View Full Version : Bigger Fish to Fry? Or We Are Toast?
Doc Safari
08-01-19, 17:07
A statement is often made in speculative gun ban threads as to whether the government entities tasked with enforcing an all-out possession ban would actually expend resources to "go after" the non-compliant, or if "they have bigger fish to fry."
As of right now, it does not appear there is any danger at the federal level of any such thing happening anytime soon, but several states are on the cusp of passing possession bans.
Realizing that regions and states to a certain extent have their own personality and propensity to be enthusiastic about enforcing such laws or not, what is your assessment where you live as to whether an all-out possession ban would result in jackbooted thugs coming to take your firearms or not?
Please let us know what state you are in and what you think.
And please--I know the temptation is to post boastful "Molon Labe" type statements, so we'll just say "got ya covered" on that.
I want this to be an informational thread on your states sitrep and not an invitation to posturing, M'kay? :) (Just askin' nicely).
Bottom line, there are less than 1 million sworn LEOs nationwide. This includes state, local, and fed. The overwhelming majority are not patrol types. Even if they were all lockstep "jackbooted thugs" (hint: they aren't) there simply are not enough of them for a door to door roundup. A total ban/confiscation is a long game proposition such as we are seeing now. Indoctrinate the youth against them, wait until there is little to no interest in self defense, 2A, individual liberty, etc. and have them turned in voluntarily. The door kicking dystopian fantasy is just that. Fantasy.
SeriousStudent
08-01-19, 17:27
Texas.
Nuff said.
Doc Safari
08-01-19, 17:28
I'll give you an example:
Here in New Mexico we have a dichotomy between the counties that have big cities in them, and the more rural counties. On the one hand I do not believe there are enough state police officers available to carry out such orders statewide, but in the larger areas some of the urban law enforcement agencies might be willing to participate. The rural counties have already pushed back against gun legislation in New Mexico, and several rural sheriff's departments and governments have declared their counties "Second Amendment Sanctuaries."
So here in New Mexico, my speculation is that if you live in a rural county there might not be enough enforcement available to "pick up" people's guns, and less enthusiasm for doing so.
In the larger cities like Albuquerque, TPTB might very well try to "make an example" out of non-compliant firearm owners in an attempt to intimidate other holdouts.
Add to that the fact that many, many LEO's and even some liberal politicians own AR15's and I think a possession ban would ultimately be an exercise in futility in New Mexico.
My Texas county is one of the most conservative in the U.S.. Since 1954---Yea, back when the whole rest of Texas was Yella Dog Democrat, they have never delivered less than 72% of their votes for the Republican nominee for President. The county sheriff is repeatedly on record as saying he will not enforce any federal gun ban, Period.
I have a guest house and am in the rental property business. I would do whatever I could to help fellow Patriots fleeing less friendly environs.....
SeriousStudent
08-01-19, 17:37
My Texas county is one of the most conservative in the U.S.. Since 1954---Yea, back when the whole rest of Texas was Yella Dog Democrat, they have never delivered less than 72% of their votes for the Republican nominee for President. The county sheriff is repeatedly on record as saying he will not enforce any federal gun ban, Period.
I have a guest house and am in the rental property business. I would do whatever I could to help fellow Patriots fleeing less friendly environs.....
I gotta feeling we do not live far from each other.
I don't see confiscation raids happening in Maine.
But WTF does it matter? If they've scared you into hiding your stuff and never daring to take it outside the confines of your home, much less actually shoot it....they pretty much did "confiscate" it, despite it technically still being in your possession.
Doc Safari
08-01-19, 17:40
I don't see confiscation raids happening in Maine.
But WTF does it matter? If they've scared you into hiding your stuff and never daring to take it outside the confines of your home, much less actually shoot it....they pretty much did "confiscate" it, despite it technically still being in your possession.
Because times change, politicians die or are voted out, the character of the country changes, etc. Look at the marijuana issue. It's gone from prison fodder to almost universally accepted.
Because times change, politicians die or are voted out, the character of the country changes, etc. Look at the marijuana issue. It's gone from prison fodder to almost universally accepted.
I think the notion that some sort of sweeping gun ban is going to be ushered into law.... and then years later, when "the character of the country changes" all those banned guns are suddenly going to be declared legal again is incredibly unlikely.
Unless there is some kind of literal constitutionalist coup d'etat in the US, during which the old political establishment on both sides of the aisle are swept out of power.....but that's so implausible at this point it's basically kooky-talk.
I got a feeling that it'd go about like the war on drugs. Scoop up a few people here and there, make a few high-profile busts, but otherwise what happens in your basement stays in your basement. Well, until your narc neighbor rats you to the Stasi.
Exactly.
A good way to fight these wrong headed ideas is to help others see the light by engaging in a positive way to promote the virtues of firearms ownership and constructive use.
Because times change, politicians die or are voted out, the character of the country changes, etc. Look at the marijuana issue. It's gone from prison fodder to almost universally accepted.
Texas.
Nuff said.
Oklahoma. Same same. 77 counties, 0 of which are blue or even purple. :D
Oklahoma. Same same. 77 counties, 0 of which are blue or even purple. :D
Arkansas is not going that way, no way. I know literally hundreds of LEO's here and many have actually told me no way, and they mean it. Class 3 yep, open carry, yup, permitless carry yup.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-01-19, 23:25
Gun confiscation is like skydiving with out a parachute- you can try it, but you don't expect to make a career out of it.
Like people have noted, there are already 'sanctuary' counties. Look at what 11 million illegals do to law enforcement- multiply that by 10 and add guns- and skill sets- and the force of 'right'. It has always been going to be illegalization- turn them in or we'll pick you off when you raise your head and get mouthy.
Will Bass Pro Shops become sanctuary sites like churches for illegals ;). People stuck living in the tent displays? Living on jerky and the fish in the 'pond'.
I honestly don't believe you can reliably predict the results.
The reason that I say this is because I've reflected on what it really means to be a United States citizen and the several Oaths that I've sworn to uphold the Constitution.
I have recognized, and hope it won't occur in my lifetime, that at some point it is entirely conceivable that the 2nd Amendment could be modified/deleted in the legitimate manner that the framers of the Constitution set forth.
This conflicts me, because, at heart, I don't think I'm a take my ball and go home kind of guy.
So if 2/3 of the Congress and 3/4 of the states, or if a Constitutional Convention called by 2/3 of the State Legislatures succeeds in getting 3/4 of the States to ratify the change, I'm kind of thinking that is the true will of the majority of Americans.
At that point, I would recognize that the majority of Americans don't feel as I do about the Constitutional Right to Bear Arms, and they have won.
My decision wouldn't be whether to give up my firearms, rather it would be, is America still where I want to live.
Now, if we are simply talking Assault Weapon Ban, with confiscation, I don't think you will see very many door-to-door searches taking place.
They would have to figure out who has what - something that will take a while thanks to the way the Congress made sure that it would be hard for 4473's to be used to create a national firearms registry.
Even then, you would have to either suspend or modify the 4th Amendment in order to have door-to-door searches without warrants.
I think the likelihood of a super majority of LE agencies taking part in such foolishness is slight. Especially after the first few agencies attempting such foolishness suffer losses, and they will.
turnburglar
08-02-19, 02:33
I just left California, where my cousin had all his guns confiscated after an altercation with his ex girl friend. He got most of them back except an AR pistol because he didnt 'properly' fill out the form for registering it. Im pretty sure he did fill out the form the right way.
The moral of the story is that they didnt come looking for him. The found him for other reasons and then just added the gun laws ontop of it all. Not saying he is facing criminal charges, but not getting an AR pistol back is kinda a loss.
They won't come looking for your guns. They will make the penalty for possession so high that only those with nothing to lose will take the chance.
I got a feeling that it'd go about like the war on drugs. Scoop up a few people here and there, make a few high-profile busts, but otherwise what happens in your basement stays in your basement. Well, until your narc neighbor rats you to the Stasi.Why would your neighbor know?
So if 2/3 of the Congress and 3/4 of the states, or if a Constitutional Convention called by 2/3 of the State Legislatures succeeds in getting 3/4 of the States to ratify the change, I'm kind of thinking that is the true will of the majority of Americans.
At that point, I would recognize that the majority of Americans don't feel as I do about the Constitutional Right to Bear Arms, and they have won.
My decision wouldn't be whether to give up my firearms, rather it would be, is America still where I want to live.
This I agree with. It would no longer be "America" in my mind and I'd be looking to exfil to more accommodating climes. I'm not gonna fight the overwhelming majority of Americans unless they're actively harming powerless people. Which comes back to:
They won't come looking for your guns. They will make the penalty for possession so high that only those with nothing to lose will take the chance.
There is a substantial body of the populace who are in or could quickly be in that bucket. Aged out curmudgeons who just don't give a damn are one element. Disenfranchised people who've lost hope of accessing the American Dream are another. Not everyone wiling to fight is crazy. Some just don't see a future upside to live for. :(
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-02-19, 12:26
I have recognized, and hope it won't occur in my lifetime, that at some point it is entirely conceivable that the 2nd Amendment could be modified/deleted in the legitimate manner that the framers of the Constitution set forth.
This conflicts me, because, at heart, I don't think I'm a take my ball and go home kind of guy.
So if 2/3 of the Congress and 3/4 of the states, or if a Constitutional Convention called by 2/3 of the State Legislatures succeeds in getting 3/4 of the States to ratify the change, I'm kind of thinking that is the true will of the majority of Americans.
The Constitution doesn’t give us rights. The Constitution makes it clear that we have a right, paper or not. You can’t vote away my rights, Hell you can’t take away my right. You can suppress my right, but it is everlasting.
And let’s be straight about it. Not only is the 2A not about hunting, it isn’t about guns- just like the 1A isn’t about printing ink. They are about the right to think what you want (1A) and the ability to F off if they don’t like it(2A). Frankly, the first with out the second is kind of useless. If you really look at it, we have the 1A and the rest of the BOR is all about ‘no seriously, we aren’t kidding- stop screwing with us’.
You lose the 2A, and we already see the weakening of the rest of the BOR, it is pretty clear that the rights in the 1A are under attack. Pronouns, conservatives being marginalized and shut out of the public square- you think that is going to get better.
I’m not saying there is some trigger point, we can already see resistance in Sanctuary counties and the lack of following of current gun laws. We have Heller and McDonald as a line to build on. We just need to get the right cases in front of the right judges for the right decisions.
Texas.
Nuff said.
This.......
They won't come looking for your guns. They will make the penalty for possession so high that only those with nothing to lose will take the chance.
Like drugs?...... :rolleyes:
If the 2nd Amendment goes away, the Bill of Rights goes away, I'm still not going anywhere. I'll just start interacting with the rest of society less. I'm in the perfect place to become one of those sovereign citizen types, and my activity won't create a problem for others because there's hardly anyone out in this rural area anyway. I've got just a little over 39 square miles of sovereignty.
Doc Safari
08-02-19, 13:09
I think people will flaunt the law just because they don't like losing their lawfully purchased property.
Unless a hundred people in their town are perp-walked in front of the cameras with their AR's, people will just keep quiet and hold onto their stuff.
Doc Safari
08-02-19, 13:09
If the 2nd Amendment goes away, the Bill of Rights goes away, I'm still not going anywhere. I'll just start interacting with the rest of society less. I'm in the perfect place to become one of those sovereign citizen types, and my activity won't create a problem for others because there's hardly anyone out in this rural area anyway. I've got just a little over 39 square miles of sovereignty.
You and I could start our own country.....
...Just sayin'.
You and I could start our own country.....
...Just sayin'.
It'll be a small country with my 25,000 acres. I'm a small operator out here in this part of the State. The ranch that borders my place on the south and southeast side is 292,000 acres (456 square miles) and is called Bell Ranch. They run over 3000 head. There's even a Bell Mountain the place is named for. After the last owner died, that place is pretty much of an absentee owner operation from out of State.
They actually run their cattle on some of my land because I have access to water they require, so every Fall they haul some extra livestock to Amarillo and pay me from the proceeds. It's a good arrangement.
There are other ways besides force to get people to comply.
There are other ways besides force to get people to comply.
Even Newton applies to every possible social and political interaction. The Left can push all they want, there will be some kind of response:
"For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction".
And let’s be straight about it. Not only is the 2A not about hunting, it isn’t about guns- just like the 1A isn’t about printing ink. They are about the right to think what you want (1A) and the ability to F off if they don’t like it(2A). Frankly, the first with out the second is kind of useless. If you really look at it, we have the 1A and the rest of the BOR is all about ‘no seriously, we aren’t kidding- stop screwing with us’.
Have you ever read this: The Hidden History of the Second Amendment https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1465114
Or this follow-on: http://www.carltbogus.com/edmund-a-blog/72-the-hidden-history-of-the-second-amendment-redux
Professor Bogus argues that there is strong reason to believe that, in significant part, James Madison drafted the Second Amendment to assure his constituents in Virginia, and the South generally, that Congress could not use its newly-acquired powers to indirectly undermine the slave system by disarming the militia, on which the South relied for slave control. His argument is based on a multiplicity of the historical evidence, including debates between James Madison and George Mason and Patrick Henry at the Constitutional Ratifying Convention in Richmond, Virginia in June 1788; the record from the First Congress; and the antecedent of the American right to bear arms provision in the English Declaration of Rights of 1688.
or this: James Madison and the Making of America http://kevingutzman.com/books/Madison.html
Personally, this is what I believe happened.
This is true: The Constitution makes it clear that we have a right, paper or not. You can’t vote away my rights, Hell you can’t take away my right. You can suppress my right, but THE RIGHT ITSELF is everlasting (my change)
The way I see it, I also have a right to run around buck naked, and fornicate in my garden. By living in society I agree to, as you put it, the suppression of some rights, for the common peace and good.
I was born here, once I reache the age at which I could make a cogent decision, I decided to stay. I could have left in search of more freedom, but I chose not to. In essence you did the same. By doing so we acquiesce to the Societal Contract. I use acquiesce because I sometimes push the envelop of that contract, but generally I stay within it's bounds.
That is the reality of living in society - give and take - I've never smoked, I think it ranks right up there with ingesting meth as the stupidest fvcking thing a person can do to themselves, yet for years I shared work spaces, restaurants, patrol spaces, living quarters, with those who did, because smoking was socially accepted. And, when smoking became socially unacceptable, I expected smokers to do the same, I was/am zealous in that regard.
Cliff's Note Version: Second was about protecting from tyranny of government, just not in as noble a manner as most see it, despite that words have meaning, and it is there. If you want to live in a society there is a need to suppress some of your inalienable rights. If suppressing those rights becomes too much to bear, and your efforts to rectify the matter within socially acceptable norms have failed, you need to 1) STFU or, 2) find another society.
ERGO - if a legitimate change to the 2nd is made, it is decision time for me as to whether I comply with the 'new' Constitutional Amendment or pop smoke. Unlike some folks, I don't think it is a pick and choose deal.
Doc Safari
08-02-19, 16:46
Good God, man. That opens a can of worms we don't want open. Whether it's true or not if the left can even hint of claiming that the Second Amendment was put in there to keep the slaves from revolting we had all better get ready to surrender everything.
My biggest worry is when you have an ass ton of cans and SBR’s to put them on, your going to be top of the list. Given they actually think of it. Can’t say, sold em, don’t have them, your just fckd.
That worries me. Arizona is pretty gun friendly but things change.
PB
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-02-19, 17:31
The problem is the speed at which the left is moving towards a Robespierrian social breakdown. The model that people on both sides thought was the 'path' was registration followed by, by outlaw of manufacturing with grandfathering and then repeal of the grandfathering with piecemeal/frog-cooking titration of gun ownership. All that was stymied by the lack of registration which lead to the back door registration through UBCs. We are getting more sub/urban, so gun ownership is waning as a percent anyways. The left was willing to take 50 years to get it done. By the end those left are marginalized.
It looks like the left has abandoned that model and now wants to skip to the end. Maybe because of their myopia (they were blindsided by Trump winning), they don't realize what they are actually doing, and frankly don't care who they are doing it to. That the number of kids killed in school shootings over the past 20 years would be eclipsed in hours if they went door-to-door getting guns is lost to them, because in Gun Grabbing Nazi Land, they are safely out in the staff car.
Our only hope is that they focus on Global Warming and lose interest in guns. It would also behoove us to do two things. Come up with scary but useless gun accessories for them to ban. And they focus on silly things like smart guns. Keep them off the scent of real stuff until we get some SCOTUS rulings in our favor to blunt them.
I honestly don't believe you can reliably predict the results.
The reason that I say this is because I've reflected on what it really means to be a United States citizen and the several Oaths that I've sworn to uphold the Constitution.
I have recognized, and hope it won't occur in my lifetime, that at some point it is entirely conceivable that the 2nd Amendment could be modified/deleted in the legitimate manner that the framers of the Constitution set forth.
This conflicts me, because, at heart, I don't think I'm a take my ball and go home kind of guy.
So if 2/3 of the Congress and 3/4 of the states, or if a Constitutional Convention called by 2/3 of the State Legislatures succeeds in getting 3/4 of the States to ratify the change, I'm kind of thinking that is the true will of the majority of Americans.
At that point, I would recognize that the majority of Americans don't feel as I do about the Constitutional Right to Bear Arms, and they have won.
My decision wouldn't be whether to give up my firearms, rather it would be, is America still where I want to live.
Now, if we are simply talking Assault Weapon Ban, with confiscation, I don't think you will see very many door-to-door searches taking place.
They would have to figure out who has what - something that will take a while thanks to the way the Congress made sure that it would be hard for 4473's to be used to create a national firearms registry.
Even then, you would have to either suspend or modify the 4th Amendment in order to have door-to-door searches without warrants.
I think the likelihood of a super majority of LE agencies taking part in such foolishness is slight. Especially after the first few agencies attempting such foolishness suffer losses, and they will.
Three points:
1) As I have grown older I have really, really begun to not give a shit what my "fellow Americans" think or feel. Quite frankly I have become much more cynical, to the point of being convinced that only geographical boundaries and legal definitions make roughly half this nation my "fellow countrymen". There is a divide, likely never seen before here in the last 155 years. A significant portion of this country sees things differently than I do, the key difference being that my views I do not seek to impose on them; their views, on the other hand, need forced mass participation to "succeed". Guns? I don't like them. Not enough that I don't like them and won't own one, but YOU can't either. I honestly have started to despise many of my "fellow countryman" and see them as dangerous as any foreign enemy we could face. The days of kumbaya have long since passed folks. We will always eye each other suspiciously and critically.
2) I was born here and I will die here. I'm not going anywhere because of a large segment of shit-headed idiots in this country, majority or not.
3) Hindsight part: There was a time when the majority of people in Germany supported Hitler. Did that majority make it "right"? The SCOTUS at one time ruled in favor of slavery; although "legal", did that make it "right"? Quite frankly the Constitution was never intended to be, and is not currently, a popularity contest. A "majority" these days, a "mandate" (God I hate that word) if you will, means less and less to me.
My biggest worry is when you have an ass ton of cans and SBR’s to put them on, your going to be top of the list. Given they actually think of it. Can’t say, sold em, don’t have them, your just fckd.
That worries me. Arizona is pretty gun friendly but things change.
PB
Here in rural New Mexico, lots of ranchers hunt, and I know plenty who use cans. For me, I don't own a can because my hearing is shot from being around the high pitched whine of rotor craft turbines anyway. SBR's I do have, so I guess I could be on "the list".
Three points:
1) As I have grown older I have really, really begun to not give a shit what my "fellow Americans" think or feel. Quite frankly I have become much more cynical, to the point of being convinced that only geographical boundaries and legal definitions make roughly half this nation my "fellow countrymen". There is a divide, likely never seen before here in the last 155 years. A significant portion of this country sees things differently than I do, the key difference being that my views I do not seek to impose on them; their views, on the other hand, need forced mass participation to "succeed". Guns? I don't like them. Not enough that I don't like them and won't own one, but YOU can't either. I honestly have started to despise many of my "fellow countryman" and see them as dangerous as any foreign enemy we could face. The days of kumbaya have long since passed folks. We will always eye each other suspiciously and critically.
2) I was born here and I will die here. I'm not going anywhere because of a large segment of shit-headed idiots in this country, majority or not.
3) Hindsight part: There was a time when the majority of people in Germany supported Hitler. Did that majority make it "right"? The SCOTUS at one time ruled in favor of slavery; although "legal", did that make it "right"? Quite frankly the Constitution was never intended to be, and is not currently, a popularity contest. A "majority" these days, a "mandate" (God I hate that word) if you will, means less and less to me.
Kind of echoes my approach in life to things. I'm not moving to Thailand or evacuating the homeland. I would rather fight and die on my turf than leave, but I don't plan on dying for any of it. I will avoid and evade the totalitarians and their agenda as a defensive move, but change tactics when the need or opportunity presents itself. It will be just like the years of Prohibition. Enough said.
Here in rural New Mexico, lots of ranchers hunt, and I know plenty who use cans. For me, I don't own a can because my hearing is shot from being around the high pitched whine of rotor craft turbines anyway. SBR's I do have, so I guess I could be on "the list".
Kind of echoes my approach in life to things. I'm not moving to Thailand or evacuating the homeland. I would rather fight and die on my turf than leave, but I don't plan on dying for any of it. I will avoid and evade the totalitarians and their agenda as a defensive move, but change tactics when the need or opportunity presents itself. It will be just like the years of Prohibition. Enough said.
Nails it! I'm not stupid, but I am defiant. The "Molon Labe" type who has a rifle by every window and screams "Come and get 'em!" is not the sharpest tool in the shed, but that end of the gene pool would be emptied quickly. Those left, who actually think, well, that's another story altogether! ;)
Evel Baldgui
08-02-19, 20:55
There was a quote in the ‘gulag archipelago’ by Solzhenitsyn, ‘how many of those agents would have gone out at night not sure if they were going to return’. The notion of door to door arms confiscation is curious. Perhaps a handful of local rural LEO will call in sick on those days, but the majority still need the paycheck for rent, food, kids tuition, etc. If, the vast amount of LE won’t participate, the national guard will. Though I’m willing to wager that almost all LE in locales such as Seattle, Portland, NYC, Boston, Atlanta, Chicago, etc would most joyfully perform no knock warrants on the citizenry. However, a more subtle way of obtaining compliance would be via financial difficulties. Your checking and savings accounts would be frozen, IRS would seize or freeze assets of those individuals who fail to comply with mandatory surrender of their firearms. How would .gov know ? Hmmm, 4473’s, ever buy any ammo or firearm related items online? Ever use a credit card to purchase any firearm/ firearm related item ? That is a more likely scenario than the jack booted thug no knock warrant. But then again, no one really knows. Interesting times indeed.
There was a quote in the ‘gulag archipelago’ by Solzhenitsyn, ‘how many of those agents would have gone out at night not sure if they were going to return’. The notion of door to door arms confiscation is curious. Perhaps a handful of local rural LEO will call in sick on those days, but the majority still need the paycheck for rent, food, kids tuition, etc. If, the vast amount of LE won’t participate, the national guard will. Though I’m willing to wager that almost all LE in locales such as Seattle, Portland, NYC, Boston, Atlanta, Chicago, etc would most joyfully perform no knock warrants on the citizenry. However, a more subtle way of obtaining compliance would be via financial difficulties. Your checking and savings accounts would be frozen, IRS would seize or freeze assets of those individuals who fail to comply with mandatory surrender of their firearms. How would .gov know ? Hmmm, 4473’s, ever buy any ammo or firearm related items online? Ever use a credit card to purchase any firearm/ firearm related item ? That is a more likely scenario than the jack booted thug no knock warrant. But then again, no one really knows. Interesting times indeed.
I think some of your suppositions are wrong. I even think many large city cops would not participate. The Guard is the community and I know many and I don't see them complying as they live in the communities they would be violating. It's the rage, even on boards like these to assume the LEO's as a whole look forward to violating citizens rights and this is just wrong. I came into a patrol briefing and this discussion was taking place and as I entered I joined the conversation and the entire troop was firm about their feelings on this topic. Many of us were looking for a job when we found our current one.
It would have to be the feds and there's not enough and they don't do much without local assistance in most areas. Around here many of them are not the types to do this anyway. We're not there. Online ammo, who cares it's perishable anyway. 4473's? You could wall paper a room with all of them I've filled out.
I can tell you as a multi decade cop that I won't register anything, turn in anything, and would fire anyone who thought of particiating in travesty such as this. I'm not looking to die soon or become a felon but there's some thing that are just not negotiable.
I think some of your suppositions are wrong. I even think many large city cops would not participate. The Guard is the community and I know many and I don't see them complying as they live in the communities they would be violating. It's the rage, even on boards like these to assume the LEO's as a whole look forward to violating citizens rights and this is just wrong. I came into a patrol briefing and this discussion was taking place and as I entered I joined the conversation and the entire troop was firm about their feelings on this topic. Many of us were looking for a job when we found our current one.
It would have to be the feds and there's not enough and they don't do much without local assistance in most areas. Around here many of them are not the types to do this anyway. We're not there. Online ammo, who cares it's perishable anyway. 4473's? You could wall paper a room with all of them I've filled out.
I can tell you as a multi decade cop that I won't register anything, turn in anything, and would fire anyone who thought of particiating in travesty such as this. I'm not looking to die soon or become a felon but there's some thing that are just not negotiable.
Hope there are lots out there with your attitude and beliefs. Kudos!
Evel Baldgui
08-02-19, 22:21
Seb5,
Sir, you may be the exception, i.e., the one who calls out sick on the day warrants are issued, also noticed you’re in Arkansas, rural/suburban area perhaps? Your municipality/state may not be as radical as NYC or Boston. I know LEO’s on the more liberal/left wing east coast would like nothing more than to (forcibly) disarm the residents. I travel to both extensively, converse with a variety of officers, most are ardently anti 2A, vehemently oppose citizens owning guns, and would gladly participate in disarming their neighbors. Perhaps my suppositions are not applicable to your locale, may not apply to, say, Montana, Wyoming, or rural Missouri for example, they are likely to applicable to NY NJ CA CT VT MD GA WA and probably the major cities in Texas such as Houston, Dallas, Austin, El Paso, and San Antonio.
Seb5,
Sir, you may be the exception, i.e., the one who calls out sick on the day warrants are issued, also noticed you’re in Arkansas, rural/suburban area perhaps? Your municipality/state may not be as radical as NYC or Boston. I know LEO’s on the more liberal/left wing east coast would like nothing more than to (forcibly) disarm the residents. I travel to both extensively, converse with a variety of officers, most are ardently anti 2A, vehemently oppose citizens owning guns, and would gladly participate in disarming their neighbors. Perhaps my suppositions are not applicable to your locale, may not apply to, say, Montana, Wyoming, or rural Missouri for example, they are likely to applicable to NY NJ CA CT VT MD GA WA and probably the major cities in Texas such as Houston, Dallas, Austin, El Paso, and San Antonio.
I hope you're wrong and also pray we don't have to find out. Austin, who knows , most of TX we just disagree. I'm more of a half glass full type. As far as calling in sick, not me, as I would want to be there to make sure it didn't happen. I live in a somewhat rural county with a business area of about 200,000 in a border city and we are totally red. I think it's interesting that there are two retired NYC officers that moved to start new careers in law enforcement here and both are pro 2A. In a few states you mentioned I think you could be more right than wrong.
Averageman
08-03-19, 09:25
I used to hope that people moving to Texas were coming here because we're one of the last free red states. I spoke to a real estate agent (uber liberal btw) and it would appear it has little to do with freedom and a lot to do with greed.
In Austin and in many of the surrounding area's they'rte trying to make Texas as Blue and LA like as possible.
Sad but true.
I used to hope that people moving to Texas were coming here because we're one of the last free red states. I spoke to a real estate agent (uber liberal btw) and it would appear it has little to do with freedom and a lot to do with greed.
In Austin and in many of the surrounding area's they'rte trying to make Texas as Blue and LA like as possible.
Sad but true.
For the citizen still working for someone else, making a living, supporting a family, you have to move to where the job is, and to a certain extent where all the comforts and conveniences of life are found.
If you are self employed or retired, and not needing a lot of the conveniences of society all the time, there are plenty of places you can find freedom in the US. It's called moving to some place in the middle of nowhere where no one else wants to live, or easy for them to live. Freedom is found where the population is limited.
This place where I am has been occupied by the family continuous since the 1750's. This is extremely rural. My power lines run from two-lane blacktop 16 miles away. If the lines go down, I am Off the Grid. That has happened for up to two weeks at a time, mostly in the Winter. Water is provided by three wells with electric pumps and solar backup. If those go down, I have an assortment of windmill water wells for the cattle which we could utilize.
A decade ago, a Californian moved out here about ten miles to the east and bought a 120 acre parcel, ran power from the highway and built a house. During the final phase of construction, he decided to have the local well digging pro provide a well. Got down to 550 feet and hit a small pocket of bad water which couldn't produce more than a gallon every 5 minutes, but crapped out. Went down to a thousand feet and couldn't get any water. This Golden State Wonder spent over $18,000 in well digging and had no water, in addition to $300,000 for a partially unfinished house. He abandoned the project and the house still sits unoccupied. I hear he moved to Santa Fe.
The rule is you can find freedom in the rural west, but make really good plans from lots of research.
Doc Safari
08-03-19, 10:20
Sun Tsu is required reading for what is to come.
Sun Tsu is required reading for what is to come.
I read 3 things every year, Torah, Sun Tzu and the book of five rings
Diamondback
08-03-19, 22:41
For the citizen still working for someone else, making a living, supporting a family, you have to move to where the job is, and to a certain extent where all the comforts and conveniences of life are found.
If you are self employed or retired, and not needing a lot of the conveniences of society all the time, there are plenty of places you can find freedom in the US. It's called moving to some place in the middle of nowhere where no one else wants to live, or easy for them to live. Freedom is found where the population is limited.
This place where I am has been occupied by the family continuous since the 1750's. This is extremely rural. My power lines run from two-lane blacktop 16 miles away. If the lines go down, I am Off the Grid. That has happened for up to two weeks at a time, mostly in the Winter. Water is provided by three wells with electric pumps and solar backup. If those go down, I have an assortment of windmill water wells for the cattle which we could utilize.
A decade ago, a Californian moved out here about ten miles to the east and bought a 120 acre parcel, ran power from the highway and built a house. During the final phase of construction, he decided to have the local well digging pro provide a well. Got down to 550 feet and hit a small pocket of bad water which couldn't produce more than a gallon every 5 minutes, but crapped out. Went down to a thousand feet and couldn't get any water. This Golden State Wonder spent over $18,000 in well digging and had no water, in addition to $300,000 for a partially unfinished house. He abandoned the project and the house still sits unoccupied. I hear he moved to Santa Fe.
The rule is you can find freedom in the rural west, but make really good plans from lots of research.
If there's water to be had under that property, sounds like an opportunity for a hardy, freedom-loving sort.
A decade ago, a Californian moved out here about ten miles to the east and bought a 120 acre parcel, ran power from the highway and built a house. During the final phase of construction, he decided to have the local well digging pro provide a well. Got down to 550 feet and hit a small pocket of bad water which couldn't produce more than a gallon every 5 minutes, but crapped out. Went down to a thousand feet and couldn't get any water. This Golden State Wonder spent over $18,000 in well digging and had no water, in addition to $300,000 for a partially unfinished house. He abandoned the project and the house still sits unoccupied. I hear he moved to Santa Fe.
I would have had someone put up a cistern and bought a water buffalo or surplus fire truck.
'Come on ma, were loading up to go to the big city and get water!'
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