View Full Version : Tactics vs. the restaurant take-over robbery
This one has always sounded like one of the toughest scenario's to deal with.
A rush of multiple armed attackers intent on robbing everyone in the place. (or ?)
Some factors:
-Sitting where you can see the entrance / approach?
-Cover / concealment available?
-Exits
-Bystanders
-The people you are with, if any
-Flee, Fight, or try to comply?
-How many bad guys? All armed? Chance of "undercover" bad guys?
-Backstop?
-Suitability / capability of your weapon?
Thoughts?
Three bad guys, at least two guns, one is an SKS:
https://www.khou.com/article/news/crime/caught-on-camera-3-men-wanted-in-violent-restaurant-robbery/285-4c22fd1a-5d49-4693-a0fa-1461fad47e28
This one involved eight people being tied up. I'm not being tied up.
https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/seatac-restaurant-robbed-in-take-over-style-robbery-several-customers-employees-tied-up/999622384
At an Outback Steakhouse:
https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law/armed-men-rob-outback-steakhouse-with-customers-inside-police-say/DL3sOI1fgt2zlMvyezfVwJ/#
One more. These aren't rare.
https://www.khou.com/article/news/crime/armed-customer-stops-restaurant-robbery-suspects-in-their-tracks/148742470
Not saying it doesn’t happen. Just having fun with the topic.
I would recommend always having a good view of likely entrances in public places.
I have a tendency to only hang out with certain people, which is part of the reason I have few friends. But these cats carry guns religiously.
There is little or no cover in the dining area of almost any resturaunt.
I’m as likely to dart the eff out as anything else.
Always be aware of exits and have a plan
Yea, a fast exit would be my first choice. Gotta look where the exits are.
Exit if possible.
Very situationally dependent, but from what Ive seen, your best chance is at the beginning. They are coming in to take control, once they have it you have less options. If they meet resistance in the doorway while still trying to assess the situation, they are more likely to abort.
If they do get control before you can react, best thing is to comply until you have an opportunity to make a move.
Don’t go to Brazil?
Happens in the States plenty, unfortunately.
https://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurant+robbery+customers+&qs=n&form=QBLH&sp=-1&pq=restaurant+robbery+customers+&sc=0-29&sk=&cvid=F10BCCF128484E21A76C23D110650BE5
Exit if possible.[/QUOTE
Best strategy, I always try to sit near an exit, preferably a locked exit - generally these are alarmed; also near the kitchen is an option, through the kitchen out the back door. Discuss you thought process with your family - those you hang with. Make sure that if you say 'kitchen exit, now' or 'out the door, now' there is no back talk or discussion. My kids rolled their eyes, but they knew where the exits were and knew what to do after they exited, after I had gone over it several times. There mon was a deputy, so she understood the process:
1) exit (going through the exit door or kitchen say robbery, come with us AFTER you have passed folks)
2) safety - cover and distance
3) communicate - call 911 after 1 and 2 are accomplished
4) be a witness
[QUOTE=MegademiC;2788693]Very situationally dependent, but from what Ive seen, your best chance is at the beginning. They are coming in to take control, once they have it you have less options. If they meet resistance in the doorway while still trying to assess the situation, they are more likely to abort.
Taking them as they come through the entrance is somewhat problematic if you don't get them all, or if they have associates who you didn't identify. Dependent on the restaurant type, it could end up as a they are outside and you are in the very visible box.
Under any circumstances, taking on multiple assailants single-handedly is problematic (DUH :) ) You have to put them down. Before adding that to your plan, realistically assess your ability - do you have the ability to deliver rapid precision shots on multiple targets, i.e. head shots at 15 to 20 feet. Can you shoot with precision while moving? Standing still in a gunfight with multiple adversaries is likely a recipe for disaster. This isn't Call of Duty where you get to reset - more than two assailants and your likelihood of prevailing is unlikely.
If they do get control before you can react, best thing is to comply until you have an opportunity to make a move.
Statistically complying and letting your money walk is the best alternative.
Think about what would cause you to deviate from that plan. I would become more concerned and ready to act if they started herding folks to back rooms or shot anyone.
I'm not going to go further other than saying that if you plan to win a gunfight you need to make it as unfair as possible for the other folks involved.
This always seemed like a tough scenario I couldn't come up with acceptable answers for besides, "get out if you can".
So I created this thread for comments and ideas.
It seems that if you see it coming you may be able to draw and start shooting as the bad guys enter the place. But if you have those few seconds you're probably better off using them to MOVE out.
If they come in shooting or want to tie people up / search everybody then your in a real pickle.
This always seemed like a tough scenario I couldn't come up with acceptable answers for besides, "get out if you can".
So I created this thread for comments and ideas.
It seems that if you see it coming you may be able to draw and start shooting as the bad guys enter the place. But if you have those few seconds you're probably better off using them to MOVE out.
If they come in shooting or want to tie people up / search everybody then your in a real pickle.
I think you also need to be aware of what is/has been going on in your AO.
As an example, if I was by the walk-ins in a local convenience store and an armed robbery went down, my actions would be initially be influenced by the recent history of armed robberies in the AO.
As an example, if the most recent cases have involved the clerks being harmed, the armed robber probably wouldn't even know he'd been in a rather one-sided gun fight. On the other hand, if the history is that the last year's worth of armed robbers have done nothing to harm the clerk's, I'm likely to hunker down and wait.
You have to do what you think is best and live with the outcome. You are on the right track thinking scenarios through before hand, better than making it up on the fly.
echo5whiskey
11-26-19, 15:58
I'm gonna say it. Hate me if you want. Whatever tactics/lack of you decide to employ, don't open carry---IMO.
Now that that's out of the way, I agree with 26 Inf. Comply until you can no longer do so safely. Whether or not you stand up for someone else's safety is a personal decision that you--or any number of other people--might have to live with for the rest of your life (or theirs). Do a realistic assessment of your success probability. If you believe it's in your favor, do what you have to do. If not, you may want to weigh your options. Don't be an unnecessary hero; but by all means, do the right thing if you can.
--the entire $.02 worth of my whole opinion.
One way or another you are probably going to get shot.
I agree with compliance until you either “get your turn” or it’s looking like they will kill you anyways.
At that point you are a had ass or at their mercy if you have not escaped.
StovePipe_Jammer
11-27-19, 19:44
Exit if possible.
Very situationally dependent, but from what Ive seen, your best chance is at the beginning. They are coming in to take control, once they have it you have less options. If they meet resistance in the doorway while still trying to assess the situation, they are more likely to abort.
If they do get control before you can react, best thing is to comply until you have an opportunity to make a move.
I agree with this. The bad guys are jazzed up and the "fight or flight juice" is pumping through their system before they're even in the door. Sudden unexpected resistance can easily turn fight into flight but it isn't guaranteed.
I believe they have initial control of the situation (where, when, how) but that only gets them in the door. Maintaining control of a fluid and high stress situation gets easier for them as time goes on and they adapt to the current problem. Either going rabbit or fighting back would be effective early on but gets harder the longer you wait. Throw them off balance, bail or wait.
If your assessment leads you to believe the window has passed and waiting is best, complying with their demands would probably be the safest bet. At that point, physically resisting would be absolute last resort.
The_War_Wagon
11-27-19, 22:29
Meh... it ain't that hard. Even us OLD guys can handle that. With a revolver. :cool:
http://youtu.be/HRcGizdJhtU
http://youtu.be/Wv_bnDeqYQg
DON'T forget your fortune cookie...
.44 Special instant one shot stops are an unfair advantage.
echo5whiskey
11-29-19, 14:50
I agree with this. The bad guys are jazzed up and the "fight or flight juice" is pumping through their system before they're even in the door. Sudden unexpected resistance can easily turn fight into flight but it isn't guaranteed.
I believe they have initial control of the situation (where, when, how) but that only gets them in the door. Maintaining control of a fluid and high stress situation gets easier for them as time goes on and they adapt to the current problem. Either going rabbit or fighting back would be effective early on but gets harder the longer you wait. Throw them off balance, bail or wait.
If your assessment leads you to believe the window has passed and waiting is best, complying with their demands would probably be the safest bet. At that point, physically resisting would be absolute last resort.
If you can fight effectively, with minimal risk, I don't see a problem with that. My only concern is that there will probably be other patrons who might be trying to flee themselves, and they can easily get caught in the crossfire. Do what you do, just be ready to live--or die--with the consequences.
One thing I'll add to solidify your idea of overwhelming them early on: I was browsing YouTube yesterday, and came across a news story from London of a guy who fought off three home invaders armed with knives. I'll try to add the link later, but it was pretty impressive.
Diamondback
11-29-19, 17:09
As a general rule, my priorities in this order: get my friends/family out, get myself out, get as many non-perps out with us as we can. Fight/Flight may change based on circumstances; if you're rolling Mickey D's meh whatever, but if this is MY favorite diner where I've made friends with the whole crew and you wave a weapon in MY favorite waitress's face, well I hope your Blue Cross is paid up. (Remember, that 'F&F First' mindset?)
Four friends died under similar circumstances at their favorite coffee spot ten years ago today (though that was a straight-up targeted cop-killing rather than a robbery), so I think on this pretty regularly--the last, hardest and most painful lesson I learned from them. RIP Mark, Ron, Tina, Greg.
vicious_cb
12-31-19, 10:58
See also: Pulp Fiction.
ftfy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPc9KyYyNl0
fallenangelhim
12-31-19, 11:55
I am a member of USCCA and they always have scenarios like this with maps of locations and pose those questions. I think knowing exits is important, not boxing yourself into a corner with no exit is important, being able to see the exits and entrance is important.
The Pulp Fiction scene is great, but very fictional.
Reality is more like this: (linked earlier)
https://www.khou.com/mobile/article/news/crime/caught-on-camera-3-men-wanted-in-violent-restaurant-robbery/285-4c22fd1a-5d49-4693-a0fa-1461fad47e28
I'm going with stay in yellow, watch who walks in, run to exit / cover / concealment if you can.
Fight if you must and the best time is at the very beginning.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.