Anyone carry a Beretta 92 series?

[7.62NATO]

What holster do you recommend for OWB/IWB carry of a Beretta 92FS? Let me know what your experience is with carrying this sidearm. Thanks.

[telecustom]

I have carried it for 5 years (and hated every minuteof it). If you can carry something else do it. I didn't have a choice (it was issued).

I ran either a Blackhawk CQC Paddle or a Safariland 6004 depending on the mission. Both worked well for their specific purpose.

[7.62NATO]

I have carried it for 5 years (and hated every minuteof it). If you can carry something else do it. I didn't have a choice (it was issued).

I ran either a Blackhawk CQC Paddle or a Safariland 6004 depending on the mission. Both worked well for their specific purpose.

Why did you hate the M9? Please be specific. Thanks.

[Iraqgunz]

The current MIL issue mags for the Beretta suck ass. Aside from that there are alot more parts to break. I have seen locking blocks crack, slides crack on the ejection port side, the frames crack on the right side where the grip goes on etc....

When I carried my issue Beretta it was in a Safariland 6004.

BTW- Are you MIL?

[yrac]

Moved to "Handguns" forum.

[John_Wayne777]

What holster do you recommend for OWB/IWB carry of a Beretta 92FS? Let me know what your experience is with carrying this sidearm. Thanks.

I carried one for many years. I carried it most of the time in a Blade-Tech IWB holster for concealed carry.

I had my old 92FS reworked and customized by Ernie Langdon back when he was LTT. I also had it refinished in hard chrome. It's a neat blaster...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/jwayne_777/92fs.jpg

You'll find that military users of the M9 sometimes have a low opinion of the weapon because frankly the military's concept of "maintenance" on the M9 is...well....not the greatest.

The military guns get beat to hell and when they are maintained the parts used to maintain them aren't always brand new parts. This leads to lots of breakages.

The biggest pain in the neck I encountered with the 92 was that stupid trigger return spring. They are supposed to be replaced every 3,000 rounds IIRC. When the spring breaks (I went through several of them) you have to manually reset the trigger. When the Wolff Gunsprings TCU came out I thanked God and installed them in my 92's. Haven't had to worry about it since.

The worst malfunction I had with the 92 was a busted firing pin. I didn't discover the firing pin was busted until I stepped up on the line at a Blackwater Handgun II course and tried to run an El Presidente.

BEEP....CLICK...tap, rack, CLICK...tap, rack, CLICK...CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK ^&!#$#^%!!!!!

I almost needed to use that gun on the trip down to BW when some "Canadians" decided I looked like a good guy to screw with. Thankfully I had made a practice of carrying a backup after hearing guys like Ken Hackathorn make the case for a BUG for years.

I bought the gun used (a former duty gun) and I have no idea how many rounds or trigger pulls it had prior to getting into my hands. After having Ernie replace all the pins, springs, and the locking block I haven't had another problem. My 1st gen Elite (which I bought new) hasn't given me a moment's trouble, even through multiple 3,000 round training courses.

I'm not getting rid of my 92's but they are essentially safe queens at this point. The last time I shot one of them was at the November 2007 low light course when my M&P's night sights went TU on me.

If someone really wants a 92, by all means get one. Use factory Beretta magazines and install a TCU and you'll likely have good results with the pistol. For those contemplating a 92 versus other handguns, I'd say that they are probably better served by looking at a Glock 17/19 or a Smith M&P. They are more concealable, easier for an end user to fix, and generally fit people better than the big 92 does.

[telecustom]

I concur with the broken locking blocks. I have never broken one myself, but I have had to fix several.

My major issues with the 92FS(M9) are the trigger and safety.

Trigger: usually around 12lb pull and not very consistent from one shot to another.

Safety: Having the Safety (Decocker) located on the slide can easily get you killed. Let us walk through some scenarios.

1. You draw and present your pistol. While as you draw the weapon, you disengage the safety with the with your firing hand thumb. No wait, you can’t reach it without adjusting your grip. You are SOL.

2. You are firing and have a Type 1 or 2 malfunction. You push/pull mag. Rack the slide and continue to fight only to find out you put the weapon on safe in the process. Your trigger is unresponsive and YOU ARE DEAD.

Those two issues alone make that weapon a non-option (unless I don’t have a choice). When we carry our M9s, we don’t even use our safeties. They just get in the way. Now that is not an option in most units. Luckily, we are not burdened by Big Army crap.

[John_Wayne777]

Ya...the safety on the M9 sucks. I greatly prefer the "G" models that only have a decocker.

[Robb Jensen]

When I carry a Beretta I carry a 92G Vertec with a 'gotm4' trigger job and loaded up with Winchester Ranger 127gr+P+ ammo.

[theJanitor]

Ya...the safety on the M9 sucks. I greatly prefer the "G" models that only have a decocker.

i have a 96G Elite. it's a great gun, and very accurate to boot. but it's just too darn big. it sits in the safe

[JSantoro]

What holster do you recommend for OWB/IWB carry of a Beretta 92FS? Let me know what your experience is with carrying this sidearm. Thanks.

I also used a Blade-Tech IWB when I went to the HRP course at Quantico. I managed to deal with it, but I'd have been WAY happier if my diabolical plot to get a MEU/SOC pistol as my TO weapon had succeeded. Anyhow, the holster almost made me forget how ridiculously fat the M9 is, until I pulled the thing and got harshly reminded how fat it is when I had to constantly reset my grip.

Between that, the slide-mounted safety, and the caliber, I hate that pistol with the passion of a thousand fiery suns. Once I got through the course, I never carried an M9 concealed again, but I thought that the Blade-Tech was a very decent holster.

[kaltblitz]

I carried a 92FS for a while. I only used Beretta factory mags and my only modification was a "D" hammer spring. I think it made a great uniformed duty gun, but it's fairly large to conceal. I never had any problems with it, but I changed out the springs religiously. One of my greatest regrets was not having LTT work the gun over when I had the chance.

I never owned but have a bit of experience with the 92 Centurion. While only knocking a bit off the front end, I thought it made the gun much more concealable.

I generally tell people to avoid the 96F. I got to watch SFPD have bunches of problems with theirs related to key-holing. The pistol was simply designed for the 9mm round and boring the barrel out to 40 S&W just didn't cut it.

Take a look at a write up I did on Beretta's awhile ago. It's posted on ToddG's website under articles at www.pistol-training.com

[Iraqgunz]

I agree 100% and can say that I have experienced most if not all of what you just said. Fortunately I also did not have to carry mine on safe.


I concur with the broken locking blocks. I have never broken one myself, but I have had to fix several.

My major issues with the 92FS(M9) are the trigger and safety.

Trigger: usually around 12lb pull and not very consistent from one shot to another.

Safety: Having the Safety (Decocker) located on the slide can easily get you killed. Let us walk through some scenarios.

1. You draw and present your pistol. While as you draw the weapon, you disengage the safety with the with your firing hand thumb. No wait, you can’t reach it without adjusting your grip. You are SOL.

2. You are firing and have a Type 1 or 2 malfunction. You push/pull mag. Rack the slide and continue to fight only to find out you put the weapon on safe in the process. Your trigger is unresponsive and YOU ARE DEAD.

Those two issues alone make that weapon a non-option (unless I don’t have a choice). When we carry our M9s, we don’t even use our safeties. They just get in the way. Now that is not an option in most units. Luckily, we are not burdened by Big Army crap.

[ToddG]

Between that, the slide-mounted safety, and the caliber, I hate that pistol with the passion of a thousand fiery suns.

A bit of hyperborean hyperbole. :cool:

I've got relatively small hands, and while the 90-series Berettas are certainly thick around the grip they're also certainly manageable. A short trigger was all it took to make the gun very shootable. In fact, shortly after I switched to the Beretta I made Master-class in IDPA for the first time ... something I was unable to do with a Glock at the time.

The safety is unfortunate but it's not exactly death on a stick. First, as has been mentioned, the smart move is to get a G-model. If that's not an option, then you simply have to train to understand how the safety works. This is no different than a 1911 ... you need to learn how to hold the gun properly and operate the controls properly. The 92FS/M9 safety doesn't flip on just by staring at it hard ... it takes a reasonable (and usually conscious) action. The exception, I'll certainly grant you, is if you're performing a malfunction clearance. In that case, you need to train so that disengaging the safety is part of your clearance procedure or racking the slide in a manner that doesn't engage the safety. Both are possible,

As for caliber, I never felt undergunned with good 9mm ammo. YMMV, I suppose ...

[Sam]

I have a Vertec and a Centurion, both are G models, so there's no problem with having the gun go "safe" by accident. Like Todd said, practice and training will eliminate operator's induced error. If you're issued an F or FS variant, then you're stuck with it. I won't go into the magazine issues because others have touched on it. I have spare locking blocks (courtesy of a former Team Beretta shooter), I do need to get some spare trigger return springs.

I have small hands but don't find the gun too big to manipulate. I can reach the trigger just fine. I did my own 5 minute trigger job on both guns by installing 1911 main springs in them. I get 100% ignition with all types of ammo.

For classes, matches and most concealed carry, I use an Alessi ACP rig.

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/17880ACP_002.jpg

For IWB, it's the Comp Tac.

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/17880ct_001.jpg

[John Frazer]

I used to carry a 92G -- box-stock trade-in from the Indiana State Police.

It had great shooting characteristics -- relatively heavy, low bore axis, long sight radius, short trigger reset -- and I don't believe I ever had a malfunction of any kind. I can't say that for my Glock or SIG (though to be fair, both time and round count with the Beretta was much shorter).

My only two problems with it were:

1. The heel of my left hand tended to bump the slide lock, so it wouldn't lock open on an empty mag. (I have the same problem with Glocks.) On the Beretta, it's easily solved by grinding down the lever slightly.

2. The long barrel made IWB carry, especially in a car, very uncomfortable. I used a Kramer IWB #3, and although this is an excellent design that I've had good luck with on the Glock and SIG, it just didn't work for me with the Beretta. It didn't seem to keep the pistol from slipping out of the proper cant, and in the car it felt like I had a tent pole behind my hip.

[JonInWA]

After several 92s, (issue 92FS, 92D Centurion, 92F Compact Type M), the one that I've settled on is my current 92D, with Trijicon nightsights and Ergo Extreme rubber grips. Reliability has literally been 100%; for magazines I prefer either the current Check-Mate dry-film finished magazines or Beretta/MDS magazines.

I'm not a huge guy (5'8", 197 lbs), but the 92 is easy to carry with the right holster an belt. For concealed carry holsters, I prefer either a Kramer #2 horsehide IWB, an Orca (unfortunately discontinued) IWB, or a Wilderness Zip-Slide. For open carry in the field, I've found the Bianchi military M12/UM84 flap holster to be excellent.

The 92D has a superb buttery-smooth rolling triggerpull, with a nice surprise break-and no external safety.

John Wayne, I certainly respect your experience, but replacing trigger return springs at the 3K round count seems aggressive, expecially considering that the recommended recoil spring replacement is only every 5-8K rounds. As I recall from some of ToddG's old Beretta Armorer's class notes, I believe that the trigger return spring can actually be popped out and re-inserted backwards if it breaks to provide a fully functional spring.

While I prefer my Glocks for regular carry, the 92 is an excellent, reliable and durable gun in my experience over the years-assuming proper maintenance and lubrication on the part of the user.

Best, Jon

[ToddG]

The trigger spring can sometimes be reversed, it depends on how it breaks.

While I personally think 3k is an overly cautious replacement schedule for the spring, it's cheap insurance. The spring was substantially improved over the original and while they still break, I'd feel perfectly comfortable replacing it every 5k. If you shoot a lot, the difference is worth worrying about. If you put less than 10k rounds through the gun in the year, the difference is negligible.

I did not like the Wolff captured trigger spring/rod contraption. It substantially hindered the speed of the trigger's reset and had a noticeably drag feeling that negatively affected the trigger's smoothness. For a gun that won't see regular maintenance during high round counts it might be a reasonable option, but I'd rather just replace the stock spring regularly.

[John_Wayne777]

John Wayne, I certainly respect your experience, but replacing trigger return springs at the 3K round count seems aggressive, expecially considering that the recommend recoil spring replacement is only every 5-8K rounds.


That may be true. I was never a Beretta armorer so the replacement schedule may be longer than I thought. I heard 3K from a police armorer years ago and with the amount of dryfire practice I was doing with the 92 3K seemed to barely cover it.

Then I discovered the TCU and installed that rather than fooling with the trigger springs anymore.

[John_Wayne777]

I did not like the Wolff captured trigger spring/rod contraption. It substantially hindered the speed of the trigger's reset and had a noticeably drag feeling that negatively affected the trigger's smoothness. For a gun that won't see regular maintenance during high round counts it might be a reasonable option, but I'd rather just replace the stock spring regularly.

I talked to Ernie Langdon about the TCU and he wasn't fond of it either. Apparently he could still deliver a good trigger job around one, because mine is great.

[Steve in PA]

I don't currently carry my 92FS for duty (Sig P220 now) but I have owned mine for about 18 years. Have a LOT of rounds through it though. The old style locking block broke around year 15. Dropped in the new style locking block and never had a problem since.

I never once had my Beretta fail for feed, fire or eject any ammo that I put thorugh it. When I went through the academy I saw lots of Glocks choke on certain ammo. I would pick up the round, drop it in my mag and fire it without a problem.

Flipping off the safety is a no brainer. If you complain you can't do it, then the gun doesn't fit your hand. I've never had a problem or issue with flipping the safety on or off with my thumb. I also don't have to adjust my grip when doing this.

[fabulous45s]

My experience parallels what many others have already said. If I'm given a choice, I carry a 1911 based weapon or a M11. I've had good luck using a London Bridge thigh rig and the beloved 6004. I don't have much IWB experience with it, though.

[HeadHunter]

I carry a 92D quite regularly in a Safariland 527. Mine has the Wolff trigger spring, which gives me a lot of peace of mind. In one class I taught, a composite team of 14 personnel had 6 trigger springs break. It sort of freaked me out.

I like the 92D. I had a threat management incident years ago that made me somewhat uncomfortable with a standard Glock trigger. The 92D was my reaction. Revolvers are no big deal to me, so I don't mind the DAO pull.

[Bigun]

After several 92s, (92D Centurion, 92F Compact Type M), the one that I've settled on is my current 92D, with Trijicon nightsights and Ergo Extreme rubber grips. Reliability has literally been 100%; for magazines I prefer either the current Check-Mate dry-film finished magazines or Beretta/MDS magazines.

I'm not a huge guy (5'8", 197 lbs), but the 92 is easy to carry with the right holster an belt. For concealed carry holsters, I prefer either a Kramer #2 horsehide IWB, an Orca (unfortunately discontinued) IWB, or a Wilderness Zip-Slide. For open carry in the field, I've found the Bianchi military M12/UM84 flap holster to be excellent.

The 92D has a superb buttery-smooth rolling triggerpull, with a nice surprise break-and no external safety.

John Wayne, I certainly respect your experience, but replacing trigger return springs at the 3K round count seems aggressive, expecially considering that the recommend recoil spring replacement is only every 5-8K rounds. As I recall from some of ToddG's old Beretta Armorer's class notes, I believe that the trigger return spring can actually be popped out and re-inserted backwards if it breaks to provide a fully functional spring.

While I prefer my Glocks for regular carry, the 92 is an excellent, reliable and durable gun in my experience over the years-assuming proper maintenance and lubrication on the part of the user.

Best, Jon I agree My duty weapon is a 92D Centurion, 10,000 trouble free rounds down range, 0 stoppages or broken parts. Springs all replaced before I went off to the firearms instructor's school. I also own my own 92D Centurion, a 92FS Centurion and a regular 92FS Police Special. All have been perfect function wise and are accurate to boot. My hands are large and I stand 6'6" tall and 300lbs so concealing this weapon or any other up to my 7 1/2" Redhawk 44 mag is a non issue. My normal carry is in a Desantis Cozy Partner IWB with a single mag carrier on the off side It is comfortable and secure. As a side note I replaced the mainsprings on my non D models with the D spring and all trigger springs are wolf. But my duty weapon has only had Beretta springs without issues. I have seen 1 cracked locking block which I believe to have been caused by lack of lubrication as this Officer is the only one in our dept that has ever had problems with the Beretta and he refuses to dirty up a clean gun with lube read IDIOT. I prefer to carry the D model Centurion to me it just feels and points right, kinda like Beretta's version of the commander and the lack of safety makes it a safer version of the Glock, I consider the long smooth trigger to be safer than the short trigger with a dinglehopper and I shoot DA only guns extremely well.