View Full Version : Help with accurizing a Glock 19
Accurizing Glock 19s
Taking my time at just 25 feet, offhand, my 11 year old STI 1911 9mm will put 10 rounds touching.
The best I can do with Glock 19s are sloppy groups of 3 or 3 ½ inches +.
The internals are a mix of favored parts. The trigger take up is clean, the break is light as well as the reset crisp. Sights are Trijicon HDs. All are OEM polished Gen 3 factory triggers and the barrels are factory. I tried a KKM barrel, there was no clear improvement. Spoke to KKM and they told me I would only see tighter groups with high end ammo. I shoot generally inexpensive 124 Arguillo or S&B.
I understand a Glock is not made for bullseye shooting but I should be able to do better.
All guns are Gen 4. 2nd hand I am told that Gen 5s are more accurate, but I am invested in the 4 series and like the finger grooves.
Looking for general suggestions specific to the Glocks that I can try out.
thx
jon
Boy, It's not really a target pistol.
I've always seen Glocks as accurate enough though.
Good luck on your endeavor.
25 feet is nothing. To conduct meaningful testing, shoot at 25yds on a small target like a B8.
Most service autos are capable of a ~1" group at 25 feet.
Your ammo is capable of that too, but better ammo will improve it.
HD sights are a pretty coarse sight picture. Swapping out for a set with finer edges and narrower front blades may help.
The short, light trigger of your 1911 requires less effort and ability. Dedicated bullseye drills, ball and dummy, etc with the G19 will improve you.
Whether or not you like the finger grooves, the gen5 GMB barrel is better, narrowing the gap between OEM and the aftermarket.
So, ammo, sights, practice. Maybe a barrel, but probably not.
Here is the best way to accurize your Glock:
Shoot it. Shoot it some more. When you think you’ve shot it enough, shoot it some more.
It isn’t that the Glock isn’t accurate enough, it’s that you suck at shooting it. That isn’t surprising at all in that you’re coming off a 9mm 1911. The single-action 1911 trigger is exceptionally easy to shoot and masks many of your fundamentals errors.
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Accurizing Glock 19s
Taking my time at just 25 feet, offhand, my 11 year old STI 1911 9mm will put 10 rounds touching.
The best I can do with Glock 19s are sloppy groups of 3 or 3 ½ inches +.
The internals are a mix of favored parts. The trigger take up is clean, the break is light as well as the reset crisp. Sights are Trijicon HDs. All are OEM polished Gen 3 factory triggers and the barrels are factory. I tried a KKM barrel, there was no clear improvement. Spoke to KKM and they told me I would only see tighter groups with high end ammo. I shoot generally inexpensive 124 Arguillo or S&B.
I understand a Glock is not made for bullseye shooting but I should be able to do better.
All guns are Gen 4. 2nd hand I am told that Gen 5s are more accurate, but I am invested in the 4 series and like the finger grooves.
Looking for general suggestions specific to the Glocks that I can try out.
thx
jon
Kkm barrel and american eagle or geco ammo posts 2-3” 10 shot groups for me at 25yds... when I am on my game, and its repeatable.
In my experience, if you slack on dry fire, you wont produce good groups. Dry fire daily.
Unless you got an extremely bad gun, I would think its a training issue. Id try to find someone who can shoot glocks well try it to validate the gun.
Fwiw, 25yds: my gen4 is a 3-4” gun with stock barrel
2-3” with kKm
Gen5 is right around 3”
I only shoot offhand.
WickedWillis
11-20-19, 15:21
I am a huge fan of the trijicon HD's, and general defender of them. HOWEVER, they are way less than ideal at 25 feet to 25 yards. I struggle quite a bit making good groupings at range with them.
Natty Bumpo
11-20-19, 15:46
I have seen improved accuracy with higher quality ammo. No quantitative values but improved groups using Federal American Eagle 147 Grain FMJ flat point over Remington or other bulk ammo.
G19 will be chalking to shoot as well as 1911.
Despite being recommended to everyone, Glocks are not easy pistols to shoot accurately right off the bat.
I had been shooting a P320C 9MM and it was mind numbingly easy to shoot tight groups - granted, it's an SAO striker with no safety w/ a 5 lb trigger that would drop if fired (mine was an original, sold it before the hubub), but you just line the sights up and pull the trigger, bang bang bang without much thought to technique and it was very accurate.
My first 250-500rds with G19s was disappointing initially as I pulled groups left and the sloppy technique I used with the P320 didn't lend itself to accuracy with a Glock. But after getting back to the basics and practicing, it's now a lot easier for me to shoot well. But it's not a target pistol and I'd never expect it to have STI 1911 accuracy. 1911's make everyone look good on the target range, with an easy trigger to get good with, much like the P320.
Better sights than what you have. HD XRs are better but still not awesome for bulls eye punching.
KKM barrel
124-147 factory ammo like AE or Hornady.
The Gen 4 glock is a 3”ish gun at 25 yards stock. The Gen 5 is a 2”ish gun at 25 yards.
Also, work on prepping the trigger. A lot. Ever so slight increases in trigger pressure until it goes off. You have to make sure you’re eliminating as much wobble as possible.
My Gen4 glocks will shoot 3-4" at 25yds with no problems. At 25 feet I can cut that in a 1/3. I have a ton of trigger time behind a 19 now and it is definitely easier now than in the beginning. I honestly feel that it's a "you" issue, not the pistol. Have you tried more than one G19 to rule out a mechanical issue with the firearm?
My problem with "accurizing" a G19 is that adding "better" triggers and "better" barrels often time removes the whole reason for owning a G19...the inherent stone cold reliability.
If you really think you need it in order to do better, get a gunsmith fit barrel.
A Glock will never be as mechanically accurate as a 1911 as IMO the lockup is superior in the 1911 and parts can be fit tighter.
This is all impractical nonsense anyway. A Glock from the factory is plenty accurate.
At the end of the day the Glock has several things going against it for real accuracy - it is polymer framed, which allows more flex; it has itty bitty frame rails; it locks up loose as a goose.
One of the simplest was to tighten groups with a stock barrel might be to tighten the lock up by using a slightly oversized 'match' slide lock: https://www.kingglock.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=799507
An aftermarket barrel for Gens 1-4, is going to also help, even a direct drop-in with no fitting in my limited experience.
That being said, 3 inches at 25 is doable with decent ammo and practice.
Straight Shooter
11-24-19, 07:37
At the end of the day the Glock has several things going against it for real accuracy - it is polymer framed, which allows more flex; it has itty bitty frame rails; it locks up loose as a goose.
One of the simplest was to tighten groups with a stock barrel might be to tighten the lock up by using a slightly oversized 'match' slide lock: https://www.kingglock.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=799507
An aftermarket barrel for Gens 1-4, is going to also help, even a direct drop-in with no fitting in my limited experience.
That being said, 3 inches at 25 is doable with decent ammo and practice.
Thats like the old Graham Match Slide Lock...had one about 10-12 years ago or so in a G21 and I remember testing it against stock, it made a definite improvement. I wasnt aware anyone else was making these. Graham stopped after some problems that occurred with one of the Gens that came out, cant recall exactly what.
All my Glocks are way accurate..but I may again experiment with one of these just to see if it does anything. Take down will be easier, if nothing else.
The Dumb Gun Collector
11-24-19, 10:06
My guess is the gun just isn't for you. Sometimes it happens. Most of my Glocks have been pretty accurate when I did my part, but I was never as accurate with them as I was with other guns (although they are fast as hell). Those HDs are tough sights to shoot with perfect precision (although they are by far my favorite). I don't think it is surprising that you are getting great groups out of your STI because that gun is amazing (and priced as such).
My guess is the gun just isn't for you..
Please don't tell me that. It's 5 Glock 19s. One I've owned since 1993.
At an outlaw Steel match this morning, tried a few things between stages. As suggested above it is probably a user issue.
I closed one eye and banged away at a small steel at distance and could not miss. Also, noticed using my off side I was slapping the trigger and am probably doing to some degree all the time.
Not ready to give up, just stubborn, but I am tempted by Wilson EDC X9. Then I say spending 3K+ holsters etc to buy a gun that that checks off the same boxes as a Glock 19 would be a personal defeat :-):sad:
What exactly are you trying to do with this pistol?
Aside from an aftermarket barrel, Dawson sights, and a (—) trigger there really is nothing you can do but shoot it.
If you can hit a man sized target with a respectable group off hand or prone at 100 yards then what more do you need?
It will never be a PPC gun.
Maybe you should shoot more
The Dumb Gun Collector
11-24-19, 14:41
Please don't tell me that. It's 5 Glock 19s. One I've owned since 1993.
At an outlaw Steel match this morning, tried a few things between stages. As suggested above it is probably a user issue.
I closed one eye and banged away at a small steel at distance and could not miss. Also, noticed using my off side I was slapping the trigger and am probably doing to some degree all the time.
Not ready to give up, just stubborn, but I am tempted by Wilson EDC X9. Then I say spending 3K+ holsters etc to buy a gun that that checks off the same boxes as a Glock 19 would be a personal defeat :-)
Hahaha. Well, I am wrong all the time. I know I just never could get to where I really, really enjoyed shooting Glocks, I have owned more than 10 and shot a lot of classes with them. They are good little blasters, but just aren't what I shoot best. I tried to make the CZ P10 work for me twice, and I could never quite make it. If we were awesome we would just go back to shooting the world's best 9mm...the H&K P7!!!
Had a P7. DXed it.
I’m sure it was cool in the 80s but not for me
EzGoingKev
11-24-19, 15:43
The biggest Glock issue is the trigger. It took me a long time to get the Glock trigger down.
I would suggest working out the trigger and then try shooting all brands/weights of ammo you can to find out what the barrel likes.
The Dumb Gun Collector
11-24-19, 15:58
d a P7. DXed it.
I’m sure it was cool in the 80s but not for me
Fascinating
Hard fit Barsto barrel
Dawson adjustable sights otherwise RMR
Overwatch flat face trigger shoe
Done.
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CAMagnussen
11-24-19, 17:21
In my opinion, the best way to accurize the Glock 19 (or any handgun for that matter) is to start by accurizing the shooter.
Please don't tell me that. It's 5 Glock 19s. One I've owned since 1993.
At an outlaw Steel match this morning, tried a few things between stages. As suggested above it is probably a user issue.
I closed one eye and banged away at a small steel at distance and could not miss. Also, noticed using my off side I was slapping the trigger and am probably doing to some degree all the time.
Not ready to give up, just stubborn, but I am tempted by Wilson EDC X9. Then I say spending 3K+ holsters etc to buy a gun that that checks off the same boxes as a Glock 19 would be a personal defeat :-):sad:
How often do you dry fire?
In my opinion, the best way to accurize the Glock 19 (or any handgun for that matter) is to start by accurizing the shooter.
This is where I'm going with this.
Mysteryman
11-25-19, 04:59
Here is the best way to accurize your Glock:
Shoot it. Shoot it some more. When you think you’ve shot it enough, shoot it some more.
It isn’t that the Glock isn’t accurate enough, it’s that you suck at shooting it. That isn’t surprising at all in that you’re coming off a 9mm 1911. The single-action 1911 trigger is exceptionally easy to shoot and masks many of your fundamentals errors.
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100% correct.
I love to spend money on guns.
I love to think about spending money on guns that are high dollar items that I believe I will shoot better because of "insert X feature here".
The reality is that ammo, dry fire and time behind the gun is the only thing that is going to increase my performance.
As I said earlier, mechanically, the gun is more capable than you are, than most people are.
Im surprised no one has said this but years ago people loved to reference a popular saying "fix the software, its not a hardware issue". Im bringing it back. :)
Ive seen you shoot, you're not a layman. Put the time into the gun and you will see the reward. You cant rush it.
The trick to a Glock is treating the trigger like a shorter double action and not a 1911.
Also, lots of dry fire, and some with a penny set on the front sight.
ViniVidivici
12-04-19, 11:26
I would humbly suggest give yourself a week of NO live fire, and VERY intensive, deliberate, thorough dryfire.
Then give it a shot. You might be surprised. I call it going back to the "dryfire drawing board".
Also, don't discount the ammo. Best accuracy happens with best ammo.
124gr Gold Dots are like laser beams out of our Glocks. Ain't cheap, but very fulfilling. .
But everybody knows you must buy a Gucci Glock, the most expensive, to achieve ultimate accuracy. NOT.
The saying stands true, Be Wary of a man that has 1 gun. He likely knows how to use it well.
WickedWillis
12-04-19, 12:22
The trick to a Glock is treating the trigger like a shorter double action and not a 1911.
Also, lots of dry fire, and some with a penny set on the front sight.
I think that's a really good tip, and a very overlooked step.
I feel that I "stage" Glock triggers even more than DA/SA guns.
I would humbly suggest give yourself a week of NO live fire, and VERY intensive, deliberate, thorough dryfire.
Then give it a shot. You might be surprised. I call it going back to the "dryfire drawing board".
Also, don't discount the ammo. Best accuracy happens with best ammo.
"Dryfire detox" typically solves 90% of my live fire issues. The penny on the front sight (or a casing on the front sight) trick is a great training tool too. When I consciously work on my trigger press, follow through, and trigger reset in dryfire exercises, my group size decreases substantially. +1 on ammunition selection and quality as a factor too, but I agree with Magsz in that mechanically, the gun is more capable than the person handling it in nearly every case.
This is a general comment, not directed at anyone:
I don't get all the 'penny on the front sight' recommendations.
In the old days we used pennies on the rib of the revolver barrels near the front sight to do both DA and SA trigger training.
With the Glocks I find it pretty hard to believe someone is balancing a penny or dime on a factory polymer front sight or on a .125 wide Tritium front. A penny laying on the flat surface of the slide as a useful diagnostic? LOL Additionally, you have to rack the slide to practice reset - which means you'd have to balance the coin again.
The 'tricks' that folks use to make the Glock dryfire w/o racking the slide - place a piece of card stock in the ejection port between the barrel and breechface - do not in any way, shape or form replicate the Glock trigger pull - except for the force necessary to overcome the firing pin safety and trigger spring. There is no reset, or most importantly feel of the cruciform - striker interaction. This is why I believe SRT trainers are also a waster of time.
Dryfiring to ingrain proper trigger control can be done seated, with your pistol aimed at a circle on the floor - I use an Ace of Spades blown up 200%. Ensure no ammo in room and make sure everything is empty and clear.
For first shot dryfire - focus on the front sight, press through the slack, then press through the shot. This is important because unless the shooter has this ingrained, they will invariably be low on the first shot, and in a gunfight, the first shot should stop the fight.
For second and subsequent shots, pin the trigger to the rear as you cycle the slide, let the trigger out as you refocus on the front sight, press until the shot breaks, pin the trigger and repeat.
You should be able to see the sight move if it is moving.
Those that disagree with these technique are generally not those who shoot stock Glock triggers, or triggers that are safe for CCW carry; OR they are shooters who send upwards of 10,000 practice rounds a year downrange.
The reason I use the sitting example is because of the experience of a female shooter I spent 30 minutes with. This shooter had come through range with a group that I hadn't worked with as I was doing shotgun. I was assigned to do her first cold bore remedial qual, which she failed 57% if I recall. This was on a Friday, before she went home that weekend I spent about 15 minutes showing her proper grip and coaching her through the dryfire drills I described above. On Monday she returned to the range for what I thought would be her second hour of remedial instruction. She told me she wanted to use her second remedial qual attempt. I asked if she was sure, because if she failed she was through and would have to come completely through firearms again, IF her agency retained her. She said she was good to go and she was, she shot an 89%.
When I asked her what she had done she told me that every time her husband and kids were out of the house she stuck the Ace of Spades on a bulletin board and practiced drawing, finding her front sight and holding focus on it. Then she said she sat down and dry fired making sure her sight didn't move. She estimated 1/2 on draw and about 2 hour dryfiring in 10 to 15 minute segments. Shit works if you actually take the time to do it. In her case I was glad it worked, she worked for a small to medium-sized agency and went on to have a stellar career with the largest agency in our state.
This is a general comment, not directed at anyone:
I don't get all the 'penny on the front sight' recommendations.
In the old days we used pennies on the rib of the revolver barrels near the front sight to do both DA and SA trigger training.
With the Glocks I find it pretty hard to believe someone is balancing a penny or dime on a factory polymer front sight or on a .125 wide Tritium front. A penny laying on the flat surface of the slide as a useful diagnostic? LOL Additionally, you have to rack the slide to practice reset - which means you'd have to balance the coin again.
The 'tricks' that folks use to make the Glock dryfire w/o racking the slide - place a piece of card stock in the ejection port between the barrel and breechface - do not in any way, shape or form replicate the Glock trigger pull - except for the force necessary to overcome the firing pin safety and trigger spring. There is no reset, or most importantly feel of the cruciform - striker interaction. This is why I believe SRT trainers are also a waster of time.
Dryfiring to ingrain proper trigger control can be done seated, with your pistol aimed at a circle on the floor - I use an Ace of Spades blown up 200%. Ensure no ammo in room and make sure everything is empty and clear.
For first shot dryfire - focus on the front sight, press through the slack, then press through the shot. This is important because unless the shooter has this ingrained, they will invariably be low on the first shot, and in a gunfight, the first shot should stop the fight.
For second and subsequent shots, pin the trigger to the rear as you cycle the slide, let the trigger out as you refocus on the front sight, press until the shot breaks, pin the trigger and repeat.
You should be able to see the sight move if it is moving.
Those that disagree with these technique are generally not those who shoot stock Glock triggers, or triggers that are safe for CCW carry; OR they are shooters who send upwards of 10,000 practice rounds a year downrange.
The reason I use the sitting example is because of the experience of a female shooter I spent 30 minutes with. This shooter had come through range with a group that I hadn't worked with as I was doing shotgun. I was assigned to do her first cold bore remedial qual, which she failed 57% if I recall. This was on a Friday, before she went home that weekend I spent about 15 minutes showing her proper grip and coaching her through the dryfire drills I described above. On Monday she returned to the range for what I thought would be her second hour of remedial instruction. She told me she wanted to use her second remedial qual attempt. I asked if she was sure, because if she failed she was through and would have to come completely through firearms again, IF her agency retained her. She said she was good to go and she was, she shot an 89%.
When I asked her what she had done she told me that every time her husband and kids were out of the house she stuck the Ace of Spades on a bulletin board and practiced drawing, finding her front sight and holding focus on it. Then she said she sat down and dry fired making sure her sight didn't move. She estimated 1/2 on draw and about 2 hour dryfiring in 10 to 15 minute segments. Shit works if you actually take the time to do it. In her case I was glad it worked, she worked for a small to medium-sized agency and went on to have a stellar career with the largest agency in our state.
Nothing you said was “wrong”, but its limited imo.
Im one of the “10,000 rds/yr” guys.
Pinning the trigger will get you only so far.
Imo, dry fire practice should be slamming the trigger back with immediate reset (relaxation of trigger finger- you dont need real reset) and figure out how to do it and keep the sight steady. I use an rds so i dont balance stuff.
You can also install a ny trigger in a 2nd gun and use the zip-tie in the slide trick to get close to a stock trigger.
I suggest people use the same trigger press (method, not speed) for 50yd targets and 5-foot targets. Consistency is accuracy. The press/reset should never change, just the speed of the press IMO. I’ve shot my best groups without the bang-click during experimentation and wont go back. I only use stock glock stuff (- connector is the only mod)
The method Ive found produces the fastest gains is to set a personal accuracy goal, achieve it, then learn to replicate it at speed. Then revisit accuracy, then hit new standard at speed, repeat. Its a cyclical process.
For max accuracy, I use a smooth, but quick & deliberate press with immediate reset. Reset is the same despite distance, only the press speed varies. Just my experience/opinion. Ymmv.
There are some higher level shooters who stage the trigger- doesnt work for me. Some other high-level shooters pull all the way through like I do. Everyone needs to experiment to find what they can do the most consistently. This will also evolve over time, so you need to constantly push the limits, and experiment... in cycles.
Nothing you said was “wrong”, but its limited imo.
Im one of the “10,000 rds/yr” guys.
Pinning the trigger will get you only so far.
And I get that - as I said, guys that shoot 10,000 rounds a year are doing it for a reason other than self-defense or range play. What works for them (you) will likely not work for someone who is going to shoot 1,000 rounds a year.
Regarding pinning the trigger, don't make too much of it, pinning is simply to allow you to reset the trigger after you cycle the action in dry-fire. Sure shooters will initially pin/reset/press more deliberately during live-fire, as they become more accomplished it is press/reset/press. This is where they end up - for max accuracy, I use a smooth, but quick & deliberate press with immediate reset. Reset is the same despite distance, only the press speed varies. Just my experience/opinion. Ymmv.
The trick to a Glock is treating the trigger like a shorter double action and not a 1911.
Also, lots of dry fire, and some with a penny set on the front sight.
I agree. I shoot both Glocks and 1911s and have to press the trigger differently when switching between the two weapons. I manipulate the Glock trigger like a revolver when shooting and have had success with the technique. Decent groups at 100 meters are achievable with the Glock 19 and decent ammunition.
Dry fire drills are a great way to improve trigger control skills. I highly recommend dime drills to students when teaching a basic pistol skills course.
I just got out of the P7 because it wasn’t really for me. The squeeze cock is cool and it is accurate but it has a heel release and it gets hot.
I just don’t have time for it.
You can get aftermarket barrels and I thought about it but I’m not doing precision shooting.
If I can get a respectable COM print on an IPSC at 50 yards or a B8 target then I dont care
If you want to invest in something that match grade you probably want a revolver or a 1911
Accurizing Glock 19s
Taking my time at just 25 feet, offhand, my 11 year old STI 1911 9mm will put 10 rounds touching.
The best I can do with Glock 19s are sloppy groups of 3 or 3 ½ inches +.
The internals are a mix of favored parts. The trigger take up is clean, the break is light as well as the reset crisp. Sights are Trijicon HDs. All are OEM polished Gen 3 factory triggers and the barrels are factory. I tried a KKM barrel, there was no clear improvement. Spoke to KKM and they told me I would only see tighter groups with high end ammo. I shoot generally inexpensive 124 Arguillo or S&B.
I understand a Glock is not made for bullseye shooting but I should be able to do better.
All guns are Gen 4. 2nd hand I am told that Gen 5s are more accurate, but I am invested in the 4 series and like the finger grooves.
Looking for general suggestions specific to the Glocks that I can try out.
thx
jon
I mean no disrespect but I recommend just bringing 500 rounds with you, and work on your technique. I do that with newly acquired guns. I continue shooting until I’m satisfied with my session. 7-10-15 on paper (sometimes 12 yards), and then I go for hitting steel at 25 yards. Except the large magnums (44 Mag and up) which I prefer At 50 yards because I don’t appreciate splatter back.
I use 3” stickers on an IDPA target and can put all into that at 12 yards. No Mods on a Glock 19 Generation 4 or a Glock 19, Gen 5. I can do that with any of my other 11 Glock pistols or my CZ pistols.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191206/acb70e0c67332d3b78f9d2310488482a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191206/4d2761940244e915c3af5e9a6e3db59f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191206/5bd113c3f9f33530bcd2b69514b8b05d.jpg
That CZ 75 SP-01 was out of the holster with a split time of 0.45 sec, with first shot DA and second single action.
That 500 Magnum was shot in double action, quicker than 0.8 sec between shots on the bear head.
One thing I recommend to people is take up the Pre travel on a Glock trigger. Your groups will tighten up better, too.
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I highly recommend dime drills to students when teaching a basic pistol skills course.
How do you do your dime drills, maybe I'm missing something.
How do you do your dime drills, maybe I'm missing something.
Put a dime on top of the slide, pull the trigger without making the dime fall off.
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Put a dime on top of the slide, pull the trigger without making the dime fall off.
Seriously, how hard do you have to be jerking/lunging into the shot before the dime falls off the Glock slide which is around, 1.10 inches wide?
I just put a dime on the slide and yanked the trigger so hard the front sight disappeared - dime still there.
Like I said, the coin on the slide is not much use in a striker fired pistol. I could see it on a DA/SA, maybe: I just opened the safe and did the deal with my CZ75 - criminitly, I was yanking the DA pull all over the place, dime still there.
Now, if you guys are talking live-fire, I'm impressed.
I thought it was supposed to balance on the front sight.
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I use a brass case atop the front sight for my own practice and teaching others. It's not possible with all front sight posts. Credit for this drill to Larry Vickers. If you place a case or coin on the slide you can still beat on the trigger, reducing or eliminating the value altogether.
CAMagnussen
12-07-19, 10:46
I use a brass case atop the front sight for my own practice and teaching others. It's not possible with all front sight posts. Credit for this drill to Larry Vickers. If you place a case or coin on the slide you can still beat on the trigger, reducing or eliminating the value altogether.
Thank you, ST911. This has been my experience as well. LAV classes opened my eyes and this drill helped me overcome the Gock low/left
'nuff said.
CAMagnussen
12-07-19, 10:47
delete
CAMagnussen
12-07-19, 12:39
This is a general comment, not directed at anyone:
I don't get all the 'penny on the front sight' recommendations. =
OK BOOMER
Gonna have to a agree with 26inf on the penny thing. Not a lot of utility there.
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The coin trick was born from revolver use. It works for them. I’ve done it.
I thought it was supposed to balance on the front sight.
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That is correct. You balance the dime on top of the front sight, present the unloaded pistol toward a blank wall and press the trigger without the dime jumping off the front sight. You have to focus on the dime while the drill is executed. That reinforces focusing on the front sight and follow through. On a Glock 17 or Glock 19 with OEM trigger and sights we perform the drill until the student can successfully complete the trigger press 10 times without losing the dime.
If the top of the front sight is rounded, you have to come up with something else. If the slide is flat on top, I've placed a piece of spent .22 LR brass on a student's slide behind the front sight to perform the same drill. If the top of the slide is rounded, you balance the dime on the slide behind the front sight.
OK BOOMER
I got your boomer.
Glad that LAV cured your PIP.
Maybe this would have helped also: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/premature-ejaculation/diagnosis-treatment/drc-20354905
LET ME HUMBLY APOLOGIZE (to everyone but CAM)
I just yanked every pistol I have with aftermarket sights or night sights on them. Found that I could balance the dime on everything from an .090 Dawson patridge to the waaay wide Tritium on my Glock 19.
Also found that I could balance the dime on the front sight of the .090 Dawson for 7 DA strokes with my Pre-B CZ-75 - so I guess I'm going to have to work on that to get the T2C seal of approval. I was able to balance the dime on the front sight of my Makarov (Polish Radom) by tilting the barrel upward but I'm barely strong enough to pull it double action, so the dime fell off - LOL.
Seriously, I'm guilty of closed-mindedness. I discarded the coin on the 'rib' of the DA revolver and DA/SA pistol as not worthwhile for the SA or striker-fired pistols. Mea culpa.
In my defense, I still see the merit for DA pulls on revolvers or DA/SA pistols as a tool to develop smoothness in the DA pull, but not so much on the SA or striker fired pistols. If you can't see the front sight dip, well.
That being said, once again, mea culpa.
The coin trick was born from revolver use. It works for them. I’ve done it.
It’s not always about you
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It’s not always about you
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Every time you say that to me, it makes the Baby Yoda cry :p
Always used this in trigger control with students. It checks their tendency to snatch the trigger.
My guess is the gun just isn't for you. Sometimes it happens.
This.
When I got my P320 back from the drop safety recall work, I was amazed!!! A striker fired pistol that approached the accuracy of my 1911s!!!!!! The trigger was FANTASTIC!!!!! People have told me many different ways to improve my shooting of the Glock - none worked. There IS a design issue. Not a defect, but an issue. Some of us cannot shoot a Glock even though we can accurately shoot just about any other handgun on the planet. I personally think it is a combination of the trigger mechanics and the grip shape. Others will obviously disagree.
Yes, dry fire and practice will improve accuracy somewhat - but some of us just can’t reach the level that we desire. YMMV
geezer john
There is currently a thread on another forum where people are gushing about how amazing Glocks are and how the design lends itself so well to intuitive shooting via the grip angle, trigger etc.
I read the thread and chuckled to myself. There is nothing ergonomic about the Glock. The way in which the grip angle interfaces with the trigger is friggin awful. There are so many more guns that offer a better human to machine interface.
People get way too invested in wanting to like equipment that they tend to lie to themselves. Can you make a Glock work well? Absolutely. Is it harder to do than other guns with better ergonomics? Yes, I believe so.
I shoot glocks solely because they work. There are more comfy pistols but the Glock will bring you back. Glock or HK.
I never bought into the ergos. I just want things that work.
I shoot glocks solely because they work. There are more comfy pistols but the Glock will bring you back. Glock or HK.
I never bought into the ergos. I just want things that work.
I agree with you.
My counter point is that there are plenty of other pistols out there that also work.
Gunnar da Wolf
12-24-19, 10:54
Personally I don’t like Glocks. I saw too many growing pains over the years as an LEO. But I’ve never seen a Glock that wasn’t accurate enough. I had a rookie show up with and fail the qual course with a G27 and started blaming the gun. I loaded 10 in the magazine, went prone and put them all thru the center of the head on a TQ-21 at 25 yards. My wife wanted a G19 so I bought her one. First outing with it I obliterated the little picture of the target in the corner of the actual target at 10 yards.
Now that I’m old and those pesky sights are getting hard to see, I guess a G19 MOS is in my future as the most economic way to get into RDS pistols. Dammit!
elephantrider
12-27-19, 17:05
Back to OP's question(s)
Glocks can be quite accurate, but that accuracy can be very ammunition dependent, and also assumes everything else is going right with the shooter (i.e. grip, trigger, and sights are being managed correctly). Your Glocks are very different pistols from your STI 1911 and much less forgiving to shoot, primarily because of the trigger design of the Glock (lots of movement in the mechanism before, during, and after the break). Yes, Gen4 Glocks are typically more accurate than Gen3s, and Gen5s are typically more so than Gen4s, BUT the fore mentioned ammo caveat is going to still apply. I have produced a sub 2" 10 shot group at 25 yards with a stock barreled Gen3 Glock 34. I had to use a shooting rest and this was with just ONE of the premium ammo types that I tried, but the mechanical accuracy was there with that particular load. Good results can be produced at 25 yards with a Glock, but you will have to do your part in setting up your gun, selecting ammo, and your own shooting skills. A 1" 25 yard group like a high quality 1911 can achieve is not in the cards.
Targets/distance: 25 feet is too close to correctly evaluate your accuracy. 25 yards is where you want to be. If all of your rounds are touching at a closer distance, you are missing out on the feedback that you would get from a more distant target, and dispersed shot group. A more dispersed shot group shows you where you are making mistakes via bullet holes that are outside the main group. Try a B8, or B8 repair center target on a larger backer.
Sights should be your first change to the gun. It's unlikely that Trijicon HDs are going to give you a fine enough sight picture (big fat front sight) for good accuracy at 25 yards. I prefer Dawson adjustable sights which come with a 0.125" rear notch, and plain black, or fiber optic front sights in .100", .110", or 0.115". 0.115" is about as wide as you can go, and not have the front blade appear wider than a B8 black bullseye at 25 yards. Dawson also has fixed versions of their sight, but you will not get a refined 25 yard zero when you have to drift the rear, or swap the front sight height to achieve this. The wider the front the thinner the light bars are (less error prone) on either side of the rear notch when an 'equal light' front/rear sight alignment is achieved.
Barrel: you may want, or need, to swap to an aftermarket barrel to achieve the accuracy you want. Depending on the ammunition that the stock barrel likes, it may produce the accuracy you want, but you have to test different ammunition, while shooting consistently enough to notice the differences, OR use a physical shooting rest to test ammunitions. Using a rest is probably the best way to check the gun/ammo combo, and also check/adjust zero. If you do this be sure that you have the gun, target, and your sight line level, as you would shooting free style at 25 yards. You don't want to be craning, your neck to achieve an unnatural sight picture. Use a rest, chair, table, hang your target lower than normal, or whatever is needed to accomplish this. Almost no one does this because it is not sexy, and time consuming, but can yield good information.
Aftermarket barrels can yield an accuracy improvement, but also aren't guaranteed to like all types of ammo, and don't make up for using junk ammo. Looking at tests of an assortment of aftermarket barrel/ammo combinations, different aftermarket barrels will also favor certain ammo over others, and each will have it's own favorite (differences in throat style, and rifling), so you'd have to verify different combinations. An aftermarket barrel, can give a slightly tighter fit between the barrel hood, and slide, as well as offer conventional rifling. I've played with a KKM barrel, but now have some of the Brownells barrels, which I like (1/10 conventional rifling, nitride finish, and a slightly tighter drop in fit on my gen3 slides).
Everything else: trigger job, grip/stippling jobs, aftermarket triggers, connectors, etc, can give slight improvements to the shoot-ability of the gun, but aren't deal breakers, or game changers. Cleaning up the internal trigger parts/mechanism, along with a lighter (-) connector can take a lot of the vagueness, and some weigh out of the trigger. Some years back, Grant from G&R Tactical posted a great tutorial on the proper way to do a '$0.25' trigger job, with the proper tools. I purchased the honing stones that he recommended, and follow his method. After that, things like aluminum flat faced triggers can help with trigger feel, but that is really squeezing the last few percentiles of accuracy out of the gun/shooter. I've also had Lane from Cold Bore Customs do some minor grip modification, and 360 stippling, and that makes one of my G17s a whole lot more comfortable, but not necessarily more accurate. I'd settle for some grip tape, if budget, or time were an issue there.
LewWallace
12-27-19, 17:25
Before you put a single penny into a Glock, buy a 1000 case of ammo and work on you trigger press to the point you are able to put rounds into a B8 NRA target in the black center from 21 feet. Work on that trigger press. Far too many people waste way too much money tryiinng to "accurize" their stock Glocks. When you are able to do this, then put decent sights on your Glock. Glock stock sights are crap. But when you master them, then, replace them.
elephantrider
12-27-19, 17:57
Before you put a single penny into a Glock, buy a 1000 case of ammo and work on you trigger press to the point you are able to put rounds into a B8 NRA target in the black center from 21 feet. Work on that trigger press. Far too many people waste way too much money tryiinng to "accurize" their stock Glocks. When you are able to do this, then put decent sights on your Glock. Glock stock sights are crap. But when you master them, then, replace them.
Spending time and money on ammunition, "mastering" junk sights that aren't fit for purpose, and trigger press that could be accomplished via dry fire, is what I would call wasting money. Replacing sights is not accurizing the gun. Just "buy a case of ammo," could also be wasting money if that ammo isn't suitable for his need/purpose.
I don't shoot Glocks well without a lot of regular, consistent practice.
That's why I went with a VP9.
Imo, dry fire practice should be slamming the trigger back with immediate reset (relaxation of trigger finger- you dont need real reset) and figure out how to do it and keep the sight steady.
THIS.
I don't shoot Glocks well without a lot of regular, consistent practice.
That's why I went with a VP9.
Most people don't. That's why so many Glock shooters burn 20K rounds a year to stay proficient.
There is currently a thread on another forum where people are gushing about how amazing Glocks are and how the design lends itself so well to intuitive shooting via the grip angle, trigger etc.
I read the thread and chuckled to myself. There is nothing ergonomic about the Glock. The way in which the grip angle interfaces with the trigger is friggin awful. There are so many more guns that offer a better human to machine interface.
People get way too invested in wanting to like equipment that they tend to lie to themselves. Can you make a Glock work well? Absolutely. Is it harder to do than other guns with better ergonomics? Yes, I believe so.
The thing that gets most people is the low bore axis places the web of the hand much higher than the trigger, and the frame above the trigger is so much wider than the trigger that's it's difficult for a lot of people to get their finger on the trigger without it pushing and dragging on the frame. I physically cannot do it.
The ergos are actually better suited to using your middle finger on the trigger.
Originally Posted by MegademiC:
Imo, dry fire practice should be slamming the trigger back with immediate reset (relaxation of trigger finger- you dont need real reset) and figure out how to do it and keep the sight steady.
THIS.
One method doesn't meet the needs/abilities of all shooters.
For most shooters slack(taking up pre-travel on Glock) press, reset, press is going to work much better, much quicker** than slam, flip, slam (paraphrasing your description).
** in terms of learning curve, not absolute speed
Might as well learn how to do it right the first time.
Slap / flip and press.
Staging is accompanied by riding reset and then untraining that mess is difficult.
Might as well learn how to do it right the first time.
Slap / flip and press.
Staging is accompanied by riding reset and then untraining that mess is difficult.
Exactly.
Why f*ck around with improper technique at all? Pinning the trigger and riding reset is just wrong.
Exactly.
Why f*ck around with improper technique at all? Pinning the trigger and riding reset is just wrong.
It’s a bunch of late 80s and 90s bull that “instructors” came up with to help idiots pass quals rather than teaching them to run their gun.
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It’s a bunch of late 80s and 90s bull that “instructors” came up with to help idiots pass quals rather than teaching them to run their gun.
I'm hurt. Actually, it was a concept to teach folks using revolvers when they transitioned to DA/SA autos, and it was late 70's early 80's. Then Glock invented the concept in the mid 80's.
Might as well learn how to do it right the first time.
Slap / flip and press.
Staging is accompanied by riding reset and then untraining that mess is difficult.
It’s a bunch of late 80s and 90s bull that “instructors” came up with to help idiots pass quals rather than teaching them to run their gun.
You folks need to get out of the bubble of 'me, what I do' and look at it from a wider perspective. As I said, 'one method doesn't fit the needs of all shooters.'
As 'el sabalo limited liability company' (AKA lsllc) intimates, I was a firearms instructor circa 1974 through 2016 when I retired from full time work.
When you are doing that kind of work you need to seek continual training, come up with stuff on your own, and be aware of the limitations of time, money, and your audience. As a result, the good ones learn to be efficient and effective. In my case, many of the students I trained had little or no firearms experience, and many of them were just as excited to get a new pair of boots as they were a firearm.
So you do what you feel is best in terms of efficiency, time, expense and liability. Based on my experience, a more 'traditional' approach is what was most appropriate for entry level officers, who most often would not seek out, or be required to do advanced firearms training, and for the most part won't do a lot of practice on their own.
YMMV.
I went with a barsto fitted barrel and helped in the accuracy dept a good bit in my book.
Funsmith said it took him a while to file it down to a perfect tight fit, it locks up tight and groups shrank immensely.
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You folks need to get out of the bubble of 'me, what I do' and look at it from a wider perspective. As I said, 'one method doesn't fit the needs of all shooters.'
As 'el sabalo limited liability company' (AKA lsllc) intimates, I was a firearms instructor circa 1974 through 2016 when I retired from full time work.
When you are doing that kind of work you need to seek continual training, come up with stuff on your own, and be aware of the limitations of time, money, and your audience. As a result, the good ones learn to be efficient and effective. In my case, many of the students I trained had little or no firearms experience, and many of them were just as excited to get a new pair of boots as they were a firearm.
So you do what you feel is best in terms of efficiency, time, expense and liability. Based on my experience, a more 'traditional' approach is what was most appropriate for entry level officers, who most often would not seek out, or be required to do advanced firearms training, and for the most part won't do a lot of practice on their own.
YMMV.
I’m so sorry you’re hurt. I didn’t say it was your fault idiots who are carrying a gun for a living don’t take it seriously.
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Might as well learn how to do it right the first time.
Slap / flip and press.
Staging is accompanied by riding reset and then untraining that mess is difficult.
Who teaches this technique? How well does it work with an OEM trigger? What accuracy can you achieve at 25 yards using this technique?
Who teaches this technique? How well does it work with an OEM trigger? What accuracy can you achieve at 25 yards using this technique?
Everyone living in the 2000s. It works with any trigger. Depends on how well you do it.
Who teaches this technique? How well does it work with an OEM trigger? What accuracy can you achieve at 25 yards using this technique?
Oem g19.4&5.
2-3” at 25yds. Obviously the slap becomes a smooth quick pull, but having 2 trigger pulls for fast and slow shooting did not make sense to me nor did it work out.
So my approach may not work for all, but for the op, he should try it for a week and see if he gets results.
Edit- “smooth quick pull” should be “deliberate pull”. Speed depends on difficulty. 100 yds i take .3 to .5 to pull but still reset “under recoil” and its more consistent.
OP here. Understand the technique and have worked on it.
I’m so sorry you’re hurt. I didn’t say it was your fault idiots who are carrying a gun for a living don’t take it seriously.
The closest I could come to saying I carried a gun for a living was when I was in the Marines and the Army. Saying LEO's carry guns for a living is an overly simplistic view of the overall function of LE. Additionally, there is more to LE use of force training than firearms manipulation. LEO's use their mouths more than any other weapon.
While I might appear to be downplaying the importance of officers being proficient with their firearms, that isn't the case at all, I am talking about degrees of proficiency. Most officers aren't going to put in the work it takes to be a Rob Vogel.
Who teaches this technique? How well does it work with an OEM trigger? What accuracy can you achieve at 25 yards using this technique?
IMO Bill Rogers, Rogers Shooting School is the best at teaching this method of shooting:
https://www.rogersshootingschool.com/index.php
The closest target is 7 yards, the furthest is 20, surprisingly, the low barricade target gave me more trouble than the distant target:
https://cdn.athlonoutdoors.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2014/08/bill-rogers-shooting-school-5.jpg
Here is an okay write-up about the course: https://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2014/08/bill-rogers-shooting-school-offers-test-lifetime/
Rogers has a cultish following, in my course there was a hand surgeon from Florida, who attends the course each year. He sent me a copy of his 'book' on how to shoot the tests, it is similar to this one, but has drawings of the course presentations rather than video:
http://pistol-training.com/articles/rogers-shooting-school-stage-guides
I thoroughly enjoyed attending the course and learned a lot from it, I think that there is merit to have shooters go through his basic course, shoot with .22's, as their introduction to pistol. My trip to Elijay, cost a little north of three grand in total expenses, which is something many folks can't afford.
What this and other courses I've attended, as well as a couple of thousand hours using 'FATS' systems, is that folks can shoot faster than they process, which in LE training is something to be aware of.
Oem g19.4&5.
2-3” at 25yds. Obviously the slap becomes a smooth quick pull, but having 2 trigger pulls for fast and slow shooting did not make sense to me nor did it work out.
So my approach may not work for all, but for the op, he should try it for a week and see if he gets results.
Edit- “smooth quick pull” should be “deliberate pull”. Speed depends on difficulty. 100 yds i take .3 to .5 to pull but still reset “under recoil” and its more consistent.
Your mention of 'reset under recoil' makes me think we are talking about essentially the same thing. Do you prep the trigger on the press out?
Oem g19.4&5.
2-3” at 25yds. Obviously the slap becomes a smooth quick pull, but having 2 trigger pulls for fast and slow shooting did not make sense to me nor did it work out.
So my approach may not work for all, but for the op, he should try it for a week and see if he gets results.
Edit- “smooth quick pull” should be “deliberate pull”. Speed depends on difficulty. 100 yds i take .3 to .5 to pull but still reset “under recoil” and its more consistent.
Deliberate is a key word used when we describe trigger manipulation. We don't use slap, pull, etc., usually press or roll to describe the act of moving the trigger to the rear. Some people confuse old school bullseye pistol shooting or high power rifle shooting techniques with modern defensive shooting techniques taught to LEO. Your estimate of time to break the shot gives a clearer picture of how you perform the act.
I agree, one method for trigger manipulation that works well for fast or slow shooting provides a solid foundation for one of the elements of successful shooting with smooth being the operative word. Trigger speed is determined by necessity and distance to target. Close to 90% of the handgun and close quarters carbine shooting we teach is while on the move. When we ask a student to self assess why they were not getting hits to the extent they wanted, we often hear them say they slapped, jerked or pulled the trigger. That's why I like to ask questions when someone uses one of those terms to describe proficient trigger manipulation.
Over the past 35 years, I've had the opportunity to attend some courses taught by accomplished instructors. Some material was worth using, some of it did not work out. When I stop asking questions and assessing other shooting techniques, it will be time to hang up the instructor hat.
Back to the OP's question. I suggest practicing until you can consistently shoot concentric groups of the same size before investing in a different barrel or trigger work. Groups well under 5" at 25 yards are achievable with an OEM Glock pistol. Mix things up to keep it interesting. Vary distances and difficulty of drills. If you start getting frustrated, try some drills that are a little less difficult and more fun. If you are not practicing at distances out to at least 25 yards, you are depriving yourself of a training opportunity.
While at the range this afternoon, I saw two people successfully hitting a target at 100 yards with a Glock 19 equipped with original barrel and a RDS. They were shooting bulk pack Remington 115g FMJ.
The closest I could come to saying I carried a gun for a living was when I was in the Marines and the Army. Saying LEO's carry guns for a living is an overly simplistic view of the overall function of LE. Additionally, there is more to LE use of force training than firearms manipulation. LEO's use their mouths more than any other weapon.
While I might appear to be downplaying the importance of officers being proficient with their firearms, that isn't the case at all, I am talking about degrees of proficiency. Most officers aren't going to put in the work it takes to be a Rob Vogel.
Sometimes I find it’s best to simplify for the readers online.
I’m not saying officers should be Bob Vogel, however the marksmanship standards in most cases is downright laughable and the fact that such trigger manipulation would be required to change platforms or pass a qualification is frightening. It is a life-saving and life-taking tool. Incompetency with other tools compared to sidearms is the difference between a type one and type two error. One can argue officers in certain roles don’t require high levels of proficiency. That’s fine. They shouldn’t carry a gun then.
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Your mention of 'reset under recoil' makes me think we are talking about essentially the same thing. Do you prep the trigger on the press out?
No.
My trigger press never pauses or changes pace. I can abort and re-pull, but I do not stage the trigger.
Deliberate is a key word used when we describe trigger manipulation. We don't use slap, pull, etc., usually press or roll to describe the act of moving the trigger to the rear. Some people confuse old school bullseye pistol shooting or high power rifle shooting techniques with modern defensive shooting techniques taught to LEO. Your estimate of time to break the shot gives a clearer picture of how you perform the act.
I agree, one method for trigger manipulation that works well for fast or slow shooting provides a solid foundation for one of the elements of successful shooting with smooth being the operative word. Trigger speed is determined by necessity and distance to target. Close to 90% of the handgun and close quarters carbine shooting we teach is while on the move. When we ask a student to self assess why they were not getting hits to the extent they wanted, we often hear them say they slapped, jerked or pulled the trigger. That's why I like to ask questions when someone uses one of those terms to describe proficient trigger manipulation.
Over the past 35 years, I've had the opportunity to attend some courses taught by accomplished instructors. Some material was worth using, some of it did not work out. When I stop asking questions and assessing other shooting techniques, it will be time to hang up the instructor hat.
Back to the OP's question. I suggest practicing until you can consistently shoot concentric groups of the same size before investing in a different barrel or trigger work. Groups well under 5" at 25 yards are achievable with an OEM Glock pistol. Mix things up to keep it interesting. Vary distances and difficulty of drills. If you start getting frustrated, try some drills that are a little less difficult and more fun. If you are not practicing at distances out to at least 25 yards, you are depriving yourself of a training opportunity.
While at the range this afternoon, I saw two people successfully hitting a target at 100 yards with a Glock 19 equipped with original barrel and a RDS. They were shooting bulk pack Remington 115g FMJ.
So my approach is if pulling the trigger fast makes you inaccurate, learn to pull it fast and not move the gun.
It solves like 80% of why people suck, including myself.
No.
My trigger press never pauses or changes pace. I can abort and re-pull, but I do not stage the trigger.
So my approach is if pulling the trigger fast makes you inaccurate, learn to pull it fast and not move the gun.
It solves like 80% of why people suck, including myself.
If you are consistently shooting 2"-3" groups at 25 yards with your Glock, your technique is working for you. If you are getting decent hits at 100 yards, it is definitely working for you.
Almost everyone teaches to some degree. Most of us teach friends and family how to shoot more efficiently. What are you teaching people to do that will minimize the movement of the pistol when you manipulate the trigger rapidly? A change in grip? A change in body position? Are there specific aspects about dry fire drills that reinforce your technique?
If you are consistently shooting 2"-3" groups at 25 yards with your Glock, your technique is working for you. If you are getting decent hits at 100 yards, it is definitely working for you.
Almost everyone teaches to some degree. Most of us teach friends and family how to shoot more efficiently. What are you teaching people to do that will minimize the movement of the pistol when you manipulate the trigger rapidly? A change in grip? A change in body position? Are there specific aspects about dry fire drills that reinforce your technique?
Most of the people I see attempt to stage the trigger and adjust sights constantly.
Seems when people work through that instinct and learn to consistently and appropriately grip the pistol it all comes together.
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Sometimes I find it’s best to simplify for the readers online.
https://y.yarn.co/1552d64d-98d5-43bf-b139-90b951f84ec0_text.mp4?1577692971737
:cool:
:cool:
:cool:
I’m not saying officers should be Bob Vogel, however the marksmanship standards in most cases is downright laughable and the fact that such trigger manipulation would be required to change platforms or pass a qualification is frightening. It is a life-saving and life-taking tool. Incompetency with other tools compared to sidearms is the difference between a type one and type two error. One can argue officers in certain roles don’t require high levels of proficiency. That’s fine. They shouldn’t carry a gun then.
I agree that marksmanship standards should be higher, but I don't think that training should be at the expensive of training that will help them avoid shooting situations, or other safety training such as vehicle operations.
There are over a half million police officers in the United States. If you look at harm to activity ratios (which was one of my things) police officers should, in order:
1) Never get on a police motorcycle;
2) Never get in a police aircraft;
3) Never get in a police vehicle:
4) Never get in a gun fight.
It is hard to really gather data about all LEO duty-related deaths, but several sources have claimed that only 10 to 20 percent of duty-related deaths are the result of hostile line-of-duty encounters.
I'm a gun guy, I think standards should be higher, but, hell I think standards in general need to be higher.
https://y.yarn.co/1552d64d-98d5-43bf-b139-90b951f84ec0_text.mp4?1577692971737
:cool:
:cool:
:cool:
I agree that marksmanship standards should be higher, but I don't think that training should be at the expensive of training that will help them avoid shooting situations, or other safety training such as vehicle operations.
There are over a half million police officers in the United States. If you look at harm to activity ratios (which was one of my things) police officers should, in order:
1) Never get on a police motorcycle;
2) Never get in a police aircraft;
3) Never get in a police vehicle:
4) Never get in a gun fight.
It is hard to really gather data about all LEO duty-related deaths, but several sources have claimed that only 10 to 20 percent of duty-related deaths are the result of hostile line-of-duty encounters.
I'm a gun guy, I think standards should be higher, but, hell I think standards in general need to be higher.
I don’t disagree. Driving schools are something that seems to be neglected, especially in smaller departments.
From data I’ve gathered, construction, agriculture, and transportation jobs are far more dangerous than LE or even military careers.
That said, marksmanship standards are laughable at this point. If the officer doesn’t want to be better for preservation of his or her life, he or she should for the preservation of others’ lives.
I think the shootout in Texas yesterday shows competency saves lives. Over five seconds for a draw...then you can see the others flagging the congregation.
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If you are consistently shooting 2"-3" groups at 25 yards with your Glock, your technique is working for you. If you are getting decent hits at 100 yards, it is definitely working for you.
Almost everyone teaches to some degree. Most of us teach friends and family how to shoot more efficiently. What are you teaching people to do that will minimize the movement of the pistol when you manipulate the trigger rapidly? A change in grip? A change in body position? Are there specific aspects about dry fire drills that reinforce your technique?
I would say it takes someone committed. I do teach friends and family, for those looking for “good enough” its basics and thats it.
If someone wants to get good, i gift them snap caps and tell them to smash the trigger one handed till the sight dont jump before going to live fire. Should only take 1-3 weeks. Ime its a combo of grip technique (how it feels when it works correctly). Keep doing that... and trigger- thinking of it in different ways.
For me: lock the wrists
Strong thumb high
Dig the “balls of your palm” into the frame
Smoosh the frame like your trying to squeeze the mag out(firm but not “hard”)
Imagine a string from index pad to index base joint in the palm, and pull like that string is pulling the finger
They key is that everyone will have a different feel for each piece and they have to take to time to isolate each and experiment in dry-fire to figure it out. All i can teach is the approach, they have to sit in their basement for hours with a snap cap and do the work.
Practice, practice, and more practice, followed by shooting and more shooting. That's all you need to accurize a G19.
https://i.imgur.com/EAtIFEC.jpg
TXPO
Mysteryman
01-08-20, 22:04
Practice, practice, and more practice, followed by shooting and more shooting. That's all you need to accurize a G19.
https://i.imgur.com/EAtIFEC.jpg
TXPO
Distance and tempo?
That guys from Texas.
Was a strong hand only mag dump at 25 yards while slamming a cowboy cold long neck Shiner. :cool:
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