View Full Version : Active shooter at Pearl and now Pensacola NAS - 12/6
The_War_Wagon
12-04-19, 20:07
Shooting at Pearl Harbor Naval Shipyard leaves 'multiple victims,' buildings locked down (https://www.foxnews.com/us/pearl-harbor-naval-shipyard-shooting-reported)
News still breaking. :(
The_War_Wagon
12-04-19, 20:12
Coverage from Honolulu (https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/12/05/multiple-gunshot-victims-reported-active-shooter-situation-pearl-harbor-naval-shipyard/).
Nightvisionary
12-04-19, 20:14
Looks like shooter dead, 3 wounded, lockdown lifted.
The_War_Wagon
12-04-19, 20:21
Ahhhh - livestream at last,
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/live/
Should be interesting, since their firearm laws are nearly as whacky as the rest of the left coast.
Ahhhh - livestream at last,
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/live/
Should be interesting, since their firearm laws are nearly as whacky as the rest of the left coast.
They’re actually not that bad, just 10 round mag limits and permits to purchase. Both are a pain, but they’re not super crazy like CA or even VA is proposing. CCW is non existent but it was on base so that wouldn’t matter.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
They’re actually not that bad, just 10 round mag limits and permits to purchase. Both are a pain, but they’re not super crazy like CA or even VA is proposing. CCW is non existent but it was on base so that wouldn’t matter.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I would say permit to own is crazy if its a per-item thing. A blanket permit to bypass a background check for each purchase would be ok. My contention lies around a back-door registry.
Hope all the victims are ok.
I would say permit to own is crazy if its a per-item thing. A blanket permit to bypass a background check for each purchase would be ok. My contention lies around a back-door registry.
Hope all the victims are ok.
Long guns are done with a yearly permit, every handgun requires its own. Don’t get me wrong, I hated it and it was a huge pain in the ass, but not as bad as many think. Plus, like I said, it was on base it’s irrelevant.
Sadly two of the three wounded died. One of my better friends that’s still out there actually worked in the same shop, he just happened to be somewhere else today.
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Grand58742
12-05-19, 13:54
Apparently the shooter used an issue M4 and M9.
This is why the leftist news hasn't been splashing it all over the various mediums today.
Apparently the shooter used an issue M4 and M9.
This is why the leftist news hasn't been splashing it all over the various mediums today.
We need to ban assault weapons from the military, because even if it saves just one life....:rolleyes:.
Grand58742
12-06-19, 08:10
Now one at NAS Pensacola.
WTF is going on?
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-06-19, 08:28
When you consider in general workplace violence, and how big DOD is, I'm surprised there aren't more 'military' shootings. Somehow the post office stopped their spat of shootings from years ago.
Now one at NAS Pensacola.
WTF is going on?
Seeing as how these shootings are a societal issue, I’m guessing recruitment and time has finally reached that point where these people are now entering the service thus exposing our installations to their behavioral deficiencies.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/naval-air-station-pensacola-active-shooter-reported-shelter-in-place-issued
Yeah, what the hell is going on with the Navy bases?
Averageman
12-06-19, 08:58
This has gone off the rails quickly.
Two in a week, what a horrible shame.
NCIS will be very busy. Jethro Gibbs pack your bag.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/naval-air-station-pensacola-active-shooter-reported-shelter-in-place-issued
Yeah, what the hell is going on with the Navy bases?
I'm assuming coordinated attacks until further details arise. Must be those damn Mormons again....
I'm assuming coordinated attacks until further details arise. Must be those damn Mormons again....
Coordinated between the Pearl Harbor and Pensacola? I don't think that's the case. The Pearl Harbor killer was a problem guy and was disciplined previously by the Navy.
P2Vaircrewman
12-06-19, 10:08
Now one at NAS Pensacola.
WTF is going on?
Lowered enlistment standards?
Averageman
12-06-19, 10:18
Lowered enlistment standards?
I didn't want to sound like "That Guy", but....
That was my first thought.
Omg so much “Hi....Joker....” going on
BoringGuy45
12-06-19, 11:11
Lowered enlistment standards?
Doubt it. These days, it's actually harder to get into the military, especially the Navy and Air Force. It's not that the standards are too low, it's that they're letting the wrong people in, and turning the wrong people away. I met a guy awhile back who was enlisting in the Navy, and he proudly announced that he was a socialist and hated America, but that if this was a way to get free college money, he'd do it. Meanwhile, if a kid takes Ritalin or Zoloft, he's banned from enlisting for life once he reaches enlistment age.
Grand58742
12-06-19, 11:12
I saw it reported the shooting took place in a classroom.
P-Cola is still a flight training school, yes? Could be a flunked student exacting some revenge.
I'm spitballing here.
I saw it reported the shooting took place in a classroom.
P-Cola is still a flight training school, yes? Could be a flunked student exacting some revenge.
I'm spitballing here.
It was a Saudi flight student in the API building (API stands for Aviation Preflight Indoctrination and is the first step in the naval aviation training pipeline)
https://www.foxnews.com/us/naval-air-station-pensacola-active-shooter-reported-shelter-in-place-issued
Oh oh, how does a foreigner get a gun and take a gun onto a base. It's a no no for civilian to bring a gun on base right?
Grand58742
12-06-19, 12:34
https://www.foxnews.com/us/naval-air-station-pensacola-active-shooter-reported-shelter-in-place-issued
Oh oh, how does a foreigner get a gun and take a gun onto a base. It's a no no for civilian to bring a gun on base right?
It's not entirely illegal, though such a thing should raise all kinds of red flags.
It's a base by base thing, but generally, you can take them to quarters (for permanent residents) or to the base armory. But that's only if they specifically find it or you declare it upon entry. That time of the morning I'd bet there was plenty of traffic coming on base and it's likely they weren't checking vehicles that closely.
Grand58742
12-06-19, 12:37
What makes me curious is the fact Escambia County Sheriffs were the ones responding. I might understand if the base had a mutual aid agreement with the local LEOs, but it's highly irregular not to have a Master at Arms detachment or DoD Police at any base these days.
The_War_Wagon
12-06-19, 12:38
https://www.foxnews.com/us/naval-air-station-pensacola-active-shooter-reported-shelter-in-place-issued
Oh oh, how does a foreigner get a gun and take a gun onto a base. It's a no no for civilian to bring a gun on base right?
And what SOOOOOOOOOOOPER genius :rolleyes: - after 9/11 - thought it a GOOD idea, to bring a mohammedan into a NAS?!?!? :mad::mad::mad:
Grand58742
12-06-19, 12:43
And what SOOOOOOOOOOOPER genius :rolleyes: - after 9/11 - thought it a GOOD idea, to bring a mohammedan into a NAS?!?!? :mad::mad::mad:
You mean like the same people who invited the Afghan pilots to train that disappeared?
https://www.star-telegram.com/news/business/aviation/article230015139.html
https://www.foxnews.com/us/naval-air-station-pensacola-active-shooter-reported-shelter-in-place-issued
Oh oh, how does a foreigner get a gun and take a gun onto a base. It's a no no for civilian to bring a gun on base right?
He wasn't a civilian he was a Saudi military flight student that would have been driving through the gate using "proper ID" everyday. The guards at the gate wouldn't have gone rummaging thru his trunk unless they had a reason to do so.
He wasn't a civilian he was a Saudi military flight student that would have been driving through the gate using "proper ID" everyday. The guards at the gate wouldn't have gone rummaging thru his trunk unless they had a reason to do so.
I’d say there’s definitely a reason to now for the others.
Problem is the USA turns down Saudi and other Arab states pilots, where do you think they are going to go for training?
Grand58742
12-06-19, 13:23
Problem is the USA turns down Saudi and other Arab states pilots, where do you think they are going to go for training?
Honestly, do we care?
I'm pretty much over the Saudis at this point.
Hard to fly F18's with MiG training...I jest.
The USA has been training Saudis for well over 25 years, along with German, Kuwaiti, Malaysian, and a whole host of other Nations.
It's good for allies, it's good for the USA from a partnership and business (selling them aircraft, bombs, missiles, etc - not to mention selling them the training).
And oh guess what, we gain insight to how good (or not good) they are.
Yeah it sucks, but in the past 25 years, more people on NASP have been killed by drunk drivers, people texting and aviation accidents than by this one Saudi shooter.
The USA has been training Saudis for well over 25 years, along with German, Kuwaiti, Malaysian, and a whole host of other Nations.
It's good for allies, it's good for the USA from a partnership and business (selling them aircraft, bombs, missiles, etc - not to mention selling them the training).
And oh guess what, we gain insight to how good (or not good) they are.
Yeah it sucks, but in the past 25 years, more people on NASP have been killed by drunk drivers, people texting and aviation accidents than by this one Saudi shooter.
The Brits that are currently flying their F-35's came thru P'cola. At least some of the earliest one's did. My son went thru the P'cola flight program with Brit's then with Spaniards and Italians in the Harrier RAG at MCAS Cherry Point.
I had guns in my barracks at Ft Benning ALL THE TIME. Along with pretty much everyone else. I remember driving through the gate one night and forgot I had a 8 inch barreled S&W 629 shoved between the front seat and the center console. Guard completely missed it. The vast majority of the time they just waive you in when you show ID.
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-06-19, 14:25
Didn't FLA pass UBCs and a waiting period for guns? What kind of ID would he use to purchase one? What is his 'immigration' status - and how would that figure into a 4473?
Honestly, do we care?
I'm pretty much over the Saudis at this point.
I don't care, and, me to.
The reason we are stiil doing this kind of stuff is because of the good old military industrial complex which President Dwight D. Eisenhower warned us about.
Business_Casual
12-07-19, 06:07
Ending foreign military training because of an incident is the same as banning AR-15s because a lunatic shot up a school with a P226.
https://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amendment/2019/12/06/report-6-saudis-detained-after-pensacola-shooting-including-3-who-filmed-attack/
6 Saudis detained - 3 were filming the attack. Hmmm
Why does a military base, even a Navy base, have to wait until the locals arrive to engage an active shooter?! I'd thought they learned their lesson after Ft Hood.
Grand58742
12-07-19, 08:31
Ending foreign military training because of an incident is the same as banning AR-15s because a lunatic shot up a school with a P226.
I'm not saying we should end it, but we certainly could rethink the nations we are allowing to come to our house and do it. Sorry, but I'm all about us first and if they want training, they bring our people over to their house to conduct it.
Why does a military base, even an AF base, have to wait until the locals arrive to engage an active shooter?! I'd thought they learned their lesson after Ft Hood.
I don't know if they are still there or not but 10 years ago when my kid graduated from OCS in Quantico if you knew where to look you could see Marines "in the shadows, leaning against trees etc" armed with M-4's. Made me feel pretty safe I must say
https://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amendment/2019/12/06/report-6-saudis-detained-after-pensacola-shooting-including-3-who-filmed-attack/
6 Saudis detained - 3 were filming the attack. Hmmm
The religion of peace doing what they do best.
CAMagnussen
12-07-19, 09:33
Why does a military base, even an AF base, have to wait until the locals arrive to engage an active shooter?! I'd thought they learned their lesson after Ft Hood.
This was my very thought, Will. What the heck? NAS Pensacola, frankly, arguably, the most historic bases in the US Navy had *no* SP folks on duty? Nobody who could have rushed to the scene? I was speaking to a Navy Vet last night who said, "It's crazy, they've hired rent-a-cops to guard our bases." True? I don't know. But, I shit you not, back in the day there were plenty of USMC drill instructors running training there and they would have handled the situation. This so pisses me off.
They serious called in the local-yocal cops to handle this? WTF?
This was my very thought, Will. What the heck? NAS Pensacola, frankly, arguably, the most historic bases in the US Navy had *no* SP folks on duty? Nobody who could have rushed to the scene? I was speaking to a Navy Vet last night who said, "It's crazy, they've hired rent-a-cops to guard our bases." True? I don't know. But, I shit you not, back in the day there were plenty of USMC drill instructors running training there and they would have handled the situation. This so pisses me off.
They serious called in the local-yocal cops to handle this? WTF?
Went thru the front gate at Marine Corps Air Station Cherry Point several times last weekend. There were always sharp Marine MP's at the gate each with an M-4. Very big difference from going aboard NAS P'cola.
Ending foreign military training because of an incident is the same as banning AR-15s because a lunatic shot up a school with a P226.
Foreign governments have an inalienable right to receive US military training?
This was my very thought, Will. What the heck? NAS Pensacola, frankly, arguably, the most historic bases in the US Navy had *no* SP folks on duty? Nobody who could have rushed to the scene? I was speaking to a Navy Vet last night who said, "It's crazy, they've hired rent-a-cops to guard our bases." True? I don't know. But, I shit you not, back in the day there were plenty of USMC drill instructors running training there and they would have handled the situation. This so pisses me off.
They serious called in the local-yocal cops to handle this? WTF?
Where my grandfather was a flight instructor WWII and where my mother was born.
Business_Casual
12-07-19, 19:48
Foreign governments have an inalienable right to receive US military training?
I don’t follow your reasoning but I am happy to debate.
My point is that it is illogical to ban something based on unrelated bad actors. Primarily, murder, assault, discharging a firearm in public, ad astra is already illegal. Creating an additional category of illegality is not only illogical it is unproductive.
Your point, if I may, is that the 2nd is an inalienable right therefore the right to receive military training isn’t because Saudi. Or perhaps not.
I don’t follow your reasoning but I am happy to debate.
My point is that it is illogical to ban something based on unrelated bad actors. Primarily, murder, assault, discharging a firearm in public, ad astra is already illegal. Creating an additional category of illegality is not only illogical it is unproductive.
Your point, if I may, is that the 2nd is an inalienable right therefore the right to receive military training isn’t because Saudi. Or perhaps not.
The 2nd is supposed to be an inalienable right, although that isn't how it is handled by any means. Training foreign militaries simply isn't.
Somehow I doubt cutting Saudi Arabia off from training would be harming any good actors.
You know sad to say but better he shot up the work place with a handgun instead of flying a F-18 into a building.
They claim shooter purchased the guns legally. Via the ATF:
"An alien admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa is prohibited from shipping, transporting, receiving, or possessing a firearm or ammunition unless the alien falls within one of the exceptions provided in 18 U.S.C. 922(y)(2), such as: a valid hunting license or permit, admitted for lawful hunting or sporting purposes, certain official representatives of a foreign government, or a foreign law enforcement officer of a friendly foreign government entering the United States on official law enforcement business."
Did he get himself a hunting license? Lookphole? Smells wrong to me but:
PENSACOLA, Fla. — The handgun used by a Saudi aviation trainee to kill three people and wound eight others at Naval Air Station Pensacola was purchased lawfully in Florida, according to the FBI.
At a Sunday news conference, Rachel Rojas, special agent in charge of the Jacksonville Field Office, identified the weapon
used in the attack as a 9mm Glock 45 pistol and said the shooter "did purchase it legally and lawfully" through a process that was open to "not just him, but any foreign national."
Also, Rojas confirmed the gunman purchased the firearm in Florida, but declined to give specific details about when and where. She referred the public to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives' website for additional information on the regulations that permit foreign nationals to buy guns on U.S soil.
'He just shot through the door':Injured airman describes Pensacola Navy base shooting
"That’s a federal loophole that he took advantage of," Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis said. "I’m a big supporter of the Second Amendment, but the Second Amendment applies so that we, the American people, can keep and bear arms. It does not apply to Saudi Arabians."
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/12/08/pensacola-shooting-gunman-legally-bought-glock-45-fbi/4378016002/?fbclid=IwAR1JHDbbHx3XT3xwpAeaEca8oCq0uJGMi28iBMXdsOhMCU5o-EOmVWUhBfM
I don't know if they are still there or not but 10 years ago when my kid graduated from OCS in Quantico if you knew where to look you could see Marines "in the shadows, leaning against trees etc" armed with M-4's. Made me feel pretty safe I must say
Graduations often have extra security.
They claim shooter purchased the guns legally. Via the ATF:
"An alien admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa is prohibited from shipping, transporting, receiving, or possessing a firearm or ammunition unless the alien falls within one of the exceptions provided in 18 U.S.C. 922(y)(2), such as: a valid hunting license or permit, admitted for lawful hunting or sporting purposes, certain official representatives of a foreign government, or a foreign law enforcement officer of a friendly foreign government entering the United States on official law enforcement business."
Did he get himself a hunting license? Lookphole? Smells wrong to me but:
PENSACOLA, Fla. — The handgun used by a Saudi aviation trainee to kill three people and wound eight others at Naval Air Station Pensacola was purchased lawfully in Florida, according to the FBI.
At a Sunday news conference, Rachel Rojas, special agent in charge of the Jacksonville Field Office, identified the weapon
used in the attack as a 9mm Glock 45 pistol and said the shooter "did purchase it legally and lawfully" through a process that was open to "not just him, but any foreign national."
Also, Rojas confirmed the gunman purchased the firearm in Florida, but declined to give specific details about when and where. She referred the public to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives' website for additional information on the regulations that permit foreign nationals to buy guns on U.S soil.
"That’s a federal loophole that he took advantage of," Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis said. "I’m a big supporter of the Second Amendment, but the Second Amendment applies so that we, the American people, can keep and bear arms. It does not apply to Saudi Arabians."
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/12/08/pensacola-shooting-gunman-legally-bought-glock-45-fbi/4378016002/?fbclid=IwAR1JHDbbHx3XT3xwpAeaEca8oCq0uJGMi28iBMXdsOhMCU5o-EOmVWUhBfM
I was thinking the same thing, how could a foreigner buy a gun legally?
Grand58742
12-09-19, 10:56
Apparently got agitated because the instructor called him "Porn Stash."
I'm pretty sure that's not the only reason...
Any further update between Pensacola and Pearl Harbor on the same day? With other nationals filming the event and a second shooting occurring at nearly the same time, I don't believe in coincidences. As was once mentioned, "I'll believe that when me shit turns purple and smells like rainbow sherbet."
The wife and kids and I were at Pensacola for the Blue Angels and the aviation museum a couple years ago on vacation. It aggravates me to no end that one of our military installations, where we are "supposed" to be safe, was shot up, and could have easily occurred in such a target-rich environment. And I'd have to beat somebody to death with a metal stanchion because it was "unsafe" to have a cop with an off-duty gun in the crowd....
That being said, I go to the Search and Rescue Training Center at the Camp Atterbury JMTC in Indiana all the time in both my police car and my personal truck with my LEO creds and get waved in every time. Of course, if that were to happen there when the SEALs are training for NAS Crane, I feel sorry for the bad guys...
I don't think "clarifies" would be the right term, but the FAQ Will Brink shared points to this part of the 4473 I doubt many of us have reason to use.
Question 18.c. Exceptions to the Nonimmigrant Alien Prohibition and
Acceptable Documentation: An alien admitted to the United States under a
nonimmigrant visa is not prohibited from purchasing, receiving, or possessing a
firearm if the alien: (1) is in possession of a hunting license or permit lawfully
issued by the Federal Government, a State or local government, or an Indian
tribe federally recognized by the Bureau of Indian Affairs, which is valid and
unexpired; (2) was admitted to the United States for lawful hunting or sporting
purposes; (3) has received a waiver from the prohibition from the Attorney
General of the United States; (4) is an official representative of a foreign
government who is accredited to the United States Government or the
Government's mission to an international organization having its headquarters in the United States; (5) is an official representative of a foreign
government who is en route to or from another country to which that alien is
accredited; (6) is an official of a foreign government or a distinguished foreign
visitor who has been so designated by the Department of State; or (7) is a foreign
law enforcement officer of a friendly foreign government entering the United
States on official law enforcement business.
I was thinking the same thing, how could a foreigner buy a gun legally?
The "loophole" may be via a hunting license? That's what I'm gathering from the ATF info above if he did in fact purchase them legally as claimed.
The "loophole" may be via a hunting license? That's what I'm gathering from the ATF info above if he did in fact purchase them legally as claimed.
Could be, but I wonder about 18.c #3 since it got broke out as a separate item in the article and there is incentive to not release that info versus announcing a clerk at Fred's Fin & Fur hooked him up.
The "loophole" may be via a hunting license? That's what I'm gathering from the ATF info above if he did in fact purchase them legally as claimed.
The loop hole may be items (4) or (5) or (6), it looks like. So if a foreign citizen bought a gun in the US under one of those exceptions, can he/she take it back to her country?
The loop hole may be items (4) or (5) or (6), it looks like. So if a foreign citizen bought a gun in the US under one of those exceptions, can he/she take it back to her country?
I thought about those, but the statement "a process that was open to "not just him, but any foreign national." would seem to make 1, 2, or 3 more likely.
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