View Full Version : Dude answers door with paint ball gun...
Dude answers door with paint gun, things go south real fast. I believe the LEO on the opposite side takes a rnd from friendly fire as he seems in serious distress and it didn't come from the paint gun:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=31&v=ITeGN-Sk8HI
You are correct the officer took a friendly fire hit to the upper left arm, also took a round to the back but his vest stopped that one.
titsonritz
07-28-19, 20:43
Lucky only one DOA there.
FromMyColdDeadHand
07-28-19, 22:11
I’d like to know more about it overall and what the relationship between the guy in the yellow shirt and the guy in the room. I don’t think the guy could see the cops till he exited. Not smart to walk out of a seedy hotel room with a paint ball gun, but not sure that is a fatal error.
Fing hell that went bad fast.
So many bad ideas compressed into such a small space of time it's incredible.
I’d like to know more about it overall and what the relationship between the guy in the yellow shirt and the guy in the room. I don’t think the guy could see the cops till he exited. Not smart to walk out of a seedy hotel room with a paint ball gun, but not sure that is a fatal error.
Willing to bet guy in yellow was complainant and probably something along the lines of "dude in the room keeps point guns at me and threatening me." I'd also wager some basic drug use on the part of Mr. Bad Idea man with the paintball gun.
thepatriot2705
07-29-19, 00:10
I’m curious if the police announced themselves. IM NOT SAYING THE OFFICERS WERENT JUSTIFIED. THEY WERE.
More or less curious if woman was just being accompanied by officers and she initiated the knock. If officers didn’t announce themselves, he might have just been trying to scare the woman. Dude might have had no idea. But boy did that go from 0-100 in a split second.
I'd be talking with my partner once I got my arm fixed and my vest replaced.
ramairthree
07-29-19, 01:40
As noted over a few decades ago in Texas,
Personnel assessment and selection trumps training and equipment.
FromMyColdDeadHand
07-29-19, 06:55
I'd be talking with my partner once I got my arm fixed and my vest replaced.
You got a problem with the Ronin ambush?
Travelingchild
07-29-19, 08:06
https://fox13now.com/2019/07/26/slc-police-to-release-body-cam-from-fatal-officer-involved-shooting-that-began-with-mental-health-call/
In yellow was case worker...
The_War_Wagon
07-29-19, 08:42
You got a problem with the Ronin ambush?
Who IS in charge of tactics in that dept.?! Sean Bean?!
I'm lowly, lowly, private citizen, and even I know better than to go both sides of a door on a narrow hotel balcony. Go high/low on the SAME side!
Always know your target and what is BEYOND IT much?
FromMyColdDeadHand
07-29-19, 12:54
I don't think any of them had an inkling that they were going to be in a gun fight more than a second before they drew their guns or opened the door. The door knocker even did the 'secret' Dunt-didy-dun-dunt.
Does the struck cop say "Nice shot" or "I'm shot".
I don't think any of them had an inkling that they were going to be in a gun fight more than a second before they drew their guns or opened the door. The door knocker even did the 'secret' Dunt-didy-dun-dunt.
Does the struck cop say "Nice shot" or "I'm shot".
"I've been shot guys. I've been hit."
MountainRaven
07-29-19, 13:20
I don't think any of them had an inkling that they were going to be in a gun fight more than a second before they drew their guns or opened the door. The door knocker even did the 'secret' Dunt-didy-dun-dunt.
Does the struck cop say "Nice shot" or "I'm shot".
Strictly speaking, none of them were in a gun fight even after the guns went back into their holsters.
You got a problem with the Ronin ambush?
Nothing is ever perfect and in these situations you react as you are trained.
A lot of trainers don't impart that you really do nothing to make it more difficult to make the guy hit you by backing straight away. As both officers did.
In the tight confines of the balcony the potential movement paths are limited, if both officers had stepped off-line toward the railing, probably no injury to the other officer.
Stop at 14 seconds on the video. If the shooting officer had stepped off-line, to the outside, his partner wouldn't have been the backstop, and he would have shielded the caseworker.
Even better if you drive in at an angle to the outside - not a natural response, needs to have a foundation laid.
As I said, split-second, trained response, if not exposed to drills along these lines, things like this happen.
The problem is how many officers get to attend classes that are limited in sizes and drill these responses for three or four days? We delivered foundational classroom instruction on angles and movement, and a snapshot drill addressing the proper response to our recruits, but simply weren't allowed the time to solidify the response. Additional structured training, which rarely happens, is needed to really put it in the officer's toolbox.
Nothing is ever perfect and in these situations you react as you are trained.
A lot of trainers don't impart that you really do nothing to make it more difficult to make the guy hit you by backing straight away. As both officers did.
In the tight confines of the balcony the potential movement paths are limited, if both officers had stepped off-line toward the railing, probably no injury to the other officer.
Stop at 14 seconds on the video. If the shooting officer had stepped off-line, to the outside, his partner wouldn't have been the backstop, and he would have shielded the caseworker.
Even better if you drive in at an angle to the outside - not a natural response, needs to have a foundation laid.
As I said, split-second, trained response, if not exposed to drills along these lines, things like this happen.
The problem is how many officers get to attend classes that are limited in sizes and drill these responses for three or four days? We delivered foundational classroom instruction on angles and movement, and a snapshot drill addressing the proper response to our recruits, but simply weren't allowed the time to solidify the response. Additional structured training, which rarely happens, is needed to really put it in the officer's toolbox.
Honestly, as imperfect as that was, it still could have been way worse.
Nobody knew what was on the other side of the door, now admittedly the instruction I received is probably dated, but one officer on each side of the door is pretty standard because usually you end up with a wrestling match of some kind and this way each officer can support the other if the guy comes out the door aggressive.
I know it happens, but barrel first "gun fight NOW" isn't the most commonly encountered thing even for law enforcement. The LEO running the body cam "saw gun" and did his best to eliminate the threat before the "threat" started racking up a body count. As you noted, there wasn't a lot of room on that second floor walk.
The LEO simply got clear and put rounds on target and it's a damn good thing his partner had a vest or it could have been really tragic. Obviously nobody had the time to ID the weapon as "just a paintball gun." About the only good thing that happened is body cam video and a lot of other officers will be able to learn from this example.
This is the first thing I thought of... betting they pick a different strategy next time...
I wonder how it would have gone if the officer that fired stood his ground and got a good site picture before firing? Whole speed vs. accuracy thing.
Understandably standing your ground and waiting to shoot are not a natural thing. I do know from competing though dialing your speed back a little can hugely improve accuracy.
I say this from my arm chair so who knows.
Hammer_Man
07-30-19, 16:49
Off topic, but SLC is a dive. Another example of out of state libs moving in and ruining everything.
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