View Full Version : Gas piston system
Ok, for the hell of it and because I'm a GP junkie. The all around Chevy vs. Ford question, which is the top of the line gas piston system (Lwrc, LMT, HK)? I'm talking SHTF good to go, no holdin back. Let's do this....
Robb Jensen
11-13-08, 20:00
Ok, for the hell of it and because I'm a GP junkie. The all around Chevy vs. Ford question, which is the top of the line gas piston system (Lwrc, LMT, HK)? I'm talking SHTF good to go, no holdin back. Let's do this....
Why do you want a piston gun?
MisterWilson
11-13-08, 20:04
Why do you want a piston gun?
Haha, way to take him out at the knees.
Seriously though, why do you want a piston gun? You still have to clean them...
<-----Excommunicated from the church of pistonology
Ok, for the hell of it and because I'm a GP junkie. The all around Chevy vs. Ford question, which is the top of the line gas piston system (Lwrc, LMT, HK)? I'm talking SHTF good to go, no holdin back. Let's do this....
Take a look at the ADC PD15: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=15229
GP junkie? Gas Piston junkie? If you are a junkie, I would be lead to believe that you simply can't get enough of them. With that being said, which ones do you own and which ones work best for you?
The jury still seems to be out on whether they are necessary or even helpful to the average shooter. I myself would like to see less crud in my AR's action, but as many people are coming to find out the hard way, they don't help much when running suppressed after all, which is how "I roll" these days ;)
rightwingmaniac
11-13-08, 21:42
ss568- i know where your coming from. 2 of my 4 ar's are gas piston. 1 is an lwrc and the other is a pof. both run flawlessly. my other 2 are an lmt and a colt.
i havent had much experience with hk or lmt piston rifles. so i cant compare. what i do know is my piston guns (both) run cleaner and cooler in the bcg area. i fired off 3 30 round mags in a row, cracked open my ar and could hold the bcg in my hand immediately. try that with a di gun. that translates to a longer life for your internals.
most people dont give a shit about the pistons cause everytime after they shoot, they clean them anyway. some people will look down on you and view you as a wanna be yuppie urban commando panzie for just contemplating the idea. their old school and di guns have always worked just fine for them. they worked fine for me. no problems at all, as long as you dont neglect them. but in your hypothetical, shtf approach, a piston is a great option. special forces are all over the hk.
anyway, my lwrc m6a2 6.8 srt is the baddest mofo ive ever had the chance to finger ar wise. i get wood just lookin at it. hk's dont come in 6.8 and are not available to civies. pof's are nice and im sure lmt makes a hell of a piston gun with there track record. but i am sold on lwrc. good luck
Wow that seemed laden with angst and resentment!
Pistons that work are nice, you have to admit that, just nice is all.
There's no REAL reason for them. I don't swap out BCGs on the fly so temperature is no concern for me. I've also heard no reports of one failing due to heat stress.
You can, I suppose, dry up your lube a little quicker with the heat and the dirt doesn't help.
I think the worst let down in the piston world was the early assumptions that they are perfect for suppressed rifles but people are finding out that their suppressors make sure to throw plenty of dirty poo straight back down the barrel.
I've never found my suppressed 11.5" to get all that dirty anyway. My 10" 9mm upper on the other hand does get very filthy but I don't think a piston will help that one out at all ;)
Oooo hostile, must of hit a soft spot.Why not a piston.And a Bushmaster, two LWRC uppers and a issued HK 416, ok maybe nota junkie.
Sorry, didn't mean to seem hostile. Heck, I thought Robb already paved the way for a little hostility! :p
Ok so you own 4 piston uppers? Sounds to me like you should be giving advice on the best and not asking for it! :)
What's your opinion on those you own and have used then? I'm seriously not being sarcastic, you seem to have a good base to be making your own suggestions from.
I held a LWRC rifle at a local shop recently. It was very light and handy. Their newer rail seemed very very nice. It had good balance with no optic.
It's all in good fun. My Bushy iv'e had for about a year and put well over 3000 rounds throw it.No problems, minor jams, but everyone knows it's a bushmaster. I have not shot the two LWRC. Got them off a friend who ordered them and could not pay for them when they came in, lucky me.The HK is all what they talk about. It is the jewel of the black rifles in my opinion. It runs like no other I have ever used. My pick of the liter. But it's issued. Anyone had problems with LWRC?
Robb Jensen
11-14-08, 06:36
I owned a ARES piston conversion....it lasted just over 500 rounds of full auto and then broke. Gas tube roll pin walked out, spigot shifted rearward, op rod bent.
ARES sent me the parts and I traded a friend the kit fir a Geissele trigger. I installed it on the friends rifle after 'shaving' FSB into gas block. I tapped (threaded) the gas tube roll pin hole in the gas block with a 4-40 tap and used a set screw with Rocksett on it and thus far it's run well for him. It does have some carrier tilt so he'll likely be getting a Seth Harness anti-tilt buffer when one becomes available.
I my current PWS piston conversion on my Colt 6920 upper has run well but I've broken it 4 times (all this within 2700 rounds).
Gen 1 version (pinned gas block).....I broke the plug/cap on the gas block removing the piston, it was stuck from carbon and wouldn't come lose. Ran 100% well until it broke. Returned entire upper to PWS then they upgraded everything.
Gen 2 version (set screwed gas block).....In less than 500 rounds gas block came loose. I fixed it by drilling and reaming for a taper pin and installing one. Then a few hundred rounds later the carrier key came loose. I fixed it, I removed it completely from the carrier and cleaned everything up and used red loc-tite and reassembled. Next the op rod came loose off of the carrier key. I returned the entire upper once again to PWS and everything but the gas block was upgraded. 1200 rounds later it's now running well. To address the small amount of carrier tilt on this gun I've been using a Seth Harness anti-tilt buffer which works very well.
FWIW I've run my 10" direct impingement LMT SBR now past 12K rounds also used in two 3day classes now with no parts failures of anything (5K of that suppressed) only 'jams' were 2 short strokes with Radway Green when running unsuppressed..........again why a piston?
Trading direct impingement for piston is just trading one set of problems for another set, the grass actually isn't greener on the other side.
Alaskapopo
11-16-08, 00:05
GP junkie? Gas Piston junkie? If you are a junkie, I would be lead to believe that you simply can't get enough of them. With that being said, which ones do you own and which ones work best for you?
The jury still seems to be out on whether they are necessary or even helpful to the average shooter. I myself would like to see less crud in my AR's action, but as many people are coming to find out the hard way, they don't help much when running suppressed after all, which is how "I roll" these days ;)
A friend of mine is interested in a short barreled suppressed AR. I had read that the piston was the best solution for this set up due to problems with DI guns beating themselves to death with suppressors attached. Fill me in. I have very little experience with SBR guns with suppressors.
Pat
SHTF GP or DI system? Any will do as long as it is from a reputable mfg. Better than using a knife....:rolleyes:
Yes, they increase operating pressures to a certain degree.
Most people run a heavier buffer to slow the action a bit- even 9mm buffers sometimes. IIRC, I have an H3 and I don't foresee having any problems with parts breaking due to the suppressor.
Alaskapopo
11-16-08, 01:45
HK 416
I would love to have one. But what would be your second choice in a short barreled suppressed AR. Thanks. I want to be able to pass on good information and I have no personal experience with the short guns.
Pat
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