems solid. That EBI is killer, Halo is pretty good too, and the SNR paired with it really makes that a solid tube.
I'd be excited for sure.
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I actually ended up trading it off. Exchanged it for a L3 warrior systems 22um tube 2376fom minimum spec MNVD. Reason was the mnvd owner wanted a vyper body for use with kve shoes on a bridge with thermal, and I wanted a pvs14 body for use with a norotos dda. It worked. Being as it's what it is, I dont know the specs, but its solid.
I don't need NVGs. I don't need NVGs. Then this thread happens.
#$@#.
hotrodder636
09-29-20, 15:29
Lots of good info in this thread. Thanks for sharing everyone. If only it was in a NODs sub-forum....
Gotta say, being a johnny come lately with a WP PVS-14 and helmet setup...
If you are at all a shooter and not a gun accumulator with the potential need to shoot at night for pest control (hawgs, yotes, other undesirable things)...
DO IT.
DO IT NOW.
Gotta say, being a johnny come lately with a WP PVS-14 and helmet setup...
If you are at all a shooter and not a gun accumulator with the potential need to shoot at night for pest control (hawgs, yotes, other undesirable things)...
DO IT.
DO IT NOW.
It's very wrong that I don't have night vision. Gotta check coming, might have to bite the bullet.
PB
It's very wrong that I don't have night vision. Gotta check coming, might have to bite the bullet.
PB
Yeah, definitely do it. I took the plunge recently myself. Only regret is not doing it sooner.
Call Robert @ JRH...He'll get you hooked up with something nice.
With a standard PVS14 what is the cost/benefit of upgrading? Assuming there is no use for the 14 anymore, and you take a $1k hit by selling, is grabbing a set of 15s in green or WP worth it?
I like having one eye that retains natural night vision. After using NV for a few hours my monocular eye has an orange tint to it that is very dark. I don’t think I’d want both eyes looking like that.
Does depth perception really increase with binos that much? I’ve looked through them a bunch, but never walked around a mucky Texan cow pasture or Florida swamp or Iraqi desert with them as I have with 14s so I can’t base my purchase on experience which is something I always try to do.
It’s not really about the money, but it is. $8000+ is big money to do something that I can already do.
If you're selling a 14 for 1k, contact me
Edited to add: oops, read that wrong, disregard.
Don't Tread On Me
11-07-20, 17:38
What are most people running nowadays? Are the 14s passé with everyone transitioning over to dual tubes?
What are most people running nowadays? Are the 14s passé with everyone transitioning over to dual tubes?
I went from a 14 to bridged 14s to binos. Selling the old stuff as I upgraded.
But I still see a lot of people at night events with just 14s.
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What are most people running nowadays? Are the 14s passé with everyone transitioning over to dual tubes?
Don't let anyone tell you that you have to buy a $10K dual tube system to: drive, have depth perception, do CQB, etc. This is BS.
Everything you need to do you CAN do with a monocular. It just gets easier to do with a dual tube set.
This coming from someone that sells NV for a living and ran a 14 for years.
Dual tube units make it easier but you can do the same things with a 14 as long as you are willing to train a bit.
I 100% agree with Robert above and honestly believe in some cases that a single 14 offers more advantages. Binos or dual tubes are great for big open spaces and IMO extended wear times beyond that I dont really see that much more of a plus. I would spend the extra money between a 14 and set of dual tubes on a higher spec tube and better IR Laser/Illuminator like a MAWL. A single 14 give you the advantage of much faster low/white light transitions plus being able to read many natural lighting conditions with your unaided eye. If you dont run your gain stupidly high you will be amazed what your unaided eye can bring to the party.
If your shopping for a set of dual tubes and overlook articulation and gain control your giving up ground if you want to be dynamic and function better under all conditions. There are many times with my NVD BNVD SG ULs I roll my dominate eye tube up out of the way as at a door or breach point where there might be high probability of having to go to white light or in very rugged terrain where I want the added peripheral or natural vision.
If your looking for Night Vision dont hesitate to reach out to JRH Enterprises. Robert will keep it real and carries a great product line. I have not bought from them myself but they have a great reputation in the Night Vision community.
I 100% agree with Robert above and honestly believe in some cases that a single 14 offers more advantages. Binos or dual tubes are great for big open spaces and IMO extended wear times beyond that I dont really see that much more of a plus. I would spend the extra money between a 14 and set of dual tubes on a higher spec tube and better IR Laser/Illuminator like a MAWL. A single 14 give you the advantage of much faster low/white light transitions plus being able to read many natural lighting conditions with your unaided eye. If you dont run your gain stupidly high you will be amazed what your unaided eye can bring to the party.
If your shopping for a set of dual tubes and overlook articulation and gain control your giving up ground if you want to be dynamic and function better under all conditions. There are many times with my NVD BNVD SG ULs
This is pretty good info, and the BNVD SG UL is awesome.
This is pretty good info, and the BNVD SG UL is awesome.
My favorite platform as well, very popular.
My favorite platform as well, very popular.
Wish Id have known about the M4c discount when I bought mine. I think y’all might have given me a .mil discount, though. Don’t remember.
We need a NV sub......
I just got my first set of NVGs last Monday.
I jumped on the NGI/DTNVG set that TNVC introduced in July. The spec isn't out of the world but for my first set and being $3K less than their premier tube set I am happy. EBI is solid and there is only one blem that I can see an it's all the way on the outer perimeter. I really dig the ActInBlack housing. Shot about 100 rounds Sunday night and it was a lot of fun.
I considered duel PVS14s but it would have been the same price [if not a little more], heavier and less flexible.
I considered a single PVS14 and maybe buying a second down the road but I wanted the tubes to be at least similar in performance. I was worried about getting headaches if one tube is far different from another. Not sure if this is a real problem or me just overthinking it. Then there is the "buy once cry ones" mentality.
Honestly, I think a single PVS14 would work for my needs just as well, Im not LEO or MIL, just an Architect trying to have fun. I think that would apply to most people.
If I am ever in a situation where I need one eye without a tube in front of it, I can just rotate one of the tubes up and it automatically turns off.
ffhounddog
07-12-21, 05:53
I have a L3 and ITT pinnacle PVS-14 gen3. Will always have the L3 zero blems. But for what it is there should be zero blems.
my new lady and I have only ever worn NVGs in Iraq and Afghanistan mainly and they were PVS14s. No training issue there but she is trying to steal my peq15. I always tell her buy your own Marine stop stealing the Army's stuff.
I have a L3 and ITT pinnacle PVS-14 gen3. Will always have the L3 zero blems. But for what it is there should be zero blems.
my new lady and I have only ever worn NVGs in Iraq and Afghanistan mainly and they were PVS14s. No training issue there but she is trying to steal my peq15. I always tell her buy your own Marine stop stealing the Army's stuff.
Gear adrift is a gift!
I sold everything NVG last year with plans to upgrade and actually got most of what I spent back which was great. I am now mentally and physically preparing myself to deal with the load of shit I am going to be in when the wife finds out how much all the new gear is going to cost. She's gotten really good at searching online for what I buy in order to call BS on what I tell her it cost, LOL...
I sold everything NVG last year with plans to upgrade and actually got most of what I spent back which was great. I am now mentally and physically preparing myself to deal with the load of shit I am going to be in when the wife finds out how much all the new gear is going to cost. She's gotten really good at searching online for what I buy in order to call BS on what I tell her it cost, LOL...
The key is to have a tote in the garage, separate business that takes little time for moderate returns, and a separate bank account that only flows to business expenses, gun stuff as business expenses if you can find a way to legitimize this, and a self-directed IRA to surprise her with in 15 years.
It's been almost a year since I got into NV. I am still rocking a PVS14, and still happy. I do consider duals sometimes, but passive aiming is cake with my 14 (same as in daylight, really, just bring the gauge up and BOOM!), and it has worked just fine for hiking/staring at stars, etc. Maybe one of these days I will talk myself into RNVG or DTNVG, but I have yet to see how they would do better for me, and they certainly would be more of an investment.
Well, today was that day. I am now waiting on my duals to be delivered. I cannot help it, I have weak willpower and destined to always be poor.
Well, today was that day. I am now waiting on my duals to be delivered. I cannot help it, I have weak willpower and destined to always be poor.
I'm curious what you think going from a PVS-14 to dual tubes. What housing and tubes did you end up going with?
I'm curious what you think going from a PVS-14 to dual tubes. What housing and tubes did you end up going with?
RNVGs, L3 filmless, my spec.
Well in light (pun intended) of current events now seems like a good time to bring this up again. I had two older ITT 6015's (PVS-14 type without manual gain, now sold) and two PVS-14's made around 2005-6. What I concluded from research was that bino high FOM WP filmless is the new hotness, but along with that comes high demand, low supply so long wait times. Also the feature set of some of the most popular bino's turned out to be lacking in what I wanted/required:
1. Adjustable Diopter
2. Manual gain
3. Articulating
4. Individual pod shut off
Turns out finding bino's with those four features is surprisingly difficult, the L3/Harris PVS-31A and BNVD1531's do not have pod shut off, the DTNV and Katana have pod shut off but no manual gain. In fact the only two I am aware of are the Elbit PVS-31D/F5032 thin filmed and the BNVD's like those sold by JRH either Elbit thin filmed or L3 filmless. After going back and forth on the whole filmless/thin filmed thing I concluded after watching videos that with high FOM units the filmless might have a slight edge but IMO not enough to make a real difference. So since we all know the Marines never make wrong equipment choices:jester:, and I found them in stock, and I got a good price, and they come with a G24 a set of PVS-31D's should be arriving this week. ;)
Plug for Mod Armory had in stock what I wanted and did some price matching on what other companies had listed as pre order units that were up to 90 days out.
https://www.modarmory.com/product/an-pvs-31d-f5032-squad-night-vision-binocular/
Plug for Mod Armory had in stock what I wanted and did some price matching on what other companies had listed as pre order units that were up to 90 days out.
https://www.modarmory.com/product/an-pvs-31d-f5032-squad-night-vision-binocular/
I've purchased some parts and such from those guys...They treated me well, FWIW.
I'm still perfectly happy with the Photonis Echo WP PVS14 I purchased from JRH a while back. Does everything I need and I couldn't really tell any difference image and performance wise between it and the high-spec L3 M914A we had as a reference device in the test lab at my previous employer. So no plans to upgrade anytime soon.
I've purchased some parts and such from those guys...They treated me well, FWIW.
I'm still perfectly happy with the Photonis Echo WP PVS14 I purchased from JRH a while back. Does everything I need and I couldn't really tell any difference image and performance wise between it and the high-spec L3 M914A we had as a reference device in the test lab at my previous employer. So no plans to upgrade anytime soon.
Dude... same here... I love my JRH supplied Echo-14. Great NOD, at an equally great price.
Dude... same here... I love my JRH supplied Echo-14. Great NOD, at an equally great price.
Thank you both for your business, much appreciated.
I am on a spot to get into NV, bit I just do t really know what to use it for?
Range only has a couple night days. Do you guys use them to walk at night?
Golfing at night might be challenging.
I want to hunt feral pigs and may be of so.e limited use
Dude… I use mine for shooting, hikes, hunting, preparedness, and driving around in my golf cart at night… they’re fun and a great tool!
Thanks for the info, gonna keep researching and learning more.
Anytime man… but I gotta tell you… Robert from JRH Enterprises regularly posts here… he’s a WEALTH of knowledge and has a passion for customer service which is lacking in the industry. I called him on a Sunday… dude… a Sunday, and he answered the call and chatted with me about my pending purchase… I’m not sure what your needs/requirements are, but for me, he evaluated my past use with NVGs, and my current needs… and got me into a very nice PVS-14 Photonis echo tube. I’ve been nothing but impressed with its performance, at the current price point…. It’s hard to beat!
Anytime man… but I gotta tell you… Robert from JRH Enterprises regularly posts here… he’s a WEALTH of knowledge and has a passion for customer service which is lacking in the industry. I called him on a Sunday… dude… a Sunday, and he answered the call and chatted with me about my pending purchase… I’m not sure what your needs/requirements are, but for me, he evaluated my past use with NVGs, and my current needs… and got me into a very nice PVS-14 Photonis echo tube. I’ve been nothing but impressed with its performance, at the current price point…. It’s hard to beat!
Yea came across some replies of his. I hit up his website real quick. Still debating the setup. I really wanna kill some wild hogs. Night seems even nicer. Thermal scope really works well, but binos have a place as well, just trying to think of other uses to justify my purchase.
May just be logical progression gun, suppressor, binos.
Anytime man… but I gotta tell you… Robert from JRH Enterprises regularly posts here… he’s a WEALTH of knowledge and has a passion for customer service which is lacking in the industry. I called him on a Sunday… dude… a Sunday, and he answered the call and chatted with me about my pending purchase… I’m not sure what your needs/requirements are, but for me, he evaluated my past use with NVGs, and my current needs… and got me into a very nice PVS-14 Photonis echo tube. I’ve been nothing but impressed with its performance, at the current price point…. It’s hard to beat!
Thank you sir! Appreciate your business and your comments.
Looking at thermals and like trijicon but lacks range finding. Seems like N Vision is making good stuff but I have never heard of them, specifically the XRF.
Anyone with some Intel on N Vision? And how important is a range finder, I seem to prefer have it integrated.
Looking at thermals and like trijicon but lacks range finding. Seems like N Vision is making good stuff but I have never heard of them, specifically the XRF.
Anyone with some Intel on N Vision? And how important is a range finder, I seem to prefer have it integrated.
We carry both. Never had a problem with N Vision equipment. Longer warranty and MUCH easier to deal with than Trijicon also.
Plan ahead on purchases of any of their units, very long lead time. However we do NOT charge until the order is ready to ship. We are about caught up on Nox 18 and 35 orders.
XRF units are shipping a lot quicker than Nox units.
If you don't need the range finger, the Halo LR is a great choice for a little less bucks also.
If we can help you with one of these units let me know. Thanks
Robert@jrhenterprises.com
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