Bolt Rifles and Military Primers

[AndyLate]

Should a bolt rifle reliably fire rounds loaded with military (i.e. hard) primers?

Specifically, I have a .223 Ruger American Rifle and a CZ 527.

I would like the option of using CCI No 41 primers in reloads and shooting the rounds in either AR or bolt guns.

Thank you

Andy

[jack crab]

Probably not a primer issue, but a chamber dimension issue.

[AndyLate]

Probably not a primer issue, but a chamber dimension issue.

Thanks, Jack. I edited the post to clarify what I am asking.

[markm]

Shouldn't be an issue. I've only had magnum rifle primers fail to ignite in a pistol (glock).

Bolt gun firing pins should run them all day long.

[mack7.62]

In looking for a fast lock time bolt actions use a robust firing pin spring, I don't see how military primers will make any difference as long as firing pin protrusion is adequate.

[AndyLate]

Thank you. I suspected the "military" primers should not be a problem, but wanted to check with more knowledgeable folks.

[AndyLate]

Quick update - I took the Ruger to the range Sunday. I had no issues firing 100+ rounds, including Hornady Frontier .223 ammo with crimped (and I assume mil-spec) primers. I cleaned the rifle after the last time, so maybe it had some debris causing problems.

The RAR compact shows decent precision and I am looking forward to taking my wife out shooting with it this weekend. It has the short stock and the scope is mounted where it's comfortable for her. Suprisingly I can shoot and cycle it OK, but it's a bit cramped.

I was a little concerned buying a used RAR, but it's growing on me and the price was right. Definitely compact and light with a Leupold VX2 2-7 scope.

Andy

[Lost River]

I have never had a problem in firing literally thousands of rounds of 5.56 and 7.62 rounds through bolt action rifles.

[AndyLate]

I took the RAR 223 to the range Friday and had two failures to fire out of ~ 100 rounds of Federal 55 grain 223 Black.

I am just going to stick to commercial type ammunition or handloads with standard primers. I have ~5000 or so CCI 400 primers on hand, so it's not a sacrifice.

I know Ruger would fix it if I wanted to send it in, it just suprises me it's an issue at all.

Andy

P.S. It does explain why the rifle was used when I bought it.

[Humpy70]

Hot loads in a 223 ignited with standard small rifle primers may exhibit primer failures. Don't have a pic of one but if your primers looked like they are cratered AT THE EDGE OF THE ACTUAL INDENT chances are you primers are about to fail which can:

1. fail delivering hot gases to the striker nose eating it away.
2. cause the middle of the primer (indent area) to completely separate and a piece of the primer goes into the striker channel which is likely to retard striker from moving forward and not extend beyond the bolt face correctly.
3. If you see a primer with just a hole in the back where the indent is supposed to be pull your bolt down and run probes in and hopefully you can get it to disengage and fall out the big end.
4. MILSPEC primers need about .022" copper indent energy to ignite reliably. Some manufacturers have a internal requirement of .020 indent on their rifles, others are satisfied with .016" indent (SAAMI recommendation) and other just put them together and ship them out and hope you will not be sharp enough to figure out what goes wrong when you get a click instead of a bang.

Before you get a click you make get a click/bang at same time where you can detect the striker fell followed by instant ignition which I call a click/bang and some call a hang fire.

I have had at least two rifles exhibit primer failures and insert primer material inside bolt. I have had others that showed the crater edge and I changed the striker spring and corrected it before they failed.

You can also get this situation hunting on cold mornings when the grease/oil inside your bolt body thickens and retards the striker energy.

The main thing you need to remember if primers need two things for reliable ignition, energy and striker velocity. Retard one or the other and you are going to CLICKVILLE.

[AndyLate]

My RAR just isn't indenting the harder primers enough to fire them. Bolt and striker are clean. It's hard for me to tell at this point if the striker is on the short side of allowable or the spring is weak. I could sent it back to Ruger but the lazy thing to do is simply shoot the ammo it doesn't have issues with.

Andy

[Humpy70]

Call Ruger customer service. I have had others tell me they called saying they were using COMBLOC 7.62X39 and were told their rifles were not designed for military ammo. Won't hurt to see what they say.

[Bubba FAL]

I recently bought a RAR in .300 BLK. It has no problem setting off my loads with CCI #41 primers.

[robbins290]

My ruger american in 762x39 chews thru the hard com bloc primers all day.

[wanderson]

Assuming ‘military primer’ means comblock steel case ammo, it might help to mention what brand.
Not all the same. Wolf & Red Army are importers and buy from multiple factories. Usually anything from Barnaul plant like Brown or Silver Bear is good.
Before you assume it’s a hard primer issue, check to see if the primers are set too deep. I’ve seen that in more than one caliber.
I know historically Rugers have had some issues with short protrusions on firing pins but I think that’s been corrected. I do know my 6.5Grendel Ruger Predator has never failed to touch off steel case Wolf.

[AndyLate]

Assuming ‘military primer’ means comblock steel case ammo, it might help to mention what brand.
Not all the same. Wolf & Red Army are importers and buy from multiple factories. Usually anything from Barnaul plant like Brown or Silver Bear is good.
Before you assume it’s a hard primer issue, check to see if the primers are set too deep. I’ve seen that in more than one caliber.
I know historically Rugers have had some issues with short protrusions on firing pins but I think that’s been corrected. I do know my 6.5Grendel Ruger Predator has never failed to touch off steel case Wolf.

I did indeed mention the brands at issue. All brass case US produced ammo. Thank you for the feedback, it seems like the issue is with my rifle, not with the model.

Andy