new to this forum and newbie question! (what ammo for LE6920)

[Patriotne12]

I joined the Military in 1980 and spent 8 years as a Military cop and we were issued the old M-16 probably hand me downs from the Vietnam War! Any way I'm an ole goat now and finally got me a Colt LE6920 Socom with the 16" barrel and KAC rail! Believe it or not I haven't fired an AR since the 80's! I want to take it to the range or friends land and practice but want to know what a good brand of ammo to get for practicing!n I do have a ammo box with FEDERAL AMMUNITION
green tip XM855 5.56 62gr, but thats for home defense lol!

If you don't mind recommending a few good quality ammo suggestions for practice I'de appreciate it!

[lsllc]

That’s a terrible home defense round. Use the green tip to practice till it’s gone. Then switch to an M193 clone for practice.

Buy a round dedicated for home defense. I’d consider Gold Dot or even TAP.


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[gaijin]

Wolf Gold 55 gr. FMJ for range use to a couple hundred yds.

PMC X-TAC 5.56 55 gr. is supposedly a m193 clone, I have shot it to 400 yds with ranging reticles designed for m193 and it was close to the 300/400 yd. ticks.

Both are reasonably priced if bought in case lots.
Try SGAmmo, they're consistently one of the cheapest.

And yes on the m855 sucking for home defense.......

[bad107]

i like the AE223 bulk boxes of 1000 rounds

[jdonovan]

depending on your local range, M855 might not be welcomed there, as it can be hard on backstops. M193, being a more conventional FMJ design and non-magnetic may be more welcomed.

For HD/SD there are MANY better choices than the 193/855 mil-spec stuff.You are not in the Army and subject to their ammo restrictions, find an expanding projectile that your rifle likes and your wallet will tolerate. Speer Gold dot/Hornady TAP/Federal Fusion, round out my short list recommendations.

[Patriotne12]

Thanks for all the great response and good info!

[markm]

To say that M855 sucks for home defense isn't giving the full story. M855 sucks at everything. :D

Any OTM or Bonded bullet is going to be a good defensive option. The heavier the better for me. I like 77 gr OTMs a lot.

[Patriotne12]

To say that M855 sucks for home defense isn't giving the full story. M855 sucks at everything. :D

Any OTM or Bonded bullet is going to be a good defensive option. The heavier the better for me. I like 77 gr OTMs a lot.

dumb question, what is OTM and you best brand?

also Should I just keep the case of 400 Federal green tip, for extra ammo then, I doubt any range in San Antonio are will let me use it!

thanks

[jdonovan]

dumb question, what is OTM and you best brand?

OTM - open tip match

I will take a different stance than the other person, and I do not believe OTM is the best design for short distance personal/home defense. OTM has some consistency of performance problems, which we generally don't find in the ammunition that is specifically marketed to deer hunting/personal defense.

When you find the OTM rounds compared against other ammo, it is usually the m193/xm855. Rarely do you see it compared against the bonded/expanding defense rounds.

There is a person you can find on some of the forums DocGKR, who probably has more ar-15 balistics/wounding than most people here, and he has said numerous times, that the OTM is a much better choice for the military who are prohibited from using expanding ammo. But of you are a civilian, or a LE officer and can use expanding ammo, then there are better choices available than the OTM offerings.



Should I just keep the case of 400 Federal green tip, for extra ammo then, I doubt any range in San Antonio are will let me use it!


I wouldn't just throw it away ;) But expect that you may have to search a bit to find a place that will let you use it.

[sl4mdaddy]

Wolf Gold 55 gr. FMJ for range use to a couple hundred yds.

PMC X-TAC 5.56 55 gr. is supposedly a m193 clone, I have shot it to 400 yds with ranging reticles designed for m193 and it was close to the 300/400 yd. ticks.

Both are reasonably priced if bought in case lots.
Try SGAmmo, they're consistently one of the cheapest.

And yes on the m855 sucking for home defense.......

Another vote for SGAmmo as well.

[Patriotne12]

Thanks

So for Home Defense what would be you favorite round and make!

For Range practice can you recommend a good round and make!

Thanks!

[lsllc]

Home defense: Speer Gold Dot, Barnes TSX, Hornady TAP

Range use: any 193 clone.

I think we are being redundant here.


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[Patriotne12]

Home defense: Speer Gold Dot, Barnes TSX, Hornady TAP

Range use: any 193 clone.

I think we are being redundant here.

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Got it, thanks and sorry for the redundancy, I'm a little redundant as well as a bit off, :cool:

[markm]

There's good bonded ammo out there. I however prefer the fragmentation approach that you'll get from OTM bullets. You're not really going to go wrong with either.

I've tested it myself, but additionally, Black Hills sent me the penetration charts. For me, I like frag for reduced over-penetration, as well as remarkable performance out of shorter barrels.

The thing I like about Mk 262 style ammo is that you can shoot it for CQB all the way out to 1000 yards and more.... all with the same round. The black hills TMK bullet (by the way) also fragments brilliantly.

[1168]

Since you have that other thread asking about the P4Xi, I’ll point out that with a 16” barrel, Frontier 68gr 5.56 follows its reticle perfectly out to 600yds, with the center dot being 200yds, and a 1.9” mount. I’m sure that any other 68/69gr 5.56 will also do well.

Fusion MSR 62 is in my HD mags. With the rifle zeroed for 68gr 5.56, its POI is close enough, as is Vort-Tx 70gr.

[Patriotne12]

There's good bonded ammo out there. I however prefer the fragmentation approach that you'll get from OTM bullets. You're not really going to go wrong with either.

I've tested it myself, but additionally, Black Hills sent me the penetration charts. For me, I like frag for reduced over-penetration, as well as remarkable performance out of shorter barrels.

The thing I like about Mk 262 style ammo is that you can shoot it for CQB all the way out to 1000 yards and more.... all with the same round. The black hills TMK bullet (by the way) also fragments brilliantly.

Thanks for the response!

[Patriotne12]

Since you have that other thread asking about the P4Xi, I’ll point out that with a 16” barrel, Frontier 68gr 5.56 follows its reticle perfectly out to 600yds, with the center dot being 200yds, and a 1.9” mount. I’m sure that any other 68/69gr 5.56 will also do well.

Fusion MSR 62 is in my HD mags. With the rifle zeroed for 68gr 5.56, its POI is close enough, as is Vort-Tx 70gr.


Thanks for the info

[Patriotne12]

May get one of the 3 for range and HD

https://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/products2.cfm/ID/141302

https://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/products2.cfm/ID/128504

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1001674976

[Uni-Vibe]

Don't squander money on "self defense" 5.56 ammo. It's all marketing hype. M193 will do a number on home invaders.

[markm]

Don't squander money on "self defense" 5.56 ammo. It's all marketing hype. M193 will do a number on home invaders.

This is a joke right? Mk 262 vs M193 isn't even close. Sure a 55 gr ball round placed well will drop someone. But even out of a 20" gun, fragmentation isn't reliable.

I can't SME on the wound cavity and all that jazz, but I've read enough of the expert info to know it's way more than marketing hype.

[1168]

Don't squander money on "self defense" 5.56 ammo. It's all marketing hype. M193 will do a number on home invaders.

I can accept that you prefer ball ammo, and we can agree to disagree. But when you give advice like this, I must ask that you cite your sources, please.

[markm]

I can accept that you prefer ball ammo, and we can agree to disagree. But when you give advice like this, I must ask that you cite your sources, please.

I agree. I mean.. an AR full of m193 beats any pistol or shotgun, but I've never seen any reliable source site M193 on par with OTM or Bonded.

[BuzzinSATX]

...I doubt any range in San Antonio are will let me use it!



Probably no indoor ranges for sure.

You can shoot it at ranges that have dirt berms as backstops and no metal targets. Cedar Ridge Range on FM1863 in Bulverde is one example. Call around



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[Patriotne12]

Thanks Bud!

whats you go too HD round!

[BuzzinSATX]

whats you go too HD round!

I have several magazines loaded with this:

https://www.sgammo.com/product/223-556mm-ammo/200-round-case-223-rem-55-grain-psp-soft-point-ammo-fiocchi-223b

If looking for something available locally, look for 55-62 grain hunting bullets like Federal Fusion or Hornady. I’m in the process of replacing my 55 grain PSP HD rounds with heavier bullets at least 62 grains.

Fusions are good and can be had locally:

https://www.sgammo.com/product/223-556mm-ammo/200-round-case-223-rem-62-grain-soft-point-federal-fusion-msr-ammo-f223msr1

I am probably going to order some of this Hornady FTX and see how it shoots:

https://www.sgammo.com/product/223-556mm-ammo/200-round-case-223-rem-73-grain-ftx-hornady-critical-defense-rifle-ammo-80260

To be honest, any .223 /5.56 ammo will do a number on a body. But I do believe heavier is better, all things equal.

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[BuzzinSATX]

If you are looking for an opportunity to shoot that new blaster in a fun match, check out the IDPA match held on the first Saturday of every month at Cedar Ridge Range on FM1863 in Bulverde. You can shoot those green tips to n the match.

Sign up is 0900, and we shoot at 1000. Usually done around 1300. Great mix of older and young shooters, some kids shoot too.

The first Saturday is a carbine/rifle match of moving and shooting. Lots of fun. Bring 150 rounds of ammo, several magazines, and I suggest a sling on your gun. You can shoot optic or iron sights. No target is farther than 25 yards or so.

Cost is $25 and beginners are welcome with open arms. The carbine matches have stages with transitions from rifle to handgun and vice versa, but you can shoot just a rifle, just a pistol, or both, depending on the scenario.

Search “Texas Tactical carbine IDPA Cedar Ridge” on YouTube. Here is a pretty good example I found of a couple guys having some fun shooting the match on a cold January day...

https://youtu.be/uFGYDn_CQLg


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[Patriotne12]

thanks so much, Appreciate it!

[Uni-Vibe]

I can accept that you prefer ball ammo, and we can agree to disagree. But when you give advice like this, I must ask that you cite your sources, please.

Ask a VC.

[Patriotne12]

If you are looking for an opportunity to shoot that new blaster in a fun match, check out the IDPA match held on the first Saturday of every month at Cedar Ridge Range on FM1863 in Bulverde. You can shoot those green tips to n the match.

Sign up is 0900, and we shoot at 1000. Usually done around 1300. Great mix of older and young shooters, some kids shoot too.

The first Saturday is a carbine/rifle match of moving and shooting. Lots of fun. Bring 150 rounds of ammo, several magazines, and I suggest a sling on your gun. You can shoot optic or iron sights. No target is farther than 25 yards or so.

Cost is $25 and beginners are welcome with open arms. The carbine matches have stages with transitions from rifle to handgun and vice versa, but you can shoot just a rifle, just a pistol, or both, depending on the scenario.

Search “Texas Tactical carbine IDPA Cedar Ridge” on YouTube. Here is a pretty good example I found of a couple guys having some fun shooting the match on a cold January day...

https://youtu.be/uFGYDn_CQLg


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WOW,

Found this

http://www.cedarridgerange.com/IDPA___Texas_Tactical.html

I saw the Youtube video, those guys are pro's! I'll needs baby steps but I'll get there! I'll feel kinda weird cause I'll need to start all over again!


thanks for the invite and great info, I havent shot an AR since the 80's so I'm green as can be so I'll need a few pointed and reminders when I get out there, Hope there are some helping hands, :cool:

Thanks

Michael
San Antonio!

[AndyLate]

IMHO, 90 rounds (three loaded 30 rd mags) of home defense ammo on hand is adequate. No need to spend a fortune stocking up on HD ammo initially. Limiting your initial purchase to 120 rounds (90 to load, 30 to confirm zero and function) allows you to pick a premium round for defense.

I'm not qualified to argue OTM vs bonded soft points, but any 55gr+ soft, hollow, or open tip ammo is superior to ball ammo for home defense.

I use brass cased M193 (55gr 5.56 ball) for general purpose shooting - it seems to offer the most "bang for the buck". Brass cased .223 55gr fmj is fine too. Green Tip/M855 (62gr FMJ/penetrator) doesn't bring anything to the table for me, although I will buy and shoot it when the price is right.

I am paranoid and like to keep 800+ rounds of M193 on hand.

Andy

P.S. I'm sure you are aware of this, but your 6920 has 1/7" twist rifling and will stabilize 50 to 77 grain bullets. Colt SOCOM barrels have an excellent accuracy reputation, and you picked a fine carbine.

[lsllc]

Ask a VC.

And lots of people were killed by .22s and .30 carbines...or even 30 cal lead balls from front-stuffers. That doesn’t mean that will be my choice. Having seen the frequency of failure to stop with 55 gr FMJs from 5.56 first-hand on actual mammals, I’ll pass. There is a significant difference. If a better option is available to me, I will select it.


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[Patriotne12]

IMHO, 90 rounds (three loaded 30 rd mags) of home defense ammo on hand is adequate. No need to spend a fortune stocking up on HD ammo initially. Limiting your initial purchase to 120 rounds (90 to load, 30 to confirm zero and function) allows you to pick a premium round for defense.

I'm not qualified to argue OTM vs bonded soft points, but any 55gr+ soft, hollow, or open tip ammo is superior to ball ammo for home defense.

I use brass cased M193 (55gr 5.56 ball) for general purpose shooting - it seems to offer the most "bang for the buck". Brass cased .223 55gr fmj is fine too. Green Tip/M855 (62gr FMJ/penetrator) doesn't bring anything to the table for me, although I will buy and shoot it when the price is right.

I am paranoid and like to keep 800+ rounds of M193 on hand.

Andy

P.S. I'm sure you are aware of this, but your 6920 has 1/7" twist rifling and will stabilize 50 to 77 grain bullets. Colt SOCOM barrels have an excellent accuracy reputation, and you picked a fine carbine.

Thanks for sharing the good info!

So you keep the 193 ball ammo on hand 800+

Just for info, with my socom barrel what 50-70 grain HD ammo would you pick fit the 3 mags at 30 rounds and 30 to confirm? Sorry but what is OTM!

Thanks

[lsllc]

Thanks for sharing the good info!

So you keep the 193 ball ammo on hand 800+

Just for info, with my socom barrel what 50-70 grain HD ammo would you pick fit the 3 mags at 30 rounds and 30 to confirm? Sorry but what is OTM!

Thanks

Go back and read your own thread. People have already answered your question as to what OTM is.


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[1168]

Ask a VC.

So you have no data. Roger.

[AndyLate]

Thanks for sharing the good info!

So you keep the 193 ball ammo on hand 800+

Just for info, with my socom barrel what 50-70 grain HD ammo would you pick fit the 3 mags at 30 rounds and 30 to confirm? Sorry but what is OTM!

Thanks

OTM is Open Tip Match.

FWIW, I keep a few 30 round mags loaded with IMI 5.56 77gr OTM for defense. I picked them up because they were less costly than Black Hills 77gr OTM. Like I said, I am not qualified to advise or recommend HD ammo. Don't over think it, though.

I keep the ball ammo on hand in case I want/need to do high volume shooting without advance notice and to offset ammo shortages. Also for zombie attacks.

Andy

[ST911]

.223 and 5.56 rifle ammunition has such velocity, energy, and effect that at close distances it's almost hard to make a bad choice. However, widely available data makes it easy to make better choices. Where unobstructed shots are expected and penetration of backstops and downrange hazards are of greatest concern, a lighter weight, lightly jacketed rapidly expanding varmint, OTM/HP, or some JSPs are a choice. If you expect barriers get stouter bullet construction like bonded SPs and copper solids, and certain heavier JSPs and OTMs.

Service ammunition in common use, subject to terminal ballistic testing, conducted to standard, and meeting recognized performance standards, offers the greatest flexibility and defenseability. Learn what your ammo does, to what, and when. Practice with it and place it accurately on target.

People use the label "M193" a lot. Remember that M193 is a particular round with an established specification and accountability. Most of what people call M193...isn't. It's 55 ball of some sort. I have used genuine and imitation M193, but learning occurred and I choose better.

Most manufacturer websites publish lab-grade gel shots and data on their LE/defense loads. Vista, Winchester, Hornady, Black Hills all have gel data online for viewing, and some will disclose more on particular rounds if you call and ask about a particular need.

[1168]

.223 and 5.56 rifle ammunition has such velocity, energy, and effect that at close distances it's almost hard to make a bad choice. However, widely available data makes it easy to make better choices. Where unobstructed shots are expected and penetration of backstops and downrange hazards are of greatest concern, a lighter weight, lightly jacketed rapidly expanding varmint, OTM/HP, or some JSPs are a choice. If you expect barriers get stouter bullet construction like bonded SPs and copper solids, and certain heavier JSPs and OTMs.

Service ammunition in common use, subject to terminal ballistic testing, conducted to standard, and meeting recognized performance standards, offers the greatest flexibility and defenseability. Learn what your ammo does, to what, and when. Practice with it and place it accurately on target.

People use the label "M193" a lot. Remember that M193 is a particular round with an established specification and accountability. Most of what people call M193...isn't. It's 55 ball of some sort. I have used genuine and imitation M193, but learning occurred and I choose better.

Most manufacturer websites publish lab-grade gel shots and data on their LE/defense loads. Vista, Winchester, Hornady, Black Hills all have gel data online for viewing, and some will disclose more on particular rounds if you call and ask about a particular need.

Concur. I couldn’t have said it better.

[Patriotne12]

Go back and read your own thread. People have already answered your question as to what OTM is.


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My bad, I'm a little slow in my ole age, :p

Really appreciate it!

Thanks Andy!


.223 and 5.56 rifle ammunition has such velocity, energy, and effect that at close distances it's almost hard to make a bad choice. However, widely available data makes it easy to make better choices. Where unobstructed shots are expected and penetration of backstops and downrange hazards are of greatest concern, a lighter weight, lightly jacketed rapidly expanding varmint, OTM/HP, or some JSPs are a choice. If you expect barriers get stouter bullet construction like bonded SPs and copper solids, and certain heavier JSPs and OTMs.

Service ammunition in common use, subject to terminal ballistic testing, conducted to standard, and meeting recognized performance standards, offers the greatest flexibility and defenseability. Learn what your ammo does, to what, and when. Practice with it and place it accurately on target.

People use the label "M193" a lot. Remember that M193 is a particular round with an established specification and accountability. Most of what people call M193...isn't. It's 55 ball of some sort. I have used genuine and imitation M193, but learning occurred and I choose better.

Most manufacturer websites publish lab-grade gel shots and data on their LE/defense loads. Vista, Winchester, Hornady, Black Hills all have gel data online for viewing, and some will disclose more on particular rounds if you call and ask about a particular need.

What a great response and thanks for all the good info!

[Uni-Vibe]

So you have no data. Roger.

I've seen the forensics on a couple of 55 grain ball shootings, both fatalities. Including x rays. 55 grain ball exhibits great fragmentation and adequate penetration before fragmentation. Makes very nasty damage.

[lsllc]

I've seen the forensics on a couple of 55 grain ball shootings, both fatalities. Including x rays. 55 grain ball exhibits great fragmentation and adequate penetration before fragmentation. Makes very nasty damage.

So you’ve seen some anecdotal evidence. Cool. You should also look at the anecdotal evidence of times the 55 gr ball shit the bed.


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[markm]

So you’ve seen some anecdotal evidence. Cool. You should also look at the anecdotal evidence of times the 55 gr ball shit the bed.


Agreed. 55 gr ball is a crap shoot. With the OTMs, I found you had to slow them down to around transonic to get them to fail to frag, and even then, they turned sideways and traveled through the target. (unscientific water tests... but interesting to compare things)

[ubet]

I load all my own ammo. Sd and practice. I have two mags loaded with nosler 62gr bonded, a few with Barnes tsx. But honestly they’re down in the reloading room, that hasn’t gotten set up since our move, on a shelf. My ar sitting next to the bed I’m laying in is loaded with nosler 77gr ccs. I had this master plan of having 1000 rounds loaded with the nosler or Barnes on hand at all times on top of my loaded normal use stuff. But in all honesty, I’m too lazy to switch mags out for different circumstances. My 77ccs will hit accurately to 700yds if I do my part. So I know I can put rounds on target up close.

You can wade through all this data of bullets, penetration and whatever. What it comes down to is, does your gun like it, is your gun loaded, can you hit what you’re aiming at? Only exception in my feeble mind is fmj, I wont run it. Passed that don’t get lost in everything else it’s too overwhelming.


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