Decisions, decisions... help me pick a 14.5" clone upper

[Diamondback]

With the C8 build winding down, it's time to step up planning on the M4, and I have three options I'm seriously considering.

First, "mission statement": This rifle is meant many for competition/educational/other range use, but I also want it to be Good2Go for Home D/Neighborhood Watch. And since the girlfriend's gun is a BCM, I'd like something that will be at least comparable performance when we're shooting a Loser Buys Lunch match so nobody has any excuses about hardware advantage.

Preferred option: Complete Government-profile Colt from Shark Arms. Concern, I don't know if they'll do a pin-and-weld, I have a query out to them about this. $650 plus cost of p/w and A2X substitution if they'll do it. If not, see if my usual FFL can P/W and just have upper shipped to him.

Alternate 1: BCM for $460 shipped from G&R. Still have to source my own KAC RAS and Matech BUIS, which add another $250 assuming Shark gets a reliable supply on them. Ballpark total around $710. A big gamble, and this price is with coupon codes that expire at end of the year.

Alternate 2: BCM direct, $532 shipped w/sales tax; same problems as G&R. Ballpark around $782 total.

Alternate 3: DSA, $570 all-up to my door including RAS and BUIS. I know they have some reputation questions, and for $70 more a genuine Colt from Shark seems the better deal.

Main concern here is in designating the Backup Plan in case Shark runs out/can't get more before the Washington State Legislature goes Full F-ing Retard again and tries to shove a Californicating Ban through again. In the position of a politically-pressured shooter who's still paying down 2019's build and may need a bridge-loan to take the G&R option before it expires, what Alternate Option would the M4C Hive Mind recommend? (If somebody else can offer a deal comparable to Shark, say $700-750 or better shipped for a pin-and-weld with RAS and Matech and likely to hold its own being fired alongside a BCM, would appreciate the reco.)

[3ACR_Scout]

I’m planning to order an M4 upper from Shark as soon as the budget allows. If you go that route, I’d recommend sending it to John Thomas of Retro Arms Works (https://retroarmsworks.com/index.html). He does a pin and weld that uses a spacer (like a washer) that matches the diameter of the barrel and then pins the original A2 flash suppressor, bringing it to the legal length. From the photos I’ve seen, it looks much better than an A2X, and all the reviews say that John is incredibly fast (often does the work and ships it back the same day he receives it), and very reasonably priced.

[JediGuy]

Good2Go for Home D/Neighborhood Watch.

I’m just curious where you can walk around with an M4 for neighborhood watch...

[Diamondback]

I’m planning to order an M4 upper from Shark as soon as the budget allows. If you go that route, I’d recommend sending it to John Thomas of Retro Arms Works (https://retroarmsworks.com/index.html). He does a pin and weld that uses a spacer (like a washer) that matches the diameter of the barrel and then pins the original A2 flash suppressor, bringing it to the legal length. From the photos I’ve seen, it looks much better than an A2X, and all the reviews say that John is incredibly fast (often does the work and ships it back the same day he receives it), and very reasonably priced.
Thanks, I'll contact him and see what he can quote me, in addition to checking with my local smith. I've seen him recommended before as having done work for LAV, and think he's one I reached out to as a possible lead on parts/advice for the C8 build.


I’m just curious where you can walk around with an M4 for neighborhood watch...
Well, not literal branded Neighborhood Watch, but using the term as a general catch-all for all the various flavors of Things Going Sideways. :) You're gonna laugh at this, but the property manager has actually asked me to help him learn about AR building... he wasn't really even a gun person until Seattle pushed I-1639 through.

[556BlackRifle]

Check your PM.

[Firefly]

Why does it need to be a “clone”?

Just get a good 14.5. A decent Mlok, LMT E-BCG, an optic of some kind and live yo life.

Actually just get an MCMR upper

[Boba Fett v2]

Agreed. Pretty much any quality M4 upper will do. Why does it need to be a clone of something? Put together or buy a rifle that meets your stated mission/goal/purpose. If LARPing is a part of it, well then...

[Stickman]

I’m just curious where you can walk around with an M4 for neighborhood watch...

Open carry is legal in WA, there shouldn't be any issues though that obviously depends on where you live and what the reasons are.

I own a bit of property, and I have an AR on me routinely.

[Stickman]

he wasn't really even a gun person until Seattle pushed I-1639 through.

I think there are a lot of people that way. If the state were going to ban Llamas, I would tell them to F off and buy Llamas before the Llama ban went through. I'm not a fan of any GOV restricting the liberties of its citizens.

[Stickman]

Alternate 1: BCM for $460 shipped from G&R. Still have to source my own KAC RAS and Matech BUIS, which add another $250 assuming Shark gets a reliable supply on them. Ballpark total around $710. A big gamble, and this price is with coupon codes that expire at end of the year.



If you go this option, you can get everything you want and just wait on the RAS and Matech BUIS. Speaking of which, I need to go zero an upper with Matech BUIS!

[Diamondback]

Why does it need to be a “clone”?

Just get a good 14.5. A decent Mlok, LMT E-BCG, an optic of some kind and live yo life.

Actually just get an MCMR upper

Fly, this is part of a His-and-Hers set to go with the C8. I'll do another "free hand" build later, but the point is I want a "basic milspec" in the rack too. (Besides, I'm becoming a fan of fixed FSB's for Serious Work irons... one less thing to fight with, especially since my area's "line of sight" for potential engagement is typically 100 yards or less.) That and, as a former scale modeler I like the challenge of faithful replication... I don't get out to the range much (not that there are any around here that are AR-friendly to go shoot at anyway) with Old Boat-Anchor needing 24/7 care, so I'm somewhat constrained to studying and practicing gunsmithing craftsmanship.

[vicious_cb]

Why does it need to be a “clone”?

Just get a good 14.5. A decent Mlok, LMT E-BCG, an optic of some kind and live yo life.

Actually just get an MCMR upper

I dont get the whole clone business either.

Either get the best fighting rifle you can given your budget or get the most faithful replica given your budget. Pick one.

[vicious_cb]

Fly, this is part of a His-and-Hers set to go with the C8. I'll do another "free hand" build later, but the point is I want a "basic milspec" in the rack too. (Besides, I'm becoming a fan of fixed FSB's for Serious Work irons... one less thing to fight with, especially since my area's "line of sight" for potential engagement is typically 100 yards or less.) That and, as a former scale modeler I like the challenge of faithful replication... I don't get out to the range much (not that there are any around here that are AR-friendly to go shoot at anyway) with Old Boat-Anchor needing 24/7 care, so I'm somewhat constrained to studying and practicing gunsmithing craftsmanship.

Lets say you wanted to make a 100% correct M4 copy, unfortunately thats pretty much impossible unless you SBR it due to the correct muzzle devices not being long enough to meet the legal 16" with a pin and weld.

[Diamondback]

That's kind of a given, the point is "as close as legally possible without a Form 1 or Form 4"--right now I'm thinking whether I go BCM or Colt, ship to John Thomas and have him add a ~1/4" shim before pinning just to bump the A2 out to legal length. Neither of these are "perfect" because they only have 2-position selectors anyway...

I can't paint stripes the width of a hair anymore but this... at least this, the damnable hand tremors will still let me do. Doesn't take pinstriping-level steady hands to hammer pins and wrench nuts into place...

[vicious_cb]

That's kind of a given, the point is "as close as legally possible without a Form 1 or Form 4"--right now I'm thinking whether I go BCM or Colt, ship to John Thomas and have him add a ~1/4" shim before pinning just to bump the A2 out to legal length. Neither of these are "perfect" because they only have 2-position selectors anyway...

I can't paint stripes the width of a hair anymore but this... at least this, the damnable hand tremors will still let me do. Doesn't take pinstriping-level steady hands to hammer pins and wrench nuts into place...

Logistically just get the Colt since they have the FSB pinned from the factory.

[Diamondback]

Logistically just get the Colt since they have the FSB pinned from the factory.

FSB pinned, or FH pinned? I thought both Colt and BCM pinned FSB's, we're talking about pinning the muzzle device. As it is, BCM had to extend the C8 from Colt Canada spec (15.7") by 1/3" to make it Title I from the factory unpinned...

[vicious_cb]

FSB pinned, or FH pinned? I thought both Colt and BCM pinned FSB's, we're talking about pinning the muzzle device. As it is, BCM had to extend the C8 from Colt Canada spec (15.7") by 1/3" to make it Title I from the factory unpinned...

Oops nevermind, I was looking at spare barrels not complete uppers. Personally Id still just get the Colt over the BCM due to the barrel quality.

[Diamondback]

Oops nevermind, I was looking at spare barrels not complete uppers. Personally Id still just get the Colt over the BCM due to the barrel quality.

Colt's been Plan A here all along... my dilemma has been Plan B in case my preferred supplier and upper can't deliver in a timely manner. I'm giving Shark 'til a week after New Year's to reply to my email sent last week, then it's time to find another vendor and switch to a backup option.

[Firefly]

Omg you’re way overthinking it. Just get a BCM middy OMG for real.

[markm]

Omg you’re way overthinking it. Just get a BCM middy OMG for real.

This. The BCM 14.5 middy can't be beat.

[Wake27]

Omg you’re way overthinking it. Just get a BCM middy OMG for real.

Yup. I don’t know why people still buy carbines.


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[MajorHunk]

I have a SOCOM upper i put together to train with time to time as it is same as my work rifle. Same with pistols i moved over to glock only with the exception of an m17 i should be buying tomorrow to match the socom for work related.

I still enjoy using my nice stuff from time to time though.

[Hammer_Man]

Or buy the Colt 14.5" SOCOM barrel, and gather the rest of the parts as your budget allows. That way you can piece it together over time, instead of maxing out your credit cards, and incurring debt. I would suggest shopping for the KAC RAS, and Matech on eBay, Amazon, or the equipment exchange.