View Full Version : AK vs. AR on the Military channel
Did anyone see that AK vs. AR show on the Military Channel yesterday.
They went over all the old positives and negative for each platform in the context of the Viet Nam war. But the REALLY COOL part was the high speed camera footage of each gun firing in full auto mode.
The AR was pleasantly boring, but the AK was something else. The Barrel whip was crazy! You could see the barrel whipping like a noodle with each round that fired.
I'd love to get a copy of that footage.
RogerinTPA
11-12-08, 08:24
I see it every time it airs. It never gets old.
Jay Cunningham
11-12-08, 08:27
Yet I saw guys do a walkback drill back to 180 yards, past the point where most fell out with AR's.
The AK must be inherently inaccurate!!11
Nathan_Bell
11-12-08, 08:45
Yet I saw guys do a walkback drill back to 180 yards, past the point where most fell out with AR's.
The AK must be inherently inaccurate!!11
To steal the line Steve uses fairly often. Singer not the song. :D
Or do you disagree Mr. little G-lock shooting back up drill winner?
I believe that footage is on youtube.
Is it with the two gents at the indoor range firing at roughly 200 yards?
I believe that footage is on youtube.
Is it with the two gents at the indoor range firing at roughly 200 yards?
That's the episode. The pros and cons of each platform are well beaten to death.
I just thought the old slow motion video of the AK firing was cool. It was the first time I had seen it.
That's the episode. The pros and cons of each platform are well beaten to death.
I just thought the old slow motion video of the AK firing was cool. It was the first time I had seen it.
I have this episode on DVD, I ordered soon after it's first airing. I also like the F86 vs Mig 15 part. The slow mo on the AK is amazing, makes me wonder about long term durability (on the stamped AK's at least). I know this has been proven since about 1953 but all that shake rattle and roll un-nerves me. It is a wonder the cleaning rod even stays on the gun. Add another reason for the AK's inaccuracy along with the loose tolerances.
great episode :)
my dad was a F-86 pilot in the Korean war so kinda cool for me to watch as there is a limited amount of stuff on the F-86 stuff
I had a reel of his gun camera stuff also :) and a ton of slides
he has some great stories of being over in Korea and what they used to get away with
Powder_Burn
11-12-08, 11:56
Not from the television show but these videos show what you are describing:
AK-47: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlJTleh2yes&NR=1
AR-15/M-16: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpF3SIlbWt8&feature=related
Interesting stuff....
Not from the television show but these videos show what you are describing:
AK-47: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlJTleh2yes&NR=1
Exactly! That is cool video!
There was another interesting bit in the show that most people miss. They have archival footage of a VC or NVA praying and spraying with his AK. At some point, the recoil spring guide and top cover pop loose. The parts remain on the rifle, but they are noticably askew. The insurgent pauses to figure out why his rifle isn't working, and then pushes everything back into their proper position. The narrator doesn't comment on it.
ThirdWatcher
11-12-08, 17:19
My guess is it was reassembled improperly.:eek: The AK seems to be a very forgiving weapon.
Failure2Stop
11-12-08, 18:04
Carefully watch the videos and you will see that the barrel "whip" is post-shot. What the barrel does after the bullet leaves the barrel is irrelevant.
I have shot AKs that are 3 MOA guns, and I have shot M16s and M14s that are 5+ MOA guns.
Don't be distracted by appearances and pre-conceptions at moot time-frames.
The Military Channel video CLEARLY shows the whip as the bullet travels down the AK barrel. I specifically looked for this. That video was filmed indoors with a white background and the bullet was easy to see leaving the barrel. The rifle on the military channel video was of a fully automatic rifle so the barrel was basically in a constant state of Whippnicity!
This IS NOT a shit on the AK rifle thread at all. I just found the footage facinating. I find it amazing that the barrel does this.
Here's the program footage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6BpI3xD6h0
I'm with Demi on this one. I'll be damned. That was cool. I'd love to see the whole episode. That's the first time I've seen either gun on high speed slo-mo. I'd like to see an M2 firing, just for shits and giggles.
great episode :)
my dad was a F-86 pilot in the Korean war so kinda cool for me to watch as there is a limited amount of stuff on the F-86 stuff
I had a reel of his gun camera stuff also :) and a ton of slides
he has some great stories of being over in Korea and what they used to get away with
The F86 is one of my all time favorites (10-1 kill ratio over the Mig 15:D). You should order Dogfights seasons 1 & 2 from the History Channel, they have several episodes covering the F86 in Korea.
Interesting, will have to check to see if we have the military channel tonight. I don't think we do. :(
Failure2Stop
11-13-08, 13:43
The Military Channel video CLEARLY shows the whip as the bullet travels down the AK barrel. I specifically looked for this. That video was filmed indoors with a white background and the bullet was easy to see leaving the barrel. The rifle on the military channel video was of a fully automatic rifle so the barrel was basically in a constant state of Whippnicity!
I stand corrected. ;)
Interesting, will have to check to see if we have the military channel tonight. I don't think we do. :(
If you have it and don't know it, you should be BANNED!
There's so much cool stuff on there.... including LAV and his lasers! :p
great episode :)
my dad was a F-86 pilot in the Korean war so kinda cool for me to watch as there is a limited amount of stuff on the F-86 stuff
I had a reel of his gun camera stuff also :) and a ton of slides
he has some great stories of being over in Korea and what they used to get away with
A very big hello and thank you to your day just a few days past Veteran's Day.
Dogfights happens to be my favorite show on the History Chanel.
Those Korean War era vets that they've had on the show are great. No political correctness, no apologies...just good old fashioned ass kicking.
Alaskapopo
11-15-08, 23:56
Carefully watch the videos and you will see that the barrel "whip" is post-shot. What the barrel does after the bullet leaves the barrel is irrelevant.
I have shot AKs that are 3 MOA guns, and I have shot M16s and M14s that are 5+ MOA guns.
Don't be distracted by appearances and pre-conceptions at moot time-frames.
5 MOA AR's and M14's. What were the barrels shot out? A 3 MOA AK is really great. Most are not anywhere near that good.
Pat
Here's the program footage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6BpI3xD6h0
I'm wondering why they don't show the muzzle on the AR while a round is being sent downrange. In the first 6-7 seconds you can kind of watch the barrel on the AR flex, but w/o seeing the muzzle, I find it difficult to compare to the AK.
I didn't realize how much the 7.62x39 round penetrates.
I'd like to see an AK-74 in the comparison.
Failure2Stop
11-16-08, 13:55
5 MOA AR's and M14's. What were the barrels shot out? A 3 MOA AK is really great. Most are not anywhere near that good.
Pat
The point was not that good AKs are more accurate than bad M16s, just pointing out the extremes of the spectrum that I have personally witnessed.
Alaskapopo
11-16-08, 22:53
The point was not that good AKs are more accurate than bad M16s, just pointing out the extremes of the spectrum that I have personally witnessed.
Got it.
pat
hillmillenia
11-18-08, 21:21
It's all about reliability and combat accuracy not to mention simplicity of design and the ability to train men, women and children how to keep it shooting. MOA doesn't mean shit at 50 yds. with walls or brush for cover. I love the ergonomics of the AR platform but the AK is planet of the apes!:eek:
Lol. Hey Mark- he called you "Demi" :p
I happen to think Ms. Moore is hot, but... :D
The F86 is one of my all time favorites (10-1 kill ratio over the Mig 15:D). You should order Dogfights seasons 1 & 2 from the History Channel, they have several episodes covering the F86 in Korea.
could be a good Xmas gift
once I get all his slides scanned in I am going to make a nice slideshow for him on DVD
It seems more logical to me that they compare the bbl whip from a 5.45 to a 5.56, and not a 7.62. :confused:
LibertyCola
11-25-08, 00:25
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhGMScrXo28&watch_response
This is a Georgian news video comparing the two, the georgian spec ops soldier has his M4 pimped out more than 90% of american soldiers. He even has a sopmod stock! He must get the US sopmod kit.
It seems more logical to me that they compare the bbl whip from a 5.45 to a 5.56, and not a 7.62. :confused:
True but that wasn't the point. They were comparing the two weapons used on opposing sides in the Viet Nam war.
True but that wasn't the point. They were comparing the two weapons used on opposing sides in the Viet Nam war.
Good point. This show is only really possible in a historical context.
Why? Because during the war, the terms "AK-47" and "M16" defined a narrow field of very similar rifles.
Today, those terms include so many variants, of such varying quality, that its difficult to draw any meaningful conclusions from a comparison. Moreover, the meaningful difference between a modern 5.56mm chambered "AK" and an M4 length carbine - especially a piston-driven variant - has become blurred.
Examine a Swiss-made, Sig 552 carbine (actaully an SBR under US terms), and you find many design elements and concepts from both weapon systems.
Wish they had compared accuracy with a short barreled AR to the standard AK. Doesn't seem fair that they take a 20" AR with it's long sight radius and compare it to a shorter barreled AK and it's short sight radius.
Wish they had compared accuracy with a short barreled AR to the standard AK. Doesn't seem fair that they take a 20" AR with it's long sight radius and compare it to a shorter barreled AK and it's short sight radius.
They compared the guns that were used in the Viet Nam war. And they made the point that the long range accuracy of the M16 was irrelevant due to the way the VC fought.
In any case, a short barreled AR is no less accurate than a 20" gun. I used to subscribe to the sight radius notion, but recently I'm finding that my accuracy with a carbean radius is minimally worse than that of the rifle. The last class that I shot was more marksmanship oriented (which I didn't know prior to showing up), so I brought my 11.5" SBR. Scores and groups were checked after almost every drill, and a qual was done at the end of the second day. I smoked everyone in the class by a significant margin with my shorty.
True but that wasn't the point. They were comparing the two weapons used on opposing sides in the Viet Nam war.
Ahh. In that case, it makes perfect sense. Musta missed that bit.
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