View Full Version : Go see Joker
I cannot give a review of this movie. There is really no way for me to properly do so. This is the legitimate film of the decade. It achieves so much in so little time and is a right and proper satire in the classical sense.
It’s a literal film about present day clown world set in the early 80s. It goes beyond irony. Beyond zeitgeist.
It calls a spade a spade.
I went in thinking it was Taxi Driver with the Joker.
How wrong I was.
It’s not even about classism, racism, the disenfranchised white man, or even gun control.
It is the definitive 21st century Pagliacci.
Rightfully and APPROPRIATELY it is a dangerous film. And we NEEDED this.
Few movies can ever attain such a feat.
Bad Lieutenant, True Romance, Freaks, Rebel Without a Cause, To Kill a Mockingbird.
Honk Honk
Oh my
[emoji848]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
hotrodder636
10-03-19, 19:37
Wow...you have piqued my interest with this FireFly.
Me too, I had no interest in seeing this but now....
So this isn't about an incel dealing death and destruction because he can't get any action? I guess the MSM got it wrong again....
It must be that good because the left is going crazy about it (negatively). Numerous articles “warning” the public about it and complaining about it’s themes and message.
It must be that good because the left is going crazy about it (negatively). Numerous articles “warning” the public about it and complaining about it’s themes and message.
If this is the case, then I know I'm going to love it.
Taxi Driver was about an incel. Taxi Driver was a cartoon.
Joker hits too close to the bone.
Without going into spoilers, he’s not a bad guy. He’s not. He is implicitly innocent at first. Just an ordinary, downtrodden man trying to get by.
He has problems which are explained and aren’t unreasonable. And he keeps trying so damn hard throughout. I cannot say he is sympathetic as much as he is totally understandable.
Ledger’s Joker was most likely a soldier whose One Bad Day started in SWA. A bit grandiose but not totally out of the question.
Nicholson’s Joker was a gangster goombah who had a taste for Vaudeville.
Romero’s Joker was simply a classical imp who was darkly subversive for the 60s(I actually like his Joker most of all)
But Phoenix Joker is legitimately horrifying because he could be anybody. Throw enough shit at someone long enough and don’t be shocked if he throws shit back in deuces.
There are points in the film where you see that if something was just a bit different that all the bad could have been avoided. He never stops being sincerely and genuinely optimistic until he realizes nothing is going to change. Then it gets dark.
The joke is ultimately on YOU. The viewer. Because you live in the clown world YOU helped create either by doing too much, not enough, or nothing at all.
These are the 2010s folks. Where we have devolved to the point that villainous traits seem not just reasonable but essential to survive.
It’s brilliant.
As for Letos Joker.. that never happened
It was amazing, I can’t stress that enough.
I don’t wanna speak on it, but it’s something you should get out and see.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Taxi Driver was about an incel. Taxi Driver was a cartoon.
Taxi Driver was more about the duality of man than that Platoon horseshit and moral struggle with Elias and Barnes. Within one person, there was an assassin and a savior and even Travis didn't know which one it was going to be yet. Time, place and opportunity dictated the outcome. He missed his chance at Palatine so instead of being John Hinkley the despised he instead became the hero taxi driver that rescued Iris from prostitution, took on the mob to make it happen and returned her safely to her family while incurring great personal injury in the process.
And more importantly, due to his actions and perceived motivations he got the girl. He was now the bad boy man of action who did more than even Palatine to "fix the city" and after that everyone saw him only as the dark night.
Taxi Driver remains one of the few BRILLIANT films ever made.
That said, on your recommendation and the decrying of the movie by MSM, I'll give this one a chance. Usually if the MSM shits all over it, it will be a good one.
It must be that good because the left is going crazy about it (negatively). Numerous articles “warning” the public about it and complaining about it’s themes and message.
Oh yeah. They're going apeshit, they've got police guarding theaters, the military issuing warnings to its personnel, the "critics" getting all sour....
The hue and cry going up from The Usual Suspects really says everything you need to know. You also gotta love how the underlying ploy to stop people from going to see it is the threat of violence...
I generally wonder if someone will try to stage an event so they can push to have it banned or something...
Seriously, they're really going loony over this thing, I wouldn't be surprised... :rolleyes:
Yeah, gotta see this one.
Taxi Driver was about an incel. Taxi Driver was a cartoon.
Joker hits too close to the bone.
Without going into spoilers, he’s not a bad guy. He’s not. He is implicitly innocent at first. Just an ordinary, downtrodden man trying to get by.
He has problems which are explained and aren’t unreasonable. And he keeps trying so damn hard throughout. I cannot say he is sympathetic as much as he is totally understandable.
Ledger’s Joker was most likely a soldier whose One Bad Day started in SWA. A bit grandiose but not totally out of the question.
Nicholson’s Joker was a gangster goombah who had a taste for Vaudeville.
Romero’s Joker was simply a classical imp who was darkly subversive for the 60s(I actually like his Joker most of all)
But Phoenix Joker is legitimately horrifying because he could be anybody. Throw enough shit at someone long enough and don’t be shocked if he throws shit back in deuces.
There are points in the film where you see that if something was just a bit different that all the bad could have been avoided. He never stops being sincerely and genuinely optimistic until he realizes nothing is going to change. Then it gets dark.
The joke is ultimately on YOU. The viewer. Because you live in the clown world YOU helped create either by doing too much, not enough, or nothing at all.
These are the 2010s folks. Where we have devolved to the point that villainous traits seem not just reasonable but essential to survive.
It’s brilliant.
As for Letos Joker.. that never happened
Sounds like Falling Down but with clown makeup. And Falling Down was a good movie.
Really? The previews looked horrible. Like a broadway show type movie- not my thing at all.
Maybe I got the wrong impression.
Look at who writes the reviews.
I may venture to see it.
It would be the only time this year.
A gem in a sea of trash?
Taxi Driver was about an incel. Taxi Driver was a cartoon.
Joker hits too close to the bone.
Without going into spoilers, he’s not a bad guy. He’s not. He is implicitly innocent at first. Just an ordinary, downtrodden man trying to get by.
He has problems which are explained and aren’t unreasonable. And he keeps trying so damn hard throughout. I cannot say he is sympathetic as much as he is totally understandable.
Ledger’s Joker was most likely a soldier whose One Bad Day started in SWA. A bit grandiose but not totally out of the question.
Nicholson’s Joker was a gangster goombah who had a taste for Vaudeville.
Romero’s Joker was simply a classical imp who was darkly subversive for the 60s(I actually like his Joker most of all)
But Phoenix Joker is legitimately horrifying because he could be anybody. Throw enough shit at someone long enough and don’t be shocked if he throws shit back in deuces.
There are points in the film where you see that if something was just a bit different that all the bad could have been avoided. He never stops being sincerely and genuinely optimistic until he realizes nothing is going to change. Then it gets dark.
The joke is ultimately on YOU. The viewer. Because you live in the clown world YOU helped create either by doing too much, not enough, or nothing at all.
These are the 2010s folks. Where we have devolved to the point that villainous traits seem not just reasonable but essential to survive.
It’s brilliant.
As for Letos Joker.. that never happened
When people talk about the mass shooter, incel, disaffected SWM "problem" in America, they always talk about gun control, SSRI's, mental health diagnoses, etc., and I shake my head. What's my answer? "Be Nice"
It really does boil down to that. I've long ago lost the link and wish I could find it again, but there was a mass shooter who took out his rage and impotence on his place of employment. They had an unarmed guard (an oxymoron if I've ever heard one) and the entrance. He survived the rampage. Why? Because he was nice. I don't remember all the details but this one stuck with me. The guard was interviewed after the crime and he said the guy walked in with his gun, paused at the guard and said "You were always nice to me, so I'm not going to kill you today.", then proceeded to kill several coworkers and bosses.
That stuck with me. You may never know the only thing that saved you from being murdered was just being nice to someone. Let's face it, there are some people you just can't help. They are on a collision course with harsh reality and cannot be persuaded to correct course. I've known people like that and done what I could to help them understand why everyone shuns them. The whole "it's not all of them, it's you" soft talk. Their wiring will never allow them to function well in a society. That doesn't mean you need to beat them over the head with their deficiencies on a continual basis.
I'll definitely go see this one based on Fly's recommendation. It sounds like a familiar real-life theme, with some dramatic flair thrown in. Joaquin Phoenix has always struck me as one of those odd ducks anyway. He's probably the perfect actor to make this role his own.
Another "urgent warning" over vague hearsay for moviegoers. Apparently 4Chan is the dark web now as well... :rolleyes:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7531341/Mass-shooting-threat-posted-online-warns-people-not-watch-Joker-Sydney-cinema.html?fbclid=IwAR38Pj7bJQpK7_W_cNRR6ezjz9x_TaqfrzMdOFdvjL7ByzT08M1ERuu_OFQ
As for Letos Joker.. that never happened
Here to echo this.
Averageman
10-04-19, 14:11
Perhaps the Best performance for an Actor that I have seen in years.
It's a deep sad story, but he has his vengeance.
The Joker is born of our apathy, and as a result, we made and deserve him
When people talk about the mass shooter, incel, disaffected SWM "problem" in America, they always talk about gun control, SSRI's, mental health diagnoses, etc., and I shake my head. What's my answer? "Be Nice"
It really does boil down to that. I've long ago lost the link and wish I could find it again, but there was a mass shooter who took out his rage and impotence on his place of employment. They had an unarmed guard (an oxymoron if I've ever heard one) and the entrance. He survived the rampage. Why? Because he was nice. I don't remember all the details but this one stuck with me. The guard was interviewed after the crime and he said the guy walked in with his gun, paused at the guard and said "You were always nice to me, so I'm not going to kill you today.", then proceeded to kill several coworkers and bosses.
That stuck with me. You may never know the only thing that saved you from being murdered was just being nice to someone. Let's face it, there are some people you just can't help. They are on a collision course with harsh reality and cannot be persuaded to correct course. I've known people like that and done what I could to help them understand why everyone shuns them. The whole "it's not all of them, it's you" soft talk. Their wiring will never allow them to function well in a society. That doesn't mean you need to beat them over the head with their deficiencies on a continual basis.
I'll definitely go see this one based on Fly's recommendation. It sounds like a familiar real-life theme, with some dramatic flair thrown in. Joaquin Phoenix has always struck me as one of those odd ducks anyway. He's probably the perfect actor to make this role his own.
Same thing happened with a couple kids at Columbine. One kid was told to leave school before the shooting started but they didn't tell him why he should leave the school and in another instance they came across somebody who asked "What are you guys doing" to which they replied "Shooting people" and then he asked "Are you going to shoot me?" and they said no and walked past him.
Taxi Driver was about an incel. Taxi Driver was a cartoon.
Joker hits too close to the bone.
Without going into spoilers, he’s not a bad guy. He’s not. He is implicitly innocent at first. Just an ordinary, downtrodden man trying to get by.
He has problems which are explained and aren’t unreasonable. And he keeps trying so damn hard throughout. I cannot say he is sympathetic as much as he is totally understandable.
Ledger’s Joker was most likely a soldier whose One Bad Day started in SWA. A bit grandiose but not totally out of the question.
Nicholson’s Joker was a gangster goombah who had a taste for Vaudeville.
Romero’s Joker was simply a classical imp who was darkly subversive for the 60s(I actually like his Joker most of all)
But Phoenix Joker is legitimately horrifying because he could be anybody. Throw enough shit at someone long enough and don’t be shocked if he throws shit back in deuces.
There are points in the film where you see that if something was just a bit different that all the bad could have been avoided. He never stops being sincerely and genuinely optimistic until he realizes nothing is going to change. Then it gets dark.
The joke is ultimately on YOU. The viewer. Because you live in the clown world YOU helped create either by doing too much, not enough, or nothing at all.
These are the 2010s folks. Where we have devolved to the point that villainous traits seem not just reasonable but essential to survive.
It’s brilliant.
As for Letos Joker.. that never happened
Unanimous.
I’m going to the 1030 showing tonight.
My expectations have increased.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Me too, I had no interest in seeing this but now....
Same here!
I'm not really sure how to review Joker, except to say it was a scarily brilliant film. Superbly written, directed, and acted.
I think the film truly captures the descent into darkness that can accompany a person pushed to the limit through abuse, societal pressure, neglect, and mental illness. The reality and relatability of Arthur Fleck's journey in the film is what makes it so heavy, and Joaquin Phoenix captured it brilliantly.
If Joaquin doesn't get Best Actor for this role, i'll be extremely disappointed.
Just walked out.
It
Is
Brilliant
So many jabs at contemporary society and the establishment.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Averageman
10-05-19, 10:02
Just walked out.
It
Is
Brilliant
So many jabs at contemporary society and the establishment.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I was sitting here today thinking about the movie again as it's been almost 24 hours since I saw it.
I kind of came to the conclusion that this story could have been anyone in similar circumstances, it didn't have to be "The Joker", it was more palatable for the masses to make this story using a fictional character. Nothing like this tragedy could ever happen to a down trodden Man in real life could it?
The answer is Yes, it does everyday. Using a comic book character to tell this story simply makes it a bit safer for public consumption.
Joker viewers around the globe WALK OUT of movie theaters
https://mol.im/a/7540901
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
^^^^Walk out?
1. What a bunch of pansies.
2. So they had no idea what the movie was about prior to seeing it?
3. One of them said it's Trump's fault.
4. What a bunch of pansies.
Also I want to say the tie in to other films set in Gotham was/is brilliant.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Straight Shooter
10-05-19, 13:54
Wont go see it if it was free.
F Hollywood to hell.
joedirt199
10-05-19, 14:32
Waiting till a good copy comes out on kodi and I can watch it in my livingroom
Waiting till a good copy comes out on kodi and I can watch it in my livingroom
Part of the thrill was hoping I’d get to AlphaAlpha an incel dressed weird who felt like pulling a Columbine.
Come on, live a little
Wont go see it if it was free.
F Hollywood to hell.
Then sneak in and stick it to the man. Or pull an Ahoy Matey if you gots to.
It was good
Also I want to say the tie in to other films set in Gotham was/is brilliant.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It sorta felt like an R rated version of the Gotham tv show but for men.
joedirt199
10-05-19, 17:54
Part of the thrill was hoping I’d get to AlphaAlpha an incel dressed weird who felt like pulling a Columbine.
Come on, live a little
Would rather do that while working in uniform. Less chance of getting friendly fired by another concealed carrier.
Another data point - 7th decade geezer. Almost wished I hadn’t wasted my money on it.
Don’t see what the the hubbub is all about? Not all that violent. Plenty of mental based issues a la Taxi Driver / No Country for Old Men, etc. Body count nothing like latest Rambo or either Kill Bill movie. Dems/Leftists always need something to worry/complain about - and this is it.
Geezer john
Coal Dragger
10-05-19, 18:50
Probably not going to see this.
Comic books are lame (my opinion).
Comic book based stories and characters are also similarly lame.
Movie adaptions of the above somehow manage to be even more lame the vast majority of the time. Plus I’m not going to make a 2 hour round trip to see most any movie plus hire a baby sitter, damn sure not this one.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-7540901/Joker-viewers-globe-WALK-movie-theatres.html
Headline:
"'It's way too terrifying': Joker viewers around the world WALK OUT of movie theaters and urge cinemas to BAN the ultra-violent film saying it glamorizes gun crime and deals with mental health issues in a 'triggering' way"
Called it. :cool:
Another data point - 7th decade geezer. Almost wished I hadn’t wasted my money on it.
Don’t see what the the hubbub is all about? Not all that violent. Plenty of mental based issues a la Taxi Driver / No Country for Old Men, etc. Body count nothing like latest Rambo or either Kill Bill movie. Dems/Leftists always need something to worry/complain about - and this is it.
Geezer john
I’ll dispense with age related boomer jokes but the disconnect between senior folks and youth(ish) culture targets what the core framework of this movie is all about.
Joker is about way more than a psychologically compromised individual who goes off his meds.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think the Falling Down and Taxi Driver spiel is incorrect.
Joker starts out as a troubled person who is making every possible attempt to eke out an honest living despite his handicaps.
Taxi Driver caused his own problems. He HAD the girl. Cheryl Ladd. I mean he HAD her. All he had to do was chill and be normal. Had he taken her to see pretty much any film BUT a porno he would have had a happy ending.
Jodie Foster was not as much a victim as portrayed. She knew she was hooking and tried to justify it. I bet as soon as she was repatriated to her parents she stayed maybe a month and went back to hooking.
Falling Down, D-Fens seems initially sympathetic. But then you realize it is chumpbait. He was a creep to his wife and child and didn’t try to help himself in any real way.
But Joker is TRYING EVERYTHING. He is trying to hold a job despite disability, he is seeing a therapist, he is caring for and ailing mother and he isn’t trying to be a creep. He just is a little off with good reason and he is going forward despite it all.
The one line that really I found powerful was when he says “You don’t need to worry about money anymore, mom. Or me”. And it has no sinister overtones.
An older person may not get the message as personally because there are so many people refusing handouts, struggling, and driving on and still getting shat upon because they are no longer “relevant”. Nothing but rejection and indifference. And not in a Liberal socialist way but an all too real societal way.
The Forgotten. You have to be relatively young to appreciate that. Without giving anything away Joker doesn’t hate successful people( he wants to be one insofar as he is able), he hates the way that he cannot even be treated as a person. He even says in a pivotal moment “I don’t want anything from you. I just want you to listen to me and give me some answers. Then I will go take my troubles elsewhere”
His backlash is indeed villainous but not at all unrelatable. I dare say his retribution could be almost poetic.
We have become so cynical and cruel as a society that we create our own monsters. An answered phone call, a hug, an open door, and a bit of patience could prevent so much.
He is not heroic, not anti-heroic, and yet not exactly a villain. It’s beyond that.
Its real. Some people just break.
I have seen it. I seen as a young man of nigh 23 summers a girl filet herself like a fish because she just couldn’t handle it. No drugs, no abuse, no rape, no bullying, and not even a Heathers scenario. She just had a legitimate break.
I seen a man who had blown his brains out with his father’s gun because he lost money that was nothing in the grand scheme of things. Would not have lost his nice home, his two cars, his wife, nor his good job over. He just felt over encumbered by his own self manufactured pressure. Like, not to dick wag but I have literally seen enough fresh human brains from suicide, homicide, use of force, and car wrecks to last most people and yet I KNOW there are people who have seen more. And the worst feeling is when you don’t feel it anymore. It’s not shocking. Its not nauseating. Its another day.
That’s not healthy and anyone who says otherwise is either full of shit of never done it.
But, you keep going as best as possible.
It’s basic dignity that we are all lacking.
I guess that is why it resonated with me. It’s not Heath Ledger blowing up buildings. It’s not Jack Nicholson hamming it up for a pudgy Michael Keaton.
It’s a regular enough guy who just says “Eff it”
The violence committed isn’t with RPGs and machine guns. It’s real and happens every day. You don’t always know who you are messing with, what they are going through, and how tenuously they are dealing even if they are doing everything in their power to keep a lid on it.
“But doctor, I am Pagliacci...”
Damn right. We all are.
If you lost everything in a short amount of time and were legitimately down and out with no help, not even from God it seems.....
What would you do?
That’s the hard question the film asks.
And there may not always be a right answer, but untold scores of wrong ones.
If you have lived your life then you wouldn’t get it. But if you are at that weird point.. holy shit.
It’s a Rorschach test. And made by the Hangover guy and a former child actor no less.
I think the Falling Down and Taxi Driver spiel is incorrect.
Joker starts out as a troubled person who is making every possible attempt to eke out an honest living despite his handicaps.
Taxi Driver caused his own problems. He HAD the girl. Cheryl Ladd. I mean he HAD her. All he had to do was chill and be normal. Had he taken her to see pretty much any film BUT a porno he would have had a happy ending.
Jodie Foster was not as much a victim as portrayed. She knew she was hooking and tried to justify it. I bet as soon as she was repatriated to her parents she stayed maybe a month and went back to hooking.
Falling Down, D-Fens seems initially sympathetic. But then you realize it is chumpbait. He was a creep to his wife and child and didn’t try to help himself in any real way.
But Joker is TRYING EVERYTHING. He is trying to hold a job despite disability, he is seeing a therapist, he is caring for and ailing mother and he isn’t trying to be a creep. He just is a little off with good reason and he is going forward despite it all.
The one line that really I found powerful was when he says “You don’t need to worry about money anymore, mom. Or me”. And it has no sinister overtones.
An older person may not get the message as personally because there are so many people refusing handouts, struggling, and driving on and still getting shat upon because they are no longer “relevant”. Nothing but rejection and indifference. And not in a Liberal socialist way but an all too real societal way.
The Forgotten. You have to be relatively young to appreciate that. Without giving anything away Joker doesn’t hate successful people( he wants to be one insofar as he is able), he hates the way that he cannot even be treated as a person. He even says in a pivotal moment “I don’t want anything from you. I just want you to listen to me and give me some answers. Then I will go take my troubles elsewhere”
His backlash is indeed villainous but not at all unrelatable. I dare say his retribution could be almost poetic.
We have become so cynical and cruel as a society that we create our own monsters. An answered phone call, a hug, an open door, and a bit of patience could prevent so much.
He is not heroic, not anti-heroic, and yet not exactly a villain. It’s beyond that.
Its real. Some people just break.
I have seen it. I seen as a young man of nigh 23 summers a girl filet herself like a fish because she just couldn’t handle it. No drugs, no abuse, no rape, no bullying, and not even a Heathers scenario. She just had a legitimate break.
I seen a man who had blown his brains out with his father’s gun because he lost money that was nothing in the grand scheme of things. Would not have lost his nice home, his two cars, his wife, nor his good job over. He just felt over encumbered by his own self manufactured pressure. Like, not to dick wag but I have literally seen enough fresh human brains from suicide, homicide, use of force, and car wrecks to last most people and yet I KNOW there are people who have seen more. And the worst feeling is when you don’t feel it anymore. It’s not shocking. Its not nauseating. Its another day.
That’s not healthy and anyone who says otherwise is either full of shit of never done it.
But, you keep going as best as possible.
It’s basic dignity that we are all lacking.
I guess that is why it resonated with me. It’s not Heath Ledger blowing up buildings. It’s not Jack Nicholson hamming it up for a pudgy Michael Keaton.
It’s a regular enough guy who just says “Eff it”
The violence committed isn’t with RPGs and machine guns. It’s real and happens every day. You don’t always know who you are messing with, what they are going through, and how tenuously they are dealing even if they are doing everything in their power to keep a lid on it.
“But doctor, I am Pagliacci...”
Damn right. We all are.
If you lost everything in a short amount of time and were legitimately down and out with no help, not even from God it seems.....
What would you do?
That’s the hard question the film asks.
And there may not always be a right answer, but untold scores of wrong ones.
If you have lived your life then you wouldn’t get it. But if you are at that weird point.. holy shit.
It’s a Rorschach test. And made by the Hangover guy and a former child actor no less.
Word.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Taxi Driver caused his own problems. He HAD the girl. Cheryl Ladd. I mean he HAD her. All he had to do was chill and be normal. Had he taken her to see pretty much any film BUT a porno he would have had a happy ending.
Two things.
It was Cybill Shepherd and he didn't have her. He was on a "trial basis" at best and she wasn't really into him. It was only when he went "bad boy" that she realized she was into him and he then had her on his own terms. Travis also was trying to define his environment rather than be defined by his environment, that is an important thing to remember.
We also need to remember the theme of Thomas Wolfe, "God's Lonely Man" and the lonely individual seeking to grasp some meaning in the face of life's impermanence and the inevitability of death. Again, Travis could have easily gone down either path.
But the important thing is one way or another, he was taking back control of his existence on his terms, which is probably the basis for the comparison.
First,I stand corrected. Cybil Sheppard.
But having seen it a time or two, I cannot relate to Taxi Driver like I could in my mid 20s.
Early 20s are or should be like a Roman orgy.
Late 20s you just don't care about stuff like you used to.
But mid 20s are that weird age where you arent exactly treated like a kid, but you arent always taken seriously either.
The point I take from Taxi Driver is that he was actually pretty damn cool if he could chill a little and let others take it in easy enough.
He didnt have the patience and that made him lame. Like, adjusted for inflation....,what he spent on guns could've gone to better things that would have made him happier. For a loner type, gunhoarding gives you a sense of security but at day's end; it's just more crap that doesnt make you feel any better. For a cab driver, he made good money. Take a trip.
And here's the sick irony:
Had he killed the Senator... He just would have made him a martyr and ended up messing it up for everyone else
By killing the pimps and johns, he changed nothing. Maybe it felt good but not really.
And seriously, who takes a girl to a porno?
Joker hits a different nerve. Because he's not wanting all these things. He initially just wants to live his life and pursue his comedy.
He really isnt self pitying
I disagree on the timing. With everything going on currently in this country I think it’s a story that needed to be told.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
MountainRaven
10-06-19, 14:20
And seriously, who takes a girl to a porno?
I think that was, for me, the biggest thing that made Taxi Driver about a creepy creeper rather than an everyman who simply snaps.
And given that the movie was made so you could literally endlessly loop it, it suggests DeNiro's character could easily go back and kill the Senator the next day. (It also emphasizes the character's psychosis.)
Of course, Taxi Driver isn't about the titular taxi driver, it's (in part) about how society is happy to reward an amoral sociopath because they killed some of society's dregs, rather than the créme of society, even though they could have just as easily - not just physically, but psychically (or mentally, if you prefer) - killed said créme of society.
Agreed.
If you’ve not seen it, check out God Bless America. Way better thematically about society than Taxi Driver.
Like...Taxi Driver is just a creep. GBA had (villain) protagonists I didn’t get squicked at.
Plus it had Alice Cooper and the Kinks on the soundtrack
First,I stand corrected. Cybil Sheppard.
But having seen it a time or two, I cannot relate to Taxi Driver like I could in my mid 20s.
Early 20s are or should be like a Roman orgy.
Late 20s you just don't care about stuff like you used to.
But mid 20s are that weird age where you arent exactly treated like a kid, but you arent always taken seriously either.
The point I take from Taxi Driver is that he was actually pretty damn cool if he could chill a little and let others take it in easy enough.
He didnt have the patience and that made him lame. Like, adjusted for inflation....,what he spent on guns could've gone to better things that would have made him happier. For a loner type, gunhoarding gives you a sense of security but at day's end; it's just more crap that doesnt make you feel any better. For a cab driver, he made good money. Take a trip.
And here's the sick irony:
Had he killed the Senator... He just would have made him a martyr and ended up messing it up for everyone else
By killing the pimps and johns, he changed nothing. Maybe it felt good but not really.
And seriously, who takes a girl to a porno?
You, I and Travis were never the same person. He wasn't there to chill, in some ways he was Confucius's "superior man" in thought and deed. He ritually purified himself before engaging on his mission.
And yes, had he killed the Senator he would have destroyed everything and become a monster, that is meant to be the frightening part of the movie, that both options were equally viable to him in his mind.
But I disagree that he changed nothing when his killed pimps and minor mafia functionaries. Combine that with the "rescued the little lost family girl" narrative of the media and it may have been one of those catalysts that eventually cleaned up times square and 42nd.
Also you don't seem to be aware of the porno chic era of the time. Celebrities were going to see Deep Throat and Behind the Green Door, they were bringing dates.
Interesting to see Medved's review. He's no flaming leftist, but he clearly didn't like Joker.
Medved: 2 of 4 stars
"The thing you'll notice about Joker--aside from the terrifying performance of Joachin Phoenix--is how terrible it will make you feel. This is a supremely indulgent exercise in painfully pointless depression. Only occasionally interrupted by spasms of gruesome and sadistic violence."
[...]
"Parts of the film are well done, but the real question is why was it done it all, and why should anyone endure it?"
His reaction to this movie didn't seem motivated by politics, nor have I seen him critique movie violence just because it was violence, provided that it makes sense in the context of the story. He thinks this movie is basically just wallowing in darkness and nihilism, not particularly compelling, thought-provoking, or even entertaining. And at first glance, from trailers and other people's comments, I do kind of get that same impression. It does not seem like a particularly noteworthy insight that people who become sociopathic BG's often had a rough life, which can include bullying, abuse, and mental illness as key 'ingredients' in the making of a bad guy.
I will probably see it just because the Left hates it and that alone makes it interesting to me. And Medved is not always right, he's downgraded some movies I thought were excellent. But probably won't bother with seeing Joker in-theater, I save that for maybe 1 movie a year and this won't be it.
i haven't seen the movie but there have been so many negative reviews on it and i am starting to feel like its not gonna be much to see or be excited about. though people said the same thing about the Superman V. Batman movie and i did enjoy it(happens to be one of my fave superHero movie of all time)
But Dc comics have been making so many mistakes and it is saddening to see...i am a huge Dc fan and love so many of their characters. The Joker movie might just be alright but i think the timing is off. A Justice league movie is what people are yearning for, a batman or Sups movie would also do but a Joker movie isn't for the market right now.
Yeah we all know critics are never wrong or have a sjw or political ax to grind. What I can't figure out is how this terrible movie took in 93 mil this weekend. :dirol:
I saw it today, it's not for everyone but it is a powerful movie. I think one reason it resonates is because I believe many in this country feel like they have been under assault from the left for the last 3 years. Question is how much do the deplorables take before they don the clown masks.
But what I really think we all want to know is how much do Firelfy and Joaquin Phoenix look alike with their shirts off.;)
https://wgntv.com/2019/10/06/joker-laughs-its-way-to-october-box-office-record/
Warner Bros. said Sunday that “Joker” grossed an estimated $93.5 million in ticket sales from 4,374 screens in North America. The previous October record-holder was the Spider-Man spinoff “Venom” which opened to $80 million last year. Internationally, “Joker” earned $140.5 million from 73 markets, resulting in a stunning $234 million global debut.
I just got back from seeing Joker, and here's my take: It matters how we treat one another. One kind word from a stranger can possibly make a difference in someone's life. Compassion costs us nothing, but can also be priceless.
I just got back from seeing Joker, and here's my take: It matters how we treat one another. One kind word from a stranger can possibly make a difference in someone's life. Compassion costs us nothing, but can also be priceless.
I saw it earlier today and I agree with you, very powerful movie. I laughed out loud when he shoots the last person (not to spoil it) when it cut to black before showing him in Arkham, I heard some women in the theater yell out Gay and something else I didn’t catch, I’d guess she didn’t care for it. I sat right up in front because I bought me ticket last minute so I didn’t see if anyone walked out partway through it.
Joker and Titanic are the only movies I’ve seen in theaters that ended with the crowd applauding at the credits.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Wow, Now i really have to see it.
Bigly facts
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
joedirt199
10-07-19, 07:26
So much selfishness in the world. May have come with the invention of the "self"ie. I still hold the lane for people who are trying to turn left into traffic while I am trying to turn left into their street, hold doors open for people, if someone pays for your meal in the drivethrough you pay it forward to the person behind you. Little things that have escaped our busy lives now that it is a cutthroat, me first society.
I know that there are some people who don't want to see it because they see it as a "comic book" movie, and I can understand them thinking that, but Joker is about as far as you can get from the comic book mold. The story is a cautionary tale of how a person with mental health issues could be driven to violence by a heartless society.
That being said, this movie has to be the absolute best origin story for Joker. No bs about falling into a vat of chemicals, or unbelievable access to weaponry that would make the National Guard envious. DC and WB need to make more movies like this if they want to be successful.
ramairthree
10-07-19, 11:51
I will watch this movie at some point.
I’m not really interested in a Joker movie.
There are a handful of actors it intrigues me to watch as they so completely become a character, or how much effort they put into some skills, etc.
He is one of them.
I don’t mean every role or every movie.
Val Kilmer obviously did not pull off a Jim Morrison or Doc Holliday every movie.
But the potential in some movies is pretty interesting.
MountainRaven
10-07-19, 14:36
So much selfishness in the world. May have come with the invention of the "self"ie. I still hold the lane for people who are trying to turn left into traffic while I am trying to turn left into their street, hold doors open for people, if someone pays for your meal in the drivethrough you pay it forward to the person behind you. Little things that have escaped our busy lives now that it is a cutthroat, me first society.
Selfishness in the world pre-dates the invention of the selfie, the invention of the camera, the invention of writing.
I’m going again this weekend but In IMAX.
It deserves IMAX
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yea, it was good.
I even laughed out loud a few times. It takes you through a number of emotions. I was entertained.
I think it's the only movie I've gone to see this year. This one isn't SJW.
I just got back from seeing Joker, and here's my take: It matters how we treat one another. One kind word from a stranger can possibly make a difference in someone's life. Compassion costs us nothing, but can also be priceless.
I came to this conclusion years ago.
I had a coworker with issues. He was an alright guy, went to lunch with him sometimes. Was with a group of coworkers when he wasn't around and someone asked me, "So you were listening to (We'll call him "John") John going on about his problems, again? Why do you even listen to him?" I told them, "because as far as I know I may be the only person in the world he can talk to. Maybe it's the difference between him showing up with a rifle one day, maybe not, but I sure don't mind being nice to him." They didn't have shit to say after that.
Saw it and it was a good movie but nothing special. The “Life beats a guy down and he breaks” plot has been played out multiple times. It tied into the Batman/Gotham storyline well.
It was like the first half of Full Metal Jacket with just a slightly different ending.
Lessons:
1)Be nice to people
2)There are reasons for asylums
3)People nut up when they hit their breaking point regardless of health, wealth, or mental capacity.
4)you can f stuff up with a snub nosed .38 :D
Lessons:
1)Be nice to people
2)There are reasons for asylums
3)People nut up when they hit their breaking point regardless of health, wealth, or mental capacity.
4)you can f stuff up with a snub nosed .38 :D
Darn right. I've seen people shot at 50 yards blown 20 feet back through a plate glass window with a .38 snub ;).
Darn right. I've seen people shot at 50 yards blown 20 feet back through a plate glass window with a .38 snub ;).
.38 LSWCHP + P is no joke. I sense a little sarcasm there but the right .38 will ruin your day before a .357 will
.38 LSWCHP + P is no joke. I sense a little sarcasm there but the right .38 will ruin your day before a .357 will
They normally dont expand from short barrels. But penetrate just fine.
They normally dont expand from short barrels. But penetrate just fine.
A hole in the heart is a hole in the heart
Interesting to see Medved's review. He's no flaming leftist, but he clearly didn't like Joker.
Medved: 2 of 4 stars
"The thing you'll notice about Joker--aside from the terrifying performance of Joachin Phoenix--is how terrible it will make you feel. This is a supremely indulgent exercise in painfully pointless depression. Only occasionally interrupted by spasms of gruesome and sadistic violence."
[...]
"Parts of the film are well done, but the real question is why was it done it all, and why should anyone endure it?"
His reaction to this movie didn't seem motivated by politics, nor have I seen him critique movie violence just because it was violence, provided that it makes sense in the context of the story. He thinks this movie is basically just wallowing in darkness and nihilism, not particularly compelling, thought-provoking, or even entertaining. And at first glance, from trailers and other people's comments, I do kind of get that same impression. It does not seem like a particularly noteworthy insight that people who become sociopathic BG's often had a rough life, which can include bullying, abuse, and mental illness as key 'ingredients' in the making of a bad guy.
I will probably see it just because the Left hates it and that alone makes it interesting to me. And Medved is not always right, he's downgraded some movies I thought were excellent. But probably won't bother with seeing Joker in-theater, I save that for maybe 1 movie a year and this won't be it.
Something tells me he wasn't able to suspend disbelief and place himself in the character's shoes. Something like this is supposed to make you think about life, if you were someone other than yourself.
A hole in the heart is a hole in the heart
Yea I'm on board. I carry a Beretta Cheetah 7.65mm.
""Parts of the film are well done, but the real question is why was it done it all, and why should anyone endure it?""
Well, you could say that about the Wizard of Oz, too. If you like it, you were entertained. If not, you "endured" it.
Silly question.
the AR-15 Junkie
10-08-19, 16:43
A hole in the heart is a hole in the heart
Exactly what Amber Guyger thought and did. Shot that poor man straight thru the heart as they were trained. Damn shame.
Exactly what Amber Guyger thought and did. Shot that poor man straight thru the heart as they were trained. Damn shame.
And this has exactly what to do with the movie?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Soooo......there's no Batman in this flick?
Soooo......there's no Batman in this flick?
Technically, yes.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
************* SPOILER ALERT ***************
So is Arthur Fleck Thomas Wayne's son? I think so, it adds to the darkness. What say you?
The_War_Wagon
10-08-19, 20:04
Just so you KNOW... when they come to take y'all's guns for talking about this movie... :eek:
Guns seized from Washington man after 'concerning Twitter posts' over new 'Joker' movie (https://www.wpxi.com/news/trending-now/guns-seized-from-washington-man-after-concerning-twitter-posts-over-new-joker-movie/995276189)
REDMOND, Wash. - Officials seized several guns from a 23-year-old Redmond, Washington, man after he made "concerning Twitter posts posing with weapons and referencing the Joker movie," police said.
https://i.ibb.co/YBpgyXp/kiro-7TV.jpg
Six guns, including multiple semi-automatic assault rifles, were removed from his home Oct. 1 as part of an Extreme Risk Protection Order filed by the Redmond Police Department. A protection order allows law enforcement agencies, family members and household members to file petitions to take away gun rights from people who are threats to themselves or others.
The man has a concealed permit license issued in May for two handguns, but his license has since been revoked...
************* SPOILER ALERT ***************
So is Arthur Fleck Thomas Wayne's son? I think so, it adds to the darkness. What say you?
Do you want the answer truthfully?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
the AR-15 Junkie
10-11-19, 15:22
I didn't catch it at first but after leaving the theatre it then occurred to me that some of the scenes the Joker experienced was actually just in his imagination. I thought it was a GREAT movie. One of those movies where you can feel sorry for the villian.
I didn't catch it at first but after leaving the theatre it then occurred to me that some of the scenes the Joker experienced was actually just in his imagination. I thought it was a GREAT movie. One of those movies where you can feel sorry for the villian.
But is he really the villain though?
[emoji2373]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
So I finally got around to watching Taxi Driver after reading what you guys have to say about it, comparing it to Joker. I really didn’t care for it, I know it’s a classic and one of DeNiro’s first films but the dialogue was off, like film school disjointed and awkward. Joker was much better in my opinion.
So I finally got around to watching Taxi Driver after reading what you guys have to say about it, comparing it to Joker. I really didn’t care for it, I know it’s a classic and one of DeNiro’s first films but the dialogue was off, like film school disjointed and awkward. Joker was much better in my opinion.
Victim of time and place, even The French Connection no longer has the "impact" it once did. At the time they were two of the most red meat movies ever made, now you have to watch them as the period films they are.
I remember everyone talking about Mean Streets and how it was the greatest gangland movie ever made, I've never been so bored in my life and it was a Scorsese film. Give it another couple decades and people will talk about how Goodfellas was kinda slow and boring. Godfather only holds up because it was never intended as an "action" film and it's full of what are now called easter eggs.
the AR-15 Junkie
10-12-19, 10:13
But is he really the villain though?
[emoji2373]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Good question man.
I really enjoyed this movie, will see it a second time now I better understand he was not really living out all the scenes.
ramairthree
10-12-19, 10:17
Just so you KNOW... when they come to take y'all's guns for talking about this movie... :eek:
Guns seized from Washington man after 'concerning Twitter posts' over new 'Joker' movie (https://www.wpxi.com/news/trending-now/guns-seized-from-washington-man-after-concerning-twitter-posts-over-new-joker-movie/995276189)
Was this a legitimate issue,
Or was this a “when the zombie virus comes, you two bastards are the first guys I’m shooting in the head” joke kind of thing.
In the same way gun laws are meant to be applied to certain types and blown off for others,
So go red flag laws.
Was this a legitimate issue,
Or was this a “when the zombie virus comes, you two bastards are the first guys I’m shooting in the head” joke kind of thing.
In the same way gun laws are meant to be applied to certain types and blown off for others,
So go red flag laws.
Ok what? Nah dude
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
ramairthree
10-13-19, 13:43
And The BS begins.
Could you be more specific?
Is there a legitimate batch of guys that saw this movie and are moved to violence and getting red flagged?
Or is this the media dying for links to this movie and gun violence?
There is a distinct lack of response to threats of some gun violence based on the political motivations of the threateners.
Could you be more specific?
Is there a legitimate batch of guys that saw this movie and are moved to violence and getting red flagged?
Or is this the media dying for links to this movie and gun violence?
There is a distinct lack of response to threats of some gun violence based on the political motivations of the threateners.
You lost all credibility by referencing “gun violence”.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think the film is art but at the same time it’s just a movie.
If a movie is all it takes to show us how stupid we’ve become as a society to push on with this Orwellian BS then it says more about US and the bullshit we’ve let slide than it does anything else
Could you be more specific?
Is there a legitimate batch of guys that saw this movie and are moved to violence and getting red flagged?
Or is this the media dying for links to this movie and gun violence?
There is a distinct lack of response to threats of some gun violence based on the political motivations of the threateners.
https://komonews.com/news/local/several-guns-removed-from-redmond-man-after-concerning-twitter-posts-for-joker-movie
ramairthree
10-19-19, 11:51
You lost all credibility by referencing “gun violence”.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I’m still not getting the point.
People use guns to hunt and kill animals, defend themselves, defend other people and LE officers and military, commit robberies, commit terrorist acts, etc.
And then some weird category where someone just decides to kill a bunch of people for no criminal gain, no political reason, etc.
Legal or not, those all seem to have some intended purpose except the last category.
When it fits a narrative or control the media and progressives want spun in their favor, its “gun violence”, a public health crisis, an epidemic, or some other spin.
So I’m not sure what asking if a movie they don’t like is causing them to do backflips to negatively link it “gun violence” does credibility wise.
I’m still not getting the point.
People use guns to hunt and kill animals, defend themselves, defend other people and LE officers and military, commit robberies, commit terrorist acts, etc.
And then some weird category where someone just decides to kill a bunch of people for no criminal gain, no political reason, etc.
Legal or not, those all seem to have some intended purpose except the last category.
When it fits a narrative or control the media and progressives want spun in their favor, its “gun violence”, a public health crisis, an epidemic, or some other spin.
So I’m not sure what asking if a movie they don’t like is causing them to do backflips to negatively link it “gun violence” does credibility wise.
I think the objection is because the media and progressives don't just use the term "gun violence" to describe mass shootings, and because it's a term that has been and continues to be used to deliberately mislead the public.
The entire point of the term is to conflate all gun deaths as "violence"; to imply that violence involving a gun is somehow worse than, and also more preventable than, other types of violence; and to suggest that the cause of said violence is the gun and not the person perpetrating it.
But I also think you get that, and maybe you guys don't actually disagree at all.
https://youtu.be/kqpak5lFxvs
SNL is a bunch of greedy commies. Haven't watched the show for more than 5 minutes in years. (every few years I check to see how bad it is and am never disappointed)
But that being said this clip is very funny!
I’m still not getting the point.
People use guns to hunt and kill animals, defend themselves, defend other people and LE officers and military, commit robberies, commit terrorist acts, etc.
And then some weird category where someone just decides to kill a bunch of people for no criminal gain, no political reason, etc.
Legal or not, those all seem to have some intended purpose except the last category.
When it fits a narrative or control the media and progressives want spun in their favor, its “gun violence”, a public health crisis, an epidemic, or some other spin.
So I’m not sure what asking if a movie they don’t like is causing them to do backflips to negatively link it “gun violence” does credibility wise.
“Gun violence” as a descriptive label is flat out intellectually dishonest.
For the sake of focusing only on unlawful behavior what’s really being discussed is interpersonal violence as the causal component which just happen to utilize firearms as the means. They’re separate and distinct components.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
i think its growing on most people though.
i think its growing on most people though.
Because people are dumb
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
joedirt199
10-23-19, 07:19
Add in the statistics for vehicular deaths and gun violence takes a deep back seat.
Add in the statistics for vehicular deaths and gun violence takes a deep back seat.
....deaths involving firearms.........
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Five_Point_Five_Six
10-23-19, 08:46
So I finally got around to watching Taxi Driver after reading what you guys have to say about it, comparing it to Joker. I really didn’t care for it, I know it’s a classic and one of DeNiro’s first films but the dialogue was off, like film school disjointed and awkward. Joker was much better in my opinion.
Well it's 43 years old, so there's that.
joedirt199
10-23-19, 08:55
....deaths involving firearms.........
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I was refering to the left always making it out like gun related deaths are at the top of causes of death. There are several other ways to die that are more likely to get you than someone with a gun.
Add in the statistics for vehicular deaths and gun violence takes a deep back seat.
Did you mean to say "vehicle violence"? ;)
titsonritz
04-16-20, 16:53
I finally saw this one, best Joker ever IMO, most realistic for sure. I dug the Thomas Wayne connection.
Voodoochild
04-16-20, 17:57
It's slow going at first but it's a damn good movie.
When he fires eight shots from the revolver I just imagine that when the camera isnt on him he popped out shells and threw three more in from loose ammo in a pocket real quick.
Its possible. 😁
I’ll be honest, I was bored...maybe it was too deep for me but I just couldn’t get into it. I know I am in the minority here...
I’ll be honest, I was bored...maybe it was too deep for me but I just couldn’t get into it. I know I am in the minority here...
I can see that.
It's a cerebral type film. Not an "action" movie, not a "fun" movie. Ya gotta be in the right mood to really enjoy it.
More of a comedy than a drama. 😏
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.