View Full Version : Gen2 PMag - 4ft Drop; Cracked - Also Magpul Cust. Service Thumbs Up
grizzlyblake
07-23-19, 13:47
I figured I would post this simply as a data point as well as a reminder to keep plenty of spare mags around.
Last night I was moving some stuff in my gun closet and I dropped a two week old Gen 2 PMag 30 loaded with 30 rounds from about 4 feet high. It landed on my hardwood floor and a handful of rounds shot out. When I picked it up I saw that the spine had cracked and the remaining rounds were working their way out. The mag was trashed.
I called Magpul today and they are sending me out a new one - no questions asked. They didn't even want the broken one sent to them.
I've never had a PMag fail and I was pretty surprised at how easily it happened. I'm curious exactly how it landed, and I wonder how a GI mag would fare in the same situation. Regardless - it's a good reminder to keep spares ready to go.
https://i.imgur.com/jXgnUVJ.jpg
I'd have to leave the remaining rounds in, take it to the range, and test fire it to see if it was still functional. I bet it would still feed.
Doc Safari
07-23-19, 14:49
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZE2jEhOPQY&t=9s
I'd have to leave the remaining rounds in, take it to the range, and test fire it to see if it was still functional. I bet it would still feed.
I have no doubt that would still work.
Eurodriver
07-23-19, 17:04
Weren’t the M3s better at handling this sort of failure.
What good does replacement and or customer service do for you if they break while you are being ****ed between a rock and a hard spot? NONE! Customer service is part of marketing. Marketing is why Magpul is where they are today. Maybe they will respond with the number of warranty claims they have serviced to date but i doubt they will.
Eurodriver
07-23-19, 20:15
What good does replacement and or customer service do for you if they break while you are being ****ed between a rock and a hard spot? NONE! Customer service is part of marketing. Marketing is why Magpul is where they are today. Maybe they will respond with the number of warranty claims they have serviced to date but i doubt they will.
You sound cranky.
grizzlyblake
07-23-19, 20:17
Yeah it kind of freaked me out. Just an easy four foot fall onto real hardwood flooring. It wouldn't have bothered my Glock mags a bit.
Come to think of it I may have dropped a loaded Okay mag the same way in the past and my only concern was the scratch on the floor.
I can't take away from the customer service though. Phone call took less than a minute and sounded like something they do constantly.
Newsflash - if you drop something, it CAN break.
Sure, most quality stuff WONT break. But it can, depending on height, weight, force, angle, etc.
Five_Point_Five_Six
07-23-19, 20:54
What good does replacement and or customer service do for you if they break while you are being ****ed between a rock and a hard spot? NONE! Customer service is part of marketing. Marketing is why Magpul is where they are today. Maybe they will respond with the number of warranty claims they have serviced to date but i doubt they will.
Why are Boomers like this?
turnburglar
07-23-19, 20:57
Come to think of it I may have dropped a loaded Okay mag the same way in the past and my only concern was the scratch on the floor.
You 'think' it's ok because of how it looks. I was never at the range and a problem mag was obvisouly deformed. The benefit of a Pmag is if it looks GTG, it IS GTG. Even when a crack develops, the reaminder of ammo will ussualy feed flawlessly. Aluminium mags can look fine, and fail you. Hard.
ALL magazines should be considered a high wear, high replacement item. The "I want to keep these forever" mentality is prepper BS that has no merit in real use.
Had it been an Okay USGI, the lips could have bent from a 4 foot drop, leaving you in the same situation.
OP, I would just chalk it up to an oddity and drive on. Unless someone takes 100 each and performs every imaginable drop, throw, bang into X to come up with a measurable conclusion, use what you want or have and don't worry.
Like others, I have both, don't care either way in my opinion. Seen both fail in many ways, just depends what they are subjected to.
monkeywrench
07-24-19, 07:45
You 'think' it's ok because of how it looks. I was never at the range and a problem mag was obvisouly deformed. The benefit of a Pmag is if it looks GTG, it IS GTG. Even when a crack develops, the reaminder of ammo will ussualy feed flawlessly. Aluminium mags can look fine, and fail you. Hard.
ALL magazines should be considered a high wear, high replacement item. The "I want to keep these forever" mentality is prepper BS that has no merit in real use.
For anyone that lived and had to deal with the assault weapon ban of 1994 would understand why many don't believe magazines are a desposible item. Aluminum mags can be repaired to some degree.
The pmags can't be repaired!
Doc Safari
07-24-19, 07:57
I am constantly amazed at the Pmag apologists.
I am constantly amazed at the Pmag apologists.
I think you meant to say, I need a cup of coffee and in the future I will contribute in a positive manner?
Eurodriver
07-24-19, 08:43
I answered my own question.
http://soldiersystems.net/2012/10/23/pmag-gen-m3usgi-feedlip-drop-test/
The M3 PMAG is designed to withstand this type of drop. There is a reason the Gen2s are so cheap. They’re old and weren’t tested as throughly. Why are people still buying them?
I am a Magpul apologist. I am not going to fault an entirely company for a 15 year old magazine design that has already had an upgraded replacement in the market for a decade.
They are a good company, with good people, and they’re the only magazines I’ll buy. I’ve never had a magazine related failure since using an Okay mag with a black follower at the Puuloa range in 2009 because all I’ve ever used are M3s. I know they’ve been out for a long ass time because we were issued them in 2010.
Buy Gen3s. Put them in your Colts and enjoy a lifetime of freedom from asking questions about broken parts and failures to fire on the internet. Im blown away that in 2019 people are still putting up with ARs jamming.
I think you meant to say, I need a cup of coffee and in the future I will contribute in a positive manner?
BOOM.
Why are Boomers like this?
Lol - they’re always so angry with nothing to contribute.
I think it's better than nothing that Magpul sent out a new mag. It sure beats them saying "Yeah, that happens from time to time....click". In a situation where warranty doesn't mean a whole lot, you probably have more pressing issues than a crack in your magazine.
OP, Out of curiosity, are they sending out a new M2 or an M3?
I'd have to leave the remaining rounds in, take it to the range, and test fire it to see if it was still functional. I bet it would still feed.
Ditto here, & I bet ^^^^^ is correct.
The_War_Wagon
07-24-19, 16:09
The luck of the fall.
I took my new Bren 805 to the range for the first time last week. FIRST thing I did was fumble a full PMag out of it, from about a distance of about 5', onto the CONCRETE floor of the range... & nothing happened! Not a scratch on the mag. :blink:
556BlackRifle
07-24-19, 17:50
The luck of the fall.
I took my new Bren 805 to the range for the first time last week. FIRST thing I did was fumble a full PMag out of it, from about a distance of about 5', onto the CONCRETE floor of the range... & nothing happened! Not a scratch on the mag. :blink:
Your experiences mirror my own. I have numerous Gen 2 windowed and non windowed as well as numerous Gen 3. I've dropped a few and haven't had a single crack. (Full disclosure; several of my Gen 2 mags are equipped with ranger plates which may act as a buffer if the mag is dropped directly on the plate.)
grizzlyblake
07-24-19, 20:53
I answered my own question.
http://soldiersystems.net/2012/10/23/pmag-gen-m3usgi-feedlip-drop-test/
The M3 PMAG is designed to withstand this type of drop. There is a reason the Gen2s are so cheap. They’re old and weren’t tested as throughly. Why are people still buying them?
I am a Magpul apologist. I am not going to fault an entirely company for a 15 year old magazine design that has already had an upgraded replacement in the market for a decade.
They are a good company, with good people, and they’re the only magazines I’ll buy. I’ve never had a magazine related failure since using an Okay mag with a black follower at the Puuloa range in 2009 because all I’ve ever used are M3s. I know they’ve been out for a long ass time because we were issued them in 2010.
Buy Gen3s. Put them in your Colts and enjoy a lifetime of freedom from asking questions about broken parts and failures to fire on the internet. Im blown away that in 2019 people are still putting up with ARs jamming.
BOOM.
Lol - they’re always so angry with nothing to contribute.
Thanks for the link. I've read the MCT Gen 3s are supposed to be a bit stronger than black so I may buy a bunch of them. Up to now I've pretty much only run NHMTGs/Okays and a few Gen 3 20 rounders.
Like I said in my OP, the takeaway for me is to just have plenty of spares and know that everything breaks.
Doc Safari
07-25-19, 07:31
Yes...it's a broken magazine. Maybe salvage the spring, follower, and floorplate, but as a magazine it's toast. There's nothing mystical about a broken Pmag. My favorite LGS has a box of them and the owner uses them for parts. He also has a box of dented USGI mags. No need for the "WTF?" reaction over a Pmag being broken. Pmags break. Maybe later revisions are better than earlier ones, but Pmags do break. You don't look at cracks on your bolt and rationalize it will still work: you replace the bolt. A mag is expendable. Trash it.
Eurodriver
07-25-19, 09:31
Thanks for the link. I've read the MCT Gen 3s are supposed to be a bit stronger than black so I may buy a bunch of them. Up to now I've pretty much only run NHMTGs/Okays and a few Gen 3 20 rounders.
Like I said in my OP, the takeaway for me is to just have plenty of spares and know that everything breaks.
I own no MCT Gen3s, and I own so many black Gen3s that it wouldn’t make sense for me to get some but I’m sure they will serve you well. Let us know.
Please also let us know if they give you an M2 or M3 magazine as a replacement. I’m very curious if they still have M2s in stock, let alone are still making M2s.
ffhounddog
07-25-19, 11:50
Depending on the Date Code of the Moe/Gen2 it could have been one of the PMAGs before MAGPUL started using the same formula as it does with the M3s now. Just an observation it is what I was told they switched the formation of the MOE and M3 to the same "plastic" part of the reason why only Black now on the MOE.
Granted I have PMAGs from one machine be thinker than PMAGs from another Machine as well. I.E. barely fit in Magwells where other MOE PMAGs will fit.
Mike Miller
07-26-19, 11:10
They have said in the past that they are going to continue making m2 pmags because it makes sense to continue using the existing molds
I'm not a magpul whore, but I do have a nice stash of the M3 versions.
I have a couple of the M2s that came with rifles but I just beat on them as training mags.
They have said in the past that they are going to continue making m2 pmags because it makes sense to continue using the existing molds
And 95% of users fingerbang their AR15s once or twice a year, from a bench and never drop magazines.
Not all users need the 'best'.
I'm not a magpul whore, but I do have a nice stash of the M3 versions.
I have a couple of the M2s that came with rifles but I just beat on them as training mags.
My stash consists of about 10 first generation and the rest M2s. Maybe that's bad?
On the other hand, if I broke one every 5 or 6 months, I'd keel over before I ran out of Pmags.
jackblack73
07-26-19, 16:25
They have said in the past that they are going to continue making m2 pmags because it makes sense to continue using the existing molds
I have read that they updated the M2s in that they are made with the same polymer as the M3s.
I have so damn many pmags as well as Okays it’s stupid. We have one issue with one it’s target practice. Over the years not so often though. They are like brass, you can reuse them but don’t have to. Both pmags and Okay and Colt have served me well. But all can fail. A loaded mag is pretty heavy and can certainly trash any manufacture. And who takes one mag to a fire fight. Nobody.
PB
During spring and summer rifle training rotations about a dozen 30rd pmags from an early batch were found with short cracks down the spine. The mags are all dedicated training mags bought for that purpose or rotated into it. Age and round count can only be estimated, and they have been treated and neglected badly. When put in guns, most run fine. Others in the batch that haven't cracked yet will probably do so eventually. A batch of M2 and M3 treated the same show no issues. They have less use but are similarly abused.
I have a bunch of the factory orange pmags. They are shot, loaned, battered and abused. I have retired only one thus far. I just ran early 20rd pmags with the straight body through some classes. They function fine, but I know other shooters that have had quirks. I'll replace mine when they die.
All new purchases are m3s because that's the latest tech. By the time the m3s die, I'm sure there will be a 4, 5, or 6. I'm no apologist, but this isn't anything novel or unique to Magpul. Manufacturers learn stuff as they make stuff.
After the owner, mags are the weakest link in the system. Treat mags like a wear item, don't get attached, and get more while the gettin' is good.
Okay, so what is the best metal mag to buy?
I have been buying PMAGs so long that I have not been paying attention.
thanks
Okay, so what is the best metal mag to buy?
NHMTG / Okay 20 & 30rd mags (same company). D&H are good too, although I prefer / stock up on Okays. D&H are often OEM providers to PSA, DSG, BCM, etc - they just put floorplates with the company name on.
http://www.surefeedmagazines.com/
Eurodriver
07-27-19, 07:07
http://www.surefeedmagazines.com/
Weak.
Okay, so what is the best metal mag to buy? I have been buying PMAGs so long that I have not been paying attention. thanks
I often add a GI type mag or two before online checkout at whatever (GTG) site I'm buying on. No real preference.
When pulled for use, I'll add a magpul follower if they don't have one already.
Thanks.
Now that I think of it, I don't think I have bought anything but a PMAG in the last 8 years. Kinda embarrassing that I have not kept track of metal mags. The old go-to for metal magazines was always Okays with magpul followers.
http://www.surefeedmagazines.com/
Weak.
Thanks for the tip. What is the issue with Surefeed mags?
Stuff breaks...this is why I have Pmags, D&G mags....Lancer....HK.......and a few Beretta....a few...MFT
Okay is on my list to get..
Thanks for the tip. What is the issue with Surefeed mags?
There is no issue with Surefeed / Okay / NHMTG mags. They have been Colt OEM and a supplier to the US military for a long, long time.
I like PMAGs and have M3 and some PMAG LR for 308s - they have their place but sometimes Magpul FanBois have a hard time believing that something which has worked for decades can still be useful.
PMAGs have some wonderful features and can take some serious damage and still work. But like everything else, they can and will break. For that reason, I have a mix of probably 75% NHMTG/Okay/D&H mags and 25% PMAGs. Never put all your eggs in 1 basket.
Anything man made can break. A usgi mag may have deformed the feedlip, which I’ve done, recently, to a Colt mag.
turnburglar
07-29-19, 17:24
For anyone that lived and had to deal with the assault weapon ban of 1994 would understand why many don't believe magazines are a desposible item. Aluminum mags can be repaired to some degree.
The pmags can't be repaired!
I understand why clutching to mags like pearls makes 'financial sense'... but in a tactical environment a repaired Aluminium magazine is dumber than carrying appendix without a holster. If you actually have the abilities to restore stamped Aluminium to one one-thousandth dimensional tolerances, than you are more than half way to manufacturing. If youre the guy that thinks he can fix a magazine with a multi tool.... fudds gonna fudd. In the military when we found a bad magazine we crushed them with a sledge before throwing them in the trash. The reason we crushed them is so that stupid people wouldnt dig them out of the trash.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Which is actually a selling point for PMAGs, when they are broke you know it and can toss them. Troublesome metal mags can stay in the mix for a long time.
Even so, I like having both available.
turnburglar
07-30-19, 14:45
I agree having both available is wise. But when I came back from afghanistan with 100 Okay tan followers in a laundry bag.... I sold almost all of them. I will pay full price for Pmags. In my experience Pmags are just more trouble free. Aluminium feed lips are REALLY easy to get out of spec, and its hard to diagnose. To me that makes it hard to justify keeping Al mags that are not brand new. Sure I can mark a troublsome mag at the range or take it out of rotation, but Pmags literally dont have the same problem. One of my buddies has original Pmags that he took to afghanistan. Still uses them training in AZ. When they get too dirty he disassembles and throws in the dish washer. Re assembles, and they still work. Have some cracked from the original group? Yup. And they where immediately thrown away and never caused a single stoppage. You cant beat that. Having a reliable AR is more about mindset than the actual hardware.
Loaded long term, does one stand above the other? In other words, is it better or same to keep loaded metal or polymer mags?
jackblack73
07-30-19, 17:41
When the Magpul rep used to post more my takeaway wasn’t that their mags were indestructible. It was that testing showed they were much more reliable than GI mags. And a small part of that was that it could be difficult to tell when a GI mag was damaged and should be retired.
I'm with Rhino. My stash is
1/3 pmag gen 2 thirties
2/3 Okay, Colt, NHMTG (mostly thirties but a few twenties)
My range mags are a handful of USGI 20s and 30s. The 30s have new springs and magpul followes.
Doesn't hurt to have a mix.
I'm with Rhino. My stash is
1/3 pmag gen 2 thirties
2/3 Okay, Colt, NHMTG (mostly thirties but a few twenties)
My range mags are a handful of USGI 20s and 30s. The 30s have new springs and magpul followes.
Doesn't hurt to have a mix.
Indeed.
I'm exhausted from the debate of polymer vs. aluminum. To settle it, I just keep an even 50/50 split of PMAG and Okay.
Eh let me know when they do better than dead last at Aberdeen.
Lancers, ftw.
usgi mag would not have broken like that. That said, congratulations you have broken a pmag! I have not yet...
grizzlyblake
07-31-19, 22:58
Replacement arrived today. Gen 2.
Here is what happened when a fully loaded Gen 2 fell from the top of my safe (about 5’) onto the hardwood floor below. It was raining ammo..
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190801/101b76ac364fe214731b5b59404ff7f7.jpg
grizzlyblake
08-01-19, 05:50
Pretty much the exact same thing as mine.
I guess just be really careful and never let fully loaded PMags hit the ground.
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