View Full Version : Films that never got their due...
ramairthree
10-09-19, 16:19
Around January to August 1987 three Vietnam movies came out.
One film had a huge name director and some well known actors.
Another film had a huge name director and made some well known actors.
They both had huge budgets, and are very well known.
One had a much smaller budget.
It is not spoken of as often.
Was it too much of a recreated documentary instead of a political statement?
But,
I recently watched Hamburger Hill for the first time in decades.
You can feel the suck of the steep terrain. You know the oh shit of a buddy just getting hit. You can sense the moment that last dry square inch at the top of your ass is finally soaked in The rain. Of not having dry socks in days.
It made no dramatic heroes, set up no huge outlandish scenarios,
Is this why it has had so little cultural impact?
Didn't fit the preferred narrative that VN vets were just drug using pawns or homicidal rapists / murderers.
Hamburger Hill I think still struck a “too soon” vibe.
It didn’t condemn the Military Arms Complex, it didn’t have dudes using shotguns as bongs, and it didn’t have squad level Civil Wars.
It was the Black Hawk Down of the 80s and maybe more than a little too far ahead of its time.
84 Charlie Mopic was awesome
Siege at Firebase Gloria was terribly unsung. Yeah it was a B movie but it had heart. It had a message. It was deceptive. You see the VC honcho pontificating how even if they lose they still win.
The worst part of Hamburger Hill is when they are getting air support and their own guys get M60’d on accident and there was nothing they could do. It was hopeless but they still kept going.
As a youth that one part where that one Charlie gets his head took off with an M60 was brutal. It wasn’t a cartoon. And IIRC the guy who made the movie actually was in the 101st.
I remember "Platoon Leader" from that era.
I remember "Platoon Leader" from that era.
I have the book. Really worth it to track down the book.
ramairthree
10-09-19, 18:30
Hamburger Hill I think still struck a “too soon” vibe.
It didn’t condemn the Military Arms Complex, it didn’t have dudes using shotguns as bongs, and it didn’t have squad level Civil Wars.
It was the Black Hawk Down of the 80s and maybe more than a little too far ahead of its time.
84 Charlie Mopic was awesome
Siege at Firebase Gloria was terribly unsung. Yeah it was a B movie but it had heart. It had a message. It was deceptive. You see the VC honcho pontificating how even if they lose they still win.
The worst part of Hamburger Hill is when they are getting air support and their own guys get M60’d on accident and there was nothing they could do. It was hopeless but they still kept going.
As a youth that one part where that one Charlie gets his head took off with an M60 was brutal. It wasn’t a cartoon. And IIRC the guy who made the movie actually was in the 101st.
I was a 60 gunner in OG 107s with similar kit, a BC that was a PL in the 101st in VN, had had a a Lima Co LRRP with break 8n service as a RIP instructor, etc.
We bemoaned the post Grenada pre Panama era of Ranger Bn instead of firing up guys in the jungle with our 60s like that.
Edit-
Yes, there were a lot of smaller films even dealing with the era in the budget theatre, drive in, and VHS realm in the 80s and into the 90s.
But watching Hamburger Hill recently in terms of uniforms, etc. I was struck by how high the production values were. We see movies with ten times the budget and big stars that can’t even get uniform patches right.
Whiskey_Bravo
10-09-19, 18:39
Hamburger Hill was one of my favorites. I haven't watched it in years but I think it warrants a modern viewing.
As Firefly said, The Siege of Firebase Gloria was a fantastic movie that never really got it's due in my opinion. I met Gunny years back at an event and he was an honest to goodness great guy.
Siege at Firebase Gloria was terribly unsung. Yeah it was a B movie but it had heart. It had a message. It was deceptive. You see the VC honcho pontificating how even if they lose they still win.
Almost mentioned that one. In many ways better than Full Metal Jacket.
Firebase Gloria is what I usually double feature with Boys of Company C.
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-10-19, 08:50
I was a 60 gunner in OG 107s with similar kit, a BC that was a PL in the 101st in VN, had had a a Lima Co LRRP with break 8n service as a RIP instructor, etc.
We bemoaned the post Grenada pre Panama era of Ranger Bn instead of firing up guys in the jungle with our 60s like that.
Can you translate that for me?
Two great Lee Marvin films:
The Big Red One-1980. Story of the director’s experiences in WW2 with Marvin playing the Sam Fuller character. Not a blockbuster, just the story of a squad trying to survive. Came and went without much notice.
Emperor of the North-1973. Marvin is king of the hoboes with a young punk trying to claim the title. Ernest Borgnine plays the sadistic railroad bull all out. The studios botched the release. First in just a few theaters, then wider when word of mouth created a buzz. But they changed the title which confused the public and wasted the earlier publicity.
There was a gun rental place that got guns for Hamburger Hill.
When production and shooting was done, I know they made a killing on the live guns that were used in the set.
They sold out quickly...
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84 Charlie Mopic and Firebase Gloria were outstanding.
I haven’t seen Hamburger Hill. Hadn’t even heard of it. I need to correct that error.
We Were Soldiers Once hasn’t been mentioned, but was quite good. Book was good as well.
Go Tell The Spartans with Burt Lancaster was a good film.
Another Big Up for Boys in Company C. The black dude wasn’t a caricature. He was a regular guy.
Same for Hamburger Hill.
Most black dudes in Nam era movies are portrayed as victims of the system, Gordon Goodbrother with the Bagger Vance man behind the Man hidden figures spiel, or like a less fortunate Ebonics speaking Jar Jar who exists to be the dude who dies first and worst. A lot of legit fighting outfits were volunteers.
But again, people use movies to push a narrative. Heaven forbid people are treated like people.
People in bad positions say nasty things but still drive on.
Because it don’t mean nothin’
Grand58742
10-10-19, 16:59
Almost mentioned that one. In many ways better than Full Metal Jacket.
Firebase Gloria is what I usually double feature with Boys of Company C.
Honestly, other than the basic training portion, Full Metal Jacket was not that good.
You could stop the movie just after Hartman gets shot and Pyle eats his M14 and not miss a thing.
Another Big Up for Boys in Company C. The black dude wasn’t a caricature. He was a regular guy.
And one of the first films where somebody pulls a balisong. "What else you got in there lipstick?"
Honestly, other than the basic training portion, Full Metal Jacket was not that good.
You could stop the movie just after Hartman gets shot and Pyle eats his M14 and not miss a thing.
It’s worth it to track down the original book.
The battle of Hue and the subsequent time at Khe Sanh were epic. A little weird at points but a good weird. The sequel The Phantom Blooper was also good. Joker ends up captured by the VC and sorta switches sides and totes a camo painted M79, a sidefolder VZ 58, and wears Black pajamas and shoots at an Air Cav helo with a 40MM. It sounds worse than it was. Almost comedic. I like that one line “As I fired a grenade at the big Yellow and Black Air Cav insignia; it occurred to me this was the first time in 100 years that anyone in my family fired a shot at Federal troops”
Full Metal Jacket the movie sucks and Kubrick deserves a kick in the balls.
Plus that bit about Ermey doing his own lines was a lie. Everything the gunnery sergeant says is taken word for word for word from the book.
There used to be a Gustav Hasford fansite where you could read his stories and also how he wanted Dale Dye to be the advisor and hated Ermey.
Him and Dye were in the same outfit and were friends. Also how Kubrick tried to gyp him out of writing credit.
Plus the female sniper used an SKS in the book and was wiped out by an M60......tank.
For the record, I met Ermey one time at a Glock match and he was a nice guy.
And one of the first films where somebody pulls a balisong. "What else you got in there lipstick?"
Thought it was an Italian switchblade. I got it on disc and its been a while though
Honestly, other than the basic training portion, Full Metal Jacket was not that good.
You could stop the movie just after Hartman gets shot and Pyle eats his M14 and not miss a thing.
Given that the film liberally hijacked "The Boys in Company C" I agree. Not only that R. Lee Ermy completely eclipsed everyone else in the film with Pvt. Pyle running a close second. Once those two were gone, who in the film is left that we actually care about? Joker just isn't that interesting and engaging, Matthew Modine is often annoying as he is anything else. The sniper scene with Doc J and 8 Ball is the only other powerful scene in the film. Other than Cowboy I doubt most people could even name any of the other characters in the film.
Thought it was an Italian switchblade. I got it on disc and its been a while though
Nope, they were in the Pines, balisong all the way. He just rolled it open smooth rather than put on a Benihana knife show.
Nope, they were in the Pines, balisong all the way. He just rolled it open smooth rather than put on a Benihana knife show.
This alone merits a rewatch.
I have only seen a Puerto Rican and a Filipino do a balisong that smooth
Both chicks.
This alone merits a rewatch.
I have only seen a Puerto Rican and a Filipino do a balisong that smooth
Both chicks.
Real Filipinos open it behind their leg so you don't yet know it's going to be a knife fight.
Grand58742
10-10-19, 19:14
It’s worth it to track down the original book.
The battle of Hue and the subsequent time at Khe Sanh were epic. A little weird at points but a good weird. The sequel The Phantom Blooper was also good. Joker ends up captured by the VC and sorta switches sides and totes a camo painted M79, a sidefolder VZ 58, and wears Black pajamas and shoots at an Air Cav helo with a 40MM. It sounds worse than it was. Almost comedic. I like that one line “As I fired a grenade at the big Yellow and Black Air Cav insignia; it occurred to me this was the first time in 100 years that anyone in my family fired a shot at Federal troops”
Full Metal Jacket the movie sucks and Kubrick deserves a kick in the balls.
Plus that bit about Ermey doing his own lines was a lie. Everything the gunnery sergeant says is taken word for word for word from the book.
There used to be a Gustav Hasford fansite where you could read his stories and also how he wanted Dale Dye to be the advisor and hated Ermey.
Him and Dye were in the same outfit and were friends. Also how Kubrick tried to gyp him out of writing credit.
Plus the female sniper used an SKS in the book and was wiped out by an M60......tank.
For the record, I met Ermey one time at a Glock match and he was a nice guy.
I never realized it was based on a book.
I met Ermey a long time ago at Peterson AFB. He was traipsing through Colorado and stopped for gas on Base. Ended up signing autographs and talking with people for about 20 minutes after he finished filling his tank.
Grand58742
10-10-19, 19:17
Given that the film liberally hijacked "The Boys in Company C" I agree. Not only that R. Lee Ermy completely eclipsed everyone else in the film with Pvt. Pyle running a close second. Once those two were gone, who in the film is left that we actually care about? Joker just isn't that interesting and engaging, Matthew Modine is often annoying as he is anything else. The sniper scene with Doc J and 8 Ball is the only other powerful scene in the film. Other than Cowboy I doubt most people could even name any of the other characters in the film.
I thought Modine did an exceptional job in Memphis Belle.
Another underrated war film that never really "go its due" was The Tuskegee Airmen. All star cast that showed how hard those guys had it.
I much preferred that one to Redtails.
I never realized it was based on a book.
I met Ermey a long time ago at Peterson AFB. He was traipsing through Colorado and stopped for gas on Base. Ended up signing autographs and talking with people for about 20 minutes after he finished filling his tank.
The Short Timers and The Phantom Blooper respectively by Gustav Hasford.
Kubrick tried to totally displace billing with more acknowledgment to Michael Herr who only contributed to apocryphal bit about the 60 gunner shooting women and children.
It was intended to be a trilogy where Joker gets sick of the America he’d come home to and how changed he’d become. He was approached by CIA spooks in the VA hospital and decided to give his backpay to his kid sister and use his press pass before they expired to go back to Vietnam and see if he could find the young Vietnamese girl teacher he’d become infatuated with and see if he could “make sense” of it.
Like the Star Wars of Vietnam (my analogy, not his)
He had a lot of angst but not in an Oliver Stone way.
Another notable line was where he took the Tokarev pistol out of his AWOL bag at home and said “It’s good to have a friend again”
In fact earlier in the book Phantom Blooper he uses the Tokarev to mozambique drill an NVA charging him with a spiker he quick draws from a chinese made shoulder sling.
I wish he would have lived to write his last part. He was a smartass and a sartrarian and had a sick sense of humor.
I thought Modine did an exceptional job in Memphis Belle.
Another underrated war film that never really "go its due" was The Tuskegee Airmen. All star cast that showed how hard those guys had it.
I much preferred that one to Redtails.
Agree with all of that. Especially Tuskegee Airmen kicking the crap out of Redtails.
ramairthree
10-11-19, 02:00
Can you translate that for me?
There was not a lot of equipment change in twenty years.
If you were in Ranger Bn, SF, LRSS, Pathfinder Platoon, etc. you had the same M16A1s, CAR 15s, M1911A1s, M60s, jungle fatigues, jungle boots, Bonnie caps, Load carrying equipment, etc. as someone in Vietnam.
In that era, Battalion Commanders were likely 101st Airborne Division, or other still existing unit, veterans from Vietnam. Your senior NCOS, or less senior NCOs if they had a break in service, were LRRP/Ranger Company and SF vets from Vietnam.
Being in a Ranger or other similar unit post Grenada and pre Panama sucked because there was no war on. The way crye wearing, ball cap sporting, sneaker bootie, bearded operator types is the current coolness,
Was the the way nomex clad, big porn stash operators were the coolness prior to that,
Is how the cool factor was then for fatigue wearing jungle warrior types.
It may be hard for many to get,
But some SOF type in the 1980s in his jungle fatigues and boots with his M60 or CAR 15 was, well, jealous of not having a war in the jungle to go to for a year like Vietnam.
The Short Timers and The Phantom Blooper respectively by Gustav Hasford.
$55.00 is cheapest on Amazon for 'The Short-Timers' and $20.00 for 'The Phantom Blooper.'
Since I'd want to read them in order, any suggestions on a source?
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