View Full Version : Super 42 buffer spring with what bcg?
Hey guys looking to upgrade my ddm4v5. Putting in a geissele ssa e trigger and want to upgrade to the super 42 spring. Also want to upgrade/change out the bcg. What suggestions do you guys have. Also for those who may ask I enjoy always upgrading parts and with the left over parts I can use for another build. Thanks guys
Inkslinger
12-09-19, 20:30
Add the spring if you want. Keep the BCG. There’s really no need to “upgrade” from a DD BCG.
SilentRecon
12-09-19, 20:41
Add the spring if you want. Keep the BCG. There’s really no need to “upgrade” from a DD BCG.This ^^^ DD BCG is solid!! Geissele Super 42 spring/buffer is really nice. Order and extra Tungsten weight right away to make it an H2.
If you WANT to get the creme of creme, LMT FA Enhanced BCG # L7Q3.
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The trigger has obvious pros, the buffer is more debatable. But why do you want to do anything to the BCG?
This ^^^ DD BCG is solid!! Geissele Super 42 spring/buffer is really nice. Order and extra Tungsten weight right away to make it an H2.
If you WANT to get the creme of creme, LMT FA Enhanced BCG # L7Q3.
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Tungsten weight for my stock buffer I'm assuming?do stock DD have an H buffer? Not h2
SilentRecon
12-09-19, 21:01
Tungsten weight for my stock buffer I'm assuming?do stock DD have an H buffer? Not h2If you are using the Geissele super 44 spring, you have to use their Buffer with it. Its proprietary and must be used together. You can't run your regular buffer with that Geissele spring, it doesnt fit. You can order then seperate only because for replacement.
Most all buffers come as H1. I always go straight to H2 buffer. The Giessele buffer needs an additional Tungsten weight to make it an H2. Very easy to install.
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The trigger has obvious pros, the buffer is more debatable. But why do you want to do anything to the BCG?
Overthink lubricity
If you are using the Geissele super 44 spring, you have to use their Buffer with it. Its proprietary and must be used together. You can't run your regular buffer with that Geissele spring, it doesnt fit. You can order then seperate only because for replacement.
Most all buffers come as H1. I always go straight to H2 buffer. The Giessele buffer needs an additional Tungsten weight to make it an H2. Very easy to install.
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There website has a specific h2 buffer. Would I still have to add the weight to that buffer?
There website has a specific h2 buffer. Would I still have to add the weight to that buffer?
You would order the set that comes with the H2 buffer.
If you wanted to avoid spending $82 on something that will not improve the performance of a quality rifle, and if your existing buffer is an H/H1, you could purchase a tungsten weight (KAK is one source) and simply replace one of your existing buffer’s steel weights with a tungsten weight. This would make your original buffer an H2.
Nothing wrong with purchasing Geissele’s kit, but it isn’t necessary. Personally, if I felt the need to play with the buffer system, I’d just spend about another $20 and convert to an A5 system.
SilentRecon
12-09-19, 21:34
There website has a specific h2 buffer. Would I still have to add the weight to that buffer?No you can order the H2 with spring. I got the H1/spring combo on sale and added a tungsten weight to make it an H2. It does feel better and takes harmonics out of the typical buffer ping. I run a JP enterprises H2 Silent Capture in one of my Noveskes and it's amazing. Not comparable to a standard spring/buffer combo, just spendy to outfit everything with them.
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You would order the set that comes with the H2 buffer.
If you wanted to avoid spending $82 on something that will not improve the performance of a quality rifle, and if your existing buffer is an H/H1, you could purchase a tungsten weight (KAK is one source) and simply replace one of your existing buffer’s steel weights with a tungsten weight. This would make your original buffer an H2.
Nothing wrong with purchasing Geissele’s kit, but it isn’t necessary. Personally, if I felt the need to play with the buffer system, I’d just spend about another $20 and convert to an A5 system.
Have you converted your rifles to the at system
Mysteryman
12-10-19, 08:13
If you are using the Geissele super 44 spring, you have to use their Buffer with it. Its proprietary and must be used together. You can't run your regular buffer with that Geissele spring, it doesnt fit. You can order then seperate only because for replacement.
Most all buffers come as H1. I always go straight to H2 buffer. The Giessele buffer needs an additional Tungsten weight to make it an H2. Very easy to install.
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No you don't. Been running my 42 spring with a spikes ST T2 buffer for over 1000 rounds now without issue.
Have you converted your rifles to the at system
No. I have one rifle setup currently, but the benefits aren’t there like from carbine to A5. Essentially, the A5 system is designed to mimic the rifle.
SilentRecon
12-10-19, 08:23
No you don't. Been running my 42 spring with a spikes ST T2 buffer for over 1000 rounds now without issue.Your comment is why regardless of online advise, do some research first. You can do to your rifle however you see fit but according to Giessele.... I asked them specifically about this and they said NOT to use standard buffer because diameter is different. But you do you...
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191210/9450918f203d1241fb0a41f81ecf176f.jpg
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Before you go off and spend the money your Grandma gave you for Christmas, what problems are you trying to solve with a new BCG and buffer springs/weights besides stimulating the economy?
I mean it's your money, but if you're not sitting on at least a case of quality ammo, 10x mags, a quality optic, sling and light then your priorities are wrong, not just out of order.
SilentRecon
12-10-19, 11:14
Before you go off and spend the money your Grandma gave you for Christmas, what problems are you trying to solve with a new BCG and buffer springs/weights besides stimulating the economy?
I mean it's your money, but if you're not sitting on at least a case of quality ammo, 10x mags, a quality optic, sling and light then your priorities are wrong, not just out of order.Kind of a snide comment to the OP. How do you know he is a kid and doesn't shoot all the time? I know guys who shoot all the time but have never been into upgrading certain parts so they ask questions. Don't be self righteous and assume. He's simply asking for advice on upgrading a firearm, not asking if he should. Who cares if he wants to or if its needed. People enjoy upgrading things all the time regardless if they "need too". The common response of "shoot more, buy more ammo, blah blah" is getting boring. Offering advise to his specific question goes a long way.
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Kind of a snide comment to the OP. How do you know he is a kid and doesn't shoot all the time? I know guys who shoot all the time but have never been into upgrading certain parts so they ask questions. Don't be self righteous and assume. He's simply asking for advice on upgrading a firearm, not asking if he should. Who cares if he wants to or if its needed. People enjoy upgrading things all the time regardless if they "need too". The common response of "shoot more, buy more ammo, blah blah" is getting boring. Offering advise to his specific question goes a long way.
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Well said silent recon. And yes I'm a 28yr old who shoots very often and funds my passion with my own hard earned money and provide for my family. I am fortunate enough to do so on my own land. I have the quality optic, ammunition,sling, light and mags. Like silentrecon said more of educating myself from others who have personal experience in the criteria i specified about. Potentially looking to in a sense upgrade. Nothing is broken with firearm works flawless. I use the shit out of it.
Well anyway no sense in bickering thank you guys for the information.
SilentRecon
12-10-19, 12:32
Well said silent recon. And yes I'm a 28yr old who shoots very often and funds my passion with my own hard earned money and provide for my family. I am fortunate enough to do so on my own land. I have the quality optic, ammunition,sling, light and mags. Like silentrecon said more of educating myself from others who have personal experience in the criteria i specified about. Potentially looking to in a sense upgrade. Nothing is broken with firearm works flawless. I use the shit out of it.Excellence! We are all involved in the same passion with similar goals- Never be ashamed to ask and keep unloading the lead!
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Kind of a snide comment to the OP. How do you know he is a kid and doesn't shoot all the time? I know guys who shoot all the time but have never been into upgrading certain parts so they ask questions. Don't be self righteous and assume. He's simply asking for advice on upgrading a firearm, not asking if he should. Who cares if he wants to or if its needed. People enjoy upgrading things all the time regardless if they "need too". The common response of "shoot more, buy more ammo, blah blah" is getting boring. Offering advise to his specific question goes a long way.
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Well said silent recon. And yes I'm a 28yr old who shoots very often and funds my passion with my own hard earned money and provide for my family. I am fortunate enough to do so on my own land. I have the quality optic, ammunition,sling, light and mags. Like silentrecon said more of educating myself from others who have personal experience in the criteria i specified about. Potentially looking to in a sense upgrade. Nothing is broken with firearm works flawless. I use the shit out of it.
The "Christmas money" comment was a joke guys...
But I'll stand by what I said. If you can't identify a deficiency in the system that needs fixing/upgrading it's probably best keep your money in your pocket before you become one of those guys that ends up with a non-functioning rifle after they get done "upgrading" it.
SilentRecon
12-10-19, 18:21
The "Christmas money" comment was a joke guys...
But I'll stand by what I said. If you can't identify a deficiency in the system that needs fixing/upgrading it's probably best keep your money in your pocket before you become one of those guys that ends up with a non-functioning rifle after they get done "upgrading" it.Candor over the internet isn't always easy to decipher but understand. I dont disagree with your second statement whatsoever. Having that is a priority but we must not assume they dont.
Upgrading an already high end quality rifle where it counts is nice (Rails, grip, trigger, CH, stock, buffer weight etc does little to negatively effect reliability if it's good stuff and applied correctly.). BCG can but not if it's a proven high end replacement. Never touch gas systems from factory is always my golden rule unless it overly gassed and you shoot suppressed often. Franken uppers I don't personally touch, but they can be reliable if done correctly!
Have a great Christmas and happy 2020!
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I have 3 super 42’s,I use them with lmt ebcg,a colt bcg and a psa nitride bcg.
Can’t tell any difference...
Mysteryman
12-15-19, 01:21
Your comment is why regardless of online advise, do some research first. You can do to your rifle however you see fit but according to Giessele.... I asked them specifically about this and they said NOT to use standard buffer because diameter is different. But you do you...
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191210/9450918f203d1241fb0a41f81ecf176f.jpg
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If it doesn't fit over standard buffers, why the warning of damage should you install it? The spring fits standard buffers and works just fine. The size difference is only at the shoulder where the spring seats, and the difference is approximately 0.025" of an inch. All other dimensions are the same as a stock buffer. Geissele uses this scare tactic to entice you to buy their buffer weights and use their buffer to tune your rifle. Any buffer will fit.
If it doesn't fit over standard buffers, why the warning of damage should you install it? The spring fits standard buffers and works just fine. The size difference is only at the shoulder where the spring seats, and the difference is approximately 0.025" of an inch. All other dimensions are the same as a stock buffer. Geissele uses this scare tactic to entice you to buy their buffer weights and use their buffer to tune your rifle. Any buffer will fit.
I would not suggest to anyone else to not follow the manufacturer's recommendation. The spring diameter is larger, necessitating a different buffer diameter. You are likely causing increased wear to your buffer tube and probably shortening the life of the buffer spring and buffer. Just because it works now does not mean that it is a good course of action. I would not be surprised if you are not experiencing the full benefits of the system as a result of your failure to follow their instructions.
Strong move replacing the trigger. You will see definite benefits. The other stuff, ask yourself what are you trying to achieve? If you can’t answer that question then you are “upgrading” for the sake of it. Save your money there and buy more ammo.
FWIW, I wouldn’t waste any time trying to be smarter than Mr. Geissele. He seems to know a couple of things.
SilentRecon
12-16-19, 11:28
I would not suggest to anyone else to not follow the manufacturer's recommendation. The spring diameter is larger, necessitating a different buffer diameter. You are likely causing increased wear to your buffer tube and probably shortening the life of the buffer spring and buffer. Just because it works now does not mean that it is a good course of action. I would not be surprised if you are not experiencing the full benefits of the system as a result of your failure to follow their instructions.Wise words. For someone to suggest otherwise that Geissele is misleading on their Super 42 buffer/spring combo for extra profit is hilarious. Just because "it seems to be working ok" with their standard buffer/ super 42 spring combo does not mean it is whatsoever and should be taken with a single grain of salt.
I want to assume people just didn't read the warning before buying just the spring. If they read the warning and proceed anyway, that's their own decision. It would be interesting to hear Mr. Giessele input on this and how their extensive R&D and warning label must be smoke and mirrors.
Geissele also recommends to NOT use anti walk pins like KNS on their triggers. Static pins can cause issues with their triggers under heavy use and cause issues even though KNS makes pins for the trigger.
Under light use, they may never present a problem and I see then used unknowingly all the time with Geissele triggers but why not listen to a manufacture?
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Mysteryman
12-17-19, 14:03
I would not suggest to anyone else to not follow the manufacturer's recommendation. The spring diameter is larger, necessitating a different buffer diameter. You are likely causing increased wear to your buffer tube and probably shortening the life of the buffer spring and buffer. Just because it works now does not mean that it is a good course of action. I would not be surprised if you are not experiencing the full benefits of the system as a result of your failure to follow their instructions.
The spring diameter is not larger, it's exactly the same at 0.93"
Wise words. For someone to suggest otherwise that Geissele is misleading on their Super 42 buffer/spring combo for extra profit is hilarious. Just because "it seems to be working ok" with their standard buffer/ super 42 spring combo does not mean it is whatsoever and should be taken with a single grain of salt.
I want to assume people just didn't read the warning before buying just the spring. If they read the warning and proceed anyway, that's their own decision. It would be interesting to hear Mr. Giessele input on this and how their extensive R&D and warning label must be smoke and mirrors.
Geissele also recommends to NOT use anti walk pins like KNS on their triggers. Static pins can cause issues with their triggers under heavy use and cause issues even though KNS makes pins for the trigger.
Under light use, they may never present a problem and I see then used unknowingly all the time with Geissele triggers but why not listen to a manufacture?
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You can't buy just the super 42 braided spring for carbine, they're sold as sets only. And yes, I read the warning, then measured the parts and there is zero difference in dimensions other than the shoulder of the Geissele buffer being 0.025" narrower than a milspec buffer. If Mr. Geissele would chime in and explain their position on not using a stock buffer I would be all ears. Until then, with identical dimensions there is no logical reason a stock buffer can't be used.
Blankstrap
12-17-19, 15:18
The spring diameter is not larger, it's exactly the same at 0.93"
You can't buy just the super 42 braided spring for carbine, they're sold as sets only. And yes, I read the warning, then measured the parts and there is zero difference in dimensions other than the shoulder of the Geissele buffer being 0.025" narrower than a milspec buffer. If Mr. Geissele would chime in and explain their position on not using a stock buffer I would be all ears. Until then, with identical dimensions there is no logical reason a stock buffer can't be used.Without your knowing anything that went into the engineering, and decision to use only one metic to justify going against the manufacturer's warning, it's ill-advised -- but your rifle, your risk.
However, accusing a solid company with a stellar reputation of swindling their customers is poor form without actual evidence, and not generally tolerated on this forum.
Without your knowing anything that went into the engineering, and decision to use only one metic to justify going against the manufacturer's warning, it's ill-advised -- but your rifle, your risk.
However, accusing a solid company with a stellar reputation of swindling their customers is poor form without actual evidence, and not generally tolerated on this forum.
You're a new member on this forum. I don't think anyone gave you a right to represent other members on this forum.
Mysteryman is right. He went out and measured things for other members to consider. He provided his opinion based on his findings and experience. You might disagree with him or not, but from the engineering standpoint he's right. Unless you can provide some definitive counter arguments to his solid data you should keep comments like that to yourself.
If you paid a little bit of attention to some shady things G, as a company, pulled over the last few years you wouldn't be saying this. (Edit: this is not to negatively reflect on G products. This is a personal opinion to say I disagree with the way the company handled themselves on more than one occasion regarding representation of their product performance)
Inkslinger
12-17-19, 18:07
Without your knowing anything that went into the engineering, and decision to use only one metic to justify going against the manufacturer's warning, it's ill-advised -- but your rifle, your risk.
However, accusing a solid company with a stellar reputation of swindling their customers is poor form without actual evidence, and not generally tolerated on this forum.
2 posts since joining, both about Geissele. Curious....
SilentRecon
12-17-19, 18:38
The spring diameter is not larger, it's exactly the same at 0.93"
You can't buy just the super 42 braided spring for carbine, they're sold as sets only. And yes, I read the warning, then measured the parts and there is zero difference in dimensions other than the shoulder of the Geissele buffer being 0.025" narrower than a milspec buffer. If Mr. Geissele would chime in and explain their position on not using a stock buffer I would be all ears. Until then, with identical dimensions there is no logical reason a stock buffer can't be used.So you purchased the combo but decided not to use it as a combo?
It's your firearm and not doubting a standard buffer "can work" with their 42 spring although ill advised by the manufacture.
Im wondering why your chosen route when they come together as a package and is labeled specifically not to use standard sized buffer or damage WILL occur. Not "possibly" or "maybe". How many rounds do you have behind your setup?
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Blankstrap
12-17-19, 20:34
You're a new member on this forum. I don't think anyone gave you a right to represent other members on this forum.
Mysteryman is right. He went out and measured things for other members to consider. He provided his opinion based on his findings and experience. You might disagree with him or not, but from the engineering standpoint he's right. Unless you can provide some definitive counter arguments to his solid data you should keep comments like that to yourself.
If you paid a little bit of attention to some shady things G, as a company, pulled over the last few years you wouldn't be saying this. (Edit: this is not to negatively reflect on G products. This is a personal opinion to say I disagree with the way the company handled themselves on more than one occasion regarding representation of their product performance)No, from an engineering standpoint, he's wrong: multiple variables might account for the damage warning; he assessed one and called it good.
Then he reinforced the justification by saying the company's lying, based on nada.
That's not solid data. At all. Pointing that out isn't "representing other members", it's replying.
Blankstrap
12-17-19, 20:35
2 posts since joining, both about Geissele. Curious....A coincidence, but I'd've pointed it out, too.
No, from an engineering standpoint, he's wrong: multiple variables might account for the damage warning; he assessed one and called it good.
Then he reinforced the justification by saying the company's lying, based on nada.
That's not solid data. At all. Pointing that out isn't "representing other members", it's replying.
I don't disagree with your general idea here (ordered the spring/buffer combo and will definitely run them together, am considering getting more and would do the same, for reasons you gave), but, what he is referring to is your comment about "not generally tolerated on this forum." That does seem like a strange thing to say for a new account with like two posts who just joined this month.
CrowCommand
12-18-19, 05:09
Ive got over 3k on my super 42 with BCM H2. I swapped out from the G buffer to go heavier (comes with H1 I believe). No signs of excessive wear, no malfs, going strong....I was a little nervous at first, but I have run mine enough to call it solid.
Maybe if someone had some hard evidence that it "WILL" cause problems, I could be persuaded. Until then I will drive on.
Blankstrap
12-18-19, 06:52
I don't disagree with your general idea here (ordered the spring/buffer combo and will definitely run them together, am considering getting more and would do the same, for reasons you gave), but, what he is referring to is your comment about "not generally tolerated on this forum." That does seem like a strange thing to say for a new account with like two posts who just joined this month.I get that. Been reading here a long time and based on that stand by the observation, FNG or no.
If you insist on changing the BCG then I'm surprised no one has stated the obvious yet: Geissele has their REBCG which IIRC they sold as a kit option with the Super42 spring/buffer combo on Black Friday. I ordered just the REBCG (haven't received it yet though) but I do recall the REBCG/spring/buffer being offered as one of their BF deals.
Mysteryman
12-19-19, 16:15
Without your knowing anything that went into the engineering, and decision to use only one metic to justify going against the manufacturer's warning, it's ill-advised -- but your rifle, your risk.
However, accusing a solid company with a stellar reputation of swindling their customers is poor form without actual evidence, and not generally tolerated on this forum.
I didn't accuse anyone of anything. What I'm saying is that based on my experience(1000 plus rounds) and taking some measurements, there is NO DIFFERENCE in the spring or their buffer when compared to a standard setup. If you think about it, anyone's aftermarket spring and buffer setup must mimic a milspec one if it is expected to work in a milspec receiver extension. What I am suggesting is that by indicating that their spring should be used with their buffer only they are trying to ensure that you use the spring/buffer combo at appropriate weights for appropriate rifle configurations. An H1 buffer is an H1 buffer, it doesn't matter who makes it. However, from Geissele's position it would make trouble shooting easier if the customer used their buffer with their spring, eliminating the potential for a customer to use an odd weight of buffer with their spring and then complaining about performance issues. Much like using OEM parts on a vehicle to eliminate the possibility of fitment/tolerance issues often experienced with aftermarket parts. Seeing as we already know the Receiver extension is what limits spring and buffer design, I think it's a fair presumption that any other buffer would work without damage to the rifle.
In that light, using non Mopar motor oil in your Dodge Charger will not cause damage, so long as the oil used meets the same specs. I suspect Geissele printed the "use only our buffer" on the package as a way of trying to convince customers to use their products and only their products. At the end of the day printing such a warning costs them nothing. If people follow it and buy their buffers and weights, great for them! If they ignore it(with a little thought and research) then Geissele losses nothing as it costs nothing to add 4 lines of text on the package. Same way Dodge will only recommend Mopar parts.
So you purchased the combo but decided not to use it as a combo?
It's your firearm and not doubting a standard buffer "can work" with their 42 spring although ill advised by the manufacture.
Im wondering why your chosen route when they come together as a package and is labeled specifically not to use standard sized buffer or damage WILL occur. Not "possibly" or "maybe". How many rounds do you have behind your setup?
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As I posted above and on page 2, I have 1000 rounds plus through this setup without issue. The buffer and spring are only sold as a combo. I used the combo when I bought it and it worked just fine. For my 12.5" build it suggested an H2 setup. I didn't see the need to pay for an additional tungsten buffer weight as I had a Spikes ST-T2 buffer in my spares. I did some measuring, and decided to run it. The extra weight improves performance(H2 vs H1), not sure whether the Tungsten powder in the ST-T2 makes a difference or not.
No, from an engineering standpoint, he's wrong: multiple variables might account for the damage warning; he assessed one and called it good.
Then he reinforced the justification by saying the company's lying, based on nada.
That's not solid data. At all. Pointing that out isn't "representing other members", it's replying.
What additional variables?? I'm all ears.
Much the same way any aftermarket spring or trigger is manufactured, if all external dimensions are the same, I see no reason why it wouldn't work, and definitely don't see a reason for damage. I could be wrong.
I did not say that Geissele is lying, don't try to put words in my mouth.
FWIW Geissele sells a standalone Super 42 rifle length spring that they say is compatible with a milspec rifle buffer.
They also say that all parts should be installed by a qualified gunsmith...how many people do you think follow that ;)
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SilentRecon
12-19-19, 18:39
FWIW Geissele sells a standalone Super 42 rifle length spring that they say is compatible with a milspec rifle buffer.
They also say that all parts should be installed by a qualified gunsmith...how many people do you think follow that ;)
Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using TapatalkI'm sorry but you're trying to justify your reasoning. 1k rounds is like taking a car for a test drive down your driveway and back.
The spring diameter is different, buffers are designed to LOCK into the springs on the shoulder of the buffer, not be free floating outside the spring/ shoulder of buffer as they arnt truly squared up on BCG impact
Buffer weight has nothing to do with this besides not wanting to pay $12 for a weight, so you've delegated yourself to using spare parts ignoring the warning.
You can also buy 1 tire completely different than your other 3 and it will give you your desired result. If you actually use the vehicle under weight or speed, it could be disasterous.
It works for you, then great! I think it's more of trying to convince others what "works for you" shouldn't be given as advise to ignore a manufactures warning.
I'm done now with this subject, it's become petty... people will do whatever they feel is right for them, not what is right for all. Happy shooting.
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Mysteryman
12-19-19, 19:05
I'm sorry but you're trying to justify your reasoning. 1k rounds is like taking a car for a test drive down your driveway and back.
The spring diameter is different, buffers are designed to LOCK into the springs on the shoulder of the buffer, not be free floating outside the spring/ shoulder of buffer as they arnt truly squared up on BCG impact
Buffer weight has nothing to do with this besides not wanting to pay $12 for a weight, so you've delegated yourself to using spare parts ignoring the warning.
You can also buy 1 tire completely different than your other 3 and it will give you your desired result. If you actually use the vehicle under weight or speed, it could be disasterous.
It works for you, then great! I think it's more of trying to convince others what "works for you" shouldn't be given as advise to ignore a manufactures warning.
I'm done now with this subject, it's become petty... people will do whatever they feel is right for them, not what is right for all. Happy shooting.
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He isn't justifying anything, merely pointing out that Geissele(like other brands) suggests having a gunsmith install parts which is something near no one does. Do you think Geissele has a separate manufacturing line for their rifle length springs vs their carbine springs?
And no, the spring diameters are NOT DIFFERENT. I've measured two Geissele 42 springs and a half dozen other milspec/generic springs, all measure the same 0.93" in diameter. As for the buffers, a milspec or "other than Geissele" buffer is 0.025" larger in diameter at the shoulder where the spring seats. So by your theory a non Geissele buffer would secure the spring with more tension than the stock buffer. Not to mention once the spring is seated against the shoulder and installed, there is always positive pressure from the spring against the buffer, it can't move..
SilentRecon
12-19-19, 21:02
He isn't justifying anything, merely pointing out that Geissele(like other brands) suggests having a gunsmith install parts which is something near no one does. Do you think Geissele has a separate manufacturing line for their rifle length springs vs their carbine springs?
And no, the spring diameters are NOT DIFFERENT. I've measured two Geissele 42 springs and a half dozen other milspec/generic springs, all measure the same 0.93" in diameter. As for the buffers, a milspec or "other than Geissele" buffer is 0.025" larger in diameter at the shoulder where the spring seats. So by your theory a non Geissele buffer would secure the spring with more tension than the stock buffer. Not to mention once the spring is seated against the shoulder and installed, there is always positive pressure from the spring against the buffer, it can't move..
"The reason the spring and buffer are sold together is that the ID (internal diameter) of the spring is somewhat smaller than a standard spring. While it will still fit over your standard buffer with a little effort, the spring would bulge out and create interference with the buffer tube which would cause it to drag. Our buffer is turned down on the diameter that the spring rests on to alleviate this problem."
There ya go.. The buffer is designed to lock into the spring so it stays square to the BCG on impact. If your buffer is free dangling outside of the spring, it's not squared up to your BCG which is even worse. If you've forced the spring around a standard buffer, you're creating drag from spring bulge. Both options are creating insufficient use of its intended design and eventually cause damage.
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Mysteryman
12-19-19, 21:15
"The reason the spring and buffer are sold together is that the ID (internal diameter) of the spring is somewhat smaller than a standard spring. While it will still fit over your standard buffer with a little effort, the spring would bulge out and create interference with the buffer tube which would cause it to drag. Our buffer is turned down on the diameter that the spring rests on to alleviate this problem."
There ya go.. The buffer is designed to lock into the spring so it stays square to the BCG on impact. If your buffer is free dangling outside of the spring, it's not squared up to your BCG which is even worse. If you've forced the spring around a standard buffer, you're creating drag from spring bulge. Both options are creating insufficient use of its intended design and eventually cause damage.
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Nope, sorry. The geissele buffer differs from a standard buffer only at the shoulder. The geissele shoulder is 0.025" or 25 thousands of an inch narrower than a standard buffer. That's 6 sheets of paper.
SilentRecon
12-19-19, 22:17
Nope, sorry. The geissele buffer differs from a standard buffer only at the shoulder. The geissele shoulder is 0.025" or 25 thousands of an inch narrower than a standard buffer. That's 6 sheets of paper.i appreciate your measuring skills but this is now hurting my brain.
So you are saying that the inner diameter of the super 42 springs is NOT smaller than a standard mil spec spring even though Geissele specifically states this and clearly self measurable? Im talking about THE SPRING. The giessele buffer is specifically turned down at the shoulder to fit the smaller INNER DIAMETER of the spring. I'm not sure how you are not getting this. The outter diameter is the same as a mil spec spring as to keep congruence with milspec tubes- the inner diameter is NOT. That is why a standard buffer doesn't fit. Seriously now... if they have to turn down the shoulder on their buffer, it's because it has to be able to fit the smaller inner diameter of the spring. The outside diameter is the same as a standard spring. If you force a regular buffer into the smaller inner diameter spring, you will have spring bulge around the buffer. Even if its 5 sheets of paper more, that creates drag in the buffer tube. You must have the buffer dangling in front not locked in ..which is probably worse.
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CrowCommand
12-20-19, 04:49
REEEEEEEEEEEEE!
Mysteryman
12-20-19, 13:54
i appreciate your measuring skills but this is now hurting my brain.
So you are saying that the inner diameter of the super 42 springs is NOT smaller than a standard mil spec spring even though Geissele specifically states this and clearly self measurable? Im talking about THE SPRING. The giessele buffer is specifically turned down at the shoulder to fit the smaller INNER DIAMETER of the spring. I'm not sure how you are not getting this. The outter diameter is the same as a mil spec spring as to keep congruence with milspec tubes- the inner diameter is NOT. That is why a standard buffer doesn't fit. Seriously now... if they have to turn down the shoulder on their buffer, it's because it has to be able to fit the smaller inner diameter of the spring. The outside diameter is the same as a standard spring. If you force a regular buffer into the smaller inner diameter spring, you will have spring bulge around the buffer. Even if its 5 sheets of paper more, that creates drag in the buffer tube. You must have the buffer dangling in front not locked in ..which is probably worse.
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Both the Geissele spring and a standard spring measure 0.75(plus or minus 5 thousands) inside diameter. Their outside diameter is 0.930"(give or take, hard to measure a single coil). There is no difference.
With the Geissele spring on their buffer or on the Spikes ST-T2 or a milspec buffer, there is no visible spring extending beyond the outside diameter of the buffer face. The spring measured when seated on the Geissele buffer, the Spikes, and a milspec buffer, all measure out at 0.970". The Geissele buffer shoulder is a mere 25 thousands of an inch narrow than either the Spikes or a milspec buffer. I strongly doubt that difference has any effect on the buffer, spring, or receiver extension.
SilentRecon
12-20-19, 14:25
Both the Geissele spring and a standard spring measure 0.75(plus or minus 5 thousands) inside diameter. Their outside diameter is 0.930"(give or take, hard to measure a single coil). There is no difference.
With the Geissele spring on their buffer or on the Spikes ST-T2 or a milspec buffer, there is no visible spring extending beyond the outside diameter of the buffer face. The spring measured when seated on the Geissele buffer, the Spikes, and a milspec buffer, all measure out at 0.970". The Geissele buffer shoulder is a mere 25 thousands of an inch narrow than either the Spikes or a milspec buffer. I strongly doubt that difference has any effect on the buffer, spring, or receiver extension.You are probably right, probably makes no difference...buuuuuuthttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191220/134fe9c87d1c401cb10cb0aebe2a71a5.jpg
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Mysteryman
12-20-19, 14:50
You are probably right, probably makes no difference...buuuuuuthttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191220/134fe9c87d1c401cb10cb0aebe2a71a5.jpg
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There is a chance that any part is out of spec. There's a chance that the sun might not come up tomorrow. The practical reality is that there's no difference, and the warning from Geissele is simply good marketing to keep customers buying their products.
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