View Full Version : MPX vs MP5
Now that the MPX has been out for several years,it was touted to be the replacement to
the MP5 WITHOUT QUESTION. Do you think that the MPX lived up to its expectations or
does the MP5 still reign superior. Discuss
Pappabear has both. The MPX was a little finicky in the beginning with some loads, but has since settled in.
I would take the MPX all day long due to ergo and bolt lock back. I simply can't get used to the lack of bolt catch on the German gun. Too many years running the M4.
The MPX "fits" like a glove.
Regarding the MP5:
The MP5 makes a very nice suppressor host. The back end of the receiver is pretty well sealed, so there's no path for gas to get from the chamber, through the receiver, and to your face. It's very soft shooting. Much softer than blowback 9mm guns and 5.56. It's also pretty cool to hold a real one in your hands if you grew up in the 80's/90's, since it was featured in a lot of popular media from that era.
The MP5 has some flaws. There's no bolt catch. The safety can be difficult to manipulate. You have to practice a lot just to make mag changes as fast an an AK (i.e. they're slow). The extractor spring is vulnerable to damage if a malfunction results in a round bending the extractor out away from the bolt with any force, resulting in sporadic failures to extract which a new user may not know is linked to a borked extractor spring. Just removing the extractor and extractor spring can bend and weaken the extractor spring leading to the same FTE problem. Finally, failures to eject, as from weak ammunition, can result in a malfunction where spent cases become lodged sideways in the trunnion, requiring minutes of prying with a tool to extract.
MAD makes an upgraded MP5 bolt head that has a completely different extractor/extractor spring design that eliminates the extractor spring damage issue and may generally improve extraction, but it's $300 when you can find one.
I've found that the "Navy Style" SEF trigger housing with the non finger groove grip offers better reach for your thumb to move the safety than either the true "Navy" housing with the different ambi thumb selectors or the traditional SEF housing with the finger grooves on the grip.
Regarding the MPX:
For controls, modularity like changing barrel lengths, and long-term maintenance, the MPX definitely has the MP5 beat. Sig's engineers make good designs.
Sig USA however has a long-time bad reputation when it comes to quality control. Something Cohen brought to the company was cutting corners in production to save on costs. When you get a good example of a Sig gun, you're golden. If you don't, you can have a lot of grief fighting Sig to try and get them to make it right via a warranty claim.
Good reply.
And as you mentioned on suppressors... We ran the TiRant (I think) on both guns, and both were excellent.
I have a gen 2 mpx, mp5k, mp5n, and mp5sd.
My sig has been very good overall although people have had a bunch of QC issues with sig. Stock trigger was crap but you now have aftermarket, same with the charging handle.
When it comes to suppressing the mpx is more picky with ammo if you don't want to get a bunch of gas in the face, mine has run everything though. The mpx also has more modern controls which is good and is a very soft shooting gun compared to most of the blowback guns on the market. You have a locking bolt as well which should help prevent out of battery firing that some other guns can have issues with.
The mp5 still holds up very well today despite some of the outdated controls. I find myself shooting the mp5s more although I have an autosear for them so I don't know if I'm the one to give a fair comparison though.
Oh yeah, that's another thing about Sigs: Sig somehow managed to take a stock AR15 trigger, already not the best, and make it worse. The worst trigger I've ever dealt with came on my 5.56 MCX pistol. I have no idea what combination of lower receiver and FCG tolerance stacking led to it but sometimes the trigger would break with about 5-6 lbs pressure, sometimes it would click and hit what felt like a second stage and then require 10+ lbs pull. I've never had a trigger cause me issues with accurate shooting- until that one. The 12 lb ARX100 trigger was worlds better. At least it was consistent and broke cleanly without stacking.
My MKE MP5 has a pretty nice stock trigger.
Assuming 9mm doesn't get blown up in price, if I ever own full auto it'll be an HK trigger pack just so I can run an MP5 in auto. The MP5 is really sweet on auto.
After the break in period for the MPX, both guns have run like a top. And I have never cleaned either one, never. Its nuts how I have never cleaned either and they run.
Ergos go to MPX hands down, cool factor goes to MP5. I dont use either for serious HM use. That goes to the Colt 10.3.
PB
I've recently been getting to shoot a SOT friend's F/A MP5 and MPX....the MP5 is significantly more smooth, and a bit more accurate. The MPX has a super fast cyclic rate, but stays on target great. The controls really make it hard to resist though. Having AR FOW controls on it is just such a huge advantage.
Both are great, and blast to shoot.
Oh yeah, that's another thing about Sigs: Sig somehow managed to take a stock AR15 trigger, already not the best, and make it worse. The worst trigger I've ever dealt with came on my 5.56 MCX pistol. I have no idea what combination of lower receiver and FCG tolerance stacking led to it but sometimes the trigger would break with about 5-6 lbs pressure, sometimes it would click and hit what felt like a second stage and then require 10+ lbs pull. I've never had a trigger cause me issues with accurate shooting- until that one. The 12 lb ARX100 trigger was worlds better. At least it was consistent and broke cleanly without stacking.
My MKE MP5 has a pretty nice stock trigger.
Assuming 9mm doesn't get blown up in price, if I ever own full auto it'll be an HK trigger pack just so I can run an MP5 in auto. The MP5 is really sweet on auto.
I agree with this. My MPX trigger got swopped for G SSA and the new charging handle.
My buddy that has Real HK Mp5, and he said our Zenith triggers are much nicer.
PB
I agree with this. My MPX trigger got swopped for G SSA and the new charging handle.
My buddy that has Real HK Mp5, and he said our Zenith triggers are much nicer.
PB
Does your buddy have a real HK Mp5 or a HK 94 conversion, because depending upon the sear trip lever used in the conversion, the trigger could be crap.
My factory HK MP5 has a trigger that is "to me" indistinguishable from my MKE 94P or my HK 94.
Regarding the MPX, after shooting several examples I decided not to buy. I actually found magazine changes to be slower and I didn't care for the feel and balance of the MPX. I assume most of that is 30 years of shooting HK platforms and just being accustomed to that.
I only shot one suppressed example of the MPX and couldn't really say one is better than the other. I suspect if you were raised on ARs you will enjoy the layout of the MPX more and if you think stock AR triggers are crap, then you really won't enjoy the HK trigger.
I have high hopes for the new LWRC offering, hopefully it's got the secret sauce from the MP5.
It might be the gun the UMP should have been.
The mpx has great potential, but it’s Sig so skip the recall and go with B&T.
I have high hopes for the new LWRC offering, hopefully it's got the secret sauce from the MP5.
It might be the gun the UMP should have been.
You gotta be shittin me! LWRC is going to try to Eff this platform up too???
The mpx has great potential, but it’s Sig so skip the recall and go with B&T.
Honestly, the B&T is the only PCC that I have any actual interest in that has come out recently. Everything I thought I was gonna like such as the Scorpion Evo just didn't really do it for me. Nothing wrong with them really, but I knew I'd never actually shoot it. I think that last 9mm PCC platform I bought was the B&T TP9.
I shoot my old school Uzi just because I have a real one and it's like breaking out the M1 garand. But mostly I shoot one of my MP5 derivatives and my TP9 from time to time. Given that the APC Pro takes the same magazines I could see actually shooting that one when I finally grab one.
Can't remember the last time I shot my Colt 6450, it's been awhile. One day when I finally get a Gustav M45 (Swedish K) I'll probably put a lot of trigger time on that one just because I've wanted one forever.
patriot_man
07-09-19, 01:32
I'd take the MP5, it is better built and sturdier. I feel like a bolt catch on the MP5 would close the gap in terms of reload speed as many bring up that point when comparing the MP5 and MPX.
The MPX is a 6061 extrusion and I hate extruded 6061 receivers lol.
Does your buddy have a real HK Mp5 or a HK 94 conversion, because depending upon the sear trip lever used in the conversion, the trigger could be crap.
My factory HK MP5 has a trigger that is "to me" indistinguishable from my MKE 94P or my HK 94.
Regarding the MPX, after shooting several examples I decided not to buy. I actually found magazine changes to be slower and I didn't care for the feel and balance of the MPX. I assume most of that is 30 years of shooting HK platforms and just being accustomed to that.
I only shot one suppressed example of the MPX and couldn't really say one is better than the other. I suspect if you were raised on ARs you will enjoy the layout of the MPX more and if you think stock AR triggers are crap, then you really won't enjoy the HK trigger.
My buddy has real HK guns. He is one of those guys that buys a $400 stock to make it more HK WARTIME legit. Stuff I know nothing of. The Zenith trigger, I found acceptable because it’s a RDS - center mass type gun.
I did just order an ambi safety for my Zenith, wish it came with.
PB
I'd take the MP5, it is better built and sturdier. I feel like a bolt catch on the MP5 would close the gap in terms of reload speed as many bring up that point when comparing the MP5 and MPX.
I could agree with this. I do like the HK, but that lack of bolt catch is just hard for me to get used to. This is America Damn it! :cool:
patriot_man
07-09-19, 11:16
I could agree with this. I do like the HK, but that lack of bolt catch is just hard for me to get used to. This is America Damn it! :cool:
Just need to step up to 10mm. The MP5/10 has one :p
Just need to step up to 10mm. The MP5/10 has one :p
That would be a little more expensive to feed.
MP5 is the better gun. They've been around for many decades and their reliability is proven. While the MPX has more "modern" features(in reality its just more like a AR15,boring and not innovative), I keep seeing reports of broken trigger groups. Heard they are not the best suppressor hosts either.
https://i.imgur.com/GZYVYgah.jpg
MP5 is the better gun. They've been around for many decades and their reliability is proven. While the MPX has more "modern" features(in reality its just more like a AR15,boring and not innovative), I keep seeing reports of broken trigger groups. Heard they are not the best suppressor hosts either.
The gun Pappabear runs has been a fine suppressed gun. They are hard on triggers. Geissele sent Pappabear a version to run and keep round counts on. It's been good, but we run sub guns so sporadically that it's hard to track round counts, etc.
The gun Pappabear runs has been a fine suppressed gun. They are hard on triggers. Geissele sent Pappabear a version to run and keep round counts on. It's been good, but we run sub guns so sporadically that it's hard to track round counts, etc.
The complaints Ive heard is that its loud suppressed for a pistol caliber gun
The jury simply isn't out on the MPX yet, and Sig keeps revising the design despite its short life from my understanding. While improvements are always welcomed I know there is some parts commonality issues between the generations of the MPX, which is pretty annoying IMHO.
Maybe one day a subgun will outperform the MP5 series, but I dont think its going to be the MPX
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXHTU1WDF08
The complaints Ive heard is that its loud suppressed for a pistol caliber gun
The jury simply isn't out on the MPX yet, and Sig keeps revising the design despite its short life from my understanding. While improvements are always welcomed I know there is some parts commonality issues between the generations of the MPX, which is pretty annoying IMHO.
Maybe one day a subgun will outperform the MP5 series, but I dont think its going to be the MPX
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXHTU1WDF08
It's a shame HK got so committed to the UMP design, a MP5/45 would have been the only dramatic improvement in the MP5 series and would have had broader appeal than the MP5/10 and MP5/40. Failing that, they should have retained the roller lock style bolt in the UMP because it's a clunky blowback and the polymer design wasn't a dramatic weight change. I also think the MP5 has a far superior suppressor mount than the UMP.
Really the only thing the UMP brought as a dramatic improvement was mounting optics and HK could have easily borrowed the SIG solution from the 550 series.
The complaints Ive heard is that its loud suppressed for a pistol caliber gun
We didn't notice a difference with subs, but that was out in the open in the desert... which can be way different than in structures, etc.
Maybe one day a subgun will outperform the MP5 series, but I dont think its going to be the MPX
I'm not sure what the performance needs/requirements are. But to ME.... sub guns are just for funzies. No way in hell is it a real world fighting option. Durability is always a plus to me. So if the MPX fell apart down the road, that would suck. But for simple steel banging... the sample I shot is pretty good.
Why even consider the MPX when the B&T APC9 Pro is available. The MP5 is the gold standard, the one to beat. IMO the APC9 Pro beats it. And I say that as a lover of the MP5. Where the MP5 truly has the most merit as a civilian is in its ability to be a sear host and live up to its full potential as a SMG. The MPX suffers from the fact that SigSauer USA makes it. Had it been made by HK, SwissArms, KAC, LMT, B&T, or really any other reputable manufacturer that values QC/QA, it may have been a great implementation of an interesting design. Instead it’s been beta tested by its early adopters. Hard pass.
For me, the interest in PCCs is cheap hearing-safe shooting. On an outdoor range with no overhead cover, I can shoot my suppressed MKE MP5 for hours without earpro with some coated lead reloads. That's the problem I have with otherwise nice PCCs using blowback operation like the B&Ts: loud noise from the ejection port when shooting suppressed. IIRC, the suppressed blowback guns I see sound tested all test over 140 dB at the ear. If B&T designs something with a locked breach or delayed blowback and faster controls, I'll be interested.
If B&T designs something with a locked breach or delayed blowback and faster controls, I'll be interested.
Yep. Blow back is the reason I never did a 9mm AR. The few I shot had awful recoil for such a weak round. They made Zero sense.
For me, the interest in PCCs is cheap hearing-safe shooting. On an outdoor range with no overhead cover, I can shoot my suppressed MKE MP5 for hours without earpro with some coated lead reloads. That's the problem I have with otherwise nice PCCs using blowback operation like the B&Ts: loud noise from the ejection port when shooting suppressed. IIRC, the suppressed blowback guns I see sound tested all test over 140 dB at the ear. If B&T designs something with a locked breach or delayed blowback and faster controls, I'll be interested.
I own a couple fullauto MP5s and have shot the fullauto APC9 side by side with my MP5K-N suppressed in an indoor range without ear pro using 158gr Fiocchi subs (my preferred subsonic loaf across all suppressed 9mm firearms). We did not meter, however subjectively the APC was no louder than my MP5K-N. The ejection port noise was not uncomfortable either.
Re: controls, the APC controls are very ergonomic, even more so on the Pro, and far more so than the MP5. I’m not sure how you could make the APC9 Pro controls any faster. This is not a knock on the MP5, as they are truly my favorite Subguns in my collection.
Yep. Blow back is the reason I never did a 9mm AR. The few I shot had awful recoil for such a weak round. They made Zero sense.
The hydraulic buffer in the APC makes for a smooth shooting subgun/pcc.
Why even consider the MPX when the B&T APC9 Pro is available. The MP5 is the gold standard, the one to beat. IMO the APC9 Pro beats it. And I say that as a lover of the MP5. Where the MP5 truly has the most merit as a civilian is in its ability to be a sear host and live up to its full potential as a SMG. The MPX suffers from the fact that SigSauer USA makes it. Had it been made by HK, SwissArms, KAC, LMT, B&T, or really any other reputable manufacturer that values QC/QA, it may have been a great implementation of an interesting design. Instead it’s been beta tested by its early adopters. Hard pass.
If we are talking looks and coolness alone,i think the mpx and mp5 look awesome. To me,and dont lynch me, the B&T is plain looking. Like the Striborg(lol) to me
If we are talking looks and coolness alone,i think the mpx and mp5 look awesome. To me,and dont lynch me, the B&T is plain looking. Like the Striborg(lol) to me
The MP5 is so beautiful. The MPX, yuck. The APC9 is more spartan looking. But wow, the feature set and ergos on the Pro are glorious. The Pro updates really make the APC9 shine.
RetroRevolver77
07-11-19, 09:22
Delete.
Steve Shannon
07-11-19, 17:23
Why even consider the MPX when the B&T APC9 Pro is available. The MP5 is the gold standard, the one to beat. IMO the APC9 Pro beats it. And I say that as a lover of the MP5. Where the MP5 truly has the most merit as a civilian is in its ability to be a sear host and live up to its full potential as a SMG. The MPX suffers from the fact that SigSauer USA makes it. Had it been made by HK, SwissArms, KAC, LMT, B&T, or really any other reputable manufacturer that values QC/QA, it may have been a great implementation of an interesting design. Instead it’s been beta tested by its early adopters. Hard pass.
Being tested by early adopters is the very definition of beta testing. The fact that SIG is willing to do continual product improvement changes rather than hold them and release major upgrades more incrementally can be seen positively or negatively. On one hand it gives the user base a feeling of instability. On the other hand if incorporating one small improvement rather than waiting for the next release saves one life, isn’t that more responsive as a company?
Do citizen users benefit more from many small improvements or fewer large revisions that bundle all the improvements? Bar owners make fortunes on that philosophical discussion.
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I own a couple fullauto MP5s and have shot the fullauto APC9 side by side with my MP5K-N suppressed in an indoor range without ear pro using 158gr Fiocchi subs (my preferred subsonic loaf across all suppressed 9mm firearms). We did not meter, however subjectively the APC was no louder than my MP5K-N. The ejection port noise was not uncomfortable either.
Cool. I'd still like to see metered results, but that's promising. If it's below 140dB at the shooter's ear using straight blowback and with comparable recoil impulse to an MP5, that's just plain better. Less parts to wear and a better breach/receiver area for easier malfunction clearance.
Re: controls, the APC controls are very ergonomic, even more so on the Pro, and far more so than the MP5. I’m not sure how you could make the APC9 Pro controls any faster. This is not a knock on the MP5, as they are truly my favorite Subguns in my collection.
Whoops. That wasn't as clear as it could have been. I was wishing for something from B&T using B&T's controls, but with delayed blowback or a fully locked breach to make it quieter at the shooter's ear when suppressed. B&T's APC and GHM subguns have great controls.
Being tested by early adopters is the very definition of beta testing. The fact that SIG is willing to do continual product improvement changes rather than hold them and release major upgrades more incrementally can be seen positively or negatively. On one hand it gives the user base a feeling of instability. On the other hand if incorporating one small improvement rather than waiting for the next release saves one life, isn’t that more responsive as a company?
Do citizen users benefit more from many small improvements or fewer large revisions that bundle all the improvements? Bar owners make fortunes on that philosophical discussion.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Beta tester’s Stockholm Syndrome? :)
Cool. I'd still like to see metered results, but that's promising. If it's below 140dB at the shooter's ear using straight blowback and with comparable recoil impulse to an MP5, that's just plain better. Less parts to wear and a better breach/receiver area for easier malfunction clearance.
Whoops. That wasn't as clear as it could have been. I was wishing for something from B&T using B&T's controls, but with delayed blowback or a fully locked breach to make it quieter at the shooter's ear when suppressed. B&T's APC and GHM subguns have great controls.
I would love to see meter results but that’s going to take someone with proper sound meters who knows how to test. Not likely going to happen. I agree with you that a modernized RDBB would be neat.
Steve Shannon
07-11-19, 21:17
Beta tester’s Stockholm Syndrome? :)
Another person who would rather go on the offensive rather than have a conversation?
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Another person who would rather go on the offensive rather than have a conversation?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Not at all. That was a light hearted comment, hence the smiley face.
I was wishing for something from B&T using B&T's controls, but with delayed blowback or a fully locked breach to make it quieter at the shooter's ear when suppressed.
The new LWRC gun is delayed blowback, and is supposed to be offered in 9mm (45 was just released). Also, the Stribog is supposed to have a delayed blowback version that will be released at some point. Of course, the CMMG Guard is out now (radial delayed blowback), but it seems to like being tuned for the ammunition it's being used with.
The new LWRC gun is delayed blowback, and is supposed to be offered in 9mm (45 was just released). Also, the Stribog is supposed to have a delayed blowback version that will be released at some point. Of course, the CMMG Guard is out now (radial delayed blowback), but it seems to like being tuned for the ammunition it's being used with.
I think the new LWRC gun looks really, really cool, but I don't think I like the tilting barrel design choice. I want to hear them explain what makes that better than building a stock around a CZ P-10/PPQ/other.
I think the new LWRC gun looks really, really cool, but I don't think I like the tilting barrel design choice. I want to hear them explain what makes that better than building a stock around a CZ P-10/PPQ/other.
Those f*cking liars are only good at ONE THING: Explaining why the garbage they build is better than other guns that actually work.
I can't believe those bottom feeding imbeciles would even try to get into a sub gun design.
Steve Shannon
08-27-19, 13:52
Not at all. That was a light hearted comment, hence the smiley face.
I apologize. When I read it today the lightheartedness came through clearly.
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I have a personal zenith Z5-P, an MPX carbine and an MPX-K. My agency has a few MP5’s still in the armory, and recently approved and is in the process of getting the select fire MPX platform for subgun issue. In the previous agency I worked for, we had MP5K-PDW’s for special assignments. I currently am issued a select fire colt M4, that will be retained when the MPX’s finally arrive.
So, I have experience with both platforms.
For the range, the MP5k is hands down favorite toy by far. The nostalgia is awesome and its an accurate soft shooting gun.
With that said, without the bolt hold open and ability to quickly reload, its no longer a realistic choice for a duty weapon when there are far better choices available.
The MPX has some flaws to be sure, and SIG may or may not fix them at the factory level, but for a duty issued weapon in select fire, its awesome. The AR configured controls make it easy to operate for anyone who has even a minor level of familiarization with an M4 or the like. Mag changes and ambi controls make it far faster than an MP5 platform, and the modularity of the MPX makes barrel, forend and stock changes a 5 minute operation.
MP5 for recoil impulse, suppression, parts availability and reliability. APC/APC Pro might be a contender, although I have read facebook posts about issues past 1000 to 1500 rounds, but alas they should be considered as unreliable sources.
RetroRevolver77
11-01-19, 07:19
Delete.
Read up on the MP5 with some getting to ridiculously high round counts.
Not sure, I'm following you here, I was alluding to the APC/APC Pro having issues, that said, I was aware of Henderson Defense(Battlefield Vegas), the NASA gun and others, my personal clone has in excessive of 10K on it.
Check out the MAD bolt if you pick up an MP5. It's a nice upgrade for the Turkish guns in particular, as you get the better extractor design and its cut for the newest 'wavy wire' roller retainer. The factory MKE guns use the old first pattern bolt head and plate roller retainer.
RetroRevolver77
11-01-19, 10:36
Delete.
Are the reviews old or new? There was a bad batch of bolts a year ago or so, but that's been resolved as far as I know.
I just got mine last month and no issues so far.
I was debating between the two several years ago. I bought a Zenith and haven't looked back since.
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