View Full Version : Pistol Braces Next on the Target List?
Boba Fett v2
08-06-19, 17:10
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/08/05/dayton-shooter-used-gun-may-have-exploited-legal-loophole/1927566001/
Dayton shooter used a modified gun that may have exploited a legal loophole
CINCINNATI – Even though it looked like a rifle, the*gun used to kill nine people and wound at least 14*more*was likely classified as a pistol, skirting laws restricting short-barreled rifles.
Will the device on Connor Betts' weapon, called a*"pistol brace," become the next bump stock in nation's gun control debate?
Here's what we know about the AR-15 style .223 caliber firearm used in the Dayton shooting Sunday:
It was legally purchased by Betts' from an online retailer in Texas. It*then was transferred to him by a local firearms dealer*who would be required to perform a background check, police said.
Nothing on Betts' criminal record would have prevented him from buying a gun.
He used legal-to-own 100-round drum magazines.
The lower receiver, which houses the trigger,*was made by Anderson Manufacturing in Hebron, Kentucky. Under federal law, the lower receiver is the gun. Purchasing a lower receiver requires a background check. All other parts of guns,*such as barrels and stocks,*can be bought legally off the shelf or online.
Betts could have had as many as 250 rounds in his possession; he fired at least 41 rounds in about 30 seconds.
On Monday, Dayton Police Chief Richard Biehl said Betts' gun was "modified in essence to function like a rifle" and "to avoid any legal prohibitions." He did not specifically cite a pistol brace, but photos of the weapon released by police show one.
The federal restrictions on short-barreled rifles were enacted to stop people from making rifles, guns fired from the shoulder, more concealable. Rifles typically can*fire more powerful cartridges than pistols and shoulder stocks allow the rifles*to be fired*more accurately.
It is illegal to own a rifle with a barrel shorter than 16 inches*without paying $200 for a*National Firearms Act tax stamp and completing all the related paperwork and background checks. The process is similar to legally owning a fully automatic rifle.
It is unclear if Betts' went through this process, but the firearm he used*did have a barrel shorter than 16 inches.
AR-15-style firearms can be rifles or pistols. A pistol can have a short barrel, but no shoulder stock. A rifle can have a shoulder stock, but the barrel must be 16 inches or longer.
Enter the pistol brace, also known as a stabilizing brace. For all practical purposes, this device allows pistols with short barrels to have something resembling a shoulder stock.
Companies began marketing pistol braces in the early 2010s after getting approval letters from the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.*The braces are designed to be strapped to the arm, allowing AR-15-style pistols to be more easily fired with one hand.
Many of these devices closely resemble shoulder stocks and can be used in that fashion, which raises*another question for the ATF. If you put a pistol brace to your shoulder, does that turn your gun into something illegal?*
The ATF has gone back and forth on its answer.*The agency has issued several open letters, which are not*law*but indications of how the agency plans to interpret the law.
In 2012, the ATF issued a letter saying braces could be attached to a pistol without turning the weapon into a short-barreled rifle.
In 2015, the agency*said firing a pistol from the shoulder with a brace would not constitute a "redesign" and would require all the necessary paperwork and taxes.
When brace manufacturers sought*more clarification, the ATF again appeared to change its stance in 2017.*The ATF said "incidental, sporadic, or situation ‘use’ of an arm-brace" from the shoulder did not constitute a redesign, but taking "affirmative steps to configure the*device" as a shoulder stock would,*such as*removing straps intended to wrap around the arm.
Dean Rieck, the executive director of the Buckeye Firearm Association, said trying to ban firearm components will not prevent the next mass shooting.
"After every shooting, we see the same pattern," Rieck said. "People have certain pet laws they want to see passed. You'll probably see various laws proposed."
In terms of pistol braces, Rieck said: "Things like that don't really make a difference. If your purpose is to harm people, that configuration is not ideal anyway."
After the Las Vegas mass shooting, Cincinnati and Columbus attempted to ban bump stocks, which can increase the rate of fire of a rifle. Rieck's association successfully blocked the bans by invoking Ohio's preemption rule,* which stops cities from overriding state gun laws.
Chief Biehl has not said it he believes*the short barrel and pistol brace assisted Betts in the killings, but he did take a stance on the level of firepower used in the attack.
Asked about the 100-round magazines, he said: "It’s problematic. It is fundamentally problematic. To have that level of weaponry in a civilian environment unregulated is problematic."
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The_War_Wagon
08-06-19, 17:39
Shoulder thing that goes up. :rolleyes:
How many "pistols" have been sold with the brace as part of the deal? I am guessing many and it added a couple hundred dollars or more to the purchase price. Case in point is the Sig Sauer MPX PISTOL-MPX-K9. If they attempt to outlaw a part of a weapon that came pre-installed, all hell will break lose.
Many people (erringly) rolled over on bump stocks, but pistol braces have become so mainstream, i think there would be too big of an uproar from the gun crowd. I agree with OH58D that all hell would probably break loose.
That would be discriminatory against the disabled.
That would be discriminatory against the disabled.
And every gun law or infringement has been discriminatory against the constitution and the American populace at large.
And yet, here we are.
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Outlander Systems
08-06-19, 18:17
This.
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-OI2pGRIhoKQ/XUlEi4mg4YI/AAAAAAAAAWc/E_bFiOefKnge6YKQXX-i_pnuAhwRiOEogCPcBGAYYCw/s640/2ndhk.jpg
Daily reminder that people in Hong Kong are begging for what we’re willing to throw away.
And every gun law or infringement has been discriminatory against the constitution and the American populace at large.
And yet, here we are.
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A brace does nothing to increase the lethality of whatever its on.
Braces get banned, stock is going on, I don't care anymore *shrug*
Five_Point_Five_Six
08-06-19, 19:50
"Oh bother" said Pooh as he chambered another round...
Braces get banned, stock is going on, I don't care anymore *shrug*
Be careful. No doubt some of the turncoat junior g men are frothing to do their patriotic duty.
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And every gun law or infringement has been discriminatory against the constitution and the American populace at large.
And yet, here we are.
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Show me where they are not legal
I would be worried more about magazines.
When I first saw one of those, I couldn't believe they weren't considered a SBR or AOW. I'm thinking that ATF will classify them soon.
Show me where they are not legal
You understand what regulatory authority is yes?
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sundance435
08-06-19, 20:50
I would be worried more about magazines.
In addition to more red flag nonsense, I could see 100 round mags and braces easily being the next bump stocks.
for those that think mags or braces will get hit up. What do you think it will be. Turn in or burn ? Grandfather clause ?
PB
grizzlyblake
08-06-19, 21:08
More people own ARs now than ever before. Biden says he will confiscate them if elected. Going to be interesting especially with how common legal parking lot sales are.
The_War_Wagon
08-06-19, 21:34
Braces get banned, stock is going on, I don't care anymore *shrug*
I like the cut of your jib... :cool:
This.
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-OI2pGRIhoKQ/XUlEi4mg4YI/AAAAAAAAAWc/E_bFiOefKnge6YKQXX-i_pnuAhwRiOEogCPcBGAYYCw/s640/2ndhk.jpg
Daily reminder that people in Hong Kong are begging for what we’re willing to throw away.
Thanks Outlander.. this should go viral as a reminder.
Braces get banned, stock is going on, I don't care anymore *shrug*
In my case last year, I bought a Galil Ace Pistol in 5.56. It had an IWI brace on it. Did the SBR application process the end of November and this year I put a folding stock on the thing. Much better for my taller frame. For all the folks who still have it with the brace, they would have to do some modifications like I did to remove the brace, then put a sling adapter rear end on it. That destroys some of the functionality the buyer had when they first purchased it, and you end up with something less than what you paid for.
Americans don't like to have some government bureaucrat issue some edict, proclamation or throw together law that takes away something of intrinsic value. It's like stealing.
I have always felt it wasn't a good idea to yell at the Feds or State authorities an intention to violate laws - whether justified or not. Kind of like the Moonshiner placing a sign along the highway pointing the way to his illegal Still down in some wooded hollow. Discretion in communications is a much better way to operate.
A brace does nothing to increase the lethality of whatever its on.
But short barrels give you more thrusts per trigger squeeze.
A brace does nothing to increase the lethality of whatever its on.
Neither do short barrels on rifles (or shotguns) and silencers.
Don't we have a thread where ATF just neutered the braces from being legally shouldered? That felt like a ban to me...
Don't we have a thread where ATF just neutered the braces from being legally shouldered? That felt like a ban to me...
Probably has as much validity in the real world as legislating or creating a rule that makes it illegal for some hood rat to not hold his "gat" horizontally, "gangsta style".
If the government is going to legislate style and form in firearms shooting, then they have gone over the edge into personal everyday freedoms, and the population will just place them on ignore.
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-z9vF7kT/0/0e3af52c/X3/i-z9vF7kT-X3.jpg
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It’s throughly weird pistol braces would be questioned. Why? Because anyone seeking to break the law with murder can break the law by installing a stock anyway. Why did he remain “compliant” while murdering? Was he thinking, “oh good, I won’t get that extra 10 years for a victimless crime of a stock to be added to my death penalty for mass murder”?
Better off a brace than a stock, for a pistol is less manageable than a rifle.
Same for magazines. I’d rather higher capacity than lower for a shooter for when the gun jams, the killer has deeer options on getting it running again.
It’s about the agenda on writing the regulations more than the reasoning on actual outcomes.
Doc Safari
08-07-19, 09:21
I've been surfing every liberal news outlet since the shootings. Mostly they are talking about an AWB and ban on hi cap magazines. Very few times have I heard mention of "that accessory."
The only people really talking about it are on the gun forums...THAT'S KNOWN AS A CLUE. SHUT THE EFF UP ABOUT IT.
It's difficult for most of the MSM to grasp how if it looks like a rifle it's really a pistol if it has a brace instead of a stock. It's much easier to keep repeating the "bullets spraying" meme instead of trying to explain when an SBR is not an SBR. If everybody just shuts up about it I don't think they are going to push for a ban on that....yet.
Five_Point_Five_Six
08-07-19, 10:44
Don't we have a thread where ATF just neutered the braces from being legally shouldered? That felt like a ban to me...
There may be a thread where people are being scared of shouldering them, but they have not said the brace can't be shouldered. Dudes are just scared of their own shadow.
It’s throughly weird pistol braces would be questioned. Why? Because anyone seeking to break the law with murder can break the law by installing a stock anyway. Why did he remain “compliant” while murdering? Was he thinking, “oh good, I won’t get that extra 10 years for a victimless crime of a stock to be added to my death penalty for mass murder”?
Better off a brace than a stock, for a pistol is less manageable than a rifle.
Same for magazines. I’d rather higher capacity than lower for a shooter for when the gun jams, the killer has deeer options on getting it running again.
It’s about the agenda on writing the regulations more than the reasoning on actual outcomes.
The ATF originally said they could be shouldered, then they said you couldn't. They were taken to court over it and lost and reversed their decision. In order for them to be banned or to be able to say they can't be shouldered, they needed to be used in a shooting so the public could be outraged over something they don't understand. *George Bush voice* "Mission Accomplished"
The only people really talking about it are on the gun forums...THAT'S KNOWN AS A CLUE. SHUT THE EFF UP ABOUT IT.
It's difficult for most of the MSM to grasp how if it looks like a rifle it's really a pistol if it has a brace instead of a stock. It's much easier to keep repeating the "bullets spraying" meme instead of trying to explain when an SBR is not an SBR. If everybody just shuts up about it I don't think they are going to push for a ban on that....yet.
THIS ^^. It seems like the hi cap mags are the hot issue right now, let's stop shining the proverbial light on braces too. And all the banter about shouldering/not shouldering braces and what is legal etc just reminds me how incredibly stupid the NFA is, and how badly it needs to be repealed.
Doc Safari
08-07-19, 11:40
THIS ^^. It seems like the hi cap mags are the hot issue right now, let's stop shining the proverbial light on braces too. And all the banter about shouldering/not shouldering braces and what is legal etc just reminds me how incredibly stupid the gun community is, and how badly it needs to be told to calm down.
FIFY as best I could.
So since a bare buffer tube can technically be shouldered then should those be banned too???? Again, this is nothing but another baby step towards total disarmament.
dwhitehorne
08-07-19, 15:23
The only people really talking about it are on the gun forums...THAT'S KNOWN AS A CLUE. SHUT THE EFF UP ABOUT IT.
It's difficult for most of the MSM to grasp how if it looks like a rifle it's really a pistol if it has a brace instead of a stock. It's much easier to keep repeating the "bullets spraying" meme instead of trying to explain when an SBR is not an SBR. If everybody just shuts up about it I don't think they are going to push for a ban on that....yet.
Yeah kind of like the mayor kept repeating the shooter had a two hundred and twenty three caliber rifle and then added it was really big. I assume she was briefed on this so that means to me the LEO that passed on the info and her staff had no idea what they were referencing when telling her the info. David
I posted this in another thread but just so we dont miss anyone:
News flash ---- Its August in DC. There ain't a soul around and they ain't coming back till September not to mention we are in presidential election politics. Let's add to that the senate majority leader, who is solid on the 2nd, is recovering from a fractured shoulder which I am sure hurts like hell and he probably wants to stay at home. Not to mention he rarely gives a damn what anyone says.
For those that dont know what any of that means, it means nothing going to happen.
ramairthree
08-07-19, 19:11
Everything is on the list all the time.
A sizable portion of society do not want you to hunt, target shoot, concealed carry, protect yourselves, be able to defend yourselves, etc.
A sizable portion of society will concur with and act on the above if it becomes law.
And all the banter about shouldering/not shouldering braces and what is legal etc just reminds me how incredibly stupid the NFA is, and how badly it needs to be repealed.
You're gonna want to be careful about the order in which you want that to happen. Repeal 1934 NFA and leave the 1968 GCA and 1986 FOPA intact and you could create a situation where NOBODY can own machine guns, SBRs, SBSs, etc.
The 1968 Gun Control Act made all imported machine guns, SBRs, SBSs and suppressors non transferable. Some jackass would simply add domestic suppressors, SBRs and SBSs to the Hughes provision within FOPA 86 and that would be that.
If we could get everyone to focus on eliminating the "sporter clause" (Hello NRA? This is your job right?) from the 1968 Gun Control Act then all of this nonsense goes away. Sporting applications would no longer be a criteria for importation or application of any firearm.
That is what we need to be shining the "proverbial light" on as much as we can. Sadly most gun owners don't even know it exists or what it does.
Everything is on the list all the time.
A sizable portion of society do not want you to hunt, target shoot, concealed carry, protect yourselves, be able to defend yourselves, etc.
A sizable portion of society will concur with and act on the above if it becomes law.
This is the reality of things. Many Americans really and truly believe "England is the model" not realizing this kind of crap is exactly why we aren't part of the UK and don't wish to be.
Idk why anyone would think the legality of braces is anything but temporary. And I say this as a brace owner.
It’s super convenient in my state because I can’t drive with a loaded rifle. I can a loaded pistol. There is a mag capacity restriction for hunting with a rifle, not with a pistol.
But, the end may be coming. My short uppers will be for my SBRs and I’ll build my pistol lowers into rifles. Or strip them down to spare rifle parts.
I have one non AR rifle pistol thing. A B&T apc223. I plan to form one this thing now as a precaution, but keep it configured as a pistol. If they outlaw braces I’ll just pop a stock on it. Good thing the turn around is so quick on e-file.
Doc Safari
08-08-19, 07:48
Why are we still talking about this? Dont you know the enemy is watching?
One of the things that gets missed here on the whole brace/shoulder thing is some of us actually work for the government. If shouldering a brace now constitutes a felony, that's a real problem for me with my clearance. I also think many on the forums have never had to deal with having a poly. It's real easy to yell wolverines and fade into the Homer Simpson bush when you don't have your life scrutinized under a microscope every few years. I love my job so its just part of the deal for me not turning pistols into NFA items without stamps.
I scoured the internet for any updates on the brace/shoulder letter that came out last month and did not see anything mitigating the not shouldering your brace ruling. If there is, would be great to see links to legitimate sources.
Doc Safari
08-08-19, 08:09
One of the things that gets missed here on the whole brace/shoulder thing is some of us actually work for the government. If shouldering a brace now constitutes a felony, that's a real problem for me with my clearance. I also think many on the forums have never had to deal with having a poly. It's real easy to yell wolverines and fade into the Homer Simpson bush when you don't have your life scrutinized under a microscope every few years. I love my job so its just part of the deal for me not turning pistols into NFA items without stamps.
I scoured the internet for any updates on the brace/shoulder letter that came out last month and did not see anything mitigating the not shouldering your brace ruling. If there is, would be great to see links to legitimate sources.
Sucks for you. Even more reason to keep this under the radar.
Right now the MSM is focusing on banning assault weapons completely. What will you do then? Focus on what they are actually talking about doing.
People worrying about this is just another indicator that we are turning into a nation of pussies.
Doc Safari
08-08-19, 08:17
People worrying about this is just another indicator that we are turning into a nation of pussies.
And the gun community is its own worst enemy. "Oh. Boo hoo, I better give up that accessory so I can still eat cheetos and watch porn in my mom's basement. Oh woe is me."
Hey Mack, if you're going to call someone a pussy why don't you just do it instead of taking the passive aggressive route.
Doc Safari
08-08-19, 08:21
Patrick Henry would spit on some so-called modern "Patriots."
I just hope the republiCANTS don’t take another baby step towards tighter gun laws again. Pretty soon we will baby step our way into confiscation...
Why are we still talking about this? Dont you know the enemy is watching?
I know it is early, but I think this is probably the funniest thing I'll read all day - you, starter of threads, admonishing folks not to skyline themselves.
Pot-kettle.
Five_Point_Five_Six
08-08-19, 12:54
One of the things that gets missed here on the whole brace/shoulder thing is some of us actually work for the government. If shouldering a brace now constitutes a felony, that's a real problem for me with my clearance. I also think many on the forums have never had to deal with having a poly. It's real easy to yell wolverines and fade into the Homer Simpson bush when you don't have your life scrutinized under a microscope every few years. I love my job so its just part of the deal for me not turning pistols into NFA items without stamps.
I scoured the internet for any updates on the brace/shoulder letter that came out last month and did not see anything mitigating the not shouldering your brace ruling. If there is, would be great to see links to legitimate sources.
There isn't. Shoulder your brace, take your polygraphs, and move on with life.
I know it is early, but I think this is probably the funniest thing I'll read all day - you, starter of threads, admonishing folks not to skyline themselves.
Pot-kettle.
Ok. I did lol at this.
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Doc Safari
08-08-19, 14:28
I know it is early, but I think this is probably the funniest thing I'll read all day - you, starter of threads, admonishing folks not to skyline themselves.
Pot-kettle.
Specific instances? I don't discuss things that send up flags to regulatory bodies that I'm aware of.
Specific instances? I don't discuss things that send up flags to regulatory bodies that I'm aware of.
Well, these are just examples from threads you've started which have been last commented on since May, 2019:
And This is How Civil Wars Begin....
The Rebellion: The Gun Control Non-compliance Trend
Bigger Fish to Fry? Or We Are Toast?
The Beginning of Hillary's "Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day?"
The LARPing Anti-Gun Punk Says He's Survived 7 Assassination Attempts
The Arrogance of the Anti-Gunners is Just Infuriating
Comey and Brennan are Filthy Pinko Commies
I really didn't have the gumption to go further into the 20 page list of threads you've started.
Doc Safari
08-08-19, 15:07
Well, these are just examples from threads you've started which have been last commented on since May, 2019:
And This is How Civil Wars Begin....
The Rebellion: The Gun Control Non-compliance Trend
Bigger Fish to Fry? Or We Are Toast?
The Beginning of Hillary's "Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day?"
The LARPing Anti-Gun Punk Says He's Survived 7 Assassination Attempts
The Arrogance of the Anti-Gunners is Just Infuriating
Comey and Brennan are Filthy Pinko Commies
I really didn't have the gumption to go further into the 20 page list of threads you've started.
And how do those "skyline" me for anything? Those are just discussion threads.
And how do those "skyline" me for anything? Those are just discussion threads.
LOL...
And how do those "skyline" me for anything? Those are just discussion threads.
There is no more a recognizable silhouette on the m4c GD skyline than your big ole hat.
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Doc Safari
08-08-19, 15:47
All the threads I've posted are to spark discussion, exchange of information. I'm somewhat of an amateur sociologist. These subjects are interesting in an academic sense. Anybody can see they are just informational.
ViniVidivici
08-08-19, 16:25
Patrick Henry would spit on some so-called modern "Patriots."
Amen.
Specific instances? I don't discuss things that send up flags to regulatory bodies that I'm aware of.
To be fair you do sound like AM talk radio most days.
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Doc Safari
08-08-19, 17:33
To be fair you do sound like AM talk radio most days.
This I have to plead guilty to.
I live on talk radio and it's bound to have an influence. But if what I post is "Skylining" then everyone on the gun forums is skylining.
I post stuff that I think will be entertaining and spark discussion, nothing more.
Back on topic: My point in this thread is not to bring up things the MSM hasn't even been talking about since Saturday. Don't give them ideas when there's a nationwide push for more gun laws; they have enough on their plate that we won't like.
Literally, I put the radio on during nearly every waking hour, and it went from "that accessory" being mentioned once or twice to it not even being brought up once since Saturday unless I missed a comment on the radio or something. I surf every liberal show on TV and Talkstreamlive and switch channels when they stop talking about guns.
The up-to-date reality as far as I can tell that the MSM is pushing:
1. Background checks
2. Ban assault weapons
3. High velocity bullets (although this one is already waning too)--I shouldn't even bring it up anymore I admit.
That's it. Again, even with my surfing I might have missed something, but I don't think so. It's too hot to do much at the ranch. I practice going into the shade and listen on my phone so I couldn't have missed much.
Back on topic: My point in this thread is not to bring up things the MSM hasn't even been talking about since Saturday. Don't give them ideas when there's a nationwide push for more gun laws; they have enough on their plate that we won't like.
Honestly, if you don't believe they have hired firearm experts to advise them you are just kidding yourself. They literally just have to talk to ATF to find out anything they want to know, including how best to restrict items that give them scary feelings.
ATF technology branch isn't exactly chock full of second amendment supporters. These are the same people writing goofy ass bumpstock determination letters. They aren't logged onto M4C to see what super neat ideas they can steal for the next laws. And the Feinstein crew will never bother to see what is what because they don't give a damn, they just keep trying to ban things with shoulder accessories that go up.
There's absolutely NOBODY in Congress saying "Hey everybody look at this website about guns and check out the amazing ideas they are talking about that we can make into restrictive legislation.
There are probably a few agencies that monitor the most active forums looking for certain buzzwords but given the dozens of times there was a ton of information on public facebook pages about intention to engage in mass attacks on innocent people I don't think they are all that effective. I'm hoping that is because they are spending more time looking at Johnny Jihad profiles but I'm not exactly holding my breath.
But I can assure you, they absolutely don't give a damn about this thread or anything in it, they aren't being paid to look at it. If they were really bored they "might" look at your civil war thread just for the LOLZ. I half suspect this website is probably blocked by a lot of places you fear because it's a "weapon forum."
Want to know why only Chris Hanson can catch child predators? Because most of the websites they used are blocked to most LE agencies so they don't look at porn all day. Unless they have a specific investigation going, they need to request and be granted access, otherwise a lot of cops will spend the day looking at porn and claim they are doing internet searches for predators.
I'd be curious to know how many of the members here who are LE can even login to this forum from work.
Honestly, if you don't believe they have hired firearm experts to advise them you are just kidding yourself. They literally just have to talk to ATF to find out anything they want to know, including how best to restrict items that give them scary feelings.
ATF technology branch isn't exactly chock full of second amendment supporters. These are the same people writing goofy ass bumpstock determination letters. They aren't logged onto M4C to see what super neat ideas they can steal for the next laws. And the Feinstein crew will never bother to see what is what because they don't give a damn, they just keep trying to ban things with shoulder accessories that go up.
There's absolutely NOBODY in Congress saying "Hey everybody look at this website about guns and check out the amazing ideas they are talking about that we can make into restrictive legislation.
There are probably a few agencies that monitor the most active forums looking for certain buzzwords but given the dozens of times there was a ton of information on public facebook pages about intention to engage in mass attacks on innocent people I don't think they are all that effective. I'm hoping that is because they are spending more time looking at Johnny Jihad profiles but I'm not exactly holding my breath.
But I can assure you, they absolutely don't give a damn about this thread or anything in it, they aren't being paid to look at it. If they were really bored they "might" look at your civil war thread just for the LOLZ. I half suspect this website is probably blocked by a lot of places you fear because it's a "weapon forum."
Want to know why only Chris Hanson can catch child predators? Because most of the websites they used are blocked to most LE agencies so they don't look at porn all day. Unless they have a specific investigation going, they need to request and be granted access, otherwise a lot of cops will spend the day looking at porn and claim they are doing internet searches for predators.
I'd be curious to know how many of the members here who are LE can even login to this forum from work.
This website is not blocked on any county or federal government computer that I have tried it on.
I’m not a cop.
This website is not blocked on any county or federal government computer that I have tried it on.
I’m not a cop.
It’s blocked on the Lifetime Fitness guest network along with any other gun related sites.
Doc Safari
08-09-19, 07:01
Honestly, if you don't believe they have hired firearm experts to advise them you are just kidding yourself. They literally just have to talk to ATF to find out anything they want to know, including how best to restrict items that give them scary feelings.
ATF technology branch isn't exactly chock full of second amendment supporters. These are the same people writing goofy ass bumpstock determination letters. They aren't logged onto M4C to see what super neat ideas they can steal for the next laws. And the Feinstein crew will never bother to see what is what because they don't give a damn, they just keep trying to ban things with shoulder accessories that go up.
There's absolutely NOBODY in Congress saying "Hey everybody look at this website about guns and check out the amazing ideas they are talking about that we can make into restrictive legislation.
There are probably a few agencies that monitor the most active forums looking for certain buzzwords but given the dozens of times there was a ton of information on public facebook pages about intention to engage in mass attacks on innocent people I don't think they are all that effective. I'm hoping that is because they are spending more time looking at Johnny Jihad profiles but I'm not exactly holding my breath.
But I can assure you, they absolutely don't give a damn about this thread or anything in it, they aren't being paid to look at it. If they were really bored they "might" look at your civil war thread just for the LOLZ. I half suspect this website is probably blocked by a lot of places you fear because it's a "weapon forum."
Want to know why only Chris Hanson can catch child predators? Because most of the websites they used are blocked to most LE agencies so they don't look at porn all day. Unless they have a specific investigation going, they need to request and be granted access, otherwise a lot of cops will spend the day looking at porn and claim they are doing internet searches for predators.
I'd be curious to know how many of the members here who are LE can even login to this forum from work.
I have inside information that, granted, is about 10 years old, that certain agents are assigned to monitor the internet for illegal activity. This came from someone who actually works or did work at that time for an alphabet soup agency.
Just sayin':
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-08-08/nsa-whistleblower-confirms-they-can-use-your-data-against-you-any-time
And:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/fbi-and-facebook-potentially-at-odds-over-social-media-monitoring-11565277021
An effort by the FBI to more aggressively monitor social media for threats sets up a clash with Facebook Inc. FB’s privacy policies and possibly its attempts to comply with a record $5 billion settlement with the U.S. government reached last month.
The Federal Bureau of Investigation is soliciting proposals from outside vendors for a contract to pull vast quantities of public data from Facebook, Twitter Inc. and other social media “to proactively identify and reactively monitor threats to the United States and its interests.”
My take: They're already doing it. They just want the official "okey-dokey" to keep doing it and not waste their own resources to do it.
Doc Safari
08-09-19, 07:43
Anyway it's back in the news so I guess we're screwed:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.npr.org/2019/08/08/748665339/the-pistol-that-looks-like-a-rifle-the-dayton-shooters-gun&ved=2ahUKEwi67dHl5_XjAhUqJTQIHfSRC64QFjAAegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw3PwIvEVykKPu_P0RCmjJJe
ATF spokesman wants these and all EBR's regustered..
Hilarious and true.
There is no more a recognizable silhouette on the m4c GD skyline than your big ole hat.
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I'm not far behind you.
Braces get banned, stock is going on, I don't care anymore *shrug*
McConnell on an assault weapons ban front and center in September on Breitbart.
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/08/08/mitch-mcconnell-assault-weapons-ban-front-and-center-in-senate/
Anyway it's back in the news so I guess we're screwed:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.npr.org/2019/08/08/748665339/the-pistol-that-looks-like-a-rifle-the-dayton-shooters-gun&ved=2ahUKEwi67dHl5_XjAhUqJTQIHfSRC64QFjAAegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw3PwIvEVykKPu_P0RCmjJJe
ATF spokesman wants these and all EBR's regustered..
A former employee is not a spokesman, no matter how the writer tries to color it. The antis are in full AWB mode, they are not going to let a speedup like braces slow their momentum.
Doc Safari
08-09-19, 09:10
A former employee is not a spokesman, no matter how the writer tries to color it. The antis are in full AWB mode, they are not going to let a speedup like braces slow their momentum.
Piecing together info from a bunch of different sources, I get the idea that a ban on braces, or forcing one to register a pistol as an SBR--maybe even registering all "assault weapons"-- is either being added or has been added to a proposed AWB to be voted on in Congress.
There has been talk ATF might force pistols to be registered by fiat, and I guess that's still a possibility, but scuttlebutt I'm getting is that it's going to go the legislative route.
Of course all of this could be 100% wrong or could change ten minutes from now.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190809/bdd1edbeac8cdd0391feaf5bd56e1dd5.jpg
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This website is not blocked on any county or federal government computer that I have tried it on.
I’m not a cop.
I can get on this and ARfcomm so it’s agency dependent.
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Please cite the "talk", if you can. I believe they would have to change the definition of a "pistol" in the NFA for that to happen. If they decide to classify a brace as a stock, then the brace/stock comes off and you still have a pistol. If they go for a feature ban, it'll have to happen in Congress.
Piecing together info from a bunch of different sources, I get the idea that a ban on braces, or forcing one to register a pistol as an SBR--maybe even registering all "assault weapons"-- is either being added or has been added to a proposed AWB to be voted on in Congress.
There has been talk ATF might force pistols to be registered by fiat, and I guess that's still a possibility, but scuttlebutt I'm getting is that it's going to go the legislative route.
Of course all of this could be 100% wrong or could change ten minutes from now.
Doc Safari
08-09-19, 10:07
Please cite the "talk", if you can. .
It's just the crap you hear all over the internet and different radio stations on Talkstreamlive, AM radio, and podcasts. I listen to so many and literally surf this stuff during all my waking hours that I just listen and read and put together my own impressions of what's bullshit and what's likely. Sorry if the way I phrased it made it sound more likely than it is. I'll repeat that most of the sources I'm listening to or reading are saying the likelihood is that registering pistols as SBR's or anything else is probably just another bullet point in legislation before Congress. That seems to be the overall impression being put out by the various sources I listen to.
Of course, as my disclaimer usually goes: That could turn out to be 100% wrong or could change ten minutes from now.
I believe they would have to change the definition of a "pistol" in the NFA for that to happen. If they decide to classify a brace as a stock, then the brace/stock comes off and you still have a pistol. If they go for a feature ban, it'll have to happen in Congress
I happen to agree with you, but, "bumpstocks."
So there might be a gray area.
The positive thing is it's not all over the media that "we've got to ban braces" like the clarion call to get rid of bump stocks.
The thrust seems to be: background checks and assault weapons ban.
I've visited several audio and internet sites just today saying the assault weapons ban is probably a non-starter even if McConnell says it's front and center.
You do have to kinda pick and choose what to believe, and you also have to realize that what people say to the cameras is not necessarily what they really will do.
The whole background check thing is a farce since we already have NICS. What have they got left? Private sales must go through NICS and maybe giving NICS access to mental health records?
It's all smoke and mirrors. "Look how much we care about this!" And when Congress returns in September it will all die the death.
That is...
....unless there's another mass shooting.
This website is not blocked on any county or federal government computer that I have tried it on.
I’m not a cop.
Yet, it's blocked at several major airports I have visited in this country. I don't typically use their WiFi anyway, but I do if I can't hotspot to my phone.
Well, still. Bumpstocks or braces, these thing come off and you still have the host weapon be it pistol, carbine or what have you. I know you're not arguing and neither am I, but I think it's good to be clear that the ATF can only do so much. I'm actually more worried about state-level bans, if anything.
And there will be another mass shooting. Shit seems to be ramping up. Either medications are wearing off or they are working TOO well.
Doc Safari
08-09-19, 16:02
A former employee is not a spokesman, no matter how the writer tries to color it. The antis are in full AWB mode, they are not going to let a speedup like braces slow their momentum.
Bad phrasing on my part. He's actually now a consultant and a criminal justice professor and USED TO BE with ATF. I read that article about two minutes after rolling out of bed and turning my phone on this morning so I was still a little bleary-eyed.
The price on SBA3’s is down to $79 bucks. That’s the lowest I’ve ever seen them. Could be that venders are going to unload them just in case they go by way of the bump stock.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
08-09-19, 19:38
I have always said, always, that someone will use a pistol with a brace in of these shootings and DJT will ban them by EO. I have a slick little CZ Scorpion with a brace, and I was worried about spending the $250 on the brace when I did for just this reason. DJT is no friend of the 2A, this is not 4D Chess or w/e the apologists like to say. So many gun accessories can seemingly be outlawed with a pen stroke or a new ATF interpretation.
Bad phrasing on my part. He's actually now a consultant and a criminal justice professor and USED TO BE with ATF. I read that article about two minutes after rolling out of bed and turning my phone on this morning so I was still a little bleary-eyed.
Wasn't criticising you, I get tired of media painting ex-military/FBI/ATF etc. as representing the organization.
Andy
This website is not blocked on any county or federal government computer that I have tried it on.
I’m not a cop.
I can get on this and ARfcomm so it’s agency dependent.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Good to know. Guess things are improving.
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