View Full Version : Virginia 2A Sanctuary Ciity / County - Please share
A few cities and counties are trying to become 2nd Amendment sanctuaries.
Please share as much as can. As usual the media coverage is as follows...
' New Kent, Hanover and Prince George are declaring themselves 2nd Amendment sanctuaries and gun control advocates are concerned' --- that's it! That's the message in the media.
Tonight I got this message from one of the few outdoor ranges left near central VA.
Gang....
Please, Please, Please....Be aware that we as citizens of the commonwealth need to stand together and fight for our rights!!!!!
Public Hearings are going to be in the near future...Please support all the area counties with the push on becoming a 2A Sanctuary.
Chesterfield Co., Dec., 11th 7::00pm
Hanover Co., Dec.,11th 7:00pm
Prince George Co., Dec., 10th 7:00pm
We need everyone to support our local counties and their push to become 2A Sanctuary County!!
Here is something I found for Henrico County which I didn't even know had held a hearing. This vid is good regardless of where you live.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGaauX7JsFk
Please spread the word.
Just saw this.. Read somewhere 22 VA counties are sanctuary 2A, can't verify.
Virginia Democrats Filing Proposals To Begin ‘Confiscation’ Of Lawfully Owned Firearms, Second Amendment Reporter
https://www.dailywire.com/news/virginia-democrats-filing-proposals-to-begin-confiscation-of-lawfully-owned-firearms-second-amendment-reporter-says/
I'm not sure what's what yet either. This is dated Nov. 21
Read more: https://www.ammoland.com/2019/11/second-amendment-sanctuary-movement-continues-to-lock-down-virginia-counties/#ixzz676r0A9Fi
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution
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Virginia – -(AmmoLand.com)-The Second Amendment Sanctuary movement continued to steamroll through Virginia counties and shows no sign of slowing down as law-abiding Virginia gun owners demand that County Supervisors make their stand against Governor Northam's & Democrat's pending threat to gut the Second Amendment.
Lee County becomes Virginia's Ninth 2A Sanctuary!
Article covering the resolution votes by some of the new Sanctuary counties
Correction on Accomack County contact information ��
Action item: Agusta County to consider 2A Sanctuary resolution
Action Item: Bedford County to consider 2A Sanctuary resolution
Action Item: Pulaski County to consider 2A Sanctuary resolution
Action item: Shenandoah County to consider 2A Sanctuary resolution
Action Item: Contact Chesterfield County Board of Supervisors about 2A Sanctuary resolution
Action Item: Contact Fauquier County Board of Supervisors about 2A Sanctuary resolution and meeting
Action Item: Contact James City County Board of Supervisors about 2A Sanctuary resolution
Action Item: Contact Orange County Board of Supervisors about 2A Sanctuary resolution
Action Item: Contact Radford City Council about 2A Sanctuary resolution
Massive turnouts continue – Amelia County photos
1. Lee County becomes Virginia's Ninth 2A Sanctuary!
https://wcyb.com/news/local/lee-co-becomes-second-amendment-sanctuary-sheriff-says-gun-rights-will-not-be-infringed?
Excellent pro-2A testimony given by a citizen during a Suffolk Co VA Board of Supervisors meeting, during a discussion about declaring the county a 2A sanctuary.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hK_w8sNMEoE&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR3tLBNAxGAVlvpxCtNij0evVmYc7HoQSrS5K4UJH-xinuPlmrMQDHCx93Q
I live in Delaware currently and I never thought I'd say it, but looks like we're one of the last "freeish" states in the area. Now mind you, our illustrious state government has tried and failed the past two years in a row to enact incredibly unlawful gun laws, but we've been able to defeat them both times. And wouldn't you know it? The same old critters have already promised to bring the failed bills and a few new ones back for a vote again this year, we live in fraught times gents.
With that said, we still ain't as free as one would like. You can't possess a silencer in our state and you want a CCW? Better be prepared to have your name and address published in your local paper than .. those are just a couple of the dumb*** gun laws that come to mind. But we still don't have a mag ban and we still don't have an "assault weapon ban", but they're trying, that's for sure.
Stay strong VA, hopefully enough people will make their voices heard and you'll be able to stop this before it's made into law.
As of 12-5-19 there are 43 Second Amendment Sanctuary counties, towns, and cities. List courtesy of VCDL.org
Alleghany
Amherst
Appomattox
Augusta
Bland
Botetourt
Buchanan
Campbell
Carroll
Charlotte
Culpeper County
Dickenson
Dinwiddie
Town of Exmore
Giles
Gloucester
Goochland
Greensville
Halifax
Henry
King George
King William
Lee
Louisa
Madison
Middlesex
Norton
Nottoway
Orange
Page
Patrick
Pittsylvania
Powhatan
Rappahannock
Roanoke County
Rural Retreat
Russell
Scott
Southampton
Sussex
Tazewell County
Washington
Wythe
If only the concept of “sanctuary cities” mattered as much to the ATF as they do to ICE.
If only the concept of “sanctuary cities” mattered as much to the ATF as they do to ICE.
The caveat here being in said AORs the locals don’t like or flat out refuse to work with ICE, but errybody loves them some gun charging stats.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If only the concept of “sanctuary cities” mattered as much to the ATF as they do to ICE.
Yea - the Kettler case from earlier this year blessed that. At this point a victory in the courts/legislature is a pipe dream. When has the .gov ever materially relaxed arms regulations? Lezbereal.
Yea - the Kettler case from earlier this year blessed that. At this point a victory in the courts/legislature is a pipe dream. When has the .gov ever materially relaxed arms regulations? Lezbereal.
Maybe the lesbians will save us. I hope so.
Hot lesbians who look like young blossoming men but secretly like to bake.
Lezbeoptimistic.
Lezbefrenz
https://www.wric.com/news/virginia-news/ag-herring-on-2nd-amendment-sanctuary-resolutions-no-legal-affect-whatsoever/amp/
"AG Herring on 2nd Amendment sanctuary resolutions: ‘No legal effect whatsoever’"
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-06-19, 08:48
Maybe the lesbians will save us. I hope so.
Hot lesbians who look like young blossoming men but secretly like to bake.
Lezbeoptimistic.
Lezbefrenz
Snap, snap.
Come back to us Firefly...
This is all just virtue signaling and pandering to local voters. Correct me if I’m wrong but:
Do any of these resolutions say that the commonwealths’ attorneys will refuse to prosecute violations of the new laws? Have the sheriffs publicly stated that none of their deputies will enforce? Will the deputies stand in front of State police and be willing to draw on them if they persist in enforcing these abusive laws? What about gun stores in these areas? Will they be allowed to continue to sell arms and magazines that have been banned?
This seems to be a bunch of feel good BS. There’s no firm wording in any of it. Nobody is going to shield us against these f#ckers. Nobody’s coming.
And then there is this:
"Virginia Sheriff vows to deputize residents in response to potential gun restrictions"
https://www.wdbj7.com/content/news/Virginia-Sheriff-vows-to-deputize-residents-ahead-of-potential-565924821.html
And then there is this:
"Virginia Sheriff vows to deputize residents in response to potential gun restrictions"
https://www.wdbj7.com/content/news/Virginia-Sheriff-vows-to-deputize-residents-ahead-of-potential-565924821.html
Oh that could work. That’ll do nicely
https://youtu.be/Jo3_ie_Cr94
As for Virginia AG Herring and his Gestapo rhetoric.
SS-Hauptsturmführer Gottlieb Hering, last commandant of Bełżec extermination camp during Operation Reinhard. Hering directly perpetrated the genocide of Jews and other peoples during The Holocaust.
They didn't like anybody but themselves having guns either...
BoringGuy45
12-07-19, 20:07
https://www.wric.com/news/virginia-news/ag-herring-on-2nd-amendment-sanctuary-resolutions-no-legal-affect-whatsoever/amp/
"AG Herring on 2nd Amendment sanctuary resolutions: ‘No legal effect whatsoever’"
No legal affect at all. If anything, it's illegal. The state said "turn in your weapons," the counties are saying "molon labe." It is a threat of armed rebellion.
I hope I'm right, but I think the Dems are going to blink on this one. If people start dying over this, it's not going to end well for them and they know it. If the Dems finally show they are willing to kill to enforce their will, they can kiss 2020 goodbye, and probably 2024 as well.
No legal affect at all. If anything, it's illegal. The state said "turn in your weapons," the counties are saying "molon labe." It is a threat of armed rebellion.
I hope I'm right, but I think the Dems are going to blink on this one. If people start dying over this, it's not going to end well for them and they know it. If the Dems finally show they are willing to kill to enforce their will, they can kiss 2020 goodbye, and probably 2024 as well.
The terribly sad part is, I fear, that LEOs and citizens will die during raids, but not these authoritarian despots that enacted these laws. They’ll get people they hate shooting at each other while they sit in their chambers.
The vast overwhelming majority of LEOs I know will not participate in the removal of their communities civil rights. That’s NOT why they became police, to abuse their people. So hopefully the small number that will follow orders won’t put a target on everyone elses back.
Horrible situation. Never been much of a prayer guy, but lately I’ve been asking for peace and reason
Diamondback
12-09-19, 18:36
Tell you this, if I was Sheriff of a Red county in a Blue-ing state, my first thought would be to not grandstand about it but quietly swear in as "special reserves" anyone who was interested that I couldn't find Good Cause to DQ. Then after I had every possible gun owner in the county sworn in, ask them to assemble on the courthouse steps with their first-line tools of choice and THEN make the announcement.
It seems country is practicing with red flag laws to see how the cops will react to "orders given". So far like good little sheep they are doing what the sheppard is saying.
With all these posts I keep reading about cops being pro gun, why are we not seeing news stories about them saying "eff you I'm not doing that"?
What I am seeing is, the wrong people losing their possessions or people being gunned down by cops at zero dark thirty.
Don't fool yourself, cops care about their pension and your rights rank very low on their priority list. If you think I am wrong, why are we not seeing them fight the red flag garbage in 15 states now as opposed to violating due process requirements everyday?
The sanctuary stuff has no teeth (that I can see), so don't get fooled by it.
BoringGuy45
12-10-19, 09:27
It seems country is practicing with red flag laws to see how the cops will react to "orders given". So far like good little sheep they are doing what the sheppard is saying.
With all these posts I keep reading about cops being pro gun, why are we not seeing news stories about them saying "eff you I'm not doing that"?
What I am seeing is, the wrong people losing their possessions or people being gunned down by cops at zero dark thirty.
Don't fool yourself, cops care about their pension and your rights rank very low on their priority list. If you think I am wrong, why are we not seeing them fight the red flag garbage in 15 states now as opposed to violating due process requirements everyday?
The sanctuary stuff has no teeth (that I can see), so don't get fooled by it.
First, immigration sanctuary cities have been very "successful", in that they've stifled quite a few immigration investigations.
Second, the reason you never seen stories about cops refusing to follow red flag laws for the same reason you never see stories about armed citizens preventing mass shootings: It doesn't fit the leftist narrative.
Third, if anything has had no teeth as of late, it's been the red flag laws. While we may have a legitimate fear of these laws being abused, I haven't seen exactly what we've feared. Every news story I could find involved the person having their guns seized after doing something that would have resulted in gun seizure without the red flag laws. There's really been nothing to fight on that front yet.
I understand that the police are not 100% united on guns. There are many who are anti-gun on principle and are licking their chops to kick down some doors and take some guns. There are many who believe they are morally and legally obligated to enforce any law if/until it's overturned whether or not they agree with it. And there are those like the ones you're talking about: Pension and benefits outweigh principles.
However, I can tell you from firsthand experience, and from being a cop, that they are in the minority. Remember, many cops ARE at risk here with their own personal guns. Many states, and I'm sure VA will be no different, prohibit police officers from owning prohibited weapons for personal use. I live in a ban state, and cops can only purchase "assault weapons" for duty use, and they have to have a letter from the police chief saying so. Once they retire, they have to turn that weapon in. They also can't carry 10+ round magazines while off duty even if they are department issued. So far, in my state, the only arrests for assault weapons laws have been of felons who weren't supposed to have any gun in the first place.
Also, cops know that they would be going to war to serve the very people who hate them, against the very people who support them. The life of a police officer these days is not a cushy one that makes your average rank and file cop want to do anything to keep his status.
In these deep red VA counties, they have the support of the people, the county government, and the sheriff in fighting the anti-gun state policies. This is as good as it's going to get for a cop: A chance to fight back against the leftists who have been making their lives miserable.
https://www.wric.com/news/virginia-news/ag-herring-on-2nd-amendment-sanctuary-resolutions-no-legal-affect-whatsoever/amp/
"AG Herring on 2nd Amendment sanctuary resolutions: ‘No legal effect whatsoever’"
I could see this end up in federal court. The courts will have to affirm that either all 'sanctuary jurisdictions' are legal, or all are illegal. Can't pick and choose; force ICE out but welcome ATF in.
Third, if anything has had no teeth as of late, it's been the red flag laws. While we may have a legitimate fear of these laws being abused, I haven't seen exactly what we've feared. Every news story I could find involved the person having their guns seized after doing something that would have resulted in gun seizure without the red flag laws. There's really been nothing to fight on that front yet.
I'd say this is an example where the gentleman's firearms and CCW permit should not have been seized:
https://www.mvtimes.com/2019/10/11/crossing-guard-relieved-duty-guns-seized/
The community has since demanded Mr Nichols be reinstated as a crossing guard, but I've heard nothing of his firearms or CCW being returned.
First, immigration sanctuary cities have been very "successful", in that they've stifled quite a few immigration investigations.
Second, the reason you never seen stories about cops refusing to follow red flag laws for the same reason you never see stories about armed citizens preventing mass shootings: It doesn't fit the leftist narrative.
Third, if anything has had no teeth as of late, it's been the red flag laws. While we may have a legitimate fear of these laws being abused, I haven't seen exactly what we've feared. Every news story I could find involved the person having their guns seized after doing something that would have resulted in gun seizure without the red flag laws. There's really been nothing to fight on that front yet.
I understand that the police are not 100% united on guns. There are many who are anti-gun on principle and are licking their chops to kick down some doors and take some guns. There are many who believe they are morally and legally obligated to enforce any law if/until it's overturned whether or not they agree with it. And there are those like the ones you're talking about: Pension and benefits outweigh principles.
However, I can tell you from firsthand experience, and from being a cop, that they are in the minority. Remember, many cops ARE at risk here with their own personal guns. Many states, and I'm sure VA will be no different, prohibit police officers from owning prohibited weapons for personal use. I live in a ban state, and cops can only purchase "assault weapons" for duty use, and they have to have a letter from the police chief saying so. Once they retire, they have to turn that weapon in. They also can't carry 10+ round magazines while off duty even if they are department issued. So far, in my state, the only arrests for assault weapons laws have been of felons who weren't supposed to have any gun in the first place.
Also, cops know that they would be going to war to serve the very people who hate them, against the very people who support them. The life of a police officer these days is not a cushy one that makes your average rank and file cop want to do anything to keep his status.
In these deep red VA counties, they have the support of the people, the county government, and the sheriff in fighting the anti-gun state policies. This is as good as it's going to get for a cop: A chance to fight back against the leftists who have been making their lives miserable.
First, What teeth does the sanctuary for gun laws have, how exactly will they prevent anything negative is what I am asking?
Second, We have a local newspaper that prints EVERYTHING about cops. My state doesn't have those laws yet, but once we do I guarantee that some of these small papers will report about a cop saying "I'm not doing that". With all the cops posting on all these gun forums you can't honestly believe that a cop has said "I'm not doing that" and it went unnoticed? I would post about it if I had knowledge of it, and would probably buy the cop a lunch if they were local for "doing the right thing". I have not once heard of this happening from any source, so left agenda might be a stretch on this one.
Third, You say red flag laws have no teeth, please explain? I am seeing the wrong people getting their guns taken, people getting killed, innocent veterans getting their lives turned upside down. This sure as hell seems to me like the teeth are biting the public rather hard. What I don't see is anything protecting the innocent from the liars and police, that should be what concerns people.
You said every news story has involved people that would lose guns anyway, even without red flag laws.
1) https://www.ammoland.com/2019/08/florida-man-has-firearms-rights-taken-away-over-mistaken-identity/#axzz5x3496KJU
2) https://www.wnd.com/2019/10/elderly-vets-guns-confiscated-voices-concern-potential-school-shooting/
3) http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive2.cgi?read=111169
3) https://www.cbsnews.com/news/maryland-officers-serving-red-flag-gun-removal-order-fatally-shoot-armed-man/
Here are three examples, yes number three has two different link. If you don't like the "source" there are many others feel free to look at others. My point being ONE is to many, I gave three so we should be able to agree that it is happening. If we can't agree on this it will boil down to us vs them again.
As for cops being prohibited from weapons….. Not in my state. A year or two back a local department had two cops that couldn't posses a gun off duty but carried at work, I don't know about you but I see all sorts of WTF in that. One involved domestic violance and the other involved probation for multiple dui.
You say deep in VA the sheriff is fighting, that is great. What happens if a local or state cops enforces the laws that the sheriff refuses to, will the sheriff arrest the other LEO? If not there are no teeth in that sanctuary claim. If they will, then I stand corrected.
You say many police believe they are morally obligated to uphold bad laws, that is where the problem lies. I am told most new cops have to have college education, that makes it even worse, since they learn what rights a person has in college then go out and violate them dealing with these red flag laws.
I am basing this off of what an attorney has told me about why my state doesn't have red flag laws yet, even though they have had bills for them the last few years. Something about them being overturned due to violations of folks rights.
BoringGuy45
12-10-19, 18:27
First, What teeth does the sanctuary for gun laws have, how exactly will they prevent anything negative is what I am asking?
Lack of cooperation makes things tough to begin with. Second, if these counties are really ready to stand firm, it’ll be unlikely that state cops would want to shoot it out with local cops. They want to go home at the end of the shift. Most are going to conclude that confiscating firearms from law abiding citizens is not worth dying for.
Second, We have a local newspaper that prints EVERYTHING about cops. My state doesn't have those laws yet, but once we do I guarantee that some of these small papers will report about a cop saying "I'm not doing that". With all the cops posting on all these gun forums you can't honestly believe that a cop has said "I'm not doing that" and it went unnoticed? I would post about it if I had knowledge of it, and would probably buy the cop a lunch if they were local for "doing the right thing". I have not once heard of this happening from any source, so left agenda might be a stretch on this one.
Most cops I know are being pretty open on social media about their refusal to participate in red flag laws, AWB enforcement, etc.
Third, You say red flag laws have no teeth, please explain? I am seeing the wrong people getting their guns taken, people getting killed, innocent veterans getting their lives turned upside down. This sure as hell seems to me like the teeth are biting the public rather hard. What I don't see is anything protecting the innocent from the liars and police, that should be what concerns people.
You said every news story has involved people that would lose guns anyway, even without red flag laws.
1) https://www.ammoland.com/2019/08/florida-man-has-firearms-rights-taken-away-over-mistaken-identity/#axzz5x3496KJU
2) https://www.wnd.com/2019/10/elderly-vets-guns-confiscated-voices-concern-potential-school-shooting/
3) http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive2.cgi?read=111169
3) https://www.cbsnews.com/news/maryland-officers-serving-red-flag-gun-removal-order-fatally-shoot-armed-man/
Here are three examples, yes number three has two different link. If you don't like the "source" there are many others feel free to look at others. My point being ONE is to many, I gave three so we should be able to agree that it is happening. If we can't agree on this it will boil down to us vs them again.
Ok, I stand corrected that there are NO examples. Those are very disturbing. I would like to know if there is more to the story for each of those, but if not, isolated as they may be, that’s not good.
As for cops being prohibited from weapons….. Not in my state. A year or two back a local department had two cops that couldn't posses a gun off duty but carried at work, I don't know about you but I see all sorts of WTF in that. One involved domestic violance and the other involved probation for multiple dui.
Your state doesn’t have an AWB or mag capacity limits. Mine does. Cops are not exempt from restrictions against owning prohibited weapons for personal use. They can own them, keep them at home, but only use them for duty.
You say deep in VA the sheriff is fighting, that is great. What happens if a local or state cops enforces the laws that the sheriff refuses to, will the sheriff arrest the other LEO? If not there are no teeth in that sanctuary claim. If they will, then I stand corrected.[\quote]
He can refuse to book the arrestee into his jail. Also, we both live in states with large state police forces. In VA, the VSP is much smaller as they mostly do highway duty and not much else. The county is the center of government in VA. The sheriffs also preside over much larger agencies than that state police, and county law enforcement has primary jurisdiction and ranks at the top of the chain of command in any given situation in their county.
[quote]You say many police believe they are morally obligated to uphold bad laws, that is where the problem lies. I am told most new cops have to have college education, that makes it even worse, since they learn what rights a person has in college then go out and violate them dealing with these red flag laws.
Such officers are a problem, no doubt. My point is that a significant amount are not like that. Many will either refuse passive aggressively (“Didn’t see nothin’”) secretly sabotage anti-gun efforts, or stand beside the citizens. As I said before, the same ones wanting to send the cops in to take guns are the same ones that’ll call them a bunch of racists and throw them in jail the second it’s politically convenient. People don’t want to go into harms way to do something they are morally against on the orders of somebody they hate who they know will betray them.
I don’t think requiring college has created a problem. If anything, in my experience as a cop, the cops most willing to blindly follow orders were the ones without college, especially a lot of military guys.
I am basing this off of what an attorney has told me about why my state doesn't have red flag laws yet, even though they have had bills for them the last few years. Something about them being overturned due to violations of folks rights.
I think they’ll eventually get overturned, or at least neutered, in most cases.
platoonDaddy
12-11-19, 12:12
It's just a trick to slow down the Dem's gun control/confiscation opposition. They'll let you keep them as long as you submit a list of what you have. BS
https://freebeacon.com/issues/virginia-dems-cave-on-confiscation-as-2a-sanctuaries-expand/
Virginia Democratic leaders abandoned their gun confiscation proposal Monday following a grassroots outpouring of opposition to gun control across the state.
Governor Ralph Northam (D.) and incoming Senate majority leader Dick Saslaw (D.) said they will no longer pursue their marquee plan to ban the possession of "assault weapons." Instead, they will include a provision to allow Virginians to keep the firearms they already own. The reversal comes before the newly elected Democratic majority has even been sworn in, after a majority of the state's counties declared themselves "Second Amendment sanctuaries."
"In this case, the governor's assault weapons ban will include a grandfather clause for individuals who already own assault weapons, with the requirement they register their weapons before the end of a designated grace period," Northam spokeswoman Alena Yarmosky told the Virginia Mercury.
“They” will let you keep them and your “allowed” don’t apply to real believers of freedom.
Tell you this, if I was Sheriff of a Red county in a Blue-ing state, my first thought would be to not grandstand about it but quietly swear in as "special reserves" anyone who was interested that I couldn't find Good Cause to DQ. Then after I had every possible gun owner in the county sworn in, ask them to assemble on the courthouse steps with their first-line tools of choice and THEN make the announcement.
Sounds good. Would immediately differentiate those who mean it versus those just saying it and have a better chance at being effective.
It's just a trick to slow down the Dem's gun control/confiscation opposition. They'll let you keep them as long as you submit a list of what you have. BS
https://freebeacon.com/issues/virginia-dems-cave-on-confiscation-as-2a-sanctuaries-expand/
And they'll still ban transfer and purchase, so your kids and grand kids will still be SOL...
Not a compromise, or at least not one worth considering, but the media will carry Northam's water in an effort to make it look like he's making a reasonable effort at compromise, while the VA 2A community are being "unreasonable" and "extremists."
Would any of you have a serious disagreement with the following:
Universal Background Checks WITHOUT a registry. How it could work:
You go to sell a firearm private-party. Your buyer must hand you an official background check form that states he is gtg, not a prohibited possessor. You the seller must provide him with a copy of your ID. You the seller must keep his background form just in case the weapon you just sold finds its way to a crime scene, you’ll have documentation.
It ’s nearly the way it works right now, except now it isn’t mandated by law. But most private party sellers require “good guy papers” anyways, just to CYA.
It’s a win win: the Dems can state that they’re making moves to stop prohibited possessors of firearms from getting them, and we don’t end up on a registration database of “future addresses to raid in a few years when we ban a possession of ARs”
Diamondback
12-11-19, 20:47
Sounds good. Would immediately differentiate those who mean it versus those just saying it and have a better chance at being effective.
Thinking here is, basically give Neighborhood Watch a little more teeth. :) "This community takes care of itself and its own, we don't want or need you outsiders meddling."
BoringGuy45
12-11-19, 23:27
Would any of you have a serious disagreement with the following:
Universal Background Checks WITHOUT a registry. How it could work:
You go to sell a firearm private-party. Your buyer must hand you an official background check form that states he is gtg, not a prohibited possessor. You the seller must provide him with a copy of your ID. You the seller must keep his background form just in case the weapon you just sold finds its way to a crime scene, you’ll have documentation.
It ’s nearly the way it works right now, except now it isn’t mandated by law. But most private party sellers require “good guy papers” anyways, just to CYA.
It’s a win win: the Dems can state that they’re making moves to stop prohibited possessors of firearms from getting them, and we don’t end up on a registration database of “future addresses to raid in a few years when we ban a possession of ARs”
Awhile ago, I would have said, yes, dangle a feelgood carrot that does next to nothing in terms of infringement in exchange for a right that has been infringed upon, i.e. what you're suggesting in exchanged for universal carry, removal of SBRs or suppressors from the NFA, etc.
However, the left is going all out on bans. There hasn't been a proposal of this level of anti-2A legislation ever. In all the various infringements, we're seeing serious calls for confiscation for the first time. They are expanding the definition of banned weapons WAY beyond the 94 ban, WAY beyond even CA's draconian laws. They aren't willing to take anything less than a ban.
We stand our ground now. It's like Darth Vader's deal with Lando: Give us Solo, I'll leave Laia and Chewie with you, and the Empire will leave your operation alone. Then, once Vader got everything he wanted, he double crossed Lando and the Empire took control of the Cloud City anyway. That's what they're doing here.
Diamondback
12-12-19, 01:30
We stand our ground now. It's like Darth Vader's deal with Lando: Give us Solo, I'll leave Laia and Chewie with you, and the Empire will leave your operation alone. Then, once Vader got everything he wanted, he double crossed Lando and the Empire took control of the Cloud City anyway. That's what they're doing here.
Precisely. There are two things you can universally count on from Gun-Grabbing Garbage: They NEVER quit, and they ALWAYS welsh on any deal you make with them.
https://www.naturalnews.com/2019-12-11-virginia-gov-northam-building-kill-list-of-patriots-mandatory-gun-registration.html
Baby-butchering Virginia Gov. Northam building a KILL LIST of patriots to exterminate; calls it “mandatory gun registration”
Wednesday, December 11, 2019 by: Mike Adams
Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam — perhaps best known for wearing blackface and celebrating the infanticide of healthy, living human babies — is now promoting the creation of a kill list of patriots who will, if history repeats itself, be hunted down and murdered by the authoritarian state. After all, a corrupt, anti-liberty government that’s willing to kill human infants is also willing to murder its own citizens in the streets. The kill list construction effort is being called “mandatory gun registration,” and it’s the pillar of Gov. Northam’s newest tyrannical scheme for turning the State of Virginia into a Democrat-run prison camp where no human being is free.
Gov. Ralph Northam — whose family owned 84 slaves — is best known for insisting that when a human child is born alive and healthy, it should be “kept comfortable” until the mother decides to have it murdered after birth, in the name of “women’s health.” This is infanticide, pure and simple, and it is a felony crime of premeditated murder.
Yet Gov. Northam openly endorses that murder, claiming that the State of Virginia allows such murders to be carried out in unlimited numbers, apparently at any age of the child.
Now, this child murderer wants to push “gun registration.” Under a tyrannical regime that promotes murder, gun registration serves only one purpose: So that the corrupt, murderous, treasonous state can know where to find all the patriots and gun owners. Why is this information desired by the criminal state government? Obviously, it’s because Democrats plan to do something the citizens might shoot them for attempting to carry out.
“[T]he governor’s assault weapons ban will include a grandfather clause for individuals who already own assault weapons, with the requirement they register their weapons before the end of a designated grace period,” said Northam spokeswoman Alena Yarmosky, as covered by VirginiaMercury.com.
Notice that Gov. Northam is not calling for a disarmament of the Virginia State Police, local police departments or even his own armed security personnel. As is true with all gun control tyrants, Northam intends for his own Democrats to keep their guns, while first “registering” and then confiscating all guns from private citizens.
Gun registration is the prelude to gun confiscation, then “democide”
Any Virginian who is stupid enough to register their firearms with the state will very quickly discover that gun registration is the prelude to gun confiscation, followed by genocide against all patriots. The only reason the corrupt state needs to know where all the gun owners live is because they plan to go door to door, confiscating all those guns at gunpoint, ultimately followed by the mass murder of conservatives, patriots, gun owners, Trump supports and Christians.
After all, this is what Democrats now demand: The complete extermination of their political opponents. “Coexistence” is an alien concept to intolerant, bigoted, lawless Democrats who are desperately trying to overthrow the nation by impeaching Trump under flimsy, farcical accusations of “abuse of power.”
Listen to my podcast about gun control myths:
“Democide” is government-sanctioned murder of targeted citizens
In the last century or so, governments have murdered 262 million human beings, and much of it took place after gun confiscation first disarmed the citizens. See the following timeline chart, which details the mass deaths of over a quarter of a billion human beings, all carried out by corrupt, genocidal governments that think and act exactly like the Democrats in America today:
Note that the chart is represented in thousands, so the “262,000” at the end means 262 million.
What the timeline shows is that corrupt, tyrannical governments routinely carry out mass murder of their political opponents. One reason this hasn’t happened in modern America is because of the Second Amendment: Citizens owning guns keeps tyranny in check by causing would-be tyrants and genocidal maniacs who run government to rethink their plans in the context of citizens returning fire.
Hence the urgent need for gun registration, followed by gun confiscation. The prisoners living in the “prison camp” known as the State of Virginia must first be disarmed. Only then can the genocide succeed and finally “rid” the state of those pesky patriots, Trump supporters, Christians and scary gun owners.
Also read this important article from 2018: Question for anti-gun protesters: When the government death squads come for your loved ones, how will you stop them?
ANALYSIS: The civil war may begin in Virginia as the citizens rise up and take back their state from the treasonous tyrants in Richmond
It’s looking increasingly likely that Virginia is going to be the flashpoint for the start of America’s second civil war. The Democrats have decided they absolutely will not stop until every conservative Virginian is disarmed, silenced (through the censorship of the tech giants), criminalized and exterminated. Remember: Democrats have zero tolerance for anyone other than a filthy Democrat.
But Virginians simply won’t put up with that nonsense. There are already 40+ counties in Virginia that have declared themselves to be “gun sanctuary” counties, meaning they will not surrender to the tyranny of the treasonous Democrats in Richmond.
The Virginia Citizens Defense League, for example — www.vcdl.org — is already organizing mass protests against the treasonous Democrats who openly admit they are working to violate the basic civil rights of all Virginians. (The right to keep and bear arms is one of America’s oldest civil rights.) The VCDL now cites 78 Second Amendment counties, towns and cities in Virginia. Click here to read the VCDL’s warning about red flag gun laws and how they threaten the liberty of everyone.
Here are some photos from recent county meetings in Virginia, where citizens are demanding Second Amendment sanctuary status:
As expected, Democrats in the state are now trying to paint all gun owners as racist, dangerous bigots in order to justify killing them all. A treasonous, anti-liberty Democrat named Del. Jay Jones, D-Norfolk, is demanding that the Governor declare gun sanctuaries to be illegal so that Democrats can demand the arrest and incarceration of all gun owners who are also being painted as racist extremists and even “domestic terrorists.”
Note that a proposed new law in Virginia, SB64, would criminalize all firearms instruction in the state, including concealed carry classes and private instruction where a father, for example, might teach his son how to shoot a shotgun. Both father and son would become instant felons under the tyrannical new laws being aggressively pushed by Democrats, who are lawless, baby murdering criminals that must be stopped. The law, SB64, would deem all gun instruction as “paramilitary activity,” essentially equating it with domestic terrorism.
But as usual, it’s the government itself that operates as a terrorist organization, allowing unlimited illegal immigration of violent criminals while demanding the disarmament of the citizens so that no person has any right to defend herself against the lawless “utopia” engineered by destructive Dems. It seems increasingly likely that the citizens of Virginia will soon have no choice but to march on Richmond and carry out the mass citizens’ arrests of the treasonous tyrants like Ralph Northam who are violating the constitutionally protected civil rights of all Virginians.
The Second Amendment, in turns out, was written into the Constitution for precisely these circumstances when tyrannical government seeks to enslave the People and refuses to abide by the rule of law.
Stay tuned to see what happens, but don’t be surprised if the second civil war is ignited in Virginia, where “death to tyrants” is the state slogan. Is it time for that slogan to be reinvigorated? We’ll see…
Would any of you have a serious disagreement with the following:
Universal Background Checks WITHOUT a registry. How it could work:
You go to sell a firearm private-party. Your buyer must hand you an official background check form that states he is gtg, not a prohibited possessor. You the seller must provide him with a copy of your ID. You the seller must keep his background form just in case the weapon you just sold finds its way to a crime scene, you’ll have documentation.
It ’s nearly the way it works right now, except now it isn’t mandated by law. But most private party sellers require “good guy papers” anyways, just to CYA.
It’s a win win: the Dems can state that they’re making moves to stop prohibited possessors of firearms from getting them, and we don’t end up on a registration database of “future addresses to raid in a few years when we ban a possession of ARs”
YES I would
Because it won’t stop there. It never does....
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
These are not compromises. These are concessions.
You GET things in a Compromise.
I’d accept UBCs IF they re-opened the NFA for Full Auto, made suppressors cash and carry, and recognized CCWs nationwide like they do drivers licenses and abolished LEOSA(despite it benefiting me).
Give to get.
We just give and give and get nothing.
I have no problem with UBC IF I get those compromises.
https://www.naturalnews.com/2019-12-11-virginia-gov-northam-building-kill-list-of-patriots-mandatory-gun-registration.html
Baby-butchering Virginia Gov. Northam building a KILL LIST of patriots to exterminate; calls it “mandatory gun registration”
Wednesday, December 11, 2019 by: Mike Adams
Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam — perhaps best known for wearing blackface and celebrating the infanticide of healthy, living human babies — is now promoting the creation of a kill list of patriots who will, if history repeats itself, be hunted down and murdered by the authoritarian state. After all, a corrupt, anti-liberty government that’s willing to kill human infants is also willing to murder its own citizens in the streets. The kill list construction effort is being called “mandatory gun registration,” and it’s the pillar of Gov. Northam’s newest tyrannical scheme for turning the State of Virginia into a Democrat-run prison camp where no human being is free.
Gov. Ralph Northam — whose family owned 84 slaves — is best known for insisting that when a human child is born alive and healthy, it should be “kept comfortable” until the mother decides to have it murdered after birth, in the name of “women’s health.” This is infanticide, pure and simple, and it is a felony crime of premeditated murder.
Yet Gov. Northam openly endorses that murder, claiming that the State of Virginia allows such murders to be carried out in unlimited numbers, apparently at any age of the child.
Now, this child murderer wants to push “gun registration.” Under a tyrannical regime that promotes murder, gun registration serves only one purpose: So that the corrupt, murderous, treasonous state can know where to find all the patriots and gun owners. Why is this information desired by the criminal state government? Obviously, it’s because Democrats plan to do something the citizens might shoot them for attempting to carry out.
“[T]he governor’s assault weapons ban will include a grandfather clause for individuals who already own assault weapons, with the requirement they register their weapons before the end of a designated grace period,” said Northam spokeswoman Alena Yarmosky, as covered by VirginiaMercury.com.
Notice that Gov. Northam is not calling for a disarmament of the Virginia State Police, local police departments or even his own armed security personnel. As is true with all gun control tyrants, Northam intends for his own Democrats to keep their guns, while first “registering” and then confiscating all guns from private citizens.
Gun registration is the prelude to gun confiscation, then “democide”
Any Virginian who is stupid enough to register their firearms with the state will very quickly discover that gun registration is the prelude to gun confiscation, followed by genocide against all patriots. The only reason the corrupt state needs to know where all the gun owners live is because they plan to go door to door, confiscating all those guns at gunpoint, ultimately followed by the mass murder of conservatives, patriots, gun owners, Trump supports and Christians.
After all, this is what Democrats now demand: The complete extermination of their political opponents. “Coexistence” is an alien concept to intolerant, bigoted, lawless Democrats who are desperately trying to overthrow the nation by impeaching Trump under flimsy, farcical accusations of “abuse of power.”
Listen to my podcast about gun control myths:
“Democide” is government-sanctioned murder of targeted citizens
In the last century or so, governments have murdered 262 million human beings, and much of it took place after gun confiscation first disarmed the citizens. See the following timeline chart, which details the mass deaths of over a quarter of a billion human beings, all carried out by corrupt, genocidal governments that think and act exactly like the Democrats in America today:
Note that the chart is represented in thousands, so the “262,000” at the end means 262 million.
What the timeline shows is that corrupt, tyrannical governments routinely carry out mass murder of their political opponents. One reason this hasn’t happened in modern America is because of the Second Amendment: Citizens owning guns keeps tyranny in check by causing would-be tyrants and genocidal maniacs who run government to rethink their plans in the context of citizens returning fire.
Hence the urgent need for gun registration, followed by gun confiscation. The prisoners living in the “prison camp” known as the State of Virginia must first be disarmed. Only then can the genocide succeed and finally “rid” the state of those pesky patriots, Trump supporters, Christians and scary gun owners.
Also read this important article from 2018: Question for anti-gun protesters: When the government death squads come for your loved ones, how will you stop them?
ANALYSIS: The civil war may begin in Virginia as the citizens rise up and take back their state from the treasonous tyrants in Richmond
It’s looking increasingly likely that Virginia is going to be the flashpoint for the start of America’s second civil war. The Democrats have decided they absolutely will not stop until every conservative Virginian is disarmed, silenced (through the censorship of the tech giants), criminalized and exterminated. Remember: Democrats have zero tolerance for anyone other than a filthy Democrat.
But Virginians simply won’t put up with that nonsense. There are already 40+ counties in Virginia that have declared themselves to be “gun sanctuary” counties, meaning they will not surrender to the tyranny of the treasonous Democrats in Richmond.
The Virginia Citizens Defense League, for example — www.vcdl.org — is already organizing mass protests against the treasonous Democrats who openly admit they are working to violate the basic civil rights of all Virginians. (The right to keep and bear arms is one of America’s oldest civil rights.) The VCDL now cites 78 Second Amendment counties, towns and cities in Virginia. Click here to read the VCDL’s warning about red flag gun laws and how they threaten the liberty of everyone.
Here are some photos from recent county meetings in Virginia, where citizens are demanding Second Amendment sanctuary status:
As expected, Democrats in the state are now trying to paint all gun owners as racist, dangerous bigots in order to justify killing them all. A treasonous, anti-liberty Democrat named Del. Jay Jones, D-Norfolk, is demanding that the Governor declare gun sanctuaries to be illegal so that Democrats can demand the arrest and incarceration of all gun owners who are also being painted as racist extremists and even “domestic terrorists.”
Note that a proposed new law in Virginia, SB64, would criminalize all firearms instruction in the state, including concealed carry classes and private instruction where a father, for example, might teach his son how to shoot a shotgun. Both father and son would become instant felons under the tyrannical new laws being aggressively pushed by Democrats, who are lawless, baby murdering criminals that must be stopped. The law, SB64, would deem all gun instruction as “paramilitary activity,” essentially equating it with domestic terrorism.
But as usual, it’s the government itself that operates as a terrorist organization, allowing unlimited illegal immigration of violent criminals while demanding the disarmament of the citizens so that no person has any right to defend herself against the lawless “utopia” engineered by destructive Dems. It seems increasingly likely that the citizens of Virginia will soon have no choice but to march on Richmond and carry out the mass citizens’ arrests of the treasonous tyrants like Ralph Northam who are violating the constitutionally protected civil rights of all Virginians.
The Second Amendment, in turns out, was written into the Constitution for precisely these circumstances when tyrannical government seeks to enslave the People and refuses to abide by the rule of law.
Stay tuned to see what happens, but don’t be surprised if the second civil war is ignited in Virginia, where “death to tyrants” is the state slogan. Is it time for that slogan to be reinvigorated? We’ll see…
Do you really think any of the hyperably in this article is helpful to anyone interested in the issue? The movement is so on our side, why do the waters need to be polluted by this. There is a lot of fair and good local reporting that can be shared about this and that can then be shared with people who dont understand the issue.
If you live in VA and are not yet a member of the Virginia Citizens Defense League please consider it (https://vcdl.org/join-VCDL) or at least a monetary gift (https://vcdl.org/Donate). We are extremely fortunate to have one of the best local gun lobbying organizations in the country!
Now at 84 Second Amendment Sanctuary counties, towns, and cities! - https://vcdl.org/
https://i.imgur.com/MVwa5ijh.jpg
Alleghany
Amherst
Appomattox
Augusta
Bath
Bedford
Big Stone Gap
Bland
Bluefield
Botetourt
Bristol
Brunswick
Buchanan
Buckingham
Campbell
Caroline
Carroll
Charlotte
Chesapeake
Colonial Heights
Craig
Crewe
Culpeper County
Cumberland
Dickenson
Dinwiddie
Town of Exmore
Floyd
Fluvanna County
Franklin (City)
Frederick
Galax
Giles
Gloucester
Goochland
Greene
Greensville
Town of Grottoes
Halifax
Hanover
Henrico
Henry
James City
King and Queen
King George
King William
Lee
Louisa
Madison
Martinsville
Mecklenburg County
Middlesex
Nelson
New Kent
Northampton
Norton
Nottoway
Orange
Page
Patrick
Pittsylvania
Poquoson
Powhatan
Prince George
Rappahannock
Roanoke County
Rockbridge
Rockingham
Rocky Mount
Rural Retreat
Russell
Scott
Shenandoah
Smyth
Southampton
Spotsylvania
Strasburg
Surry
Sussex
Tazewell County
Warren
Washington
Westmoreland
Wythe
As of this year in New Mexico, State law mandates any private sale of guns between non-family members to go thru an FFL and a NICS check. It is being largely ignored.
^ good on the ignored part.
Do you really think any of the hyperably in this article is helpful to anyone interested in the issue? The movement is so on our side, why do the waters need to be polluted by this. There is a lot of fair and good local reporting that can be shared about this and that can then be shared with people who dont understand the issue.
"... all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security..." T. Jefferson
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” ― Edmund Burke
I'd say that it is helpful, if for no other reason, men sometimes need to be stirred to action. Individuals and small groups may grumble and complain yet not take any action whatsoever to reduce or eliminate that which is making them miserable. There often has to be a realization of the likemindedness of a substantial number of others; and someone has to be the one to stir the pot.
I spent my youth in Northern Virginia and for those who don't know, that bumper sticker that used to be so popular 'Virginia is for Lovers'; started out as 'Virginia is for History Lovers'. I have friends I grew up with who still live there and communicate with them on a fairly regular basis and it sickens me what has become of the Commonwealth. I don't envision likeminded individuals or groups going to Virginia to stand with them as many rushed to Texas to help defend the Alamo but I fully support those who are vehemently opposed to what the governor and legislature are attempting. I've seen comments on this board over the years lamenting the 'fact' that people who claim they will not give up their guns are all talk and will most likely roll over and submit. Here we have an instance of the people of Virginia actually beginning active opposition to the governor and legislature there and I say they deserve all the support they can muster. You seem to be against rocking the boat, when it is most definitely in need of some agitation.
Would any of you have a serious disagreement with the following:
Universal Background Checks WITHOUT a registry. How it could work:
You go to sell a firearm private-party. Your buyer must hand you an official background check form that states he is gtg, not a prohibited possessor. You the seller must provide him with a copy of your ID. You the seller must keep his background form just in case the weapon you just sold finds its way to a crime scene, you’ll have documentation.
It ’s nearly the way it works right now, except now it isn’t mandated by law. But most private party sellers require “good guy papers” anyways, just to CYA.
It’s a win win: the Dems can state that they’re making moves to stop prohibited possessors of firearms from getting them, and we don’t end up on a registration database of “future addresses to raid in a few years when we ban a possession of ARs”
I have a disagreement with it. Prohibited possessors are already prohibited. Not my job to screen them. Do I have to run a check on someone who wants to buy my car because they might have a revoked license, or intend to use my car in a robbery get away?
I don't want the buyer's info. If things go sideways at his house, I become a identifiable suspect. Likewise, buyer or his buddies use the copy of my ID to see what else I have they might like to "buy" at my house.
Also, I don't care to be a record keeper for the state. How long do I have to maintain the documentation? What happens if I don't/can't/fail?
UBC is a necessary part of registration. "Where's your gun?" "Gone. Private sale." "Where is the paperwork?" Registration is necessary to verify UBC is complied with.
UBC goes hand in hand with the mandatory report for lost or stolen firearms."Where's your gun?" "Gone. Boating accident." "Where is the paperwork?" Or, "Where's your gun?" "Gone. Stolen from my car." "Where is the paperwork?"
How many hundreds of failed checks through FFLs go unprosecuted? What is the point of creating a whole new body of people who won't be prosecuted?
“There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.” ― Ayn Rand
"... all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security..." T. Jefferson
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” ― Edmund Burke
I'd say that it is helpful, if for no other reason, men sometimes need to be stirred to action. Individuals and small groups may grumble and complain yet not take any action whatsoever to reduce or eliminate that which is making them miserable. There often has to be a realization of the likemindedness of a substantial number of others; and someone has to be the one to stir the pot.
I spent my youth in Northern Virginia and for those who don't know, that bumper sticker that used to be so popular 'Virginia is for Lovers'; started out as 'Virginia is for History Lovers'. I have friends I grew up with who still live there and communicate with them on a fairly regular basis and it sickens me what has become of the Commonwealth. I don't envision likeminded individuals or groups going to Virginia to stand with them as many rushed to Texas to help defend the Alamo but I fully support those who are vehemently opposed to what the governor and legislature are attempting. I've seen comments on this board over the years lamenting the 'fact' that people who claim they will not give up their guns are all talk and will most likely roll over and submit. Here we have an instance of the people of Virginia actually beginning active opposition to the governor and legislature there and I say they deserve all the support they can muster. You seem to be against rocking the boat, when it is most definitely in need of some agitation.
Did you read the article? I was not referring to the movement but the fact the article is riddled with ad hominems that do the cause no help.
Sad thing with this Virginia mess is the articles saying that 2A sanctuary cities is not the same as immigration sanctuary cities.
Their argument: the immigration sanctuary cities are just choosing to not enforce the federal law.
And thus are not breaking the law.
Yet somehow the same argument does not apply, the cities and counties are just choosing to not enforce the state law.
there may be some difference about flowdown of legal statutes, but I would think in a court if you do one you would need to apply the same logic to the other.
BoringGuy45
12-12-19, 16:58
Virginia Government Threatens to Use Troops for Gun Confiscation (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/the-law-is-the-law-virginia-democrats-float-prosecution-national-guard-deployment-if-police-dont-enforce-gun-control?fbclid=IwAR0J85pHEG4k4l3xS-xIhXV2Dq1LsLqtOh_JwF6QFfFyNqom2qk3_v4oFXw)
Democratic lawmakers on Capitol Hill say local police who do not enforce gun control measures likely to pass in Virginia should face prosecution and even threats of the National Guard.
After November's Virginia Legislature elections that led to Democrats taking control of both chambers, the gun control legislation proposed by some Democrats moved forward, including universal background checks, an “assault weapons” ban, and a red flag law.
Legal firearm owners in the state, however, joined with their sheriffs to form Second Amendment sanctuary counties, which declare the authorities in these municipalities uphold the Second Amendment in the face of any gun control measure passed by Richmond.
Over 75 counties in Virginia have so far adopted such Second Amendment sanctuary resolutions in the commonwealth, the latest being Spotsylvania County. The board of supervisors voted unanimously to approve a resolution declaring that county police will not enforce state-level gun laws that violate Second Amendment rights.
Columnist Kristen Soltis Anderson on the expanded Washington Examiner magazine
Virginia Democratic officials, however, already say local law enforcement supporting these resolutions will face consequences if they do not carry out any law the state Legislature passes.
“I would hope they either resign in good conscience, because they cannot uphold the law which they are sworn to uphold, or they're prosecuted for failure to fulfill their oath,” Democratic Virginia Rep. Gerry Connolly told the Washington Examiner of local county police who may refuse to enforce future gun control measures. “The law is the law. If that becomes the law, you don't have a choice, not if you're a sworn officer of the law.”
Democratic Virginia Rep. Donald McEachin suggested cutting off state funds to counties that do not comply with any gun control measures that pass in Richmond.
“They certainly risk funding, because if the sheriff's department is not going to enforce the law, they're going to lose money. The counties' attorneys offices are not going to have the money to prosecute because their prosecutions are going to go down,” he said.
McEachin also noted that Democratic Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam could call the National Guard, if necessary.
“And ultimately, I'm not the governor, but the governor may have to nationalize the National Guard to enforce the law,” he said. “That's his call, because I don't know how serious these counties are and how severe the violations of law will be. But that's obviously an option he has.”
Virginia Attorney General Mark Herring blamed the numerous Second Amendment resolutions in the state on the “gun lobby” as a tactic to frighten state residents.
“The resolutions that are being passed are being ginned up by the gun lobby to try to scare people. What we’re talking about here are laws that will make our communities and our streets safer,” Herring told CBS 6.
“So, when Virginia passes these gun safety laws that they will be followed, they will be enforced,” he added.
So, they're willing to declare martial law now. Once again, an American civil war will be centered around Virginia!
Sad thing with this Virginia mess is the articles saying that 2A sanctuary cities is not the same as immigration sanctuary cities.
Their argument: the immigration sanctuary cities are just choosing to not enforce the federal law.
And thus are not breaking the law.
Yet somehow the same argument does not apply, the cities and counties are just choosing to not enforce the state law.
there may be some difference about flowdown of legal statutes, but I would think in a court if you do one you would need to apply the same logic to the other.
"Rules for thee, but not for me."
When they ignore laws (in VA it's immigration sanctuaries and the state AG refusing to enforce the Marijuana statutes) it's the right, moral thing to do, and they have the moral high ground.
When conservative towns and counties threaten to do the same thing, in respect to laws that haven't even been passed yet, by lawmakers who in some cases haven't even been sworn in yet, it's lawless and evil. A US Congressman from VA even suggested prosecuting LEO who refuse to enforce the new laws, and using the Natl Guard in their place.
So yeah, martial law and using the Natl Guard against VA Citizens...unbelievable.
It’s gut wrenching to watch all this goes on while we have a Republican President. Hardly pushing the 2A game, but not attacking it either. I live in the great state of AZ, #1 ranked via NRA for 2A all things related, and I maintain constant fear of intrusion of my rights.
I just can’t imagine what is going to happen when the nutbags control office. Sooner or later they will win. They have 80% media control. Gotta love Waters World.
Did you read the article? I was not referring to the movement but the fact the article is riddled with ad hominems that do the cause no help.
Yes, I read the article. Ad hominem attacks shouldn't be just dismissed out of hand when there is a direct correllation between the action or activity and the character (or lack thereof) of the person. So in some instances, it is productive to stir the pot in that manner. I believe raising the level of invective is justified here.
https://youtu.be/ZJBjD8SaJlwhttps://youtu.be/ZJBjD8SaJlw
Yes, I read the article. Ad hominem attacks shouldn't be just dismissed out of hand when there is a direct correllation between the action or activity and the character (or lack thereof) of the person. So in some instances, it is productive to stir the pot in that manner.
Cool, we can agree to disagree on this one.
BoringGuy45
12-12-19, 22:36
Cool, we can agree to disagree on this one.
I don't disagree with anything the article said. I am with you though, that I do disagree with the way it was written. The writer was saying what most of us are thinking, in the way we're thinking it. Also, given the website where it was posted, he wrote it that way because he was preaching to the choir.
That being said, I still believe that, when one is writing a persuasive article, that they should still avoid hyperbole and ad hominem attacks. It comes as an angry vent rather than a logical argument when one writes like he did.
Would any of you have a serious disagreement with the following:
Universal Background Checks WITHOUT a registry. How it could work:
You go to sell a firearm private-party. Your buyer must hand you an official background check form that states he is gtg, not a prohibited possessor. You the seller must provide him with a copy of your ID. You the seller must keep his background form just in case the weapon you just sold finds its way to a crime scene, you’ll have documentation.
It ’s nearly the way it works right now, except now it isn’t mandated by law. But most private party sellers require “good guy papers” anyways, just to CYA.
It’s a win win: the Dems can state that they’re making moves to stop prohibited possessors of firearms from getting them, and we don’t end up on a registration database of “future addresses to raid in a few years when we ban a possession of ARs”Why would I give a random person a copy of my ID? That would give the buyer my address so they now know where more guns are located, not to mention identity theft since your birth date and DL number are also on there.
I won't buy or sell with a coward requiring paperwork that isn't required by law during a private sale. Those that do are the problem.
>No person is illegal. Every human has rights. Don’t separate families. Local authorities support undocumented migrants. This is a Sanctuary
>Turn in your guns. This is a nation of laws. Contraband is contraband. We will send armed soldiers to your house and depose your duly elected local officials to enforce state law.
Pick one
Fam - they got this covered. Try and make sense of this:
“Jurisdictions that proclaim themselves sanctuaries for immigrants do not seek to violate the law; they simply refuse to engage local law enforcement in supporting actions that are federal responsibilities. They do not block the law, but simply insist that it should be enforced by those who have the responsibility to do so. For some proponents of so-called gun sanctuaries, however, the goal is to prevent enforcement of state law that the jurisdiction (not a court) deems unconstitutional.”
https://www.google.com/amp/s/slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/12/second-amendment-gun-sanctuary-movement-constitution.amp
And some of you guys still want to try and be reasonable with these assholes.
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BoringGuy45
12-13-19, 09:00
Fam - they got this covered. Try and make sense of this:
“Jurisdictions that proclaim themselves sanctuaries for immigrants do not seek to violate the law; they simply refuse to engage local law enforcement in supporting actions that are federal responsibilities. They do not block the law, but simply insist that it should be enforced by those who have the responsibility to do so. For some proponents of so-called gun sanctuaries, however, the goal is to prevent enforcement of state law that the jurisdiction (not a court) deems unconstitutional.”
https://www.google.com/amp/s/slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/12/second-amendment-gun-sanctuary-movement-constitution.amp
Riiiight.
Well, I’d say ignoring federal detainers, not allowing ICE access to information that would allow them to do their jobs, and releasing dangerous criminals into the street in order to keep them from getting deported is a BIT more than simply not [engaging] local law enforcement in actions that are federal responsibilities. Give me a break. Quit patronizing us and spare us this horseshit that “oh, it’s just not job to worry about federal immigration law.”
Go ahead, Virginia. Deploy troops to kill cops and American citizens. See what happens.
Fam - they got this covered. Try and make sense of this:
“Jurisdictions that proclaim themselves sanctuaries for immigrants do not seek to violate the law; they simply refuse to engage local law enforcement in supporting actions that are federal responsibilities. They do not block the law, but simply insist that it should be enforced by those who have the responsibility to do so. For some proponents of so-called gun sanctuaries, however, the goal is to prevent enforcement of state law that the jurisdiction (not a court) deems unconstitutional.”
https://www.google.com/amp/s/slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/12/second-amendment-gun-sanctuary-movement-constitution.amp
This was the quote I was referencing. Completely irrational.
>No person is illegal. Every human has rights. Don’t separate families. Local authorities support undocumented migrants. This is a Sanctuary
>Turn in your guns. This is a nation of laws. Contraband is contraband. We will send armed soldiers to your house and depose your duly elected local officials to enforce state law.
Pick one
it is this simple.
They have already backed down some...
But quite simply... they don't have enough state resources to enforce this without city/county cooperation.
So then they would need to do to the city/county what the feds should do to sanctuary cities/states: Cut off all federal funding.
Which would then just heighten local backlash.
Nat Guard would never be used for this, out of scope to do local law enforcement outside the context of an emergency or "events violating human rights". So they can bluster, but that's non-starter.
Sad thing with this Virginia mess is the articles saying that 2A sanctuary cities is not the same as immigration sanctuary cities.
Their argument: the immigration sanctuary cities are just choosing to not enforce the federal law.
And thus are not breaking the law.
Yet somehow the same argument does not apply, the cities and counties are just choosing to not enforce the state law.
there may be some difference about flowdown of legal statutes, but I would think in a court if you do one you would need to apply the same logic to the other.
Not choosing to enforce federal law was essentially what (Mack)Printz v. US was about when the Brady act required local CLEOs to background check per federal law.
There is no 10th Amendment within a state.
They have Virginia Declaration of Rights which includes the right to rebel. George Mason and Thomas Jefferson could be trusted.
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91KbIp0ReyL.jpg
When the suburbs speak Fortunate Son....
:p
Matt Bracken's take on Virginia...
https://www.banned.video/watch?id=5df2c2ae8c47c0002b0d9db3
Matt Bracken's take on Virginia...
https://www.banned.video/watch?id=5df2c2ae8c47c0002b0d9db3
Alex Jones? 🙄
It looks to me like the Dems have backed themselves into an interesting corner.
1 - If they back down and don't pass the laws, they have lost their teeth and will come off as weak and powerless.
2 - If they pass laws that are just ignored by the populace and the law enforcement that is suppose to be their strong arm, they again, lose their teeth and come off as weak and powerless.
3 - They step straight into undeniable tyranny if they push a "LEO vs LEO" or "NG vs LEO" narrative, start going door to door, etc. That will start a straight up armed uprising. Again, making them the bad guys and reversing much of what they wish to do.
It would appear that their only real hope of coming out fairly unscathed would be to pass the laws, have the VCDL, or maybe the suddenly, suspiciously quite NRA and whatever other group file a law suit and injunctions to stop them and lose at the federal or SCOTUS level after the laws are declared unconstitutional. Then they can shrug their shoulders and yell "Trump". Any other way, and it would appear that they will not come out of this looking very good and with serious political egg on their face.
Thoughts?
It looks to me like the Dems have backed themselves into an interesting corner.
1 - If they back down and don't pass the laws, they have lost their teeth and will come off as weak and powerless.
2 - If they pass laws that are just ignored by the populace and the law enforcement that is suppose to be their strong arm, they again, lose their teeth and come off as weak and powerless.
3 - They step straight into undeniable tyranny if they push a "LEO vs LEO" or "NG vs LEO" narrative, start going door to door, etc. That will start a straight up armed uprising. Again, making them the bad guys and reversing much of what they wish to do.
It would appear that their only real hope of coming out fairly unscathed would be to pass the laws, have the VCDL, or maybe the suddenly, suspiciously quite NRA and whatever other group file a law suit and injunctions to stop them and lose at the federal or SCOTUS level after the laws are declared unconstitutional. Then they can shrug their shoulders and yell "Trump". Any other way, and it would appear that they will not come out of this looking very good and with serious political egg on their face.
Thoughts?
So either way it’s obvious they’re looking out for their own interests vs their constituents or upholding the constitution.
It looks to me like the Dems have backed themselves into an interesting corner.
1 - If they back down and don't pass the laws, they have lost their teeth and will come off as weak and powerless.
2 - If they pass laws that are just ignored by the populace and the law enforcement that is suppose to be their strong arm, they again, lose their teeth and come off as weak and powerless.
3 - They step straight into undeniable tyranny if they push a "LEO vs LEO" or "NG vs LEO" narrative, start going door to door, etc. That will start a straight up armed uprising. Again, making them the bad guys and reversing much of what they wish to do.
It would appear that their only real hope of coming out fairly unscathed would be to pass the laws, have the VCDL, or maybe the suddenly, suspiciously quite NRA and whatever other group file a law suit and injunctions to stop them and lose at the federal or SCOTUS level after the laws are declared unconstitutional. Then they can shrug their shoulders and yell "Trump". Any other way, and it would appear that they will not come out of this looking very good and with serious political egg on their face.
Thoughts?
Door #2 is what NY and CT basically did. Something like a 97% noncompliance rate on their AR registration and mag ban scheme.
Somewhat unsurprisingly, they didn’t look weak and impotent, because honestly, Dem voters will always think highly of them, and the right wing already thought they were weakling tyrants prior to their crappy laws being passed and ignored. So nothing changed.
If the NY Safe Act is any indication, all this is going to mean is that:
1) you might have to find a more private place to go shooting.
2) you’ll have to drive to NC or WV to buy good mags.
3) you’ll have a harder time acquiring banned firearms. Harder, not impossible.
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91KbIp0ReyL.jpg
When the suburbs speak Fortunate Son....
:p
Ah, the “what if the south had modern firearm book.”
I ask, “what if they had modern comms?”
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ah, the “what if the south had modern firearm book.”
I ask, “what if they had modern comms?”
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You would hear a lot of Fortune Son
Alex Jones? ��
Do you not know Matt Bracken?
You would hear a lot of Fortune SonIt ain't me...
Dr. Bullseye
12-13-19, 21:39
This is a little off topic but I just got an email from KAK Industry LLC (makers of tungsten buffer weights among other things) saying they are GIVING VIRGINIA RESIDENTS A 20% DISCOUNT.
https://www.kakindustry.com/
I thought it was a nice touch.
Do you not know Matt Bracken?
It said infowars on the video so I turned it off. I used to follow Alex Jones but then I turned 17
BoringGuy45
12-13-19, 21:51
It looks to me like the Dems have backed themselves into an interesting corner.
1 - If they back down and don't pass the laws, they have lost their teeth and will come off as weak and powerless.
2 - If they pass laws that are just ignored by the populace and the law enforcement that is suppose to be their strong arm, they again, lose their teeth and come off as weak and powerless.
3 - They step straight into undeniable tyranny if they push a "LEO vs LEO" or "NG vs LEO" narrative, start going door to door, etc. That will start a straight up armed uprising. Again, making them the bad guys and reversing much of what they wish to do.
It would appear that their only real hope of coming out fairly unscathed would be to pass the laws, have the VCDL, or maybe the suddenly, suspiciously quite NRA and whatever other group file a law suit and injunctions to stop them and lose at the federal or SCOTUS level after the laws are declared unconstitutional. Then they can shrug their shoulders and yell "Trump". Any other way, and it would appear that they will not come out of this looking very good and with serious political egg on their face.
Thoughts?
I'm hoping that this just screws them over, and I agree that the points you brought up make sense. However, I do have a worry about how they can salvage this. They may not have anticipated the massive push back from...well...pretty much the entire state minus the DC counties and the Richmond area. However, Fairfax, Loudoun, Arlington, Richmond, and Prince William are all so overwhelmingly Democrat now that VA is now permanently blue. This level of aggressiveness is only going to strengthen the resolve of those leftist voters. They won't say "we f**ked up now". They'll just say, "Okay, not yet. Soon though." They'll then find ways to change the law to reduce the sheriffs' powers, stall, and wait for more carpetbaggers and college students to move in and turn some of the sanctuary counties blue.
Also, even if VA is not ready for troops to go door to door for guns, this may inspire more uniformly blue states like CT, NJ, and MA, to start sending troopers and guardsmen door to door. CT, for example, doesn't have any counties, and thus no sheriffs. Every town in the state that has a local PD is blue, and any of the few red towns are so small that they're directly under the CT State Police. There's no place to hide in the Northeast, and the pro-gun allies are few and far between. I know a lot of good cops and troopers in those states who won't participate in raids, but no agencies with the power of a sheriff's office that can actually defend the community against the state.
I also have a feel that if/when bans get overturned, the blue states will do something like declare themselves "Constitution-free sanctuaries." That is, they basically declare that the Supreme Court can suck a dick, they're taking the guns anyway, and if anybody has a problem with that, they can print out a copy of the court decision, tape it to their shirt, and see if it stops the incoming bullets of the soldiers coming for their guns. If anyone wants to march in the streets, the troops will respond and the end result will be Tiananmen Square? Never heard of it.
It's going to be a tense few months, but it sounds like we're coming close to being back on the Lexington Town common.
Colorado had the mag ban come down in ‘13. Sheriffs fought it, legislators were recalled, and multiple repeal efforts to no avail. Ban is still on the books.
Stores sell parts kits, folks run standard cap mags at ranges and not many bat an eye. But that’s not to say you can’t get rolled up.
Compare to NY/CT above where it’s a whole AWB and mag ban and combined with more of an authoritarian/snitch climate and you get a situation where you don’t dare bring those things out of the basement.
Leaving these kinds of issues up to the good judgement of authorities is dangerous ground as the Overton window moves left.
It said infowars on the video so I turned it off. I used to follow Alex Jones but then I turned 17
Your missing out if you dont know Matt Bracken.
Grand58742
12-16-19, 16:24
It looks to me like the Dems have backed themselves into an interesting corner.
1 - If they back down and don't pass the laws, they have lost their teeth and will come off as weak and powerless.
2 - If they pass laws that are just ignored by the populace and the law enforcement that is suppose to be their strong arm, they again, lose their teeth and come off as weak and powerless.
3 - They step straight into undeniable tyranny if they push a "LEO vs LEO" or "NG vs LEO" narrative, start going door to door, etc. That will start a straight up armed uprising. Again, making them the bad guys and reversing much of what they wish to do.
It would appear that their only real hope of coming out fairly unscathed would be to pass the laws, have the VCDL, or maybe the suddenly, suspiciously quite NRA and whatever other group file a law suit and injunctions to stop them and lose at the federal or SCOTUS level after the laws are declared unconstitutional. Then they can shrug their shoulders and yell "Trump". Any other way, and it would appear that they will not come out of this looking very good and with serious political egg on their face.
Thoughts?
I bet they raid the dastardly NRA first.
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