Sig 220

[PYRO31888]

Anyone ever shot or have one? What do you think about it?

[SingleStacker45]

I have had both the standard model and the SAO target. Very reliable and accurate. Comming from the 1911 world I had a hard time not holding down the slide lock due to my high grip. Slide would rarely lock open on the last round. Ultimately drove me nuts hearing all those clicks and I sold them.

Mule

[PYRO31888]

Its pretty much a mix between a 226 and a 1911 (beavertail version) correct?

[mattjmcd]

I've shot many a 220, but do not one any. I think the most apt comparo is to the 226, but in .45ACP.

[Don Robison]

My 220 is one of my favorites. Being a lefty I don't have the issues with the slide lock that many do. It's accurate and reliable.

[John Hearne]

I've posted this elsewhere about the P220:

I have to carry a Sig due to employer mandate. We get to choose which model/caliber and are authorized to carry personally owned guns which I do. I've been carrying P220s for almost ten years now. I've owned a classic West German P220, P220ST(1st generation w/ skinny rail), P220ST (with standard rail), P220ST Elite, a P245, and two P220 Match guns that I used for parts.

I think that the Elite line of pistols are worth every dime extra that they cost. In fact, the pistol on my side right now is a P220ST Elite.

As noted above the short reset trigger is a vast improvment. When you combine it with an overtravel stop, it has a reset that is shorter than a Glock. If is infinitely shootable.

As soon as I received mine, I removed the rosewood grips and sold them for $150 to subsidize my purchase. The pistol currently wears the new THIN P220 grips that Sig released.

The beavertail is hit or miss. For me, with my hand size, it is perfect. I never had any problems with slide bite but have found that the beavertail sits the gun slightly deeper in my hand. Your mileage may vary.

The real issue with the P220 is durability/longevity. I have had a bunch of part breakages over the years in my guns and the ones I maintain at work. I am convinced that the P220 is a 15,000 round gun. Asking anything more is a crap shoot. At 15,000 rounds you need to buy a new pistol and sell the old one or relegate it to "training gun" status.

I'd highly recommend replacing the springs at proper intervals and "upgrading" to the takedown lever that comes standard in the Combat model. I've broken two standard takedown levers and they take the gun out of action. The Combat lever fixes this.

[PYRO31888]

Ill be honest .. when i held the 220 today i was like ... omg ... :eek: (it was like finding a key for a hole ... and it fits.) I just have to look at it more .. im not sure i like the bulkyness.. but what do you think about the GSR .. or rather should i get the 220 over the 1911. People say the 220 is a step up from a 1911.

And i doubt i will ever shoot 15,000 round threw it.

[Don Robison]

Ill be honest .. when i held the 220 today i was like ... omg ... :eek: (it was like finding a key for a hole ... and it fits.) I just have to look at it more .. im not sure i like the bulkyness.. but what do you think about the GSR .. or rather should i get the 220 over the 1911. People say the 220 is a step up from a 1911.

And i doubt i will ever shoot 15,000 round threw it.


I know the feeling. I won't comment on the bulkiness since my EDC/CCW is a G21SF.:D I carried a 1911s from 88 until switching primarily to Glocks in 02-03 and think the 220 is a viable economic option to a quality reliable 1911. I still own several 1911s they just don't get carried or used much anymore.



YMMV

[jawbreaker5]

I've carried one on duty for the past 22 years.
First one had I figure I put about 30K rounds through it before I sold it for a newer version.
Excellent weapon. Also have a 228. Can't go wrong with either of them.

[PYRO31888]

see i want the nice long narrow look of the 1911 ... and i can get a beavertail with the 220 so ... idk either way i go ill probably end up getting a sig 1911 ... i wanted one first ... but by tomorrow ill want the 1911 again. Thats just how it is.

[ToddG]

My comments from an earlier thread:


For those who don't know already, as background I was the fed/mil guy at SIG for five years (2002-2007). During that time, I carried a P220 on and off, total of probably 18 months or so.

It's hard for me to say that one model or design was the "most" problematic, primarily because I had, for instance, tens of thousands of customers using the P229R-40-DAK and only maybe a thousand using the P220 in any variant. However, I was usually privy to what other major LE agencies were going through, and certainly when major agencies dropped their P220s or SIGs in general.

These are my thoughts, take them for what they're worth:
The P220, as the oldest SIG P22x-series gun, has been through a number of revisions. The frame was beefed up considerably in the 90's. The slide design was completely changed a few years ago. Many of the internal parts have been updated over time, too. (it's worth noting that none of this is particularly unusual in the industry)
No one should be surprised that two essentially identical guns, one in 9mm and one in 45 Auto, would have different lifecycles. The 45 is putting much more stress on the gun. (see, e.g., the recent thread on .40-cal Glocks as compared to their 9mm brethren)
Some P220s now come with the "competition" takedown lever, which is substantially beefed up over the regular one. The "competition" version is identifiable by having a dot inside a circle on the side opposite the paddel; standard ones are flat. I examined a number of P220 variants at a local gun shop the other day and there didn't seem to be any consistency in how the parts are assigned to various models. One exception is the P220 Combat, which have always come with the competition takedown lever. In my experience, the standard version breaks anywhere from 15-25k and renders the gun completely dead. I never put that many rounds through a competition version but based on what the engineering department told me, they survived 30k tests for the Combat.
For the old style slides with the roll pins, it's important to replace the pins at least every 5k rounds. This is true for all SIG P22x-series guns with two-part slides. Otherwise, over time, the breech block will get loose, the slide will lose stiffness, and the steel slide will flex against the aluminum frame. This frequently results in frame cracks. Plenty of people have gone tens of thousands of rounds with their SIGs by replacing these pins.
For the new style one-piece stainless slides (identifiable by the solid firing pin positioning pin instead of the dual roll pins in the slide), the biggest gremlin has been the extractor. There have been problems since day one. I was actually one of the last people to believe there was a problem (mea culpa) because my personal P220ST -- the first model to use this slide and extractor -- went over 18,500 rounds before it suffered its first extraction failure. But many people had problems much earlier. Ernest Langdon used to put extractors in his kitchen oven to heat treat them better, and even then he was replacing them every 3k or so to maintain reliability. SIG lost some major and minor LE contracts over the problem. Various fixes have been tried over the years (better heat treat QC, better dimensional QC, etc) but recently SIG finally switched to an external extractor like the ones found on all other stainless slide P22x-series guns. I haven't even handled one in person but hopefully this will put the extraction issues to bed.
The second P220ST I got (in 2006) had multiple failures to go into battery. After 550 rounds, I sent it back. I instead began using a P220R (which had the same type slide) and had two stoppages in about 4,500 rounds. If not for costs of ammo and mag capacity, I probably would have kept carrying it. It ran very well and was, of course, as accurate as I could ever hope to be with a handgun.
My personal experience with the SAO mechanism was negative; I personally wouldn't use one.
The P220, as many have said, is an almost magically accurate pistol.
The mags have also gone through some changes. The original 7rd mags were fine. Then there was a demand for 8rd, so the first bandaid was to shove eight rounds into the 7rd tube; that was a disaster. Then a slightly extended genuine 8rd magazine was created. It worked fine for standard pressure ammo and some (not all) +p ammo. The real problem was that the top round would move forward under recoil, and the mags would not drop free if the gun had been fired. SIG didn't think this was important enough to change when Ernest Langdon and I raised the issue in early 2003. Once the JCP program (SOCOM .45) picked up speed, some military people commented to SIG that the failure of the mags to drop free might be a problem and so suddenly everyone was running around screaming "Why didn't someone warn us about this sooner!" :rolleyes: SIG then redesigned the 8rd mags with a little dimple below the feed lips to keep the top round in place. This also resolved issues that some departments, such as Henricho Co. VA, were having (Henricho still switched to .40-cal Glocks, though, as the fix didn't happen soon enough).
FWIW, I've found the factory 10rd magazines to be as reliable and durable as the 8rd.
Prior to the HK45 and M&P45, the P220 would have been my first pic in a forty-five. A random box-stock P220 is certainly more reliable than a random box-stock 1911. While it may need more attention and TLC than a P226 in 9mm, it requires less than a 1911.
When I test-fired the first M&P45 prototype in the summer of '06, I immediately sent my boss at SIG an email from my Blackberry that ended with, "We're in big trouble." :cool:

I would have to say that I've probably seen more P220-carrying agencies switch to another brand over the past six years, though, than have switched away from any other SIG model. I don't think that's all because of reliability/durability issues, but certainly that was the case in some instances.

Reading back through this, I realized I forgot to mention the first P220 I ever owned, which was bought years before I got into the firearms industry. I don't have the records in front of me, but that gun (which used the old style slide with the new upgraded frame and hammer) failed at around 2,500 rounds I want to say (give or take maybe 1k). The hammer rebound spring broke and dislodged itself, shutting the gun down. It was a quick fix for an armorer (which I was not, at the time).

[Steve in PA]

I own two P220's....a two-tone and a blued version.

I have a lot more than 15k rounds through the two-tone. It still runs like the first day it was fired.

[D.O.B.A]

I just bought a used P220 a few weeks ago. According to the Stampings on the gun, and the information learned on this site, it was built in 1995. I was looking for an "older" West Germany 220, because of the "issues of quality" as of late with Sigs. I have had it to the Range Twice with 200 rounds fired each trip. It has performed flawlessly, and is very accurate at 25 yards!

[Rinspeed]

I've shot thousands of rounds through two of them without single malfunction, a broken trigger return spring at round 1600 on one of them though.

[SingleStacker45]

I know the feeling. I won't comment on the bulkiness since my EDC/CCW is a G21SF.:D I carried a 1911s from 88 until switching primarily to Glocks in 02-03 and think the 220 is a viable economic option to a quality reliable 1911. I still own several 1911s they just don't get carried or used much anymore.



YMMV

I'm with you on that one. My last 220 was the target and it got traded for the g21SF. I really feel better about the capacity. Now that being said I was weened on single stack 1911's and they are awesome if you get a reliable one. If you can get past the grip size I would recomend the 21SF. If not take a look at the H&K 45. Ten rounds and the grip feels just as good as the Sig220. Probably cost you about half as much as a good 1911.

Mule

[Seth Harness]

I looked at alot of pistols before I bought my P220. Extremely comfortable, it just fit great. When I first held it I knew I was going to buy one. As earlier mentioned, I to have an issue with the slide catch. I just saw in one of my new gun zines that a company called "Robar", I think it was, customized one. It looks like they simply bent the slide catch up so ones thumb would go under it as opposed to on top of it. Im going to try bending it up here in the shop and see how that works for me. All and All I like it alot, very accurate and very comfortable.

[PYRO31888]

As i held it .. If i buy it .. then ill be able to say "it was love at first sight" :D

[Medicine Calf]

IMO the 220 per se is the best DA/SA 45 acp on the market. Folded slides only.

[Shark]

P220 Combat. I love it! Almost 1,500 trouble free rounds downrange.
Most of those were shot through an unclean (dirty) gun. :)
It's equipped with phosphated internals, as well as a external extractor.

If .45 ammo were cheaper I would shoot it more often than my 226 in 9.
It just feels "right" in the hand. :cool:

[bauer007]

My 92 FS needs a "big brother" to keep him company in the nightstand? I've shot a buddy's and it felt great. Anything negative anyone knows of?

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

Great gun. I have had several. During the 80s and 90s it was the go to .45 for folks who didn't want to tinker with 1911s.

[bauer007]

Thanks Mr. Bell. I'm sure after about 2 more weekends of my Uncle Sam making me an offer I can't refuse I'll have the scratch for it......."drafted".....again.

[ToddG]

One of many lengthy & detailed discussions about the P220's pros and cons ...

http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=21847

[loupav]

I can't say that I have too many rounds down range with mine. But I have taken a ITTS pistol class with mine. There were people there with Kimber Jam-o-matics and I was very happy with my Sig P220ST not failing once.

As a matter of fact the only time I saw my P220 jam was when I was using Pro Mags. They were later given away and no problems since.

I have two P220's. A P220 blued and P220ST. I love my P220ST so much, I'd consider buying another one. but the P220 I can never get rid of. It was a gift from my dad.