View Full Version : Cali Power Outage
"Californians fume over PG&E power outage"
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-10-09/pg-e-cuts-power-across-northern-california-as-winds-bring-critical-fire-
Up to 3 million will be without power for up to 5 days to prevent fires due to crappy line maintenance and negligent forest management.
But how will they charge their electric cars?????????
When I first posted this I thought it was funny as hell, but the more I think about it not funny at all, just another perfect example of what leftest rule gets you. Power company can't afford to maintain the lines because all their money has to go to renewable energy, forest service can't cut down trees because gotta protect the environment. And yet they are the smart ones who want to lecture us about how ere live. I suspect this power outage will cause a massive increase in criminal activity so for any caught behind enemy lines stay safe.
Whiskey_Bravo
10-10-19, 08:24
I think it's pretty funny. Sue / fine the power company into bankruptcy and then bitch when they turn the power off to prevent it from happening again.
The_War_Wagon
10-10-19, 08:47
Q. What did socialists use before candles?
A. Electricity :eek:
Q. What did socialists use before candles?
A. Electricity :eek:
Now that is funny.:jester:
"Californians fume over PG&E power outage"
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-10-09/pg-e-cuts-power-across-northern-california-as-winds-bring-critical-fire-
Up to 3 million will be without power for up to 5 days to prevent fires due to crappy line maintenance and negligent forest management.
But how will they charge their electric cars?????????
When I first posted this I thought it was funny as hell, but the more I think about it not funny at all, just another perfect example of what leftest rule gets you. Power company can't afford to maintain the lines because all their money has to go to renewable energy, forest service can't cut down trees because gotta protect the environment. And yet they are the smart ones who want to lecture us about how ere live. I suspect this power outage will cause a massive increase in criminal activity so for any caught behind enemy lines stay safe.
It is so bad now in Kalifornia that the internet is broken...... Or your link is broken....... :jester:
LAslimes must have figured out it made their socialist paradise look bad.:o
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/10/09/california-power-outage-pg-e-stuck-position-their-own-making/3924699002/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/10/09/california-pge-power-outage-affect-millions-prevent-wildfire/3916848002/
https://www.desertsun.com/story/news/2019/10/09/california-power-outage-what-to-do-when-power-goes-out/3925734002/
https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2019/10/california-power-outage-pge-oakland-zoo-animals-endangered-toad-frog/
https://nypost.com/2019/10/09/california-faces-historic-power-outage-due-to-fire-danger/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/northern-california-faces-massive-power-outage-as-pgande-hedges-wildfire-risk/2019/10/09/576facfa-ead9-11e9-9306-47cb0324fd44_story.html
1_click_off
10-10-19, 10:57
It might prevent lighting up a tree that is slapping the lines during the wind, but what about the tree fallen on the line in the storm. With this thought process, one would think they need to inspect every line before they energize back up too.
It might prevent lighting up a tree that is slapping the lines during the wind, but what about the tree fallen on the line in the storm. With this thought process, one would think they need to inspect every line before they energize back up too.That appears to be the plan. Sucks, but I don't blame them...
"Given the prolonged period during which the wind event will unfold, and the large number of power line miles that will need to be inspected before restoration, customers are being asked to prepare for an extended outage," PG&E said in a release.
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
titsonritz
10-10-19, 11:10
Nothing more taxes won't solve.
The fire danger is from the high voltage lines in remote areas, the really tall towers, in Wyoming we used to call it line slap, if you have too much slack in your lines and wind starts them swinging too much and you get two phases too close together you get arching. Solution is too adjust tension on the lines or install spreader bars to keep lines apart. The other part of the problem is the forest and underbrush has been allowed to built up too close to the power line right of way, all of that needs to be cut back. But those solutions all cost money and with the renewable energy mandates they just don't have the funds needed. Wind and solar always cost more and deliver less than promised. So problem is caused by renewable energy mandates and forest mismanagement pushed by the greenies, but that will all be covered up so lets blame Trump i 3,2,1....
titsonritz
10-10-19, 11:45
Well, if Hillary was president there would be no such as California wild fires.
Coal Dragger
10-10-19, 11:47
Here’s hoping they freeze to death in the dark.
Unlikely, but a guy can hope.
Whiskey_Bravo
10-10-19, 11:52
It might prevent lighting up a tree that is slapping the lines during the wind, but what about the tree fallen on the line in the storm. With this thought process, one would think they need to inspect every line before they energize back up too.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/10/09/california-power-outage-pg-e-stuck-position-their-own-making/3924699002/
What’s more, the utility warned that it could take days to restore power because all power lines would need to be inspected for possible wind-related damage before electricity could once again flow.
Well, if Hillary was president there would be no such as California wild fires.
Because they would have "killed" themselves?
Outlander Systems
10-10-19, 11:58
>idiot base vote literal retards into office
>literal retards pass insane policies
>blame power company which is in compliance with policies
>idiot base attack power company and not literal retards in office
Pinnacle of Virtue: People paying themselves $500,000/yr to run NGOs and "non-profits"
Total Scumbag: Guy on a pole in a rainstorm making sure you can charge to phone to post pictures on Instagram
California, ladies and gentlemen.
Maybe it’ll get better. The federal gov is handing out money like trick or treat candy for grid improvement projects. Linemen are flocking to Cali and a few other states due to the high wages the demand has created.
We had a wildfire here in August that burned 50 homes started by a tree falling from outside the power line easement into the powerline. People were up in arms about it, the same people that were bitching that the power company was clearing trees from their easement two months prior.
Now they want to sue the power company, which is a co-op. So, if the power co-op loses, the same people that sued will be paying for the lawsuit they won (along with the rest of us). They very likely won't win since the tree came from outside the easement.
People are dumb.
forest service can't cut down trees because gotta protect the environment.
Not just this, but also completely different policies than east coast agencies regarding controlled burns and natural fires.
Wildfires out west are significantly worse because of core policy differences. Well-intentioned tree-hugging.
They are a natural phenomenon that actually it's not just ok, but required for some habitats.
Dr. Bullseye
10-10-19, 13:41
The problem is Blue State California has their power cut. We in Red State California are used to this. But it is the power company's fault. They cost all of you non-Californians millions and millions of dollars fighting fires on federal lands and the government was too chicken-----t to go after them for the money. Instead, the company used federal courts and bankruptcy protection to evade their responsibilities. Now, they are tying to punish citizens of California for their problems. But there is a solution.
They are in bankruptcy and cannot move laterally so to speak---they cannot sell the company now. Now, the State Legislature should mandate installation of underground lines and forbid the company from passing the cost on to consumers. It is a cost of doing business in the eco-bio-climato-world of California. After they do this then mandate a breakup of the company.
Sitting in the dark for 6 months would be like taking an AIDS patient who led a reckless lifestyle off Truvada
Self correcting
Go watch a Western. Most take place in California. You either tamed the wild or you died.
Dr. Bullseye
10-10-19, 13:46
Not just this, but also completely different policies than east coast agencies regarding controlled burns and natural fires.
Wildfires out west are significantly worse because of core policy differences. Well-intentioned tree-hugging.
They are a natural phenomenon that actually it's not just ok, but required for some habitats.
I really wish east coasters would not comment on things they know nothing about. One of those being forest succession in Western States. We have had 15,000 years of Indian burning our forests for hunting purposes each fall. We live in a sub-climax fores setting which is prone to rapidly spreading fires. "Controlled burns" or native burning for hunting desiccate the environment. Australia went from a seasonal monsoon forest to a desert because of Aboriginal burning practices. We were part way there in California. Leave nature alone.
The problem is Blue State California has their power cut. We in Red State California are used to this. But it is the power company's fault. They cost all of you non-Californians millions and millions of dollars fighting fires on federal lands and the government was too chicken-----t to go after them for the money. Instead, the company used federal courts and bankruptcy protection to evade their responsibilities. Now, they are tying to punish citizens of California for their problems. But there is a solution.
They are in bankruptcy and cannot move laterally so to speak---they cannot sell the company now. Now, the State Legislature should mandate installation of underground lines and forbid the company from passing the cost on to consumers. It is a cost of doing business in the eco-bio-climato-world of California. After they do this then mandate a breakup of the company.
Lol, Power companies have no choice but to pass costs to consumers (or tax payers). Underground power is good for about 30 years then has to be replaced. The reconduct job would put every other underground utility in jeopardy. Overhead distribution is the cheapest and easiest distribution system to build and maintain.
Averageman
10-10-19, 13:50
You can't explain to a rabid far left environmentalist that trimming brush and removing dead falls are responsible forestry management.
I wrote a paper about forestry management in college circa 1995, I thought the professor's head was going to explode after he quit foaming at the mouth.
It's really about time people wake up and smell the coffee and let the adults in the room go back to managing things again.
California is an excellent example of going off the rails because of some environmental BS and the Socialst perspective of PG&E turning enough of a profit to maintain their lines.
I really wish east coasters would not comment on things they know nothing about. One of those being forest succession in Western States. We have had 15,000 years of Indian burning our forests for hunting purposes each fall. We live in a sub-climax fores setting which is prone to rapidly spreading fires. "Controlled burns" or native burning for hunting desiccate the environment. Australia went from a seasonal monsoon forest to a desert because of Aboriginal burning practices. We were part way there in California. Leave nature alone.
Them goddamn Injuns!
t. A goddamn Injun :p
But I sympathize with people trapped in Cali and it is an otherwise gorgeous place but the leadership needs to go
How do you “leave nature alone” and have all of the conveniences of modern society?
How do you “leave nature alone” and have all of the conveniences of modern society?
It’s tricky.
Like. I’m not opposed to green measures, Solar Power, Nuclear Power(if properly maintained), ethical hunting and culling of wildlife (which has zip to do with 2A which is very much about the civil use of arms and righteous killing of enemies foreign and domestic), cleaner cars, etc etc.
But all else being equal the US is nowhere near the pollution pit of Red China, Japan, or Russia.
I think we can harness technology to live with nature as opposed to against it. No I don’t think we should eat bugs or go Vegan.
Our worst problem is overpopulation. These other countries are defecating too many humans and are coming here. Usually disease and war would keep that in check but every dollar you donate to UNICEF pretty much empowers some denizen of a shithole to grow to maturity, breed, then blow himself up or die in tribal warfare.
Like not everywhere needs a strip mall or a project house. And I don’t mean rank elitism here.
Just preserving what we have and not over relying on these other places.
There’s a happy medium but nobody wants to go there. Just bitch about it.
We don’t call a spade a spade.
Ted Roosevelt understood it and would be considered a barbarian by today’s social metric
At some point I’d like a Solar Powered house if it is more cost effective, and I hear it is.
There’s options that don’t require us to be hippies or metrosexuals
It’s tricky.
Like. I’m not opposed to green measures, Solar Power, Nuclear Power(if properly maintained), ethical hunting and culling of wildlife (which has zip to do with 2A which is very much about the civil use of arms and righteous killing of enemies foreign and domestic), cleaner cars, etc etc.
But all else being equal the US is nowhere near the pollution pit of Red China, Japan, or Russia.
I think we can harness technology to live with nature as opposed to against it. No I don’t think we should eat bugs or go Vegan.
Our worst problem is overpopulation. These other countries are defecating too many humans and are coming here. Usually disease and war would keep that in check but every dollar you donate to UNICEF pretty much empowers some denizen of a shithole to grow to maturity, breed, then blow himself up or die in tribal warfare.
Like not everywhere needs a strip mall or a project house. And I don’t mean rank elitism here.
Just preserving what we have and not over relying on these other places.
There’s a happy medium but nobody wants to go there. Just bitch about it.
We don’t call a spade a spade.
Ted Roosevelt understood it and would be considered a barbarian by today’s social metric
At some point I’d like a Solar Powered house if it is more cost effective, and I hear it is.
There’s options that don’t require us to be hippies or metrosexuals
Solar power houses are part of the problem with the grid. Gov mandates that the power co’s buy excess power and there are less paying customers to maintain the distribution system. This has become a problem that no one wants to talk about then everyone shrieks when a rate hike happens. So when your Ga power bill jumps $50 a month next year, thank everyone who is “off the grid” but still tied in for back up and not paying for any maintainence. Now think of the impact those 1000 acre solar farms are having.
Solar power houses are part of the problem with the grid. Gov mandates that the power co’s buy excess power and there are less paying customers to maintain the distribution system. This has become a problem that no one wants to talk about then everyone shrieks when a rate hike happens. So when your Ga power bill jumps $50 a month next year, thank everyone who is “off the grid” but still tied in for back up and not paying for any maintainence.
I am trying to depend on GA Power as little as possible though.
Maybe Gov needs to stop mandating so GD much.
GA power cashes my checks but don’t swap spit with me in the shower.
Not trying to be punchy with you but oof
Lol. No worries bud. There’s just 2 sides to the coin, like any other situation. I didn’t mean for my response to seem like it was directly pointed at you.
Power companies having to buy your solar power at retail during non peak hours is a huge hidden subsidy. And not sustainable in the long run.
I really wish east coasters would not comment on things they know nothing about. One of those being forest succession in Western States. We have had 15,000 years of Indian burning our forests for hunting purposes each fall. We live in a sub-climax fores setting which is prone to rapidly spreading fires. "Controlled burns" or native burning for hunting desiccate the environment. Australia went from a seasonal monsoon forest to a desert because of Aboriginal burning practices. We were part way there in California. Leave nature alone.Ahhh, got it... Ignorant east coast flatlanders
Smokey da bear was right, those durn indians.
Son and daughter-in-law are wildlife biologists, both working for DNR. Both with time working as biologists for state and federal parks early in their career. Son worked for the forester for one of the largest contigious private forests in the east.
Even western USFS districts and similar have now admitted previous mgt policies were flat wrong. Fire is a natural part of forest mgt.
Decades of fire suppresion have created problems as well as actually harmed reproduction/growth cycles of the forests themselves.
If understory was not allowed to build for decades, the huge out of control fires are less likely. Not impossible, can't control the wind. But less fuel, faster recovery, etc. Many trees recover from fires without unnatural undergrowth/understory.
It's made worse by our tendency to put homes in the middle of the big woods.
The solar panel owners who are in shock, that their no battery system does not provide their home with electricity, is priceless.
Even better, the Tesla owners who cant pay $5.25 a gallon to fuel up.
We had a wildfire here in August that burned 50 homes started by a tree falling from outside the power line easement into the powerline. People were up in arms about it, the same people that were bitching that the power company was clearing trees from their easement two months prior.
Now they want to sue the power company, which is a co-op. So, if the power co-op loses, the same people that sued will be paying for the lawsuit they won (along with the rest of us). They very likely won't win since the tree came from outside the easement.
People are dumb.
The lawyers win.
The problem is Blue State California has their power cut. We in Red State California are used to this. But it is the power company's fault. They cost all of you non-Californians millions and millions of dollars fighting fires on federal lands and the government was too chicken-----t to go after them for the money. Instead, the company used federal courts and bankruptcy protection to evade their responsibilities. Now, they are tying to punish citizens of California for their problems. But there is a solution.
They are in bankruptcy and cannot move laterally so to speak---they cannot sell the company now. Now, the State Legislature should mandate installation of underground lines and forbid the company from passing the cost on to consumers. It is a cost of doing business in the eco-bio-climato-world of California. After they do this then mandate a breakup of the company.
Sigh....
Underground lines are just not feasible for much of the areas affected by the blackouts.
Sure, where I am in Wyoming, it's great! Not so much in much of the area you refer to.
It’s tricky.
Like. I’m not opposed to green measures, Solar Power, Nuclear Power(if properly maintained), ethical hunting and culling of wildlife (which has zip to do with 2A which is very much about the civil use of arms and righteous killing of enemies foreign and domestic), cleaner cars, etc etc.
But all else being equal the US is nowhere near the pollution pit of Red China, Japan, or Russia.
I think we can harness technology to live with nature as opposed to against it. No I don’t think we should eat bugs or go Vegan.
Our worst problem is overpopulation. These other countries are defecating too many humans and are coming here. Usually disease and war would keep that in check but every dollar you donate to UNICEF pretty much empowers some denizen of a shithole to grow to maturity, breed, then blow himself up or die in tribal warfare.
Like not everywhere needs a strip mall or a project house. And I don’t mean rank elitism here.
Just preserving what we have and not over relying on these other places.
There’s a happy medium but nobody wants to go there. Just bitch about it.
We don’t call a spade a spade.
Ted Roosevelt understood it and would be considered a barbarian by today’s social metric
At some point I’d like a Solar Powered house if it is more cost effective, and I hear it is.
There’s options that don’t require us to be hippies or metrosexuals
I love you man.
Not that kind of love... but you know what I mean.
Solar power houses are part of the problem with the grid. Gov mandates that the power co’s buy excess power and there are less paying customers to maintain the distribution system. This has become a problem that no one wants to talk about then everyone shrieks when a rate hike happens. So when your Ga power bill jumps $50 a month next year, thank everyone who is “off the grid” but still tied in for back up and not paying for any maintainence. Now think of the impact those 1000 acre solar farms are having.
Those with solar power in CA and still connected to the grid have to pay a monthly "connection fee" that covers that. It's about $10 a month currently.
Ahhh, got it... Ignorant east coast flatlanders
Smokey da bear was right, those durn indians.
Son and daughter-in-law are wildlife biologists, both working for DNR. Both with time working as biologists for state and federal parks early in their career. Son worked for the forester for one of the largest contigious private forests in the east.
Even western USFS districts and similar have now admitted previous mgt policies were flat wrong. Fire is a natural part of forest mgt.
Decades of fire suppresion have created problems as well as actually harmed reproduction/growth cycles of the forests themselves.
If understory was not allowed to build for decades, the huge out of control fires are less likely. Not impossible, can't control the wind. But less fuel, faster recovery, etc. Many trees recover from fires without unnatural undergrowth/understory.
It's made worse by our tendency to put homes in the middle of the big woods.
Truth.
Dr. Bullseye
10-10-19, 22:27
Ahhh, got it... Ignorant east coast flatlanders
Smokey da bear was right, those durn indians.
Son and daughter-in-law are wildlife biologists, both working for DNR. Both with time working as biologists for state and federal parks early in their career. Son worked for the forester for one of the largest contigious private forests in the east.
Even western USFS districts and similar have now admitted previous mgt policies were flat wrong. Fire is a natural part of forest mgt.
Decades of fire suppresion have created problems as well as actually harmed reproduction/growth cycles of the forests themselves.
If understory was not allowed to build for decades, the huge out of control fires are less likely. Not impossible, can't control the wind. But less fuel, faster recovery, etc. Many trees recover from fires without unnatural undergrowth/understory.
It's made worse by our tendency to put homes in the middle of the big woods.
Have them go to Australia and explain all this at Alice Springs. Fire 100%, always damages a forest. It is a natural produce of the USFS's plan to keep firefighters in a paycheck, that is it.
Tell your biologist relatives I live in a Sequoia forest. I have a Sequoia tree on my property which is over 200 ft. high and 52 feet in diameter. But I have about 17 smaller Sequoia trees which are anywhere from 100 ft. to six feet. There are may small Sequoia trees on neighboring properties of similar young age. We have had no fires here in at least 200 years. Yet according to the biologists of the USFS and the US Park Service, this is impossible. Sequoia trees, according to them, need chemical soil to germinate and fire to open the cones. None of these biologists have ever studied Indian hunting methods and when cross examined by me concerning their "theories", they just fall apart.
Forests do not happen by themselves. They are a product of a series of vegetative communities starting with the last fire. Ferns, small shrubs, grass, higher shrubs, first trees, second tier trees, and finally climax vegetation all appear over many years. Climax vegetation in a forest is damp. It is hard to burn. In California in October most soil is like digging in cement. But go down one foot at my house the soil is damp.
Tell your biologists the soil, vegetation and climate (yes climate) are all on a feedback loop. You can change rainfall by changing the vegetation but to change vegetation you have to change the soil. Now reverse this statement. A climax forest is humid and clouds form over the that area which reflects sunlight less. The roots of specific trees need specific bacteria in the soil for them to develop. Fire destroys every aspect of this feedback loop. If the forest is only slightly burnt, the duff is burn or the lower tier of shrubs are burnt, the forest is retarded in its development towards a climax forest. This seems to be the goal of forest management because most of them have never even seen a climax forest. All they have is pictures of forests 150 years old or so and compare them to modern forests. They say those depleted forests are the goal. But his is totally wrong. Those forests are still recovering from 15,000 years of Indian burning. It takes more time than the white man has been in North America for a forest to recover.
I hope it is clear that your biologists only have part of the picture.
HardToHandle
10-10-19, 23:32
The core issue in California is inverse condemnation legal theory, which applies only in California. While wildfires are comparably impactful elsewhere, the public policy environment in California is what has manufactured the crisis.
In the rest of the *world*, a wildfire started by power line is worked out on a sliding scale of culpability. In California, the entire liability is all hung around the neck of the utility serving the needs of the public (and is legally required to serve everyone) even if they went to heroic lengths to prevent the fire. That is why PG&E is broke - a $6bn company with $10bn of liability that can only exist in California.
Good summary - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-15/the-california-rule-that-doomed-pg-e-inverse-condemnation
Furthermore, the power shut offs are actually dictated by the state’s Public Utility Commission. The utilities are only implementing a consent degree the state government forced them to do. The state legislature and Governor were told this would happen over the last legislative session...but did nothing to forestall what was predicted.
You get the government you vote for... California is Exhibit #1 this week.
Listening to Marin County whine is... Cosmic justice.
Dr. Bullseye
10-10-19, 23:35
Sigh....
Underground lines are just not feasible for much of the areas affected by the blackouts.
Sure, where I am in Wyoming, it's great! Not so much in much of the area you refer to.
OK, I'll bite, why are they not feasible? I have them on my property.
OK, I'll bite, why are they not feasible? I have them on my property.
My lines are buried as well, from the power poles to my house. First one failed at 25 years, resulting in them replacing the line at no cost to me, but about $5000 worth of landscaping damage that I had to pay for. My local power company says to not expect more than 30 years from a buried line. Conversely, the power supply to my other house is above ground and was put in 45 years ago.
Anyhow, this spells it out far better than I can. https://www.power-grid.com/2013/02/01/underground-vs-overhead-power-line-installation-cost-comparison/#gref
How do you “leave nature alone” and have all of the conveniences of modern society?
That's the problem - folks build homes and developments where they set themselves up for these things.
In our local we have an area we call the sandhills, yucca plants (yep in, Kansas) native grass, etc. Prairie Dunes Golf Course (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prairie_Dunes_Country_Club) is located in this area. So, of course, all the doctors, lawyers and bankers build houses out there, and every fracking year we have fires, that threaten houses.
How hard is it to understand that if you live in an area like that you need to keep several hundred feet around your house somewhat manicured?
Big excuse? We want to see the animals, or, we want it natural.
Jeez.
A $10 meter fee is a joke and makes no actual contribution towards system maintenance.. I’d bet the $10 is to cover the wireless connection required for the smart meter.
Have them go to Australia and explain all this at Alice Springs. Fire 100%, always damages a forest. It is a natural produce of the USFS's plan to keep firefighters in a paycheck, that is it.
Tell your biologist relatives I live in a Sequoia forest.
Snip
We have had no fires here in at least 200 years. Yet according to the biologists of the USFS and the US Park Service, this is impossible. Sequoia trees, according to them, need chemical soil to germinate and fire to open the cones. None of these biologists have ever studied Indian hunting methods and when cross examined by me concerning their "theories", they just fall apart.
Snip
Forests do not happen by themselves. They are a product of a series of vegetative communities starting with the last fire. Ferns, small shrubs, grass, higher shrubs, first trees, second tier trees, and finally climax vegetation all appear over many years. Climax vegetation in a forest is damp. It is hard to burn. In California in October most soil is like digging in cement. But go down one foot at my house the soil is damp.
Snip
Tell your biologists the soil, vegetation and climate (yes climate) are all on a feedback loop. You can change rainfall by changing the vegetation but to change vegetation you have to change the soil.
Snip
This seems to be the goal of forest management because most of them have never even seen a climax forest. All they have is pictures of forests 150 years old or so and compare them to modern forests. They say those depleted forests are the goal. But his is totally wrong. Those forests are still recovering from 15,000 years of Indian burning. It takes more time than the white man has been in North America for a forest to recover.
I hope it is clear that your biologists only have part of the picture.
Ahh, sorry, did not realize you had a magic Gaiia forest. Yeah, those play by different rules...
The flaw in your theory is that fires started by lightning burn about the same number of acres as manmade fire of all type. Over 8000 lightning caused fires per year in just the US.
We also know that in areas of low human interaction, you still see about the same number of fires.
It's pretty clearly gated by conditions (weather and fuel). IE: fires will happen with or without man. We know this from the fossil record. Forest fires have existed as long as plants have. And if man interferes with it, there is adverse impact.
Nevermind the issues with unnaturally protected forests and species diversity... Muir woods is a silent temple for a reason.
I'm sorry the bad abo's burnt your Oz homeland, by the way. Funny how similar/same human migrations did not impact Tazmania and NZ the same way.
Sort of like building a home on a barrier island and then acting surprised when a hurricane washes it away.
Dr. Bullseye
10-11-19, 11:41
Ahh, sorry, did not realize you had a magic Gaiia forest. Yeah, those play by different rules...
The flaw in your theory is that fires started by lightning burn about the same number of acres as manmade fire of all type. Over 8000 lightning caused fires per year in just the US.
We also know that in areas of low human interaction, you still see about the same number of fires.
It's pretty clearly gated by conditions (weather and fuel). IE: fires will happen with or without man. We know this from the fossil record. Forest fires have existed as long as plants have. And if man interferes with it, there is adverse impact.
Nevermind the issues with unnaturally protected forests and species diversity... Muir woods is a silent temple for a reason.
I'm sorry the bad abo's burnt your Oz homeland, by the way. Funny how similar/same human migrations did not impact Tazmania and NZ the same way.
1. Lightning hit my big tree and has hit every big tree (Sequoia). Sometimes the tree is killed and looks like a forest fire did it a hundred years later but that is not true. Lightning never caused anything other than a less-than-an-acre fire here. It is just too damp for lightning to produce large scale fires. It is probably the same in most climax forests. The USFS does not even put them out here.
2. No, lightning does not start fires anywhere near as large or as frequent as do power companies. It is not even 5% in California. The USFS searches for data supporting their "fire" position with lightning. They cite studies done in the Pacific Northwest. This is not applicable to California. The Pacific Northwest hardly ever has lightning. Lightning is correlated positively with temperature and the earth's temperature can actually be measured counting lightning strikes. They do this using the Schumann Resonance which I can discuss if you are interested.
3. I live over the ridge from a wilderness area (I am surrounded by a National Monument where I am). They have "lightning fires" every Sept. and Oct. The USFS always calls them lightning fires in spite of the fact they are actually caused by hunters. We all laugh at this designation.
4. You are right. When man interferes with nature the outcome is never good.
5. I am an American. But as you see, I know forests, even foreign ones sometimes. NZ is a great example of pristine forests left alone. But Tasmania is a much better example. Did you know the Aboriginal inhabitants of Tasmania lost the ability to make fire? They had no fire when the European arrived. This climate is as cold as Southern England. The first whites found them huddled behind hedges in the winter in a miserable condition. They did not last long after contact. The last was named "King Billy" and was a minor celeb. in Tasmania. The forests of Tasmania are perhaps the best preserved in the world BECAUSE the natives could not burn them down.
Dr. Bullseye
10-11-19, 11:49
My lines are buried as well, from the power poles to my house. First one failed at 25 years, resulting in them replacing the line at no cost to me, but about $5000 worth of landscaping damage that I had to pay for. My local power company says to not expect more than 30 years from a buried line. Conversely, the power supply to my other house is above ground and was put in 45 years ago.
Anyhow, this spells it out far better than I can. https://www.power-grid.com/2013/02/01/underground-vs-overhead-power-line-installation-cost-comparison/#gref
That is interesting. I never heard of an electric line buried underground causing a fire. It is great they last 30 years. Our above ground lines do not get anything like that lifespan. In California the utility companies decided about 15 years ago not to service rural electric lines. Each year pine pollen covers everything. This pollen gets into the tiny spaces of the transformer connections. With the first rain this short circuits out causing an electric explosion. I have witnessed two of these. An exploding transformer in a forest causes a forest fire.
Of course this does not even count falling trees. They routinely cause fires too, in fact that is the issue with this power outage. They will not trim a pathway through the forest for these lines or can not legally. Please don't tell me this happens with your underground lines or I will have to concede the discussion.
Interesting op piece:
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/10/11/the-lights-went-out-in-california-that-was-the-plan-all-along/
Interesting op piece:
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/10/11/the-lights-went-out-in-california-that-was-the-plan-all-along/
Belmont31R
10-11-19, 13:27
San Francisco wants to buy the PG&E assets in the city. So after decades of stupid forest management laws and regulations which prevented a utility from adequately protecting long distance lines, which led to fires, gov'ts want to split PG&E up so they can own their own utilities.
PG&E is not a good company so there's blame with them, too, but the writing has been on the wall with the socialists in that state. They will use the power of the state to destroy a company so they can take over. Also keep in mind the state regulator mandated plans to mitigate fire risk, and those plans had to be approved by the state. Its not a coincidence that Edison also started cutting power. Its not PG&E flapping in the breeze all on their own. The state creates a lot of the problem, and then they turn around and blame the utility companies. Not the first time the left has used this tactic to take over portions of the economy. That was the core function of ObamaCare.
This is certainly one of the more interesting discussion threads.
[emoji1303]
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San Francisco wants to buy the PG&E assets in the city. So after decades of stupid forest management laws and regulations which prevented a utility from adequately protecting long distance lines, which led to fires, gov'ts want to split PG&E up so they can own their own utilities.
PG&E is not a good company so there's blame with them, too, but the writing has been on the wall with the socialists in that state. They will use the power of the state to destroy a company so they can take over. Also keep in mind the state regulator mandated plans to mitigate fire risk, and those plans had to be approved by the state. Its not a coincidence that Edison also started cutting power. Its not PG&E flapping in the breeze all on their own. The state creates a lot of the problem, and then they turn around and blame the utility companies. Not the first time the left has used this tactic to take over portions of the economy. That was the core function of ObamaCare.
Correct. This is the goal of the ComDems- over regulate an industry to the point it becomes nonfunctional and unprofitable and the government has to step in and take over. Watch the food industry - we are slowly heading that way, too.
Each year pine pollen covers everything. This pollen gets into the tiny spaces of the transformer connections. With the first rain this short circuits out causing an electric explosion. I have witnessed two of these. An exploding transformer in a forest causes a forest fire.
LMAO!
I’ve been doing line work over a decade. Pollen doesn’t cause a transformer to explode. Forests you may know, electrical distribution, you do not.
That is interesting. I never heard of an electric line buried underground causing a fire. It is great they last 30 years. Our above ground lines do not get anything like that lifespan. In California the utility companies decided about 15 years ago not to service rural electric lines. Each year pine pollen covers everything. This pollen gets into the tiny spaces of the transformer connections. With the first rain this short circuits out causing an electric explosion. I have witnessed two of these. An exploding transformer in a forest causes a forest fire.
Of course this does not even count falling trees. They routinely cause fires too, in fact that is the issue with this power outage. They will not trim a pathway through the forest for these lines or can not legally. Please don't tell me this happens with your underground lines or I will have to concede the discussion.
You slammed people on the East coast earlier, which is cool, I don't live in California so aside from what's in the media I keep my nose out of it. But those of us in the south east, we know pollen. Your assertion is absurd. If that really happened, we would have no electricity, ever from about early May until mid-June.
Interesting op piece:
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/10/11/the-lights-went-out-in-california-that-was-the-plan-all-along/
In the same vein, by the same guy: https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckdevore/2018/07/30/californias-devastating-fires-are-man-caused-but-not-in-the-way-they-tell-us/#7e8ee1f970af
Dr. Bullseye, from the article:
In the 1850s and 1860s, the typical Sierra landscape was of open fields of grass punctuated by isolated pine stands and a few scattered oak trees. The first branches on the pine trees started about 20 feet up—lower branches having been burned off by low-intensity grassfires. California’s Native American population had for years shaped this landscape with fire to encourage the grasslands and boost the game animal population.
As the Gold Rush remade modern California, timber was harvested and replanted. Fires were suppressed because they threatened homes as well as burned up a valuable resource. The landscape filled in with trees, but the trees were harvested every 30 to 50 years.
You slammed people on the East coast earlier, which is cool, I don't live in California so aside from what's in the media I keep my nose out of it. But those of us in the south east, we know pollen. Your assertion is absurd. If that really happened, we would have no electricity, ever from about early May until mid-June.
Quoted for truth. We can damn near shovel the stuff off the sidewalks in the time frame chuckman posted
Dr. Bullseye
10-11-19, 20:52
You slammed people on the East coast earlier, which is cool, I don't live in California so aside from what's in the media I keep my nose out of it. But those of us in the south east, we know pollen. Your assertion is absurd. If that really happened, we would have no electricity, ever from about early May until mid-June.
I don't know what to tell you two but I have lived in the forest for 30 years and I have personally seen two transformers blow up. If I have just been looking in the right direction twice just imagine how many have exploded around here. The pollen does get into the connections and causes the explosion when wet. This is what I was told by the electric company in response to my conversation that they put the lines underground instead of not servicing their equipment. Underground, they would not have to service them.
Transformers can “explode”, or rupture and the oil burn, from high voltage spikes, the oil leaking out and the xformer loses its internal insulation, or some other fault when the fuse doesn’t blow or it isn’t fused at all. Pollen doesn’t ignite on a connection in the rain, then burn hot enough to heat a transformer to the point of rupturing. Secondary connections are brushed to clean them then there is a dielectric grease applied to the connection before its bonded. Most distribution connectors already have it in them. Bonds are bolted or crimped.
Unless the power co ran a riser and installed an underground xformer, your secondary connections are still exposed. If they set a pad mount, your secondary connections will be covered in ant beds, spider webs, and snake sheds. Don’t worry, this will not start a fire either.
You can look at several different style of connectors here.
https://www.eaton.com/us/en-us/catalog/medium-voltage-power-distribution-control-systems/connectors.html
UG services are fine but have their own problems. Unless it’s in conduit, your yard has to be dug up to repair or replace it. If the insulation was damaged on installation, or a tree root grows through it, you will have a fault resulting in partial power, no power, or you’ll lose your neutral and burn up all of your appliances, electronics, ac, hot water heater, etc. If your house isn’t up to spec, your earth ground will not be sufficient in the case of a bad neutral.
We could keep going but what’s the point?
Transformers can “explode”, or rupture and the oil burn, from high voltage spikes, the oil leaking out and the xformer loses its internal insulation, or some other fault when the fuse doesn’t blow or it isn’t fused at all. Pollen doesn’t ignite on a connection in the rain, then burn hot enough to heat a transformer to the point of rupturing. Secondary connections are brushed to clean them then there is a dielectric grease applied to the connection before its bonded. Most distribution connectors already have it in them. Bonds are bolted or crimped.
Unless the power co ran a riser and installed an underground xformer, your secondary connections are still exposed. If they set a pad mount, your secondary connections will be covered in ant beds, spider webs, and snake sheds. Don’t worry, this will not start a fire either.
You can look at several different style of connectors here.
https://www.eaton.com/us/en-us/catalog/medium-voltage-power-distribution-control-systems/connectors.html
See, this is probably the line of work I should have went in to.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
See, this is probably the line of work I should have went in to.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It pays the bills. Lowest journeyman rates are in the south and it’s still in the $37-40 per hour. There are linemen that literally cannot write their own names making $125k+ per year.
Belmont31R
10-11-19, 22:34
It pays the bills. Lowest journeyman rates are in the south and it’s still in the $37-40 per hour. There are linemen that literally cannot write their own names making $125k+ per year.
Im always confused by these types of posts. If that were actually true people would be flocking from all over the country there. $40/hour in a low tax state is amazing money but guaranteed your basic 'lineman' isn't making even half that. They might get $40/hr on double OT working 16 hours a day during disaster recovery. Masters charge nurses and engineers don't get paid that lol
It’s hard work and that keeps most away. Believe what you want.
Coal Dragger
10-11-19, 23:08
Im always confused by these types of posts. If that were actually true people would be flocking from all over the country there. $40/hour in a low tax state is amazing money but guaranteed your basic 'lineman' isn't making even half that. They might get $40/hr on double OT working 16 hours a day during disaster recovery. Masters charge nurses and engineers don't get paid that lol
Well those folks don’t work on call 24/7, in a hazardous environment performing physical labor where mistakes will get you killed closed casket funeral style.
59091
Prove your credentials and I’ll get you a job as a contractor on an EMC’s circuit.
Currently linemen are quitting Ga Power with 19+ years in to go to California and a few other states as contractors in the $60-70 per hr range.
Belmont31R
10-11-19, 23:44
Well those folks don’t work on call 24/7, in a hazardous environment performing physical labor where mistakes will get you killed closed casket funeral style.
I took the liberty of looking up lineman pay and the average is around 50k. More like 35-45K in non union/high cost of living states. On the lower end for new hires who have the experience to get hired on and make it through probation.
Theres alway a few crazy contractor rates out there but they are not the standard for any given industry. You might make contractor rates for 2-6 months then be out of work for 3-6 months, and you have to pay your own taxes with no benefits. Where I work pay is low for the industry but they've never laid off anyone and we have 'golden' insurance and benefits that equal out to tens of thousands contractors don't get. Its all about how you want to work. Lots of money right now but you risk playing that game. Most employers use contract as a last resort because the types that enjoy the boom/bust cycle are mostly shitheads that can work for a few months, quit, and then use the money on benders until they need to go back to work.
Theres always some huge caveat in these jobs otherwise you'd have 300:1 applicant ratios and the trailer hordes descending on you.
See, this is probably the line of work I should have went in to.
My grandson is doing his apprenticeship now. I tried to talk him out of it, all he said was '$30.00 an hour to start' all I said was 'more dangerous than being a cop.'
Im always confused by these types of posts. If that were actually true people would be flocking from all over the country there. $40/hour in a low tax state is amazing money but guaranteed your basic 'lineman' isn't making even half that. They might get $40/hr on double OT working 16 hours a day during disaster recovery. Masters charge nurses and engineers don't get paid that lol
Do you know any journeyman linemen?
Charge nurses and engineers also don't get electrocuted as a general rule.
I took the liberty of looking up lineman pay and the average is around 50k. More like 35-45K in non union/high cost of living states. On the lower end for new hires who have the experience to get hired on and make it through probation.
Theres alway a few crazy contractor rates out there but they are not the standard for any given industry. You might make contractor rates for 2-6 months then be out of work for 3-6 months, and you have to pay your own taxes with no benefits. Where I work pay is low for the industry but they've never laid off anyone and we have 'golden' insurance and benefits that equal out to tens of thousands contractors don't get. Its all about how you want to work. Lots of money right now but you risk playing that game. Most employers use contract as a last resort because the types that enjoy the boom/bust cycle are mostly shitheads that can work for a few months, quit, and then use the money on benders until they need to go back to work.
Theres always some huge caveat in these jobs otherwise you'd have 300:1 applicant ratios and the trailer hordes descending on you.
In most cases you don't just walk into the office of some company and say 'hey, I want to be a lineman.'
My grandson went to a Junior College program for two years, did an internship as part of the degree program, and got a job as an apprentice with the city he did his apprenticeship with. He is going to be an apprentice for a while before he becomes a journeyman lineman.
Some companies train their own and mentor them through the apprenticeship.
Regardless the jobs are competitive, and meth heads generally aren't going to make the cut.
One of my neighbors was a lineman supervisor, he retired right after his son, also a lineman, got one of those closed casket funerals Coal Dragger mentioned. We never talked salary, the fact that his wife didn't work, they were horse people, plus the fifth wheel, the jet skis, his wife's Lexus, and his Diesel Ram made me think he was doing okay.
HardToHandle
10-12-19, 04:56
I call BS on the doubters. My experience is from literally earlier in the day today and involves staffing across 25 states.
Journeyman linemen (and women) are pulling $100k these days - nationwide. Generally without OT and disaster work.
There may be some low voltage jobs in municipalities, Army Corps or odd Cooperatives that are not trained to journeyman specifications that are under $40/hr, but that is few and far between. Think the difference between a Medical Doctor and a Doctor of Chiropractic - the Title has been appropriated similar to “sanitation engineers”.
No qualified journeyman willing to travel is without six figure work and many are over $200k. The signing bonuses in the last Atlantic hurricanes and with PG&E were exceeding $6k - and folks will jump ship for two months, collect the bonus and then go back to the previous employer. Economic times are generally good - and the hard, dangerous jobs are being compensated appropriately.
I took the liberty of looking up lineman pay and the average is around 50k. More like 35-45K in non union/high cost of living states. On the lower end for new hires who have the experience to get hired on and make it through probation.
Theres alway a few crazy contractor rates out there but they are not the standard for any given industry. You might make contractor rates for 2-6 months then be out of work for 3-6 months, and you have to pay your own taxes with no benefits. Where I work pay is low for the industry but they've never laid off anyone and we have 'golden' insurance and benefits that equal out to tens of thousands contractors don't get. Its all about how you want to work. Lots of money right now but you risk playing that game. Most employers use contract as a last resort because the types that enjoy the boom/bust cycle are mostly shitheads that can work for a few months, quit, and then use the money on benders until they need to go back to work.
Theres always some huge caveat in these jobs otherwise you'd have 300:1 applicant ratios and the trailer hordes descending on you.
The caveat is that it’s hard, dangerous work that takes 5-7 years to top out on the pay scale. The rates are no bullshit. Call any of the larger contractors and ask what a Class A is making. I work for one of the biggest electrical contractors in the US and have hired my share of linemen. The door is always open to linemen at Pike, ULCS, Service Electric, Mastec, etc.
You can walk in the door with no experience, ask to apply for a groundmans job on an overhead distribution crew, put in your time, work, learn, and you’ll make Class A in 5-7 years.
It doesn’t have to be an overhead crew either. Underground distribution and directional drilling pay scale is catching up with the oh guys.
First of all, leave nurses out of it. We have our own problems.
It sounds analogous to elevator repairman. Only reason I bring that up, is my good friend is one. Five-year apprenticeship, they start out at about $50k in the apprenticeship. When they graduate they're making $100k+. Not the easiest job in the world, but a very secure job, and he always seems to have plenty of time off. But when he is on call, he is gone the entire time.
I don't know what to tell you two but I have lived in the forest for 30 years and I have personally seen two transformers blow up. If I have just been looking in the right direction twice just imagine how many have exploded around here. The pollen does get into the connections and causes the explosion when wet. This is what I was told by the electric company in response to my conversation that they put the lines underground instead of not servicing their equipment. Underground, they would not have to service them.
I absolutely believe you have seen transformers explode. But the reason the electric company gave you, I throw the BS flag. I think they fed you a line. Similarly, this week my water went out. In North Carolina we've had a pretty good drought for a while. I called the well pump people, they come out and say "the water table is low, you need to turn off your pump and let it regenerate." I am like, no, it's a problem with the pump or the electrical. Not a water supply issue. But I humor them, wait 24 hours. No water. I called them back, and it's a well pump gone bad.
I think the electric people said something to humor you because they didn't either understand what was going on or too lazy to be truthful, just like the well pump people.
I think the electric people said something to humor you because they didn't either understand what was going on or too lazy to be truthful, just like the well pump people.
I believe he has already established that biology and physics work differently where he lives, so you never know.
Transformers explode due to immediate and significant overcurrent. Shorted lines on powerup, etc. I could see line slap maybe being an issue, but it would have to be on the load side of transformers. (IE, not HV lines). Very common after hurricanes when they are trying to re-establish power.
Debris in electrical connections (pollen) increases resistance, which decreaees current. Mr Ohm is pretty stubborn that way. You get heating but not explosions. And is a major inefficiency companies would want to avoid, thus the weatherproof connections, silicon grease, etc. Even just natural oxidation and that from dissimilar metals.
Pollen on HV insulators can enable arcing, it's a major source of electrical noise in the southeast when we have long periods without rain. Arcing is not explosions.
monkeywrench
10-12-19, 11:54
Also to add to the pollen on the transformer will make it explode. The transformer is fuse protected. If there is a problem it will open up.
Good thread.
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I have lived in the south 51 years. I have never, ever seen transformers explode from pollen. I'll run it by my brother-in-law this afternoon; he's an electrical engineer with Duke Power.
I'm certainly not saying it can't happen, just saying it doesn't happen.
This is what happens when you vote for naive people to lead your government, Now CA is going to the dark ages again. i bet candle makers will make a lot of money now.
I ask my brother-in-law tonight, and the look he gave me was priceless.
He said theoretically, if the transformer is poorly made and not insulated in the right places it could happen, but it should never happen from pollen. He said to his knowledge Duke Power never had a transformer have issues from pollen. His comment: "dude, this is the South".
This is what happens when you vote for naive people to lead your government, Now CA is going to the dark ages again. i bet candle makers will make a lot of money now.
How ironic the number of gasoline and diesel generators that will be running so inefficiently emissions-wise to replace a fraction of the centralized power generators output taken offline. In the CARB state no less. And the millions of candles and kerosene or gas lanterns. Or, turn the power on and have forest fires spewing smoke that makes another mockery of CA low emissions laws.
I remember back in the late-1990s-2000s CA had rolling brown outs. So bad that many high tech firms quit investing further campus development in CA and started moving more expansion to NV, AZ, OR, CO, and TX. We may see another round of business relocations if workers are frequently put in the dark and their swimming pools go unheated and Prius and Teslas uncharged.
How ironic the number of gasoline and diesel generators that will be running.....
And backfeeding which will in turn re-energize distribution circuits with primary voltage unless hooked up correctly. Lol
Belmont31R
10-13-19, 00:13
The caveat is that it’s hard, dangerous work that takes 5-7 years to top out on the pay scale. The rates are no bullshit. Call any of the larger contractors and ask what a Class A is making. I work for one of the biggest electrical contractors in the US and have hired my share of linemen. The door is always open to linemen at Pike, ULCS, Service Electric, Mastec, etc.
You can walk in the door with no experience, ask to apply for a groundmans job on an overhead distribution crew, put in your time, work, learn, and you’ll make Class A in 5-7 years.
It doesn’t have to be an overhead crew either. Underground distribution and directional drilling pay scale is catching up with the oh guys.
I have no doubt pay scales top out at hefty rates my response was more towards the 'we can't hire newbs' when people are throwing around the more high end pay scales.
As for nurses not get electrocuted yup that's a plus but an HIV bleeder in an ER will be hundreds of thousands in testing, and ER intake nurses deserve every dollar they get.
monkeywrench
10-13-19, 06:35
And backfeeding which will in turn re-energize distribution circuits with primary voltage unless hooked up correctly. Lol
If generators are connected to the distribution system it has to have a disconnect on it. Also when the line crews work on denergized lines they will ground it. The saying is "if not grounded it is not dead."
There are safety precautions that are took in repairing lines.
If generators are connected to the distribution system it has to have a disconnect on it. Also when the line crews work on denergized lines they will ground it. The saying is "if not grounded it is not dead."
There are safety precautions that are took in repairing lines.
Like JSP said "connected incorrectly". People make double ended power cables - plug one end into the generator and the other end into a wall socket. Walla - instant power to the house.
Probably not a terrible idea IF you disconnect the mains (trip primary CB).
Andy
If generators are connected to the distribution system it has to have a disconnect on it. Also when the line crews work on denergized lines they will ground it. The saying is "if not grounded it is not dead."
There are safety precautions that are took in repairing lines.
My point was that lines would be energized anyway when the power was cut to prevent fires. I’m well aware of grounding procedures. If you think every generator used to power a home during an outage has a disconnect, you’re mistaken.
monkeywrench
10-13-19, 11:21
My point was that lines would be energized anyway when the power was cut to prevent fires. I’m well aware of grounding procedures. If you think every generator used to power a home during an outage has a disconnect, you’re mistaken.
That was not my point. I am very aware that idiots connect their generators to their homes without the disconnects installed. My point was that the line crew will isolate or insulate the line that they are working on. The line crews will ground the system because of this.
https://youtu.be/7m1xcX_X0wc
There's another big thread in here with info.
But here's a youtube of a commercial pilot with an aviation-related channel who happens to live in an area of CA and describes what's going on.
Commiefornia at its logical conclusion.
My company's lineman make 100k+ easy. They put in the work for it, storm restoration, etc. I'm a NERC certified system operator but I left our control center almost a year ago but still maintain my certification. No way I'd go out west, but they are paying good money for system operators, electricians and lineman.
My almost 10yrs working in the control center taught me 3 things; don't plant a tree, never buy mylar balloons and bird crap causes all kinds of problems when it rains...lol
https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-11/scientists-tracing-ancient-aboriginal-fire-practice-on-tasmania/8891626
A core sample taken from a remote Tasmanian island suggests Aboriginal people were using fire management on the island at least 41,000 years ago, experts have said.
1. Lightning hit my big tree and has hit every big tree (Sequoia). Sometimes the tree is killed and looks like a forest fire did it a hundred years later but that is not true. Lightning never caused anything other than a less-than-an-acre fire here. It is just too damp for lightning to produce large scale fires. It is probably the same in most climax forests. The USFS does not even put them out here.
2. No, lightning does not start fires anywhere near as large or as frequent as do power companies. It is not even 5% in California. The USFS searches for data supporting their "fire" position with lightning. They cite studies done in the Pacific Northwest. This is not applicable to California. The Pacific Northwest hardly ever has lightning. Lightning is correlated positively with temperature and the earth's temperature can actually be measured counting lightning strikes. They do this using the Schumann Resonance which I can discuss if you are interested.
3. I live over the ridge from a wilderness area (I am surrounded by a National Monument where I am). They have "lightning fires" every Sept. and Oct. The USFS always calls them lightning fires in spite of the fact they are actually caused by hunters. We all laugh at this designation.
4. You are right. When man interferes with nature the outcome is never good.
5. I am an American. But as you see, I know forests, even foreign ones sometimes. NZ is a great example of pristine forests left alone. But Tasmania is a much better example. Did you know the Aboriginal inhabitants of Tasmania lost the ability to make fire? They had no fire when the European arrived. This climate is as cold as Southern England. The first whites found them huddled behind hedges in the winter in a miserable condition. They did not last long after contact. The last was named "King Billy" and was a minor celeb. in Tasmania. The forests of Tasmania are perhaps the best preserved in the world BECAUSE the natives could not burn them down.
That was not my point. I am very aware that idiots connect their generators to their homes without the disconnects installed. My point was that the line crew will isolate or insulate the line that they are working on. The line crews will ground the system because of this.
I’m not trying to be argumentative but when did PG&E state that they were deenergizing lines for repair?
monkeywrench
10-14-19, 17:40
https://www.google.com/amp/s/abc7news.com/amp/society/pg-e-explains-why-turning-power-back-on-could-take-5-days/5606070/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sfchronicle.com/business/amp/Why-PG-E-s-mass-California-power-shutoff-could-14502133.php
Ok. So they’re checking lines to make sure they’re safe to heat up. Power was cut for? That’s right, to prevent fires. Lol
Don't laugh too loudly. Red state texas has its share of rolling blackouts too.
Don't laugh too loudly. Red state texas has its share of rolling blackouts too.
Really, source please.
"Texas' secessionist inclinations do have one modern outlet: the electric grid. There are three grids in the Lower 48 states: the Eastern Interconnection, the Western Interconnection — and Texas.
The Texas grid is called ERCOT, and it is run by an agency of the same name — the Electric Reliability Council of Texas. ERCOT does not actually cover all of Texas. El Paso is on another grid, as is the upper Panhandle and a chunk of East Texas."
I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again.
MOVE
Coal Dragger
10-19-19, 20:47
I’d prefer most of them stay in place and freeze in the dark to be honest.
Belmont31R
10-19-19, 20:50
I’d prefer most of them stay in place and freeze in the dark to be honest.
Seriously. Cali transplants will mostly just vote D and turn former red states blue until the whole country is ****ed, and Cali politics become the new norm outside of a few red pockets. Idiots can't see the correlation between who they vote for and what made them leave in the first place.
Seriously. Cali transplants will mostly just vote D and turn former red states blue until the whole country is ****ed, and Cali politics become the new norm outside of a few red pockets. Idiots can't see the correlation between who they vote for and what made them leave in the first place.
Pretty much what is wrong with Florida now... Too many snow birds that should have stayed in the north.
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