View Full Version : Is GunBroker.com rigged?
I currently am bidding on two different firearms on gun broker, and several days before one auction was due to end and 9 days before the second one was to end, the same named entity came on and bid the price up on both items.
To the best of my ability to check this entity has never bought or sold a gun on gunbroker.
It smells like price manipulation to me.
The guns were steady at a lower price, I took top bid on both guns and held it for about 48 hours , then this joker that has never bought or sold anything jacks the price on both guns by $700 to 800. Then he just is gone, after I regain top bid again.
Is their anything I can d about this practice?
Sounds fishy , but it might be hard to prove something. I mostly do Buy now prices.
PB
What you’re describing is called shill bidding. There are a few sellers on GB that this behavior occurs regularly. If you didn’t bid again and the shill bidder remained the high bid the items likely would be relisted
Hate the player don’t hate the game yoni
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Straight Shooter
07-13-19, 20:36
What you’re describing is called shill bidding. There are a few sellers on GB that this behavior occurs regularly. If you didn’t bid again and the shill bidder remained the high bid the items likely would be relisted
Mauser is correct.. there are several reuglar sellers who do that crap.
There is also contact info on Gunbroker to notify them of this, maybe they can look into a specific seller.
Yeah, the way to deal with that is bid on what you want at closing. I've seen what you describe several times.
Inkslinger
07-13-19, 21:14
Hate the player don’t hate the game yoni
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Exactly. It is an auction after all. Shill or not, it’s the nature of the beast.
I am starting to investigate such rubbish. If you have had the same problem do a screen capture and send it to me.
I also have sent an email to GB.
Lastly give me your ideas on how we could eliminate this practice. I think if a person has never bought a gun, they should have a trial period where their bidding is subject to review .
I currently am bidding on two different firearms on gun broker, and several days before one auction was due to end and 9 days before the second one was to end, the same named entity came on and bid the price up on both items.
To the best of my ability to check this entity has never bought or sold a gun on gunbroker.
It smells like price manipulation to me.
The guns were steady at a lower price, I took top bid on both guns and held it for about 48 hours , then this joker that has never bought or sold anything jacks the price on both guns by $700 to 800. Then he just is gone, after I regain top bid again.
Is their anything I can d about this practice?
It is a free market economy. If they have a third party jack up the price........ move on. Don't do business with them. Nobody is forcing you to bid/buy anything.
It is a free market economy. If they have a third party jack up the price........ move on. Don't do business with them. Nobody is forcing you to bid/buy anything.This. Have a price in mind and stuck to it. I'll bid to X and one penny over is no longer of any interest and I move on like it never existed. Even when it's in my price range but someone jacks the price up by $700 I'm also done and out of there. I prefer my money over chunks of metal and plastic
Exactly. It is an auction after all. Shill or not, it’s the nature of the beast.
Actually no it is not. If it's a shill, it's fraud.
I don't know of any legit auction where a shill drops in to drive up the price and then gets to walk if the fish aren't biting that day.
I am starting to investigate such rubbish. If you have had the same problem do a screen capture and send it to me.
I also have sent an email to GB.
Lastly give me your ideas on how we could eliminate this practice. I think if a person has never bought a gun, they should have a trial period where their bidding is subject to review .
All you can do is what you are doing. If GB does not jump on that with both feet then I would suspect they are in on it. Which I doubt, but who knows these days.
If I'm reading you correctly. Let's say you and I are friends. You offer up a gun. 3rd party has a low bid that looks like it might win. I, out of nowhere, bid it up so you don't loose your money. Now if someone overbids me, that's life in the big city. If I win though, to protect you, and everything simply disappears to start over next week... that's fraud. I can't believe for a second GB would be cool with that as it would place them as a party to the whole deal.
I buy a lot of stuff online and I will not tolerate that. You are hard pressed to screw something up on eBay these days. Almost everyone has you covered. For GB to be running a 1940's sideshow at the traveling fair is beyond acceptable.
Now if you are simply upset because you thought you were going to get a free lunch on the Internet, and then went ahead and bid more money. That's pretty much all you. It may still be a crooked situation but you didn't have to keep adding money to the pot. It's gambling at that point. You didn't know it was a gambling site... but.....
I agree with you though. I take online transaction very seriously. I have a great expectation of honesty and I go out of my way to describe anything I am selling and that no bullshit occurs in between.
If you are dead certain this is happening I would tell GB that if they don't get on the ball then perhaps the FBI will. That's their bailiwicks, respectively.
If it's some dips**t running around bidding up and buying when they win. That's life. That's not how I'm reading you though. What you describe is an organize anonymous protection of the supposed auction. Screw that.
This is a prime example of 'our side' not communicating. If we can't have the modicum of trust among us to say that 'tent show' fraud is wrong, then were are we? If I walk into your sideshow and you fool me. That's on me. We have no way to know how many people get screwed everyday on the Internet or if the sellers are in the forums, which they probably are.
It's a pet peeve for me but I have bought and sold internationally ( not guns ) and the community and integrity must be honest among the buyers and sellers. It really speaks to me when a person's integrity is clear and they make it so regardless of their proximity.
Maybe you can check Whois to see if ShiilDealer.com is available.
I don't have a lot of rules but when it comes to spending money I don't expect that online buying is the same as sitting down at the poker table. Is that rain? Oh, no it's just another BS Internet gun dealer pissing down my back. Take them down. FBI, BBB, ATF, Local PD, they deserve no respectful treatment.
I agree yoni. I think it is discrimination. I would shoot off an email to the JIDF because I think they are purposely cheating you when you bid. It's an outrage and unfair. Someone should shut it down until they stop this chicanery. I stand with you on this one!
I am starting to investigate such rubbish. If you have had the same problem do a screen capture and send it to me.
I also have sent an email to GB.
Lastly give me your ideas on how we could eliminate this practice. I think if a person has never bought a gun, they should have a trial period where their bidding is subject to review .
You told us you own a Maclaren and even so you’re going to try and wage a crusade against a practice intended to cost you a pittance in the grand scheme of things despite reality being what it is.
Ok, seriously?
See if you can do something about auction sniping while you’re at it then
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All you can do is what you are doing. If GB does not jump on that with both feet then I would suspect they are in on it. Which I doubt, but who knows these days.
If I'm reading you correctly. Let's say you and I are friends. You offer up a gun. 3rd party has a low bid that looks like it might win. I, out of nowhere, bid it up so you don't loose your money. Now if someone overbids me, that's life in the big city. If I win though, to protect you, and everything simply disappears to start over next week... that's fraud. I can't believe for a second GB would be cool with that as it would place them as a party to the whole deal.
I buy a lot of stuff online and I will not tolerate that. You are hard pressed to screw something up on eBay these days. Almost everyone has you covered. For GB to be running a 1940's sideshow at the traveling fair is beyond acceptable.
Now if you are simply upset because you thought you were going to get a free lunch on the Internet, and then went ahead and bid more money. That's pretty much all you. It may still be a crooked situation but you didn't have to keep adding money to the pot. It's gambling at that point. You didn't know it was a gambling site... but.....
I agree with you though. I take online transaction very seriously. I have a great expectation of honesty and I go out of my way to describe anything I am selling and that no bullshit occurs in between.
If you are dead certain this is happening I would tell GB that if they don't get on the ball then perhaps the FBI will. That's their bailiwicks, respectively.
If it's some dips**t running around bidding up and buying when they win. That's life. That's not how I'm reading you though. What you describe is an organize anonymous protection of the supposed auction. Screw that.
This is a prime example of 'our side' not communicating. If we can't have the modicum of trust among us to say that 'tent show' fraud is wrong, then were are we? If I walk into your sideshow and you fool me. That's on me. We have no way to know how many people get screwed everyday on the Internet or if the sellers are in the forums, which they probably are.
It's a pet peeve for me but I have bought and sold internationally ( not guns ) and the community and integrity must be honest among the buyers and sellers. It really speaks to me when a person's integrity is clear and they make it so regardless of their proximity.
Maybe you can check Whois to see if ShiilDealer.com is available.
I don't have a lot of rules but when it comes to spending money I don't expect that online buying is the same as sitting down at the poker table. Is that rain? Oh, no it's just another BS Internet gun dealer pissing down my back. Take them down. FBI, BBB, ATF, Local PD, they deserve no respectful treatment.How do you prove its a false bid?
I don't buy or sell online very often but if I can't see or hold the product in my hands I automatically assume there's something wrong with it. People try to hide issues, it's what we do!
It doesn't matter what I own, or how much money I make.
Some things in life are fixed and I can't do a thing about it. LIBOR and gold prices have been rigged in the past and probably still are. But I can't do anything about it.
I see a problem and wanted to alert everyone.
I will still buy these pistols, all this idiot did was bring them up to market price, when before they looked like a good deal.
I agree yoni. I think it is discrimination. I would shoot off an email to the JIDF because I think they are purposely cheating you when you bid. It's an outrage and unfair. Someone should shut it down until they stop this chicanery. I stand with you on this one!
JIDF?
Jew IDF are you serious?
It doesn't matter what I own, or how much money I make.
Some things in life are fixed and I can't do a thing about it. LIBOR and gold prices have been rigged in the past and probably still are. But I can't do anything about it.
I see a problem and wanted to alert everyone.
I will still buy these pistols, all this idiot did was bring them up to market price, when before they looked like a good deal.It's your money and sounds like the price is still within reason but if I felt someone was dicking with me I'd be out of there regardless of price
JIDF?
Jew IDF are you serious?
thejidf.org
The Jewish Internet Defense Force.
They do a lot to stop the injustices and discriminations and unfairness.
I'm surprised you are unaware.
They will not stand for this if you explain how gunbroker is being unfair. They are literally depriving you of arms while trying to pick your pocket. Never Again!
The actions at gunbroker by a shill bidder, has nothing to do with me being Jewish. For me to claim other wise would simple not be true, and not something I would ever do.
I can afford to buy the pistols at the added $800 that the shill added, that isn't the point. The point is that if people are artificially driving up prices without buying guns ever, then the auctions are rigged.
The 2 auctions I am bidding on are from 2 different sellers and yet the same guy that has never bought anything comes in and drives up the price.
That should be unacceptable to the buying public.
I have bid my top price for these 2 guns and will buy the pistols at that price if I get them. However if both guns were to have sold for $700 to 800 less, then they would have been great deals.
.
I can afford to buy the pistols at the added $800 that the shill added, that isn't the point. The point is that if people are artificially driving up prices without buying guns ever, then the auctions are rigged.
.
Yes. Has been going on since eBay. With the first online auction product came the first online shill bidder.
People have been doing this with eBay cars/bikes since forever. Obviously it's not good but it's hard to stop because you don't know who's friends with whom.
Call it what you want but it is no more than the seller covering his own ass. I once listed a collectible pair of Remington shotguns on GB through a local guy who runs GB auctions for a living. I was fully prepared to buy the guns from myself if they didn't bring what I was looking for. What's wrong with that?
Yes. Has been going on since eBay. With the first online auction product came the first online shill bidder.
People have been doing this with eBay cars/bikes since forever
The practice is probably as old as the concept of an auction. It's also fairly common at live, in-person auctions, and generally functions as a sort of hidden reserve price. I've seen horse sales where one person is bidding against the auctioneer, and not another buyer, without realizing it. The auctioneer is trying to get the bid up to the consignor's minimum selling price, but may have had to start well below it to get bidding started.
GB has a policy against shill bidding and will usually ban anyone caught participating in it. I've heard they track IP addresses to help in combating this, but I'm not sure how effective that is in the age of the VPN.
Call it what you want but it is no more than the seller covering his own ass. I once listed a collectible pair of Remington shotguns on GB through a local guy who runs GB auctions for a living. I was fully prepared to buy the guns from myself if they didn't bring what I was looking for. What's wrong with that?Put a reserve
The practice is probably as old as the concept of an auction. It's also fairly common at live, in-person auctions, and generally functions as a sort of hidden reserve price (something eBay actually has available to sellers, GB not so much). I've seen horse sales where one person is bidding against the auctioneer, and not another buyer, without realizing it. The auctioneer is trying to get the bid up to the consignor's minimum selling price, but may have had to start well below it to get bidding started.
GB has a policy against shill bidding and will usually ban anyone caught participating in it. I've heard they track IP addresses to help in combating this, but I'm not sure how effective that is in the age of the VPN.Exactly same thing happens at car auctions
Call it what you want but it is no more than the seller covering his own ass. I once listed a collectible pair of Remington shotguns on GB through a local guy who runs GB auctions for a living. I was fully prepared to buy the guns from myself if they didn't bring what I was looking for. What's wrong with that?
Nothing, at least as far as I'm concerned.
To me that's no different than you sitting at a live auction and bidding on your own property. If you win, you still have to pay the auction company (and in your case probably the guy listing your items). It's just that the portion of the sale price that's left over after the fees and commission are paid comes back to you, and you get to keep your stuff.
It's a subtle difference, but I wouldn't say that's the same as the seller himself using a shill to bump the price.
But I've also come to expect a certain amount of shill bidding and agree with what some of the others have said - set an upper limit on price, and if the bid reaches that walk away.
Most of the bidding on no-reserve GB auctions happens at the last minute anyways, and the 15 minute rule pretty much makes eBay style bid sniping impossible, so there is plenty of time to respond to being outbid at the end of an auction..
I have bought many guns at GunBroker and have never had this happen till now. To have the same guy come in on 2 different sellers auctions and bid the price up and walk away, struck me as not being fair.
The only thing the auctions have in common was the pistols are the same model.
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The only thing the auctions have in common was the pistols are the same model.
Then maybe just bad luck. Guy could be like me. Here's my price and walk away. I win great! I don't, no loss to me!
Averageman
07-14-19, 08:31
I've used GB a couple of times, I quit using it for exactly the reasons you explained.
There are legit Sellers, but I believe several of them use the system you described.
The final remedy was to watch the item closely and don't bid until about 25 seconds before the Auction ends.
I don't have time for that kind of malarkey.
Then maybe just bad luck. Guy could be like me. Here's my price and walk away. I win great! I don't, no loss to me!
But his record show no purchase or sales in the last 12 months.
But his record show no purchase or sales in the last 12 months.I don't know what to tell you. I'm kinda guestimating but he could just not be a big purchaser. I can only use myself as an example but I've had a GB account for over a decade and maybe have bought 3 or 4 times. Last time I had a GB transaction that I can remember of the top of my head was when I sold a case of Radway Green 7.62Nato during the great panic. That's been what.... about 6 years?!?
Don Robison
07-14-19, 09:15
If you think they are shill bidding report it to GB. If they agree they will lock.the accounts
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How do you prove its a false bid?
I don't know. I've only been on GB a couple times. I seem to recall I had to use a legit emial from my ISP, give other traceable info. So while IP addresses might change they still have means to track users.
GB has some form of reserve I'm sure because I sold a gun there once and I wouold not simply list something without some super low price protection.
Yes, every auction has some protection for the seller even if they have to bid on their own items, but they have to pay the fees. If they want to keep paying fees to sell something that's their business. Not any differnet from listing a $20K car in the newspaper and knowing it's only going to bring $5K. If they want to keep throwing their money away, it's their business.
Sniping is no different than a bidder placeing a very high bid. You can't snipe for $100 when someone has already logged a $200 bid ceiling.
In fact eBay even has a system where a deadbeat bidder which could be a shill too is basically eliminated from the system. If winner does not pay, you can offer it to the next highest. That would surely help GB find shills becasue the seller would never offer the 2nd chance deal in a shill setup.
Gun Broker
Reserve Price
https://support.gunbroker.com/hc/en-us/articles/223428488-Reserve-Prices-and-Starting-Bids
Shill Bidding, Price Manipulation, and Duplicate Accounts
https://support.gunbroker.com/hc/en-us/articles/222147887-Shill-Bidding-Price-Manipulation-and-Duplicate-Accounts
Nightvisionary
07-14-19, 11:11
There is a particular somewhat rare firearm that I believe is significantly undervalued in the current market and thus a great opportunity for collectors. I bid regularly on these guns in the off chance I can acquire one at a very good price and to keep the selling prices above $450.
I don't understand why sellers who are concerned about getting burned just simply place the minimum they are willing to take as the starting bid?? I buy & sell a lot on gunbroker. Here's everything I have listed & prefer to do a true auction starting at a penny for my items & for customers willing to take the risk. Those who want a minimum amount is discussed & that is the starting price like the FN Mauser. I always thought reserve prices was a strange practice as well, just tell me what you want for it...only time I see it useful is if I wanted to gauge value but not actually sell it with some ridiculous high reserve & a low starting point.
https://www.gunbroker.com/All/search?IncludeSellers=154786
The hk mount & the older laser grips end soon but aren't bringing squat, but I've had them lying around forever...hell, I don't even know where the mount came from & the grips were give to me so at this point happy somebody will get to enjoy them. I have nothing in them. If they end where they are now it will be the first time I've ever had a penny auction not get close to a window I considered market. When I bid, I let gb do my bidding & place the max amount I'm willing to pay & be done with it.
GB really isn't affected by shill bidding either...the seller HAS to re-list to be able to get credit for the commission. If they don't re-list, then the seller just paid GB for an item they are keeping so it's not like GB can get cut out by shilling. Yoni, I would be interested to see what sort of response GB gives you for the concern.
But his record show no purchase or sales in the last 12 months.
The next question is, how long have they been a member? If GB shows that info- usually there should be something in their profile like "member since xxxx".
I have a sold a lot of stuff on line, and this happens sort of in reverse all the time TO me on ebay; some jackass that just signed up yesterday, has never bought anything and has 0 feedback will bid your item up and then never pay. Or "but it now" and never pay.
That place is RIFE with bot accounts- perhaps that's all this is. If common on ebay, why not other bid sites?
Does the seller have more auctions?
What might be a good experiment is to "watch" all of them and see who bids, or who scores the winning bid (if you can do that on GB? I'm not entirely familiar with how that site works). Should be a good gauge of whether they're shilling, or you've just been bot'ed.
You told us you own a Maclaren and even so you’re going to try and wage a crusade against a practice intended to cost you a pittance in the grand scheme of things despite reality being what it is.
Ok, seriously?
See if you can do something about auction sniping while you’re at it then
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It doesn’t matter how rich or poor Yoni is, shill bidding is a scam done to artificially increase the price of an item. In a legal sense it’s fraud and a criminal offense is some states, NY is one that I know of where it’s a crime.
I always wait to the last minute to bid at an auction so as not to tip my hand, especially at a live one. As someone else said set a price in your mind and stick to it.
The next question is, how long have they been a member? If GB shows that info- usually there should be something in their profile like "member since xxxx".
I have a sold a lot of stuff on line, and this happens sort of in reverse all the time TO me on ebay; some jackass that just signed up yesterday, has never bought anything and has 0 feedback will bid your item up and then never pay. Or "but it now" and never pay.
That place is RIFE with bot accounts- perhaps that's all this is. If common on ebay, why not other bid sites?
Does the seller have more auctions?
What might be a good experiment is to "watch" all of them and see who bids, or who scores the winning bid (if you can do that on GB? I'm not entirely familiar with how that site works). Should be a good gauge of whether they're shilling, or you've just been bot'ed.
I don't do Ebay but You can do all you are suggesting on gb...I doubt winning shill bidders / sellers leave feedback on any winning items so looking at the seller's rating likely won't show a pattern. Easiest thing to do would be an advanced search by seller's name on all of their completed auctions & then look at the bid history to see if the same bidder is on multiple items jacking with the pricing.
That bidder could have been me a few years back. After little to no activity on GB for a couple of years I got the sudden yen for a Winchester 1892 pump .22 carny rifle. I didn’t want to bother monitoring the auctions so just jumped the bids up early on a couple to within about 5-10% what I thought they were worth. 2-3 times the current bid. Then walked away.
Ended up negotiating for a nice one for about half of those bids from a different seller 50 miles from me. The numbskull posted just two full length pics so dark no condition judgement could be made. And started the bidding so high no one except me bothered to request specific, close up photos.
So the one auction is over, now I can see how much this guy bid it up.
First bid up by $420
Second bid up by $300
Last bid $200
I am not saying I could have bought the pistol for that much less, but I am sure it would have been less than I ended up paying.
Instead of maybe getting a deal since under President Trump my understanding is that gun sales are weak. I got it at going rate a year or so ago.
We were the only 2 bidding, from the price of 1080to 2k
Gun sales are weak on used / common big box firearms...the market is still very strong within the collector realm, especially with minty condition items no longer produced with the the Colt DA snake series & Pre-64 Winchesters as an easy example of values that continue to appreciate.
Do a completed search for the gun you purchased & compare what others in similar condition sold for...that is the current market. Unless you see this bidder doing the same bidding action for the same seller for multiple auctions, then I suspect you simply had an other enthusiast who wanted the same pistol. All of that can be researched with the Advanced Search function.
I am starting to investigate such rubbish. If you have had the same problem do a screen capture and send it to me.
I also have sent an email to GB.
Lastly give me your ideas on how we could eliminate this practice. I think if a person has never bought a gun, they should have a trial period where their bidding is subject to review .
Would do nothing. The same seller would just offer some low price junk for shill bidders to establish their trial period. Some times it's other collectors running up the bid to keep prices on certain items high and then cancelling their bid as a mistake.
It's basically ebay for guns and it has all the same problems and you'll never fix them.
Yes, there are some games played on GB. I've made probably over a dozen aquisitions on the site and have made a system that I use to not get caught up in the freinzy or game.
1. If an item is at a low price with no bidders, I place an initial bid so it can't be pulled from the auction.
2. I generally don't bid on items that are subject to be pulled for an 'in store' sale off the rack.
3. Do your due diligence and know the street price and what you are willing to pay. If the photos are dark and blurred ask for better photos to include cartouche marks ect.
4. I bid at the last minute and wait it out. I might lowball the first bid then directly follow back with my top price bumping my lowball by the bid increment and walk away. I might counter if it is a rare, one off item but then you are feeding the game. If you stick to your predetermined bid and not get sucked in, it is up to the shill bidder to figure out how far they can push your bid up without going over your bid.
I had this happen on an Anschutz 1730 rifle in 22 Hornet years ago that would start @ 6 bills each time. My uncle price was 930-975. Took three auctions but the opposing bidder either found another copy or got smart after winning the item twice for over 1200 each time. I played the game with him twice and left him holding the bag. The third auction I took it in the 775-830 area, I can't recall.
It can be fustrating and I generally save sellers that this happens with for future reference to avoid. GB really doesn't give a crap as long as they get their fees. There has to be multiple accusations with a good trail of bread crumbs for them to take any actions against a seller. The shill bidder has to be connected to the seller.
Call it what you want but it is no more than the seller covering his own ass. I once listed a collectible pair of Remington shotguns on GB through a local guy who runs GB auctions for a living. I was fully prepared to buy the guns from myself if they didn't bring what I was looking for. What's wrong with that?
In that case, can't you set a reserve price?
Even with the very few times I've bought on an online auction, I'm inherently suspicious of no reserve items. It's a come on - everyone has a minimum they will take.
Don Robison
07-14-19, 18:21
Call it what you want but it is no more than the seller covering his own ass. I once listed a collectible pair of Remington shotguns on GB through a local guy who runs GB auctions for a living. I was fully prepared to buy the guns from myself if they didn't bring what I was looking for. What's wrong with that?It's against the terms of use and shady to say the least. The seller covering his ass is setting the opening bid at the minimum he will accept or setting a reserve.
If the guy makes a living at GunBroker and is too stupid to do that I wouldn't use him.
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It's against the terms of use and shady to say the least. The seller covering his ass is setting the opening bid at the minimum he will accept or setting a reserve.
If the guy makes a living at GunBroker and is too stupid to do that I wouldn't use him.
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Show me where bidding on my own listing hosted by myself or others is against GB terms and conditions. The only sellers that set a reserve/buy now price are retailers taking advantage of cheap advertising! Why else would they ask retail for something as common a a Glock 19 on an auction site?? The haters need to be reminded that there is NO such thing as a free lunch.
Don Robison
07-14-19, 19:52
Show me where bidding on my own listing hosted by myself or others is against GB terms and conditions. The only sellers that set a reserve/buy now price are retailers taking advantage of cheap advertising! Why else would they ask retail for something as common a a Glock 19 on an auction site?? The haters need to be reminded that there is NO such thing as a free lunch.Look up shill bidding. That is where you bid on your own item to manipulate the price. It's against the TOS.
It's not hating, it's called not being a douche bag.
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I am starting to investigate such rubbish. If you have had the same problem do a screen capture and send it to me.
I also have sent an email to GB.
Lastly give me your ideas on how we could eliminate this practice. I think if a person has never bought a gun, they should have a trial period where their bidding is subject to review .
It happens and honestly is not worth getting wrapped around the axle over it. If it’s easy to report, donit. But it’s not likely going away.
The actions at gunbroker by a shill bidder, has nothing to do with me being Jewish. For me to claim other wise would simple not be true, and not something I would ever do.
I can afford to buy the pistols at the added $800 that the shill added, that isn't the point. The point is that if people are artificially driving up prices without buying guns ever, then the auctions are rigged.
The 2 auctions I am bidding on are from 2 different sellers and yet the same guy that has never bought anything comes in and drives up the price.
That should be unacceptable to the buying public.
I have bid my top price for these 2 guns and will buy the pistols at that price if I get them. However if both guns were to have sold for $700 to 800 less, then they would have been great deals.
There is also a bizarre group of nincompoops on GB who seemingly live to push up the prices on auctions. I know of reputable people selling high dollar items who have complained about bidders pushing up prices, only to win and not pay. It happens not infrequently with no reserve transferable machineguns. I don’t really understand these people, maybe they get a thrill from bidding and do so gambling that they are not going to win.
What you are speaking of here is normal and typical behavior of every bid purchase I have ever tried on gunbroker.
I end up high bidder until the very end and end up getting our bid. A few days later the item is reposted under a different seller. I refuse to buy from gunbroker now unless it is a buy it now deal with a great price.
It's against the terms of use and shady to say the least. The seller covering his ass is setting the opening bid at the minimum he will accept or setting a reserve.
If the guy makes a living at GunBroker and is too stupid to do that I wouldn't use him.
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Yep, if I start a $1 auction, I better be willing to sell for a $1. That's why I only do it with things like accessories. Otherwise minimum bid is the start bid or I have a reserve.
On the other side of the equation, shills can't hurt me. I set my maximum bid and if a shill runs it up and nobody else bids, then the gun will be up for resale soon. If somebody bids higher than my maximum bid, then they wanted it more than I did.
I've been disappointed when items I'm selling have sold for less than expected, I've been disappointed when items I was hoping to buy sold for more than I was willing to pay. But this is exactly the nature of an AUCTION. If you want a sure thing, look at Buy It Now options.
I'd like to buy a Colt Python for $700, but it isn't gonna happen. I'd like to sell my vintage Colt Commander for $2,500 but it isn't gonna happen.
Gun prices are currently down, but that is only on current production firearms...not collectibles. This is the best time to buy something like Colt 6920s and similar items. The market is saturated and you can expect to pay about $25 above dealer price, let alone retail. But those cheap surplus HK P7s that came in at $400-500 years ago...well plan on paying $1,200 or more if you want one because that is what they are going for.
Shoulda, coulda, woulda...and if you didn't get one then well the price they are now won't make you happy. I've grabbed some great stuff at great prices over the years, but I also missed out on some great opportunities that I wish I jumped on.
If it's rare, if it's collectible, you aren't the only one looking at it. Comes down to how bad you want it. I've overpaid in the past for the right firearm in the right condition that I didn't want to miss the boat on. 15 years later I'm not crying about how I paid 10% ABOVE market prices at the time. I have one and I'm happy.
I know the game where people get paid to run up the price $50 or more in the last hour of an auction. But they can't get me if I'm not willing to bid pass my maximum bid. They can get somebody else if they let it become a bid war. And I've even done that a few times in the past to make sure I got a missing Polytech variant AK I needed to complete a set. I overpaid, didn't care. Probably got shilled for at least an extra $100, didn't care. I was willing to pay for it.
And this is nothing new, before Gunbroker you saw all kinds of shenanigans at Gun Shows. The price on the table isn't necessarily the price. If you know what you are doing and especially if you are willing to be a few things you could put together some sweet deals back in the day, but you better be ready to cash and carry. And I've even seen other dealers come over and become interested in a firearm somebody was seriously looking at either just to make the guy close the deal at the advertised price or in some cases to try and run the price up by offering a counter offer as "another buyer."
Seen the same dealers then turn around and absolutely rob old timers who didn't know what their guns were worth. Late 90s I watched a dealer take a Winchester Garand from an old timer for about $400 and then he went around to the other dealers showing off the "steal of the day", I personally thought he was a scumbag and I'd have told the guy what it was worth and what I was willing to pay and if he thought he could do better elsewhere he'd have had my good wishes. Back in my mind I figured the guy probably carried a Garand in the war and that is the last kind of person I want to take advantage of just so I can double my money.
But such is the nature of the gun biz, sketchy sellers, dubious dealer and nickel and dime buyers.
What you are speaking of here is normal and typical behavior of every bid purchase I have ever tried on gunbroker.
I end up high bidder until the very end and end up getting our bid. A few days later the item is reposted under a different seller. I refuse to buy from gunbroker now unless it is a buy it now deal with a great price.
Again, I do mostly penny auctions & all the prices climb substantially in the last hour...GB is great for the seller & you cannot get out bid at the 'very end' because every bid within the last 15mins automatically puts another 15mins to the auction & sends an email out to the previous bidder that he has been outbid. I have seen my auctions continue for another hour & more after they were supposed to end. This is why as a buyer I let GB do the bidding on my behalf & simply put the max I'm willing to pay & don't give it another thought. Too easy to get into that trap & get sucked into not 'losing'. (at least for me anyway).
If the gun you were bidding on got re-listed by another seller, then it either sold for a price someone could flip for a profit or simply wanted out of it for whatever reason...really no other logical reason to pay GB a commission & let the shill bidder re-sell??
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