View Full Version : New to Red Dot Sights: Questions for the Experienced
I just put a 2 MOA red dot on my M4gery. I have not sighted it in yet. It co-witnesses with the A2 front sight and the BUIS rear sight (if the rear is flipped up). I also have an extender that will raise it a half inch if I want to.
Question: It it better to have the red dot co-witness with the front sight, or raise it a bit so it clears the front sight?
I like a lower 1/3 co-witness, just to get the optic up a little higher (Larue). But co-witness in general is a good thing because if your optic takes a crap or your battery dies at an inopportune time, you can still get hits up close with no delay using the optic as a ghost ring.
I just put a 2 MOA red dot on my M4gery. I have not sighted it in yet. It co-witnesses with the A2 front sight and the BUIS rear sight (if the rear is flipped up). I also have an extender that will raise it a half inch if I want to.
Question: It it better to have the red dot co-witness with the front sight, or raise it a bit so it clears the front sight?
To me co-witness is overrated. If you are using a RDS correctly you are looking way past the front sight. The best way to learn how to shoot a dot sight is with the front cap down or taped up. Fit a mount the correct height for the way you shoot and don't worry about Co-witness.
To me co-witness is overrated. If you are using a RDS correctly you are looking way past the front sight. The best way to learn how to shoot a dot sight is with the front cap down or taped up. Fit a mount the correct height for the way you shoot and don't worry about Co-witness.
That's what I was thinking. I already have a Magpul BUIS rear sight installed, and sighted in. If the red dot quits, I can flip that up and keep on going.
Are we talking about lollypopping the dot on the front sight post, or are we talking about being able to use your irons through the optic?
Are we talking about lollypopping the dot on the front sight post, or are we talking about being able to use your irons through the optic?
Little of both. The way the factory red dot setup is, it puts the red dot right atop the front sight. What I need to know is, is this necessary or desirable? Could I use the red dot better if I raised the optic a bit, so it didn't co-witness?
I can use the irons through the optic if necessary in either position.
If your RDS isn't a piece of junk that's guaranteed to fail, there's little benefit to absolute co-witness.
Having said that, it sounds like you've already got the spacer so you can test this yourself. Feel free to try both heights and use the method you like. There's no wrong answer.
So let me get this straight...
You’ve been a member here for 11 YEARS and you just now put your first red dot on a rifle? Better late than never.
So let me get this straight...
You’ve been a member here for 11 YEARS and you just now put your first red dot on a rifle? Better late than never.
Right. I finally got a 6920.
Previous rifles were A2 fixed carry handle. If it was good enough for Col. Moore at Ia Drang, it was good enough for me.
Believe we need to make sure we are on the same page.
Co-witness simply implies that you can see your irons through the optic. There are different co-witness heights. Absolute co-witness where the irons are centered in the optic tube and lower third co-witness where the irons are in the lower third of the optic. The decision on which is better is a personal preference thing. For "Me", I like a lower third. This places my irons in the bottom of the optic allowing me some space around the dot and thus my target that is uncluttered. Most mounts will be one or the other (absolute or lower third) very few have spaces that allow you to do both. You will need to decide which works for you. With a 6920 one of these heights will work fine.
A quick note on red dot use as you are apparently new(ish) to them. You do not need to align the dot with your sights when shooting with a dot. Simply put the dot on the target, position of the irons is irrelevant. It is a good idea to try and keep the dot as close to the center of the optic as possible to reduce chances of paralax. I am in no way trying to "talk down" to you in any way I have simply seen many shooters who are new to dots who think they need to align the dot with the irons. The only time I do this is when obtaining my initial zero on a newly installed dot optic as it gives you a gross zero to start with.
Hope this is helpful and good luck with the new gun and optic.
Thanks, Joe.
Yes, I knew the red dot is independent of the iron front sight. The sight I have lines up perfectly with the top of the A2 sight post when the dot is centered in the optic. I need to sight it in and experiment a bit to see if the front sight is a help or a hindrance.
sniperfrog
08-11-19, 09:28
To me co-witness is overrated. If you are using a RDS correctly you are looking way past the front sight. The best way to learn how to shoot a dot sight is with the front cap down or taped up. Fit a mount the correct height for the way you shoot and don't worry about Co-witness.
Some people, like me, can’t do this. When I close the cover on a red dot I get a large shift in how I see the dot. Yes, I’m using both eyes open with a target focus but for whatever reason the dot will shift about a foot to the right at 10yards. If I put the rifle in a rest and put the dot center mass and just open and close the cover I can see the dot shift back and forth. I’ve seen the term phoria used to describe this but I’m not sure that’s accurate. I’ve seen a lot of others that have the same problem.
I have no problem using an RDS with both eyes open. I shoot high magnification scopes with both eyes open. But close the front lens cover and I ain’t hitting anything.
Mysteryman
08-13-19, 11:24
Some people, like me, can’t do this. When I close the cover on a red dot I get a large shift in how I see the dot. Yes, I’m using both eyes open with a target focus but for whatever reason the dot will shift about a foot to the right at 10yards. If I put the rifle in a rest and put the dot center mass and just open and close the cover I can see the dot shift back and forth. I’ve seen the term phoria used to describe this but I’m not sure that’s accurate. I’ve seen a lot of others that have the same problem.
I have no problem using an RDS with both eyes open. I shoot high magnification scopes with both eyes open. But close the front lens cover and I ain’t hitting anything.
Phoria is the phenomenon. Basically it refers to your eyes alignment. With the cap closed your non sighting eye is the sole source of spatial data. If your eye alignment is out of wack then you will have a poi shift.
Thanks, Joe.
Yes, I knew the red dot is independent of the iron front sight. The sight I have lines up perfectly with the top of the A2 sight post when the dot is centered in the optic. I need to sight it in and experiment a bit to see if the front sight is a help or a hindrance.
On one hand, being able to put the dot on top of the sight post helps illuminate parallax because you are keeping the dot in a consistent point in the sight.
On the other hand, deliberately lining up the dot and front sight also defeats the advantages of a red dot, especially from unconventional shooting positions.
I prefer a lower 1/3 (taller) mount to the (mostly) co-witness my factory AP PRO mount offers. The taller mount allows me to look over the sights and the sight picture seems less cluttered. Both allow the use of iron sights with no issue.
Andy
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