View Full Version : Advice on what to look for when selecting a German Shepherd
1_click_off
10-12-19, 15:51
Any advice on what to look for breeder or breed wise? I have been looking at getting either a German or Dutch Shepherd for a few years. My old buddy passed on. Thinking it is time for another 4 legged buddy.
Heard that some shepherds have hip issues. Want to avoid that or any other unknown.
I have plenty of land to roam on, but house is adjacent to a somewhat busy road. Got a couple younger kids and plan to have her inside the house for the most part. Just too dang hot outside.
I like the protective aspect of the breed and we don’t have a lot of visitors. Golden Retrievers are great dogs, but I want something that won’t lick an intruder.
Basically looking for the tips on what to watch out for or avoid with the breed.
Any advice on what to look for breeder or breed wise? I have been looking at getting either a German or Dutch Shepherd for a few years. My old buddy passed on. Thinking it is time for another 4 legged buddy.
Heard that some shepherds have hip issues. Want to avoid that or any other unknown.
I have plenty of land to roam on, but house is adjacent to a somewhat busy road. Got a couple younger kids and plan to have her inside the house for the most part. Just too dang hot outside.
I like the protective aspect of the breed and we don’t have a lot of visitors. Golden Retrievers are great dogs, but I want something that won’t lick an intruder.
Basically looking for the tips on what to watch out for or avoid with the breed.
I think member Bulletdog is who you should reach out to. He is a trainer of high end GSDs
The more "ultra pure bred" the more likely you will have a dog with hip issues. This is one instance where pedestrian is sometimes better than pedigree.
Obviously avoid the puppy mills where dogs might be in poor health or subjected to conditions that result in problems. Temperament is probably the most important. If the dog won't come to you when you visit, it might have been abused which takes a lot of commitment and effort to overcome or it just might have a poor disposition and could be reclusive / aggressive both of which have their own challenges.
If you can, try and find a rescue or shelter dog. Nothing feels better than literally saving a dogs life. I would look for good overall health first, then temperament / disposition and my last consideration would be papers / champion parents or whatever.
Make sure you are ready for a Dutch/Belgian.... absolutely super dogs, but can be a bridge too far for some owners....
Be happy to point you towards some breeders if needed. Good luck with your purchase👍🏻
Coal Dragger
10-12-19, 17:11
On the health issues look for a breeder that is breeding specifically for good joint health. That means the dog and bitch will both be at least 2 years old with certified hip and elbow x-rays, usually a breeder will note that their breeding animals have this. Figure a few generations of dogs with good joint health stacks the deck in your favor for a healthy pup.
Obviously you want to meet the puppy’s parents, if you have kids take your kids and see how the adult dogs are around them. Also how each pup is around your kids will be important.
On the protective nature, you need to decide if you want a working line dog or not. If you do prepare to devote time to training and keeping the dog occupied.
We currently have an adult female that is coming up on 8 years old. She’s small at only 60lbs but she is also healthy and very mobile. She loves our 2 year old son, but can be aloof at times with him.
Our 9 month old Rottweiler puppy on the other hand is bonkers about our little boy, in fact he followed our son around at the kennel and we selected him because of it. Those two are thick as thieves, and the Rottweiler has twice so far put himself between the boy and a potential threat (at least in the dog’s mind). My mom and my mother in law both, just playing and the toddler made toddler noises. Each time the Rottweiler put himself between them and the boy, no growling or teeth barred, no barking, just an already big black brick of a dog seeing what’s going on with his favorite person. He didn’t know the grandparents well at the time, but by the end of the week he was trying to be a lap dog with them too.
Our GSD female is also protective, but not nearly as proactive, she’s always super alert but less likely to physically make herself a barrier. She’s more likely to vocalize.
BTW, solid breeders can back up their dogs hips (OFA)
1_click_off
10-12-19, 17:29
If you can, try and find a rescue or shelter dog. Nothing feels better than literally saving a dogs life.
Had a very abused dog show up at the house one day. Would not come to me but looked like she felt she had nowhere else to go. So I started feeding her. She eventually warmed up and it took about a year before I could pet her without a wince/flench. Started acting like I was coming in for a smack and then started telling her she was a good dog and petting her nice. That helped a lot.
The next dog was from a farmer on the roadside. Best dog I ever had. The mom was half husky half wolf, dad was Australian Shepherd. I picked the only one with brown eyes and without the mane. That was the best dog ever. Smart, tough and acted like a 2 year old dog even though he was 14. One day he just started stroking out and had to put him down. No joint issues, teeth were great, he was deaf though. Took us all in total shock he was great up until that day.
This is the first dog I have been seeking out to purchase.
1_click_off
10-12-19, 17:32
Make sure you are ready for a Dutch/Belgian.... absolutely super dogs, but can be a bridge too far for some owners....
Be happy to point you towards some breeders if needed. Good luck with your purchase👍🏻
If the German is a few notches down on activity from the Dutch, I may lean that way. It will be a family dog and not worked hard. I think I will have a lot of chewed up stuff out of boredom if I go Dutch and that’s not fair to it.
1_click_off
10-12-19, 17:42
with certified hip and elbow x-rays
Never would have thought to look for that. Sounds expensive.
Do we start getting into the batch testing or every single one tested? Just joking.
I've got a belgian malinois / shepherd mix, I got mine from Camelot K9 in Tennessee. They have great stock and host at least 1 PSA trial a year.
We competed in PSA a couple of times but we haven't trained in about 2 years. My boy is the smartest dog I've ever had and loved training but sadly other time commitments took me from training every week so he's turned into a lap dog. Having a working dog is a commitment, you have to keep them busy, even though I don't do bite work anymore I still keep him learning new tricks. And I make sure I socialize him a lot.
Solid call, a good GSD is a great family addition.
The more "ultra pure bred" the more likely you will have a dog with hip issues. This is one instance where pedestrian is sometimes better than pedigree.
Obviously avoid the puppy mills where dogs might be in poor health or subjected to conditions that result in problems. Temperament is probably the most important. If the dog won't come to you when you visit, it might have been abused which takes a lot of commitment and effort to overcome or it just might have a poor disposition and could be reclusive / aggressive both of which have their own challenges.
If you can, try and find a rescue or shelter dog. Nothing feels better than literally saving a dogs life. I would look for good overall health first, then temperament / disposition and my last consideration would be papers / champion parents or whatever.
With regard to hip issues, it depends on the pedigree, not that it's purebred. The right pedigree will have a horizontal back, not sloped back. The sloped back can be purebred at but those will have the hip issues.
I got mine from a friend who raises them for search and rescue and law enforcement work. He's a great dog. The secret is getting one from a reputable breeder.
1_click_off
10-12-19, 18:28
So what is average $ for one. Not looking for perfect markings or turn nose up papers. Just want a great dog. I was sort of budgeting 1-2k pending breeder reputation. Am I in the ballpark with this budget, or will I have some sticker shock when I go looking.
4 years ago pups were around $1,500 in my area, not sure what they are now. But I've seen crazy prices all the way up to 10k depending on age and training. I was offered 6k for mine at the 2yr mark. I bought him for 1,500 or 2k, don't remember which but at that point he was turning heads. I had at least that much in gear and my time training, besides that he was part of the family already. No way I was letting him go. And at this point my wife would sell me first...lol
There's board and train places around that are between 2k and 4k locally so it's easy to have major money tied up in one. But a trained dog is worth it, I keep a short tab leash on when I'm out in public and just leave it hanging down. He stays right on my leg walking around Lowe's/Home Depot and I only reach for him when we get to the car so I can remove his collar before telling him to jump in.
So what is average $ for one. Not looking for perfect markings or turn nose up papers. Just want a great dog. I was sort of budgeting 1-2k pending breeder reputation. Am I in the ballpark with this budget, or will I have some sticker shock when I go looking.
That budget is good for a pup, a started dog just goes up from there. If your on a tight budget, find a solid breeder and develop a relationship....it’s a two way street and will pay off in the long run.
If you are not looking for a high-drive working dog, one thing to be aware of is that as far as I know, most shepherds with temperaments more suited to being family pets have the aforementioned sloping topline. So far there don't seem to be many people breeding more easygoing "pet" shepherds with the horizontal backs.
The "sloped" dogs can be perfectly healthy if you get them through a reputable breeder however their stance and gait is weird and unnatural due to their angulation (a lot of these dogs virtually walk on their hocks), and personally I think it looks terrible and have never understood why it is considered appealing by the breeders of "show-line" shepherds. Just one of many examples of the stupid shit we've done to purebred dogs in the name of aesthetics.
1_click_off
10-12-19, 19:00
I really enjoyed training the last pup. I had him to where he would walk next to me and did all kinds of tricks. I started walking him on a leash and when I was about to stop I would drag a foot, stop and tell him to sit. I had him to where he would walk with no leash and I could drag the foot and he would sit without telling him. If I told him to load up, he was looking for an open door. I remember one time I told him load up and my truck doors were closed (forgot) and I had a bed cover. He came back looked at me like you didn’t do your job and open the door. So I told him load up again and he took off. I heard a horrible noise of claws on a body panel. That joker jumped on the hood and slid up to the windshield just looking at me like “let’s roll”. Goofball.
It would be nice to have a started dog, but I just don’t want to forfeit that 2 years of enjoyment.
1_click_off
10-12-19, 19:02
If you are not looking for a high-drive working dog, one thing to be aware of is that as far as I know, most shepherds with temperaments more suited to being family pets have the aforementioned sloping topline. So far there don't seem to be many people breeding more easygoing "pet" shepherds with the horizontal backs.
The "sloped" dogs can be perfectly healthy if you get them through a reputable breeder however their stance and gait is weird and unnatural due to their angulation (a lot of these dogs virtually walk on their hocks), and personally I think it looks terrible and have never understood why it is considered appealing by the breeders of "show-line" shepherds. Just one of many examples of the stupid shit we've done to purebred dogs in the name of aesthetics.
I always thought the same when I saw them walk as well.
1_click_off
10-12-19, 19:28
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3uhJfdFuC2I
After watching this, might need to find a trainer to put a little boost in the protection side.
I've been training real protection dogs since the early 90s. Sport dogs too, and obedience, and puppy training, and problem solving, dog aggression, people aggression, etc... I'm the guy that gets called when other trainers and vets tell people to put their dog to sleep because its "incorrigible". I'm a 5 time National Champion in PSA, and had the 5th dog to ever earn a PSA 3 title back when a PSA 3 was near impossible to get. (Its much easier now, or so I'm told...)
I mention these things so you'll understand the "color" of my opinions to be stated here.
Back in the 70s and 80s GSDs were amazing dogs. Well built with super intelligence and willingness. Stupid Americans breeding for all the wrong reason ruined them. 95% of them are dysplastic to some degree and weird temperament issues are the norm now. I wouldn't take one for free and I wouldn't recommend one to anyone anymore. They simply aren't what they used to be. If your heart is set on a GSD, then look into the one from the Czech Republic. "Czech shepards". These tend to have sound bodies and minds, more so than "regular" shepards. The problem is that they are also hard core serious dogs that need a lot of time and bite work put into them. Don't get one if competition bite work isn't going to be your new hobby that you engage in for several hours 3-4 times a week. Not suitable as "pets".
Much the same for a Dutch. Not a pet dog. These are the hardest of hard dogs. Gladiators. Happy to fight all the decoys, the judge, the trial steward, AND the handler to the death to stay on a bite. This is the wrong dog for 99.9% of professional trainers. Totally unsuitable as a pet in a home. Many of the ones I've worked with reached maturity and went right back up the leash and put the person who raised them in the hospital. And that was with lots of help and guidance from a whole club of people that know what they are doing. These dogs are no joke. Here is one problem with the "Dutch Shepard". There are many trainers and breeders who for some odd reason think that dutchies and mals are two different colors of the same breed. They aren't. Not even close. But for years many people have been cross breeding them and now its a big muddled mess. A Mal pup has to be built up and made into a courageous dog. A dutch pup has to be toned down enough to be controllable. Mals retain a good amount of "handler sensitivity", while some dutchies demonstrate little or no handler sensitivity when they are in drive. These are generalities, and exceptions abound, especially when you get into lines that have been mixed.
Golden retrievers: Not kidding here. My worst aggression cases have been Goldens. Neutered goldens. See more and more aggressive labs every year too. Americans in general are bad at breeding dogs. We ruin all the good ones. Golden retrievers are not the family dogs that most people seem to think they are.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't sound like you (OP) want to start a new hobby. Sounds like you want a nice family dog with some protective instincts that won't require 9-12 hours of training a week. No dog is going to bite bad guys without a substantial amount of training and constant upkeep on that training. Some dog breeds, like the dutch, are much more likely to bite you or your family without substantial training, upkeep and correct handling. Don't get a race car if you aren't a race car driver that intends to race. Here are a few breeds that with minimal training usually turn out to be good family dogs, and have some protectiveness to them with out going overboard in a normal household. Standard poodle, Great Dane, bullmastiff, Rhodesian ridgeback, real pit bulls, Australian shepards. Every trainer you talk to will likely have their own list, and differing opinions on all of this. These breeds are my hobby, my passion and my career. I don't know everything, but I've learned a few things along the way. Your questions are welcome. I'm happy to share what I've learned over the years. I'd post pics, but tinypic.com shut down and I don't know how to post them from any other site without having to sign up and make an account.
1_click_off
10-12-19, 20:47
Sounds like you want a nice family dog with some protective instincts that won't require 9-12 hours of training a week. No dog is going to bite bad guys without a substantial amount of training and constant upkeep on that training. Some dog breeds, like the dutch, are much more likely to bite you or your family without substantial training, upkeep and correct handling. Don't get a race car if you aren't a race car driver that intends to race. Here are a few breeds that with minimal training usually turn out to be good family dogs, and have some protectiveness to them with out going overboard in a normal household. Standard poodle, Great Dane, bullmastiff, Rhodesian ridgeback, real pit bulls, Australian shepards.
Thank you for sharing. I appreciate you willing to extend the knowledge.
60hrs is a light week of work, add a couple kids in there and the 9-12 hours to maintain the race car is gone and priority of funds aren’t to hire a pit crew such as yourself so I can just drive.
Of your list of breeds, I think I would pick Australian Shepherd simply because the others seem a bit large for in the house. The Pit may not be, but we all know the stigmata and perceptions of that breed and I am just going to side step that one.
I think Australian Shepherd is the portion of my last mut I enjoyed the most.
Buddy had 2 but they had all kinds of allergies and skin issues.
What are your thoughts on the Sheepoodle?
Coal Dragger
10-12-19, 21:16
The suggestion to look at a bull mastiff is a good one too. They’re very cool dogs, great personalities and quite relaxed in the house and around their people.
Had a very abused dog show up at the house one day. Would not come to me but looked like she felt she had nowhere else to go. So I started feeding her. She eventually warmed up and it took about a year before I could pet her without a wince/flench. Started acting like I was coming in for a smack and then started telling her she was a good dog and petting her nice. That helped a lot.
The next dog was from a farmer on the roadside. Best dog I ever had. The mom was half husky half wolf, dad was Australian Shepherd. I picked the only one with brown eyes and without the mane. That was the best dog ever. Smart, tough and acted like a 2 year old dog even though he was 14. One day he just started stroking out and had to put him down. No joint issues, teeth were great, he was deaf though. Took us all in total shock he was great up until that day.
This is the first dog I have been seeking out to purchase.
There is one thing you can't buy, knowing you gave those dogs a better life than anyone else was probably capable of doing. Not saying don't buy a dog, but if the rescue option exists (and one of the best dogs I ever had was literally a stray that got caught trying to climb under my fence) I typically go that route.
If the German is a few notches down on activity from the Dutch, I may lean that way. It will be a family dog and not worked hard. I think I will have a lot of chewed up stuff out of boredom if I go Dutch and that’s not fair to it.
I have a Belgian. I've worked with a lot of dog trainers over the years and I know a bit about training dogs, but just being in my 40s and not being able to devote a lot of time to her was hard on her. If I'd have been in my 20s it wouldn't have been as challenging. But I literally would have to take bike rides every day just to run the extra energy out of her. Belgians and Dutch definitely need a job and a defined role or they just go stir crazy.
I've been training real protection dogs since the early 90s. Sport dogs too, and obedience, and puppy training, and problem solving, dog aggression, people aggression, etc... I'm the guy that gets called when other trainers and vets tell people to put their dog to sleep because its "incorrigible". I'm a 5 time National Champion in PSA, and had the 5th dog to ever earn a PSA 3 title back when a PSA 3 was near impossible to get. (Its much easier now, or so I'm told...)
I mention these things so you'll understand the "color" of my opinions to be stated here.
Back in the 70s and 80s GSDs were amazing dogs. Well built with super intelligence and willingness. Stupid Americans breeding for all the wrong reason ruined them. 95% of them are dysplastic to some degree and weird temperament issues are the norm now. I wouldn't take one for free and I wouldn't recommend one to anyone anymore. They simply aren't what they used to be. If your heart is set on a GSD, then look into the one from the Czech Republic. "Czech shepards". These tend to have sound bodies and minds, more so than "regular" shepards. The problem is that they are also hard core serious dogs that need a lot of time and bite work put into them. Don't get one if competition bite work isn't going to be your new hobby that you engage in for several hours 3-4 times a week. Not suitable as "pets".
Much the same for a Dutch. Not a pet dog. These are the hardest of hard dogs. Gladiators. Happy to fight all the decoys, the judge, the trial steward, AND the handler to the death to stay on a bite. This is the wrong dog for 99.9% of professional trainers. Totally unsuitable as a pet in a home. Many of the ones I've worked with reached maturity and went right back up the leash and put the person who raised them in the hospital. And that was with lots of help and guidance from a whole club of people that know what they are doing. These dogs are no joke. Here is one problem with the "Dutch Shepard". There are many trainers and breeders who for some odd reason think that dutchies and mals are two different colors of the same breed. They aren't. Not even close. But for years many people have been cross breeding them and now its a big muddled mess. A Mal pup has to be built up and made into a courageous dog. A dutch pup has to be toned down enough to be controllable. Mals retain a good amount of "handler sensitivity", while some dutchies demonstrate little or no handler sensitivity when they are in drive. These are generalities, and exceptions abound, especially when you get into lines that have been mixed.
Golden retrievers: Not kidding here. My worst aggression cases have been Goldens. Neutered goldens. See more and more aggressive labs every year too. Americans in general are bad at breeding dogs. We ruin all the good ones. Golden retrievers are not the family dogs that most people seem to think they are.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't sound like you (OP) want to start a new hobby. Sounds like you want a nice family dog with some protective instincts that won't require 9-12 hours of training a week. No dog is going to bite bad guys without a substantial amount of training and constant upkeep on that training. Some dog breeds, like the dutch, are much more likely to bite you or your family without substantial training, upkeep and correct handling. Don't get a race car if you aren't a race car driver that intends to race. Here are a few breeds that with minimal training usually turn out to be good family dogs, and have some protectiveness to them with out going overboard in a normal household. Standard poodle, Great Dane, bullmastiff, Rhodesian ridgeback, real pit bulls, Australian shepards. Every trainer you talk to will likely have their own list, and differing opinions on all of this. These breeds are my hobby, my passion and my career. I don't know everything, but I've learned a few things along the way. Your questions are welcome. I'm happy to share what I've learned over the years. I'd post pics, but tinypic.com shut down and I don't know how to post them from any other site without having to sign up and make an account.
Solid info. You just helped me reconcile a lot of things I've observed but couldn't adequately explain / comprehend.
By the way, imgur is the photo host you want. It's the last of the easy to use, won't load your computer down with junk photo hosts.
. Here are a few breeds that with minimal training usually turn out to be good family dogs, and have some protectiveness to them with out going overboard in a normal household. Standard poodle, Great Dane, bullmastiff, Rhodesian ridgeback, real pit bulls, Australian shepards.
People laugh about poodles but I've heard a number of times over the years that standard poodles are pretty damn good dogs.
I personally won't be getting a dog anytime soon because I have two older cats and don't want to turn their senior years upside down by adding a dog to the household. However a type of dog that I've become very interested in of late are lurchers, which as I said is a "type" of dog rather than an actual breed. Basically it's the result of crossing a sighthound like a greyhound or whippet with a working dog like a collie, or a terrier, or a pitbull etc.. the result is a dog with an impressive turn of speed like a sighthound but also the traits from the other parent breed as well such as better nose, better trainability, tougher mentally or physically, or maybe more resilient to harsh weather etc..
Nobody really seems to breed them in the US with any regularity but collie cross lurchers in particular are very popular in the UK.
A cross between two sighthound breeds, such as a greyhound x saluki, is not actually a lurcher and is more correctly called a "longdog"
What are your thoughts on the Sheepoodle? No experience with a sheep dog/poodle mix, that I know of, but in general mutts usually make great dogs.
I have a Belgian. I've worked with a lot of dog trainers over the years and I know a bit about training dogs, but just being in my 40s and not being able to devote a lot of time to her was hard on her. If I'd have been in my 20s it wouldn't have been as challenging. But I literally would have to take bike rides every day just to run the extra energy out of her. Belgians and Dutch definitely need a job and a defined role or they just go stir crazy.
I have four mals right now. I like to have two up and running all the time. My older female is 11 and ready to retire. My primary is 8 and going very strong right now. Working all the time. He's the one in my avatar. I started two new pups a few months ago. They are littermate brothers and six months old now. I'm raising one and my co-trainers are raising the other, but we all trade off periodically. Dog training is my career and my hobby outside of work, so all I do is work them every day. They come to work with me and go hawking with me too. I don't know how a person would do it if they didn't have a job like mine. My hat is off to you. I've seen the "stir crazy" you mentioned. They either get super fearful and bite out of sheer terror and panic, or they get aggressive and bite for entertainment. They seems to like to hear the hairless apes squeal. Scary dogs in the wrong hands, but they can do more than any other breed on the planet in the right hands. It takes an inordinate amount of time and effort to make them in to good dogs, but when a person puts that time in, the result is pure magic. They become almost telepathic with their person. They learn new things is a fraction of the time it takes "normal" dogs. They can perform physical feats that appear to bend the laws of physics. I've always said: "They make a German shepard seem stupid and a border collie seem slow." You can train them to do things that other breeds are bred to do, better than those other breeds. They can out retrieve a retriever. They can bird dog better than a bird dog. I've used mine to hunt rabbits with hawks, they are better than any traditional rabbit hunting dog. They can man track better than a bloodhound.
Yes. I'm a fan. I don't see myself ever not having one, but I readily admit that they are the wrong dog for most people. I talk people out of them all day long. My current two pups are my eighth and ninth mals. The future looks bright. Very bright.
People laugh about poodles but I've heard a number of times over the years that standard poodles are pretty damn good dogs.
I personally won't be getting a dog anytime soon because I have two older cats and don't want to turn their senior years upside down by adding a dog to the household. However a type of dog that I've become very interested in of late are lurchers, which as I said is a "type" of dog rather than an actual breed. Basically it's the result of crossing a sighthound like a greyhound or whippet with a working dog like a collie, or a terrier, or a pitbull etc.. the result is a dog with an impressive turn of speed like a sighthound but also the traits from the other parent breed as well such as better nose, better trainability, tougher mentally or physically, or maybe more resilient to harsh weather etc..
Nobody really seems to breed them in the US with any regularity but collie cross lurchers in particular are very popular in the UK.
A cross between two sighthound breeds, such as a greyhound x saluki, is not actually a lurcher and is more correctly called a "longdog"
When my wife was my girlfriend a few years back, I made a face when she told me she was bringing her bosses poodle home for the weekend. I wasn't a fan. That dog wasn't trained, but the instinct, insight and intelligence was amazing. I showed up at her apartment and she was in the shower. That poodle would not let me in the door. As an experienced protection dog trainer, I tried every trick I knew to back her down and she wasn't budging. I was about to go put on my bite suit when the gf finished her shower and yelled for the dog to stand down, which she did immediately even though she'd been confronting me and ready to fight to the death one second prior. She was protective, but not dangerous. Suspicious of new people, but accepting once we told her it was okay. Instinctively watchful, but not looking to fight. She was truly amazing, and believe me, I've seen some amazing dogs. To be clear, for anyone reading: We are talking about the standard poodles. The big ones. 50-70 pound size.
They have lurchers here in the states. I've seen a few and heard about many. Primarily used for rabbit hunting. I hunt jack rabbits with hawks and a couple friends use golden eagles. Jack rabbits are one of the most athletic animals on the planet. Any dog than can run them down and actually catch them has my respect. My malinois have chased them many times and as athletic and fast as they are, they get as close to the jacks as the jacks want them to be.
My son and his wife picked up an Australian Shepherd out of large parents. He will be a decent sized dog, easily on the largest size of standard. He is smart as a whip and has the most pleasant disposition of any puppy I've ever been around. He also has a decent protective streak already and will put himself between my daughter-in-law and any stranger (to him). He loves kids and is super gentle with them. He's pretty much like every Aussie I've been around. I'm not even a "dog guy" and I like Aussies and their temperament. We had a mini-Aussie (would not recommend them in any way) that we ended up with when my kids were little. She lived 15 years, but was the epitome of everything that happens when you breed for size not standards and brains. Her strong points were her gentleness with my kids and her outright fearlessness at anything that might harm them.
Bulletdog is right. My neighbor's neutered male Golden is an asshole... and stupid as a post. I also agree with his assessment about standard poodles. My buddy has one and it's a great dog. Damn smart, decent bird dog, and calm as can be inside the house and around people. He's impervious to the teasing about that poodle, and he gets plenty of teasing.
Coal Dragger
10-13-19, 03:16
Yeah standard poodles are damn good dogs, you don’t have to give them idiotic haircuts, which helps.
In other dog related news tonight my 2 year old son used the 9 month old Rottweiler puppy’s cheeks/jowls as handles and pulled himself up on the couch using the poor dog’s face as a grab iron. The puppy seemed completely indifferent to this, as well as every other indignity a toddler inflicts upon a dog. He is amazingly good natured, the boy can lay on him, climb on him, hug him, etc and the a Rottweiler seems to actually enjoy it. Our female GSD will play along for awhile, but once she’s had enough she just gets up and goes to another area.
I was not too keen on the Rottweiler, it was my wife’s idea since she grew up around them, but I have to concede that aside from the normal puppy issues Jack is turning out to be a very good family dog. He is quite magnanimous and hopefully he stays that way.
Yeah standard poodles are damn good dogs, you don’t have to give them idiotic haircuts, which helps.
In other dog related news tonight my 2 year old son used the 9 month old Rottweiler puppy’s cheeks/jowls as handles and pulled himself up on the couch using the poor dog’s face as a grab iron. The puppy seemed completely indifferent to this, as well as every other indignity a toddler inflicts upon a dog. He is amazingly good natured, the boy can lay on him, climb on him, hug him, etc and the a Rottweiler seems to actually enjoy it. Our female GSD will play along for awhile, but once she’s had enough she just gets up and goes to another area.
I was not too keen on the Rottweiler, it was my wife’s idea since she grew up around them, but I have to concede that aside from the normal puppy issues Jack is turning out to be a very good family dog. He is quite magnanimous and hopefully he stays that way.
In 1974, I rescued a dog from the Hawthorne Nevada dog pound - statute of limitations is up now - I went over the fence and got it. Turned out to be, according to a couple of vets, a Staffordshire Terrier - not sure they called any dogs pit bulls back then. Best dog ever, my son was a toddler at that point, they were in-separable. One day my son was playing with a pound the peg Fischer-Price toy, I saw him look at the hammer, I knew what he was going to do, and sure enough 'whack' he hit Wrinkles right between the running lights. Wrinkles kind of looked at me as if to say 'how much of this do I have to put up with? He got up moved about three feet and resumed his overwatch of my son. He also penned several folks up against our house when they showed up while I was working on my desert bike and my son was outdoors. Best dog ever, had him for 13 years.
We have pretty much identical GSD's out of different bloodlines, the male is 105, the female is 65. Apparently I'm not much of a trainer, each of them will work/obey me when they are alone, when they are together, pretty much forget it. I just want them to sit, walk to heel, sit when I stop and lay if it is a long stop. The female still needs a short lead and pinch collar,, the male will behave on lead without the pinch collar and I'm pretty sure he'd stay on task without a lead, if she isn't around. Essentially they play with each other all day and tolerate my attempts.
Against my better judgement the wife mated them, so in about 14 weeks we will see what the puppies lock like. My intent is off to the vet with both of them as soon as the puppies are gone, but somehow I think I'm going to do just what the wife wants. First wife and I hobby bred boxers, it's not all that much fun..
The German Shepherd I got I got for free from friends who bred them for search and rescue and law enforcement work. He was the runt of the litter, ironically he ended up being about 115 lb.
He was basically trained, but even with that I had to be on him all the time. But he was a goofball, all he wanted to do was bark and play. Not a malicious bone in his body, he was all dopey sweetheart.
ramairthree
10-13-19, 13:37
The German Shepherd I got I got for free from friends who brought them for search and rescue in law enforcement work. He was the runt of the litter, ironically he ended up being about 115 lb.
He was basically trained, but even with that I had to be on him all the time. But he was a goofball, all he wanted to do was bark and play. Not a malicious bone in his body, he was all dopey sweetheart.
It’s funny how that works.
I picked up the last of a litter of GSD/Husky/Malamute mutts from a farmer for my little brother. He was the runt. Ended up 110 lbs. the others under a hundred when grown.
We had a mini-Aussie (would not recommend them in any way) that we ended up with when my kids were little. She lived 15 years, but was the epitome of everything that happens when you breed for size not standards and brains. Her strong points were her gentleness with my kids and her outright fearlessness at anything that might harm them.
I agree 100% and have had the same experience that you describe with every mini Aussie I've come across.
In other dog related news tonight my 2 year old son used the 9 month old Rottweiler puppy’s cheeks/jowls as handles and pulled himself up on the couch using the poor dog’s face as a grab iron. The puppy seemed completely indifferent to this, as well as every other indignity a toddler inflicts upon a dog. He is amazingly good natured, the boy can lay on him, climb on him, hug him, etc and the a Rottweiler seems to actually enjoy it. Our female GSD will play along for awhile, but once she’s had enough she just gets up and goes to another area.
The first trainer that I apprenticed under had two rotties and we worked with a lot of them. They really run the spectrum. Some of them are gentle and great with people, and others are truly dangerous dogs. When you find a good one, there isn't anything better, but when you see enough of the bad ones, it makes you think twice. They tend to get very dominant as they reach maturity. So dominant that they aren't willing to accept dominance from the people who raised them or anyone else. They need an experienced owner who is willing to demonstrate a heavy hand when needed early on. Akitas are similar in this way. It is for this reason that I don't normally recommend them to people, even though I do love the breed and recognize how fantastic some of them can be. If someone decides on their own to get one, I'm happy to offer help and suggestions to make it go well. Sounds like you've got a good one, but keep an eye out when he reaches 18-24 months and those hormones really get going.
This a great thread and I've learned a lot. I've had 6 GSDs over my span of 40yrs since I was a baby. Easily some of the best and smartest dogs I've ever been around. Second only to my little buddy who was a Norwich Terrier who I had to put down after he was only around for 9yrs.
Grand58742
10-13-19, 15:17
My rescue GSD is currently napping on the loveseat (yeah, she has her own couch). She had been turned into us on base and the local animal shelter put her on the "no adopt" list since she was, in their opinion "too far gone to save or adopt." I took her right back out and to my vet where they gave her "maybe a week."
Seven years later, she's been the most loyal companion and integrated herself into my life without any hesitation. She was a purebred (though no papers, I got my analysis from a breeder) and on the younger side, already spayed and easily trained. She even learned to co-habitate with the cat I had at the time. A true friend for life.
Regardless, if I was to ever get another GSD, I'd go the rescue route again. Plenty of people that take in GSDs don't realize they have a high upkeep in the beginning and can't deal with them. You could do worse than finding a local GSD rescue in your area and giving one another lease on life. They realize who saved them and are loyal in return.
Grand58742
10-13-19, 15:46
Regardless of the specific breed of GSD you go with, there are two items I'd tell you to buy up front:
https://www.rayallen.com/heavy-duty-dog-balls
For play time. Trust me, hours of enjoyment. I used to be able to put mine in the backyard with it and come back two hours after mowing the yard and she's still rolling it around.
https://www.rayallen.com/kong-classic-king-extreme-dogs-over-90-lbs-black
For training. Best tool ever made IMO. I've never seen a GSD that didn't take to a Kong right away. FYI, I have no financial ties to Ray Allen, just good folks I've done business with before.
Also, this stuff has been great for mine.
https://www.amazon.com/Phycox-Canine-Joint-Support-Chews/dp/B0014FTA74
It helps with the dysplasia in their later years.
1_click_off
10-13-19, 17:09
Never considered the poodle, but more I read the more I think it is a viable option.
Any thoughts on an Airedale Terrier?
Edit: never mind on the Airedale. I read up on it some. I quickly decided we were not compatible.
Coal Dragger
10-13-19, 17:21
I agree 100% and have had the same experience that you describe with every mini Aussie I've come across.
The first trainer that I apprenticed under had two rotties and we worked with a lot of them. They really run the spectrum. Some of them are gentle and great with people, and others are truly dangerous dogs. When you find a good one, there isn't anything better, but when you see enough of the bad ones, it makes you think twice. They tend to get very dominant as they reach maturity. So dominant that they aren't willing to accept dominance from the people who raised them or anyone else. They need an experienced owner who is willing to demonstrate a heavy hand when needed early on. Akitas are similar in this way. It is for this reason that I don't normally recommend them to people, even though I do love the breed and recognize how fantastic some of them can be. If someone decides on their own to get one, I'm happy to offer help and suggestions to make it go well. Sounds like you've got a good one, but keep an eye out when he reaches 18-24 months and those hormones really get going.
We’ve had “words” a few times already.
By words I mean physical discipline of the unpleasant variety. He most definitely responds to positive reinforcement for good behavior and consequences for bad behavior. I don’t like putting a boot in his ass, but when he tries to be hard headed it makes it easy to want to show him very heavy attitude adjustments. He’s pretty smart, and usually doesn’t repeat the bad behavior. He’s also into food so it’s easy to figure out a reward.
I’ll reach out if I run into any behavior issues that I can not or my wife can not solve. She’s probably more stern/strict than me. She won’t let him get away with anything.
Coal Dragger
10-13-19, 17:24
My rescue GSD is currently napping on the loveseat (yeah, she has her own couch). She had been turned into us on base and the local animal shelter put her on the "no adopt" list since she was, in their opinion "too far gone to save or adopt." I took her right back out and to my vet where they gave her "maybe a week."
Seven years later, she's been the most loyal companion and integrated herself into my life without any hesitation. She was a purebred (though no papers, I got my analysis from a breeder) and on the younger side, already spayed and easily trained. She even learned to co-habitate with the cat I had at the time. A true friend for life.
Regardless, if I was to ever get another GSD, I'd go the rescue route again. Plenty of people that take in GSDs don't realize they have a high upkeep in the beginning and can't deal with them. You could do worse than finding a local GSD rescue in your area and giving one another lease on life. They realize who saved them and are loyal in return.
Our GSD is also a rescue, we’re her 3rd family and her last. A few months of consistency in her life and she’s a happy well adjusted family member.
eightmillimeter
10-14-19, 11:55
No intent to derail but thank you Bulletdog cause I will be back in the market again in a year or two.
I’ve had 3 rhodesians that were all exceptional dogs, but they just don’t live long
1_click_off
10-14-19, 22:44
Going to try to swing by a local trainer tomorrow. Think they work a lot with Labs, but will find out tomorrow.
Mike Miller
10-15-19, 06:25
I haven't read through the whole thread, but look into checking out trainers in your area for service dogs, and see if they advertise for finding homes for dogs that fail the training. They can still be great dogs, but may fail for being easily distracted or being too aggressive to cats, etc
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