View Full Version : Trump giving up 2A rights, for Immigration bill?
WickedWillis
08-05-19, 16:41
So the last two days have clearly been terrible. Combined in El Paso, Texas, and Dayton, Ohio we have at least 31 people dead due to deranged psychopaths. Politicians on both sides are wasting zero time bringing up "Red Flag" gun laws, and other ways to constrict the 2nd.
Trump is now willing to add in more thorough background checks (I cannot confirm if he means Red flag laws, or other litigation) to his Immigration Reform Legislation. http://https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/05/trump-suggests-tying-background-checks-to-immigration-bill-after-mass-shootings.html
There is also chatter in the industry that Gov is working on a backdoor law to ban pistol braces as well right now, like they did with bump stocks earlier. Allegedly the shooter in Dayton had an AR Pistol (I hate being right, but I called this shit on a thread a few weeks back). I said it with bump stocks, and I will say it again with braces, all of this is a slippery slope. We even have some of the representatives we thought were 100% pro 2A mentioning Red Flag laws as well as expanded background checks, I'm looking at you Dan Crenshaw (Insert Obi-Wan screaming "YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE!")
http://https://twitter.com/RepDanCrenshaw/status/1158059710609788929
Why has there not been a thread on here sooner regarding all of this?
I am over the 4D chess meme but part of me thinks this will just poisonpill immigration reform.
And IIRC braces are "safe" because their whole concept was for amputees and disabled to be able to shoot an AR pistol.
Doc Safari
08-05-19, 16:51
I am over the 4D chess meme but part of me thinks this will just poisonpill immigration reform.
And IIRC braces are "safe" because their whole concept was for amputees and disabled to be able to shoot an AR pistol.
I hear it makes it easier for unicorns to shoot rainbows out of their ass, too.
The libs and MSM are already on this:
https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/crime/crime-and-courts/2019/08/05/dayton-shooter-used-gun-may-have-exploited-atf-loophole/1920506001/
Even though it looked like a rifle, the gun used to kill nine people and wound at least 14 more was likely classified as a pistol, skirting around laws restricting short-barreled rifles.
Will the device on Connor Betts' weapon, called a "pistol brace," become the next bump stock in nation's gun control debate?
On Monday, Dayton Police Chief Richard Biehl said Betts' gun was "modified in essence to function like a rifle" and "to avoid any legal prohibitions." He did not specifically cite a pistol brace, but photos of the weapon released by police show one.
The federal restrictions on short-barreled rifles were enacted to stop people from making rifles, guns fired from the shoulder, more concealable. Rifles typically can fire more powerful cartridges than pistols and shoulder stocks allow the rifles to be fired more accurately.
It is illegal to own a rifle with a barrel shorter than 16 inches without paying $200 for a National Firearms Act tax stamp and completing all the related paperwork and background checks. The process is similar to legally owning a fully-automatic rifle.
It is unclear if Betts' went through this process, but the firearm he used did have a barrel shorter than 16 inches.
AR-15 style firearms can be rifles or pistols. A pistol can have a short barrel, but no shoulder stock. A rifle can have a shoulder stock, but the barrel must be 16 inches or longer.
Yeah, ****boy L'Orange will sign any gun control legislation that get to him and Frenchie La Douche of the NRA will kiss his balls the entire time.
Also Pirate Dan can eat a dick.
WickedWillis
08-05-19, 17:23
I am over the 4D chess meme but part of me thinks this will just poisonpill immigration reform.
And IIRC braces are "safe" because their whole concept was for amputees and disabled to be able to shoot an AR pistol.
Me too man. We saw several that were supposed to be on "Our Side" turn in favor of popular opinion, and new restrictions. No thanks.
Coal Dragger
08-05-19, 17:27
Well if the deal is some gun control laws on background checks or whatever, but Dems have to agree to actual immigration changes and border security this is DOA. Total non-starter.
It's a way for Lord Cheeto to claim he tried and blame Democrats for blocking it because they care more about illegals than they care about safety or whatever. He will bandy it about and use it to beat his opponents about the head and neck with going into an election.
Well if the deal is some gun control laws on background checks or whatever, but Dems have to agree to actual immigration changes and border security this is DOA. Total non-starter.
It's a way for Lord Cheeto to claim he tried and blame Democrats for blocking it because they care more about illegals than they care about safety or whatever. He will bandy it about and use it to beat his opponents about the head and neck with going into an election.
I hope people are waking up and smelling the coffee now. The president "get the guns first, worry about due process later", has never been a 2 A supporter. Everything is transactional. If it gets him what he wants, he will sell all of us down the river. Mr. Obama tried to ban bump stocks and concluded that he didn't have the legal authority to do it. Trump... no problem...
It is time for the GOP to realize that they sold their soul for 2 Supreme court picks. We are going to be left picking up the mess and it is going to be a sunday morning frat house basement kind of mess...
The one thing we have on our side is that Dems won’t deal on immigration. The other is that we have 40 or so days before Congress is back from vacation. People have the attention span of gold fish today.
We shall see.
I hope people are waking up and smelling the coffee now. The president "get the guns first, worry about due process later", has never been a 2 A supporter. Everything is transactional. If it gets him what he wants, he will sell all of us down the river. Mr. Obama tried to ban bump stocks and concluded that he didn't have the legal authority to do it. Trump... no problem...
It is time for the GOP to realize that they sold their soul for 2 Supreme court picks. We are going to be left picking up the mess and it is going to be a sunday morning frat house basement kind of mess...
Trump isn't stupid. He may not be "pro-gun" per se, but he knows if something as asinine as a new AWB comes along he better not sign it or he goes back to NY in January of 2021. After that? All bets are off.....
The other is that we have 40 or so days before Congress is back from vacation. People have the attention span of gold fish today.
This is it. I'm not the slightest bit concerned. Maybe Cardi B will do something dumb, and the retard masses will forget what they were mad about.
Is this the straw that breaks the camels back? I don’t know… But surely you all know that there will be more mass shootings. Gun control of some kind is just a matter of time. We better hope that it’s just something as simple as expanding background checks.
MountainRaven
08-05-19, 18:47
Trump isn't stupid. He may not be "pro-gun" per se, but he knows if something as asinine as a new AWB comes along he better not sign it or he goes back to NY in January of 2021. After that? All bets are off.....
Why wouldn't he sign it?
He knows and I know and I think you know that there are people who will vote for him (probably most of the people who will vote for him) no matter what because he's not Bernie/O'Rourke/Warren/whoever. It's not like gun owners alone got him into office. Hell, there are people on this very forum who will tell you that if you don't vote for him, you're voting for whoever the Democrats run with. They'll tell you that, no matter what, we're better off with Trump than with whoever the Democrats run with.
Dr. Bullseye
08-05-19, 18:56
Help refresh my memory. Did we ban rifles after the battle of Bull Run? Then why should we now?
I have one gun, an AR15 for self defense. Why can't these Leftists get it in their head--I don't care how many people are shot each weekend, we have an an absolute right to bear arms. I want my AR a whole hellava lot more than I want all the Leftists in this country no matter how they whine or how much their media whines. If they don't like our founding documents in America or feel unsafe in America, then it is up to them to change----"change" meaning move to another country where they will be happy with the founding documents and feel safer.
MountainRaven
08-05-19, 19:02
Help refresh my memory. Did we ban rifles after the battle of Bull Run? Then why should we now?
We disarmed the aboriginal Americans.
When they resisted, we slaughtered them.
And then we gave the Medal of Honor to those who slaughtered unarmed old men, women, and children alongside the men who refused to surrender their arms.
But, hey, they weren't American citizens, so they didn't get to enjoy the protections of the Constitution anyway.
sidewaysil80
08-05-19, 19:08
The thing I don’t understand is the blaming of mental health yet condemning red flag laws. No matter how you look at it, involuntary treatment/institutionalizing of someone dangerous is no more an infringement on their rights than an involuntary firearm confiscation. ANY legal mechanism or testimony in our judicial system can be abused, but so long if thorough checks and balances are in place to catch them, I don’t know if I object. Change my mind, what OTHER things can be done to address the societal shift and mental illness? I’m not trolling or being an ass, I’m genuinely curious.
The thing I don’t understand is the blaming of mental health yet condemning red flag laws. No matter how you look at it, involuntary treatment/institutionalizing of someone dangerous is no more an infringement on their rights than an involuntary firearm confiscation. ANY legal mechanism or testimony in our judicial system can be abused, but so long if thorough checks and balances are in place to catch them, I don’t know if I object. While there may be case by case or select instances of Emergency Protective Orders being abused, by and large they are implemented as designed and work.
Red flag laws are sold as a mental health law. They aren’t. That’s why there’s a protest. Without due process, it is unjust. It is, by definition, abusive.
sidewaysil80
08-05-19, 19:17
Red flag laws are sold as a mental health law. They aren’t. That’s why there’s a protest. Without due process, it is unjust. It is, by definition, abusive.
Then isn’t an Emergency Protective Order or Emergency Custody Order equally unjust/unconstitutional? By that logic ANY arrest/use of force is unjust because the charges/facts of the case are presented to the magistrate after taken into custody. In other words, peoples 4th amendment rights are being infringed since most of the time you are arrested first and then taken to judge/magistrate for “due process”.
Then isn’t an Emergency Protective Order or Emergency Custody Order equally unjust/unconstitutional? By that logic ANY arrest/use of force is unjust because the charges/facts of the case are presented to the magistrate after taken into custody.
Yep. We must find a just way to help people who are dangerous to society. Or it’s not the govt job to solve. But don’t justify one injustice because we’ve accepted another one.
sidewaysil80
08-05-19, 19:21
Yep. We must find a just way to help people who are dangerous to society. Or it’s not the govt job to solve. But don’t justify one injustice because we’ve accepted another one.
So you are saying no arrests or taking into custody UNLESS a judge/magistrate signs warrant first? Furthermore, any arrest that doesn’t stem from an active warrant is an injustice?
Why wouldn't he sign it?
He knows and I know and I think you know that there are people who will vote for him (probably most of the people who will vote for him) no matter what because he's not Bernie/O'Rourke/Warren/whoever. It's not like gun owners alone got him into office. Hell, there are people on this very forum who will tell you that if you don't vote for him, you're voting for whoever the Democrats run with. They'll tell you that, no matter what, we're better off with Trump than with whoever the Democrats run with.
That might be true.....unless you're simply tired of the shit show and ready to burn it down vs the death by a thousand cuts.....
Outlander Systems
08-05-19, 19:34
Trust the plan, g-guys. WWG1WGA
This is it. I'm not the slightest bit concerned. Maybe Cardi B will do something dumb, and the retard masses will forget what they were mad about.
Don't underestimate the deep state's ability to get another Manchurian candidate to commit another mass murder. Ok, I am taking my tinfoil hat off and putting it back in the closet.
Why wouldn't he sign it?
He knows and I know and I think you know that there are people who will vote for him (probably most of the people who will vote for him) no matter what because he's not Bernie/O'Rourke/Warren/whoever. It's not like gun owners alone got him into office. Hell, there are people on this very forum who will tell you that if you don't vote for him, you're voting for whoever the Democrats run with. They'll tell you that, no matter what, we're better off with Trump than with whoever the Democrats run with.
Trump's margin was razor-thin in 2016. He can't afford the loss of votes signing an AWB would bring. Assuming of course he's interested at remaining POTUS that is.
When W said he'd sign a resurrected AWB if it was put on his desk back in his first term I swore (and stated as much on TOS, catching much flak for it) that I'd not vote for him in 2004 if he did so. I will do the same with Trump.
So you are saying no arrests or taking into custody UNLESS a judge/magistrate signs warrant first? Furthermore, any arrest that doesn’t stem from an active warrant is an injustice?
Would you agree to CRIMINAL charges for false-reporting? i.e. your ex or disgruntled co-worker or family member faces a year in jail and pays all legal costs of the falsely-accused?
Graham is betraying us as well
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/graham-blumenthal-announce-bipartisan-bill-on-red-flag-laws-in-wake-of-el-paso-dayton-shootings
sidewaysil80
08-05-19, 20:15
Would you agree to CRIMINAL charges for false-reporting? i.e. your ex or disgruntled co-worker or family member faces a year in jail and pays all legal costs of the falsely-accused?
Absolutely 100%, harsh penalties are and should be mechanisms to curb false reporting.
However, much like the felons who fail firearm background checks, they’re never prosecuted.
Graham is betraying us as well
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/graham-blumenthal-announce-bipartisan-bill-on-red-flag-laws-in-wake-of-el-paso-dayton-shootings
Well, that’s nothing new.
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There is also chatter in the industry that Gov is working on a backdoor law to ban pistol braces as well right now, like they did with bump stocks earlier. Allegedly the shooter in Dayton had an AR Pistol (I hate being right, but I called this shit on a thread a few weeks back). I said it with bump stocks, and I will say it again with braces, all of this is a slippery slope.
I recently bought an H&K SP5K and an SB Tactical Brace for it - the only pistol brace I own. I plan on using this until I SBR the SP5K. A handy little instruction pamphlet came with it and it says the following:
"The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives has determined that attaching a Pistol Stabilizing Brace® to a firearm does NOT alter the classification of the firearm or subject the firearm to NFA control".
Now when I buy something legally, and use it in a legal manner, no future edicts, orders, laws or fart in the wind by some politician or bureaucrat will alter my future ownership and enjoyment of that item. That's guns and gun accessories. And I'm not going to sit around and wring my hands worrying about it.
OH- Get that form turned in. Good time in current climate to start the wait. A SBR'd SP5k is tits. Add a B&T folder and have at it.
Then you need a sear!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSMnCZeovUg
OH- Get that form turned in. Good time in current climate to start the wait. A SBR'd SP5k is tits. Add a B&T folder and have at it.
Then you need a sear!
In my case, I'm kind of a tall fellow, so the B&T folder will be the UMP version (a little extra length). I can say the quality of that SBTactical brace is very high. Glad to support a Veteran owned business.
GOA - letter to POTUS --- sign up.
https://oneclickpolitics.global.ssl.fastly.net/messages/edit?promo_id=6820
SomeOtherGuy
08-05-19, 22:09
Don't underestimate the chance that Trump bluffs on this, gets absolutely zilch in immigration, but signs into law some terrible unconstitutional BS relating to guns anyway. If it were any other "Republican" I would guarantee that 100%. With Trump I put the odds at 50/50.
But, hey, they weren't American citizens, so they didn't get to enjoy the protections of the Constitution anyway.
And today, only non-citizens are recognized as having Constitutional rights, so obviously we have made amends for that. /s
I am not to worried about anything on a federal level.
It is the state level I am worried about. Washington AG is already calling for magazine ban, and a AWB.
But because of I1639 that went into effect July 1st, it defines a Assault weapon as any semiautomatic, including Ruger 10/22.
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If it were any other "Republican" I would guarantee that 100%. With Trump I put the odds at 50/50.
Agreed. Thing is though, everything is 50/50 with Trump.
So what you say is...
Dems.. 100%
AORepub.. 100%
Trump 50%
He pays attention to voters. Don't forget he signed up for re-election in Jan. of 2016. This is his long game. If he does not win 2020, he will consider it a failure on his part. Let him know how you feel.
It is the state level I am worried about.
Same here. All the States are going Liberal if not already.
Is this the straw that breaks the camels back? I don’t know… But surely you all know that there will be more mass shootings. Gun control of some kind is just a matter of time. We better hope that it’s just something as simple as expanding background checks.
I have been saying that for a long time, its inevitable, its only a matter of time before our 2nd amendment becomes nothing more than a watered down right to own regulated handguns and highly regulated long guns. The best case scenario is congress does nothing except expand background checks to private gun sales. The second to best case is they outright ban pistol braces, collapsible butt stocks, and or high capacity magazines. The worst case is the outright ban assault rifles by make, model, manufacture, features and or all the above.
We disarmed the aboriginal Americans.
When they resisted, we slaughtered them.
And then we gave the Medal of Honor to those who slaughtered unarmed old men, women, and children alongside the men who refused to surrender their arms.
But, hey, they weren't American citizens, so they didn't get to enjoy the protections of the Constitution anyway.
Everyone believes in something, some people are willing to die for it, others are willing to kill for it. Its funny that during these times, I hear comments about how long until we do something about gun control, how many more shooting until we do something, why are these on our streets, why do you need this type of gun..... but I will guarantee that right now, Hollywood is producing a big budget action film that glamorizes killing people.
Yep. We must find a just way to help people who are dangerous to society. Or it’s not the govt job to solve. But don’t justify one injustice because we’ve accepted another one.
As a nation, we talk a lot about physical health and a lot on mental health, but rarely do we ever talk about emotional health. How many kids are being raised in the US with parents who neglect them? Bullied at school? Feeling lost, isolated, hurt or unaccepted? How many of these people have no men in there life? That might be where to start looking for people who may be in the early stages of being dangerous to society. After something like a mass shooting, we see pics of them on the news and almost every single one of us can say "yup, he looks like someone who would do that". I believe there are signs that are obvious and some that are less noticeable but never the less, there are sign of a person who is unhealthy, whether mentally or emotionally.
So you are saying no arrests or taking into custody UNLESS a judge/magistrate signs warrant first? Furthermore, any arrest that doesn’t stem from an active warrant is an injustice?
Bill of Rights clearly says in Amendment IV:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the person or things to be seized.
Yes, you need a warrant and before a warrant is issued, there needs to be probable cause supported by evidence and or a witness who should be held accountable, otherwise we get the equivalent of the Patriot Act and Patriot Act II. After 9/11 we as a nation used "terrorism" as justification to do what ever we wanted. Our government wiretapped and spied on everyone to keep us safe. Our government bypassed our constitution for what I think, to basically go about there business without any regulation or oversight. That's scary to me. Having a government let off its leash.
Would you agree to CRIMINAL charges for false-reporting? i.e. your ex or disgruntled co-worker or family member faces a year in jail and pays all legal costs of the falsely-accused?
ABSOLUTELY!! Reporting any suspicious activity to any agency or law enforcement should be under oath and every one who reports a false accusation should be held accountable to some degree. There is a difference between a "tip" and "false testimony". Yes the person who bears false witness against their neighbor should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law!
Me too man. We saw several that were supposed to be on "Our Side" turn in favor of popular opinion, and new restrictions. No thanks.
Separating the wheat from the chaff.
I am not to worried about anything on a federal level.
It is the state level I am worried about. Washington AG is already calling for magazine ban, and a AWB.
But because of I1639 that went into effect July 1st, it defines a Assault weapon as any semiautomatic, including Ruger 10/22.
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LOL, who’s going to comply with that crap?
LOL, who’s going to comply with that crap?
Once laws are passed the media will make it a "reality" that people are complying. A sacrificial lamb will also be brought forth.
Separating the wheat from the chaff.
LOL, who’s going to comply with that crap?Not sure. But when Washington banned bump stocks, it ran out of money set aside for it. $150K. So we have some that will comply.
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So you are saying no arrests or taking into custody UNLESS a judge/magistrate signs warrant first? Furthermore, any arrest that doesn’t stem from an active warrant is an injustice?
You are baying at the moon. Most of these folks, even a couple of the LEO's on board, are pretty fuzzy on the concept of due process.
For instance, like most officers, I've made felony arrests on PC and thrown guys in jail based on the type of info that we are talking about here - information from credible witnesses. In most of these cases, the arrested party's first shot at a judge was their first appearance/arraignment.
Red flag laws require a probable cause hearing prior to the fact, just like the PC hearing when an officer draws an arrest or search warrant. Search and arrest warrants are issued daily in most jurisdictions across the country. This is nothing more than setting a mechanism in place to determine PC for a warrant to temporarily seize weapons. Something any cop who actually cares and has an ounce of initiative can already do if they choose.
This is something that some of these folks don't understand, or, choose not to understand.
Instead of baying about 'muh, due process' folks ought to get on board and contact their Congress Critters and State Legislators to ensure that such acts require a speedier than normal preliminary hearing, eliminate the expense involved in the person reclaiming their property, and generally eliminate inconvenience where possible.
Instead, the collective we will drag our feet until we get something fvcked up rammed down our throats, then we can bitch about it, kind of like Obamacare.
Fvck.
A lot of you have no idea just how legal it is to snatch y'all up for at least 24 hours. Like even for speeding. It just doesn't happen because a. its chickenshit and b. ain't nobody got time fo' day.
And getting sent up.for a mental hearing way easier. It's virtually one word against the other until a QMHP performs a clinical assessment.
So if you ever get cuff slapped on you, literally shut up, BE CIVIL AND PROFESSIONAL, simply state you wish to make no statements until you speak to a lawyer (any lawyer) and do not curse yell pace or try to explain how bullshit this all is. Because the reality is that in a lot of places an arrest counts as "doing something"
If The Man wants to go in your house he will.
I dont agree with it but thats just how it is.
sidewaysil80
08-06-19, 04:41
You are baying at the moon. Most of these folks, even a couple of the LEO's on board, are pretty fuzzy on the concept of due process.
For instance, like most officers, I've made felony arrests on PC and thrown guys in jail based on the type of info that we are talking about here - information from credible witnesses. In most of these cases, the arrested party's first shot at a judge was their first appearance/arraignment.
Red flag laws require a probable cause hearing prior to the fact, just like the PC hearing when an officer draws an arrest or search warrant. Search and arrest warrants are issued daily in most jurisdictions across the country. This is nothing more than setting a mechanism in place to determine PC for a warrant to temporarily seize weapons. Something any cop who actually cares and has an ounce of initiative can already do if they choose.
This is something that some of these folks don't understand, or, choose not to understand.
Instead of baying about 'muh, due process' folks ought to get on board and contact their Congress Critters and State Legislators to ensure that such acts require a speedier than normal preliminary hearing, eliminate the expense involved in the person reclaiming their property, and generally eliminate inconvenience where possible.
Instead, the collective we will drag our feet until we get something fvcked up rammed down our throats, then we can bitch about it, kind of like Obamacare.
Fvck.
Can’t really add anything to this. Hit the nail on the head 100%.
Don't underestimate the chance that Trump bluffs on this, gets absolutely zilch in immigration, but signs into law some terrible unconstitutional BS relating to guns anyway. If it were any other "Republican" I would guarantee that 100%. With Trump I put the odds at 50/50.
Honestly, this is where I am with this. I think it is 50/50 that he will do the right thing and do what he said he would do.
This is all making me kinda depressed. Finally move to a free state only to have the feds pull the rug out from under me.
Adrenaline_6
08-06-19, 08:28
A lot of you have no idea just how legal it is to snatch y'all up for at least 24 hours. Like even for speeding. It just doesn't happen because a. its chickenshit and b. ain't nobody got time fo' day.
And getting sent up.for a mental hearing way easier. It's virtually one word against the other until a QMHP performs a clinical assessment.
So if you ever get cuff slapped on you, literally shut up, BE CIVIL AND PROFESSIONAL, simply state you wish to make no statements until you speak to a lawyer (any lawyer) and do not curse yell pace or try to explain how bullshit this all is. Because the reality is that in a lot of places an arrest counts as "doing something"
If The Man wants to go in your house he will.
I dont agree with it but thats just how it is.
Yup. Made that mistake once when I was young and stupid. Broke up a fight between a friend and another dude (young Marine) that ran into him at a club which spilled all our shots that he just bought - of course there was alcohol involved. I looked at his buddy to decipher what his intentions were going to be and he made it clear that he just wanted to break it up. I agreed that was the best course of action and we each grabbed a friend, separated them and broke it up. Police got there shortly after while we were still keeping them apart. One cop came up to my buddy and told him to calm down and sit down. Well, that warning didn't take with him and he kept talking crap to the other guy. The cop came back over and in effect told him " I said to calm down and sit down" while pushing him backwards. Mind you, I was still behind him, holding him in a chicken wing hold. He lost his balance and instinctively reached to grab something to maintain balance - bad move on his part, because it was the cops shirt that was closest to grab. That didn't go over well with said cop and he body slams my buddy and guess who is on the bottom of said slam? My left elbow, took the brunt of both their weight onto concrete. Needless to say, that really pissed me off and was very vocal about it. Fast forward an hour and I am being processed with my friend into a holding cell. Of course, the police report had some added drama that never happened to justify my arrest when the court date came around.
So yes I agree. Been there...done that. Learned not to go out drinking with that 'friend' anymore. Bad juju.
Wait, there are still people who think that politicians (of any part affiliate) are actually concerned about our freedoms? No wonder they keep getting away with it.
"Our guy is screwing them out of their freedom but hey, at least we got our item pushed through even if it cost "their side" but eff them, they're scum who deserved it!"
Lather, rinse & repeat as necessary with "other" party in power until we're all completely without freedom.
Wait, there are still people who think that politicians (of any part affiliate) are actually concerned about our freedoms? No wonder they keep getting away with it.
"Our guy is screwing them out of their freedom but hey, at least we got our item pushed through even if it cost "their side" but eff them, they're scum who deserved it!"
Lather, rinse & repeat as necessary with "other" party in power until we're all completely without freedom.
https://i.imgur.com/idq8FkC.png
WickedWillis
08-06-19, 12:01
I recently bought an H&K SP5K and an SB Tactical Brace for it - the only pistol brace I own. I plan on using this until I SBR the SP5K. A handy little instruction pamphlet came with it and it says the following:
"The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives has determined that attaching a Pistol Stabilizing Brace® to a firearm does NOT alter the classification of the firearm or subject the firearm to NFA control".
Now when I buy something legally, and use it in a legal manner, no future edicts, orders, laws or fart in the wind by some politician or bureaucrat will alter my future ownership and enjoyment of that item. That's guns and gun accessories. And I'm not going to sit around and wring my hands worrying about it.
*For now that's all true. I realize SB has all of their paperwork in every brace kit (I own 3 of them) but it will not matter at all if they are banned outright what the paper that came in the box says.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-06-19, 12:12
*For now that's all true. I realize SB has all of their paperwork in every brace kit (I own 3 of them) but it will not matter at all if they are banned outright what the paper that came in the box says.
Bump stocks were a lot more niche than braces. Lots of braces out there. They are like illegals, you are never going to get them all.
Doc Safari
08-06-19, 12:47
The narrative on the news shows today seems to be "illegally modified rifle" and "high velocity ammo."
Two news stories focused on the huge drum magazine.
You know how the MSM works: Once the talking points are out all of them repeat the same meme.
I think if we just shut up about braces the crisis may have passed.
Lol @ high velocity ammo
These people truly are morons
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Lol @ high velocity ammo
These people truly are morons
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Isn’t all ammo technically “high velocity”?
Outlander Systems
08-06-19, 12:56
Wait a minute. Wait a minute.
Didn’t we already throw all of our rights in a fire for the Patriot Act, specifically to protect us from this sort of thing?
Doc Safari
08-06-19, 13:00
Lol @ high velocity ammo
These people truly are morons
I don't even want to articulate where "high velocity" leads, so I'll speak in code: full weight retention vs. not.
Bump stocks were a lot more niche than braces. Lots of braces out there. They are like illegals, you are never going to get them all.
Doesn't really matter if you can't get one out and use it.
SomeOtherGuy
08-06-19, 13:31
Didn’t we
Who is this "we"? I'm not part of it.
already throw all of our rights in a fire for the Patriot Act,
Yes, also multiple times under FDR (NFA but other non-gun issues), the 68 GCA, 1965 Hart-Celler, about half of the 86 FOPA, 93, 94, Patriot Act, Patriot II, etc. etc.
specifically to protect us from this sort of thing?
Ha.
Ha ha ha.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
WickedWillis
08-06-19, 13:38
Wait a minute. Wait a minute.
Didn’t we already throw all of our rights in a fire for the Patriot Act, specifically to protect us from this sort of thing?
Shhhh, we do not discuss that
WickedWillis
08-06-19, 13:38
Bump stocks were a lot more niche than braces. Lots of braces out there. They are like illegals, you are never going to get them all.
I sure hope you are right
Doc Safari
08-06-19, 13:44
Yes, I wonder how many AR pistols are out there, versus a few thousand bump stocks?
Plus, a bump stock doesn't cost as much as a complete firearm: much less pain to simply throw it in the closet and forget it.
If many thousands of AR pistols are suddenly contraband that's not going to get Damn Democrats many new votes.
Here you go, crazy uncle Joe will be coming for your guns if he gets elected.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-assault-weapons-ban-shootings
Crazy because you can have a flamethrower https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190806/cf6b1baf82961a3dcebfcdc361f82c64.jpg
Anyways
FAFO
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SomeOtherGuy
08-06-19, 16:30
Crazy because you can have a flamethrower
Don't try to get reality in, Crazy Joe doesn't let it intrude. Most of the rest of the D field doesn't either. If Yang and Tulsi get excluded from the race, which appears to be about completed, there won't be anyone in the remaining field who wants to discuss reality or is really capable of doing so.
Of course, the police report had some added drama that never happened to justify my arrest when the court date came around.
I hear this a lot, and I experienced it once. But I don’t see much being done about it. Then we wonder why “those people on the left” talk and actually act violently toward the police. If the good popo don’t take care of bad popo, the people eventually will.
PatrioticDisorder
08-06-19, 18:31
https://www.axios.com/dayton-republican-congressman-gun-control-0a6b4a47-38c9-49da-b38b-76bfb6b68ae6.html
Red Coat Republican Mike Turner of Ohio wants your guns. Anyone living in Ohio, this guy needs to be knocked out in the next primary.
Remember - we live in a post modern society. Joe spews soundbites that make no sense, and libs/commies/nuts yell "yeah" cuz they feel bad for someone. The media is milking the CRAP out of this. We don't know where Trump will go. Support the GOA. Talk to people who can still turn the light on. And always remember, if Hillary was in confiscation would be on the ballot. Gun control would have been enacted years ago.
Diamondback
08-06-19, 19:23
https://www.axios.com/dayton-republican-congressman-gun-control-0a6b4a47-38c9-49da-b38b-76bfb6b68ae6.html
Red Coat Republican Mike Turner of Ohio wants your guns. Anyone living in Ohio, this guy needs to be knocked out in the next primary.
Sadly, he's pretty typical of the Ohio Republican Party establishment--I know, some of my ancestors were part of ORP at its founding. Dunno which is more embarrassing heritage, the political dynasty in one branch or the outlaw gang in another...
SilverBullet432
08-06-19, 21:56
Sounds like more red flag laws coming soon: not good...
https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4811888/algorithms-find-gun-owners&fbclid=IwAR3Olq0YVupXJkhzDjRmtYBKa5p4Gz2r_PMfllrDNShehHYo6OWSeOEsIJo
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-06-19, 23:12
We've always said, it's not the gun, it's the person. So they go after the person- should we be surprised. I still don't know why we need these red flag laws. Either you are a threat or you aren't. Guns, gas, cars, trucks, poison. Dangerous is dangerous.
So how long till and someone gets Red Flagged and disarmed and he goes out and runs over 100 people?
Why does “compromise” always means we give up something and they get something? We need to started getting something in return. When Trump was elected he started a policy of removing three regulations for every regulation added. If we are able to create that environment it may slow them down. Actually it would be a great law in of itself.
I am a 2nd Amendment absolutist but I also know which way the wind blows. Universal background checks are coming at some point. If it is unavoidable then we need to get something back. Like taking suppressors or SBRs off the NFA. National reciprocity, etc.
Now I’m not talking about an assault weapons or magazine bans. There should be no compromise on ownership and possession ever and I’m hoping SCOTUS will way in on arbitrary bans as Clarance Thomas seems to be asking to do.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-07-19, 08:27
Just for giggles, I want to have the law explicitly state that the information can't be used to make a defacto gun registration and the purpose is to simply validate that someone is legally buying a gun.
I know it doesn't matter, I know that under currently law that is covered. I want to see them either squirm now or later when they try to actually do it.
What does 'Strict' mean anyways?
WickedWillis
08-07-19, 11:53
Am I the only one here that wants to panic buy things I can't afford when this shit starts happening?
Outlander Systems
08-07-19, 12:03
BOHICA
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/08/07/usa-today-headquarters-evacuated-after-report-man-gun/1944136001/
Just for giggles, I want to have the law explicitly state that the information can't be used to make a defacto gun registration and the purpose is to simply validate that someone is legally buying a gun.
I know it doesn't matter, I know that under currently law that is covered. I want to see them either squirm now or later when they try to actually do it.
What does 'Strict' mean anyways?
Just for those reading:
Federal law explicitly prohibits federal law enforcement agencies from: (1) using dealers’ records of sales to establish a centralized system for the registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearm transactions; or (2) requiring dealers’ records of sales to be recorded in, or transferred to a centralized facility.16
Foot note 16: 18 U.S.C. § 926.
My link: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/926
No such rule or regulation prescribed after the date of the enactment of the Firearms Owners’ Protection Act may require that records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records, be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof, nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or dispositions be established. Nothing in this section expands or restricts the Secretary’s authority to inquire into the disposition of any firearm in the course of a criminal investigation.
I know the process has been posted before but here it is:
The ATF’s National Tracing Center is located in Martinsburg, West Virginia. There, analysts trace hundreds of thousands of guns every year. They could trace even more, but they can’t because the tracing center is more archive than efficient.
Neil Troppman, program manager at the center, said the facility is filled with roughly 700,000,000 documents. Instead of records being entered into a computer, they are stuffed into shipping containers and stacked in boxes.
All the records come from gun sales that date back decades. Though, none of them are entered into any kind of searchable computer program which could drastically speed up the tracing process.
“We house those in a system that is still manually searched,” Troppman said. “Because we are prohibited from maintaining any sort of a searchable database of names.”
When Congress passed the Gun Control Act 50 years ago, it gave ATF the right to trace guns used in crimes. However, Congress was also concerned with protecting the rights of gun owners.
Every time someone buys a gun in America they fill out a federal background check, also known as ATF Form 4473. Congress is also sensitive to the federal government’s big brother perception, so lawmakers limit what the ATF can do with those forms.
That includes prohibiting the ATF from entering those forms in the kind of computerized database many gun owners oppose. Problem is, the ATF uses those same forms to trace weapons used in a crime. So, by requiring all these forms stay in stacks rather than a computer database, search results that could be a few keystrokes away are anything but.
Troppman said the ATF tracing center gets 1,200 to 1,500 trace requests every day. That’s an average of one every minute of the day. Instead of working through that caseload by entering the guns serial number into a computer, like the police would to track the owner of a car, tracing center analysts have to go through a much more time consuming and cumbersome process.
First analysts pick up a phone and call the gun manufacturer to get the name of the store where the gun was sold. Then they use that information to track down the store owner, since by law it’s the owner who is required to keep and maintain records of the firearms they buy or sell.
Once the ATF reaches the gun store owner, they can finally figure out who originally bought the gun they are tracing. Unless that store has gone out of business.
When a gun store closes, the owner is required to send all federal gun sale records to the tracing center. Which means in addition to the 700,000,000 documents the center already has in-house, roughly 2,000,000 new records arrive every month.
That creates even more work for a staff of 350.
Troppman said a single gun trace takes a week or more except in the most high-profile cases.
“We get calls from law enforcement on a regular basis now hey we got this serial number can you look it up for us?” Troppman said. “And the answer is no. That’s not at all how it works.”
Despite the fact the ATF can’t put gun sale records into a database, some states have their own rules allowing it. That's because state gun laws can be more strict than federal gun laws.
In Maryland, law enforcement is allowed to take records of every gun bought, sold or traded in the state enter it into a computer database. That database can be searched with just a couple of mouse clicks when state police trace a gun.
However, those searchable records are only for guns purchased in Maryland.
Here is another story, more interesting to read, although, the author is pro computerized system:
https://www.businessinsider.com/heres-how-cops-actually-trace-a-gun-2016-8
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-07-19, 12:19
So they make it that states track it like MD or else they don't some money of some sort. That's how the FEDs do everything that they aren't supposed to- they farm it out to the states, or have some corp do it.
Seeing that Jackass Castro is using the federal database on campaign donations to politically target people- I'm not trusting them with a list of guns I own, or may own.
Heading to El Paso, Trump nixes assault weapons ban. President Donald Trump dismissed legislation to ban assault rifles as politically unfeasible on Wednesday as he prepared to visit the sites of two deadly mass shootings. As he left the White House, Trump said he wanted to strengthen background checks for gun purchases and make sure mentally ill people did not carry guns. He predicted congressional support for those two measures but not for banning assault rifles.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-shooting/heading-to-el-paso-trump-nixes-assault-weapons-ban-idUSKCN1UX0W9
Doc Safari
08-07-19, 13:33
Yip Yip Yahoo.
Cue next mass shooting in 3...2...1...
Averageman
08-07-19, 13:36
This should get the response he was looking for;
The Left will lose their minds now and demand someone go door to door and take all the weapons.
Not good enough. A lot can go wrong with "strengthen background checks for gun purchases and make sure mentally ill people did not carry guns"
So he didnt say he was against it, just that it wasn't politically viable.
So that means he is for it, just wait until after the Election and see what he says.
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Not good enough. A lot can go wrong with "strengthen background checks for gun purchases and make sure mentally ill people did not carry guns"
Yup...
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Doc Safari
08-07-19, 14:35
Something tells me this background check meme will turn out to be "full of sound and fury signifying nothing."
News flash ---- Its August in DC. There ain't a soul around and they ain't coming back till September not to mention we are in presidential election politics. Let's add to that the senate majority leader, who is solid on the 2nd, is recovering from a fractured shoulder which I am sure hurts like hell and he probably wants to stay at home. Not to mention he rarely gives a damn what anyone says.
For those that dont know what any of that means, it means nothing going to happen.
So he didnt say he was against it, just that it wasn't politically viable.
So that means he is for it, just wait until after the Election and see what he says.
No it means he will not lobby for it, but if it lands on his desk he will, and claim well there was more support than I thought.
The man already told Feinstein to he would pass an AWB. How quickly we forget....
Right decision DT.
But WRONG explanation...
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No it means he will not lobby for it, but if it lands on his desk he will, and claim well there was more support than I thought.
The man already told Feinstein to he would pass an AWB. How quickly we forget....When was that, I dont remember anything about that??
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When was that, I dont remember anything about that??
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google "trump makes Feinstein giddy"
https://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/03/01/mobapp-sen-dianne-feinstein-giddy-trump-gun-bill.cnn
"Diane, add what you have to the bill"
1_click_off
08-07-19, 16:32
58396
Buddy sent me this. May be a sad prediction...
I interpret this to mean he'll compromise by giving the antis red flag laws and UBC's, but he'll let us keep our EBR's.
"Compromise"... :(
No he did NOT nix ANYTHING. From the article....
As he left the White House, Trump said he wanted to strengthen background checks for gun purchases and make sure mentally ill people did not carry guns. He predicted congressional support for those two measures but not for banning assault rifles.
"There is a great appetite, and I mean a very strong appetite, for background checks.” I can tell you that there is no political appetite for that at this moment,” Trump told reporters at the White House. “But I will certainly bring that up"
He just said there was not political support for a ban right now. IMHO, an AWB was what he was referring to when he made a comment that he'd "bring it up". He absolutely did NOT imply that he was against another AWB.
Imma make a prediction:
Lord Cheeto will sign any and all gun control legislation that reaches his desk.
And Wayne La Pierre will put on a $250,000 suit and lick his boots while he signs and tell us all how great a patriot Cheeto is and how much worse it would have been had Hillary been elected.
**** it. Yang 2020. If I'm gonna get ****ed anyway, might as well get that free money for my trouble.
**** it. Yang 2020. If I'm gonna get ****ed anyway, might as well get that free money for my trouble.
THAT.
Fully knowing the consequences, I will just NOT VOTE in the 2020 election if Trump signs off on an AWB. I'm serious.
WickedWillis
08-07-19, 17:47
So they make it that states track it like MD or else they don't some money of some sort. That's how the FEDs do everything that they aren't supposed to- they farm it out to the states, or have some corp do it.
Seeing that Jackass Castro is using the federal database on campaign donations to politically target people- I'm not trusting them with a list of guns I own, or may own.
Yeah that Castro deal was clown shoes. He knew exactly what he was doing there for sure.
Just for those reading:
Federal law explicitly prohibits federal law enforcement agencies from: (1) using dealers’ records of sales to establish a centralized system for the registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearm transactions; or (2) requiring dealers’ records of sales to be recorded in, or transferred to a centralized facility.16
Foot note 16: 18 U.S.C. § 926.
My link: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/926
No such rule or regulation prescribed after the date of the enactment of the Firearms Owners’ Protection Act may require that records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records, be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof, nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or dispositions be established. Nothing in this section expands or restricts the Secretary’s authority to inquire into the disposition of any firearm in the course of a criminal investigation.
I know the process has been posted before but here it is:
The ATF’s National Tracing Center is located in Martinsburg, West Virginia. There, analysts trace hundreds of thousands of guns every year. They could trace even more, but they can’t because the tracing center is more archive than efficient.
Neil Troppman, program manager at the center, said the facility is filled with roughly 700,000,000 documents. Instead of records being entered into a computer, they are stuffed into shipping containers and stacked in boxes.
All the records come from gun sales that date back decades. Though, none of them are entered into any kind of searchable computer program which could drastically speed up the tracing process.
“We house those in a system that is still manually searched,” Troppman said. “Because we are prohibited from maintaining any sort of a searchable database of names.”
When Congress passed the Gun Control Act 50 years ago, it gave ATF the right to trace guns used in crimes. However, Congress was also concerned with protecting the rights of gun owners.
Every time someone buys a gun in America they fill out a federal background check, also known as ATF Form 4473. Congress is also sensitive to the federal government’s big brother perception, so lawmakers limit what the ATF can do with those forms.
That includes prohibiting the ATF from entering those forms in the kind of computerized database many gun owners oppose. Problem is, the ATF uses those same forms to trace weapons used in a crime. So, by requiring all these forms stay in stacks rather than a computer database, search results that could be a few keystrokes away are anything but.
Troppman said the ATF tracing center gets 1,200 to 1,500 trace requests every day. That’s an average of one every minute of the day. Instead of working through that caseload by entering the guns serial number into a computer, like the police would to track the owner of a car, tracing center analysts have to go through a much more time consuming and cumbersome process.
First analysts pick up a phone and call the gun manufacturer to get the name of the store where the gun was sold. Then they use that information to track down the store owner, since by law it’s the owner who is required to keep and maintain records of the firearms they buy or sell.
Once the ATF reaches the gun store owner, they can finally figure out who originally bought the gun they are tracing. Unless that store has gone out of business.
When a gun store closes, the owner is required to send all federal gun sale records to the tracing center. Which means in addition to the 700,000,000 documents the center already has in-house, roughly 2,000,000 new records arrive every month.
That creates even more work for a staff of 350.
Troppman said a single gun trace takes a week or more except in the most high-profile cases.
“We get calls from law enforcement on a regular basis now hey we got this serial number can you look it up for us?” Troppman said. “And the answer is no. That’s not at all how it works.”
Despite the fact the ATF can’t put gun sale records into a database, some states have their own rules allowing it. That's because state gun laws can be more strict than federal gun laws.
In Maryland, law enforcement is allowed to take records of every gun bought, sold or traded in the state enter it into a computer database. That database can be searched with just a couple of mouse clicks when state police trace a gun.
However, those searchable records are only for guns purchased in Maryland.
Here is another story, more interesting to read, although, the author is pro computerized system:
https://www.businessinsider.com/heres-how-cops-actually-trace-a-gun-2016-8
We have plenty of examples where federal employees have conducted unauthorized (and unlawful) searches on people with just a few strokes on a keyboard. I have no doubt that a searchable, computerized database of gun transactions would be abused. They are prevented by law from having an easy button on gun traces for a legitimate reason. It needs to remain difficult to do for that reason, which is just as valid now as it was then, if not more so.
THAT.
Fully knowing the consequences, I will just NOT VOTE in the 2020 election if Trump signs off on an AWB. I'm serious.
Seconded. I fully expect a lot of pro 2A people would actively vote against him, just to spit in his face and hasten the impending boogaloo. :(
He signs an AWB he's done. Count on it. Certainly my vote won't be there.
His margins were razor thin in many states that he did win in 2016 so signing an AWB would be the death-knell of his 2020 campaign. I strongly suspect he knows that.
PatrioticDisorder
08-07-19, 19:37
He signs an AWB he's done. Count on it. Certainly my vote won't be there.
His margins were razor thin in many states that he did win in 2016 so signing an AWB would be the death-knell of his 2020 campaign. I strongly suspect he knows that.
As someone who supported Trump in 2016, I have to ask the question, what happens in his second term (assuming there is one for arguments sake) and a deranged killer shoots some people, will he have an appetite for a ban then? I am trusting him less and less all the time. Obviously Don Jr, doesn’t have as much influence over him as his daughter Ivanka does.
As someone who supported Trump in 2016, I have to ask the question, what happens in his second term (assuming there is one for arguments sake) and a deranged killer shoots some people, will he have an appetite for a ban then? I am trusting him less and less all the time. Obviously Don Jr, doesn’t have as much influence over him as his daughter Ivanka does.
That's the $64,000 question (yeah, I'm old with that reference!). Guess we'll find out......
SomeOtherGuy
08-07-19, 19:45
As someone who supported Trump in 2016, I have to ask the question, what happens in his second term (assuming there is one for arguments sake) and a deranged killer shoots some people, will he have an appetite for a ban then? I am trusting him less and less all the time. Obviously Don Jr, doesn’t have as much influence over him as his daughter Ivanka does.
Don't trust him at all, but he was still less worse than Hillary.
I would much rather see an actual sincere right-wing* candidate for 2020, but that's far less likely than Ron Paul being declared Emperor for the Millennium.
*let's drop the "conservative" moniker, it means nothing good - whatever it was supposed to mean, today it means worthless boot-licking career politicians who mumble unfelt apologies while going along with whatever the left wants.
As someone who supported Trump in 2016, I have to ask the question, what happens in his second term (assuming there is one for arguments sake) and a deranged killer shoots some people, will he have an appetite for a ban then? I am trusting him less and less all the time. Obviously Don Jr, doesn’t have as much influence over him as his daughter Ivanka does.
It’s ok guys his kid gets it
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190808/7f11b8e66ae5ffc0dd13fce5951ba1c3.jpg
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Outlander Systems
08-07-19, 20:04
Trust the plan. 4D Chess, r-right m, g-guys?
It’s ok guys his kid gets it
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190808/7f11b8e66ae5ffc0dd13fce5951ba1c3.jpg
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Diamondback
08-07-19, 20:06
It’s ok guys his kid gets it
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190808/7f11b8e66ae5ffc0dd13fce5951ba1c3.jpg
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Problem is, is that the kid who has his ear, or is it lefty loon Ivanka playing the "Daddy Dearest" card to the hilt he's listening to?
THAT.
Fully knowing the consequences, I will just NOT VOTE in the 2020 election if Trump signs off on an AWB. I'm serious.
Agreed. He signs a ban, I won't vote for him. At that point he's no better or worse than Hillary or Bernie. I'd probably hope he's running against Yang.
Now if he doesn't sign an AW ban or comes out against an AW ban, then he will get my vote even with the few sketchty things he's done. Let's not forget Bush 41 gave us a ban that's still in effect and Bush (43) vowed to sign an AW ban "if it reached his desk." And everyone voted for Bush (43) twice, admittedly it was still a better idea than Gore or Kerry even with his vow to sign an AW ban.
Bush 41 lost my vote with the 89 Import Ban and I knowingly voted for Perot even though I knew it would probably give us Bill Clinton. At least his stupid ban sunsetted despite a Republican majority Congress voting to reauthorize it in 2004 as part of a Larry Craig bill which Craig thankfully withdrew as a result.
Too bad Larry Craig never ran for President, first gay President would be hard to criticize by the left.
Graham is betraying us as well
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/graham-blumenthal-announce-bipartisan-bill-on-red-flag-laws-in-wake-of-el-paso-dayton-shootings
Could have told you that would happen years ago.
President Trump will not sign a new AWB between now and the election even if Congress could pass one which I doubt.
Democrats take the White House and Congress it is 99% sure they will try and do a AWB.
If President Trump is reelected we have a 50-50 chance on if he would sign a bill.
President Trump will not sign a new AWB between now and the election even if Congress could pass one which I doubt.
Democrats take the White House and Congress it is 99% sure they will try and do a AWB.
If President Trump is reelected we have a 50-50 chance on if he would sign a bill.
Ball is in Trumps court. If he refuses to sign or ask for a ban between now and the election, he gets my vote. If he signs a ban between now and then I think most of us are done.
MountainRaven
08-08-19, 00:00
President Trump will not sign a new AWB between now and the election even if Congress could pass one which I doubt.
Democrats take the White House and Congress it is 99% sure they will try and do a AWB.
If President Trump is reelected we have a 50-50 chance on if he would sign a bill.
At least some Republicans will stand up against an AWB if the Democrats are in control.
Remember 2013? Democrats controlled the Senate and the White House. Not only did they not pass an AWB, they didn't even pass one in the Democrat-controlled Senate and every single gun control bill presented for voting on the floor of the Senate was voted down.
Everything is flipped now. Including the likelihood of bipartisan gun control.
Keep voting for Republicans, though. I'm sure they'll pass concealed carry reciprocity, remove silencers from the NFA, repeal the Hughes amendment...
Oh. Wait. :jester:
At least some Republicans will stand up against an AWB if the Democrats are in control.
Remember 2013? Democrats controlled the Senate and the White House. Not only did they not pass an AWB, they didn't even pass one in the Democrat-controlled Senate and every single gun control bill presented for voting on the floor of the Senate was voted down.
Everything is flipped now. Including the likelihood of bipartisan gun control.
Keep voting for Republicans, though. I'm sure they'll pass concealed carry reciprocity, remove silencers from the NFA, repeal the Hughes amendment...
Oh. Wait. :jester:
But they did try really hard after Sandy Hook, and when everyone thought it was done and over, they tried a last hour, hail mary attempt where NRA A rated Harry Reid tried to ram it through when nobody was looking.
So nothing has really flipped, the only thing that changed is todays Republicans are not any better than the Democrats from a few decades ago. John Kennedy was more conservative than Paul Ryan.
Trump is a "born again" Republican who used to be a liberal NY Democrat. He's still a wild card and he will go wherever the power and money lead him. Just like most people in government.
PatrioticDisorder
08-08-19, 05:57
But they did try really hard after Sandy Hook, and when everyone thought it was done and over, they tried a last hour, hail mary attempt where NRA A rated Harry Reid tried to ram it through when nobody was looking.
So nothing has really flipped, the only thing that changed is todays Republicans are not any better than the Democrats from a few decades ago. John Kennedy was more conservative than Paul Ryan.
Trump is a "born again" Republican who used to be a liberal NY Democrat. He's still a wild card and he will go wherever the power and money lead him. Just like most people in government.
When is the last time we had a true pro 2a president? In my lifetime Reagan signed FOPA with the Hughes Amendment (and later wrote a letter urging the AWB to be implemented), first Bush the import ban, Clinton the AWB, after it sunset Bush 2 urged congress to renew the AWB, Obama pushed hard for an AWB/Background checks and let’s not forget 41P which turned into 41F (if 41P went through as Obama wanted it would have for all intents and purposes it would have made it virtually impossible to acquire new suppressors, SBRs, SBS, DDs, AOWs and make it very difficult to transfer machine guns as it would have required CLEO sign off and good luck with that in most parts of the country).
So now we have Trump, who has overall done a helluva job fighting back against the swamp. Yes, he isn’t nearly as pro 2a as many of us had hoped for, but how many presidents at this point wouldn’t be pushing for an AWB? New poll shows 45% of Republicans support an AWB (that is a sad state of affairs in and of itself) and yet Trump is shooting that idea down. I don’t think Trump is a huge fan of people having AR-15s, etc. but I believe he is standing firm because of Don Jr. who I believe is pro RKBA. I believe Trump sees background checks and red flag laws as not infringing on law abiding people and only going after people who shouldn’t have guns. I disagree with him, I am a RKBA absolutist but as a practical matter I understand very very very few politicians are RKBA absolutists. At the end of the day, it will be SCOTUS that decides how much of this gun grabbing shit stands and while so called conservative justices have disappointed us (Clarence Thomas not withstanding), I’d rather have Trump picking the next justice over a leftist wacko who will assuredly pick a judicial activist that wishes nothing more than to nullify the 2nd amendment.
You are all welcome for the context!
Doc Safari
08-08-19, 07:53
Those of you ragging on Trump, I remind you that Hillary would already have made our lives miserable.
Those of you ragging on Trump, I remind you that Hillary would already have made our lives miserable.
Would she though? I would normally agree with you, but what did Obama do to attack the 2A? I know they are different people, but everyone was losing their minds over Obama. However, he didn't do a damn thing.
Doc Safari
08-08-19, 08:56
Would she though? I would normally agree with you, but what did Obama do to attack the 2A? I know they are different people, but everyone was losing their minds over Obama. However, he didn't do a damn thing.
I remember Hillary from the 1990's. I am convinced she persuaded Bill to pursue every gun control measure they pushed for, and may have even convinced the administration to undertake the Waco raid. The bitch is probably the most anti-gun "human being" who ever lived.
PatrioticDisorder
08-08-19, 08:58
Would she though? I would normally agree with you, but what did Obama do to attack the 2A? I know they are different people, but everyone was losing their minds over Obama. However, he didn't do a damn thing.
Do you forget the aftermath of Sandy Hook? Obama make the strategic decision to go after RKBA after reelection, the timing couldn’t have been better for him to make his push. He pushed for an AWB, magazine ban, universal background checks... he also tried to ban M855 and of course let’s not forget 41P, thankfully someone at the BATFE made a decision to “compromise” with the CLEO notification vs. the CLEO sign off even for trusts, the original 41P had CLEO sign off which would have been a de facto ban on SBR/SBS/DD/AOW and transferable machine guns for a vast majority of us. Now we have another speed bump in acquiring these items with photos/fingerprints for those of us using trusts (most of us).
Let’s not forget the fast and furious scandal & Obama claiming executive privilege shutting down the investigation of it. Eric Holder was the guy who said publicly we have to brainwash young people on guns.
He didn’t accomplish a lot, but it sure as hell wasn’t a lack of trying!
Do you forget the aftermath of Sandy Hook? Obama make the strategic decision to go after RKBA after reelection, the timing couldn’t have been better for him to make his push. He pushed for an AWB, magazine ban, universal background checks... he also tried to ban M855 and of course let’s not forget 41P, thankfully someone at the BATFE made a decision to “compromise” with the CLEO notification vs. the CLEO sign off even for trusts, the original 41P had CLEO sign off which would have been a de facto ban on SBR/SBS/DD/AOW and transferable machine guns for a vast majority of us. Now we have another speed bump in acquiring these items with photos/fingerprints for those of us using trusts (most of us).
Let’s not forget the fast and furious scandal & Obama claiming executive privilege shutting down the investigation of it. Eric Holder was the guy who said publicly we have to brainwash young people on guns.
He didn’t accomplish a lot, but it sure as hell wasn’t a lack of trying!
Obama tried to ban M855?
Obama introduced 41P?
Or the BATF?
It has nothing to do with who is president. It has to do with the House and the Senate. The Senate is the savior today and if you want to fight you should fight to get the house back for when we lose the senate. It amazes me how many people that bitch about politics have no idea how the system works. That is why young libs are always bitching about the system because it's built to protect us.
PatrioticDisorder
08-08-19, 09:08
Obama tried to ban M855?
Obama introduced 41P?
Or the BATF?
Obama commented on the topic publicly, “trust loophole”, etc. We can play the same game with Trump, who banned bump stocks, Trump or the BATFE? With both administrations pressure was placed on BATFE.
Obama commented on the topic publicly, “trust loophole”, etc. We can play the same game with Trump, who banned bump stocks, Trump or the BATFE? With both administrations pressure was placed on BATFE.
Good point.
SomeOtherGuy
08-08-19, 09:25
Forget guns - we need to ban knives. Knife massacre in California just yesterday:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-08/4-dead-2-wounded-in-southern-california-stabbings
Los Angeles (AP) -- A man who was "full of anger" went on a two-hour stabbing and robbery rampage in Southern California, killing four people and wounding two others, authorities said Wednesday.
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-08-08/four-people-killed-two-injured-los-angeles-stabbing-and-robbery-rampage
The perp even stole a handgun during the crime spree and kept using his machete/knife. Contact your representatives and DEMAND a ban on "assault knives". No civilian needs a knife that is sharp, or longer than two inches. Only psychotic criminals would want knives like that.
/s in the USA, but basically current public discourse in the UK. And the news story is real.
Obama tried to ban M855?
Obama introduced 41P?
Or the BATF?
Yes..
Would she though? I would normally agree with you, but what did Obama do to attack the 2A? I know they are different people, but everyone was losing their minds over Obama. However, he didn't do a damn thing.
We were saved by his overall lack of experience. He "thought" he could EO all of his wishes and dreams, thankfully he was wrong. Hillary on the other hand has a LOT of experience with how the system actually works.
If my choice was Obama vs. Hillary I'd be voting for Obama.
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