View Full Version : More Threatening Red Flag Law Activity
RobertTheTexan
08-31-19, 09:40
Family filed civil suit under Indiana's Red Flag law.
https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/family-of-slain-judge-files-suit-under-indiana-red-flag-law-558747311.html
Thanks pstk5088 for the heads up on this.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-31-19, 10:08
Really interesting. I don't see how it can hold up in court, and if it did I don't know why the red flag law would be part of it. That is my major issue with red flag laws- we already have laws that deal with demented and violent people. Maybe the red flag laws make it more streamlined to address them, but the inherent legal structure is there.
Now this interpretation of the Red Flag law is interesting. It seems that any level of culpability would have some kind of legal exposure under existing laws, unless there is something explicitly in the red flag law saying that people have to act. I haven't heard of any 'requirement to report under penalty' in any of these laws. I'm guessing that the laws would be a lot less unpopular if for every shooter that gets caught, people are being hauled before a court about what they knew and when.
Here's hoping that it gets thrown out quick. Let's see if this kind of culpability ends up in newer versions.
Why stop at gun violence? Why not child molesters? Why not hold your cell phone company culpable for letting phones work at highway speeds? Let G-ma drive and she kills someone, off you go. Hell, why do cars have to go faster than the speed limit- the car makers could fight that?
I might watch "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" tonight for a preview of what is to come.
SomeOtherGuy
08-31-19, 22:38
The lawsuit comes after the shooting death of former Judge Tracy Edward Page, who was killed in a brutal shooting last year. Page’s brother Paul and his husband Kevin Swanson filed the lawsuit in Lake County circuit court on Thursday, demanding that the family of Bill Landske, the gunman in the slaying, be held accountable for his actions under the state’s “Red Flag” law.
That law allows police to take guns from owners if their behavior becomes dangerous or raises “red flags,” and the suit alleges that the law should have been applied to Landske.
“The family of Bill Landske knew that he was dangerous, they knew he was demented and untethered, and they knew he was prone to outbursts of rage-filled profanity,” attorney Ken Allen said.
This pretty much turns centuries of jurisprudence upside down. I imagine that's the goal of what seems to be a blatantly politically-motivated, politically-oriented lawsuit. Turn the populace into mandatory snitches under penalty of law. East Germany would be so proud!
I also question ordinary standing here. I'm not even sure if the brother has standing for a loss of consortium claim - historically that was only for husband-wife, though now in some jurisdictions it can also be for parent-child.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_of_consortium
I don't see any obvious way that the brother's husband (so stated) would have standing. Maybe that's also a goal of this novel suit.
platoonDaddy
09-01-19, 09:59
this shit is getting out of hand! Wonder what the FBI has to do with a State Red Flag Law?
Remarks against Antifa prompt FBI seizure of former Marine’s weapons under Oregon’s ‘red flag’ law: reports
https://www.foxnews.com/us/former-marines-weapons-seized-under-oregons-red-flag-law-after-remarks-about-antifa-report
Now is the time to stop having friends.
platoonDaddy
09-01-19, 11:21
this shit is getting out of hand! Wonder what the FBI has to do with a State Red Flag Law?
https://www.foxnews.com/us/former-marines-weapons-seized-under-oregons-red-flag-law-after-remarks-about-antifa-report
???? Why would you take someone’s gun if they said they would use them in self-defense? I thought the FBI investigated violations of the law (in criminal cases). Seems like a very bad direction for the FBI. He committed no crimes.
In the Parkland shooting, the subject said he would kill shooting up a school and they took no action. Here the guy said he would act in self-defense and they take his gun and commit him for psychiatric evaluation. Self defense is a mental instability
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-01-19, 14:36
They think the Bill of Rights is a punch card....
Say you’ll defend yourself, get your 2A punch. He is barred attending other rallies, 1A punched. Committed for 20 days, 5A punched. Who knows when he’ll get his property back, 4A punched. Pretty efficient.
The FBI getting into state crimes is a bit concerning.
RobertTheTexan
09-01-19, 14:42
It’s a soup sandwich brothers. Nothing short of a soup sandwich. I wish I had to time to sit down and create a roadmap that captures all these violations of common sense and our freedom from all over the country, for a couple of reasons. One just to chart their progress because there’s probably something to glean from that besides the obvious, and secondly to use it as a wake up call to individuals who for whatever reason cannot see ”the writing on the wall” (Dan. 5:5, which is probably far more analogous to our time than we think.). Where’s 26_Inf when you need him... [emoji848] :)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Let’s just go for it and have a Department of Pre-Crime and start doing constant checks of social media, finances, credit, arms owned, recent arms purchased, publications owned, publications purchased and start issuing Social Credit. If a person gets below a certain level they are more stringently surveilled and past that they are given a pre-emptive mental health screening and curtilage of all properties owned, inhabited, or acquainted are searched.
If it just saves one life...
Let’s just go for it and have a Department of Pre-Crime and start doing constant checks of social media, finances, credit, arms owned, recent arms purchased, publications owned, publications purchased and start issuing Social Credit. If a person gets below a certain level they are more stringently surveilled and past that they are given a pre-emptive mental health screening and curtilage of all properties owned, inhabited, or acquainted are searched.
If it just saves one life...
Thats kinda of Orwellian...
Thats kinda of Orwellian...
AH! Being familiar with Orwell’s 1984 and questioning Pre-Crime. What do you have to hide, sir?
Let’s just go for it and have a Department of Pre-Crime and start doing constant checks of social media, finances, credit, arms owned, recent arms purchased, publications owned, publications purchased and start issuing Social Credit. If a person gets below a certain level they are more stringently surveilled and past that they are given a pre-emptive mental health screening and curtilage of all properties owned, inhabited, or acquainted are searched.
If it just saves one life...
Oy! Mate, are you up on your prozium??
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Let’s just go for it and have a Department of Pre-Crime and start doing constant checks of social media, finances, credit, arms owned, recent arms purchased, publications owned, publications purchased and start issuing Social Credit. If a person gets below a certain level they are more stringently surveilled and past that they are given a pre-emptive mental health screening and curtilage of all properties owned, inhabited, or acquainted are searched.
If it just saves one life...
Stasi 2.0. Has a ring to it and they can harken back to their roots of protecting the State from free men.
RobertTheTexan
09-01-19, 16:02
Thats kinda of Orwellian...
Or Vanilla Skyish or whatever that stupid movie Tom Cruise did.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Actually it was based on a book from the 50s written by the guy who came up with Total Recall and Blade Runner and everyone called him a Communist because surely nothing like that would happen in the good ol USA
ramairthree
09-01-19, 17:30
The Red Flag Laws are a bigger threat than the AWB was.
We already have a mental health issue commitment system.
It already gets abused by parents, grandparents, lovers, spouses, etc. to no end.
Just use the current system.
It may ruin innocent lives and careers, but at a smoldering kind of in the background level/low rate. The bulk of it is used appropriately for good.
We have opened up the doors to political officers whisking away gun owners with no innocent until proven guilty or anything close to constitutional protections.
The Red Flag Laws are a bigger threat than the AWB was.
We already have a mental health issue commitment system.
It already gets abused by parents, grandparents, lovers, spouses, etc. to no end.
Just use the current system.
It may ruin innocent lives and careers, but at a smoldering kind of in the background level/low rate. The bulk of it is used appropriately for good.
We have opened up the doors to political officers whisking away gun owners with no innocent until proven guilty or anything close to constitutional protections.
In a short time we have come from a justice system that said "better to let a 100 guilty men free than imprison 1 innocent man" to "better to imprison 100 innocent men than let 1 guilty man free".
The Red Flag Laws are a bigger threat than the AWB was.
We already have a mental health issue commitment system.
It already gets abused by parents, grandparents, lovers, spouses, etc. to no end.
Just use the current system.
It may ruin innocent lives and careers, but at a smoldering kind of in the background level/low rate. The bulk of it is used appropriately for good.
We have opened up the doors to political officers whisking away gun owners with no innocent until proven guilty or anything close to constitutional protections.
This.
Piss off your wife/gf? Goon squad
Make boss feel “uncomfortable”? Goon squad
At high school and teacher doesn’t like you? Goon squad
Neighbor pissed? Goon squad
And the prevailing model is the ‘Angry White Male’.
Disgruntled with how society is getting and bitching about it too much? Goon squad.
Yet if we look at the totality of murders the active killings are not done by Angry White Males. You just have what you’ve always had. A person snapping and going on a fit. That’s nigh unavoidable short of locking everyone up or putting them on brainkillers like we are in a Vonnegut novel.
If I told you there were gonna be 30 dead in Chicago nobody bats an eye, ho hum. But if we get into demographics we see who is being singled out for this and why.
I have stated that there are two groups who never worry. The super rich and the super poor.
Everyone in the middle is 3 good skipped meals or traffic tickets away from being ruined. We are ultimately switching Jim Crow with James Dove.
This has very much to do with changing voter eligibility as well as a means of self defense.
Everyone is getting sold out to keep people in office. We have a lot of relatively younger and non traditional congress people who want to be there for the next 20 years and outspokenness and broadcasting that you are armed makes you a target.
That’s why they keep pumping us full of potential voters with no stake in this country.
Convenient. You never hear of the gang or the cartel getting red flagged. “We cannot jump to conclusions!”
If you actually listen to the lawmakers now they aren’t making any secret as to who they see as a threat. “Duurr they are just stupid Democrats let’s just keep voting Republican everybody”
How naive. Look at who is also pounding the drum to strip you of your due process.
I mean...... life would be easy if we could say “The bad guys are in there” and haul them off. But I then ask, at what price tyranny?
A gilded cage is still a cage. A great surrender has already happened and we are just now getting the word. This was nothing new. This has been around for 60-70 years.
What good are you if you are armed and ostensibly prepared to buck back against sweeping overreach of power? You aren’t going to vote the ‘right way’ and thus you become a problem.
And there is nothing you can do.
The very people we voted for to turn it around simply turned it back on us.
If we had another Smedley Butler, he’d be tossed in the loony bin.
Per Antifa, you were all told 10 years ago, “A force equal to or greater than the military or police.” Were you really thinking about obvious UN forces or guys with tanks? The American Left has been flirting with the European black bloc for decades now.
At every large city, no matter what your message; you will see Antifa. They are protected and are positively represented in the media.
Look who goes to jail in these upsets and who doesn’t.
So....there it is.
“We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we've set. We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded.”
—Barack Obama
July 2nd, 2008
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-01-19, 19:54
I'm starting to see the Red Flag laws working in concert with their 'limbo lower' on mag limits and other 'registration schemes'. Lower the mag limit with out grandfathering of previously owned mags and there are a lot of people that don't even know or ignore the law. Get "Red Flagged" and they take everything and guess what they find...
That is how the do the 'door-to-door' under the guise of red flag. Small, but targeted and nearly random. Just one tool for them to use on anyone that opens their mouth. And you vets are double screwed in that you are 'extra' dangerous because of your training.
ramairthree
09-02-19, 10:16
AH! Being familiar with Orwell’s 1984 and questioning Pre-Crime. What do you have to hide, sir?
It’s like government has gotten so good at keeping our attention with a giant, loud, flashing right hand,
Anyone paying attention to the invisible left hand with a molecule thin blade sinister sneaking under the rib cage from behind is suspect.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/california-expands-gun-seizure-law
California Democratic Gov. Gavin Newsom signed 15 gun-related bills into law Friday, tightening the state's already-stringent Second Amendment restrictions.
One of the bills, which expands a so-called "red flag" law to allow co-workers, employers and educators to seek gun violence restraining orders against firearms owners they fear are a danger to themselves and others, was vetoed twice by Newsom's predecessor, Jerry Brown.
Newsom also signed a companion bill allowing the gun violence restraining orders to last one and five years, although the gun owners could petition to end those restrictions earlier. The bill also allows judges to issue search warrants at the same time as they grant the orders. The warrants can be used immediately if the gun owners are served with the relinquishment orders but fail to turn over the firearms or ammunition.
So you haven’t been accused of committing, are thought to have committed, a crime. Nor is there any probable cause that you’ve committed a crime. Yet on the word of people who don’t know you at all, you will lose your 4th amendment and your 2nd amendment guaranteed rights for up to 5 years.
Get out of Kalifornia before they start sending you deplorables to a gulag. I’m serious. Get out.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/california-expands-gun-seizure-law
So you haven’t been accused of committing, are thought to have committed, a crime. Nor is there any probable cause that you’ve committed a crime. Yet on the word of people who don’t know you at all, you will lose your 4th amendment and your 2nd amendment guaranteed rights for up to 5 years.
Get out of Kalifornia before they start sending you deplorables to a gulag. I’m serious. Get out.
Even the American Communist Lawyers Union (ACLU) is crying foul on the CA law.
Even the American Communist Lawyers Union (ACLU) is crying foul on the CA law.
I was pleasantly surprised.
This “law” won’t do anything besides push Californian gun owners underground. They won’t speak about any of it to ANYONE. Which honestly, should probably be SOP anyway . . . not smart at all to go telling acquaintances and co-workers etc private information such as the fact that you own weapons
People need to just keep quiet, go for a walk, have a good workout at the gym, bang the GF or wife...etc....
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-13-19, 19:57
Since we don’t have a gun registry to check against, and someone could’ve just have a gun outside of the registry, doesn’t this mean that the red flag laws mean that anyone’s house can be searched if they are considered to be a threat? Because everybody could have a gun? Right?
Plus it opens you up to examination on all your guns for 922 violations, too much ammo for the local fire regulations, and pretty much anything else laying around your house.
I was pleasantly surprised.
This “law” won’t do anything besides push Californian gun owners underground. They won’t speak about any of it to ANYONE. Which honestly, should probably be SOP anyway . . . not smart at all to go telling acquaintances and co-workers etc private information such as the fact that you own weapons
People need to just keep quiet, go for a walk, have a good workout at the gym, bang the GF or wife...etc....
Since we don’t have a gun registry to check against, and someone could’ve just have a gun outside of the registry, doesn’t this mean that the red flag laws mean that anyone’s house can be searched if they are considered to be a threat? Because everybody could have a gun? Right?
Plus it opens you up to examination on all your guns for 922 violations, too much ammo for the local fire regulations, and pretty much anything else laying around your house.
I will say this again. We will be entering a period in America similar to Prohibition, where all gun activity will move underground, with a vibrant black market. My grandparents and great grandparents violated Prohibition out here, we'll have no problem doing the same with guns. And I would expect the same from millions of Americans.
True but one key difference I see is that we can make shine or bath tub gin at home, it’s tougher to make ammunition let alone components in your basement. I don’t think 5.56 hard cast would hold up.
I guess if your CNC savvy you’re could pump out projos after hours.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I will say this again. We will be entering a period in America similar to Prohibition, where all gun activity will move underground, with a vibrant black market. My grandparents and great grandparents violated Prohibition out here, we'll have no problem doing the same with guns. And I would expect the same from millions of Americans.
Sign me up for a black market suppressor!
(Just kidding ATF guy who’s currently assigned to this board)
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-14-19, 14:18
True but one key difference I see is that we can make shine or bath tub gin at home, it’s tougher to make ammunition let alone components in your basement. I don’t think 5.56 hard cast would hold up.
I guess if your CNC savvy you’re could pump out projos after hours.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
And partaking is far quieter.....
The US is going full-Soviet in ways that the old Soviet leadership could have never dreamt.
The only silver lining in these dark clouds is that police states can’t be sustained: eventually (and inevitably) they collapse, and are no more.
Since we don’t have a gun registry to check against, and someone could’ve just have a gun outside of the registry, doesn’t this mean that the red flag laws mean that anyone’s house can be searched if they are considered to be a threat? Because everybody could have a gun? Right?
Plus it opens you up to examination on all your guns for 922 violations, too much ammo for the local fire regulations, and pretty much anything else laying around your house.
Yes you are right, i think its a whole nother level of privacy invasion. it is a complete misplace priority to me. getting guns out to the hands of street gangs and druge dealers should be the aim of red flags.
A good read:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-yellow-light-for-red-flag-laws-11565132144
Yes you are right, i think its a whole nother level of privacy invasion. it is a complete misplace priority to me. getting guns out to the hands of street gangs and druge dealers should be the aim of red flags.
You mean like the laws that are already in place for just that purpose?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Red flag laws are blatant violations of the 2nd, 4th and 6th Amendments. The Constitution is constantly being stepped on and sidestepped and, with the courts loaded with activist judges, there is very little recourse other than civil disobedience and outright noncompliance with these unconstitutional laws.
Yes you are right, i think its a whole nother level of privacy invasion. it is a complete misplace priority to me. getting guns out to the hands of street gangs and druge dealers should be the aim of red flags.
The war on drugs and the war on alcohol that preceded it have a very strong war on the 2nd amendment component.
titsonritz
10-17-19, 15:25
Don't express concerns about security at schools in public, you might get Red Flagged...
An 84-year-old former police officer and veteran of the Korean War, who was working as a school crossing guard, was fired and had his guns confiscated after a waitress overheard parts of a conversation he was having with a friend inside a diner.
Stephen Nichols got the job as a crossing guard because he loves kids, and after his wife passed away, he needed something to occupy his time and his heart.
While he was at a local diner, Nichols was speaking to a friend about a school resource officer who was constantly leaving his post to go get coffee in the morning. Nichols said he was worried that somebody would come and “shoot up the school” while the officer was on one of his coffee runs.
http://www.captainsjournal.com/2019/10/16/84-year-old-korean-war-veteran-gets-red-flagged-by-idiot-waitress/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+captainsjournal+%28The+Captain%27s+Journal%29
Don't express concerns about security at schools in public, you might get Red Flagged...
An 84-year-old former police officer and veteran of the Korean War, who was working as a school crossing guard, was fired and had his guns confiscated after a waitress overheard parts of a conversation he was having with a friend inside a diner.
Stephen Nichols got the job as a crossing guard because he loves kids, and after his wife passed away, he needed something to occupy his time and his heart.
While he was at a local diner, Nichols was speaking to a friend about a school resource officer who was constantly leaving his post to go get coffee in the morning. Nichols said he was worried that somebody would come and “shoot up the school” while the officer was on one of his coffee runs.
http://www.captainsjournal.com/2019/10/16/84-year-old-korean-war-veteran-gets-red-flagged-by-idiot-waitress/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+captainsjournal+%28The+Captain%27s+Journal%29
What I see here is retaliation by the police, against a complainant who complained about the police.
Besmirching an officer of the crown is tantamount to heresy against the crown itself. :(
What I see here is retaliation by the police, against a complainant who complained about the police.
Besmirching an officer of the crown is tantamount to heresy against the crown itself. :(
Agreed. The old man needs to hire an attorney.
I wonder if a group like the Second Amendment Foundation would be willing to represent him pro bono...
What I see here is retaliation by the police, against a complainant who complained about the police.
Besmirching an officer of the crown is tantamount to heresy against the crown itself. :(
This must be the reason ^^^. Common sense would say to go talk to the elderly gentleman first to see what was said. Unfortunately this is just the beginning as these laws are a ComDem's dream- the burden is on the accused to prove he is innocent and without being able to face his accuser. Joseph Stalin would be proud at how far we have fallen.
Neo-Nazi in Washington State had his guns taken away because of his beliefs, not that any crime was committed. So just having certain beliefs can get you Red Flagged. And they used his concealed carry license against him as well. From King 5 News:
POLICE SEIZE GUNS FROM AVOWED NEO-NAZI IN SNOHOMISH COUNTY
According to court documents, Kaleb Cole is the leader of a small, but dangerous white supremacist group called "Atomwaffen."
https://www.king5.com/amp/article/news/investigations/police-seize-guns-from-avowed-neo-nazi-snohomish-county/281-400146c7-5c81-4c8d-80d6-78f877977340
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-18-19, 14:47
Neo-Nazi in Washington State had his guns taken away because of his beliefs, not that any crime was committed. So just having certain beliefs can get you Red Flagged. And they used his concealed carry license against him as well. From King 5 News:
POLICE SEIZE GUNS FROM AVOWED NEO-NAZI IN SNOHOMISH COUNTY
According to court documents, Kaleb Cole is the leader of a small, but dangerous white supremacist group called "Atomwaffen."
https://www.king5.com/amp/article/news/investigations/police-seize-guns-from-avowed-neo-nazi-snohomish-county/281-400146c7-5c81-4c8d-80d6-78f877977340
It's not like we are all terrorists or anything, except for in SF. There we are terrorists... but just there, at least for right now.
Okay so when do we do raids on Black Panthers, John Brown Gun Club, La Raza, and every other racist group?
What's more intriguing is the fact the FBI thinks the Nazi may be a dangerous person ready to commit a violent crime, yet he wasn't arrested. Conspiracy to commit a violent act is a crime. They tie the Nazi to 5 murders in other States by members of the same group, yet he hasn't been arrested as an accessory to those murders. Guilt by association only wouldn't hold up in court.
This seems to be a case of little or no evidence to stand up in court, so the FBI took the low-hanging fruit and got the State of Washington to utilize their Red Flag Law. This was their way of de-fanging the Nazi because they had nothing else.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.