View Full Version : Does modification of a polymer pistol increase the value?
Business_Casual
10-13-19, 18:52
I see a lot of ads of polymer pistols with asking prices above list for the stock pistol. I just don’t feel most of those mods increase the value. Night sights, yes. Stipple, undercut, no. Zev hack job on the slide? Hell no.
Thoughts on the market?
SomeOtherGuy
10-13-19, 19:41
In my opinion no. But I think the people buying or doing those mods are extremely proud of their specialness, so they just know their modified pistol is worth more than an unmodified new one.
I see similar ads but I don't see people actually buying pistols at those prices. I don't see dealers buying modified pistols for resale.
But this was rhetorical, right?
It all depends on what the end user desires. Just like painting guns, some like it, most don't need it. I personally don't like paying for labor, I consider it lost money. That's why I prefer to do anything I can do or take advantage of factory options. Now, some of this work folks have done does look great, some works of art but I don't think it's worth it to me.
I've seen plenty of guns I would've picked up but some knothead either rattle canned it or paid someone way too much for a cerakote job and wants the buyer to pay for it, no thanks. Custom bolt guns, nope don't care if Moses himself built it, lost money.
It all depends on what the end user desires.
I'm in this camp. If the potential buyer would send it off to be stippled, undercut, etc. then you MIGHT be able to get a premium.
My limited experience in selling rifles at gun shows has taught me that folks aren't willing to pay enough to cover my nut for aftermarket bolt catches, ambi mag releases, fancy safety levers, etc.
No. Most buyers would prefer to buy an OEM pistol and have custom work done to fit them.
Other than a glock trigger guard undercut there is nothing worth while to modify the frame. Night sights may but you won’t get the return on them when sold. For me and my glocks I do install the G34 extended controls but that is it and they are cheap so no big loss if I were to sell them.
No interest. In fact I try to stay away from anything that's been customized. I don't even trust people who put their own night sights on
I often wonder about the "custom" guns with 50 rounds fired and for sale, it's almost like the fat chick in spikes you thought was a good idea at bar closing.
There is a difference between homemade stippled jobs versus a professional one. However no one will ever pay you even 50%off the custom work unless it is a Wilson Combat or as such.
That said, that is why you should keep the replace parts when you upgrade. That way you can put the item back to stock when you sell. I had a tricked up 22/45. Couldn’t sell it for nothing at the lgs on consignment. Ended up selling it in pieces on eBay and Gunbroker for way more than what I had asked. Some of the reason is that you have a bigger market of people with parts that already bought the gun.
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Was talking to my LGS owner who buys and assesses value on a lot of used firearms. His perspective was that mods to most firearms don't add a lot of market/resale value. I've seen that firsthand in the past, selling firearms privately and to LGS. My perspective as a buyer is I wouldn't pay for mods on *any* polymer pistol.
Used to customize my own 1911, CZ, and polymer pistols. I had a couple S&W M&P's that I spent--too much on. :-) Now esp with polymer pistols I just run them stock, only buy ones where I can stand the stock trigger. My logic is I won't get anything back in resale value on mods, and with plastic pistols I tend to buy two of what I carry, then trade/sell them every few years as improved models keep coming out.
This is the same question with anything else, like sports cars, Jeeps, watches, fashion. Homes may be the few place where custom upgrades are largely valued, though you can “overbuild” for the market. The average buyer of anything is a purist. He likes “factory.” He’s accepted the marketing. He’s told factory is important. “Restored” vehicles brings a certain warm feeling to the retro muscle car fan club.
Yet an educated buyer knows what upgrades are worth. But most buyers are just looking at blue books.
Danger Close and Agency Arms both sell modded glocks at a premium. And people buy a lot of them. But it comes with the warm fuzzy “factory” feeling and loads of marketing. And a buyer, again, is educated in what he’s getting: a basic general firearm that is “good enough.”
Upgrades add value if done right because value is in the piece itself. Quality frame mods, slide mods, and night sights, IMO, are most valuable for duty use. A match barrel perhaps for certain goals. But finding the right buyer who understands the value is another story. Hence why upgrades usually don’t add much to a price tag for someone who wants to sell quickly without also spending hours educating potential buyers in what they are looking at. Then again, try selling a brand new Glock barrel takeoff for retail. People won’t pay it. It lacks the warm fuzzy. Would we say the Glock barrel isn’t worth a Glock barrel? ;)
I have a CZ in the EE case in point. When the right buyer comes along, he’ll see it’s a raging steal. He would pay more but I want a quicker sale. Hence my price is for the less informed purist willing to live a little.
This is the same question with anything else, like sports cars, Jeeps, watches, fashion. Homes may be the few place where custom upgrades are largely valued, though you can “overbuild” for the market. The average buyer of anything is a purist. He likes “factory.” He’s accepted the marketing. He’s told factory is important. “Restored” vehicles brings a certain warm feeling to the retro muscle car fan club.
Yet an educated buyer knows what upgrades are worth. But most buyers are just looking at blue books.
Danger Close and Agency Arms both sell modded glocks at a premium. And people buy a lot of them. But it comes with the warm fuzzy “factory” feeling and loads of marketing. And a buyer, again, is educated in what he’s getting: a basic general firearm that is “good enough.”
Upgrades add value if done right because value is in the piece itself. Quality frame mods, slide mods, and night sights, IMO, are most valuable for duty use. A match barrel perhaps for certain goals. But finding the right buyer who understands the value is another story. Hence why upgrades usually don’t add much to a price tag for someone who wants to sell quickly without also spending hours educating potential buyers in what they are looking at. Then again, try selling a brand new Glock barrel takeoff for retail. People won’t pay it. It lacks the warm fuzzy. Would we say the Glock barrel isn’t worth a Glock barrel? ;)
I have a CZ in the EE case in point. When the right buyer comes along, he’ll see it’s a raging steal. He would pay more but I want a quicker sale. Hence my price is for the less informed purist willing to live a little.Reason I like factory is because I don't trust "custom". I don't know who did it....chances are it's the owner, and I don't know their skill level. Many people overestimate their skills. I don't want to pay hundreds to find out I need to put hundreds into it because something somewhere doesn't work.
If you cross paths with someone wanting the modification then you might come out ok as the seller.
I would be really surprised if a present day person with a wood burner/laser engraver/soldering iron is going to be viewed in the same light as an Armand Swenson a few decades down the road.
Reason I like factory is because I don't trust "custom". I don't know who did it....chances are it's the owner, and I don't know their skill level. Many people overestimate their skills. I don't want to pay hundreds to find out I need to put hundreds into it because something somewhere doesn't work.
Depends on the modification, but I get it. A frame modification by a solid company should be worry free. Same with slides. Internals are a different story. All depends if I KNOW what was done and know how to inspect it. Glocks are simple mechanisms where most of the aftermarket focuses.
Even still, we all should know how to inspect our own FACTORY built firearms. Even factory firearms can have their issues and need their maintenance.
Depends on the modification, but I get it. A frame modification by a solid company should be worry free. Same with slides. Internals are a different story. All depends if I KNOW what was done and know how to inspect it. Glocks are simple mechanisms where most of the aftermarket focuses.
Even still, we all should know how to inspect our own FACTORY built firearms. Even factory firearms can have their issues and need their maintenance.True. But worse case factory provides a warranty. Not so from the Goober with a Dremel!
Does modification of a polymer pistol increase the value?
Someone here has a quote that goes something like this - "Stippled Glock and worn panties have this in common - their value depends heavily on their previous owner"
So it really depends. When I look for Glocks or list something for sale / trade, I state I want "unmolested Glocks", so no frames defiled by bubba and a soldering iron.
Not so much. Kind of like diesel pickups, as soon as somebody slaps a tuner in it, who knows just what happened to the engine. Some are treated well, some blow up every part you can think of.
I can't speak for Glocks or any of the other plastic guns. Since I started shooting 92's, I figured out real fast I could order a set of G10 grips, a lighter hammer spring, and a G conversion and have a much more shootable gun that I'd be more than happy to (and do now daily) carry. That doesn't add much, if anything, to the value of the gun, especially since I shoot it a bunch and carry it daily. Even if it was just an occasional shooter, one might be able to get the cost of the parts out of it, which still isn't a lot. To have a 92 built by Langdon Tactical or Wilson indeed does have the added value, as the work is very well known. Langdon sells their trigger job in a bag, though, or even most/all the individual components. This middle ground between essentially stock and a job done by Langdon/Wilson is where it would seem to get dicey. It's not hard to swap all said parts into the gun, but who's to say that Bubba didn't slap the wrong weight springs in it and it won't shoot worth a hoot. I'll wind up doing more to my M9 at some point as I'm highly intrigued by the 6 lb DA trigger that can be had on one, and I'm not worried about resale because it won't be worth much after I'm done with it anyway. If I have reliability issues, I have a back up 92 Compact that's good to go.
Its ironic that this thread pops up after spending a few hours today at a widows residence looking over her late husbands extensive handgun collection with a mutual non-shooting friend of ours. I was there to give her an unbiased opinion of what she had on her hands, there possibile values, how quick they will sell, etc. etc. I had no intention to buy anything, just there as a favor to my pal. Besides I promised the wife... With the exception of 6 handguns, each and every pistol and or revolver had some level of customization, some practical for its role others not so much. All the accessories for each gun were there but any "take off" parts from them were long gone. Taking into consideration the time frame the late owner was actively using his guns, he might have gotten back most, not all, of the value and money on his competition modded 1911, TZs, Paras and revolvers but that time came and went quickly. A LGS told her the exact same thing as mentioned here, paraphrasing it "these mods were all what you late husband liked and may not get the money he put into them or even a high value on the gun due to the mods, current time frame and whats popular." These were all traditional metal framed guns with 3 exceptions for pistols: HK USP 9C, Glock 20 Gen 3 10mm, and G23 Gen 3 .40S&W. The 3 unmodified revolvers were S&W 640, 66, and a 686 in .38/357. I made a fair offer for those six guns due to the simple fact that they were not messed with at all, barely looked like they had 100rnds through them, the revolvers were still NIB and they fit in to my" want to buy if good deal" list. The other 1911s, various revolvers, various pistols were all modified in some shape or form and one can easily tell by a quick glance. The work done to the guns was good but after looking through paperwork w/each gun there were no "name brand 'smiths" were involved in the work, sadly another negative point. The widow might be able to sell them in ones or twos but it will be a long time. The point here is unmodified used metal framed guns, depending on what brand caliber, etc will not fly off the LGS used shelf and damn sure a bubba messed with Glock or M&P etc will languish collecting dust even longer! Buyer and seller beware!!
I dont think so, i for one would like to buy a factory guns so i can modify however i wan.. else the gun is Mod in a way that i want it. doesnt speak much for an sfter market value.
davidjinks
10-14-19, 22:50
In my opinion, no it doesn’t. However, one man’ trash is another man’s treasure.
If I want someone to hack up my gun, I’ll buy it new, decide what exactly I want and then send it out myself.
I see a lot of ads of polymer pistols with asking prices above list for the stock pistol. I just don’t feel most of those mods increase the value. Night sights, yes. Stipple, undercut, no. Zev hack job on the slide? Hell no.
Thoughts on the market?
If you cross paths with someone wanting the modification then you might come out ok as the seller.
I would be really surprised if a present day person with a wood burner/laser engraver/soldering iron is going to be viewed in the same light as an Armand Swenson a few decades down the road.
Armand Swenson was a true master at 1911's! I handled several of his hard chrome builds back in the early 90's when I was stationed in San Diego....they are classics!
FlyAndFight
10-16-19, 16:19
I'm with the majority on this one and agree with Fledge's examples, especially used vehicles. When I see "mod(s)" mentioned, my spidey senses start to tingle and I tend to move on.
DaringRaider
10-21-19, 09:04
Like a previous poster said, unless it's from a well known Smith, with the paperwork / invoice to back it up, it's worth LESS than a stock pistol IMO.
This thread reminds me of a guy sitting in his mini van asking why the price of a used ZR1 corvette cost more than a new stock corvette.
I can tell by the wording in the OP that he has no intention of using a gun with stipple or milled slide, like the guy in the mini van won't use a corvette.
Those that do want that type of equipment are unfortunately a small minority. Companies like S&W, SA, etc wouldn't mill slides and stipple grips if it didn't serve a purpose.
I was in a class in Michigan outdoors in March a few years ago. The temp was 8 degrees at the start of the class. A few hours into the class the instructor ran a drill called malfunction mayhem. He would cause your gun to malfunction and it was up to you to get it back into the fight. With completely numb hands I started to understand why a family member wasted the money destroying the look of his gun, with the stippled grip and milled slide.
He swapped guns with me for the rest if that drill and that was a real eye opener.
Needles to say Monday morning I contacted the shop he had the work done on his gun and ordered what I had been calling a waste of money.
That gun is my edc now and why I laugh when reading these type of threads, I used to think like the majority in this thread.
DaringRaider
10-21-19, 19:44
This thread reminds me of a guy sitting in his mini van asking why the price of a used ZR1 corvette cost more than a new stock corvette.
I can tell by the wording in the OP that he has no intention of using a gun with stipple or milled slide, like the guy in the mini van won't use a corvette.
Those that do want that type of equipment are unfortunately a small minority. Companies like S&W, SA, etc wouldn't mill slides and stipple grips if it didn't serve a purpose.
I was in a class in Michigan outdoors in March a few years ago. The temp was 8 degrees at the start of the class. A few hours into the class the instructor ran a drill called malfunction mayhem. He would cause your gun to malfunction and it was up to you to get it back into the fight. With completely numb hands I started to understand why a family member wasted the money destroying the look of his gun, with the stippled grip and milled slide.
He swapped guns with me for the rest if that drill and that was a real eye opener.
Needles to say Monday morning I contacted the shop he had the work done on his gun and ordered what I had been calling a waste of money.
That gun is my edc now and why I laugh when reading these type of threads, I used to think like the majority in this thread.
I don't think he was asking about the utility of the mods. He was asking about the value of them.
I personally run a Costa Comp 9mm so mine came set up like that. But I still wouldn't value someone else's mods as much as I would my own or ones done by a reputable smith.
I don't think he was asking about the utility of the mods. He was asking about the value of them.
I personally run a Costa Comp 9mm so mine came set up like that. But I still wouldn't value someone else's mods as much as I would my own or ones done by a reputable smith.
Has anybody with a similar mindset to yours referred to your slide as a hack job like the OP did?
Modifications will have a value to a user and within a context. Some will buy because the gun is perceived as custom/special/etc, others will buy because they have need of a feature, and others will pass.
Rattlehead
10-22-19, 11:11
This is very subjective. There are many things that can be done to a stock Glock (I'm assuming you're referring to these specifically) to enhance accuracy and usability.
I'm obviously biased, but it really depends on the person and what they plan on doing with the gun. We have many clients who have no problem paying a premium for limited edition pistols due to rarity and collect-ability. Others, would rather have something that suits exactly what they need that they can beat to hell and not have to worry about the next range trip or training session.
These modifications are very similar to modifying a car. Realistically, the next buyer will not have the same vision that you did for it, so anything done to it (no matter how much value you think has been added, including cost) that strays from their intended purpose will decrease value.
Pricing surrounding certain 1911s is a different story all together.
Ive never got more money after a trigger job and night sights and whatever else.
PB
This thread reminds me of a guy sitting in his mini van asking why the price of a used ZR1 corvette cost more than a new stock corvette.
I can tell by the wording in the OP that he has no intention of using a gun with stipple or milled slide, like the guy in the mini van won't use a corvette.
Those that do want that type of equipment are unfortunately a small minority. Companies like S&W, SA, etc wouldn't mill slides and stipple grips if it didn't serve a purpose.
I was in a class in Michigan outdoors in March a few years ago. The temp was 8 degrees at the start of the class. A few hours into the class the instructor ran a drill called malfunction mayhem. He would cause your gun to malfunction and it was up to you to get it back into the fight. With completely numb hands I started to understand why a family member wasted the money destroying the look of his gun, with the stippled grip and milled slide.
He swapped guns with me for the rest if that drill and that was a real eye opener.
Needles to say Monday morning I contacted the shop he had the work done on his gun and ordered what I had been calling a waste of money.
That gun is my edc now and why I laugh when reading these type of threads, I used to think like the majority in this thread.
I just use skateboard tape.
I just use skateboard tape.Which is fine if that works for you. My wife uses Talon grips on hers, however she has to constantly mess with it because it peels off.
I'm old school, do it right the first time and never have to worry about it again, buy once cry once.
Stippling is stippling. I DIY it to my Glocks because my hands sweat when it's 10 degrees below zero. Ugly AF, too, ain't no one going to buy that frame. But also hundreds cheaper for the same thing, prettier.
But for the mechanical modifications, yeah, maybe, if it's attractive to buyers.
robbins290
10-24-19, 06:17
I would not buy any frame that has been modified. By a gunsmith or personal. I have been offered some. I pissed them off for the price i offered for them.
Business_Casual
10-25-19, 13:44
Has anybody with a similar mindset to yours referred to your slide as a hack job like the OP did?
My point was, and remains, that taking a polymer pistol and making irreversible changes to it does not have a dollar for dollar impact on its value. A $500 Glock is still a $500 Glock irrespective of how much you paid someone to chop, stipple, refinish, etc.
Late to the party-Absent a very few weapons with work performed by a very few craftsmen, no additional value added by modification of the polymer pistol.
If I modify anything it's because I'm going to keep it. If someone else is selling something used, usually the only circumstances I buy is from a shop I trust which has looked it over and will assign a price they think to be correct.
Freerunner
10-25-19, 14:52
I don't personally buy altered firearms. I like stock firearms, then customize them myself.
I would say it decreases value if not done by a reputable shop.
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Too many variables on home gunsmithing to “roll the dice” on a purchase.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191025/de92e64c315edca9f1b37c7f77565a45.jpg
Traded a Glock 26 gen 4 straight up for this. I feel like I got the better end of the deal.
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My point was, and remains, that taking a polymer pistol and making irreversible changes to it does not have a dollar for dollar impact on its value. A $500 Glock is still a $500 Glock irrespective of how much you paid someone to chop, stipple, refinish, etc.
Opinions are great aren't they.
Max Collins
10-25-19, 19:50
Almost always decreases value, IMO.
Business_Casual
10-25-19, 20:37
Traded a Glock 26 gen 4 straight up for this. I feel like I got the better end of the deal.
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An equitable trade, as stock for stock those are very similar MSRP values. The modification didn’t put you off, and didn’t imbue it with additional equity, exactly my point.
I see a lot of ads of polymer pistols with asking prices above list for the stock pistol. I just don’t feel most of those mods increase the value. Night sights, yes. Stipple, undercut, no. Zev hack job on the slide? Hell no.
Thoughts on the market?
Just had to comment on this portion. I wanted to make a Roland Special type carry gun. For those of you unfamiliar with the RS: the short story is a duty/carry style gun based on a G19, with a KKM barrel w/ comp and Surefire X300U light. It's meant to run full power loads.
I considered a stock MOS as the basis, but wanted the dot to run lower to the frame and the mount to be more robust.
I also considered sending out the stock G19 Gen 5 slide with the factory DLC finish to be milled. The milling option added substantial lead time to complete the project. The second major concern was that the milled area had to be refinished with a finish that wasn't of the same equivalent as the stock DLC coating.
The Zev came with stock DLC coating and a milled area specific to the RMR and it was in my hands within a couple of days. I bought a Citadel without the window cuts and the cost was similar to having a slide milled.
The gun has been great for me.
Note: I kept the original slide complete so similar to an AR, I can just change out uppers (slide) and be back to factory for resale if that need ever comes up.
IF you were planning on making the same mods yourself, it may be worth it to you.
But some of the asking prices I've seen make me laugh.
Only if you're the smith doing the work. If it's from a popular place and was featured in a John Wick movie, it might retain more value. But those guns are so heavily modified they're basically factory. Not exactly in the same ballpark as buying a gun and taking it to a smith for custom work.
IF you were planning on making the same mods yourself, it may be worth it to you.
But some of the asking prices I've seen make me laugh.
You mean the ad that goes...blah blah blah. All together, this cost me $1500 for gun and work so I am going to ask $1499?!
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Business_Casual
10-27-19, 06:42
The Zev came with stock DLC coating and a milled area specific to the RMR and it was in my hands within a couple of days. I bought a Citadel without the window cuts and the cost was similar to having a slide milled
Yes, of course there are individual exceptions to my description.
Mr. Goodtimes
10-27-19, 09:50
I see a lot of ads of polymer pistols with asking prices above list for the stock pistol. I just don’t feel most of those mods increase the value. Night sights, yes. Stipple, undercut, no. Zev hack job on the slide? Hell no.
Thoughts on the market?
IMO opinion, unless the pistol has been professionally modified by someone like Salient, TTI or Agency... I'd rather have a stock pistol and send it of or modify it my self. "Custom" Glocks modified by Cletus in his garage are probably infinitely more dangerous than an AR built by the same Cleti.
My point was, and remains, that taking a polymer pistol and making irreversible changes to it does not have a dollar for dollar impact on its value. A $500 Glock is still a $500 Glock irrespective of how much you paid someone to chop, stipple, refinish, etc.
Exactly right, IMO.
As somebody said earlier: there are some exceptions. Example: a 1911 customized by a reputable shop, and seller has the paperwork to prove it. That situation, and a knowledgeable 1911 buyer who wants those mods: that can be worth it. In my experience, that's the exception to the rule.
Polymer pistols: just, no way. I don't mod them myself anymore, at all, other than sights if necessary. They are a consumable.
oldbrowndog
10-27-19, 14:07
There’s a reason I get my Glock slides RMR cut by ATEi and frames stippled by Polymer Refined with documentation to prove it. If I ever need or want to sell, I’ll get a significant portion of my money out of those guns. And it certainly doesn’t hurt that the work is impeccable.
I don't think so, personally don't like all the frame mods on Glocks... but to each his own as they say
kihnspiracy
10-27-19, 19:57
I don't think they add any value at all, except for night sights. Most of the mods you see done to polymer pistols look like crap IMHO.
Unless the mods are exactly what the potential buyer wants, I don't think there is any increase in value. For the most part, buyers would rather have factory guns and have the mods done themselves.
The butt hurt that flows through this thread is amazing.
You know what determines the worth of a modified Glock? The wallet of the person willing to buy it.
Hate it or love it, I see these things sell all the time for more than stock glocks go for.
Just cause you don’t agree with it, doesn’t mean your opinion holds any value in the resale of the Gun. Cause you’re being proven wrong with every sale.
This is like dudes arguing that 1911s are better than Glocks. It’s a new day folks.
They’ll sell regardless of your opinion.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191028/9b6796fcc27f547b7bc052c3a2f15c4b.jpg
Reading some of these responses, I just picture the old man yelling “get off my lawn!”, mad at the prices that some one else wants to sell their own property for. If you aren’t interested in buying it, don’t worry about it. Lol.
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Business_Casual
10-28-19, 19:11
The butt hurt that flows through this thread is amazing.
You know what determines the worth of a modified Glock? The wallet of the person willing to buy it.
Hate it or love it, I see these things sell all the time for more than stock glocks go for.
Just cause you don’t agree with it, doesn’t mean your opinion holds any value in the resale of the Gun. Cause you’re being proven wrong with every sale.
This is like dudes arguing that 1911s are better than Glocks. It’s a new day folks.
They’ll sell regardless of your opinion.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191028/9b6796fcc27f547b7bc052c3a2f15c4b.jpg
Reading some of these responses, I just picture the old man yelling “get off my lawn!”, mad at the prices that some one else wants to sell their own property for. If you aren’t interested in buying it, don’t worry about it. Lol.
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Do you have the ability to make your point without being abrasive? You do realize that you’ve merely repeated what some earlier posters said with more inflammatory phrasing?
Do you have the ability to make your point without being abrasive? You do realize that you’ve merely repeated what some earlier posters said with more inflammatory phrasing?
Absolutely, but there were a few others who had the same sentiment in their responses that fell on deaf ears.
This thread is below the standards that I love about M4C.net And find it absolutely hilarious that it still remains. I felt that tact, was something better thrown to the way side in hopes that, folks would see the ridiculousness of the high horses in this thread.
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Too many variables on home gunsmithing to “roll the dice” on a purchase.
Depends on if it cosmetic (i.e., stippling) or mechanical.
Since my stippling looks like it was done by Michael J. Fox, no one would want to buy it anyway, which is good, because I stippled it for me.
I don't buy anything with any trigger or action work unless it's a drop-in type of trigger; even then, I want the paperwork. Too much of a liability issue.
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