View Full Version : Question regarding pre employment polygraph testing (LEO input prefered)
GLP Standard
11-14-08, 00:09
Im going to be straight forward in here. I can take constructive criticism, but if its going to put me down for my mistakes, then don't bother.
Im 24 years old (today was my birthday actually), and ever since I was 12 or so, I wanted to be a cop. Can't think of anything else I would rather do, and if I don't make it I'm pretty screwed I figure because I haven't considered any alternatives. I would rather be a street cop making $45K a year than doing something I hated making $200K a year. Thats how it should be too. Don't ask me what the appeal is to me. Its just what Ive always wanted to do.
All that being said, I was a pretty decent kid growing up. Only been arrested once when I was 15 (driving without a license. VERY long story) but the charges were removed from my record. Aside from quite a few speeding tickets (not enough to suspend my license, but close) between the ages of 17 and 20 (haven't had any in the past 4 years almost) I was always an honest, law abiding citizen. Yes, I have experimented with drugs (nothing hard) I have stolen small items before (mostly when I was a kid) I have smoked cigarettes before I was 18, I have drank alcohol before I was 21.
My ONLY problem Polygraph, is Marijuana usage. As stated, I have experimented with drugs (tried pain killers a few times, didnt care for them) but Marijuana usage is the only thing that was extreme. Its unimportant how many times ive done it, except to say that by most, if not all standards and requirements, my amount would be WAAAY more than the cutoff to determine if it is a disqualifying factor or not. Im not proud of it, but it was an honest mistake that I wish I could take back. That being said, in my defense, I was NEVER addicted. I don't see how one could be addicted to such a drug to be honest. I did it over a period of probably 4-5 years (haven't done it in over 3 years by the way) casually with my friends, on average, maybe 2 or 3 times a week. I have of course gone weeks without touching it during this few year period, but for the most part, on average thats how often I did it. Reason for doing it? Because its what my friends were in to. I don't consider it abuse, I dont consider it addiction and I dont consider it experimental. I would have to consider it "social use" if there is such a thing.
Now, lets get to the point. I have NO INTENTIONS whatsoever of ever touching Marijuana again. It was a part of my life that Im glad I grew out of, but as I said before I regret being stupid enough to do it. I would be willing to take a random drug test 3 times a week just to prove that I am never going back to it. Ive grown up since then, and I know whats important in life. Smoking Marijuana is not. I never thought that smoking Marijuana (never took into account that the amount you do it might matter) would ever disqualify me. In fact, I always made it a point to stay away from harder drugs (cocaine, mushrooms, etc) when growing up because I knew that using such drugs WOULD disqualify you from any LEO position.
So, Im an honest guy. I believe that honesty is the best policy, however Im starting to have doubts about that. I have been turned down for DOC (Dept of Corrections) because I was too honest on the Backround Investigation and they said the amount of times Ive smoked Marijuana is disqualifying. This discouraged me quite a bit. Ive been told several times by several people "You need to look at your life, and say 'This is the path Ive been going down, and this is the path I want to take. Which path am I going to take?' and put how many times youve smoked in the past behind you, because no one will hire you with that in your background. No one is perfect, so you need to lie on the polygraph and just get through it and tell yourself that you're taking a different path in life from now on". I've honestly been considering this, but I just can't see myself lying on a polygraph. Even though its just one simple thing that I really don't think should disqualify me, I would much rather get the job Ive always wanted based on honesty and integrity, rather than cheating. I think thats what Law Enforcement is all about. I always said to the people that made the type of statement as quoted above about lying on the polygraph "I think that honesty is important, and they won't care so much how much Ive done it. They want to see if I can be honest, so I would much rather go in there and tell the truth. I think they will appreciate that more". After getting disqualified from DOC, my attitude has changed about that, and thats pretty sad that Im getting discouraged from Law Enforcement in general because I'm too honest? I mean...come on...I though honesty was the best policy?
In conclusion, I would like your input.
First off, in your own words, anything you want to say about my situation and your opinion on it.
Second, based on what I said, do you think I stand a chance in hell of ever getting on with any LE Agency if I tell the truth, whether it be just the facts, or I give a narrative to the Background Investigator like this one. Could I possibly get a waiver from any technicality that will disqualify me for the amount of my usage? I hate to say it, but maybe Im just not cut out for law enforcement. Ive always said I would be a cop one day, for the past 12 years. It'll be a very depressing day when I realize that it can never be because I screwed up my future by being stupid, but its a realization I need to make pretty soon so I can do something different with my life.
Third, How do you feel about the whole statement random people have made to me about "erasing your past and choosing the right road and lying about drug use to get on" etc etc?
First and foremost, NEVER LIE. I had the same concerns when I was getting hired on when I was 21. At 29, I swithched agencies and began worrying that I may be inaccurate about my juvenile deliquencies in the background.
Here's the deal. Be consistant. I recall a female officer being placed on admin leave and ultimately fired after applying at another deparment. The problem was her background apps did not jive.
Keep trying and applying. Successful people learn from their mistakes. If a pattern of clean living and sound judgement is shown, who knows, they may reconsider. Also, what one agency dismisses you for may be overlooked by another.
One trait of a great cop is life experience. Not many 21 year olds have much of that. I am not proud of my shit-head youth, but it also has helped me to better understand the world around me, as it could also ultimately benifit you.
Polygraph or not, be forthright and honest....do not minimize. "I only, just, but". Just say it like it is.
Honestly, three years, that would mean up until 21. That is a little over youthful stupidity. Hind sight is 20/20. I would reccomend enrolling in some criminal justice courses, while giving you a little more time spread from the reefer, be honest and keep trying.
Good luck.
Oh, and on #3, if you lie you should never be a cop, period. It's all about integrity, comprimise that on day 1 and you're toast.
KEYWORD: HONESTY.
1. Don't be concerned just about the poly. In addition some agencies actually interview friends, relatives, etc.. and it will come back to bite you in the ass if you lie about it. I smoked marijuana prior to joining the military ( I admitted as much) and it didn't prevent me from getting a security clearance.
2. 24 is pretty young, IMHO and maybe you should seek some other life experience first? Have you considered the military? You could enlist, get money for college and learn additional skills that will help you down the road. If you then apply after say 4 years of military service, you will have put more distance between you and the marijuana stuff as well as having gained other skills, training and experience.
3. Remember if you do lie, either in the BI or the Poly and you are later outed you will never be a cop again and it may well affect your career/ job plans for a long time to come.
Let me help you out. I'm actually going to invest some time and thought into this so you would do well to take this to heart.
Im going to be straight forward in here. I can take constructive criticism, but if its going to put me down for my mistakes, then don't bother.
Get over this. You will be spit at, smacked, punched, kicked, pissed on, shit on, screamed at, judged, all by the public you defend. All of this pales to what the brass is capable of doing to you as well. Academy is going to be rough on you if you feel it necessary to preface a solicitation for advice with a "don't put me down" clause.
Im 24 years old (today was my birthday actually), and ever since I was 12 or so, I wanted to be a cop. Can't think of anything else I would rather do, and if I don't make it I'm pretty screwed I figure because I haven't considered any alternatives. I would rather be a street cop making $45K a year than doing something I hated making $200K a year. Thats how it should be too. Don't ask me what the appeal is to me. Its just what Ive always wanted to do.
You've wanted to be a cop since you were 12? What have you been doing to prepare for it? Smoking weed for 5 years 2-3 times a week? Get serious here brother. This is the exact question they will ask you if you were to say this. Side note. 45k a year?? That's 2x the amount local agencies pay around here.
All that being said, I was a pretty decent kid growing up. Only been arrested once when I was 15 (driving without a license. VERY long story) but the charges were removed from my record. Aside from quite a few speeding tickets (not enough to suspend my license, but close) between the ages of 17 and 20 (haven't had any in the past 4 years almost) I was always an honest, law abiding citizen. Yes, I have experimented with drugs (nothing hard) I have stolen small items before (mostly when I was a kid) I have smoked cigarettes before I was 18, I have drank alcohol before I was 21.
Arrested at 15 for driving without a license? No biggie by itself. The charges were probably NOT removed from the record the background investigator is privy too. Just so you know.
A lot of speeding tickets? Again... Not too big a deal by itself. Shows a pattern of an inability (bad) to learn your lesson OR a unwillingness (worse) to learn from your mistakes.
Stolen items? I've never intentionally stolen anything in my life. Walked off with a bank pen perhaps but purely by accident. The willingness to steal, at any age really, is what concerns me.
Cigs and alcohol before legal age? No one gives 2 shits.... by themselves.
You say no hard drug use but below you say you smoked weed 2-3 times a week for 4-5 years? If that doesn't meet the definition of hard drug use, I'm not sure what does.
Some of things you have done, by themselves, are innocuous. The problem you face is the obvious pattern your life portrays. You have continually chosen to make wrong decisions over and over.
My ONLY problem Polygraph, is Marijuana usage. As stated, I have experimented with drugs (tried pain killers a few times, didnt care for them) but Marijuana usage is the only thing that was extreme. Its unimportant how many times ive done it, except to say that by most, if not all standards and requirements, my amount would be WAAAY more than the cutoff to determine if it is a disqualifying factor or not. Im not proud of it, but it was an honest mistake that I wish I could take back. That being said, in my defense, I was NEVER addicted. I don't see how one could be addicted to such a drug to be honest. I did it over a period of probably 4-5 years (haven't done it in over 3 years by the way) casually with my friends, on average, maybe 2 or 3 times a week. I have of course gone weeks without touching it during this few year period, but for the most part, on average thats how often I did it. Reason for doing it? Because its what my friends were in to. I don't consider it abuse, I dont consider it addiction and I dont consider it experimental. I would have to consider it "social use" if there is such a thing.
You are lying to yourself, minimizing your actions, and not taking full responsibility for your mistakes. This comes through extremely clear. Admitting that you smoked marijuana is one thing but when you attempt to qualify your actions by saying "i didn't abuse it" or "my friends were doing it" you show you are incapable of 1) making good choices 2) owning up and taking FULL responsibility for the bad ones. You would never qualify for a LE position at any of the agencies I'm familiar with simply with the amount of drug use alone not to mention the bad disposition you have towards your own past.
Never use, "in my defense", when attempting to explain the intricacies of why you were smoking marijuana.
The polygraph is NOT your only problem I'm afraid.
Now, lets get to the point. I have NO INTENTIONS whatsoever of ever touching Marijuana again. It was a part of my life that Im glad I grew out of, but as I said before I regret being stupid enough to do it. I would be willing to take a random drug test 3 times a week just to prove that I am never going back to it. Ive grown up since then, and I know whats important in life. Smoking Marijuana is not. I never thought that smoking Marijuana (never took into account that the amount you do it might matter) would ever disqualify me. In fact, I always made it a point to stay away from harder drugs (cocaine, mushrooms, etc) when growing up because I knew that using such drugs WOULD disqualify you from any LEO position.
You figured that an LE agency would be ok with you heavily using marijuana on the basis of "at least it wasn't crack"? Is this a joke? How did you think that conversation was going to go??
Funny how things we do now affect us in the future... Good and bad. Don't ever forget that.
The agency is going to give you unbelievable authority, power, and a gun. They want to make sure you aren't going to be a liability. Someone with your lifestyle pattern falls into the "dangerous liability" column of the ledger from my experience.
So, Im an honest guy. I believe that honesty is the best policy, however Im starting to have doubts about that. I have been turned down for DOC (Dept of Corrections) because I was too honest on the Backround Investigation and they said the amount of times Ive smoked Marijuana is disqualifying. This discouraged me quite a bit. Ive been told several times by several people "You need to look at your life, and say 'This is the path Ive been going down, and this is the path I want to take. Which path am I going to take?' and put how many times youve smoked in the past behind you, because no one will hire you with that in your background. No one is perfect, so you need to lie on the polygraph and just get through it and tell yourself that you're taking a different path in life from now on". I've honestly been considering this, but I just can't see myself lying on a polygraph. Even though its just one simple thing that I really don't think should disqualify me, I would much rather get the job Ive always wanted based on honesty and integrity, rather than cheating. I think thats what Law Enforcement is all about. I always said to the people that made the type of statement as quoted above about lying on the polygraph "I think that honesty is important, and they won't care so much how much Ive done it. They want to see if I can be honest, so I would much rather go in there and tell the truth. I think they will appreciate that more". After getting disqualified from DOC, my attitude has changed about that, and thats pretty sad that Im getting discouraged from Law Enforcement in general because I'm too honest? I mean...come on...I though honesty was the best policy?
If everything you have said to us is true, then yes, you are an honest guy. I know a lot of honest felons though.
If you are having doubts that honesty is the best policy, then save yourself the future rejections. Withdraw your applications and start looking at something else. I would NEVER EVER EVER want you ANYWHERE NEAR me on the road if that is your attitude. I'll take it one step further and say I wouldn't want you flipping burgers next to me at McDonald's if that was your moral code... Think about it.
I'm not sure where you are from but here, DOC hires just about any thug. (not a slap of DOC, we have a lot of good ones. The hiring process however is flawed severely) If it's the same where you live and you were turned down.. You are SOL my friend.
This whole paragraph is you whining about peoples judgment of your life choices. I didn't do the things you mentioned and I got hired. Why should your hiring standards be ANY different? You feel you are being discouraged from LE because you are TOO honest? ****ing please. :rolleyes:
In conclusion, I would like your input.
First off, in your own words, anything you want to say about my situation and your opinion on it.
Second, based on what I said, do you think I stand a chance in hell of ever getting on with any LE Agency if I tell the truth, whether it be just the facts, or I give a narrative to the Background Investigator like this one. Could I possibly get a waiver from any technicality that will disqualify me for the amount of my usage? I hate to say it, but maybe Im just not cut out for law enforcement. Ive always said I would be a cop one day, for the past 12 years. It'll be a very depressing day when I realize that it can never be because I screwed up my future by being stupid, but its a realization I need to make pretty soon so I can do something different with my life.
Third, How do you feel about the whole statement random people have made to me about "erasing your past and choosing the right road and lying about drug use to get on" etc etc?
Listen, I've seen stranger things happen and people with far worse checkered pasts get hired. This is not an encouragement just the facts. If the agencies where you live are anything like the ones here, you will never become a LEO.
Think about the best case scenario. You lie and get hired. Worth it?
We have enough shitheads wearing a badge that shouldn't be, damaging our image and making it more difficult and dangerous for us to do our jobs.
Only POSSIBLE saving grace is military experience. Our agency looks the other way on A LOT of stuff if that is in your background. Gotta keep your nose clean while in though.
What you have made overtly evident is you want to be a cop for all the wrong reasons. You want the look not the work.
I do honestly wish you luck in your life. Your past doesn't make you a bad person. It simply DQ's you from being a cop, in my area at least.
EDIT! So you can see it in numerical form. You were for a 5 year period of your life, high for 780 out of 1820 days. During 42% of your life for those 5 years you were under the influence of an illegal drug. Would you hire yourself?
don't lie. iraqgunz hit the nail on the head with the background investigation- they're going to talk to people from your highschool/previous employment/neighbors, etc... and those people won't lie for you. some of them secretly don't like you, and WILL divulge any dirt they have.
do you know all the requirements/disqualifiers for the department/state you're trying to get into? sounds pretty rough.. some agencies don't care all that much about prior marijuana use, so long as it's been several years. find out just what exactly they disqualify for, and that'll help. if it's the case that you're in a really conservative state/town, you might want to look elsewhere. LE agencies all across the country are hurting for men.
besides your background, your age will hurt you. agencies are starting to realize that you really don't have fully developed cognitive reasoning until at least 26, and not enough life experience until 26-28. Join the army or get a degree in sociology or criminal justice. or both. by the time you're out of either, you'll be 4 years older, 4 years cleaner, and be 100% more attractive to any agency. Police departments love applicants with 4 years MP.
bkb,
Strangely enough Arizona (where he resides) has some rather strict policies in regards to marijuana usage. IIRC, it has to do with AZPOST guidelines and there is very little wiggle room-at least the way I read it. However, were he to go to California he would probably not have an issue at some depts.
don't lie. iraqgunz hit the nail on the head with the background investigation- they're going to talk to people from your highschool/previous employment/neighbors, etc... and those people won't lie for you. some of them secretly don't like you, and WILL divulge any dirt they have.
do you know all the requirements/disqualifiers for the department/state you're trying to get into? sounds pretty rough.. some agencies don't care all that much about prior marijuana use, so long as it's been several years. find out just what exactly they disqualify for, and that'll help. if it's the case that you're in a really conservative state/town, you might want to look elsewhere. LE agencies all across the country are hurting for men.
besides your background, your age will hurt you. agencies are starting to realize that you really don't have fully developed cognitive reasoning until at least 26, and not enough life experience until 26-28. Join the army or get a degree in sociology or criminal justice. or both. by the time you're out of either, you'll be 4 years older, 4 years cleaner, and be 100% more attractive to any agency. Police departments love applicants with 4 years MP.
I'm with ZDL. You've got a whole host of issues here and they're not with the polygraph.
And as he pointed you, this is "an honest mistake" that you committed 780 times. Why? Well, because your friends were doing it.
That's not going to fly, especially if you're going to claim that you've always wanted to be a cop.
Go decide why you really want to be a cop. And then if you come up with the right reasons, then start redeeming yourself right now by doing something else and productive. You have time. You're young. But as ZDL pointed out, the amount of minimizing and explaining you're doing right now say that you aren't ready and you're not doing this for the right reasons.
thopkins22
11-14-08, 09:42
Tell them you smoked pot because you wanted to get high.:D
I used to volunteer with the Marshal Division and everybody has made mistakes...everybody that became a cop didn't lie about them.
With that said, pot usage probably won't be a huge deal in another ten years if you can wait...trickle down tolerance maybe? Clinton, Bush, and now Obama? Three consecutive admitted drug users have been elected to the highest office...never mind how many raised their hand to that question in the primaries.
lonewolf21
11-14-08, 11:02
never lie, in my dept. about 75% of applicants dont get the job cause they think they can bullshit the polygraph. from what the tell me they could really give a shit about your pot usage, they did however ask how many times i had smoked. not being quite 21 at the time my background check was pretty spotless. and yes they will know about you getting arrested, that stuff goes off of your record, but not entirely. the key will be to man up and simply give them the truth, good or bad and maybe they will give you a chance. but to even think about lying, wtf.
GLP Standard
11-14-08, 11:12
Thats my point lonewolf, Im not thinking about lying. I wont lie, thats why I'm here. If it was that simple, my thread would have simply said "How do I cheat a polygraph". I posted this to see if you guys think I ever have a chance with what I have on my background, NOT to try and cheat the polygraph.
Anyway, to everyone, thanks for your input. To ZDL, your post was fine. When I said not to bad mouth me or whatever, I meant don't tell me how much of a dumbass I am for messing up my future. 90% of your post was probably true and Im taking every piece of advice in here, so dont think that you offended me or that Im overlooking what you said. Its not that easy to hurt my feelings.
Keep your replies coming. Trust me, you wont offend me as long as your post is productive.
3. Remember if you do lie, either in the BI or the Poly and you are later outed you will never be a cop again and it may well affect your career/ job plans for a long time to come.
Iraqgunz is 100% correct. For most, if not all agencies in Arizona dishonesty/lying about your history will permanently disqualify you from being hired. Additionally, most agencies in Arizona check to see if an applicant has applied with other agencies in the state. Any difference in the information given to other agencies is scrutinized. I know my agency has fired quite a few officers that were found to have lied about their background. Some of these officers had been with the agency for a few years when the lie was discovered.
I can't say if your marijuana usage will disqualify you from consideration. I know that every agency I am familiar with allows "experimentation" but does not define what that means. I seriously doubt that regular use over 4-5 years could be considered experimenting. Whatever you do though, don't lie on your application or background questionnaire because that will definitely disqualify you.
I've known other people with worse stuff in their background then you get hired on. As others have said BE HONEST! DO NOT LIE! If in doubt tell them about it! My Poly examiner asked me several times before the actual exam, if there was anything I was concerned about to tell him then, and I did. It was kind of nerve racking, but you'll make it through! Good luck!
-RD62
I'm in the same boat, not exactly to the same extent. Tell the truth, there's always going to be a agency that will accept you somewhere. If your caught lying, that may not be so.
If all else fails try in Vermont, their DQs are extremely relaxed compared to other States.
This is straight from the Peoria P.D website. As far as I know (because I will be in the market myself in the future) many Arizona agencies have a very similar if not same policy in regards to marijuana and other drug usage.
9. Not have illegally sold, produced, cultivated, or transported for sale marijuana;
10. Not have illegally used marijuana for any purpose within the past three years;
11. Not have ever illegally used marijuana other than for experimentation;
12. Not have ever illegally used marijuana while employed or appointed as a peace officer;
Thats my point lonewolf, Im not thinking about lying.
Yes you are. You said you were in your original post. You need to get real. You aren't fooling anyone.
I wont lie, thats why I'm here. If it was that simple, my thread would have simply said "How do I cheat a polygraph". I posted this to see if you guys think I ever have a chance with what I have on my background, NOT to try and cheat the polygraph.
Some here seem to think you do. I haven't seen them say they are LE yet though. Tough to qualify their opinions without knowledge of their background.
Anyway, to everyone, thanks for your input. To ZDL, your post was fine. When I said not to bad mouth me or whatever, I meant don't tell me how much of a dumbass I am for messing up my future. 90% of your post was probably true and Im taking every piece of advice in here, so dont think that you offended me or that Im overlooking what you said. Its not that easy to hurt my feelings.
90% of my post is "possibly" true? :rolleyes: You are far from the mindset it takes to be a productive member of LE. Join the military, go back to school, or find another career path until you get a grip on the totality of personal responsibility.
You won't be a cop in AZ with that kind of drug history... PERIOD.
I think the MOST liberal policy I've heard of is about 20 times MAXIMUM uses of pot.
And if you've disclosed this to any L.E. agency in AZ already, you can't change your story now even if you want to. They do talk to one another. And they do ask if you've been declined by any other agencies within a year or so.
lonewolf21
11-14-08, 13:29
yes i am a guard, of course things to work differently within depts. kudos to you for at least disclosing of all your mistakes. i give you credit for realizing that regular use of mary jane is stupid and kind of against the whole idea of being a cop, ie. being party to known criminal behavior. but lets be honest, ive smoked it, most have. i talked awhile with my examiner before the test and was very honest about using it. she appreciated the honesty and lauged. advising me that ,"if thats the worst youve got", "this shouldnt take very long". dont stress about it to much. give it a go and see what happens. good luck to you. p.s. my dept has hired folks that dont have any business being a cop. and i dont trust them in the slightest. pot smokers are the least of my worries when someones got to watch my back....
Plus, if you wait another 4 years, chances are you'll realize you don't want to be a cop anyway. After my military career was cut short on me one unfortunate day, I was a little like you- no clue what the hell I was gonna do with my life. Law enforcement seemed like the appropriate rout, the ONLY route.. I got me some VA chapter 31 and started studying criminal justice. I quit, literally 5 credits before graduation- because after all the ride-alongs, interviews with cops, even becoming friends with a couple cops, having been instructed by cops for 3 years.... I suddenly realized I didn't like cops, didn't want to work with them, and sure as hell didn't want to be one.
I'm sure glad I decided to go to school first, because if I had been hired, and been on the job for a while, before I came to this realization- well, I would have been a lot more screwed than I ended up being.
I may apply for a reserve position somewhere quiet sometime in the future, just as a public service. reserves get the benefit of being able to do their one shift a week and do something positive, without getting sucked into the awful mindset, drama, and politics of the "police officer sub-culture." And you can keep your better paying day job.
I think that you were hoping that a bunch of LEOs would stop in and tell you that its not so bad and that you have a chance. And I think that if you were told you have no chance, that you'd consider trying to lie to the polygrapher.
Well, I'm sorry to say that you've got serious impediments to pursuing a law enforcement career
You're clearly minimizing your behavior in your posts. I'm sorry, but I smoked pot 2 or 3 times a week for 4 or 5 years, been arrested, and gotten a few speeding tickets (and almost none in the past 4 years) doesn't belong in the same sentence as "I was always an honest, law abiding citizen."
You weren't. You might be fundamentally a good kid, but you clearly aren't ready to take responsibility for your actions even now.
And whatever you believe about smoking pot, its still against the law and if you want to be a law enforcement officer, most departments frown on anything more than experimentation. And there are thousands and thousands of kids out there who have not used (or even experimented).
GLP Standard
11-14-08, 18:10
Ive said it a few times in here, and a couple of you are too convinced just by reading my posts that Im going to lie on the polygraph, but thats not the case (as if anyone in here knows me). You dont believe me? Fine, thats your prerogative. No skin off my back. I just wanted to know if I stood a chance, or if someone can flat out tell me right here and now there is no way I will ever become a LEO. Ive had cops tell me in person at the dept that I want to work for, the same thing that a few of you have. They don't think the amount of times you have done it matters, as long as it wasnt recent, and there are people who have done much harder stuff and still become LEO's. Now tell me this. If I was planning on cheating a polygraph, would I really go into the PD im applying for and tell a Sgt there everything I just told you? Makes perfect sense. But then again thats just judging me without really knowing who I am. Seems to be a common theme in here today.
There is no definitive answer as to whether or not I can or cant ever become an LEO. Thats why I was in here to get a general answer from everyone (preferably Police Officers, who have gone through the hiring process and possibly have been in the same boat) whether or not they think I stand a chance. If yes, great, ill keep trying. I have some stuff to work on, but Im in no hurry. If not, then I want to know if Im wasting my time.
Point is, ZDL's first post was straight forward, to the point, and his honest opinion. A little harsh yes, but I can take it. After all, its the truth, right? His second post, and a couple others were getting too personal. No one in here knows me. No one knows where I have applied, who I have talked to, what I have done to prepare, what I know, what Ive read, where ive worked/what I do right now. Flat out, no one in here knows me from Adam. I wanted positive answers in here. I have no place for the kind of downgrading negativity that a couple of you are starting to spew. Twisting my words around to make me sound worse than I really am, and telling me that Im not as honest and law abiding as I think because Ive been arrested and gotten speeding tickets without knowing the circumstances behind my arrest is a little immature IMHO. If you want to know the circumstances, PM me. I have nothing to hide. Until then, try not to hold something so petty against me. As for my arrest being taken off my record permanently, the charges were never filed because I went through a Juvenile Diversion Program under the stipulation that the charges would not be put through. Ive had a lot of background checks done and there is NO record of it whatsoever. I think its long gone because technically on paper it never even existed
GLP,
You came here and asked for opinions and you got them. You see things one way (because it is favorable to you ) we see things different because we have no dog in the fight. I live in Arizona and have also researched many depts. in the Phoenix area. I have looked at many depts. info packets and they are pretty much uniform. Experimental drug use is one thing. What you did is not considered experimental.
As for the circumstances behind your arrest it doesn't matter. What does matter and is that when one looks at the totality of the situation there is a PATTERN. You may not see, others do.
Some people have been hard and some have offered advice. Guess what the world is hard. Better get used to it especially if you want to work in L.E.
Ive said it a few times in here, and a couple of you are too convinced just by reading my posts that Im going to lie on the polygraph, but thats not the case (as if anyone in here knows me). You dont believe me? Fine, thats your prerogative. No skin off my back. I just wanted to know if I stood a chance, or if someone can flat out tell me right here and now there is no way I will ever become a LEO. Ive had cops tell me in person at the dept that I want to work for, the same thing that a few of you have. They don't think the amount of times you have done it matters, as long as it wasnt recent, and there are people who have done much harder stuff and still become LEO's. Now tell me this. If I was planning on cheating a polygraph, would I really go into the PD im applying for and tell a Sgt there everything I just told you? Makes perfect sense. But then again thats just judging me without really knowing who I am. Seems to be a common theme in here today.
There is no definitive answer as to whether or not I can or cant ever become an LEO. Thats why I was in here to get a general answer from everyone (preferably Police Officers, who have gone through the hiring process and possibly have been in the same boat) whether or not they think I stand a chance. If yes, great, ill keep trying. I have some stuff to work on, but Im in no hurry. If not, then I want to know if Im wasting my time.
Point is, ZDL's first post was straight forward, to the point, and his honest opinion. A little harsh yes, but I can take it. After all, its the truth, right? His second post, and a couple others were getting too personal. No one in here knows me. No one knows where I have applied, who I have talked to, what I have done to prepare, what I know, what Ive read, where ive worked/what I do right now. Flat out, no one in here knows me from Adam. I wanted positive answers in here. I have no place for the kind of downgrading negativity that a couple of you are starting to spew. Twisting my words around to make me sound worse than I really am, and telling me that Im not as honest and law abiding as I think because Ive been arrested and gotten speeding tickets without knowing the circumstances behind my arrest is a little immature IMHO. If you want to know the circumstances, PM me. I have nothing to hide. Until then, try not to hold something so petty against me.
Ive said it a few times in here, and a couple of you are too convinced just by reading my posts that Im going to lie on the polygraph, but thats not the case (as if anyone in here knows me). You dont believe me? Fine, thats your prerogative. No skin off my back. I just wanted to know if I stood a chance, or if someone can flat out tell me right here and now there is no way I will ever become a LEO. Ive had cops tell me in person at the dept that I want to work for, the same thing that a few of you have. They don't think the amount of times you have done it matters, as long as it wasnt recent, and there are people who have done much harder stuff and still become LEO's. Now tell me this. If I was planning on cheating a polygraph, would I really go into the PD im applying for and tell a Sgt there everything I just told you? Makes perfect sense. But then again thats just judging me without really knowing who I am. Seems to be a common theme in here today.
There is no definitive answer as to whether or not I can or cant ever become an LEO. Thats why I was in here to get a general answer from everyone (preferably Police Officers, who have gone through the hiring process and possibly have been in the same boat) whether or not they think I stand a chance. If yes, great, ill keep trying. I have some stuff to work on, but Im in no hurry. If not, then I want to know if Im wasting my time.
Point is, ZDL's first post was straight forward, to the point, and his honest opinion. A little harsh yes, but I can take it. After all, its the truth, right? His second post, and a couple others were getting too personal. No one in here knows me. No one knows where I have applied, who I have talked to, what I have done to prepare, what I know, what Ive read, where ive worked/what I do right now. Flat out, no one in here knows me from Adam. I wanted positive answers in here. I have no place for the kind of downgrading negativity that a couple of you are starting to spew. Twisting my words around to make me sound worse than I really am, and telling me that Im not as honest and law abiding as I think because Ive been arrested and gotten speeding tickets without knowing the circumstances behind my arrest is a little immature IMHO. If you want to know the circumstances, PM me. I have nothing to hide. Until then, try not to hold something so petty against me. As for my arrest being taken off my record permanently, the charges were never filed because I went through a Juvenile Diversion Program under the stipulation that the charges would not be put through. Ive had a lot of background checks done and there is NO record of it whatsoever. I think its long gone because technically on paper it never even existed
Yep, nobody in here knows you. You're just a poster. Just like you'd be just an applicant for a LE job and they wouldn't know you either, would they?
You asked for the advice and opinion of LEOs especially. We're not prone to sugar coating our advice. I know I'm not. And I've seen plenty of terrific applicants not get jobs that they were otherwise qualified because they had smoked pot one more time than was forgiveable. Its just the way that it is. LE is a competitive profession and there's hundreds of men and women out there who have always wanted to be cops since they were 12 too, who have prepared, have read things and have also managed to not succumb to peer pressure or experimentation, and who haven't shown poor judgment and gotten themselves arrested and don't have a bunch of speeding tickets. And the people who are hiring can look at the pile of applications (where you are all just faceless applicants) and choose not to choose you. Why would they not choose you? Because you are 24 years old and have a recent history of heavy marijuana use, a juvenile arrest and a propensity for trying to minimize what you have done.
I'm sorry, but you asked.
Another vote to go into the military. Put yourself on a path to where no one can question your desire to serve your community. It will help you mature and when you are called on your excessive marijuana usage, you can show a clean history for the past several years.
The first step is to get past the denial, you had a marijuana problem. Plain and simple. The question is also raised as to what your mental state or medical condition was at the time, that caused you to inhale copious amounts of a green and brown plantlike substance resembling marijuana.
The polygraph is the least of your worries. Try submitting references for your background. Mine included just about all of my living relatives. It will also want all your former employers. And all of your friends.
If anyone has ever been interviewed by a background investigator for a security clearance or LE/.gov job, they want to know the names of other people that know you. People that you conveniently forgot to leave off the reference forms because they might have dirt on you.
And they ask your references, "Do you know of him/her to abuse alcohol/illegal or prescripition drugs?"
What do you think your friends/former friends will say? Would a department want to gamble with a candidate like that?
telecustom
11-14-08, 20:30
+1 for Military
Bachelorjack
11-15-08, 00:28
Holy crap. You sound like a friend of mine who's name begins with a C. He lives out there and just went through this.
If you are C. for the record I never got to drive that Lotus that belonged to you know who's father.
I suspect you are not C.
Advice I can lend. If your poly goes anything other than swimmingly you will not get the job. They will say they detected some deceit in your answers and ask you to clarify why that might be. If you get to this point you are TOAST.
Be honest. You won't defeat a poly without training against feedback.
If honesty doesn't get you the job then it was never meant to be. Some mistakes in life end up costing us.....
GLP Standard
11-15-08, 10:34
Holy crap. You sound like a friend of mine who's name begins with a C. He lives out there and just went through this.
If you are C. for the record I never got to drive that Lotus that belonged to you know who's father.
I suspect you are not C.
Advice I can lend. If your poly goes anything other than swimmingly you will not get the job. They will say they detected some deceit in your answers and ask you to clarify why that might be. If you get to this point you are TOAST.
Be honest. You won't defeat a poly without training against feedback.
If honesty doesn't get you the job then it was never meant to be. Some mistakes in life end up costing us.....
Is his name Chris? My name is Chris, but I don't know anyone that owns a Lotus. ;)
Thanks everyone for your input, even the people that posted the less favorable responses. Ive weighed everything everyone has said, and though I put up a fuss about a few responses in here, I thought long and hard about them last night and I know where I stand and what I need to do. I wont bother posting in here again, because this thread has served its purpose, but if anyone wants to respond, ill check back and read everyones replies.
Thanks again.
I would take the poly...
half way through..... spark up a fatty and just flat out deny any drug use ever.
You'll be in for sure!:cool:
As a knuckle dragger, I vote this thread be locked for having too many words in so few posts.
All in favor...
All in favor...
I'll smoke to that! :p
Chris- look for another career. From what I have heard you do not have what it takes to be in law enforcement. You are lying to yourself, even if you are being honest with the rest of us. Lots of people are tempted to do certain things in their younger days, and most who want to become a law enforcement officer choose to take a higher path (and not the higher path that you toke- excuse me took). You followed a path that went in the complete opposite direction from the integrity required for LE service. If you are worried about people being mean to you on an internet forum, you definately can't hack it in the real world. Even if you are hired, you won't last very long. People on the street will treat you like garbage, and sometimes your "brass" will treat you even worse. Several others on here have told it to you like it is. You wanted advice- this is mine- find another line of work, the ones of us who had to make sacrifices earlier in life to be here today will be better off.
Not sure why people think this needs to be locked? I personally vote for a sticky...
I lose all attention/interest after about 5 periods.
Generation ADD, man. I'm a card-carrying member.
Chris- look for another career. From what I have heard you do not have what it takes to be in law enforcement. You are lying to yourself, even if you are being honest with the rest of us. Lots of people are tempted to do certain things in their younger days, and most who want to become a law enforcement officer choose to take a higher path (and not the higher path that you toke- excuse me took). You followed a path that went in the complete opposite direction from the integrity required for LE service. If you are worried about people being mean to you on an internet forum, you definately can't hack it in the real world. Even if you are hired, you won't last very long. People on the street will treat you like garbage, and sometimes your "brass" will treat you even worse. Several others on here have told it to you like it is. You wanted advice- this is mine- find another line of work, the ones of us who had to make sacrifices earlier in life to be here today will be better off.
Do what you want in life and don't be discouraged to achieve what is said to be impossible. If you don't succeed at first and still want to pursue a LE career you'll need to develop your skills past that of others. Not sure if you are in school or not, but finance, foreign language, computer programming, etc. can get you in if you excel in those fields. Hence finance, if you can't find an LE agency you can still make some very good money. He is right though, people are going to spit in your face and co-workers might possibly screw you over for a promotion, but that is life.
Little else to say that hasn't already been said, but here's my .02:
You're young. Do something professional and productive for a few years. As you do, keep company only with those above reproach and every corner of life worthy of pride.
Learn another language or two.
Go back to school if you don't have a degree. Take a class anyway.
Don't drink. Don't go to bars.
Don't have a bunch of baby-mamas.
Drive carefully.
Try again when you're 30+.
Everything here is good advice.
Keep in mind that there is no special skillset that is required to be a cop. It isn't rocket science; the department can train anyone with a brain who is willing to learn how to do the job.
There is, however, one thing that they cannot train, and it is the thing they look for in applicants:
The ability to make good decisions, in often challenging circumstances.
Fact of the matter is, you have a extended history of making bad decisions. Now, everyone ****s up when they are kids. Its part of being a kid. But like has been pointed out, when looked at from a distance, by a disinterested party, a pattern of bad decisions on your part emerges. Understand that WHY you did what you did is irrelevant.
This is a HUGE concern for an agency who would unleash you on the public with a badge and gun. Your actions or inactions will have direct and often life and death consequences for yourself, your fellow officers, and the public.
This problem is compounded by the recentness of the actions. You smoked weed 2 - 3 times a week for 5 years, are 24, and have been clean since 21. You do realize that your weed smoking time exceeds your clean time by 2 years, right? The point I am making is there is not enough time between to evaluate if you have actually changed or not. Now if you were 34, and had a history of stability and good work record (ie. not changing jobs every 6 months, etc) it would be a different story, and you would be faced with mostly statutory limitations (cannot have smoked more than X times).
There is no point crying over spilled milk, what is done is done. How you handle the situation is what will indicate if you have changed and are fit for service as a LEO. Also, try to get to know some cops and see how it is in the real world. The gulf between TV cops and real world cops is night and day. You might discover you don't really want to be a cop after all.
theblackknight
11-16-08, 16:04
Sorry if this is hijacking but . . . .
Im 22, I leave for the Marine Corpe Dec 8th. Ive never done any drugs, legal or non, and i rarely drink. Never drink in public. I dont have a criminal record of any sort.
Besides not getting into trouble while im in and taking all the college I can, what other steps would the wiser in this thread sugjest to best prepare a young guy for a career in law enforcement?
Sorry if this is hijacking but . . . .
Im 22, I leave for the Marine Corpe Dec 8th. Ive never done any drugs, legal or non, and i rarely drink. Never drink in public. I dont have a criminal record of any sort.
Besides not getting into trouble while im in and taking all the college I can, what other steps would the wiser in this thread sugjest to best prepare a young guy for a career in law enforcement?
Not a slap in anyway but you are asking and all I have to go on is what you typed.
Enhance your grammar and spelling skills. No one is perfect, least of all me, but simple words like "corpe" and "sugjest" wont fly.
If you stay clean and healthy, you should be gtg.
Run everything you do through a "will this look good or bad to the department recruiter" filter. This alone will save your ass more often than not.
Besides not getting into trouble while im in and taking all the college I can, what other steps would the wiser in this thread sugjest to best prepare a young guy for a career in law enforcement?
While you're in, take advantage of every opportunity to meet people and see things. Spend your times immersed in the culture of the area you're in, not its local bar scene.
Learn to communicate well with people using the spoken and written word.
Read everything you can get your hands on.
Learn a second (or third) language.
Sorry if this is hijacking but . . . .
Im 22, I leave for the Marine Corpe Dec 8th. Ive never done any drugs, legal or non, and i rarely drink. Never drink in public. I dont have a criminal record of any sort.
Besides not getting into trouble while im in and taking all the college I can, what other steps would the wiser in this thread sugjest to best prepare a young guy for a career in law enforcement?
Knowing what I know now, I would not have hired myself at the age of 21. After being married, raising my kids and been there done that for many years I have learned a great deal. There is still much more to learn.
All "24" year olds are not created equal. Case in point, the OP GLP is sweating his life choices in the past. His good intentions may not be enough to help him.
On the flip side, one of my younger bro's started with us at the age of 23. He was fresh off 3 tours in Iraq with the 1st Marine Div when he got hired on. He is married. He broke his femor in an crash durring a pursuit while still in training. He was involved in his first OIS by the age of "24". He was drug and nearly ran over and killed by a drunk 15 year old in a stolen car. Injured, he still had the tenacity to not kill the kid and safely arrest him. He now, on his own time comes out to every OIS and attends to these officers who are sometimes twice his age.
To say I love this "kid" would be an understatement and discredit him. He is one squared away MAN. He is wise beyond his years. We do not treat him as a "kid".
What is interesting when he talks about him, his SAW, a couple of 100 and 200 rnd drums and a bunch of insurents coming up the alley way, to being shot at and returning fire in "civilian life". I think to myself, "24 years old...I'll be damned".
So, it boils down to the individual and what you bring to the table. INEGRITY would be the foremost quality I could think of. The next can not be taught in any school...COMMON SENSE. It sounds funny, but many people lack it, or fail to use it. Common sense will take you far. Some people, bring lots to the table, pass all the tests and hit the road and realize it is not for them. The job is not for everyone.
BlackKnight, come back safe and we'll see you out there. ;)
theblackknight
11-16-08, 19:58
Wow Oscar,squared away is right. Sadly, after high school, I took a little musical detour before realizing I need to GET squared away. Thank you for that story.
And i plan on soking up all of Okinawa I can AFTER hitting the books and the gym. I was gonna try to learn some jap before i go but money was spent on Pmags and such.
this thread is like babay's kids
ZDL said it perfectly.
I have a lot of friends who are cops local and federal and none of them have had a life like you have had let alone before you where of legal drinking age. I would trust my life to them in a heart beat but I am sorry to say I would not to you. I have never done any of the things you have done and I am 33 and damn proud of always having control over my life, you young man have not. To be a LEO demands the most out of someone and demands you make smart choices when the going gets tough. You have not made smart choices in your past. I am thinking very seriously about changing my direction in life and going into a few directions, one of which is a US Marshall. I know I have a clean background and have made wise choices. I also know I have experienced a lot in life and do not take the decision of becoming a LEO lightly. For me I have done other things and been very successful but deep down have always wanted to be in law enforcement. I am still deciding if I want to really make that change at this stage of life. If you really had wanted to be a cop you would have never done those things you did in your past. I am not judging you but you need to sit back and think about it. If your about to die and you know your partner is the only one who can save your life but has not been the best he can be in his life are you going to feel as confident in him at that moment? I know I sure wouldn't be. I suggest you find a carrier or go to school to learn something you can be successful at.
i dunno... maybe it has something to do with the fact that my state is prohibited from giving applicants a polygraph, but yes- some cops have had shady pasts. I personally know two or three who had late-teen/early-adulthoods that were full of partying and marijuana use, and worse.
anybody telling this kid he'll "never" be a cop based on the history that he's given is incorrect, and an asshole. but most cops are. both. often.
by the numbers, he probably wont get hired. most who apply aren't cut out for it. it's a personality/intelligence thing. but *just* because he's made some tactical blunders doesn't mean he's unfit. once he grows up, gets some more years between himself and the dumbness, he may very well be a good candidate.
i wanna stand up and should "bullshit" every time i hear a cop go on and on about high moral standards and honesty and integrity. I've *witnessed* cops- cops who were supposed to be my shining example of "what a cop is"- outright lie for no better reason than to get out of a boring disturbance call. some would call them "white lies," but I'm not a Utilitarian- a lie is a lie is a lie.
i dunno... maybe it has something to do with the fact that my state is prohibited from giving applicants a polygraph, but yes- some cops have had shady pasts. I personally know two or three who had late-teen/early-adulthoods that were full of partying and marijuana use, and worse.
anybody telling this kid he'll "never" be a cop based on the history that he's given is incorrect, and an asshole. but most cops are. both. often.
by the numbers, he probably wont get hired. most who apply aren't cut out for it. it's a personality/intelligence thing. but *just* because he's made some tactical blunders doesn't mean he's unfit. once he grows up, gets some more years between himself and the dumbness, he may very well be a good candidate.
i wanna stand up and should "bullshit" every time i hear a cop go on and on about high moral standards and honesty and integrity. I've *witnessed* cops- cops who were supposed to be my shining example of "what a cop is"- outright lie for no better reason than to get out of a boring disturbance call. some would call them "white lies," but I'm not a Utilitarian- a lie is a lie is a lie.
lol.... :rolleyes:
i dunno... maybe it has something to do with the fact that my state is prohibited from giving applicants a polygraph, but yes- some cops have had shady pasts. I personally know two or three who had late-teen/early-adulthoods that were full of partying and marijuana use, and worse.
anybody telling this kid he'll "never" be a cop based on the history that he's given is incorrect, and an asshole. but most cops are. both. often.
by the numbers, he probably wont get hired. most who apply aren't cut out for it. it's a personality/intelligence thing. but *just* because he's made some tactical blunders doesn't mean he's unfit. once he grows up, gets some more years between himself and the dumbness, he may very well be a good candidate.
i wanna stand up and should "bullshit" every time i hear a cop go on and on about high moral standards and honesty and integrity. I've *witnessed* cops- cops who were supposed to be my shining example of "what a cop is"- outright lie for no better reason than to get out of a boring disturbance call. some would call them "white lies," but I'm not a Utilitarian- a lie is a lie is a lie.
This would be because you "know cops" as opposed to actually being a law enforcement officer or having anything to do with the hiring process, right?
I'll tell you this, with his background and drug use, I can say with 100% certainty that at the ripe old age of 24, he's assured himself of never being able to have a Federal 1811 job. That's right, there is ZERO chance of his getting hired.
When it comes to law enforcement, especially federal law enforcement, the "mistakes" made while growing up count. And certain things aren't forgiven, such as 4 to 5 years of heavy drug use.
He may well get a local LE job somewhere. However, if one were to look at the various agencies located within Arizona where he resides you will see that most all of the agencies have a very similar set of criteria. EXPERIMENTAL use of marijuana is acceptable. Smoking the green for 4-5 years is not considered experimental- it's pretty clear.
Having said that he would be well advised to enlist in the military. He would have the ability to learn some other skills, get some college education and grow up a little more. Maybe then he would have a chance down the road.
Many states allow for a pre-employment poly for personnel going into LE jobs so I am rather surprised that your state doesn't.
As for the cop bashing rant all I will say is that there are bad apples everywhere. Politics, LE, fire depts., military, contracting, etc...and it should in no way be indicative of the overall majority who do a good job.
i dunno... maybe it has something to do with the fact that my state is prohibited from giving applicants a polygraph, but yes- some cops have had shady pasts. I personally know two or three who had late-teen/early-adulthoods that were full of partying and marijuana use, and worse.
anybody telling this kid he'll "never" be a cop based on the history that he's given is incorrect, and an asshole. but most cops are. both. often.
by the numbers, he probably wont get hired. most who apply aren't cut out for it. it's a personality/intelligence thing. but *just* because he's made some tactical blunders doesn't mean he's unfit. once he grows up, gets some more years between himself and the dumbness, he may very well be a good candidate.
i wanna stand up and should "bullshit" every time i hear a cop go on and on about high moral standards and honesty and integrity. I've *witnessed* cops- cops who were supposed to be my shining example of "what a cop is"- outright lie for no better reason than to get out of a boring disturbance call. some would call them "white lies," but I'm not a Utilitarian- a lie is a lie is a lie.
I'm sure he still has until the age of 35 or 37 to get squared away for Federal LE. Given he has roughly ten years, he could learn multiple foreign languages and finance degrees in that time period possibly giving him and edge on other applicants, maybe even you.
Secondly, not everyone has their life planned out at 16,-18. Apparently you did, good for you. One question I have is how well do you actually know your partner's history, because unless there has been some breach in keeping hiring files confidential you have no real way of fully knowing. Hell, your current partner could have been someone just like him. I'm not current LE yet, so I'm just playing devil advocate.
i dunno... maybe it has something to do with the fact that my state is prohibited from giving applicants a polygraph, but yes- some cops have had shady pasts. I personally know two or three who had late-teen/early-adulthoods that were full of partying and marijuana use, and worse.
anybody telling this kid he'll "never" be a cop based on the history that he's given is incorrect, and an asshole. but most cops are. both. often.
by the numbers, he probably wont get hired. most who apply aren't cut out for it. it's a personality/intelligence thing. but *just* because he's made some tactical blunders doesn't mean he's unfit. once he grows up, gets some more years between himself and the dumbness, he may very well be a good candidate.
i wanna stand up and should "bullshit" every time i hear a cop go on and on about high moral standards and honesty and integrity. I've *witnessed* cops- cops who were supposed to be my shining example of "what a cop is"- outright lie for no better reason than to get out of a boring disturbance call. some would call them "white lies," but I'm not a Utilitarian- a lie is a lie is a lie.
Thats not what I took away from this thread. Fact is he may have a shot at it, depending on where / when he applies, but to sit here and blow sunshine up his ass in the name of lovey dovey feelings isn't really doing him or anyone else a favor. Saying don't worry everything will be great isn't true.
Several people (myself included) posted useful advice on how to increase his chances of getting hired.
As to cops lying. Well, unfortunately I've see that too. But this isn't about that; its about the chances of the OP getting hired in the first place.
Thats not what I took away from this thread. Fact is he may have a shot at it, depending on where / when he applies, but to sit here and blow sunshine up his ass in the name of lovey dovey feelings isn't really doing him or anyone else a favor. Saying don't worry everything will be great isn't true.
Several people (myself included) posted useful advice on how to increase his chances of getting hired.
As to cops lying. Well, unfortunately I've see that too. But this isn't about that; its about the chances of the OP getting hired in the first place.
nobody is talking about feelings- as i've said a couple times, he probably won't get hired, even if by numbers alone. it's an exlusive club. my point is that it's incorrect to tell this kid that it's impossible for him to become a cop, then to be insulting by going on about his untrustworthiness- his unworthiness- because of childish mistakes made most likely years before his frontal lobe is fully capable of truly grasping the consequences of actions. especially in light of the fact that cops- while mostly upstanding citizens- are not any *better* people than the rest of us upstanding citizens. they just interview better and didn't get caught as much growing up.
anybody telling this kid he'll "never" be a cop based on the history that he's given is incorrect, and an asshole. but most cops are. both. often.
If you haven't hired, supervised, disciplined, fired, or otherwise been responsible for LEOs, you're out of your lane.
A wide variety of LE agencies were represented in the responses. Federal, state, local, major metro, and BFE. He hasn't lost all opportunities, but many. Possibly most. There are some that will give him a second chance.
This isn't a cop bashing thread. Take it elsewhere.
I'm sure he still has until the age of 35 or 37 to get squared away for Federal LE. Given he has roughly ten years, he could learn multiple foreign languages and finance degrees in that time period possibly giving him and edge on other applicants, maybe even you.
Secondly, not everyone has their life planned out at 16,-18. Apparently you did, good for you. One question I have is how well do you actually know your partner's history, because unless there has been some breach in keeping hiring files confidential you have no real way of fully knowing. Hell, your current partner could have been someone just like him. I'm not current LE yet, so I'm just playing devil advocate.
No, I assure you, the extent of his marijuana abuse has eliminated any chance he had of getting most, if not all, 1811 Federal LE jobs. It doesn't matter if he speaks 7 languages and has been clean forever after. That's just a fact.
anybody telling this kid he'll "never" be a cop based on the history that he's given is incorrect, and an asshole. but most cops are. both. often.
i wanna stand up and should "bullshit" every time i hear a cop go on and on about high moral standards and honesty and integrity. I've *witnessed* cops- cops who were supposed to be my shining example of "what a cop is"- outright lie for no better reason than to get out of a boring disturbance call. some would call them "white lies," but I'm not a Utilitarian- a lie is a lie is a lie.
Why don't you do something about it then, instead of ranting about it? Why don't you become a cop, go to internal affairs, and bust "dirty" cops for white lies since it bothers you so much?
It takes intestinal fortitude to stand up for what you think is right. Why didn't you say something to the cop or to a supervisor when you were on your ride-a-long? You are a citizen and were a potential candidate, right?
Sounds like you got DQ'd and have a bone to pick with LE. But maybe I'm just generalizing/stereotyping, something you seem to have a problem with. So my apologies.
No, I assure you, the extent of his marijuana abuse has eliminated any chance he had of getting most, if not all, 1811 Federal LE jobs. It doesn't matter if he speaks 7 languages and has been clean forever after. That's just a fact.
Exactly. The proximity issue is not a concern anymore. The frequency of which he has partook in illegal drugs has DQed him forever from every LE position I'm familiar with.
Like I said in my first post, I've seen stranger things happen but those situations had some extenuating circumstances attached to them and never worked out in the long run.
cop bashing? ho-ly shit.
I've tried to make two points-
1. This kid isn't necessarily disqualified from a career in law enforcement, if he gets his shit together and joins the Army or gets a degree.
2. All this self-righteous rhetoric about cops having chose a life of correctness and morality to get hired seems typical of the kind of hypocritical dickhead cop that soured ME to pursuing the Job.
The LE community is an exclusive club by nature. It's a personality/intelligence thing, as I said- but just because you got hired doesn't mean you're a saint. and it sure as hell doesn't make you one.
And no- I did not "DQ." I never applied. Whether or not I would have been hired is debatable, and your opinion is predictable.
cop bashing? ho-ly shit.
I've tried to make two points-
1. This kid isn't necessarily disqualified from a career in law enforcement, if he gets his shit together and joins the Army or gets a degree.
And what, exactly, do you base your opinion on?
The REAL point is that people who actually know a thing or two about how LE hiring works have said that he's most definitely disqualified from pursuing Federal LE, and he's a long shot, at best, for local LE. As he stands right now, he's got almost no shot at all.
2. All this self-righteous rhetoric about cops having chose a life of correctness and morality to get hired seems typical of the kind of hypocritical dickhead cop that soured ME to pursuing the Job.
The LE community is an exclusive club by nature. It's a personality/intelligence thing, as I said- but just because you got hired doesn't mean you're a saint. and it sure as hell doesn't make you one.
And no- I did not "DQ." I never applied. Whether or not I would have been hired is debatable, and your opinion is predictable.
And what's your basis of knowing what goes on in this "exclusive club" again?
Nobody is spouting self-righteous rhetoric here, except maybe YOU. What the original poster is getting from the LEOs (whose opinion he specifically asked for) is their opinion of his chances based on what he's written and based on what we happen to know about actually getting hired by a LE organization. As Skintop pointed out, you're way out of your lane.
Some great post have been made but to prevent this thread from hitting rock bottom or to save one of the moderators from babysitting it I'm going to close it.
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