PRIVI PARTISAN? [Archive] - M4Carbine.net Forums

markm

11-14-08, 07:30

WOLF M193 loaded by Priv was crap. They were running the WRONG propellant.

The current PRIV M193 is pretty good. I've read accounts both ways on the fragmentation issue though. Some have got it to frag, some haven't.

If the 20 round box says "WOLF" on it, it's the old stuff that kinda sucks. I think most of that ammo is gone though. You'll probably only find the PRIV M193 at most dealers now.

Dave L.

11-14-08, 08:18

I just ordered 8 boxes of the 75 grain stuff from G&R- heard it was the she-ite.

Iraqgunz

11-14-08, 08:55

Well while I was on R/R we received a few hundred thousand rounds of Bulgarian 5.56 SS109 equivalent. It is causing problems in the Bushamster carbines just like the Prvi Partizan M855 stuff did. Blown primers and anvils, failures to extract, etc...I am starting to wonder if it is the carbines and not the ammo. A couple of theories floated around that the load may not be suitable for the M4gery.

When we fired it iin our new Bulgarian 5.56 AR M1's they had zero issues. Anyone want to chime in on this?

Jay Cunningham

11-14-08, 09:17

I shot the Privi exclusively in the Low Light 2 class - not a high round count class, but the ammo seemed just fine.

Iraqgunz

11-14-08, 09:21

I am going to order (2) of Ned Christiansons chamber reamers and check some of the carbines. I have a suspicion that maybe Bushamster bamboozled us and the chambers are not true 5.56. Though we have had no issues with the Lake City MILSPEC stuff that we procured.

markm

11-14-08, 13:03

Though we have had no issues with the Lake City MILSPEC stuff that we procured.

The ammo has got to be a big part of the problem. For whatever reason, these foreign companies can not dial 5.56 powder in worth a shit.

jmart

11-14-08, 14:45

From what I understand, Prvi is the mfg and Wolf is the distributor. Wolf doesn't mfg anything. They contract out to various mfg's (mostly, if not all, eastern bloc) and have ammo made. Wolf simply distributes and markets it.

I recall the issues with the early Prvi M193 ammo, but unless Wolf required Prvi to mfg it using a specific powder, I suspect any flaws would have been on Prvi. Maybe Wolf back doored them into a spec by specifying a price point, but Prvi in the end was the mfg.

From what I understand, their current lots are GTG. Maybe they learned along the way.

markm

11-14-08, 15:16

Yes. Wolf had nothing to do with it. But that's how the ammo can easily be identified.

decodeddiesel

11-14-08, 15:50

I've fired about 2 cases of PRVI over the past 6 months, one M193 one M855, with absolutely zero issues out of my LMT and my Saiga AK-101. It is quality ammo.

Iraqgunz

11-14-08, 18:08

Both the Prvi Partizan SS109 and the Bulgarian SS109 worked great in the new Bulgarian 5.56's that we bought from Arsenal Bulgaria in Kazanlak.

NoBody

11-14-08, 18:12

Deleted.

my65swede@yahoo.com

11-16-08, 17:27

Privi has NATO contracts. Good stuff.

Failure2Stop

11-16-08, 18:08

Privi has NATO contracts. Good stuff.

Do you have a reference for that?
Not saying that you are wrong, just looking for data.

my65swede@yahoo.com

11-17-08, 00:52

If you do a google search there's quite a bit of info out there on the subject. This ammo is sometimes mistakenly refferred to as "Bosnian M193 or Bosnian M855 GTP" It's not Bosnian-it's Serbian. If you want something like an award contract letter I don't have it. But really, there is a lot of info about their nato headstamped ammo. Sometimes you can get some from cheaper than dirt (they have it from time to time, but more often they have Ingman which is also super quality ammo). They don't just make 5.56 either: www.prvipartizan.com/ [I]....need cannon ammo? They make it.

Iraqgunz

11-17-08, 11:01

Swede,

I'd really love to see where you can show that they have a NATO contract. Don't believe what you read on the errornet. The Igman ammunition is manufactured in Bosnia Herzegovina allegedly to a NATO spec- it doesn't mean anything else. If the headstamp has a circle with the cross in the center that would indicate that it is indeed NATO spec. Also, in order for the ammo to carry a real M855 designator it would have had to have been tested and approved (and I believe adopted) by the U.S military. It has not.

Prvi Partizan ammunition is manufactured Uzice, Serbia. I have over 230K of it here that was made in the last few years and we purchased it directly from Serbia and it does not have a NATO headstamp. It comes in plain white boxes and it listed as SS109. SS109 and M855 are not mutually exclusive. All M855 is SS109 (characteristics) not all SS109 is M855.

If you do a google search there's quite a bit of info out there on the subject. This ammo is sometimes mistakenly refferred to as "Bosnian M193 or Bosnian M855 GTP" It's not Bosnian-it's Serbian. If you want something like an award contract letter I don't have it. But really, there is a lot of info about their nato headstamped ammo. Sometimes you can get some from cheaper than dirt (they have it from time to time, but more often they have Ingman which is also super quality ammo). They don't just make 5.56 either: www.prvipartizan.com/ [I]....need cannon ammo? They make it.

Iraqgunz

11-19-08, 06:51

Some of you may remember a previous thread (you can read it here as well) about ammunition malfunctions that we were experiencing with our Bushamster 14.5" select fire carbines when shooting Prvi Partizan 62gr. SS109 ammunition as well a Bulgarian produced 62gr. SS109 ammunition.

The more I looked into the issue the more I started to believe that we may have issues with the weapons themselves and not the ammunition. One theory is that the chambers were not really 5.56 and that was causing the blown primers and anvils, failures to extract, etc...

A few days ago I built an upper utilizing a Colt MILSPEC 1/7 twist 14.5" barrel that was brand new. I utilized an H buffer, full auto bolt carrier and slipped an O-ring under the extractor. All testing took place at 25M death.

First magazine contained the PP 62gr. ammo being fired in semi auto. The first malfunction happened at approx. round number (6). The primer had blown and then lodged itself in the lugs of the barrel extension after the next round had chambered. I cleared the malfucntion and continued firing. I fired a few more and then switched to "Oh Shit". While firing in auto the weapon functioned w/o issue.

Dumped the empty mag and then loaded the mag with the Bulgy 62gr. ammo. I fired several bursts in auto and then went back to semi. One malfunction occured at this point in which the primer appears to have been struck with no ignition.

The other tester and myself continued this until all magazines were empty with a small break at about magazine number (6). In all we fired 12 magazines loaded to 28 rounds. One round had a delayed ignition and went off just as he was was getting ready to clear the malfunction. We also had a few more rounds with light primer strikes that did not fire. In all there were approx. 6 rounds that malfunctioned out of 336 rounds fired.

Once we receive our chamber reamer from Ned Christiansen we will run it through a few of our carbines and then conduct more testing.

markm

11-19-08, 07:16

Wow! A hangfire eh? That's scary.

I'm convinced it's the ammo. Guns that run fine on LC ammo, but not on the foreign crapola?

It could be a combo of things though. Strange pressure curves from the jookie ammo combined with slightly out of spec chambers maybe.

Iraqgunz

11-19-08, 09:38

Markm,

Don't be getting all technical and shit on me. Yes, and to confuse the issue more we had no malfunctions at all with the Bulgarian 5.56 AK's that we bought. I understand that they are a different operating system, but wouldn't the chamber have to be correct?

If anyone else has any thoughts on this then I would love to hear it.

Wow! A hangfire eh? That's scary.

I'm convinced it's the ammo. Guns that run fine on LC ammo, but not on the foreign crapola?

It could be a combo of things though. Strange pressure curves from the jookie ammo combined with slightly out of spec chambers maybe.

decodeddiesel

11-19-08, 10:24

Man that's odd you're having so many malfunctions with this ammo. I know I sound like a broken record but it's been flawless for me. Albeit I do not have a FA to fire it out of, but I certianly have not been bench shooting with it either. I've been running PRVI hard out of my AK and my LMT doing drills and "practical shooting". Never a hitch. Man, that hang fire is damn scary.

panzerr

11-19-08, 12:12

Does PP have crimped primers? If the brass is good, I wouldn't mind getting a few thousand rounds, shooting it up and reloading the brass.

markm

11-19-08, 12:27

Yes on the crimps. The brass is great for reloading though.

Parabellum9x19mm

11-19-08, 13:38

the 55 grain ammo is GTG

the 62 grain ammo has been plauged with problems it seems. i've never heard of a hangfire before, but people have been complaining of other issues with it on the ammo/reloading forum.

i wouldn't use the stuff, especially on select fire... and this is coming from someone who shoots mostly 55 and 75 grain PRVI.

panzerr

11-19-08, 14:21

Yes on the crimps. The brass is great for reloading though.

roger...thank you

Iraqgunz

11-20-08, 08:22

A follow up to yesterdays range test with the Prvi Partizan and Bulgarian SS109 ammunition.

This was an impromptu test that I did just after I finished test firing (4) of our new Bulgarian PKM's. Inspected yesterdays test weapon, ran a rod down the barrel with a clean, dry patch, ran a chamber brush through the chamber and applied more Militec. The first (4) magazines (28rds. each) consisted of Prvi Partizan 62gr. SS109 ammunition. The first (10) rounds or so were fired in semi auto. Switched over to "Oh shit" mode and fired short bursts until all (4) magazines were expended. No malfunctions occured. The next (2) magazines (28rds. each) consisted of Bulgarian 62gr. SS109 ammunition. Again, the first few rounds were fired in semi, and then in auto. No malfunctions occured. The last magazine was LC M855 ammuntion. Magazine was expended firing short bursts in auto mode. There was a slight difference in the feel of the M855 as opposed to the others. It seemed as if it had a little more juice to it. In all 196 rounds were expended today with zero malfunctions observed utilizing a MILSPEC, Colt, 1/7 twist, 14.5 inch barreled upper receiver.

DM-SC

11-20-08, 09:17

the 62 grain ammo has been plauged with problems it seems. i've never heard of a hangfire before, but people have been complaining of other issues with it on the ammo/reloading forum.

i wouldn't use the stuff, especially on select fire... and this is coming from someone who shoots mostly 55 and 75 grain PRVI.

Is that the same for both the steel core 62gr and the SP 62gr?

Parabellum9x19mm

11-20-08, 19:09

Is that the same for both the steel core 62gr and the SP 62gr?

i don't know. i've only heard about the steel penetrator 62 M855 type.

this is all going by stuff i've read on M4C. i've never bought PRVI 62 before, so i'm not going to put second hand info out there. try a search here and see what you find.

going off of what i read, i don't want to be bothered with running it myself, that's all i know. especially not when the 55 and 75 stuff has been good to me.

Gunfighter13

11-20-08, 19:36

markm

11-20-08, 20:14

If you check the chamber you will find that your gun is .223 not 5.56. :eek:

Perhaps. It may be a contributing factor. But the fact is these foreign bananas can't dial in a 5.56 propellant for SHIT! The keep proving it time and time again.

gyp_c2

11-20-08, 21:49

...I dunno...I bought and shot 400 of the 62gr green tip when I first heard of it...It went through a cleaned and lubed, stock 6920 and was positively boring in function @ 100%...I shot up some of my Winchester green tips during the same day and couldn't feel any difference between the two...I did not chrono them, but they are warm...clays at 50m were boring as well...
I bought another 1000 from the same lot and called it good, I use the PP-55 for class and practice...it's also reliable and reasonably accurate...all were '07 stamped from Wideners...
The most accurate I've used for comparison is Black Hills red box...the 5.56 Tap is all-that...but I don't have any more children for sale...http://emoticons4u.com/smoking/rauch06.gif

Gunfighter13

11-20-08, 22:39

Perhaps. It may be a contributing factor. But the fact is these foreign bananas can't dial in a 5.56 propellant for SHIT! The keep proving it time and time again.

I don't know? I have shot thousands of rounds or PP-55gr, PP-62gr, and close to 500 rounds of the 75gr with no issues. They seem to be doing an OK job as far as I can tell. ;)

Iraqgunz

11-21-08, 03:57

Gunfighter,

Have you been following this thread? If so, then would know that the barrels are marked 5.56 and according to Bushmaster all the chambers are correct. I have also headspaced them with a 5.56 FIELD gage and they appear to be good.

The next step will be to check the chamber with Ned Christiansens 5.56 chamber reamer to see if they are in fact 5.56 chambers.

If you check the chamber you will find that your gun is .223 not 5.56. :eek:

markm

11-21-08, 06:21

I don't know? I have shot thousands of rounds or PP-55gr, PP-62gr, and close to 500 rounds of the 75gr with no issues. They seem to be doing an OK job as far as I can tell. ;)

A lot of people have had good luck with it. But the number of problems you read about the foreign ammos far exceeds the number of reports you read about even UMC ammo. PMC, PRIV, IGMAN, RADWAY, etc. ALL have had problematic batches.

I've personally had or witnessed problems with all of the above ammos except Igman. I wouldn't take igman ammo for free.

I've had decent luck with the current PRIV M193 though.

Iraqgunz

11-24-08, 13:54

Here is the synopsis from the 3rd test that I have conducted. Thus far I have put 812 rounds through the Colt MILSPEC barrel upper.

This is the third test being conducted utilizing a Colt, 14.5 inch, 1/7 twist MILSPEC barrel upper receiver group. Prior to this test I inspected the upper for any damage, ran a clean dry patch down the barrel and lightly cleaned the chamber area with a chamber brush. Weapon was re-lubricated and no other cleaning was performed. Additionally I used Bushmaster carbine, ser. # LXXXXXX which is assigned to me for comparison testing. This carbine has a Bushmaster 14.5 inch, 1/9 twist barrel. This weapon was lubricated in the same manner as the other weapon. The first part of the test was conducted with the Bushmaster carbine. 10 magazines were loaded with (28) rounds each. (5) of the magazines contained Prvi Partizan SS109 and (5) contained the Bulgarian SS109 ammunition. The first few rounds were fired in semi auto mode and then in full auto mode. The first malfunction was a popped primer during the second burst of fire. Malfunction was cleared and continued shooting. Throughout the test with the Prvi Partizan ammunition there were approximately (5) failures to fire. Some had indications of light primer strikes, others did not.

The next test was conducted with the Bulgarian SS109 ammunition. All rounds were fired in full auto mode utilizing short bursts. During this part of the test several failures to fire were experienced. After expending all (10) magazines I then loaded (1) magazine with Lake City MILPSEC M855 ammunition. All rounds were expended in full auto mode with no malfunctions.

The same test protocol was used with the Colt, 14.5 inch, 1/7 twist MILSPEC barrel upper receiver group. All (10) magazines were expended as indicated above and there were no malfunctions encountered with either the Prvi Partizan or the Bulgarian SS109 ammunition.

Gunfighter13

11-24-08, 14:05

Gunfighter,

Have you been following this thread? If so, then would know that the barrels are marked 5.56 and according to Bushmaster all the chambers are correct. I have also headspaced them with a 5.56 FIELD gage and they appear to be good.

The next step will be to check the chamber with Ned Christiansens 5.56 chamber reamer to see if they are in fact 5.56 chambers.

That would be the correct way. And yes I've been following along. Bushmaster can stamp anything on their barrels they want it does not mean that what they stamp is correct. I've seen to many Bushmater guns with 5.56 marked barrels and in fact they were .223.

Iraqgunz

11-24-08, 14:38

I understand that. If you read my previous post(s) you will see that I doubted Bushamster and that is why I decided to get the chamber reamer and check the chamber myself.

That would be the correct way. And yes I've been following along. Bushmaster can stamp anything on their barrels they want it does not mean that what they stamp is correct. I've seen to many Bushmater guns with 5.56 marked barrels and in fact they were .223.

Gunfighter13

11-24-08, 23:21

A lot of people have had good luck with it. But the number of problems you read about the foreign ammos far exceeds the number of reports you read about even UMC ammo. PMC, PRIV, IGMAN, RADWAY, etc. ALL have had problematic batches.

I've personally had or witnessed problems with all of the above ammos except Igman. I wouldn't take igman ammo for free.

I've had decent luck with the current PRIV M193 though.

I checked my book and the oldest lot was from 05. So I will recant and say no problems from the lots I have shot, the oldest being from 05. Also have shot a few thousand rounds of 06/07 lots of 308 WIN that have done well to.

RWK

11-25-08, 21:52

The next step will be to check the chamber with Ned Christiansens 5.56 chamber reamer to see if they are in fact 5.56 chambers.

You may already know but, Ned's chamber reamer is known to be a bit tight and will often take some metal out of even 5.56 chambers. The difference is whether you remove just a little metal or a lot of metal. Just an FYI...

Ned Christiansen

11-25-08, 22:53

It is indeed a bit "big" and can be expected to shave a bit even on a 5.56 NATO chamber. I think of it as 5.56 to the high side.

Gunz, regarding the misfires, I believe the new S&W AR in 5.45X39 has an extra-strong hammer spring. Wonder if your guns ought to be equipped with them.... or if maybe a little bendy-bendy on standard springs would do the trick....Lord knows plenty of guys bend them the other way (to lighten them).

Iraqgunz

11-26-08, 01:10

Initially only a few guns will be reamed and then we will re-evaluate was necessary. As for bending a spring that wouldn't be a good idea since it would then alter the spring-kind of like stretching mag springs. It's a good thought but serves no purpose. I am willing to ream the chamber to solve this ammo problem but other than that I won't be dicking around. We will just have to procure more MILSPEC ammo from another source.

It is indeed a bit "big" and can be expected to shave a bit even on a 5.56 NATO chamber. I think of it as 5.56 to the high side.

Gunz, regarding the misfires, I believe the new S&W AR in 5.45X39 has an extra-strong hammer spring. Wonder if your guns ought to be equipped with them.... or if maybe a little bendy-bendy on standard springs would do the trick....Lord knows plenty of guys bend them the other way (to lighten them).

pm40

11-21-09, 12:30

I know this thread is about a year old,but is the new or at least the currently ordered Wolf Gold .223 75 gr HP (PP) stuff any good? I sure hope so ,I just ordered 1000 rounds of it.

Safetyhit

11-21-09, 17:41

I know this thread is about a year old,but is the new or at least the currently ordered Wolf Gold .223 75 gr HP (PP) stuff any good? I sure hope so ,I just ordered 1000 rounds of it.

Aside from burning a bit dirty, should be ok. Never heard of it being underpowered enough to cause feed issues or such.

Don't think I would consider potential MOA the same as with Black Hill's, though. But that is pure speculation based on general feedback over the years, not personal experience with the round.

chadbag

11-21-09, 19:00

Aside from burning a bit dirty, should be ok. Never heard of it being underpowered enough to cause feed issues or such.

Just FYI: Wolf Gold is not WOLF the steel cased stuff. Wolf Gold, at least in other calibers, is really PRVI made for WOLF. I have a bunch in 303 and 6.5x55 and it is all brass cased reloadable with PRVI headstamps

Safetyhit

11-21-09, 19:15

Just FYI: Wolf Gold is not WOLF the steel cased stuff. Wolf Gold, at least in other calibers, is really PRVI made for WOLF. I have a bunch in 303 and 6.5x55 and it is all brass cased reloadable with PRVI headstamps

Appreciate the clarification, might come in handy. Thank-you.

Heavy Metal

11-21-09, 20:10

The ammo has got to be a big part of the problem. For whatever reason, these foreign companies can not dial 5.56 powder in worth a shit.

I shot a shit-ton of Hansen(Privi Partisan) M193 back in the mid-late 80's thru a 20 inch AR. It was quality stuff for me, I would have staked my life on it.

I wonder what happened? Mabey we killed their QC dept when Clinton bombled the plant.