View Full Version : Is the Glock 19 still king of the hill?
I have recommended the Glock 19 to many friends and family over the years if they were looking at buying a glock. Since Glock has released several new models in the past couple years, have any of them knocked the 19 off it's pedestal? Both the 19X/G45 and 48 seem to be doing really well. And for smaller form factor it's hard to go wrong with the G43 or 43X. Personally I think the 45 shoots a lot better than the 19, but I'm by no means an expert on the subject. I plan to continue recommending the 19 to new shooters, but I think I am also going encourage them to shoot the other new Glock models and see for themselves which model they like best.
All of them have their own pros and cons, but the Glock 19 is still the best one-size-fits-all option.
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Don't the 19x and 19mos have their own magazines as well as aftermarket sights that fit? Also, doesn't the 19x and others need their own kydex holster; i.e. a gen 3 or 4 holster won't fit if going the kydex route?
I still like the gen 3 and 4 19's for their simplicity. The new age 19's, while maybe not just a fad, serve their owners specifically for their purpose. The plain G19 serves a gun owner, new or experienced, as being a good gun. period. Don't hesitate to recommend it.
If a person wanted a Glock to carry but would never carry it in anything but a pocket I'd recommend a Glock 42.
If they did plan to carry on a belt I'd say G48. (I've only held one, not fired one)
If they thought it was too thin, or wanted more rounds, or more weight, then I'd suggest the G19 with no front cut out.
There are better guns than the Glock 19. Many, many guns. It isn’t the most concealable. It isn’t the most accurate. It isn’t the most durable. Nor most reliable. It isn’t the softest shooting gun. It certainly isn’t the most ergonomic. But it does check many, many boxes and it is economical. It is hard to beat overall.
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I have to say that since I have switched to CZ P07, my Glock 19's just sit in the safe.
Don't the 19x and 19mos have their own magazines as well as aftermarket sights that fit? Also, doesn't the 19x and others need their own kydex holster; i.e. a gen 3 or 4 holster won't fit if going the kydex route?
I still like the gen 3 and 4 19's for their simplicity. The new age 19's, while maybe not just a fad, serve their owners specifically for their purpose. The plain G19 serves a gun owner, new or experienced, as being a good gun. period. Don't hesitate to recommend it.
The main difference as far as holster fit goes is the ambi slide release. Some low cut 19 holsters work fine with the gents, but others do not. I'm not sure if this is as big an issue with leather, but for kydex it's probably a good idea to find a 19gen5/45 specific holster.
The sight height on gen5s are also different and there are gen5 specific sights. You can use gen1-4 sights but your POA/POI won't be the same.
Best pistol?
Dunno.
What I do know is if someone is not wed to ANY platform ask the person to try the CZ P10C as it is a better overall pistol than the Glock 9mm platform.
Where the Glock shines is it is established and parts and accessories can be sourced... anywhere.
I also find the VP9 to be a better pistol overall.
Each individual will have to decide what is important to THEM.
This will seem contradictory at face value but it’s true just the same:
“Better is not necessarily better.”
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I dont know if its the “best”, but it does everything decently.
Its a total package, jack of all trades option.
Cheap and easy to fix and maintain, I still think its one of the best starter pistols.
It will never hold you back.
Yes.
Name another pistol that has been around for more than 10 years with the following the G19 has.
Yes.
Name another pistol that has been around for more than 10 years with the following the G19 has.Longevity on the market doesn't make a pistol the best. Using this criteria the 1911 and Browning Hi-Power reign supreme.
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From an accuracy and reliability/durability perspective. It's hard to beat the Gen 5 glocks, and the FBI solicitation would appear to back that up. Not to mention, you can customize the gun to your hearts content. IF you have even the most minor of issues. They are guns that do something particularly well over glock. But nothing does everything, at as high a level as the new glocks. Though a DA/SA CZ is a want for me right now.
Guys, the OP asked "which Glock" not "which pistol" to reccomend.
I usually recommend to people to go to a gun store and fiddle with glocks and M&Ps until they find a model that fits well in their hand and points naturally.
Mysteryman
08-13-19, 11:15
Yes, Glock 19.
tacticaldesire
08-13-19, 11:21
Yes, the 19 is still the best "can't go wrong" option as far as Glocks go. I myself am a fan of the G45 but if I had to recommend a "do all" handgun to someone it would be the G19.
Before the gen 5 I’d say others were as good or better, but now with the gen 5 I feel the only 19 sized gun on the market that is as good, but not better, is the CZ P10C
ramairthree
08-13-19, 11:36
The Glock 19 is king of the Hill the way say, a Toyota 4 Runner is king of the USA SUV hill.
You can find a a better off road vehicle, tower, more luxurious, more powerful, better full time AWD, bigger one, roomier/more seating, smaller one, daily driver that rides better, better transmission, mpg, better spare location, etc.
But the overall cost, reliability, resale, overall jack of all trades and numbers makes it a
Just get a 4Runner and be done with it
Type of recommendation.
You can find a better 9mm for gun games, CC, HD, better trigger, better pointability, better bore axis, etc.
And as much as I like some other guns better, for both objective and subjective reasons,
But as a jack of all trades at any price, let alone its price point,
You will often hear,
Just get a g19 and be done with it.
If I was really put on the “you can only have one handgun for everything for the rest of your life” spot,
Taking everything into account,
For all uses, parts, mags, gear availability, etc.
A G19 gen5 MOS with threaded barrel and NS and light could fill ALL roles better than any other single pistol I have.
Now that there is a non-MOS FS G19 without the frame cutout I’m considering another G19 having sworn off new Glocks, and new pistols, for that matter. That setup with an added Agency AOS cut seems very attractive. Throw in a trigger and call it a day.
I do have two G45s and they are excellent guns but I would prefer less grip for CCW.
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I swore off Glocks too and only have one now.
But i like the way the G48 felt and would like to have one with an RDS.
I haven't owned an RDS pistol yet.
I REALLY want one for my Vz61 but there isnt a good mount system yet.
southswede
08-13-19, 14:53
Yes.
Name another pistol that has been around for more than 10 years with the following the G19 has.
1911.
I think the G19 is a good choice for a do-all type pistol. Especially at it’s price point and with the aftermarket support it has.
noonesshowmonkey
08-13-19, 15:28
The Gen5 Glock 19 is hands down the finest production sidearm currently being built. If the 19 doesn't fit your criteria, chances are good that a 17, 45, 26, or 43 will.
The latest runs with front slide serrations solve that particular problem in the design.
Gen 5s have ambidextrous slide locks/releases.
Gen 5s have aggressive texturing like Gen4s, not quite as rough as an RTF, but not a bar of soap like Gen1-3.
Gen 5s have high visibility followers and extended baseplates, which are aftermarket mods made production level.
FBI sights have all but eliminated the "glocks have shitty sights" problem, as if having to choose from as many aftermarket sight variations as could possibly tickle your fancy was ever a "problem".
Simply put, the latest Gen 5 Glocks, especially the 19s with front serrations and FBI sights, are turn-key pistols that do damn near everything right. After purchase, the only thing they need is a steady diet of ammo.
I can't say the same thing about any of the competitor pistols without caveats of this or that type (holsters, RMR, after market sights, magazine costs, etc. etc. etc.), which is why the Glock 19 remains the king.
Personally I’m looking forward to the CBP contract guns coming to the market (hopefully they do). I want G47.
As to the 19 in general. No other pistol checks all the boxes of needs to be fulfilled all the while being the most utilitarian pistol on the market.
We live in a Glock world and for good reason
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I own the hammer-fired classics (P226, USP, 92FS, CZ 75, BHP and 9mm 1911) but recently rented examples of every striker fired pistol our local range had. They were all so similar that "what's best?" isn't the correct question. More like "which flavor?"
The Gen5 Glock 19 is hands down the finest production sidearm currently being built. If the 19 doesn't fit your criteria, chances are good that a 17, 45, 26, or 43 will.
The latest runs with front slide serrations solve that particular problem in the design.
Gen 5s have ambidextrous slide locks/releases.
Gen 5s have aggressive texturing like Gen4s, not quite as rough as an RTF, but not a bar of soap like Gen1-3.
Gen 5s have high visibility followers and extended baseplates, which are aftermarket mods made production level.
FBI sights have all but eliminated the "glocks have shitty sights" problem, as if having to choose from as many aftermarket sight variations as could possibly tickle your fancy was ever a "problem".
Simply put, the latest Gen 5 Glocks, especially the 19s with front serrations and FBI sights, are turn-key pistols that do damn near everything right. After purchase, the only thing they need is a steady diet of ammo.
I can't say the same thing about any of the competitor pistols without caveats of this or that type (holsters, RMR, after market sights, magazine costs, etc. etc. etc.), which is why the Glock 19 remains the king.
Finest production handgun? That may be a stretch...
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The_War_Wagon
08-13-19, 18:28
Is the Glock 19 still king of the hill?
That would be a very SMALL and OBSCURE "hill" indeed... :no:
1911.
I don't think there are the same number of folks who run 1911's hard, as there are Gock 19's or 17's.
In terms of keeping one running without a lot of support, much easier task on a Glock.
Then there is the whole 'two is one, one is none' thing.
Finest production handgun? That may be a stretch...
I kind of agree with that, but.......
I think the Glock 17, so by extension the Glock 19, was the first pistol that you could legitimately say was capable of operator level armorer service.
Kind of set the bar for that.
I dunno. I shoot USPSA a couple times a month. In production, I see usually one or two Glocks; typically there will be a 19 or 17, and often 34.
I see lots of CZ pistols; probably more than anything.
I see lots of Berettas, too. There has been a huge resurgence in DA/SA including a few Sig P226s.
Just because there is a lot of chest-thumping about Glock online doesn’t mean that’s all there is or even that it’s king of the hill. Hell, the P320 has become quite popular. The local gun shop states it’s probably their best selling series.
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Oh, I forgot to mention, yeah we have lots of die hard 1911 guys locally! I mean like a safe full and shooting thousands upon thousands of rounds a year.
Glock seems to have a following but I’d wager, like everything, most Glock owners are casual shooters.
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556BlackRifle
08-13-19, 19:33
I have several 9mm handguns but my favorite for carry is my Gen5 G19. Mine has a TLR8 attached and I carry it IWB most of the time. Accuracy wise it's plenty accurate for self defense. Every time I try something different, I keep coming back, so yeah, it's my king of the hill. YMMV.
I dunno. I shoot USPSA a couple times a month. In production, I see usually one or two Glocks; typically there will be a 19 or 17, and often 34.
I see lots of CZ pistols; probably more than anything.
I see lots of Berettas, too. There has been a huge resurgence in DA/SA including a few Sig P226s.
Just because there is a lot of chest-thumping about Glock online doesn’t mean that’s all there is or even that it’s king of the hill. Hell, the P320 has become quite popular. The local gun shop states it’s probably their best selling series.
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Comparing USPSA guns to anything besides other gamer guns doesn’t mean much - even for production.
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El Pistolero
08-13-19, 20:48
Glock 19s are ok. The Walther PPQ has been my go-to for a while now.
Comparing USPSA guns to anything besides other gamer guns doesn’t mean much - even for production.
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+1
And the gear doesnt matter as long as its reliable. Its mostly preference.
I burn a lot of guys (with a stock 19mos+rmr - carryoptics) down that have $2,000 open guns and I am NOT good.
The guys that beat me every weekend would still take my lunch if we traded hardware. A few of them run production guns.
People buy uspsa guns because its what they want and is good for gaming. Not many people will cc a stock2
The 19 fits most people, unless you have huge hands. If you have small hands, make sure you can reach all the controls before buying.
I have many Glocks, CZ's, HK's, Ruger, and assorted 1911's that I enjoy shooting and care for as my children, maybe better......But when I carry, take a class or need to be 100% buttoned up, it's my original Glock 19 I bought in NJ (17 wasn't legal in NJ) in the 90's. 10's of thousands of rounds, with OEM mags still in the rotation (new springs of course and many other mags as well). Been using it so long it's just second nature.
While I recommend to everyone, I understand it's not for everyone, but at least 51% of everyone.
Comparing USPSA guns to anything besides other gamer guns doesn’t mean much - even for production.
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As was said above, someone stated nobody is running anything hard like they do G19s. That’s bogus. USPSA shooters run their stuff harder than Timmy’s and the CCW crowd.
All the gun trainer celebs are modifying their G19s to the point it’s hard to argue they are Glocks anymore.
Yes, lots of stock 2s and shadows in uspsa production but lots of other guns that ARE being CCW’ed including Glocks, Sigs, Berettas, P-series CZs, M&Ps, etc.
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The main things the Glock have going for it are capacity, reliability, aftermarket parts, and mechanical simplicity which translates to ease of maintenance. There was a time when only Glock really checked all of those boxes at the same time. IMO that's what got them into early service adoption and why they now own the market--just continuing their momentum. But fortunately competition never ends, and other pistols have kept moving forward. The Glock is no longer in a class by itself, to me. Lots of pistols can check all those boxes of capacity, reliability, aftermarket parts, and ease of maintenance, and some now throw in having improved ergos, better factory triggers, and better accuracy.
Now, they still are solid pistols and still have the largest market share, but there are a lot more options. My favorite gun to shoot is still and always will be a 1911, but mine are now relegated to range shooting, and for now at least, it's unlikely I'd return to carrying a 1911. Only thing that might change that is something like 10rd mag restrictions in my state, or I go on a 'nostalgia fad' for carrying my 1911's again. :-) For 'practical' everyday carry, I've switched to the M&P (Compact, and Shield) and the Gen2 M&P's are the best all-around modern design pistols I have owned or fired. They are phenomenal value to me, I strongly prefer them to the Glock mainly on how well I shoot them and features. Also the M&P's come in at a lower price to boot. That doesn't take anything away from Glock, it's just to say there are choices and people and departments should shop around. My local PD switched to M&P's and IMO was a good call.
M&P9 2.0
HK VP9
Do what the G19 can do, except with proper grip angle.
MountainRaven
08-13-19, 22:28
M&P9 2.0
HK VP9
Do what the G19 can do, except with proper grip angle.
Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle.
:lol:
As was said above, someone stated nobody is running anything hard like they do G19s. That’s bogus. USPSA shooters run their stuff harder than Timmy’s and the CCW crowd.
That was me. I kind of need to walk that statement back upon further reflection. Thinking too much of my own little slice of heaven. Carry on.
titsonritz
08-14-19, 02:33
I kind of agree with that, but.......
I think the Glock 17, so by extension the Glock 19, was the first pistol that you could legitimately say was capable of operator level armorer service.
Kind of set the bar for that.
That is one of the biggest reasons I went with Glocks in the first place and still is. Are there any other pistols that has every factory part available to the end user like Glock? I'm still in the "stone-age" with 3rd Gens and see no reason to change.
M&P9 2.0
HK VP9
Do what the G19 can do, except with proper grip angle.No, they don't. The 2.0 comes close but I think you'll find a 5th gens will have significantly more mechanical accuracy then the M&P. Several large federal agencies and the Army have tested the M&P 2.0 alongside the gen 5 Glocks and the P320's and all of them chose one of the latter. I don't have the money to conduct large scale testing like they do, so I choose to take them at face value that there was a reason for that decision. Another thing that irks me is the need to remove the rear sight to disassemble the slide.
The VP9 is about the same size as a G17. It has no significant adoption here in the US, although quite a few major German agencies have picked it up, so I won't ding it too many point there. That said, if we are comparing it to a G19, it is significantly larger with the same magazine capacity. I've never understood the whole grip angle thing. I've been able to go back and forth between Glocks and other pistols with few issues. I think it's much less pronounced on the 19 then on other glocks anyhow.
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No, they don't. The 2.0 comes close but I think you'll find a 5th gens will have significantly more mechanical accuracy then the M&P. Several large federal agencies and the Army have tested the M&P 2.0 alongside the gen 5 Glocks and the P320's and all of them chose one of the latter. I don't have the money to conduct large scale testing like they do, so I choose to take them at face value that there was a reason for that decision. Another thing that irks me is the need to remove the rear sight to disassemble the slide.
The VP9 is about the same size as a G17. It has no significant adoption here in the US, although quite a few major German agencies have picked it up, so I won't ding it too many point there. That said, if we are comparing it to a G19, it is significantly larger with the same magazine capacity. I've never understood the whole grip angle thing. I've been able to go back and forth between Glocks and other pistols with few issues. I think it's much less pronounced on the 19 then on other glocks anyhow.
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I own several VP9s and Glocks. The VP9 fits between the G19 and G17. Many guys with larger hands have trouble with their pinky hanging off the G19. The VP9/PPQ etc seem to fix that.
At this point, I don’t think the VP9 will become America’s LE gun, we seem to be leaning Sig as the Glock predecessor.
Seems the smash hit G19X and G45 were nothing more than VP9 clones in the grand scheme of things. While I think the VP9 is a better pistol than the G45, the sheer number of Glocks and logistics keep Glock viable. I’m like most dudes, heavily invested in Glock. But if I were starting new today, I don’t think that blanket statement of “get a Glock” means what it used to.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190814/028f8e665739b28299745ff482c4af81.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190814/603e3053a2a1d2962fe791846b6f3c24.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190814/c206ad6ced7581338bdb685378ccd042.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190814/cf17ad4a66ceb088abb8ac6af291ae94.jpg
Oh, we forgot to mention the biggest advantage of Glock for the CCW’er: safety. The double-action striker-fired pistol won’t have the P320-style drop issues inherent in fully and partially tensioned strikers found in other models. Plus, there’s the gadget.
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As was said above, someone stated nobody is running anything hard like they do G19s. That’s bogus. USPSA shooters run their stuff harder than Timmy’s and the CCW crowd.
All the gun trainer celebs are modifying their G19s to the point it’s hard to argue they are Glocks anymore.
Yes, lots of stock 2s and shadows in uspsa production but lots of other guns that ARE being CCW’ed including Glocks, Sigs, Berettas, P-series CZs, M&Ps, etc.
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Fair point.
M&P9 2.0
HK VP9
Do what the G19 can do, except with proper grip angle.
I used to think so too until I realized Glock’s grip angle helps reduce muzzle flip.
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The G19 is reliable, proven, concealable, and has plenty of OEM and aftermarket parts and ancillary gear available. Armoring is simple, mags are cheap, and it is an accurate gun.
Other guns can surpass Glock in some of these categories, but not all of them; there’s usually a trade-off.
I don’t see it as the king of the hill, but more of a “gold standard”.
Looking for a concealable gun- start with the G19 and scale up or down.
Need capacity- more or less than 15 rounds
Shootability- does the G19 shoot well for you or do you want to go bigger at a possible expense of concealment?
Holster selection- everything starts with the G17/19 combo, with or without an optic or light. S&W, HK, and Sig will be closing the gap, but it seems like everything else is getting to niche or semi-custom orders.
New shooter- rent a G19 and then figure out what you want.
It’s not king of the hill (though it’s my go-to), but it’s the standard against which others are judged, and for good reasons.
titsonritz
08-14-19, 11:41
The G19 is reliable, proven, concealable, and has plenty of OEM and aftermarket parts and ancillary gear available. Armoring is simple, mags are cheap, and it is an accurate gun.
Other guns can surpass Glock in some of these categories, but not all of them; there’s usually a trade-off.
I don’t see it as the king of the hill, but more of a “gold standard”.
Looking for a concealable gun- start with the G19 and scale up or down.
Need capacity- more or less than 15 rounds
Shootability- does the G19 shoot well for you or do you want to go bigger at a possible expense of concealment?
Holster selection- everything starts with the G17/19 combo, with or without an optic or light. S&W, HK, and Sig will be closing the gap, but it seems like everything else is getting to niche or semi-custom orders.
New shooter- rent a G19 and then figure out what you want.
It’s not king of the hill (though it’s my go-to), but it’s the standard against which others are judged, and for good reasons.
That's a good way to put it. Glock is to pistols as Colt 6920 is to ARs, the measuring stick.
ramairthree
08-14-19, 19:05
Fair point.
I used to think so too until I realized Glock’s grip angle helps reduce muzzle flip.
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At the expense of pointability and natural alignment.
Glock is popular DESPITE their grip angle, not because of it.
In the same way, say, a Land Cruiser has fans despite its MPG, nobody wants it because of the MPG.
Alaskapopo
08-14-19, 19:39
I use the Glock 19 as an off duty carry in the winter and a glock 48 in the summer. If I had to just pick one handgun for everything from home defense to CCW I would take the 19 because of the light rail and added magazine capacity. But if the 48 had a light rail it would be a tough choice.
At the expense of pointability and natural alignment.
Glock is popular DESPITE their grip angle, not because of it.
In the same way, say, a Land Cruiser has fans despite its MPG, nobody wants it because of the MPG.
Its all about training and what you get used tooI prefer the Glock grip angle especially at close range. That said I prefer the Gen 4/5 grip angle with no grip attachments to the Gen 1-3.
Pat
Oh, we forgot to mention the biggest advantage of Glock for the CCW’er: safety. The double-action striker-fired pistol won’t have the P320-style drop issues inherent in fully and partially tensioned strikers found in other models. Plus, there’s the gadget.
What is this gadget you speak of?
I carry the M&P9. It's like a Ford F150.
But I shot a buddy's VP9. That gun's a Maserati. Way cool. Tempted to pick one up before any ban on "Police-Style Assault Pistols."
I honestly dont notice a difference in angle between a g19 and m&p, and believe the issue is blown way out of proportion.
Edit-...if you practice (includes dry fire).
This has been a far more interesting thread than I expected. I got my question answered and then some! It makes more sense to me now that the G19 is the standard by which others are judged/compared to.
I plan to keep recommending the 19 to new shooters interested in Glocks with a heavy emphasis to at least also try the 48, 45, 17, and 43/43X because all are excellent choices. For non Glock people or new shooters that want a cheaper option I am going to continue recommending the S&W Shield or M&P series. There are plenty of other choices, but the main takeaway is that everyone should get out and try several different guns before making a choice. Then practice practice practice!
What is this gadget you speak of?
The striker control device which replaces the Glock striker plate. Installed, it provides tactile indication that the trigger is being pulled much like the hammer on a DA/SA.
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I honestly dont notice a difference in angle between a g19 and m&p, and believe the issue is blown way out of proportion.
Edit-...if you practice (includes dry fire).
I can go between them interchangeably. However, when I run Glock hard I can feel the difference in grip angle in my strong side elbow and wrist.
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...it’s the standard against which others are judged, and for good reasons.
I think this is the right answer.
The Glock 19 isn’t my favorite handgun by a long shot. It isn’t even in my top three or four favorite Glocks. For my body type and modes of carry the 19 is just a little too large for many situations, and in those for which it is appropriate I can carry the 17 just as easily. Perhaps this is the reason I own multiples of most other 9mm Glocks but only one 19. It probably doesn’t help that the only Glock I’ve owned that malfunctioned with disturbing regularity just happened to be a Gen 3 Glock 19. It was a rare lemon, yet my bias—fair or not—remains.
With all that said, if someone asked me “what pistol should I buy?” with no additional information I’d probably answer, “Glock 19.” It is small enough to conceal without too much fuss, yet it shoots about as well as a “full-size” service pistol. The gun and its magazines are inexpensive. Holsters, parts, and accessories are easy to come by, and any fumble-fingered klutz who can watch a YouTube video can do anything that needs to be done to it.
Its trigger is mediocre, it isn’t the most accurate, other guns are just as reliable, its stock sights are hated by virtually everyone, it feels like a 2x4 when you grab it for the first time, it is butt ugly, and nobody is going to “like” your Instagram photo of it unless you spend more money than the gun’s MSRP on mods and geegaws.
But it is still the gun against which other guns in its class are compared.
titsonritz
08-14-19, 23:32
What is this gadget you speak of?
https://taudevgroup.myshopify.com/products/striker-control-device
At the expense of pointability and natural alignment.
To the Glock novice, sure. It took me some time and I had a love hate with mine for a while. Now, I don’t see a reason for any other handgun (aside from a 1911 for American reasons).
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m1a_scoutguy
08-14-19, 23:55
https://taudevgroup.myshopify.com/products/striker-control-device
When holstering you put your thumb on the plate and it stops the striker from moving which blocks the trigger from moving. Should help with ND if you aren't paying attention to re-holstering and maybe your shirt is hanging out etc. Most people think they need to reholster as fast as they draw and thats where problems can arrise !
Anyways like everyone says the Glock 19 is pretty much the go-to 1st gun I would recommend and many others would do the same for new shooters getting into shooting/training/EDC. Is it the best, maybe yes, maybe no, is it for ME, NO, I always wanted one and finally got one, Gen4. I had it about 3 months put over 500rds through it then sold it ! I would take a CZ 07 any day over the 19,guess thats why I have 2 of them. Bottom line the 19 is a great gun and will do 100% of what anypone asks of it and it will do it in any and all situations/weather/temps etc ! Mags are cheap,parts are cheap, tons of stuff you don't need is avalabile for the 19 & any Glock for that matter,so buy with confidence shoot the hell out of it clean it and move on,its gonna be there for ya ! Thats my 2cents worth. ;)
But with that said,I'm going and picking up a used 19X tomorrow for $400 bucks,,,how can you go wrong,LOL !
Everyone's still trying to jump on that bandwagon:
https://www.stoegerindustries.com/str-9
Gary1911A1
08-15-19, 11:09
I use the Glock 19 as an off duty carry in the winter and a glock 48 in the summer. If I had to just pick one handgun for everything from home defense to CCW I would take the 19 because of the light rail and added magazine capacity. But if the 48 had a light rail it would be a tough choice.
I think you are going to get your wish on the Glock48 getting a rail. https://www.gunsweek.com/en/pistols/news/new-glock-43x-and-glock-48-pistols-now-rails
DAVID RICHARDS
08-15-19, 17:17
Glock has all the free advertisements that police wear so many of them in their holsters. Glocks have been far from perfect. The GEN 4 thing was a huge problem. They seem to of finally for the most part fixed. But they have been through all manner of "upgrades" over the years. I still like and sometimes carry my G19. And if someone likes and wants one I have no problem with that.
But my M&P 2.0's have been rock solid reliable. Better ergonomics. Better trigger. And cost less than the newer Glocks. Same with the PPQ. Still decent guns. But I would have someone try others first before the G19.
p.s. the reason I still like my G19 is it has been modified to fit my tastes. Lots of Glocks parts are added to give them better ergo's, trigger, sights and so on. So yo basically end up with a Glock version of the M&P 2.0, SIG 320, etc..
Alaskapopo
08-15-19, 19:11
Glock has all the free advertisements that police wear so many of them in their holsters. Glocks have been far from perfect. The GEN 4 thing was a huge problem. They seem to of finally for the most part fixed. But they have been through all manner of "upgrades" over the years. I still like and sometimes carry my G19. And if someone likes and wants one I have no problem with that.
But my M&P 2.0's have been rock solid reliable. Better ergonomics. Better trigger. And cost less than the newer Glocks. Same with the PPQ. Still decent guns. But I would have someone try others first before the G19.
Really better trigger on a M&P that has not been my experience in fact with my friends who like M&P's the trigger is the first thing to go. The Glock is the standard and in my opinion still the best.
Glock has all the free advertisements that police wear so many of them in their holsters. Glocks have been far from perfect. The GEN 4 thing was a huge problem. They seem to of finally for the most part fixed. But they have been through all manner of "upgrades" over the years. I still like and sometimes carry my G19. And if someone likes and wants one I have no problem with that.
But my M&P 2.0's have been rock solid reliable. Better ergonomics. Better trigger. And cost less than the newer Glocks. Same with the PPQ. Still decent guns. But I would have someone try others first before the G19.
What about the Gen 4 was a problem? The M&Ps trigger is absolutely not better than the Glocks. Once upgraded with all Apex parts, I don’t think there’s an aftermarket glock trigger that can compare, but the stock M&P trigger shoe is terrible. Also Gen 1 M&Ps had far more issues than any Glock.
p.s. the reason I still like my G19 is it has been modified to fit my tastes. Lots of Glocks parts are added to give them better ergo's, trigger, sights and so on. So yo basically end up with a Glock version of the M&P 2.0, SIG 320, etc..
How do you modify a Glock to be a version of either of those?
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Really better trigger on a M&P that has not been my experience in fact with my friends who like M&P's the trigger is the first thing to go. The Glock is the standard and in my opinion still the best.
Glock the best trigger? In what time way?
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Alaskapopo
08-15-19, 19:48
Glock the best trigger? In what time way?
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I did not say the best trigger of all the striker guns, but better than an M&P for sure. The PPQ is better for the trigger.
Pat
Alaskapopo
08-15-19, 19:50
What about the Gen 4 was a problem? The M&Ps trigger is absolutely not better than the Glocks. Once upgraded with all Apex parts, I don’t think there’s an aftermarket glock trigger that can compare, but the stock M&P trigger shoe is terrible. Also Gen 1 M&Ps had far more issues than any Glock.
How do you modify a Glock to be a version of either of those?
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Agreed would not want my Glock to be anything like a Sig 320 or the M&P or have any of the issues those pistols have had.
Mysteryman
08-15-19, 20:28
Glock has all the free advertisements that police wear so many of them in their holsters. Glocks have been far from perfect. The GEN 4 thing was a huge problem. They seem to of finally for the most part fixed. But they have been through all manner of "upgrades" over the years. I still like and sometimes carry my G19. And if someone likes and wants one I have no problem with that.
But my M&P 2.0's have been rock solid reliable. Better ergonomics. Better trigger. And cost less than the newer Glocks. Same with the PPQ. Still decent guns. But I would have someone try others first before the G19.
Glock pistols are ergonomic, others are simply bastardized "upright" 1911 style grips which are not ergonomic and do nothing for consistent grip or recoil management. Glock triggers are predictable with a positive reset. Don't be too eager to compare a SINGLE ACTION striker fired pistol to the DOUBLE ACTION Glock design. Apples to Oranges.
I did not say the best trigger of all the striker guns, but better than an M&P for sure. The PPQ is better for the trigger.
Pat
You literally said “still the best”.
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Glock pistols are ergonomic, others are simply bastardized "upright" 1911 style grips which are not ergonomic and do nothing for consistent grip or recoil management. Glock triggers are predictable with a positive reset. Don't be too eager to compare a SINGLE ACTION striker fired pistol to the DOUBLE ACTION Glock design. Apples to Oranges.
Why can’t one compare them? They are polymer, striker-fired pistols used for service and ccw? It is natural to compare them.
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Alaskapopo
08-15-19, 20:58
You literally said “still the best”.
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Why can’t one compare them? They are polymer, striker-fired pistols used for service and ccw? It is natural to compare them.
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The pistol overall. Trigger is not everything
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The pistol overall. Trigger is not everything
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Ah the way you worded it made it sound like you believe Glock to be the best trigger.
I’d still disagree it is the best overall pistol.
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Alaskapopo
08-15-19, 22:51
Ah the way you worded it made it sound like you believe Glock to be the best trigger.
I’d still disagree it is the best overall pistol.
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Lots of good choices these days.
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ViniVidivici
08-16-19, 10:34
I carry one every day, so it's king of the hill for me.
I like it, and the Glock 17, for all the obvious reasons.
Insofar as we are talking about what the 'gold standard' is, G19 probably stands as the established all-around champion. I would also say that many of the others mentioned have become equals, they simply haven't been better enough to dethrone the Glock. For my results I like the VP9, and given that the prices have fallen to be more competitive, I would encourage any new shooter to take it for a test drive before defaulting to the Glock.
Lots of good choices these days.
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That's really the only right answer in this thread. I like my m&p 2.0's quite a lot, I love my VP9, I like the gen 5 glock 45 a lot.
Glock isn't king of the hill anymore. There are a lot of really good options that'll work for everyone right now.
I started out with a full size Springfield XDM but after about a year of that nonsense, I switched to the Glock 19. If someone were to ask my recommendation for their first handgun, I would say Glock 19. It has a proven track record and I think the Glock offers uniformity and familiarity for novice shooters. I believe they are the gold standard for striker fire pistols.
The Dumb Gun Collector
08-17-19, 13:37
It's a reasonably good pistol. If it came out in the market as a new gun and for some reason all the other choices where already there I seriously doubt it would be competitive. It has probably the worst ergonomics in the field. It has a middling at best trigger, and one that you have a a chance of having to replace if the trigger bar is flawed like my previous Gen 5 (I haven't shot my current one enough to see if it will be an issue again).
What it has is brand recognition and the reputation for durability and reliability that was largely earned by Gen 3 Glock 17s. People say they have a long track record but they really don't The Gen 5 Glock 19 is not a Gen 4 or Gen 3 Glock any more than a P2000 is the same thing as a USP 9mm compact.
That being said, the Gen 19 did not just get here. Inexplicably it had the category of mid sized 9mm nearly all to itself for decades (other than absurdly overpriced SIG and HKs that usually were heavier and had lower capacity). The G19 is phenomenally well packaged. Until the M&P 2.0 compact came out I really don't think it had a straight-up competitor in the goldilocks 9mm category.
Oh but yes, they are still the king of the hill.
Business_Casual
08-17-19, 14:17
It's a reasonably good pistol. If it came out in the market as a new gun and for some reason all the other choices where already there I seriously doubt it would be competitive.
In all, a very reasonable and thoughtful appraisal of the G19, the world’s most ubiquitous handgun.
What about durability and ease of maintenance? Where are you placing those factors in the evaluation? I would put them ahead of the ergos and trigger.
It's a reasonably good pistol. If it came out in the market as a new gun and for some reason all the other choices where already there I seriously doubt it would be competitive. It has probably the worst ergonomics in the field. It has a middling at best trigger, and one that you have a a chance of having to replace if the trigger bar is flawed like my previous Gen 5 (I haven't shot my current one enough to see if it will be an issue again).
What it has is brand recognition and the reputation for durability and reliability that was largely earned by Gen 3 Glock 17s. People say they have a long track record but they really don't The Gen 5 Glock 19 is not a Gen 4 or Gen 3 Glock any more than a P2000 is the same thing as a USP 9mm compact.
That being said, the Gen 19 did not just get here. Inexplicably it had the category of mid sized 9mm nearly all to itself for decades (other than absurdly overpriced SIG and HKs that usually were heavier and had lower capacity). The G19 is phenomenally well packaged. Until the M&P 2.0 compact came out I really don't think it had a straight-up competitor in the goldilocks 9mm category.
Oh but yes, they are still the king of the hill.
The Gen 5 does have a long track record, it’s probably the most tested Glock.
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Been carrying the Glock 19 for years as my EDC. The 3 Glocks that I own are all gen 3 models. 17,19,34. Great pistols that just keep on going strong.
The Dumb Gun Collector
08-17-19, 15:44
Business casual ,
What about durability and ease of maintenance? Where are you placing those factors in the evaluation? I would put them ahead of the ergos and trigger
Not me, unless we were talking about VAST differences which we are not. I’m not equipping conscripts.
Was it ever king of the hill?
It's a reasonably good pistol. If it came out in the market as a new gun and for some reason all the other choices where already there I seriously doubt it would be competitive. It has probably the worst ergonomics in the field. It has a middling at best trigger, and one that you have a a chance of having to replace if the trigger bar is flawed like my previous Gen 5 (I haven't shot my current one enough to see if it will be an issue again).
What it has is brand recognition and the reputation for durability and reliability that was largely earned by Gen 3 Glock 17s. People say they have a long track record but they really don't The Gen 5 Glock 19 is not a Gen 4 or Gen 3 Glock any more than a P2000 is the same thing as a USP 9mm compact.
That being said, the Gen 19 did not just get here. Inexplicably it had the category of mid sized 9mm nearly all to itself for decades (other than absurdly overpriced SIG and HKs that usually were heavier and had lower capacity). The G19 is phenomenally well packaged. Until the M&P 2.0 compact came out I really don't think it had a straight-up competitor in the goldilocks 9mm category.
Oh but yes, they are still the king of the hill.
Glad I'm not the only one who says that. I never liked the ergos of Glocks, but the 19 is bad even for Glock for me.
The Dumb Gun Collector
08-17-19, 16:11
Glad I'm not the only one who says that. I never liked the ergos of Glocks, but the 19 is bad even for Glock for me.
Honestly, I really just keep one around so I help other people who are learning to shoot. I wouldn’t cry if it was my only gun, but no way would I pick it for that purpose. But, if I was equipping a bunch of officers with mixed training or an army of middle eastern conscripts I might go with it. Actually no I would still pick gen 3 Glock 17s
If a glock employee read Greg's post, he would definitely label Greg a hater.
Glock 19 is king and will be for the foreseeable future. While there may be a few pistols that some of us like better, none of them are legitimate challengers to the crown. Glock's and the 19 variant have joined 1911's, AR-15's, and 10/22's as true lego platforms. When another maker reaches that level of aftermarket support, then we can have a discussion about who's king.
Eurodriver
08-19-19, 15:46
The Glock 19 is the best selling pistol in America.
Source: https://improb.com/best-9mm-pistols-and-handguns/
When I go to a LGS or check online sites I can find used .40s for $229. I can find M&Ps, CZs, and all the other Glock clones with deep discounts right now.
Good luck finding a G19 red label for much less than $499. In fact, if you do, let me know. I’ll buy a couple.
I bought an M9A3 a few weeks ago as my only other handgun besides my Glock 19s. It’s accurate, but it’s also for sale. Can’t even give it away for 7 bills! No one wants anything but G19s outside of people being different on the internet.
I now have four PFC9s as well and with those there is no excuse for “ergos”. The PFC9 is amazing.
CESwartz07
08-19-19, 16:06
The G19 is still the best do everything glock.
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The Glock 19 is the best selling pistol in America.
Source: https://improb.com/best-9mm-pistols-and-handguns/
[...]
No one wants anything but G19s outside of people being different on the internet.
Sure they do. Do you know what is the source of that article's claim about the G19?
From another source, the top 10 semiauto handgun sales for all of 2018 (like all metrics, they have their limitations, these are based on Gunbroker sales but surely it's one interesting source of data given volume of sales). G19 is not even in the top 10 for all 2018. In fact, G19 has not been in the top 5 in GB pistol sales in any month in 2019 either, and was not in the top sales list since 2017 acc to those data.
https://www.gungenius.com/top-selling/January2018-December2018
From another source, the top 10 semiauto handgun sales for all of 2018 (like all metrics, they have their limitations, these are based on Gunbroker sales but surely it's one interesting source of data given volume of sales).
Those GunBroker stats are fun to look at but I question if they accurately reflect the top selling models at retail. Within 50 miles of my location we have (3) Cabela's, (3) Gander Outdoors, Sportsman's Guide, and well over two dozen independent dealers. You can walk into every one of these places and put your paws on a Glock 19 at a price that's competitive online or offline. Several of the dealers will have Glock 19's in just about every configuration currently available to include distributor exclusives. If they didn't sell a lot of Glock 19's they wouldn't tie up the shelf space or inventory dollars.
Possible, but you aren't offering any alternative data--that's what would be most useful to get a more accurate picture to counter-balance the GB data.
Second, it doesn't really matter if there are alternative sources of sales does it? GB data alone is noteworthy--it's the world's largest online seller of firearms. Even if its numbers are not absolute or differ from direct retail sales results, their sales are massive, and more than enough to respond to the idea that nobody is really interested in buying pistols other than G19's.
There may be niche guns that the average person will never get full use put of, but anything else is a Glock cover band or a status symbol or a fashion statement
Business_Casual
08-20-19, 15:57
Sure they do. Do you know what is the source of that article's claim about the G19?
From another source, the top 10 semiauto handgun sales for all of 2018 (like all metrics, they have their limitations, these are based on Gunbroker sales but surely it's one interesting source of data given volume of sales). G19 is not even in the top 10 for all 2018. In fact, G19 has not been in the top 5 in GB pistol sales in any month in 2019 either, and was not in the top sales list since 2017 acc to those data.
https://www.gungenius.com/top-selling/January2018-December2018
Retail vs. agency purchases might put a different spin on it.
Retail vs. agency purchases might put a different spin on it.
The point I was replying to was about what individual buyers are actually buying--not agency sales and not total market share. If you look at that data, G19 isn't even in the top 10 in sales from Jan 2018 thru now on GB. Again, that's not the total of all pistols sold, but it definitely means a lot of people are buying a lot of pistols other than G19's.
The point I was replying to was about what individual buyers are actually buying--not agency sales and not total market share. If you look at that data, G19 isn't even in the top 10 in sales from Jan 2018 thru now on GB. Again, that's not the total of all pistols sold, but it definitely means a lot of people are buying a lot of pistols other than G19's.
As a metric though I’d say individual purchases are useless as most purchasers are unwashed troglodytes who buy into crap like “grip zones”.
Given the essence of this forum we should be more focused on shooters.
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You're assuming that you know that people who buy guns don't shoot them--a big assumption. Some don't, some do, on real world observation. But do you know exactly what percentages of the owners of all types of pistols shoot them versus those who don't? I don't.....
Also you're wandering from the issue at hand, which was the desirability of G19's versus other pistols in the first place. People are buying other pistols, and G19's are just not as dominant as they once were in the semiauto pistol market. Goes right to the point of this thread.
There may be niche guns that the average person will never get full use put of, but anything else is a Glock cover band or a status symbol or a fashion statement
This couldn’t be further from the truth. I guess in a Twitter world, flyby one liners rule the roost. People don’t actually use their own brains.
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You're assuming that you know that people who buy guns don't shoot them--a big assumption. Some don't, some do, on real world observation. But do you know exactly what percentages of the owners of all types of pistols shoot them versus those who don't? I don't.....
Also you're wandering from the issue at hand, which was the desirability of G19's versus other pistols in the first place. People are buying other pistols, and G19's are just not as dominant as they once were in the semiauto pistol market. Goes right to the point of this thread.
It would appear we have differing opinions on the state of the American population.
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sundance435
08-20-19, 19:06
The point I was replying to was about what individual buyers are actually buying--not agency sales and not total market share. If you look at that data, G19 isn't even in the top 10 in sales from Jan 2018 thru now on GB. Again, that's not the total of all pistols sold, but it definitely means a lot of people are buying a lot of pistols other than G19's.
Most of those “Top 10”s are recently released stuff. I’m also not sure how they arrive at those numbers - is it total shipped to distributors? Shipped to dealers? Either way that doesn’t mean they’re actually selling well unless they’re on for several months. G19 has been in there numerous times, too. There’s no doubt in my mind that year-over-year sales put the G19 at or very close to the top when averaged out.
You're assuming that you know that people who buy guns don't shoot them--a big assumption. Some don't, some do, on real world observation. But do you know exactly what percentages of the owners of all types of pistols shoot them versus those who don't? I don't.....
Also you're wandering from the issue at hand, which was the desirability of G19's versus other pistols in the first place. People are buying other pistols, and G19's are just not as dominant as they once were in the semiauto pistol market. Goes right to the point of this thread.
You’re making a huge assumption to get to your point based on nothing more than “Top 10” lists that lack any kind of context themselves. See above - no doubt the G19 is probably the top selling handgun (excepting maybe the Ruger LCP) of the last 5-10 years. But, that’s just my assumption. And, anecdotally, a majority of people I know who own guns, especially handguns and ARs, shoot them once a year or less - probably no more than 100 rounds at a time.
PatrioticDisorder
08-20-19, 19:16
What about the Gen 4 was a problem?
Erratic ejection/brass to the face. Some say it is non issue, but I’d argue if you happen to catch brass to the eyeball it could be a significant problem. I have not heard of or seen the problem in Gen5s (including and starting with the 43, technically not Gen5 but sort of is).
It would appear we have differing opinions on the state of the American population.
Oh my own observation I think is pretty similar to yours--a lot of people buy guns and then don't shoot them. And the demographic of a lot of the gun buying public--I won't bother trying to make any bogus estimate at % because I can't possibly know, but it's all too many that I've seen--seems to be the kind of knuckle-dragging group you mention.
I think where we differ is that I don't see Glock pistol owners as being exempt from those same patterns. I personally know owners of Glocks, H&K's, M&P's, Sigs, and CZ's, who buy them for whatever motives (SHTF prepperism, mall ninja-ism, military wannbe-ism, or whatever other silly motive).
Coming back to point of the thread, I think a better way for OP to ground this discussion--and future discussions of the 'which pistol to get' type--would be to set some specific criteria and ask people for feedback on that. Either data that they can find and share, or their own experience. Rather than these kind of of vague, wide-open questions that invite trolling and subjective responses. There's all kinds of interesting discussions we can have around that. What has the widest agency adoption, and what are the trends there? What has the widest civilian adoption--what are people actually getting? What has the best trigger pull, and more important, how do you measure/decide that? What is most reliable, how do you measure that? Same Q with accuracy. And then the whole interesting-but-subjective area of ergos.
I'd be more interested in almost any of those discussions around more specific criteria and how the pistol shoots compared to other leading pistols. But it seems like a few of the comments here have drifted into the mode of any gun owners who don't shoot Glocks are retarded fudds who aren't serious about shooting, no other pistol is a serious pistol, etc. I think we can do better than that, here on M4c.
Erratic ejection/brass to the face. Some say it is non issue, but I’d argue if you happen to catch brass to the eyeball it could be a significant problem. I have not heard of or seen the problem in Gen5s (including and starting with the 43, technically not Gen5 but sort of is).
I assume that you’re guessing that’s what he’s referring to? That would’ve been my only guess too, but to call it a huge problem in an older model and then go on about how M&Ps are so great seemed kind of stupid.
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I also had crummy Gen 4 guns. Three of them.
I believe NSSF (?) stated the P365 was the best selling pistol of last year.
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Marine Corporal
08-21-19, 03:38
Based on the fact that the majority of police departments have successfully fielded them and continue to field them without any major issues, I would say that the answer is yes. They are still King of the Hill.
They make guns that work. All the checklists as far as feeding and firing reliably are checked off. All other companies copy their basic principle and add little gadgets and do dads and say that they are innovating. I mean really? Is adding a flat faced trigger innovating? Is adding a cutout on the bottom of a mag well innovating? Who here is going to change everyday from a full sized frame to a compact sized frame like the 320. Most people will just buy 2 guns. One full sized and one compact. That’s a gimmick that many bought into.
Eurodriver
08-21-19, 08:24
This is my fault, but I think we got into the sales figures unnecessarily.
Is a Hyundai Sonata “better” than a Mercedes E class?
Nah. But what do you think they sell more of?
I’m not comparing the G19 to a Benz (It’s more like a Camry, in utilitarian terms) but illustrating that the highest # of sales isn’t necessarily useful at determining what’s “best”.
Is anyone really going to argue that a Keltec is better than a Glock? Because according to GB, their pistol outsells G19s.
OMG its just a gun.
The only place I really hear complaints about Glock is on forums.
Ergonomics: Boo hoo its a standard pistol
Brass to Face: Has never happened to me ever.
"I just hate Glock": Proof racism is alive and well because Glocks are either black or brown.
I LOVE Glock because I can pick it up and go and not think twice about it.
Ergonomics: Boo hoo its a standard pistol
Nope--not even close to AR level of standard. Wide adoption due to past dominance for reasons discussed earlier in thread: sure. This is way different from having a real standard like milspec for AR's. And oh yeah, Big Army, they went with Sig, right?
Ergonomics *does* matter. People should find a pistol with a grip, recoil signature, and trigger that enables them to shoot well. If you're in an LE/.mil group that runs them, obviously your options are limited. For the rest of us, it's great to have options and the Glock isn't even in my top 5.
OMG its just a gun.
The only place I really hear complaints about Glock is on forums.
Ergonomics: Boo hoo its a standard pistol
Brass to Face: Has never happened to me ever.
"I just hate Glock": Proof racism is alive and well because Glocks are either black or brown.
I LOVE Glock because I can pick it up and go and not think twice about it.
If it’s “just a gun”, then why so many to defend their ho...errr...it’s honor every time somebody says something bad about them or that they don’t share your love of them?
If it’s just a gun, why so passionate? You’re definitely passionate here.
You’ve never been murdered, so I guess nobody has ever? Logic 101. Yeah people have had bad Glocks in the past. Many of them. Didn’t even the first run of FBI guns have some major problems? Our state police switched to Gen 5 17s and their entire batch had to go back to Glock because the barrel finish was defective. Glock isn’t perfect.
Glock is a descent gun that any idiot can use. Well, unless you’re a weak-wrist person with little grip strength or upper body strength. It’s just a gun. No less, no more. Don’t act like somebody pissed in your Cheerios just because somebody prefers something other than Glock.
Maybe we can find a magical authoritarian commie land where everybody can only have Glock 19s, 6920s, and drive 1996 Honda Civics. Everybody will drink Bud Light and listen to REO Speedwagon on loop.
Now we can all have a nice day? [emoji23]
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Switch REO Speedwagon to Van Halen and you have described Heaven, sir.
Switch REO Speedwagon to Van Halen and you have described Heaven, sir.
LOL, now ur talkin'.
Switch REO Speedwagon to Van Halen and you have described Heaven, sir.
I almost said Van Halen.
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OMG its just a gun.
The only place I really hear complaints about Glock is on forums.
Ergonomics: Boo hoo its a standard pistol
Brass to Face: Has never happened to me ever.
"I just hate Glock": Proof racism is alive and well because Glocks are either black or brown.
I LOVE Glock because I can pick it up and go and not think twice about it.
To your point, too many people think ergos means “feels good”.
As long as you can reach the controls, you are good.
Most people would be better shooters if they got a g19, focused on shooting and forgot about gear for just 1 year.
But no, they keep changing pistols more often than they shoot them. I really dont care what people shoot as long as they can.
Glock is good to go out the box and can grow with you easily, should you get into competition, silencers, etc. others can as well, but options are limited, especially with holsters.
Marine Corporal
08-21-19, 15:15
People complain about Glocks grip angle but most that draw and point find that Glock’s grip angle allows the front sight to be dead on as far as alignment goes. With guns that have other grip angles, after the draw, the front sight has to be dipped up or down slightly.
MountainRaven
08-21-19, 23:49
Nope--not even close to AR level of standard. Wide adoption due to past dominance for reasons discussed earlier in thread: sure. This is way different from having a real standard like milspec for AR's. And oh yeah, Big Army, they went with Sig, right?
Ergonomics *does* matter. People should find a pistol with a grip, recoil signature, and trigger that enables them to shoot well. If you're in an LE/.mil group that runs them, obviously your options are limited. For the rest of us, it's great to have options and the Glock isn't even in my top 5.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The guys who actually use their pistols have been getting and are continuing to get Glocks.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The guys who actually use their pistols have been getting and are continuing to get Glocks.
I hear that repeated all the time but I don’t think you can make such a case. Repeating some sort of elitist superiority because of chosen pistol is juvenile. Sometimes you need to get out of your bubble.
Run by a USPSA match and you’ll see guys running nearly any brand you can think of...and there will be high round count guns. One guy I know has been shooting an XD for ten years with around 10,000 rounds a year on it. He cracked the slide around 70,000 rounds.
Hell, I’m shooting two CZs I got earlier this year and I’m at 20,000 on them in six months and I dry-fire an hour four times a week. I put 14k on a VP9 in two years time back a few years ago.
Swing over to pistol forum and you’ll see guy putting lots of rounds on Beretta 92s and PX4s. There’s a few guys running HKs and CZs hard there, too.
Go read BEnos and see all the CZs, Tanfos, 2011s, etc people are putting rounds on. There is a whole world outside of Colt and Glock.
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¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The guys who actually use their pistols have been getting and are continuing to get Glocks.
I hear that repeated all the time but I don’t think you can make such a case.
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Why not? It’s a fact. Not only that, it’s well known that Sig only own the Army contract because they undercut the price.
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JFTDC Just buy a G19 or a G17 and get a life
ViniVidivici
08-22-19, 10:28
I guess we're lucky, we've never gotten brass to the face in thousands of accumulated rnds through gen3 G19s, a gen3 G23 sometimes converted to 9mm, and a gen4 G19.
Van Halen's lame.
The second semi-auto I ever owned was a G19 Gen2 back in the early 90's. I traded a vintage BHP for it on the recommendation of a good shooting buddy. I really wanted to like it and I practiced with it for over a year but it just didn't work out for me. I finally had to admit I shot revos and the old BHP better. So I sold it. Later I bought one of the rough texture models with the old fish gill slide cuts. Again I wanted to like it but as before, I had to admit, I shot my DA CZ and Beretta 92 better. I still think from time to time I may try one again because it's such a nice size package but I'm busy now with AR's and carbine shooting.
A great pistol no doubt but not for everyone.
Mysteryman
08-22-19, 10:39
I hear that repeated all the time but I don’t think you can make such a case. Repeating some sort of elitist superiority because of chosen pistol is juvenile. Sometimes you need to get out of your bubble.
Run by a USPSA match and you’ll see guys running nearly any brand you can think of...and there will be high round count guns. One guy I know has been shooting an XD for ten years with around 10,000 rounds a year on it. He cracked the slide around 70,000 rounds.
Hell, I’m shooting two CZs I got earlier this year and I’m at 20,000 on them in six months and I dry-fire an hour four times a week. I put 14k on a VP9 in two years time back a few years ago.
Swing over to pistol forum and you’ll see guy putting lots of rounds on Beretta 92s and PX4s. There’s a few guys running HKs and CZs hard there, too.
Go read BEnos and see all the CZs, Tanfos, 2011s, etc people are putting rounds on. There is a whole world outside of Colt and Glock.
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Who cares what gamers use.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The guys who actually use their pistols have been getting and are continuing to get Glocks.
There's a good collection of BTDT types and SME's here and elsewhere who don't particularly like Glocks, a few of whom and posted in this thread. I"m no BTDT type, but I often recommend Glocks to newbies as a good option, even if I don't particularly like them recognizing their strong points as good all around choices for many.
There's a good collection of BTDT types and SME's here and elsewhere who don't particularly like Glocks, a few of whom and posted in this thread. I"m no BTDT type, but I often recommend Glocks to newbies as a good option, even if I don't particularly like them recognizing their strong points as good all around choices for many.
100% agree with that.
MountainRaven
08-22-19, 11:15
There's a good collection of BTDT types and SME's here and elsewhere who don't particularly like Glocks, a few of whom and posted in this thread. I"m no BTDT type, but I often recommend Glocks to newbies as a good option, even if I don't particularly like them recognizing their strong points as good all around choices for many.
I don't particularly like Glocks, either. But we live in a Glock world. Every gun that's supposed to be the Glock-killer has failed to dethrone them. None of them have even come close - and there's something to be said for Glock showing up firstest with the mostest.
I'm a snowflake, so I don't normally carry one (and don't always own one). But I recognize the myriad benefits of them and understand why people who know tend to choose them. Doesn't mean it's what I prefer to carry and doesn't mean Glock isn't the king of serious, hard-use handguns.
I don't particularly like Glocks, either. But we live in a Glock world. Every gun that's supposed to be the Glock-killer has failed to dethrone them. None of them have even come close - and there's something to be said for Glock showing up firstest with the mostest.
Truth, and the thread isn’t about what everyone here likes or wants to be king of the hill. It’s about who is king of the hill and while there may be a bunch of other guns out there with a following, you have to add several of them up to get to the level of Glock. It’s why I decided to suck it up and stick with them, and now I’m happy that I did.
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Adrenaline_6
08-22-19, 12:55
People complain about Glocks grip angle but most that draw and point find that Glock’s grip angle allows the front sight to be dead on as far as alignment goes. With guns that have other grip angles, after the draw, the front sight has to be dipped up or down slightly.
I think that is another individual characteristic. Some people will be dead on, some not. I found that my HK P30 pointed low on draw with the medium backstrap and medium side panels. Changed to the Large one - Bingo - on the money. I just found what left and right sides straps went well with the large backstrap for me. Comfortable as all get out. You can't do that with a G19.
Truth, and the thread isn’t about what everyone here likes or wants to be king of the hill. It’s about who is king of the hill and while there may be a bunch of other guns out there with a following, you have to add several of them up to get to the level of Glock. It’s why I decided to suck it up and stick with them, and now I’m happy that I did.
Oh please. :rolleyes: Sorry, but with all due respect, no this doesn't hold water. Haven't seen one shred of proof to back up any of that in this thread--just raw assertions unsupported by facts. My perennial favorite--which a handful of Glock fans always seem to recycle in threads of this type--is the unproven myth that nobody besides Glock owners shoots their pistols. How can anyone possibly know that? It's just ridiculous, and does not hold up under even minimal observation.
Glock objectively could be said to be 'king of the hill' by 2 metrics: LE agency adoption, and widest aftermarket parts support. Those are demonstrably true. After that, it's the wild west. It's not a milspec standard. It's not even a de facto civilian standard in the way that a Rem 700 is, with all the clone actions being compatible with it. I can't use Glock triggers with any of my other pistols. But I could use a Remington 700 trigger or stock with a Bighorn/Defiance/etc. action. Similar with SR-25 pattern rifles--there's no 'milspec' standard, but there's a de facto standard for large frame rifles and a lot of the parts can interchange across brands. Nothing like this is true with the Glock, in no way is it a 'standard' by any definable metric I can see other than the 2 mentioned. There are more great striker fired pistol options than ever, and people are getting them. So no, the Glock is not a standard and will not become one in the near future, that I can see.
Folks who have a choice of mid-size compact pistol would be well advised, in my humble opinion, to try a G19/G17, along with a variety of other pistol options we have. It's a solid pistol for sure, but it's also a good idea to also try M&P Gen 2, H&K VP9 or P30 w/ LEM, Walther PPQ, Sig P320, 1911 (with the usual qualification that it needs to be a quality, well maintained 1911--because there is no "the 1911", there are just 1911's). These pistols are all have good support in the wider shooting community, most have significant .mil or LE agency adoption as well. Bottom line, outside of LE, Glock does not have a lock and I haven't seen any evidence to suggest it does.
Oops after typing all that, just realized OP got his question answered and bowed out. Oh well. Out.
Folks who have a choice of mid-size compact pistol would be well advised, in my humble opinion, to try a G19/G17, along with a variety of other pistol options we have. It's a solid pistol for sure, but it's also a good idea to also try M&P Gen 2, H&K VP9 or P30 w/ LEM, Walther PPQ, Sig P320, 1911
I would prefer any of those to a G19, and to a lesser degree G17, all day any day. I still direct people who are looking for a good overall one stop shop pistol to try the G19 first. If you don't mind to terrible ergos, the crappy little safe action trigger, meh sites, and jacked up POI that forces you to alter your grip compared to all other pistols, it's a great choice! :haha:
(with the usual qualification that it needs to be a quality, well maintained 1911--because there is no "the 1911", there are just 1911's). These pistols are all have good support in the wider shooting community, most have significant .mil or LE agency adoption as well. Bottom line, outside of LE, Glock does not have a lock and I haven't seen any evidence to suggest it does.
.
The FBI, NSW, and other major players are jumping on the G19 too, but most PDs will purchase Fords for their pursuit vehicles cuz Ford gave them the best deal. Personally I don't really care, or base purchasing decisions, on what some group/org decided on knowing there's a lot of different factors behind the decision making progress.
Business_Casual
08-22-19, 16:09
Last pistol class I took with a tier 1 instructor was at least 75% Glock. That’s what the instructor had too. We all could have had 1911s too. But we (mostly) brought Glocks. Shrug.
Why not? It’s a fact. Not only that, it’s well known that Sig only own the Army contract because they undercut the price.
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If it’s a fact, why not provide evidence?
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Who cares what gamers use.
Who cares what police departments get the best deal on? Who cares what wannabe Tactical Timmy’s use when they larp? Your choice in handgun does not define you. Shooting a Glock doesn’t make you elite. It doesn’t make you special.
It’s a gun. That’s it. Buy what you shoot best. You’re not special or “in the know” because you have a Glock, Sig, HK, or whatever.
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Last pistol class I took with a tier 1 instructor was at least 75% Glock. That’s what the instructor had too. We all could have had 1911s too. But we (mostly) brought Glocks. Shrug.
Last class I was in the instructor had a 1911 he pulled out of his waistband and threw a Glock on his hip. I asked him why. He said something along the lines of “that’s what all you retards buy, so I have to teach you guys the nuances of it because it’s harder to run.”
I can literally run anything if I had to. But Glock isn’t something special.
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Eurodriver
08-22-19, 18:55
Who cares what police departments get the best deal on? Who cares what wannabe Tactical Timmy’s use when they larp? Your choice in handgun does not define you. Shooting a Glock doesn’t make you elite. It doesn’t make you special.
It’s a gun. That’s it. Buy what you shoot best. You’re not special or “in the know” because you have a Glock, Sig, HK, or whatever.
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Exactly.
Buy one proven platform. Practice with it. Buy parts and ammo and magazines and holsters for it.
Shoot it all the time.
You will be a better shooter than if you just go to the range with four different handguns every time.
If it’s a fact, why not provide evidence?
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Because I don’t care enough to waste the three seconds it’d take to google it for you. Also, I’m super curious to hear what instructor that was. I don’t understand why people get so emotional about this. There are tons of great pistols out there and Glock definitely isn’t perfect, but it is the most widely used in a serious manner.
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Because I don’t care enough to waste the three seconds it’d take to google it for you. Also, I’m super curious to hear what instructor that was. I don’t understand why people get so emotional about this. There are tons of great pistols out there and Glock definitely isn’t perfect, but it is the most widely used in a serious manner.
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Because it isn’t a fact and no such data is available.
Instructor is well known and has commonly publicly stated as much time and time again. If you can’t figure out who it is, is more evidence that some people live in a bubble.
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Exactly.
Buy one proven platform. Practice with it. Buy parts and ammo and magazines and holsters for it.
Shoot it all the time.
You will be a better shooter than if you just go to the range with four different handguns every time.
Agree 100% with this.
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Oops after typing all that, just realized OP got his question answered and bowed out. Oh well. Out.
Actually the OP is very much enjoying this discussion and checks in daily to see what new viewpoints have been offered.
For new shooters who want to try Glock I am going to continue recommending the 19 and also the 45 and 43x. But above all i still recommend to each new shooter to go and rent and try several types of pistols.
As for my own personal preference at the moment, I am liking my G45 just a little bit more than my 19.
MountainRaven
08-22-19, 22:21
Because it isn’t a fact and no such data is available.
Instructor is well known and has commonly publicly stated as much time and time again. If you can’t figure out who it is, is more evidence that some people live in a bubble.
So you don't know or you won't say.
So you don't know or you won't say.
So what? I don’t know what instructor said that to me? WTF.
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Actually the OP is very much enjoying this discussion and checks in daily to see what new viewpoints have been offered.
For new shooters who want to try Glock I am going to continue recommending the 19 and also the 45 and 43x. But above all i still recommend to each new shooter to go and rent and try several types of pistols.
As for my own personal preference at the moment, I am liking my G45 just a little bit more than my 19.
This is only half related, but it goes to some of the points above as well - my G45 is more comfortable to hold in my hand (which some would say is better ergonomics), but I believe that I have a higher performing grip with my 19 because of the Agency magwell. Its absolutely not a direct comparison because of how modified my 19 is, to include stippling, but the magwell though discreet, is enough that it really does shove my hand up higher into the grip of my 19 so I can manage recoil better. I knew that it had been advertised as such, but honestly never thought I'd notice a difference.
This thread is the poster child for why we can't have nice things.
Business_Casual
08-23-19, 19:26
This thread is the poster child for why we can't have nice things.
I award you one Internets
At the last Randy Cain class I attended, a shooter was having issues with their new 1911. At lunch Randy loaned her his G19 (he was wearing, shooting and teaching with his 1911), I loaned her another mag and she had no issues after lunch. Damn good shot, just had never broken in her newly purchase 1911 before class.
Is it meaningful that a top tier instructor provided his G19 to a shooter having issues, maybe, maybe not. The fact he didn't suggest a Sig, CZ, HK, S&W, FN, or anything else knowing guns, shooters and how to teach is meaningful to me.
Bottom line it's a good pistol and a standard that's been copied and/or cloned for decades since introduction.
YMMV
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