View Full Version : Can’t decide on upper and need help
Walker_Texasranger
10-18-19, 20:39
I keep going back and forth and I’m getting angry so decide for me.
I have a BCM lower with an A5 waiting. I can’t decide if I want a 14.5 BCM BFH ELW with a 13” MCMR and a pinned A2X or a 16” ELW with a 15” MCMR. I’m pretty set on the 14.5 but would I regret it for any reason? I’m not a huge fan of the available muzzle devices from them so I think the A2X is the way to go. Maybe the Warcomp but I’m more concerned with less flash and concussion.
Either upper will get a red dot of some sort. Probably an aimpoint T2.
I’m drinking bourbon and ready to order so help me out friends.
Best advice:
Make your own decision based on whether you will be shooting at shorter or longer distances and whether you really need a 15” handguard based on your height/arm length.
What do you want to do with the rifle, and what performance do you expect?
With the info given:
If you will never buy a silencer, or shoot it out before you get one, get the 14.5”. A2 is good and no reason to change it later.
If you are not sure what you want or like to chase the new “hottness”, get the 16”
Either way, the difference is minimal, and performance wont matter either way.
Walker_Texasranger
10-18-19, 20:55
Best advice:
Make your own decision based on whether you will be shooting at shorter or longer distances and whether you really need a 15” handguard based on your height/arm length.
I’m 6’1” and I won’t be shooting far. 100 yards max usually. Maybe further on occasion but that’s what an LPVO is for.
Walker_Texasranger
10-18-19, 20:56
If you will never buy a silencer, or shoot it out before you get one, get the 14.5”. A2 is good and no reason to change it later.
If you are not sure what you want or like to chase the new “hottness”, get the 16”
Either way, the difference is minimal, and performance wont matter either way.
Almost bought a suppressor today but the wait will kill me and I’ve should suppressed guns before and they are fun but I don’t like the added weight so probably won’t get one.
methical20
10-18-19, 21:07
Lots of fans of the 16” barrel on this forum and I understand why, but my preference is always the 14.5” - even if pinned.
If I was in your situation, I would 100% get the 14.5” ELW barrel with the Warcomp pinned and be done with it.
Walker_Texasranger
10-18-19, 21:24
Lots of fans of the 16” barrel on this forum and I understand why, but my preference is always the 14.5” - even if pinned.
If I was in your situation, I would 100% get the 14.5” ELW barrel with the Warcomp pinned and be done with it.
How’s flash and concussion with the Warcomp?
How’s flash and concussion with the Warcomp?
Flash with Warcomp is minimal by my eyes through a 12.5”, and the concussion was nothing like the massive concussion I received with another hybrid hider/comp. I don’t see you regretting pinning one.
I’m 6’ and recently tried my first 16” upper. I hated it. 14.5s and shorter for me. MD does make it harder. Obviously A2 is best for flash, BCM comp is awesome and I love it, but more comp-y, warcomp is probably a happy middle and I was just watching videos of it at night and it’s pretty damn good. That being said, I don’t have hands on time with the warcomp but wasn’t really a fan of the closed tone variant. My vote is 14.5 ELW with standard warcomp. Do it now.
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Walker_Texasranger
10-18-19, 22:04
I’m 6’ and recently tried my first 16” upper. I hated it. 14.5s and shorter for me. MD does make it harder. Obviously A2 is best for flash, BCM comp is awesome and I love it, but more comp-y, warcomp is probably a happy middle and I was just watching videos of it at night and it’s pretty damn good. That being said, I don’t have hands on time with the warcomp but wasn’t really a fan of the closed tone variant. My vote is 14.5 ELW with standard warcomp. Do it now.
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K fine I’ll do it. But maybe I’ll get the KMR rail to be different since it’s not the cool thing anymore. Hmm.
TOS would be a good place to ask.
K fine I’ll do it. But maybe I’ll get the KMR rail to be different since it’s not the cool thing anymore. Hmm.
Now you're just being a hipster. MCMR.
titsonritz
10-18-19, 23:22
I have a BCM lower with an A5 waiting. I can’t decide if I want a 14.5 BCM BFH ELW with a 13” MCMR and a pinned A2X or a 16” ELW with a 15” MCMR. I’m pretty set on the 14.5 but would I regret it for any reason? I’m not a huge fan of the available muzzle devices from them so I think the A2X is the way to go. Maybe the Warcomp but I’m more concerned with less flash and concussion.
You should have taken advantage of PA's sale. I bought m 14.5 BCM BFH ELW with a 13” MCMR unpinned so I can choose my MD.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?200439-The-GOOD-DEALs-and-INTERESTING-find-thread!&p=2772879#post2772879
You should have taken advantage of PA's sale. I bought m 14.5 BCM BFH ELW with a 13” MCMR unpinned so I can choose my MD.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?200439-The-GOOD-DEALs-and-INTERESTING-find-thread!&p=2772879#post2772879
Black Friday is only a few weeks away.
Since you aren't getting a suppressor why not give a 14.5 with a pinned Smith Enterprises Vortex 1001-V-A3-PH:
Vortex G6A3 Sound Suppressor Capable Flash Eliminator with 10° Pitch and Helical Grooves
For permanent installation on barrels that are 14.5" in length. Especially designed to make the SEI Sound Suppressor easier to remove, featuring a shallower pitch and grooves to reduce surface contact and carbon buildup. Heat treated same as all other Vortex's. 1/2 x 28 I.D. thread.
It comes drilled and with pins.
http://www.smithenterprise.com/products06.05.html
Here is a review, actually kind of an ad, but explains it well: https://deploymentessentials.com/best-ar15-flash-hider-2/
Here is a pretty good comparison: https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/ar-15-flash-hider-shootout/
titsonritz
10-19-19, 02:23
Black Friday is only a few weeks away.
Yep, 5 weeks out.
Since you aren't getting a suppressor why not give a 14.5 with a pinned Smith Enterprises Vortex 1001-V-A3-PH:
Vortex G6A3 Sound Suppressor Capable Flash Eliminator with 10° Pitch and Helical Grooves
For permanent installation on barrels that are 14.5" in length. Especially designed to make the SEI Sound Suppressor easier to remove, featuring a shallower pitch and grooves to reduce surface contact and carbon buildup. Heat treated same as all other Vortex's. 1/2 x 28 I.D. thread.
It comes drilled and with pins.
http://www.smithenterprise.com/products06.05.html
Here is a review, actually kind of an ad, but explains it well: https://deploymentessentials.com/best-ar15-flash-hider-2/
Here is a pretty good comparison: https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/ar-15-flash-hider-shootout/
This is one of the muzzle devices on a very short list that I'm considering.
Walker_Texasranger
10-19-19, 04:56
I would love the Vortex. Best flash hider from what I can see. But, not an option from BCM. I could buy the upper unpinned and then ship it to ADCO to have them weld it but it’s an extra step. Guess I could though.
I would love the Vortex. Best flash hider from what I can see. But, not an option from BCM. I could buy the upper unpinned and then ship it to ADCO to have them weld it but it’s an extra step. Guess I could though.
If this is your choice, I would send it to John at Retro Arms for the p/w.
I cant make these decisons so i buy everything.
I even have 16" barrels that Ive had cut to around 15" rethreaded then had whatever brake I wanted pinned and welded.
I suck at this.
Walker_Texasranger
10-19-19, 05:45
I cant make these decisons so i buy everything.
I even have 16" barrels that Ive had cut to around 15" rethreaded then had whatever brake I wanted pinned and welded.
I suck at this.
I did that. Had a 6920 cut to 14.7 and the a2 pinned.
But I think the Warcomp is probably a really solid option straight from BCM.
I have one 14.5" AR and a couple of 16 inchers. I cannot tell the difference between them when shooting and the 13" MCMR is available with either barrel length. The $45 to permanently attach a MD and make the gun 3% shorter is IMHO better spent on ammo, a nicer optic mount, mags, etc.
Andy
Is pinned MD worth the potential headache down the road. Quick math says a 14 1/2" barrel with a the Warcomp is 16 5/8 and an A2 on a 16" barrel is 17 1/4". That's only 5/8 shorter.
Is pinned MD worth the potential headache down the road. Quick math says a 14 1/2" barrel with a the Warcomp is 16 5/8 and an A2 on a 16" barrel is 17 1/4". That's only 5/8 shorter.
This. I see little practical difference between the 2 in shooting, ballistics, weight, or anything else I can think of. The *only* diff that matters to me is I like to choose my MD and don't want the restrictive hassle and cost of P/W MD's. I've gone all 16" with my carbines. Honestly I don't get why 14.5's exist, apart from our absurd barrel length laws. If I got in/out of vehicles all day with the rifle or kicked doors for a living, I'd want something shorter than 14.5 anyway.
Walker_Texasranger
10-19-19, 13:15
I was at the range today. Got an “advanced shooter” card so I could rapid fire and shoot the FBI quals and cool drills and stuff on the new range.
Anyway, I was messing with a Daniel Defense V11 and M4a1. Same barrel profile but one is 14.5 and one is 16”. You can def feel a difference but hard to describe. The v11 actually felt better but that’s attributed to the much lighter handguard.
I think it’s just flip a coin at this point. Won’t make much of a difference.
I was at the range today. Got an “advanced shooter” card so I could rapid fire and shoot the FBI quals and cool drills and stuff on the new range.
Anyway, I was messing with a Daniel Defense V11 and M4a1. Same barrel profile but one is 14.5 and one is 16”. You can def feel a difference but hard to describe. The v11 actually felt better but that’s attributed to the much lighter handguard.
I think it’s just flip a coin at this point. Won’t make much of a difference.
It will make a difference if you ever decide you want/or need to change the handguard, gas block or muzzle device. Another thought... If you go with the warcomp and labor to pin it you may as well do a 12 1/2 barrel and SBR it. Close to the same money.
If your doing a 14.5 a better choice is a 13.7 with a warcomp or the SOLGW nox.
13.7 with a 13” hand guard.
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I’m 6’ and recently tried my first 16” upper. I hated it. 14.5s and shorter for me.
1.5” made that much of a difference?
1.5” made that much of a difference?
1.5” is going to make a 10 page thread.
If your doing a 14.5 a better choice is a 13.7 with a warcomp or the SOLGW nox.
13.7 with a 13” hand guard.
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This is also a solid choice and keeps a lot of silencer options open.
1.5” made that much of a difference?
It did to me. I'm 6' and while not a beast, I'm not a little bitch either. It just felt awkwardly long. The bigger difference to me isn't 1.5" at the muzzle, its two inches on the handguard. I don't like handguards that aren't extended all the way out, so I won't ever buy a 13 on a 16 gun, but the 15 handguard felt significantly longer and a bit heavier than the 13s I'm always used to. So 14.5 for me. Once you know what MD you want, pinning really isn't a big deal IMO.
Walker_Texasranger
10-19-19, 22:53
Man you guy keep flipping me back and forth. One second I’m ready to check out with a 16” and then a new reply gets posted and I’m like well damn the 14.5 is the way to go.
Get the 14.5 w/13in handguard, pin the Votrex or WARCOMP onto it and don't look back.
Solved.
It did to me. I'm 6' and while not a beast, I'm not a little bitch either. It just felt awkwardly long. The bigger difference to me isn't 1.5" at the muzzle, its two inches on the handguard. I don't like handguards that aren't extended all the way out, so I won't ever buy a 13 on a 16 gun, but the 15 handguard felt significantly longer and a bit heavier than the 13s I'm always used to. So 14.5 for me. Once you know what MD you want, pinning really isn't a big deal IMO.
Thanks for the reply and feedback, both are much appreciated.
Between the options in the OP, I would get the 14.5 MCMR upper with the P&W warcomp. I prefer 14.5" ARs over 16". When comparing 14.5 and 16 inch barrels I don't think that the 14.5 has much of a disadvantage at all. I also think 14.5 looks better (dumb I know, whatever).
Now if it were me I would build my own upper and throw a surefire closed tine warcomp on there and have a local smith do the P&W. I know that isnt an option in your post, but figured Id say it....Heres a pic because...guns...
https://i.imgur.com/UyQkMxA.jpg
Walker_Texasranger
10-20-19, 17:45
^^^ what about the Surefire brake? I’m hearing the Warcomp May drive the gun too far down which I don’t want. I know the comp would suck indoors but I could throw on a Warden for indoors.
I have both (a BCM 14.5" ELW and 16" BFH ELW). Both have the 13" rail. The 14.5" one has the A2X FH perm-attached. The weight difference between the two is not a factor (one ounce!), the biggest factor being that they are both the ELW profile.
If I had to choose between the two I would grab the 16", simply for the modicum of velocity advantage over the 14.5". It will translate into a slightly better ballistic advantage for a negligible weight increase. Secondarily, the ability to change things around without gunsmithing a pin/weld job is a plus. IMHO a suppressor on either a 14.5" or 16" barrel makes it musket-like so I'd save that for a 12.5" or less length barrel (just my opinion of course).
YMMV.
I'd go with a 14.5 and a pinned SF brake/4prong/warcomp
That 14.5 will do it all while running a shorter hand guard to boot.
^^^ what about the Surefire brake? I’m hearing the Warcomp May drive the gun too far down which I don’t want. I know the comp would suck indoors but I could throw on a Warden for indoors.
I don't have experience shooting the standard WarComp, but that was my impression with the closed tine variant. I think people like the standard more, so I'm not sure if that is a concern with that model. If you're leaning towards a comp, I'd get BCM's. Its not quite as comp-y as the Surefire but still works very well. The Surefire is going to rock some shit and as was said above, if you've never put a can on a 14.5/16, its not super fun. I like the notion of being able to, but honestly am not sure that I ever would again.
Standard Warcomp didn’t seem to drive down the barrel with my 12.5. Haven’t installed the closed time Warcomp on anything yet; however, it is designed to be ‘neutrally’ timed apparently, so all ports forcing downward. I may, if possible, adjust to be similar to my standard Warcomp. In other words, I may try to time it slightly up and to the right.
Standard Warcomp didn’t seem to drive down the barrel with my 12.5. Haven’t installed the closed time Warcomp on anything yet; however, it is designed to be ‘neutrally’ timed apparently, so all ports forcing downward. I may, if possible, adjust to be similar to my standard Warcomp. In other words, I may try to time it slightly up and to the right.
I’d be curious to hear your thoughts since you have both. I’m not positive my one closed tone drives it down, I just know that the recoil impulse is different and other people have said that. I’m used to shooting BCM comps so it’s possible that the warcomp is just less comp-y. I don’t have enough time on mine to know for sure.
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Once I get it mounted, I’ll see about a difference. Tentatively thinking about mounting on a longer barrel though, so won’t be apples to apples.
Walker_Texasranger
10-20-19, 22:44
So after all this back and forth the possibility of driving the muzzle down with the Warcomp makes it a no-go.
So it’s either A2X or Surefire brake and this point. Worried about concussion with the brake though.
Still way overthinking this.
Here’s the simple solution to the indecision over a muzzle device: Buy the darn 16” barrel. Try out a couple muzzle devices, ACTUALLY SHOOTING THEM, and then figure out what you like.
If after that, you still wanted a 1” shorter barrel, sell the upper or barrel and get a 14.5” pinned.
Seriously. Just buy the 16”. In no way will you regret it. It is the easy button. If you want something shorter later, you can SBR and get a second, much shorter upper.
Seriously. Just buy the 16”. In no way will you regret it. It is the easy button. If you want something shorter later, you can SBR and get a second, much shorter upper.
Well, I regretted it. Also the market is weak AF so selling mine was not easy. This may be the only time I’d advocate a 16” with 13” rail. Play with MDs and then chop the barrel along with P/W once you find one you like.
OP, why not consider the BCM comp? If you’re considering the A2, you’re not 100% set on using a SF can so might as well consider their comp.
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I have 5 14.5" barrels and 10+ 16" barrels. I couldn't tell you a difference when I shoot them. The only thing that factors in is what profile they are(i.e. LW,Gov't,Hvy). YMMV
556BlackRifle
10-21-19, 09:50
I have both. My advice is to go 16. Much easier to switch out components in the future and the difference between the two (to me) isn't worth the hassell. If you want a shorter barrel go the SBR route and configure it however you want. If you change your mind later, no big deal swapping things around.
Walker_Texasranger
10-21-19, 13:06
Ended up ordering 14.5 BFH ELW with 13” MCMR and pinned BCM Comp Mod 1.
You will not be disappointed.
titsonritz
10-21-19, 13:13
I also have both and would recommend sticking with a 16" if you are undecided, I would only do/recommend 14.5/P&W if you know specifically what you want.
Ended up ordering 14.5 BFH ELW with 13” MCMR and pinned BCM Comp Mod 1.
Nice. I need one too.
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Ended up ordering 14.5 BFH ELW with 13” MCMR and pinned BCM Comp Mod 1.
Thank goodness, this thread can finally end! :alcoholic:
Walker_Texasranger
10-21-19, 19:41
Thank goodness, this thread can finally end! :alcoholic:
You’re so cool.
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