View Full Version : Iran's Qasem Suleimani killed by US airstrike at Baghdad airport
SomeOtherGuy
01-02-20, 19:39
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/rocket-attack-shuts-down-baghdad-airport-after-joint-us-iraqi-base-targeted
Iraqi state TV moments ago announced the death of Iran's most senior elite military commander, IRGC Quds Force chief Qasem Suleimani:
I have no feelings for this guy, but no interest in a war with Iran either.
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/rocket-attack-shuts-down-baghdad-airport-after-joint-us-iraqi-base-targeted
I have no feelings for this guy, but no interest in a war with Iran either.
The general philosophy in SOCOM back in day was:
"Don't Fight them - Kill them".
No need to get into a fight, which could mean a protracted engagement - get in and kill it, then leave.
I wonder how far in advance this was planned, and if it was factored into the decision to deploy/prepare for deployment the forces sent to reinforce the embassy. Either way, I'm glad they're in place now, as I bet things will get ugly in Baghdad before they get better.
I’m fairly surprised we did this. That’s a big dick energy move.
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Averageman
01-02-20, 20:15
Yup, it's turning out to be POTUS Trump's Benghazi alright, Hmmmm?
I'm thinking we have enough rebels inside Iran working for us that everyone in the top tier Iranian players are being watched 24/7.
I'm not surprised.
That’s a big dick energy move.
No complaints here.
The general philosophy in SOCOM back in day was:
"Don't Fight them - Kill them".
No need to get into a fight, which could mean a protracted engagement - get in and kill it, then leave.
Yup. AMF.
That escalated quickly lol
Adrenaline_6
01-02-20, 20:50
All that crap that Iran pulled earlier was not forgotten and the favor returned in spades it seems.
Our leaders are sowing the wind ...
Dr. Bullseye
01-02-20, 21:18
The general philosophy in SOCOM back in day was:
"Don't Fight them - Kill them".
No need to get into a fight, which could mean a protracted engagement - get in and kill it, then leave.
This above.
Forget the hearts and minds. Forget rebuilding the infrastructure. Forget nation building. You can kill a political philosophy by killing all those that subscribe to it. That is what we did to the Nazis. We hung those not killed in war. I only wish the drone had flown down afterward and deposited a MAGA hat on the wreckage.
Our leaders are sowing the wind ...
If anything we are models of restraint. Iran sows continually in many venues. They get reaped only occasionally when they act too close to home.
Lefty heads exploding in 5, 4, ...
Our leaders are sowing the wind ...
And we deliver the Hellfire....
I have no feelings for this guy, but no interest in a war with Iran either.
Iran is less likely to mess with US now than 24 hrs ago, and Kim Jun Ung is probably changing sleep locations tonight every hour.
Lindsey Graham is tweeting if Iran takes any action, their ability to produce oil should be eliminated.
Gen. Qassim Soleimani was a key player in the IED activity during the Iraq war that killed and maimed many US Soldiers and Marines. A day after Iran's Ayatollah says Trump can't do anything, this happens - we take out TWO top Iranian Generals responsible for a lot of nasty stuff.
Don't fight them - kill them.
A day after Iran's Ayatollah says Trump can't do anything, this happens - we take out TWO top Iranian Generals
Don't you love it?!!!!
....Iran will be held fully responsible for lives lost, or damage incurred, at any of our facilities. They will pay a very BIG PRICE! This is not a Warning, it is a Threat. Happy New Year! - Donald Trump, 12/31/2019
Straight Shooter
01-02-20, 22:01
....Iran will be held fully responsible for lives lost, or damage incurred, at any of our facilities. They will pay a very BIG PRICE! This is not a Warning, it is a Threat. Happy New Year! - Donald Trump, 12/31/2019
Thats the most BALLER thing I EVER heard a POTUS say.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-02-20, 22:06
This above.
Forget the hearts and minds. Forget rebuilding the infrastructure. Forget nation building. You can kill a political philosophy by killing all those that subscribe to it. That is what we did to the Nazis. We hung those not killed in war. I only wish the drone had flown down afterward and deposited a MAGA hat on the wreckage.
Carpet and firebombing helped too.
Iran is less likely to mess with US now than 24 hrs ago, and Kim Jun Ung is probably changing sleep locations tonight every hour.
Lindsey Graham is tweeting if Iran takes any action, their ability to produce oil should be eliminated.
And that would tank the stock market and put the re-election at risk. Trump isn't going to be a bitch, but I think the real thumping will come next year. He'll keep it personal and personnel until then.
If the Iranian IRG becomes the poster child for how you don't screw with the US, so be it.
Diamondback
01-02-20, 22:09
To the Operators who did this job: Nice hit! NICE HIT!
Political aside, anybody wanna place bets on how long before Admiral Collard Green, piss be upon him, tries to court-martial and railroad them "Because #OrangeManBad" like he's STILL trying to do with Eddie Gallagher?
thepatriot2705
01-02-20, 22:13
Gen. Qassim Soleimani was a key player in the IED activity during the Iraq war that killed and maimed many US Soldiers and Marines. A day after Iran's Ayatollah says Trump can't do anything, this happens - we take out TWO top Iranian Generals responsible for a lot of nasty stuff.
Don't fight them - kill them.
About time this POS was killed. The amount of Americans he killed and wounded justified this before the embassy attack.
That Iranian general was in the wrong country, on the wrong side, fighting the wrong battle, with the wrong president.
Diamondback
01-02-20, 22:19
About time this POS was killed. The amount of Americans he killed and wounded justified this before the embassy attack.
Amen, sir--not just national but personal here. One of my friends on faculty at my alma mater was a Persian-American (she was always very specific about "'Persian,' NOT 'Iranian'") who came over here as a little girl with her parents in '79 when Khomeini put a hit on them, so as far as I'm concerned the death of any Organ of the State for that regime is cause for celebration, the higher-ranking the better. Liberal Democrat though she be in personal politics, I hope she and hers sleep a little easier tonight.
DOD statement.
https://www.defense.gov/Newsroom/Releases/Release/Article/2049534/statement-by-the-department-of-defense/source/GovDelivery/
At the direction of the President, the U.S. military has taken decisive defensive action to protect U.S. personnel abroad by killing Qasem Soleimani, the head of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps-Quds Force, a U.S.-designated Foreign Terrorist Organization.
General Soleimani was actively developing plans to attack American diplomats and service members in Iraq and throughout the region. General Soleimani and his Quds Force were responsible for the deaths of hundreds of American and coalition service members and the wounding of thousands more. He had orchestrated attacks on coalition bases in Iraq over the last several months – including the attack on December 27th – culminating in the death and wounding of additional American and Iraqi personnel. General Soleimani also approved the attacks on the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad that took place this week.
This strike was aimed at deterring future Iranian attack plans. The United States will continue to take all necessary action to protect our people and our interests wherever they are around the world.
So the CO of that [wanna-be] Delta/DEVGRU-like Quds Force got whacked? What a shame. A damn shame I tell you.
....Iran will be held fully responsible for lives lost, or damage incurred, at any of our facilities. They will pay a very BIG PRICE! This is not a Warning, it is a Threat. Happy New Year! - Donald Trump, 12/31/2019
NEVER, EVER THREATEN THE UNITED STATES AGAIN OR YOU WILL SUFFER CONSEQUENCES THE LIKES OF WHICH FEW THROUGHOUT HISTORY HAVE EVER SUFFERED BEFORE. WE ARE NO LONGER A COUNTRY THAT WILL STAND FOR YOUR DEMENTED WORDS OF VIOLENCE & DEATH. BE CAUTIOUS! - Donald Trump, 07/22/2018
Aftermath photos of strike from a freelance journo.
https://twitter.com/Ehab8Alobaidy/status/1212870245679091724/photo/1
"Rockets Strike #Iraq's #BaghdadAirport, #USMilitary Choppers Spotted in Airspace. Three rockets landed on the edge of #Baghdad International Airport , causing explosions but no deaths or injuries, according to local reporters."
Little premature on the body count.
If anything we are models of restraint. Iran sows continually in many venues. They get reaped only occasionally when they act too close to home.
You’re very ignorant of our history. This is all going to end very badly for us.
Cheerleading violence abroad will eventually come back on all of us, here at home.
Aftermath photos of strike from a freelance journo.
https://twitter.com/Ehab8Alobaidy/status/1212870245679091724/photo/1
"Rockets Strike #Iraq's #BaghdadAirport, #USMilitary Choppers Spotted in Airspace. Three rockets landed on the edge of #Baghdad International Airport , causing explosions but no deaths or injuries, according to local reporters."
Little premature on the body count.
7 dead, he was ID'd by his ring. Their is a photo of it floating around
MA2_Navy_Veteran
01-02-20, 23:10
I pray each night that the Iranians & N Koreans will make some mistake in their efforts to gain nukes which causes them to inadvertently GLASS THEMSELVES. Alas, my prayers have yet to be answered. :(
You’re very ignorant of our history. This is all going to end very badly for us.
Cheerleading violence abroad will eventually come back on all of us, here at home.
Soleimani was one of the most evil men in the world. He was responsible for hundreds of American deaths. He was coming to Baghdad to cause more American deaths. He was internationally banned from traveling outside Iran. He ignored that ban and he paid the price.
I find your attitude defeatist and counterproductive. I’m one who doesn’t approve of foreign entanglements and wish we’d never stayed in Iraq or Afghanistan, but this strike was a well deserved blow to the Iranians and their global threats.
The next time their little boats come out to “shadow” our ships in international waters, we need to consider that an act of aggression and destroy every last one of them. They’re a threat to international shipping and a threat to us, so we need to stop handling them with kid gloves.
If the government of Iran wants a fight, so be it.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-02-20, 23:19
You’re very ignorant of our history. This is all going to end very badly for us.
Cheerleading violence abroad will eventually come back on all of us, here at home.
And the more effective they are, the more counterproductive they will be. Sure, something here is in their scope but more likely we'll see attacks on The Kingdom and messing with tanker traffic. A little stupidity around Israel. Start blowing up malls here? Cyber attack? If the world thinks that Trump's rhetoric means that he won't engage are sorely mistaken. We haven't fought a war were our aim is to kill people in 70 years. You think Trump gives a flying fudge about what the world thinks of him? How he runs a war? Against the Iranians, who are not any ones BFF list. Russians? Ask them if they'd like to fight the Ukrainians on real Russian soil. China? Really, China got knocked in the nuts with tariffs. They aren't ready to go. Keep them in oil and tell them to STFU.
You don't think Trump would take a nice warm war for the next year for domestic politics? Impeach him over a few missiles when he is slinging 10x that every day?
Our history is killing at a 1000:1 ratio and leaving regions and continents in ruble, all while trying to be nice. There is no 'nice' in Trump and he wins cheap.
The long standing problem with Iran is exactly as you state it. They have played nasty for far too long on a regional and global scale with no real blow back at home.
I pray each night that the Iranians & N Koreans will make some mistake in their efforts to gain nukes which causes them to inadvertently GLASS THEMSELVES. Alas, my prayers have yet to be answered. :(
Always wondered if there was a way that Stuxnet could’ve been held back until they had enough enriched uranium to turn their facility into another Chernobyl
You’re very ignorant of our history. This is all going to end very badly for us.
Cheerleading violence abroad will eventually come back on all of us, here at home.
So will being a little bitch abroad.
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You’re very ignorant of our history. This is all going to end very badly for us.
Cheerleading violence abroad will eventually come back on all of us, here at home.
There is a new POTUS writing history now.
America is not in danger, we are the danger. We knock on doors now.
You’re very ignorant of our history. This is all going to end very badly for us.
Cheerleading violence abroad will eventually come back on all of us, here at home.
I remember the history of the Libertarians of the late 60's, spitting on American troops returning home from Vietnam. Very few know that the Libertarians of that era were allied during protests with the Students for a Democratic Society, AKA the Weathermen. I also know the history of the hatred for the MIC (Military Industrial Complex) and the non-interventionist belief system. The politics of the 60's is still around.
I was part of that tip of the spear in foreign intervention, and I used the products of the Military Industrial Complex in my work. This "hit" was probably the most cost efficient use of taxpayer money the Pentagon could do. That AGM-114 Hellfire, produced by the good folks at Lockheed Martin in their Orlando, Florida facility, cost @ $115,000. Considering all the death and destruction those demons we took out have been responsible for, and in the future, we saved future money and lives.
And some Lockheed Martin workers will have job security because they'll be making more of those wonderful products for future use in killing worldwide evil.
MontanaMarine
01-02-20, 23:37
There's a new sheriff in town. This one doesn't reward terror against our diplomatic posts with C-130s full of palletized cash.
Soleimani was one of the most evil men in the world. He was responsible for hundreds of American deaths. He was coming to Baghdad to cause more American deaths. He was internationally banned from traveling outside Iran. He ignored that ban and he paid the price.
I find your attitude defeatist and counterproductive. I’m one who doesn’t approve of foreign entanglements and wish we’d never stayed in Iraq or Afghanistan, but this strike was a well deserved blow to the Iranians and their global threats.
The next time their little boats come out to “shadow” our ships in international waters, we need to consider that an act of aggression and destroy every last one of them. They’re a threat to international shipping and a threat to us, so we need to stop handling them with kid gloves.
If the government of Iran wants a fight, so be it.
The United States has been interfering in Iran’s internal affairs since the overthrow of Mosaddegh in 1953. We then proceeded to fund and arm a tyrant who terrorized and brutalized his own population, which in turn generated the Islamic Revolution.
Our policies and actions were all counter-productive and Unconstitutional.
Our undeclared Middle Eastern wars and military actions were, and are, all Unconstitutional, illegal, and immoral.
Let us hear nothing more of our Founding Fathers or the Law of the Land that they bequeathed us, and make no more pretense of our devotion to the Constitution or the Rule of Law, when we do not abide by it or respect it, ourselves.
The same violence our leaders use overseas with our acquiescence will one day be used on all of us, as well.
“Every ambitious would-be empire, clarions it abroad that she is conquering the world to bring it peace, security and freedom, and it is sacrificing her sons only for the most noble and humanitarian purposes. That is a lie; and it is an ancient lie, yet generations still rise and believe it.”
- Henry David Thoreau
So will being a little bitch abroad.
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You don’t get it.
MontanaMarine
01-03-20, 00:03
Many of our former enemies are now strong allies.
Iran is choosing this path.
You’re very ignorant of our history. This is all going to end very badly for us.
Cheerleading violence abroad will eventually come back on all of us, here at home.
Others here have answered your charge more eloquently than I could. I expect I am more aware of our history than you can imagine.
OH58D: I am so proud of you all volunteer troops who have stepped up in last 30 years. And happy to see at least half the country appreciates your service. I was one of those spit at and called baby killer in 1969 on ETSing at the Seattle airport. There were near zero thank-you-for-your-service types back then. Twenty years before I heard one.. Shucking the uniform as quickly as possible was most every vets goal back then.
The United States has been interfering in Iran’s internal affairs since the overthrow of Mosaddegh in 1953. We then proceeded to fund and arm a tyrant who terrorized and brutalized his own population, which in turn generated the Islamic Revolution.
Our policies and actions were all counter-productive and Unconstitutional.
Our undeclared Middle Eastern wars and military actions were, and are, all Unconstitutional, illegal, and immoral.
Let us hear nothing more of our Founding Fathers or the Law of the Land that they bequeathed us, and make no more pretense of our devotion to the Constitution or the Rule of Law, when we do not abide by it or respect it, ourselves.
The same violence our leaders use overseas with our acquiescence will one day be used on all of us, as well.
“Every ambitious would-be empire, clarions it abroad that she is conquering the world to bring it peace, security and freedom, and it is sacrificing her sons only for the most noble and humanitarian purposes. That is a lie; and it is an ancient lie, yet generations still rise and believe it.”
- Henry David Thoreau
You don’t get it.
It doesn't take a genius to know that you can't make the whole world happy. If America projects force to mitigate international threats, it'll piss people off and some will want to kill us. If America appeases the shit out of the rest of the world and lets everyone do what they want, more powerful people will still want to kill us. The only real option is a balance, like most things in life. President Trump just helped to correct that balance, because for eight of the last 10 or so years, most of the world has been shown they can **** with us and not just get away with it, but be rewarded. I don't know what he'll do next, nor do I know what Iran or the rest of the world will do. But I am thankful that either way, our country is no longer bending over to submit to the will of terrorists.
Also, as one of the people that would likely be expected to use violence against "all of [you]" in your scenario, you don't get it.
You are misguided.
This attack will serve no useful long-term purpose but to draw us further into (more) Unconstitutional and immoral war: further bankrupting us, and costing us many thousands more lost lives.
This attack was carried out in an airport being used by civilians, many of whom are Westerners and Americans. It will create many more enemies for us, worldwide - not just in the ME.
We have opened Pandora’s Box, and there will be grave and unintended consequences.
”America cannot have an empire abroad and a Republic at home.”
- Mark Twain
7 dead, he was ID'd by his ring. Their is a photo of it floating around
60195
Belmont31R
01-03-20, 02:30
You are misguided.
This attack will serve no useful long-term purpose but to draw us further into (more) Unconstitutional and immoral war: further bankrupting us, and costing us many thousands more lost lives.
This attack was carried out in an airport being used by civilians, many of whom are Westerners and Americans. It will create many more enemies for us, worldwide - not just in the ME.
We have opened Pandora’s Box, and there will be grave and unintended consequences.
”America cannot have an empire abroad and a Republic at home.”
- Mark Twain
Unconstitutional...lol no
Hit wasn't carried out IN an airport...it was on a road outside of the airport.
We don't have an empire abroad. This ain't 1700's and 1800's England. The US does more for worldwide security and stability than every other country combined. Despite what the left likes to preach about our presence on the world stage keeps a lot of idiots from doing dumb things. The world economy would come to a halt if we stopped our blue water operations and 'brought the troops home'. Shipping lanes would become rife in attacks and disputes. Without the US Europe would not have defeated the Nazis or kept the USSR at bay from Western Europe or combat the spread of communism.
No, the US has not been perfect, and we've made mistakes that have cost lives. This asshole deserved to die and hiding from Iran isn't going to keep Iran from attacking us. The US has been incredibly patient with Iran for far too long. This goes back to the original embassy attack and Beirut barracks bombing. What was the excuse back then? Just our support of Israel puts us on their enemies list.
Edit:
Iran has been committing acts of terrorism since 1979 when the muslim fanatics took over. They fund and give material support to proxy terrorist groups. They've attacked western troops numerous times without any provocation. Running home and pretending they don't exist doesn't keep us safe or make them go away. Im all for not getting into long drawn out conflicts where we don't send enough troops to get the job done and/or hamstring them so badly we end up in stalemate. Im all for not paying trillions towards nation building muslim countries. But the ninnies running around crying about escalation have to pretend Iran hasn't been attacking us in unprovoked fashion for 41 years now. As I mentioned early just our support of Israel is enough for these fanatics to hate and attack us.
....Iran will be held fully responsible for lives lost, or damage incurred, at any of our facilities. They will pay a very BIG PRICE! This is not a Warning, it is a PROMISE. Happy New Year! - Donald Trump, 12/31/2019
What should have been said.
.....
Our policies and actions were all counter-productive and Unconstitutional.
Our undeclared Middle Eastern wars and military actions were, and are, all Unconstitutional, illegal, and immoral.
...
Utter B.S.
There is nothing immoral about sending a raging psychopath into oblivion. And I have little doubt that all those within the blast radius shared his mental illness.
I've not been a huge fan of Trump, but this reminds me of when Reagan sent a missile into Khadafi's tent... he quickly realised that we were done taking his crap.
God Bless America!
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Coal Dragger
01-03-20, 03:16
You are misguided.
This attack will serve no useful long-term purpose but to draw us further into (more) Unconstitutional and immoral war: further bankrupting us, and costing us many thousands more lost lives.
This attack was carried out in an airport being used by civilians, many of whom are Westerners and Americans. It will create many more enemies for us, worldwide - not just in the ME.
We have opened Pandora’s Box, and there will be grave and unintended consequences.
”America cannot have an empire abroad and a Republic at home.”
- Mark Twain
I’ve read enough of your posts in this thread and in others to have positivity ID’d you as a moron.
In case you missed it we don’t need Mideast oil anymore, and our need to be involved in that region is now very limited. We’re not getting dragged back in, and if we do I don’t expect it will be to do nation building nonsense like I got to do in 2004.
Iran isn’t going to immediately do anything, we called their bluff.
TheChunkNorris
01-03-20, 05:05
You are misguided.
This attack will serve no useful long-term purpose but to draw us further into (more) Unconstitutional and immoral war: further bankrupting us, and costing us many thousands more lost lives.
This attack was carried out in an airport being used by civilians, many of whom are Westerners and Americans. It will create many more enemies for us, worldwide - not just in the ME.
We have opened Pandora’s Box, and there will be grave and unintended consequences.
”America cannot have an empire abroad and a Republic at home.”
- Mark Twain
So you know absolutely nothing regarding the area in which the strike was carried out so spare me, no civilians have access to random areas in any airport, let alone Baghdad International. I worked with the Iraqis on behalf of the US on the military side of BIAP for 7 months... I know the area well.
I’ve been working overseas for 11 years and served 6 years in the CSAR C-130 world, people will hate US regardless of what we do. It amazes me how some weak people view this as opening Pandora’s box. People have played chicken with the US for too long and Iran was gotten away with this garbage for a while now. Back to Pandora’s box and the events that lead to this.
- US strikes Iranian backed Syrian rebels in Northern Iraq
- Iranian backed militia and supporters attack embassy, no one person was killed so one can assume they were let in to avoid bloodshed. I’ve been to that embassy... very few places like that on the planet.
- US strikes Iranian destabilizing mastermind, a clandestine operations General and one of the most powerful figures in the Iran.
Couple all of that above with the embargoes that are crippling their economy AND the fact their people are on the verge of revolt, how does that equate to the US opening Pandora’s box? I can guarantee they wished they didn’t hit the embassy because now they’re without a major contributor or GLOBAL terrorism and someone people feared. Why wouldn’t you say they opened Pandora’s box when they attacked the embassy? Your thought process reeks of the spineless cowards that have put the US’ foreign democracy in the pile of crap it’s in now.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of Evil is for good men to do nothing” - Edmund Burke
Good. That’s how it should be done. One less POS running around plotting our downfall. Now we need to find a way to take out the ayatollah next. We need to do that and never step foot in that country afterwords. No more nation building, just solid don’t **** with us anymore statements.
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Well the new year started out with a bang ....
Happy New Year.
platoonDaddy
01-03-20, 06:03
Well the new year started out with a bang ....
Happy New Year.
AMEN!
khamenei taunted Trump before the strike, "you can't do anything" For sure "SOME PEOPLE DID SOMETHING"
That Iranian general was in the wrong country, on the wrong side, fighting the wrong battle, with the wrong president.
Exactly. He was the leader of a designated terrorist organization, the Quds, and was in Iraq to kill Americans. Regardless of where he was from and what rank he held, he was a terrorist.
TheChunkNorris
01-03-20, 06:23
Exactly. He was the leader of a designated terrorist organization, the Quds, and was in Iraq to kill Americans. Regardless of where he was from and what rank he held, he was a terrorist.
Bingo and I believe there was a push to add him to the UN travel ban. Just like the old saying goes, “Play stupid games, Win stupid prizes.”.
The United States has been interfering in Iran’s internal affairs since the overthrow of Mosaddegh in 1953. We then proceeded to fund and arm a tyrant who terrorized and brutalized his own population, which in turn generated the Islamic Revolution.
First of all Mosaddegh was not over thrown by the USA. A worthless CIA officer by the name of Roosevelt claimed he was behind it, to try and be a big shot. It was picked up by the American media and was adopted as truth. Much like Russian interference in the last election and quid pro quo.
Jimmy Carter was an idiot for allowing the Sha to fall. Was he a bad guy yes, but the people that took over are 1000 times worse. So much human suffering could have been avoided, by keeping the Sha in and pushing for reform.
Now as to the current situation.
If I were advising the President, I would tell him keep on the current road. Sanctions need to be ramped up, destroy the economy. The people will rise up and over throw the government. The rioting in Iran has gone on for a long time under the radar of 99% of Americans. The people want change.
Senator Graham, if he said destroy the oil industry is an idiot. We don't need to do that to get what we want. I would want to keep everything intact for the people after the revolution.
You can have all the oil in the world, but if you can't sell it. I know I was approached to facilitate black market oil out of Venezuela. We need to shut down the illegal oil trade that is going on with Turkey and Iran.
If the USA does this correctly, we will see the fall of the mullahs and a new democratic Iran.
Sanctions and killing a few select people along the way.
Now what might Iran do?
I think we will see some terrorism directed at American targets overseas such as embassies and they will step up cyber terrorism.
If and when any of that happens, President Trump MUST resist going to conventional war with Iran. We want the people of Iran to over thrown the government, not rally around the flag because they were invaded.
Business_Casual
01-03-20, 07:08
You’re very ignorant of our history. This is all going to end very badly for us.
Cheerleading violence abroad will eventually come back on all of us, here at home.
Neville, is that you?
Business_Casual
01-03-20, 07:11
One less POS running around plotting our downfall.
Yeah, that’s the Democrats job!
Seriously though, Iran sanctions have wiped out the billions Barry sent them. The dominos are being lined up. Democrats are in bed with the interests that wanted the sanctions lifted and the billions to be spent on development so they could profit from it.
Outlander Systems
01-03-20, 07:39
Lol at the absolute state of hyperbolic doomerism.
This is all going to end very badly for us.
Others here have answered your charge more eloquently than I could. I expect I am more aware of our history than you can imagine.
OH58D: I am so proud of you all volunteer troops who have stepped up in last 30 years. And happy to see at least half the country appreciates your service. I was one of those spit at and called baby killer in 1969 on ETSing at the Seattle airport. There were near zero thank-you-for-your-service types back then. Twenty years before I heard one.. Shucking the uniform as quickly as possible was most every vets goal back then.
I signed my ROTC scholarship contract in 1977 and Commissioned in 1980. Nearly all my Senior Non-Com and Officer trainers were products of Vietnam. Lots of experience in that bunch and those still alive are some of my closest friends. I didn't sign up for altruistic reasons, but because of a scholarship which paid for college. I had always wanted to serve, but combing college money and service was a win-win for me. It was also a case of a large reduction in force beginning in 1975 where there was a loss of too many commissioned officers. They needed bodies again and I was willing to sign on the line.
Draftees/Conscripts who did the heavy lifting in the Vietnam years have my utmost respect.
Adrenaline_6
01-03-20, 08:36
The United States has been interfering in Iran’s internal affairs since the overthrow of Mosaddegh in 1953. We then proceeded to fund and arm a tyrant who terrorized and brutalized his own population, which in turn generated the Islamic Revolution.
Our policies and actions were all counter-productive and Unconstitutional.
Our undeclared Middle Eastern wars and military actions were, and are, all Unconstitutional, illegal, and immoral.
Let us hear nothing more of our Founding Fathers or the Law of the Land that they bequeathed us, and make no more pretense of our devotion to the Constitution or the Rule of Law, when we do not abide by it or respect it, ourselves.
The same violence our leaders use overseas with our acquiescence will one day be used on all of us, as well.
“Every ambitious would-be empire, clarions it abroad that she is conquering the world to bring it peace, security and freedom, and it is sacrificing her sons only for the most noble and humanitarian purposes. That is a lie; and it is an ancient lie, yet generations still rise and believe it.”
- Henry David Thoreau
What hole have you buried your head in? Other countries/ other kingdoms/ fiefdoms/ clans/ etc have been meddling in the others affairs since the beginning because it is a benefit to do so. To think that the other ones wouldn't do the same to yours is pure ignorance or naivety.
Please show where the policies are actually unconstitutional to persons not under protection of our constitution...please. You could say that about every part of land that any country ever expanding their own was illegal and immoral. It had to be taken from someone. That's how sh*t worked...and forever.
If Iran could inflict the same violence on us as we do, they already would be...and not because of us...because that's how the world works and that's how their religion works.
For someone posting at someone that they don't get it, you are absolutely clueless.
Voodoochild
01-03-20, 08:50
Keep it civil and on topic. If you can't then excuse yourself from this thread.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-03-20, 09:03
Don't forget that you can block post from people that are annoying. Less pyling on and less interaction makes for a bit more enjoyment. Take a weeks vacation from the aggravation.
On Iran, I always find it odd that there is this weird dichotomy- pre-revolution Iran was an illegal, western construct and at the same time a great example of what the middle east could be- secular-ish, educated and modern. So what is the natural state of the ME? Managed by western-backed strongmen or middle-east/middle-ages sh!t holes?
This^^^^
Pre-revolution Iran for all it's faults was a great place, if Carter had backed Mohammad Reza Pahlavi instead of kneecapping him the region might be a much better place. It turns my stomach whenever I think of the damage to the World that took place during Carter's one term in office Iran and Rhodesia as examples.
MountainRaven
01-03-20, 09:23
This above.
Forget the hearts and minds. Forget rebuilding the infrastructure. Forget nation building. You can kill a political philosophy by killing all those that subscribe to it. That is what we did to the Nazis. We hung those not killed in war. I only wish the drone had flown down afterward and deposited a MAGA hat on the wreckage.
Well. We hanged the ones who weren't useful to us.
The ones who were useful to us got spirited away to the US (or the Soviet Union) to help build rockets and airplanes. Those who weren't spirited away were put to work rebuilding East and West Germany (it was no coincidence that the Stasi resembled the Gestapo, for instance) and establishing their defense apparatus.
Adrenaline_6
01-03-20, 09:24
Don't forget that you can block post from people that are annoying. Less pyling on and less interaction makes for a bit more enjoyment. Take a weeks vacation from the aggravation.
On Iran, I always find it odd that there is this weird dichotomy- pre-revolution Iran was an illegal, western construct and at the same time a great example of what the middle east could be- secular-ish, educated and modern. So what is the natural state of the ME? Managed by western-backed strongmen or middle-east/middle-ages sh!t holes?
Yup.
There are many citizens in India that still wish the British never left.
My understanding is most Iraqis (Sunni's) are unhappy with Iran's meddling and have no love for Iran, and much of the prior protesting is actually against Iran vs the US, as well as issues such a corruption, etc.. So, this makes some sense. A UK outlet. It will be crickets from US outlets cuz "orange man bad"
Dancing on the streets of Baghdad after killing of top Iranian general
https://metro.co.uk/2020/01/03/dancing-streets-baghdad-killing-top-iranian-general-11994660/?
These nutmegs need American hatred to run their country so the people don't their leaders why they don't have food and running water. I'm convinced we will stay at some level of war from now because they will never stop poking the bear. They need war to lead and its all they know. I hate it, but its my perception.
PB
Folks are forgetting that Iraq is divided between Shiia and Sunni. The folks dancing in the street were Sunni. Iran had backed and was effectively leading the shiia militia which was taking on (sunni) isis. IE: we needed them at the time. Or certainly used them. And my understanding is that in some areas we are apparently still dependent on Shiite militia to keep US troops from having to actively fight.
Iraq and Iran have a long bloody history. But the Shiites have been oppressed and under-represented in Iraq, which is an ongoing issue.
Personally I don't think we can fix this problem, but it is a huge dynamic. I don't know that I have the answer on what the right call long term is.
What we do know is that a strike on any Shiia alienates them all. So while this guy absolutely needed to be taken out and Iran pushed back on its heels, this will have long-term implications and all of our tampering in the Middle East.
Sanctions against Iran the other Shiites tolerated. But attacks against Shiite militia anywhere will trigger blood feuds.
One other thing: taking him out in Iraq with known and immediate intel is a lot more defensible than taking him out in Iran. My understanding is that he had been warned repeatedly not to leave Iran under penalty of death.
I am not in favor of taking out all their all installations, but maybe just have one mysteriously explodes so that they are reminded we can do it at will. Same for the little boat shadowing our carrier forces. They are in violation of international law with regards to their actions in the straits.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-03-20, 10:25
These nutmegs need American hatred to run their country so the people don't their leaders why they don't have food and running water. I'm convinced we will stay at some level of war from now because they will never stop poking the bear. They need war to lead and its all they know. I hate it, but its my perception.
PB
This war started when Iran assisted the resistance in Iraq. Hell, it started with Iranian forces in Lebanon in the 80s. Recently we had tankers hit, our high tech drone whacked, Saudi oil facilities attacked. Iran has been poking the bear for decades. We shot them in the head.
Iran never won a war, but never lost a negotiation!
-Trump
Do I regret the droning of Soleimani? Yes. He should have been killed by an IED.
I don't think it was drones, from reports of American helicopters in the area I am thinking Apache.
Averageman
01-03-20, 11:43
My Son gave me the heads up on this.
A Google search and I had no luck finding the original, but I did find this;
https://medium.com/@rsahthion/the-ny-times-knew-about-the-assasination-of-qassem-soleimani-a-full-day-before-the-strike-3e344cffd17b
This was a day before he died:
Moreover, hypersonics are a weaponized moral hazard for states with a taste for intervention, because they erase barriers to picking fights. Is an adversary building something that might be a weapons factory? Is there an individual in an unfriendly country who cannot be apprehended? What if the former commander of Iran’s Revolutionary Guards, Qassem Soleimani, visits Baghdad for a meeting and you know the address? The temptations to use hypersonic missiles will be many. — NYT, 1/2/2020, Hypersonic Missiles Are a Game Changer
Ahhh found it;
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/02/opinion/hypersonic-missiles.html
Sorry about that but this raises a heck of a question, did they get leaked information from inside our most secret agencies?
WTF is going on here, this is way, way beyond the capabilities of circumstance.
I’ve read enough of your posts in this thread and in others to have positivity ID’d you as a moron.
Made me laugh out loud.
So true.
I don't think it was drones, from reports of American helicopters in the area I am thinking Apache.
Multiple witnesses are confirming Apaches launched strike.
The_War_Wagon
01-03-20, 12:01
Did the NY Times try and warn Soleimani?
Can we bomb them next? :rolleyes:
My understanding is most Iraqis (Sunni's) are unhappy with Iran's meddling and have no love for Iran,
Point of clarity: Iraq is mostly Shiia. This fact has always given Iran influence in Iraq and gives Iran a means and motive to train, arm, and equip the assholes my friends and I fought there.
Perish in fire, pig.
These nutmegs need American hatred to run their country so the people don't their leaders why they don't have food and running water. I'm convinced we will stay at some level of war from now because they will never stop poking the bear. They need war to lead and its all they know. I hate it, but its my perception.
PB
Most Iranians don't 'hate' America. The government/theocracy 'hates' America. Most Iranians just don't want to end up dead or in prison. Older Iranians remember pre-revolutionary days and how vibrant the country was. Just like Lebanon was. Just like Afghanistan was. Just like Somalia was. There's a pattern, and it ain't the average citizen.
This booger-eater deserved the dirt nap. Eff Iran.
If the USA plays this smart, and the Iranians don't shock us all by popping off a nuke.
In 5 years Iran will have an embassy in DC and Jerusalem.
Locally, gas went up 20 cent a gallon at the pump.
Locally, gas went up 20 cent a gallon at the pump.
No reason for that the USA exports gas today.
Adrenaline_6
01-03-20, 13:00
Locally, gas went up 20 cent a gallon at the pump.
Wow. Some owners have used the crisis as a weak excuse to jack prices and rip off the public.
Wow. Some owners have used the crisis as a weak excuse to jack prices and rip off the public.
It's due to crude oil price going up, I think I heard $2 a barrel. Either way, the gas producing/selling sector is reacting to the event.
Don't forget that you can block post from people that are annoying. Less pyling on and less interaction makes for a bit more enjoyment. Take a weeks vacation from the aggravation.
That doesn't work for me - the notification that they posted but you aren't seeing it because you blocked them nearly always piques my interest - kind of like when I was a kid and peeked at the Christmas presents.
What hole have you buried your head in? Other countries/ other kingdoms/ fiefdoms/ clans/ etc have been meddling in the others affairs since the beginning because it is a benefit to do so. To think that the other ones wouldn't do the same to yours is pure ignorance or naivety.
I think we need to recognize that our foreign policy has often been what is expedient at the time with little respect for the long term, both for ourselves, and the nations/people we are exploiting, I don't call that head in the sand.
That being said, in this case, I'm okay with whack-a-mole and give the TRump administration due credit, although I'm not convinced Obama, for example, wouldn't have done the same.
Is there any good reason not to just pull out of Iraq completely, embassy an all and say good riddance?
Point of clarity: Iraq is mostly Shiia. This fact has always given Iran influence in Iraq and gives Iran a means and motive to train, arm, and equip the assholes my friends and I fought there.
Perish in fire, pig.
Thanx for the clarification. I do get my factions confused as to who is the majority and or aligned with Iran and who is the minority and or not aligned with Iran. What a cluster...
I think we need to recognize that our foreign policy has often been what is expedient at the time with little respect for the long term, both for ourselves, and the nations/people we are exploiting, I don't call that head in the sand.
I think this is largely true. Or, we think "ah, this is going to go this way," assuming we know what the other actors are going to do, then they do something else entirely. Plus travelling first class down the Road of Good Intentions.
Thanx for the clarification. I do get my factions confused as to who is the majority and or aligned with Iran and who is the minority and or not aligned with Iran. What a cluster...
No worries. Its easy to mix up, especially given the governments.
Iraq: where its always Sunni, but it smells like Shiite.
Despite my anti-war sentiments, and belief that we did not need to invade Iraq, I don’t think I’ll ever shake the feeling that I never really got to finish there.
So will being a little bitch abroad.
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This ^^ in response to, "Cheerleading violence abroad will eventually come back on all of us, here at home."
sundance435
01-03-20, 13:57
Locally, gas went up 20 cent a gallon at the pump.
That's jpure profiteering. Delivered and very-near term gasoline prices do not move that quickly, absent an actual disruption in supply. I'd call them out on it in the local paper or social media.
I think we need to recognize that our foreign policy has often been what is expedient at the time with little respect for the long term, both for ourselves, and the nations/people we are exploiting, I don't call that head in the sand.
That being said, in this case, I'm okay with whack-a-mole and give the TRump administration due credit, although I'm not convinced Obama, for example, wouldn't have done the same.
Totally agree on the first part - our foreign policy, in all but a few cases, is based on the expedient at the expense of the middle and long term. I don't agree that Obama would've done the same, considering his foreign policy was "Don't do stupid shit", and they failed to achieve even that.
Edited to add: Trump clearly telegraphed to the regime where he was at with their chicanery when he called off the air strikes moments before they were to happen. The regime had a chance to de escalate and they did the opposite and messed with the Saudis for good measure, which is clearly a red line for us (like it or not). I don't know what the long-term repercussions will be, but I finally feel like we're a step ahead of the Iranians for once and not merely being reactionary.
No worries. Its easy to mix up, especially given the governments.
Iraq: where its always Sunni, but it smells like Shiite.
Despite my anti-war sentiments, and belief that we did not need to invade Iraq, I don’t think I’ll ever shake the feeling that I never really got to finish there.
How could you? It's also terribly frustrating to know if just leaving is the right thing to do (which leaves us all, especially those who went to fight) feeling like it was then all for nothing, or staying and trying to not have it be a total waste of life and $.
I vacillate back and forth myself on that one, and have some very strong feelings towards those who put us there to begin with.
I can't even fathom how much greater success we'd have had in Afgan had we simply stayed focused on that theater unless forced to open another one.
I always thought we'd learned a lot from Nam. Militarily we did to be sure, politically? Does not appear they learned a f-ing thing.
WMD's indeed...
How could you? It's also terribly frustrating to know if just leaving is the right thing to do (which leaves us all, especially those who went to fight) feeling like it was then all for nothing, or staying and trying to not have it be a total waste of life and $.
I vacillate back and forth myself on that one, and have some very strong feelings towards those who put us there to begin with.
I can't even fathom how much greater success we'd have had in Afgan had we simply stayed focused on that theater unless forced to open another one.
I always thought we'd learned a lot from Nam. Militarily we did to be sure, politically? Does not appear they learned a f-ing thing.
WMD's indeed...
I don’t disagree with the sentiments about AFG, but from my understanding we did uncover quite a bit of WMD activity, it’s just often downplayed because there weren’t hundreds of ICBMs sitting on launch pads.
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I don’t disagree with the sentiments about AFG, but from my understanding we did uncover quite a bit of WMD activity, it’s just often downplayed because there weren’t hundreds of ICBMs sitting on launch pads.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Should have invaded Pakistan in 2002, instead.
I don’t disagree with the sentiments about AFG, but from my understanding we did uncover quite a bit of WMD activity, it’s just often downplayed because there weren’t hundreds of ICBMs sitting on launch pads.
I guess my response to that is who does not have WMD's in that region? It does not surprise me they found something per se, but it appears it was still an excuse used to open another theater by a group of neocons who were Bush Jr puppet masters vs legit concern there was a true need to invade to save us from WMDs. The other problem is, what's legit and what comes from the powers that be as propped up intel to justify it is probably not known to that many people but I have little faith we know the difference, or at least I don't.
Secondarily, assuming a legit threat, ignoring the advice of your experienced people like Shinseki as to how to do it right in favor of Rumsfeld deciding he knew better, was doubly bad.
So had we at least followed the advice of our own war planners who didn't think it was a good idea, which was to go with not just enough people to take out the Iraqi mil, but also stabilize the place after, it likely would not have developed into the cluster is was/is.
Rant off.
platoonDaddy
01-03-20, 14:43
Should have invaded Pakistan in 2002, instead.
AMEN! We should have kept moving into western pakistan.
This can all be summed by by saying the General was Trumpetized and now they have revealed who just took his place. Get the drone back, reload/refuel and stand by.
The United States has been interfering in Iran’s internal affairs since the overthrow of Mosaddegh in 1953. We then proceeded to fund and arm a tyrant who terrorized and brutalized his own population, which in turn generated the Islamic Revolution.
Our policies and actions were all counter-productive and Unconstitutional.
Our undeclared Middle Eastern wars and military actions were, and are, all Unconstitutional, illegal, and immoral.
Let us hear nothing more of our Founding Fathers or the Law of the Land that they bequeathed us, and make no more pretense of our devotion to the Constitution or the Rule of Law, when we do not abide by it or respect it, ourselves.
The same violence our leaders use overseas with our acquiescence will one day be used on all of us, as well.
“Every ambitious would-be empire, clarions it abroad that she is conquering the world to bring it peace, security and freedom, and it is sacrificing her sons only for the most noble and humanitarian purposes. That is a lie; and it is an ancient lie, yet generations still rise and believe it.”
- Henry David Thoreau
Actually, it goes back quite a bit further than Mosaddegh in 1953. It goes back to WWI as a matter of fact. You're responding to one of the few people who have been directly shot at by Iranian military forces under their own flag, rather than by proxy (MAGTF 2-88). I am very well versed in the full history and feel I have a unique perspective on the matter.
Had we just allowed Soleimani to run around planning and carrying out an attack on our embassy, we would have exactly what you're talking about, an indisputable act of war that would compel Congress to declare war on Iran. Is that what you want? Do you want our troops patrolling the streets of Tehran for the next 10, 20, 30 years?
I have little time or patience for hand wringers on the matter. Our President stepped up to the plate and took out the trash. If you aren't willing to declare all-out war on Iran, then support this action.
Yessss let’s bang that “terrorism” drum. I’m so thankful we re-upped the PATRIOT Act too.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200103/441d7cb85f8a58a19c04c089d7bdfde6.jpg
[emoji849]
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Yessss let’s bang that “terrorism” drum. I’m so thankful we re-upped the PATRIOT Act too.
[emoji849]
Iran has been delivering dead Americans since 1979. Some people just dont get it.
Yessss let’s bang that “terrorism” drum. I’m so thankful we re-upped the PATRIOT Act too
[emoji849]
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Doesn't he have a political campaign to spy on? :rolleyes:
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-03-20, 16:14
POOOOOOFFFFFffff, and like that, everyones 2020 predictions blew up like an Iranian terrorist....
Coal Dragger
01-03-20, 16:26
One amusing side effect that will benefit Trump is his opponents are critical of killing a terrorist. That will play well in the election, he can point out that Democrats want to protect terrorists that murder Americans.
One amusing side effect that will benefit Trump is his opponents are critical of killing a terrorist. That will play well in the election, he can point out that Democrats want to protect terrorists that murder Americans.
ALL the Democrat candidates are soft on terrorism. They WANT Souleiman and other like him operating freely in the world. They want to give them pallets of cash so they can finance the efforts to eradicate Israel and strengthen the regimes that hate America.
That's how I'd describe them every day.
Now the Dems are crying gas in going up. I had rather pay for gas than body bags for our guys. Bottom line there is a saying in the South called "He needed killing" and Trump is THE one to do what needs to be done and he did it. Will be interesting to see who is gonna try something next.
ALL the Democrat candidates are soft on terrorism. They WANT Souleiman and other like him operating freely in the world. They want to give them pallets of cash so they can finance the efforts to eradicate Israel and strengthen the regimes that hate America.
That's how I'd describe them every day.
The entire Middle East is a waste of American resources.
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The entire Middle East is a waste of American resources.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Absolutely agree, 100%. But these are the politics we have, not the ones we wish we had. :(
One amusing side effect that will benefit Trump is his opponents are critical of killing a terrorist. That will play well in the election, he can point out that Democrats want to protect terrorists that murder Americans.
Well the ComDems are complaining that they should have been notified before the strike. Yeah right, Pelosi and Shifty Schiff leak more than a screen door on a submarine.
This war started when Iran assisted the resistance in Iraq. Hell, it started with Iranian forces in Lebanon in the 80s. Recently we had tankers hit, our high tech drone whacked, Saudi oil facilities attacked. Iran has been poking the bear for decades. We shot them in the head.
-Trump
Do I regret the droning of Soleimani? Yes. He should have been killed by an IED.
An EFP specifically.
BTW, Iraq is majority Shia if I'm not mistaken (like 2/3 Shia).
Haha, another airstrike just took out Iranian paramilitary leaders in north bagdad trying to flee the city they hit 2 cars believed to be high ranking Iranians.
#BREAKING, Shibl al-Zaydi, leader in the #PMU has been confirmed dead after the US conducted another air strike targeting his convoy in #Taji. Two vehicles hit. Developing.
Haha, another airstrike just took out Iranian back paramilitary leaders in north bagdad trying to flee the city they hit 2 cars believed to be high ranking Iranians.
#BREAKING, Shibl al-Zaydi, leader in the #PMU has been confirmed dead after the US conducted another air strike targeting his convoy in #Taji. Two vehicles hit. Developing.
Pink mist for all!
Chit is getting real
The entire Middle East is a waste of American resources.
Hard to find anyone who does not agree in principle. What the hell to do about it seems to be the major debate. Obviously there's key players who benefit from our being there and it makes some very wealthy to boot. We'd have to have a total restructuring in our national goals, policies, decide we are done with being the world police.
I don't see it happening sadly. It seems we are still working from cold war doctrine. We need a new master plan.
One could really go down a rabbit hole of conspiracy stuff if one were so inclined.
Trump is daring Iran to do something stupid so we can justify hitting them at home. I honestly think we would basically wipe out there military more or less in a day if we wanted to.
NYT Floated Soleimani Assassination Scenario In Baghdad Hours Before Strike...
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/02/opinion/hypersonic-missiles.html
Moreover, hypersonics are a weaponized moral hazard for states with a taste for intervention, because they erase barriers to picking fights. Is an adversary building something that might be a weapons factory? Is there an individual in an unfriendly country who cannot be apprehended? What if the former commander of Iran’s Revolutionary Guards, Qassim Suleimani, visits Baghdad for a meeting and you know the address? The temptations to use hypersonic missiles will be many.
Actually, it goes back quite a bit further than Mosaddegh in 1953. It goes back to WWI as a matter of fact. You're responding to one of the few people who have been directly shot at by Iranian military forces under their own flag, rather than by proxy (MAGTF 2-88). I am very well versed in the full history and feel I have a unique perspective on the matter.
Had we just allowed Soleimani to run around planning and carrying out an attack on our embassy, we would have exactly what you're talking about, an indisputable act of war that would compel Congress to declare war on Iran. Is that what you want? Do you want our troops patrolling the streets of Tehran for the next 10, 20, 30 years?
I have little time or patience for hand wringers on the matter. Our President stepped up to the plate and took out the trash. If you aren't willing to declare all-out war on Iran, then support this action.
Were you in the group who choppered out to the oil platform and cleared it, then set demo charges?
MontanaMarine
01-03-20, 18:29
The history of humanity has been universally harsh to peoples who yield to their enemies.
Trump is making good choices.
The history of humanity has been universally harsh to peoples who yield to their enemies.
Trump is making good choices.
To quote Gust Avrakotos from Charlie Wilsons War, The Zen master says, “We'll see.”
Haha, another airstrike just took out Iranian paramilitary leaders in north bagdad trying to flee the city they hit 2 cars believed to be high ranking Iranians.
#BREAKING, Shibl al-Zaydi, leader in the #PMU has been confirmed dead after the US conducted another air strike targeting his convoy in #Taji. Two vehicles hit. Developing.
My burning question is why are all these Iranian thugs are showing up in Bagdad? Are they trying to convince the Iraqis to throw the great satan infidel Americans out? recruiting martyrs?
Interesting info coming out.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/01/breaking-report-before-u-s-drone-strike-fears-soleimani-was-in-iraq-to-lead-coup-arrest-president-salih-and-takeover-u-s-embassy/
Breaking Report: Before U.S. Drone Strike, Fears Soleimani Was in Iraq to Lead Coup, Arrest President Salih and Takeover U.S. Embassy
Avatar by Kristinn Taylor January 2, 2020
1.9KShare 253Tweet Email
A report by Al Hurra reporter Steven Nabil shows that sources close to the Iraqi government said to him hours before the U.S. attack that killed Iran Quds Force leader Major General Qassem Soleimani as he arrived at the Baghdad airport–reportedly from Syria–that there were fears in the Iraqi government that Soleimani was going to lead a coup and overthrow the government, arrest President Barham Salih and takeover the U.S. embassy.
Qassem Soleimani, before and after.
What if the strikes were meant to stop a plan, this morning I was hearing from trusted sources close to the government leadership that they were worried of an Iranian backed plan by the Militias and Sulaimani to seize power and arrest the president and declare a new Iraqi norm. pic.twitter.com/BDt6Hkp0uF
— Steven nabil (@thestevennabil) January 3, 2020
One since deleted translation read, “Because Iranian militias and leaders are present, intending a coup and the elimination of important governmental, military and party figures. At the head of the list is Barham Salih, under the charge of working for America. Their plan is to withdraw all their military units and declare a people’s government on this basis while they control the branches of government and give a deadline for the American embassy to withdraw its employees.”
Another since deleted translation reads, “The image says: The militias and the Iranian leaders want to overthrow and kill Iraqi big officials and parties leaders, and military leader ms. Barham Salih is on the top of the list. Their plan is to seize power in Iraq, giving the U.S embassy a time-limit to withdraw”
Hopefully this translation will stay up, “The source say:Iran and its agents in Iraq are planing to perform cope against Iraqi gov.and they will assassinate and arrest the president and gov.members and will attack usa forces.”
The source say:Iran and its agents in Iraq are planing to perform cope against Iraqi gov.and they will assassinate and arrest the president and gov.members and will attack usa forces.
— Jihad H.Ali (@JihadHAli4) January 3, 2020
Observers connected the dots:
Qasem Soleimani – IRGC -Dead
Abu Mahdi Mohandes – PMF -Dead
Hadi Ameri – Badr Org -Arested
Qais Khazali – Asaib Ahl al Haq -Arrested
With American help, government of Iraq is eliminating threats to its power. The militia has official recognition. So this is a coup d'etat.
— Ejder Memis (@_sHx_) January 3, 2020
Kassem Suleimani, Abu Mahdi Al-Muhandis were killed by American strike and American forces have arrested the terrorist Qais Al-Khazali and Hadi Al-Amiri in Baghdad. Thank u president Trump for stopping iran expansion project #mariamaaloof
— Maria Maaloof (@bilarakib) January 3, 2020
We’ll know more tomorrow most likely, but this might explain why President Trump executed such a high stakes attack: To ward off an Iranian coup in Iraq.
Are we dropping JDAMs on the ayatollah yet? No?
Pity.
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My burning question is why are all these Iranian thugs are showing up in Bagdad? Are they trying to convince the Iraqis to throw the great satan infidel Americans out? recruiting martyrs?
My question exactly.
Ready.Fire.Aim
01-03-20, 21:11
Background info on SHIBL MUHSIN ‘UBAYD AL-ZAYDI (AL-ZAYDI).
He was a money-man for Quds Force and Hizbollah.
60197
https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/sm546
Outlander Systems
01-03-20, 21:18
It’s not new. The entirety of OIF involved Iranian elements playing **** **** games inside the Iraq border.
My burning question is why are all these Iranian thugs are showing up in Bagdad? Are they trying to convince the Iraqis to throw the great satan infidel Americans out? recruiting martyrs?
Ready.Fire.Aim
01-03-20, 21:19
Interesting info coming out.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/01/breaking-report-before-u-s-drone-strike-fears-soleimani-was-in-iraq-to-lead-coup-arrest-president-salih-and-takeover-u-s-embassy/
Breaking Report: Before U.S. Drone Strike, Fears Soleimani Was in Iraq to Lead Coup, Arrest President Salih and Takeover U.S. Embassy
Avatar by Kristinn Taylor January 2, 2020
1.9KShare 253Tweet Email
A report by Al Hurra reporter Steven Nabil shows that sources close to the Iraqi government said to him hours before the U.S. attack that killed Iran Quds Force leader Major General Qassem Soleimani as he arrived at the Baghdad airport–reportedly from Syria–that there were fears in the Iraqi government that Soleimani was going to lead a coup and overthrow the government, arrest President Barham Salih and takeover the U.S. embassy.
Qassem Soleimani, before and after.
What if the strikes were meant to stop a plan, this morning I was hearing from trusted sources close to the government leadership that they were worried of an Iranian backed plan by the Militias and Sulaimani to seize power and arrest the president and declare a new Iraqi norm. pic.twitter.com/BDt6Hkp0uF
— Steven nabil (@thestevennabil) January 3, 2020
One since deleted translation read, “Because Iranian militias and leaders are present, intending a coup and the elimination of important governmental, military and party figures. At the head of the list is Barham Salih, under the charge of working for America. Their plan is to withdraw all their military units and declare a people’s government on this basis while they control the branches of government and give a deadline for the American embassy to withdraw its employees.”
Another since deleted translation reads, “The image says: The militias and the Iranian leaders want to overthrow and kill Iraqi big officials and parties leaders, and military leader ms. Barham Salih is on the top of the list. Their plan is to seize power in Iraq, giving the U.S embassy a time-limit to withdraw”
Hopefully this translation will stay up, “The source say:Iran and its agents in Iraq are planing to perform cope against Iraqi gov.and they will assassinate and arrest the president and gov.members and will attack usa forces.”
The source say:Iran and its agents in Iraq are planing to perform cope against Iraqi gov.and they will assassinate and arrest the president and gov.members and will attack usa forces.
— Jihad H.Ali (@JihadHAli4) January 3, 2020
Observers connected the dots:
Qasem Soleimani – IRGC -Dead
Abu Mahdi Mohandes – PMF -Dead
Hadi Ameri – Badr Org -Arested
Qais Khazali – Asaib Ahl al Haq -Arrested
With American help, government of Iraq is eliminating threats to its power. The militia has official recognition. So this is a coup d'etat.
— Ejder Memis (@_sHx_) January 3, 2020
Kassem Suleimani, Abu Mahdi Al-Muhandis were killed by American strike and American forces have arrested the terrorist Qais Al-Khazali and Hadi Al-Amiri in Baghdad. Thank u president Trump for stopping iran expansion project #mariamaaloof
— Maria Maaloof (@bilarakib) January 3, 2020
We’ll know more tomorrow most likely, but this might explain why President Trump executed such a high stakes attack: To ward off an Iranian coup in Iraq.
Perhaps the coup was “ bait” to draw the Iranians in and take them out.
Much like the Turkish coup a few years ago, took out all anti-govt opposition during suppression of the “ coup”.
Averageman
01-03-20, 21:27
NYT Floated Soleimani Assassination Scenario In Baghdad Hours Before Strike...
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/02/opinion/hypersonic-missiles.html
No, they were warning him.
Do you believe if the NY Times knew about this that Pelosi and Schumer didn't? If they didnt would be the only time the Democratic Party and the Times didn't share classified information.
MontanaMarine
01-03-20, 22:04
Iran's leaders feel cocky. They were never properly dealt with after the stunt they pulled in 1979.
There is a long overdue price that is going to be paid.
Straight Shooter
01-03-20, 22:29
No, they were warning him.
Do you believe if the NY Times knew about this that Pelosi and Schumer didn't? If they didnt would be the only time the Democratic Party and the Times didn't share classified information.
Ill say this openly right now. The democrat party are BIGGER enemies to America and true freedom than ANYONE else, Iran, China, Russia..ANYBODY.
They are a cancer. A Stage 4 cancer that is on the brink of eating America & the Constitution alive. The ENTIRE leadership should be hung by their necks.
Id take a Russian over those goblins any day and twice on Sunday.
Im so pissed at those fools defending our enemies..well I had to vent.
daddyusmaximus
01-03-20, 22:31
https://i.imgur.com/gXpkefD.jpg
Mauser KAR98K
01-03-20, 22:39
No reason for that the USA exports gas today.
This. I haul crude oil here in North Dakota and we have been slow the last two months.
Ill say this openly right now. The democrat party are BIGGER enemies to America and true freedom than ANYONE else, Iran, China, Russia..ANYBODY.
They are a cancer. A Stage 4 cancer that is on the brink of eating America & the Constitution alive. The ENTIRE leadership should be hung by their necks.
Id take a Russian over those goblins any day and twice on Sunday.
Im so pissed at those fools defending our enemies..well I had to vent.
And the Dems are complaining Trump didn't tell them first. Yeah, tell Omar and see what happens.
https://i.imgur.com/gXpkefD.jpg
Ha! and it's about FN time.
My burning question is why are all these Iranian thugs are showing up in Bagdad? Are they trying to convince the Iraqis to throw the great satan infidel Americans out? recruiting martyrs?Same old "Its complicated" "enemy of my enemy" stuff that has made the ME a mess for a long time.
ISIS was sunni. Most of Iraq population is Shiite, a somewhat oppressed majority. Iran is Shiite, and helps other Shiites.
We allowed/encouraged Iran to back/lead Shiite militias to fight ISIS in Iraq and Syria.
Now ISIS is largely gone as a threat, in Iraq anyway. So these militias redirect focus to the Sunni Iraq leadership. And us, as we support/enable the minority Iraqi leadership.
That's my simplified understanding, as explained a while back by folks who's job it is to know these things.
The coup threat mentioned in prior posts makes sense as well. Well within Iran's aspirations and operating methods.
My burning question is why are all these Iranian thugs are showing up in Bagdad? Are they trying to convince the Iraqis to throw the great satan infidel Americans out? recruiting martyrs?
My burning question is why are the infidels there in the first place? What's wrong with saying "we're done here" and leaving, including the embassy?
Or is Trump just getting bad advice from the M.I.C. who are getting rich from maintaining an American presence?
Business_Casual
01-04-20, 06:27
My burning question is why are the infidels there in the first place? What's wrong with saying "we're done here" and leaving, including the embassy?
Or is Trump just getting bad advice from the M.I.C. who are getting rich from maintaining an American presence?
Think of it this way, with the Russians in Syria and the Iranians giving North Korea nuke technology, where else could we keep a hand in the region but not build permanent facilities in Saudi or Israel?
Ill say this openly right now. The democrat party are BIGGER enemies to America and true freedom than ANYONE else, Iran, China, Russia..ANYBODY.
They are a cancer. A Stage 4 cancer that is on the brink of eating America & the Constitution alive. The ENTIRE leadership should be hung by their necks.
Id take a Russian over those goblins any day and twice on Sunday.
Im so pissed at those fools defending our enemies..well I had to vent.
1. Suleimani was responsible for killing hundreds of Americans.
2. Suleimani was planning to kill more Americans.
3. The ComDems in Congress say Suleimani should not have been killed.
Everyone one of the ComDems should be tried for treason for what they have done to our country.
It has been said that for evil men to accomplish their purpose it is only necessary that good men should do nothing.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-04-20, 09:15
And the Dems are complaining Trump didn't tell them first. Yeah, tell Omar and see what happens.
It would be interesting to actually notify the Dems about a fictional attack that is just too juicy for them to not leak, and then see how long it takes them to break operational security and leak about it.
1. Suleimani was responsible for killing hundreds of Americans.
2. Suleimani was planning to kill more Americans.
3. The ComDems in Congress say Suleimani should not have been killed.
Everyone one of the ComDems should be tried for treason for what they have done to our country.
It is odd to compare and contrast the 'crimes' of impeachment with the Dems wailing about whacking this guy.
We send one missile to kill a guy that was a true enemy of the US and the left worries about the repercussions and the legality- but when it comes to sending 100X missiles to kill Russians, they can't send them fast enough.... they have press conferences where they talk about both subjects, and they don't see how bat crap crazy they are.
Think of it this way, with the Russians in Syria and the Iranians giving North Korea nuke technology, where else could we keep a hand in the region but not build permanent facilities in Saudi or Israel?
Not to mention the last time we kind of left ISIS sprung up.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Not to mention the last time we kind of left ISIS sprung up.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
And why does that matter to us?
The drug cartels killed 40,000 people just in Mexico in 2019 and that doesn't matter enough to send troops to invade Mexico, and establish a military presents in Mexico.
Lets be clear on this.
He wasn't assassinated as he was not elected.
He wasn't traumatized based on the body parts I have seen.
But he was for sure TRUMPETIZED ! ! ! !
My youngest son is home from West Point and we have been discussing all of this. He is trying to fathom why we are in all these places worldwide. He's 20 years old. It's complicated. We go to these places - there are problems. We leave these places - there are problems. Every action or lack of action creates something, either good or bad.
He brings this up because one of his USMA instructors is an 1SG with a CIB, Pathfinder, Master Parachutist, Air Assault, etc. The guy has 8 overseas bars on his sleeve and he is teaching these cadets about combat and how the US has interacted with the rest of the world.
I have no easy answer to all of this except that in the big picture world of geopolitical enemies and allies, you're either a player or you sit on the sidelines and others dictate how things go in the world. For me it's justification enough to do what we do.
My youngest son is home from West Point and we have been discussing all of this. He is trying to fathom why we are in all these places worldwide. He's 20 years old. It's complicated. We go to these places - there are problems. We leave these places - there are problems. Every action or lack of action creates something, either good or bad.
He brings this up because one of his USMA instructors is an 1SG with a CIB, Pathfinder, Master Parachutist, Air Assault, etc. The guy has 8 overseas bars on his sleeve and he is teaching these cadets about combat and how the US has interacted with the rest of the world.
I have no easy answer to all of this except that in the big picture world of geopolitical enemies and allies, you're either a player or you sit on the sidelines and others dictate how things go in the world. For me it's justification enough to do what we do.
What about Somalia? I ask this only because I know you were there. Was there justification and was it worth it?
I know the ME is different. I’m not advocating a isolationist position. Just trying to figure out the strategic purpose.
Why are we sitting on the sidelines with Mexico when the cartels have killed 40,000 people in 2019 and there citizens are invading our country?
Then there’s Vietnam...
I’m 51 years old and have done a considerable amount of study from different angles on all things Vietnam. My wife is also from Vietnam and I’ve been there numerous times. Including spending 3 weeks touring battle sights with a returning veterans group for a research project. There were 12 vets that all fought together in the 4th Infantry Division. Even though most of them volunteered (some did multiple tours) in hind sight none of them thought we had any business there. They were all proud of their service but they all thought the government had misled Americans and a lot of people died for nothing. My father included.
Of course others think otherwise and I still don’t know one way or the other definitively.
What about Somalia? I ask this only because I know you were there. Was there justification and was it worth it?
I know the ME is different. I’m not advocating a isolationist position. Just trying to figure out the strategic purpose.
Why are we sitting on the sidelines with Mexico when the cartels have killed 40,000 people in 2019 and there citizens are invading our country?
Hindsight is 20/20. It starts out as humanitarian relief in an area ravaged by famine, and then mission creep sets in and you end up using the military to combat the criminal warlord stealing food and supplies from the UN agencies. I was a soldier focused on mission requirements at the tactical level, not geopolitical strategic issues.
Every military excursion we have been involved with since Korea you could agree or disagree with. We don't live in a perfect world.
Then there’s Vietnam...
I’m 51 years old and have done a considerable amount of study from different angles on all things Vietnam. My wife is also from Vietnam and I’ve been there numerous times. Including spending 3 weeks touring battle sights with a returning veterans group for a research project. There were 12 vets that all fought together in the 4th Infantry Division. Even though most of them volunteered (some did multiple tours) in hind sight none of them thought we had any business there. They were all proud of their service but they all thought the government had misled Americans and a lot of people died for nothing. My father included.
Of course others think otherwise and I still don’t know one way or the other definitively.
What does she think about it? I'm always fascinated by the POV of those from Vietnam. I'm told they're quite friendly to 'Muricans who visit. Considering we were just one a long list of countries who tried to dictate their future, we likely took that awful war more personally then they did.
SeriousStudent
01-04-20, 13:10
https://i.imgur.com/PaIofrn.jpg
Every military excursion we have been involved with since Korea you could agree or disagree with. We don't live in a perfect world.
Spot on.
Hindsight is 20/20. It starts out as humanitarian relief in an area ravaged by famine, and then mission creep sets in and you end up using the military to combat the criminal warlord stealing food and supplies from the UN agencies. I was a soldier focused on mission requirements at the tactical level, not geopolitical strategic issues.
Every military excursion we have been involved with since Korea you could agree or disagree with. We don't live in a perfect world.
And not one of them seems to have really improved anything for the better for us in the USA.
The irony.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
And not one of them seems to have really improved anything for the better for us in the USA.
The irony.
Domestically, probably not, but the military gains a lot of knowledge from real world combat and improves or creates weaponry. As a new pilot fresh out of flight and air frame schools, my first real flight assignment in the Army was at Fort Huachuca. They were testing classified radar jamming gear in different air frames and I was flying the OH-6 with this equipment from Libby AAF at Huachuca to Laguna AAF at Yuma Proving Grounds. There I would do different flight patterns to test effectiveness of this equipment. Keep in mind this was in early 1983, about two months before I was recruited by TF 158 at Fort Campbell.
Having been involved in plenty of foreign operations, there was value in all of them which provided increased knowledge of our equipment limitations, but also vast knowledge of our geopolitical enemy's equipment. Sometime look up Operation Mount Hope III. I was involved with the logistics of that mission.
What does she think about it? I'm always fascinated by the POV of those from Vietnam. I'm told they're quite friendly to 'Muricans who visit. Considering we were just one a long list of countries who tried to dictate their future, we likely took that awful war more personally then they did.
85% of the population was born after 1975 so most people simply don't care. Vietnam was not anti-American before, during, or after the war. They were anti colonial, meaning they wanted and fought for independence. Vietnamese also don't dwell in the past. My wife was born in 1970 and she never cared about anything related to the war period. Her parents worked at the Haiphong Port in north Vietnam during the war. They all had bomb shelters and were bombed often. My mother-in-law rode her bicycle around dead bodies to and from work. They moved to Saigon in 1980 and my wife came to the U.S in 1991. For them the Vietnam war was just a thin slice of their history that has little significance to them.
The Bataan Amphibious Ready Group that consists of USS Bataan (LHD-5), amphibious transport dock USS New York (LPD-21) and dock landing ship USS Oak Hill (LSD-51) and the 26th MEU are on the way to join the 82nd.
https://news.usni.org/2020/01/03/uss-bataan-marines-26th-meu-heading-to-middle-east-amid-tensions-with-iran
Hindsight is 20/20. It starts out as humanitarian relief in an area ravaged by famine, and then mission creep sets in and you end up using the military to combat the criminal warlord stealing food and supplies from the UN agencies. I was a soldier focused on mission requirements at the tactical level, not geopolitical strategic issues.
Every military excursion we have been involved with since Korea you could agree or disagree with. We don't live in a perfect world.
Thanks for the reply. I didn't bring that up to touch a nerve. I really respect your experience and value your perspective, and appreciate your willingness to share it.
85% of the population was born after 1975 so most people simply don't care. Vietnam was not anti-American before, during, or after the war. They were anti colonial, meaning they wanted and fought for independence. Vietnamese also don't dwell in the past. My wife was born in 1970 and she never cared about anything related to the war period. Her parents worked at the Haiphong Port in north Vietnam during the war. They all had bomb shelters and were bombed often. My mother-in-law rode her bicycle around dead bodies to and from work. They moved to Saigon in 1980 and my wife came to the U.S in 1991. For them the Vietnam war was just a thin slice of their history that has little significance to them.
Amazing that conflict changed a mega country like the US forever and for Vietnam, a speed bump. The arrogance our "leaders" showed still blows my mind, albeit I understand it was based on Cold War Doctrine which meant preventing the spread of communism where ever possible.
As i said in a post a few pages back, we learned a ton militarily to be sure, but as far as politicians learning anything, not so much it seems. Just put this related thread up:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?219982-The-Pentagon-Papers-Secrets-lies-and-leaks
Thanks for the reply. I didn't bring that up to touch a nerve. I really respect your experience and value your perspective, and appreciate your willingness to share it.
No offense taken whatsoever. My nerves are in good shape.....;)
Why are we sitting on the sidelines with Mexico when the cartels have killed 40,000 people in 2019 and there citizens are invading our country?
Hindsight is 20/20. It starts out as humanitarian relief in an area ravaged by famine, and then mission creep sets in and you end up using the military to combat the criminal warlord stealing food and supplies from the UN agencies.
This is what has always concerned/baffled me about U.S. foreign policy. As I'm not really wanting to get into theological things, suffice to say that I believe there is a reason American is able to project power. To me, the potential to do good things for the downtrodden should be a major consideration in our foreign policy.
Unfortunately that doesn't often seem to be the case, and in the rare circumstances where it is, we seem to be ineffective in reaching the end goal. Why is that?
OH58D, what would have brought us to a good end state in Somalia?
The Bataan Amphibious Ready Group that consists of USS Bataan (LHD-5), amphibious transport dock USS New York (LPD-21) and dock landing ship USS Oak Hill (LSD-51) and the 26th MEU are on the way to join the 82nd.
https://news.usni.org/2020/01/03/uss-bataan-marines-26th-meu-heading-to-middle-east-amid-tensions-with-iranSo this is pretty significant as they had just arrived at Morocco for a big joint exercise. And in December had been making a big deal that this was a pivot from the middle East and they were going to be doing other things around the Atlantic and Balkans.
The big joint exercises are planned months out, so to cancel at the last minute to me is very significant.
So full brigade of paratroopers on standby in Kuwait and now another 2400 Marines in landing ships and instant harbor setup. And the 173rd keeps a BN of paras on hot standby not much further away. So that's another 1k paratroopers.
It's a pretty strong message.
This is what has always concerned/baffled me about U.S. foreign policy. As I'm not really wanting to get into theological things, suffice to say that I believe there is a reason American is able to project power. To me, the potential to do good things for the downtrodden should be a major consideration in our foreign policy.
Unfortunately that doesn't often seem to be the case, and in the rare circumstances where it is, we seem to be ineffective in reaching the end goal. Why is that?
OH58D, what would have brought us to a good end state in Somalia?
Not to answer for him but I doubt much could have brought about a good end state in Somalia. Over 26 years after Gothic Serpent went down it is still a shithole. IMHO it comes down to culture. Their culture isn't compatible with First World living and structured, stable, relatively non-corrupt, sustainable government (i.e. I mean a centralized, non-tribal one). Japan's and Germany's was; Vietnam/Iraq/Afghanistan not so much.
Ironically, the Persian culture (Iran) could likely be a candidate for such governance.
This is what has always concerned/baffled me about U.S. foreign policy. As I'm not really wanting to get into theological things, suffice to say that I believe there is a reason American is able to project power. To me, the potential to do good things for the downtrodden should be a major consideration in our foreign policy.
Unfortunately that doesn't often seem to be the case, and in the rare circumstances where it is, we seem to be ineffective in reaching the end goal. Why is that?
OH58D, what would have brought us to a good end state in Somalia?
I get together for annual meetings with both of my former aviation units. A couple of years ago at a Night Stalker dinner, we looked at recent photos of Mogadishu and some of the places from the "Blackhawk Down" story. To be honest, it didn't look a whole lot different than 1993 with the exception of newer vehicles and power lines where there were none. In mission planning for night operations, pilots always look for power lines. Overall, the same poverty and rotten looking area. I have no interest in ever setting foot in that place again. I was 33 years old when all that went down.
To be honest, and based on a person now who will 60 next month, I don't think we could have turned that place into a functioning, prosperous society no matter what money we pumped into it. In the Bible it says that the Poor will be with you always. That is the case for the Horn of Africa.
This is what has always concerned/baffled me about U.S. foreign policy. As I'm not really wanting to get into theological things, suffice to say that I believe there is a reason American is able to project power. To me, the potential to do good things for the downtrodden should be a major consideration in our foreign policy.
Unfortunately that doesn't often seem to be the case, and in the rare circumstances where it is, we seem to be ineffective in reaching the end goal. Why is that?
OH58D, what would have brought us to a good end state in Somalia?
I'd say because we often go in without one to begin with. We seem to enter conflicts with no actual exit strategy in mind. That's my take anyway.
So this is pretty significant as they had just arrived at Morocco for a big joint exercise. And in December had been making a big deal that this was a pivot from the middle East and they were going to be doing other things around the Atlantic and Balkans.
The big joint exercises are planned months out, so to cancel at the last minute to me is very significant.
So full brigade of paratroopers on standby in Kuwait and now another 2400 Marines in landing ships and instant harbor setup.
It's a pretty strong message.
And that's really all it is, a message. 5K or so relatively lightly armed ground troops ain't there for the "heavy lifting". Let me know when armored divisions, entire USAF air wings, and USN CVN task forces start moving.
To be fair, the likely outcome of going hot with Iran will be high-tech out the wazoo, not as much ground-pounders. The grunts will likely be to reinforce already existing outposts and FOB's which Iranian proxies will no doubt go after. But Iran itself? You'll see just how well DoD $$$ has been spent.
And that's really all it is, a message. 5K or so relatively lightly armed ground troops ain't there for the "heavy lifting". Let me know when armored divisions, entire USAF air wings, and USN CVN task forces start moving.
To be fair, the likely outcome of going hot with Iran will be high-tech out the wazoo, not as much ground-pounders. The grunts will likely be to reinforce already existing outposts and FOB's which Iranian proxies will no doubt go after. But Iran itself? You'll see just how well DoD $$$ has been spent.
Israel is chomping at the bit no doubt to see it happen.
All of these movements are a show of force and defensive for the friendly Gulf States. Now if Iran decides to launch a missile or two into Israel, things will go south, especially if there is loss of life.
Trump: If Iran attacks, we will attack 52 Iranian targets
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/274081
"Let this serve as a WARNING that if Iran strikes any Americans, or American assets, we have targeted 52 Iranian sites (representing the 52 American hostages taken by Iran many years ago), some at a very high level & important to Iran & the Iranian culture, and those targets, and Iran itself, WILL BE HIT VERY FAST AND VERY HARD. The USA wants no more threats!"
Israel does not want a hot war with Iran. Sanctions made even more harsh, yes. War, no.
Trump: If Iran attacks, we will attack 52 Iranian targets
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/274081
"Let this serve as a WARNING that if Iran strikes any Americans, or American assets, we have targeted 52 Iranian sites (representing the 52 American hostages taken by Iran many years ago), some at a very high level & important to Iran & the Iranian culture, and those targets, and Iran itself, WILL BE HIT VERY FAST AND VERY HARD. The USA wants no more threats!"
I don't think Trump is bluffing.
https://www.foxnews.com/world/iraqi-air-base-green-zone-rockets
Well it looks like the Green Zone was hit with a couple mortar rounds and Balad was hit with a couple Katyusha rockets.
Shit be gettin' warm over there.....
Anyone think the FBI is "monitoring" any Hezbollah or other type groups here in the U.S. a little more intensely? I know it's a crimp in their style to have to do it with foreign entities here instead of political rivals, but....:rolleyes:
Israel does not want a hot war with Iran. Sanctions made even more harsh, yes. War, no.
Would they not be fine with the US doing the heavy lifting though? They no doubt truly don't want an Iran with nukes and perhaps view Iran as a country they'll have to deal with one way or another.
Israel does not want a hot war with Iran. Sanctions made even more harsh, yes. War, no.
Israel has never wanted a "hot war" with anyone, but other players in the region have always forced their hand.
platoonDaddy
01-04-20, 17:53
Dang, wonder why my post was deleted? !!!
Believe it was following # 165 or # 166
Dang, wonder why my post was deleted? !!!
Believe it was following # 165 or # 166
Re-post it, could have been a glitch.
hotrodder636
01-04-20, 18:25
I am sorry that my brothers in arms are having to go in harms way, but at the same time I am grateful that we have a President that says “carry a big stick”.
MA2_Navy_Veteran
01-04-20, 19:36
I am sorry that my brothers in arms are having to go in harms way, but at the same time I am grateful that we have a President that isn't afraid to use “The big stick”.
Fixed it for ya. :p
I am sorry that my brothers in arms are having to go in harms way, but at the same time I am grateful that we have a President that says “carry a big stick”.
I see you were Navy. My eldest son (age 40) was an AE on CVN-73 USS George Washington. Did basic at Great Lakes and graduated there in March 1996, then A School at NATTC Millington. He did 10 years in the Navy. Went to college at LSU Baton Rouge and is married to Air Force Pilot at Travis AFB California. They have 4 kids.....:)
I'd say because we often go in without one to begin with. We seem to enter conflicts with no actual exit strategy in mind. That's my take anyway.
That was supposedly the all important
Lesson we as a nation learned from Vietnam Nam. But there is always a complication, we will figure that out once we calm things down, etc. And even if we achieve decisive victory (e.g. Iraq), then we get sidetracked into nation building.
1) We can’t build a nation that does not give up the culture which field the problem. Germany had to give up Nazism, Japan had to give up the Emperor as a godlike leader with a war cabinet of ministers. A nation is not likely to give that up unless they are reduced to rubble. In many cases, the general population prefers their own culture no matter how oppressive to a foreign imposed democracy: see Vietnam Nam, Somalia, Afghanistan, etc.
2) We can’t win a war if we allow key combatants and suppliers to take easy safe harbor in neighboring countries. Didn’t work in VN and has not worked with Afghanistan.
3) We can’t let our lust for the Petro Dollar policy determine our foreign military efforts. Let Saudia Arabia fight its own wars.
4) we need to adopt strategic goals around tightly focused efforts that minimize foot soldiers occupying ground we have no intention to hold and rule. I think Trump is on the right track with Iran. Sink our ship and we sink your navy. Attack our embassy and we execute some of your top generals. Attack a refinery and we demolish yours. No invasion, no occupation.
We destroyed the Taliban in 3 months and because we refused to do whatever it took to stop them from going into Pakistan, they were able to rebuild with aid and direction from the Paks. Then we decided to nation build and got bogged down. As soon as we draw down they revert to their cultural ways. Ditto to Iraq.
And what the hell was there to build on in Somalia? Wherever Islam has taken over the country falls apart. We need to face this fact and refuse to get on the ground long term involvement with Islamic countries unless it is to demolish them and stamp out Islam first. Sooner or later we have to decide whether we recognize that Islam is at war with the world (fundamental to their faith) or not. Any war we wage while pretending Islam can be a building block for civilization will fail dramatically.
TheChunkNorris
01-04-20, 20:52
https://www.foxnews.com/world/iraqi-air-base-green-zone-rockets
Well it looks like the Green Zone was hit with a couple mortar rounds and Balad was hit with a couple Katyusha rockets.
Shit be gettin' warm over there.....
Anyone think the FBI is "monitoring" any Hezbollah or other type groups here in the U.S. a little more intensely? I know it's a crimp in their style to have to do it with foreign entities here instead of political rivals, but....:rolleyes:
That’s normal, I have co workers at Al Asad and that’s the norm.
TheChunkNorris
01-04-20, 21:02
https://www.foxnews.com/world/iraqi-air-base-green-zone-rockets
Well it looks like the Green Zone was hit with a couple mortar rounds and Balad was hit with a couple Katyusha rockets.
Shit be gettin' warm over there.....
Anyone think the FBI is "monitoring" any Hezbollah or other type groups here in the U.S. a little more intensely? I know it's a crimp in their style to have to do it with foreign entities here instead of political rivals, but....:rolleyes:
That’s normal, I have co workers at Al Asad and that’s the norm.
I get together for annual meetings with both of my former aviation units. A couple of years ago at a Night Stalker dinner, we looked at recent photos of Mogadishu and some of the places from the "Blackhawk Down" story. To be honest, it didn't look a whole lot different than 1993 with the exception of newer vehicles and power lines where there were none. In mission planning for night operations, pilots always look for power lines. Overall, the same poverty and rotten looking area. I have no interest in ever setting foot in that place again. I was 33 years old when all that went down.
To be honest, and based on a person now who will 60 next month, I don't think we could have turned that place into a functioning, prosperous society no matter what money we pumped into it. In the Bible it says that the Poor will be with you always. That is the case for the Horn of Africa.
Thanks to you and ABNAK, understand what you are saying.
I'd say because we often go in without one to begin with. We seem to enter conflicts with no actual exit strategy in mind. That's my take anyway.
I agree. Seems simple - 'What does victory look like?' and 'How do we leave without undoing victory?' Easy questions, but hard answers.
That was supposedly the all important
Lesson we as a nation learned from Vietnam Nam. But there is always a complication, we will figure that out once we calm things down, etc. And even if we achieve decisive victory (e.g. Iraq), then we get sidetracked into nation building.
For the record the US ended all combat actions January 15, 1973 and All US forces personnel were completely withdrawn by March 1973.
The north did not invade the south until 1975 and Saigon fell on April 30, 1975. Footage of the embassy evacuation and evacuation of locals is often presented as happening immediately after the US withdraw, which is propagandist bullshit. We had an exit strategy and we left, we didn't lose the war, the North took irreparable losses during their Tet Offensive which out local propagandists presented as a Northern victory even though we kicked the shit out of them at Tet.
In a very real way the war was lost following Watergate when the north finally realized the US would no longer honor their pledge to return if the south was violated, and that happened TWO YEARS after we left. Johnson didn't have an exit strategy because he wanted to ignore Vietnam and make it go away so he could build his "Great Society" in the belief he would be remembered like Lincoln or FDR as a President who saved the nation, sadly he was just a belligerent and incompetent **** up.
Nixon devised and got the best possible conclusion (aka exit strategy) to the war and the ONLY thing he failed to do was make sure we got everyone back. Kissinger was a limp wristed POS with the backbone of a jellyfish and he worried that small details like POWs and MIA's could squirrel the deal and made decisions as irresponsible and despicable as those of Robert McNamara. We learned later to the nations shame that live POWs were indeed left behind and forgotten. All official investigations into the fate of remaining POWs were continually undermined through the 1980s and it is probably the greatest failing of Ronald Reagan that he didn't prioritize the issue enough and fully investigate things while people were still alive.
I also find it highly unlikely that George Bush (41) didn't know about remaining POWs while serving as the director of the CIA from Jan. 1976 and specifically tasked with the aftermath of the Vietnam war and it's covert operations.
A couple other points. Nation building DOES work, but it only works if the population understands that they were completely defeated. The Germans were made to understand they were defeated, there would have been no Marshall Plan if roving bands of werewolf SS partisan groups were still active and SUPPORTED by the local population. That did NOT happen, anyone with a SS uniform dug a hole and buried it and wished to shit they didn't have a blood group tattoo under their arm.
Similarly, Japan understood they got their asses kicked. A far right nationalist author Yukio Mishima attempted a "call to arms" to force out the American occupiers and regain control of Japan in an attempted coup on November 25, 1970. The members of the Japanese Self Defense forces that he pleaded to booed and jeered him, having failed to motivate the remnants of the Japanese military he committed suicide. This is because Japan understood we kicked their asses.
This difference in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan is we didn't declare war on those countries, we declared war on an ideology. If we tried to fight a war against National Socialism in Germany and National Imperialism in Japan, we'd still be there fighting against an idea with a population that helped us when it was in their best interest and undermined us when it was in their best interest.
For a time Vietnam felt like they got their asses kicked but Walther Cronkite, SDS and Honoi sponsored groups like VVAW and millions of hippie protestors convinced them they didn't lose and Ford wouldn't keep Nixon's pledge to return if the north invaded the south.
In Iraq and Afghanistan we tried to win the hearts and minds of people who literally viewed us as the Great Satan. Afghanistan was willing to tolerate a serpent in the garden when it was providing arms and support to kill invading Russians but when it came to killing other Afghani's, well that is like China helping us with civil unrest, there is nothing that would unify us more but somehow we can't see it when we do it.
We could have been successful in Iraq, after all it was a mostly secular, arab state which is quite unusual for the area. Hell they had women in government and we had a good relationship before Bush 41 screwed Saddam over slant drilling across the border by Kuwait. IF we had invaded Iraq, neutralized their military and took out the Top Teir leadership without destroying the existing government and completely eliminating their capacity to defend their oil reserves from countries like Iran, we could have told #21 "You are in charge now, don't make us come back", unfortunately Bush 43 was also an idiot who decided to fix things since we were there already.
Also Petro dollar only applies to oil exporting nations. The US is not a oil exporting nation, we have no petro dollar status. Kuwait and Saudi Arabia ARE oil exporting nations, they have a petro dollar economy.
Not that I disagree with your overall sentiments, I think our time and money is best served improving things stateside rather than trying to fix other countries with US tax dollars. But you are operating under some very common misconceptions.
That was supposedly the all important
Lesson we as a nation learned from Vietnam Nam. But there is always a complication, we will figure that out once we calm things down, etc. And even if we achieve decisive victory (e.g. Iraq), then we get sidetracked into nation building.
1) We can’t build a nation that does not give up the culture which field the problem. Germany had to give up Nazism, Japan had to give up the Emperor as a godlike leader with a war cabinet of ministers. A nation is not likely to give that up unless they are reduced to rubble. In many cases, the general population prefers their own culture no matter how oppressive to a foreign imposed democracy: see Vietnam Nam, Somalia, Afghanistan, etc.
2) We can’t win a war if we allow key combatants and suppliers to take easy safe harbor in neighboring countries. Didn’t work in VN and has not worked with Afghanistan.
3) We can’t let our lust for the Petro Dollar policy determine our foreign military efforts. Let Saudia Arabia fight its own wars.
4) we need to adopt strategic goals around tightly focused efforts that minimize foot soldiers occupying ground we have no intention to hold and rule. I think Trump is on the right track with Iran. Sink our ship and we sink your navy. Attack our embassy and we execute some of your top generals. Attack a refinery and we demolish yours. No invasion, no occupation.
We destroyed the Taliban in 3 months and because we refused to do whatever it took to stop them from going into Pakistan, they were able to rebuild with aid and direction from the Paks. Then we decided to nation build and got bogged down. As soon as we draw down they revert to their cultural ways. Ditto to Iraq.
Dude, well ****ing said. I don’t fully agree with you on the last paragraph but all the others were a solid explanation of why we haven’t won a war since WWII.
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I am sorry that my brothers in arms are having to go in harms way, but at the same time I am grateful that we have a President that says “carry a big stick”.
I don’t want to go fight Iran, but I sure do feel better about the thought of it with Trump’s recent actions. I really don’t think it’ll happen, but at least it seems like our current POTUS is up for actually taking the fight to the enemy instead of all the other bullshit that’s happened over the last several years.
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For the record the US ended all combat actions January 15, 1973 and All US forces personnel were completely withdrawn by March 1973.
The north did not invade the south until 1975 and Saigon fell on April 30, 1975. Footage of the embassy evacuation and evacuation of locals is often presented as happening immediately after the US withdraw, which is propagandist bullshit. We had an exit strategy and we left, we didn't lose the war, the North took irreparable losses during their Tet Offensive which out local propagandists presented as a Northern victory even though we kicked the shit out of them at Tet.
In a very real way the war was lost following Watergate when the north finally realized the US would no longer honor their pledge to return if the south was violated, and that happened TWO YEARS after we left. Johnson didn't have an exit strategy because he wanted to ignore Vietnam and make it go away so he could build his "Great Society" in the belief he would be remembered like Lincoln or FDR as a President who saved the nation, sadly he was just a belligerent and incompetent **** up.
Nixon devised and got the best possible conclusion (aka exit strategy) to the war and the ONLY thing he failed to do was make sure we got everyone back. Kissinger was a limp wristed POS with the backbone of a jellyfish and he worried that small details like POWs and MIA's could squirrel the deal and made decisions as irresponsible and despicable as those of Robert McNamara. We learned later to the nations shame that live POWs were indeed left behind and forgotten. All official investigations into the fate of remaining POWs were continually undermined through the 1980s and it is probably the greatest failing of Ronald Reagan that he didn't prioritize the issue enough and fully investigate things while people were still alive.
I also find it highly unlikely that George Bush (41) didn't know about remaining POWs while serving as the director of the CIA from Jan. 1976 and specifically tasked with the aftermath of the Vietnam war and it's covert operations.
A couple other points. Nation building DOES work, but it only works if the population understands that they were completely defeated. The Germans were made to understand they were defeated, there would have been no Marshall Plan if roving bands of werewolf SS partisan groups were still active and SUPPORTED by the local population. That did NOT happen, anyone with a SS uniform dug a hole and buried it and wished to shit they didn't have a blood group tattoo under their arm.
Similarly, Japan understood they got their asses kicked. A far right nationalist author Yukio Mishima attempted a "call to arms" to force out the American occupiers and regain control of Japan in an attempted coup on November 25, 1970. The members of the Japanese Self Defense forces that he pleaded to booed and jeered him, having failed to motivate the remnants of the Japanese military he committed suicide. This is because Japan understood we kicked their asses.
This difference in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan is we didn't declare war on those countries, we declared war on an ideology. If we tried to fight a war against National Socialism in Germany and National Imperialism in Japan, we'd still be there fighting against an idea with a population that helped us when it was in their best interest and undermined us when it was in their best interest.
For a time Vietnam felt like they got their asses kicked but Walther Cronkite, SDS and Honoi sponsored groups like VVAW and millions of hippie protestors convinced them they didn't lose and Ford wouldn't keep Nixon's pledge to return if the north invaded the south.
In Iraq and Afghanistan we tried to win the hearts and minds of people who literally viewed us as the Great Satan. Afghanistan was willing to tolerate a serpent in the garden when it was providing arms and support to kill invading Russians but when it came to killing other Afghani's, well that is like China helping us with civil unrest, there is nothing that would unify us more but somehow we can't see it when we do it.
We could have been successful in Iraq, after all it was a mostly secular, arab state which is quite unusual for the area. Hell they had women in government and we had a good relationship before Bush 41 screwed Saddam over slant drilling across the border by Kuwait. IF we had invaded Iraq, neutralized their military and took out the Top Teir leadership without destroying the existing government and completely eliminating their capacity to defend their oil reserves from countries like Iran, we could have told #21 "You are in charge now, don't make us come back", unfortunately Bush 43 was also an idiot who decided to fix things since we were there already.
Also Petro dollar only applies to oil exporting nations. The US is not a oil exporting nation, we have no petro dollar status. Kuwait and Saudi Arabia ARE oil exporting nations, they have a petro dollar economy.
Not that I disagree with your overall sentiments, I think our time and money is best served improving things stateside rather than trying to fix other countries with US tax dollars. But you are operating under some very common misconceptions.
In regards to the Petro Dollar, our lust is for the policy which forces all oil importing countries to purchase Saudi oil in US dollars. This forces most of the world to eat our dollars no matter how much we debase it with debt. Which in turn allows our Congress and Presidents to spend 30% more than revenues collected every year for the last 12 years at least. This lust to be able to overspend with mitigated consequences is what keeps us on a leash to the Saudis and why we go around kicking in ME doors and camping out there for 18 years.
We whore out our military might do our politicians can get re-elected easily. No disrespect to our superlative warfighters. But our politicians are bitch boy whores to the Saudis as Clinton, Bush and Obama proved clearly. Hopefully Trump will break us out of that corrupt policy.
In regards to Viet Nam you are correct that we were winning when we quit in 1973. But that is the problem, we quit and the North did not. Technically the South lost, but when you walk off an unfinished battlefield I consider that a loss.
But that war was hugely more costly because we refused to plainly state that NVN was using Cambodia and Laos as supply lines and bases and staging areas and that we would NOT be restricted in destroying them. Plus we had a schizo policy on taking the war to the North.
And we set up some of the South’s leaders for coup or execution, while trying to pretend we weren’t fighting the war but just helping the South. Half measures and trying to pretend deniability does not win wars. While we were winning it was due to the incredible fighting spirit and military training and organization of our troops and superb air.
Our politicians hobbled nearly every effort. And fundamentally the South really was not united in resisting the North. I’ve known many South Vietnamese and some from the North. The ones from the North had a single vision of what the goal was and who to follow even if they were not enthusiastic about it.
The South was very divided between city and “subhuman” rural and savage mountain, minority ruling Catholics left over from French, and majority Buddhist or animist. Plus ethnic Chinese. There was massive corruption, undermining, spying and scheming. So it was not a very good foundation for a stand alone nation away. In the North you complied or got reformed or dead.
It could have been much different if we just came out and told China and NVN that any fighting in the South would be attributed to them, VC or NVA, and we would blast their supplies and bases no matter which country they were in. We could have done much more in the North to prevent supplies from Russia and China and cripple more infrastructure. But we were too afraid of China to send three carrier task forces North. But Vietnamese hate China, they have been enemies for 1,000 years or more. No way would NVN want China steamrolling into their country! If we decide to fight war on a country we need to seal it and smash it, hunt it and kill it. If not willing to do that we should either exit or commit only to selective air/missiles targeting.
I thought those were the lessons every said we should have learned. Colin Powell even said we should not go to war without an exit strategy. Anyone able to state our current exit strategy in the ME in a couple of sentences?
Business_Casual
01-05-20, 06:44
In regards to the Petro Dollar, our lust is for the policy which forces all oil importing countries to purchase Saudi oil in US dollars. This forces most of the world to eat our dollars no matter how much we debase it with debt. Which in turn allows our Congress and Presidents to spend 30% more than revenues collected every year for the last 12 years at least. This lust to be able to overspend with mitigated consequences is what keeps us on a leash to the Saudis and why we go around kicking in ME doors and camping out there for 18 years.
We whore out our military might do our politicians can get re-elected easily. No disrespect to our superlative warfighters. But our politicians are bitch boy whores to the Saudis as Clinton, Bush and Obama proved clearly. Hopefully Trump will break us out of that corrupt policy?
A point here - Western economies run on oil. It is the lubricant that keeps us moving, for lack of a better term.
Secondly, with advances in oil extraction, we are a net exporter of oil again. Something Obama and Clinton couldn’t or wouldn’t have managed...
If we decide to fight war on a country we need to seal it and smash it, hunt it and kill it. If not willing to do that we should either exit or commit only to selective air/missiles targeting.
I'm no general or military planner, but I think you've put in very simple terms how the USA should view all future wars.
In regards to Iran, I think the second option is all we need to worry about going forward. If they attack our assets abroad or at home, strike an important target in their country - rinse and repeat. They do not have the ability to project force like we do, a few rounds of having **** blown up inside of their borders and I think they'd replace that "scary" red flag with a white one. In fact, if I were in charge the next target on my list of things to destroy would be the mosque they hoisted that flag up on top of.
I don't think it has to be too complicated. If nobody can clearly, definitively, and easily articulate why involved in global conflict that puts American lives at risk is necessary and beneficial then it should be a no go until it can be. There has to be a clear gain other than bureaucrats and contractors making huge sums of money while G.I.'s die.
I don't see that in the ME. The U.S. handed out a lot money to by loyalty and that never works. The local always play along and end up using the money, weapons, training, and information they steal against you.
I remember one of the many, many memoirs that I've read where a new C.O. that was rotating into a COP (combat out post) in Afghanistan to relieve another outfit went out to meet the local tribal chiefs. The naive C.O. told the chief he was there to help him. The chief told the CO he didn't need his help and only had one question- when are you leaving?
Other chief's told the new C.O. the same thing they told all the other C0's that rotated in and out every 6 month's, he needed money, weapons, ammo, comms, uniforms, and to be informed of operation in the area. And the cycle just goes on and on and on.
Just in:
Iraqi parliament calls on government to expel U.S. troops
https://www.axios.com/iraq-parliament-us-troops-iran-soleimani-39f46292-b6b5-4070-bacd-92cfae1f586c.html
Grand58742
01-05-20, 10:14
SIAP
But I'd probably listen to the man.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/01/03/petraeus-on-qassem-suleimani-killing-says-trump-helped-reestablish-deterrence/
Just in:
Iraqi parliament calls on government to expel U.S. troops
https://www.axios.com/iraq-parliament-us-troops-iran-soleimani-39f46292-b6b5-4070-bacd-92cfae1f586c.html
I’d be fine with US troops leaving the country. They were back in country to help in the fight against isis and that fight is largely over now.
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SIAP
But I'd probably listen to the man.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/01/03/petraeus-on-qassem-suleimani-killing-says-trump-helped-reestablish-deterrence/
Good interview. I expect ted him to promote Obama’s “restraint.” The FO interviewer asked the liberal leading questions but Petraeus was clear this is a deterrent response not an inflammatory one.
Just in:
Iraqi parliament calls on government to expel U.S. troops
https://www.axios.com/iraq-parliament-us-troops-iran-soleimani-39f46292-b6b5-4070-bacd-92cfae1f586c.html
Non-Binding resolutions. Sunnis and Kurds didn't show up to vote, so it was only Shiites voting = Iran supporters.
Grand58742
01-05-20, 11:13
Just in:
Iraqi parliament calls on government to expel U.S. troops
https://www.axios.com/iraq-parliament-us-troops-iran-soleimani-39f46292-b6b5-4070-bacd-92cfae1f586c.html
As Lee Corso would put it, "Not so fast, my friend..."
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2020/01/05/iraqis-vote-to-kick-us-troops-out-following-killing-of-soleimani/
The majority of about 180 legislators present in Parliament voted in favor of the resolution. It was backed by most Shiite members of parliament, who hold a majority of seats. Many Sunni and Kurdish legislators did not show up for the session, apparently because they oppose abolishing the deal.
I'm not sure if they need a simple majority or what. But also there is no formal Prime Minister at the moment, so the resolution is non-binding at the moment until they elect a new full time Prime Minister.
ETA:
https://www.npr.org/2020/01/05/793746580/iraqi-parliament-votes-to-expel-u-s-troops-from-country-in-wake-of-soleimani-str
Sunni and Kurdish members of parliament boycotted the session, but Shiite parties, many of them Iranian-backed, had enough votes to pass the resolution.
The parliament vote on Sunday is non-binding. The current outgoing government could try to delay the move, but it would be difficult to reject the proposal outright.
Abdul-Mahdi, who resigned in November, has assumed a caretaker role until parliament approves a successor. That could leave the final say on the future of U.S. forces in Iraq to his eventual replacement.
Yeah points to ponder, half or more of both Iraq and Iran are happy this happened, same for many more countries where this dirt bag was operating. The idea the news media is pushing that he was universally loved in Iran is fake news, don't forget the protests that have recently been put down violently. Two, Iran was openly colluding with the Democrats to undercut Trump, John Kerry met with them in Paris in 2018 to give advice on how to deal with him. You can bet 2020 was shaping up to be a big year for Iran, they undoubtedly believed that Trump would be hamstrung by Dimo's and impeachment and they would be able to do whatever and in the process help their allies the Dimo's win elections, big miscalculation, big, big miscalculation, huuuge miscalculation. I also am of the opinion that taking him out was a game changer that has made us safer.
Averageman
01-05-20, 12:17
Someone needs to reign in John Kerry.
Like most Democrats his actions are counter to the best interests of the United States.
I'm still not sure how he gets away with this crap.
Ready.Fire.Aim
01-05-20, 12:18
A point here - Western economies run on oil. It is the lubricant that keeps us moving, for lack of a better term.
Secondly, with advances in oil extraction, we are a net exporter of oil again. Something Obama and Clinton couldn’t or wouldn’t have managed...
In fairness, the domestic, onshore, oil production boom started during the last administration . Very cheap interest rates are the biggest influence on the current oil boom. Upstream side of the oil business carries a lot of cheap debt- highly leveraged.
Favorable national administration under President Trump certainly helped boom to continue.
Fracking & horizontal drilling has been around in common use in Texas since the 1980s.
3D Seismograph technology really advanced as computers got more powerful and cheap in past 10 years.
FYI, several liquified natural gas LNG export facilities are being built and expanded along Texas & Louisiana gulf coast. LNG facilities cost $8 to $12 billion each. Japanese are big investors since they shut down their nukes after Fukushima.
In my view, this hit was the most important military action in a positive direction taken by the USA since 9-11.
He can't be replaced, Esmail Ghaani is a very poor substitute. Iran has been severely hurt by the death of this terrorist.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-05-20, 12:42
In my view, this hit was the most important military action in a positive direction taken by the USA since 9-11.
He can't be replaced, Esmail Ghaani is a very poor substitute. Iran has been severely hurt by the death of this terrorist.
Biggest hit since Yamamoto was taken out...
All this 'what is Iran going to do, and did we provoke them..." How come no one talks about how Iran shouldn't have been sowing death and destruction for the past 40 years and specifically killing our troops with IEDs and the recent attacks on our embassy. Why don't the Iranians need to check themselves before they wreck themselves?
I think the Iranians have had a long game going in this whole process. The removal of Saddam leads to the eventual takeover by Iran of Iraq. If and when the US leaves, I see a potential civil war in Iraq between the Sunni and Shiites, which could keep Iran bogged down. The resolution passed today by mainly Shiites has a provision for the disarming of the population. When the US is gone, Shiites make their move and civil war ensues.
Thats damn near all they know.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Iraq
Grand58742
01-05-20, 13:31
I think the Iranians have had a long game going in this whole process. The removal of Saddam leads to the eventual takeover by Iran of Iraq. If and when the US leaves, I see a potential civil war in Iraq between the Sunni and Shiites, which could keep Iran bogged down. The resolution passed today by mainly Shiites has a provision for the disarming of the population. When the US is gone, Shiites make their move and civil war ensues.
And that's the point where Kurdistan declares it's independence.
As Lee Corso would put it, "Not so fast, my friend..."
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2020/01/05/iraqis-vote-to-kick-us-troops-out-following-killing-of-soleimani/
I'm not sure if they need a simple majority or what. But also there is no formal Prime Minister at the moment, so the resolution is non-binding at the moment until they elect a new full time Prime Minister.
ETA:
https://www.npr.org/2020/01/05/793746580/iraqi-parliament-votes-to-expel-u-s-troops-from-country-in-wake-of-soleimani-str
It's a non-binding resolution, so unless the PM tells us to pound sand, it's meaningless.
just a scout
01-05-20, 15:29
I think the Iranians have had a long game going in this whole process. The removal of Saddam leads to the eventual takeover by Iran of Iraq. If and when the US leaves, I see a potential civil war in Iraq between the Sunni and Shiites, which could keep Iran bogged down. The resolution passed today by mainly Shiites has a provision for the disarming of the population. When the US is gone, Shiites make their move and civil war ensues.
**** them all. This is our opportunity, let’s bring everyone home now.
**** the Colin Powell nation-building crap. Expeditionary warfare all the way. If you screw with us, we’ll pound you and your country into meat paste and leave. If you want to trade with us, do it fairly. Or we pound you into meat paste and leave.
I’ve done my share for God and country in a number of shitholes. Let’s stop with the forever wars and being the worlds policeman. The ME has always been a land of eternal war and it will always be a land of eternal war. Same with Africa. We don’t need the oil anymore, we can protect the petrodollar with expeditionary and strategic means. Africa has some rare earths we need and China is doing their best to **** us there too. I think Trump will end up breaking China if we get out of his way. Without constant war and burning our blood and treasure. The only thing worthwhile in the ME is Israel and they don’t need our troops.
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As Lee Corso would put it, "Not so fast, my friend..."
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2020/01/05/iraqis-vote-to-kick-us-troops-out-following-killing-of-soleimani/
I'm not sure if they need a simple majority or what. But also there is no formal Prime Minister at the moment, so the resolution is non-binding at the moment until they elect a new full time Prime Minister.
ETA:
https://www.npr.org/2020/01/05/793746580/iraqi-parliament-votes-to-expel-u-s-troops-from-country-in-wake-of-soleimani-str
Good to know, thanx. Like the Democrats voting for impeachment: nonsense to satisfy their base knowing perfectly well it's worthless.
Good to know, thanx. Like the Democrats voting for impeachment: nonsense to satisfy their base knowing perfectly well it's worthless.
Purely symbolic. No teeth.
**** the Colin Powell nation-building crap. Expeditionary warfare all the way. If you screw with us, we’ll pound you and your country into meat paste and leave. If you want to trade with us, do it fairly. Or we pound you into meat paste and leave.
Colin Powell was less of a Nation Builder fan than most know. Remember he had a philosophy regarding going into these 3rd World Shit holes - "If you break it, you own it".
When we took out Saddam, we actually kind of broke it, and we've owned it for a while. Now the next door shop owner wants to pick up the pieces and glue it back together in a totally different shape. It won't look the same as before.
As tensions with Iran escalated, Trump opted for an extreme measure. Pentagon officials were stunned.
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/nationworld/ct-nw-nyt-trump-decision-to-kill-soleimani-20200105-we7fksvu25farhbbb2wkwv3zfm-story.html
In the chaotic days leading to the death of Maj. Gen. Qassem Soleimani, Iran’s most powerful commander, top American military officials put the option of killing him — which they viewed as the most extreme response to recent Iranian-led violence in Iraq — on the menu they presented to President Donald Trump.
They didn’t think he would take it. In the wars waged since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, Pentagon officials have often offered improbable options to presidents to make other possibilities appear more palatable.
After initially rejecting the Soleimani option on Dec. 28 and authorizing airstrikes on an Iranian-backed Shiite militia group instead, a few days later Trump watched, fuming, as television reports showed Iranian-backed attacks on the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad, according to Defense Department and administration officials.
By late Thursday, the president had gone for the extreme option. Top Pentagon officials were stunned.
Royal Navy deployed to protect British ships in Gulf in wake of Qassim Soleimani's assassination
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/01/04/britain-sends-warships-persian-gulf-protect-citizens-wake-qassim/
Grand58742
01-05-20, 17:15
Good to know, thanx. Like the Democrats voting for impeachment: nonsense to satisfy their base knowing perfectly well it's worthless.
The difference being is you have to look around for that info. Most news outlets want you to think the vote was completely in favor of kicking us out. As well as the omitting of the facts Shi'a groups are often supported or sponsored by Iran.
Basically, more "Orange Man Bad" narrative coming from our media.
As tensions with Iran escalated, Trump opted for an extreme measure. Pentagon officials were stunned.
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/nationworld/ct-nw-nyt-trump-decision-to-kill-soleimani-20200105-we7fksvu25farhbbb2wkwv3zfm-story.html
So they laid out an option and was stunned when the President took it? When has this President ever gone for the least extreme option? I don't know if I buy that at all. That being said, I still think the right decision was made. Soleimani was the world's leading terrorist responsible for death and misery around the globe, including the deaths of hundreds of Americans. I feel confident that he wasn't in Iraq on a vacation but to observe and plan more terrorist attacks as stated by the Pentagon. And these mentally deranged movie stars and ComDems in Congress who says he shouldn't have been targeted are guilty of providing comfort to the enemy.
Grand58742
01-05-20, 17:20
Perhaps Democrats should start listening to their own?
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/01/04/trump-iran-tweet-general-clark-cupp-vpx.cnn
StovePipe_Jammer
01-05-20, 17:25
As tensions with Iran escalated, Trump opted for an extreme measure. Pentagon officials were stunned.
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/nationworld/ct-nw-nyt-trump-decision-to-kill-soleimani-20200105-we7fksvu25farhbbb2wkwv3zfm-story.html
I love the fact Trump was described as "fuming" watching the attacks on our embassy. I can't picture anyone in the previous administration "fuming" when things were going down in Benghazi.
So they laid out an option and was stunned when the President took it? When has this President ever gone for the least extreme option? I don't know if I buy that at all.
He didn’t seem interested in doing anything when Iran was carjacking everything coming thru the straits of Hormuz, nor did he go thru with attack options when they shot down our quarter of a billion dollar drone... or crippled Saudi oil production with a bunch of cruise missiles
As tensions with Iran escalated, Trump opted for an extreme measure. Pentagon officials were stunned.
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/nationworld/ct-nw-nyt-trump-decision-to-kill-soleimani-20200105-we7fksvu25farhbbb2wkwv3zfm-story.html
Sure, like pentagon officials don’t want to get shit spun up anyways.
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Grand58742
01-05-20, 17:32
Lot of information here. It's the Daily Mail, so it's not exactly the best source of info, but there certainly is some bad rhetoric going on if true.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7853703/Iran-threatens-attack-White-House-crushing-powerful-retaliation.html
He didn’t seem interested in doing anything when Iran was carjacking everything coming thru the straits of Hormuz, nor did he go thru with attack options when they shot down our quarter of a billion dollar drone... or crippled Saudi oil production with a bunch of cruise missiles
None of those were against American citizens, or American territory, although with the drone, yes, it was American property. The embassy is American territory, and haven for American citizens.
He didn’t seem interested in doing anything when Iran was carjacking everything coming thru the straits of Hormuz, nor did he go thru with attack options when they shot down our quarter of a billion dollar drone...
He cranked up the sanctions on Iran which has their economy in a bind. After the drone shoot down he said publicly that he called off our air strikes because to him shooting down an unmanned drone is not the same as a manned aircraft so he didn't think killing lots of Iranians was the right response. But this time an American is killed and our embassy attacked and burned and then opportunity to take out the lead Iranian terrorist presented itself.
Grand58742
01-05-20, 17:43
Anyone else think it's ironic we killed a terrorist mastermind and he gets carried to his funeral by an American truck?
https://static.timesofisrael.com/www/uploads/2020/01/000_1NF7N1-640x400.jpg
Anyone else think it's ironic we killed a terrorist mastermind and he gets carried to his funeral by an American truck?
Why is Chevy exporting to Iran anyway? Glad I Drive a Ford [emoji851]
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Grand58742
01-05-20, 18:03
Why is Chevy exporting to Iran anyway? Glad I Drive a Ford [emoji851]
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GM probably sold them to finance the payback of the US Government bailout money.
GM probably sold them to finance the payback of the US Government bailout money.
:lol::lol:
just a scout
01-05-20, 18:09
He cranked up the sanctions on Iran which has their economy in a bind. After the drone shoot down he said publicly that he called off our air strikes because to him shooting down an unmanned drone is not the same as a manned aircraft so he didn't think killing lots of Iranians was the right response. But this time an American is killed and our embassy attacked and burned and then opportunity to take out the lead Iranian terrorist presented itself.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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Diamondback
01-05-20, 18:26
As tensions with Iran escalated, Trump opted for an extreme measure. Pentagon officials were stunned.
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/nationworld/ct-nw-nyt-trump-decision-to-kill-soleimani-20200105-we7fksvu25farhbbb2wkwv3zfm-story.html
Rebuttal from my former editor at Redstate, a former infantry officer: https://www.redstate.com/streiff/2020/01/05/760343/
This is where I think the account begins to go off the rails. Presenting the principal, the boss, with unpalatable decisions to steer them towards the preferred decision is a time-honored staff technique. That should never be done as a “tack on,” and would only be done as such by rank amateurs because you always have to be prepared to act on whatever option is chosen. If someone did “tack on” killing Soleimani thinking it was too outlandish to be considered, then the whole decisionmaking process on the Joint Staff is irreparably broken because such an addition for sh**s-and-grins is deeply dishonest and disloyal and whoever pulled such a stunt should be publicly identified and cashiered from the service.
Anyone else think it's ironic we killed a terrorist mastermind and he gets carried to his funeral by an American truck?
That funeral procession should have been the target of a MOAB.
dwhitehorne
01-05-20, 18:33
He didn’t seem interested in doing anything when Iran was carjacking everything coming thru the straits of Hormuz, nor did he go thru with attack options when they shot down our quarter of a billion dollar drone... or crippled Saudi oil production with a bunch of cruise missiles
Trump also did an interview after cancelling a US mission after the drone attack. I remember watching it when he said I can't kill that many people over downing an unarmed drone. Once a US citizen was kill it was a different level.
It is funny how we latch on to something the media says when we know from experience there narrative is always against the President.
I can't imagine someone in the Pentagon actually admitting to proposing a plan and being shocked that it was executed. The story sound like more BS. Just imagine the intelligence and logistics involved in pulling off such a complex operation with such high level over site. The news saying the Pentagon just through out this missile strike idea out in a meeting and two days later it magically happened just doesn't pass the smell test. David
He didn’t seem interested in doing anything when Iran was carjacking everything coming thru the straits of Hormuz, nor did he go thru with attack options when they shot down our quarter of a billion dollar drone... or crippled Saudi oil production with a bunch of cruise missiles
I might have missed it, but I don't recall Iran ever carjacking any US vessels coming through the Straits of Hormuz or directly attacking US personnel until the recent missile strike.
hotrodder636
01-05-20, 19:16
Go Navy!
I see you were Navy. My eldest son (age 40) was an AE on CVN-73 USS George Washington. Did basic at Great Lakes and graduated there in March 1996, then A School at NATTC Millington. He did 10 years in the Navy. Went to college at LSU Baton Rouge and is married to Air Force Pilot at Travis AFB California. They have 4 kids.....:)
As tensions with Iran escalated, Trump opted for an extreme measure. Pentagon officials were stunned.
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/nationworld/ct-nw-nyt-trump-decision-to-kill-soleimani-20200105-we7fksvu25farhbbb2wkwv3zfm-story.html
Too f*****g bad. They do what they're told by the Commander-in-Chief.
Anyone who thinks it’s fantastic that the government spends hundreds of billions per year. THAT WE DONT HAVE on maintaining the American world empire and all the weapons needed, and anyone that cheers when our government escalates conflicts with nations who stand opposed to that American world empire, should do a couple things:
1) Sign up to go get shot at in one of these far corners of the world where we have no business being. Don’t cheer for others to get deployed and shot at, you go yourself, chicken hawk. You like flexing military muscle world-wide? Participate pussy.
2) Realize that you are a massive hypocrite if you support “draining the swamp”, “dismantling the deep state”, or “restoring the republic” if you ALSO enjoy getting mired in expensive and abusive foreign conflicts. To be consistent in your beliefs, you would need to support reducing American presence on other continents, a halt to nation-building/ destabilization campaigns, and a halt to unreasonable violent actions that have been proven GUARANTEED to result in blowback in the region.
3) realize that we are acting like the Roman Empire, and if we keep it up much longer, we will collapse just like they did. How many countries do we have troops in? How do the locals like that? How much money are we spending that we DONT HAVE?
I can’t believe the cognitive dissonance of some members here.
Anyone who thinks it’s fantastic that the government spends hundreds of billions per year. THAT WE DONT HAVE on maintaining the American world empire and all the weapons needed, and anyone that cheers when our government escalates conflicts with nations who stand opposed to that American world empire, should do a couple things:
1) Sign up to go get shot at in one of these far corners of the world where we have no business being. Don’t cheer for others to get deployed and shot at, you go yourself, chicken hawk. You like flexing military muscle world-wide? Participate pussy.
2) Realize that you are a massive hypocrite if you support “draining the swamp”, “dismantling the deep state”, or “restoring the republic” if you ALSO enjoy getting mired in expensive and abusive foreign conflicts. To be consistent in your beliefs, you would need to support reducing American presence on other continents, a halt to nation-building/ destabilization campaigns, and a halt to unreasonable violent actions that have been proven GUARANTEED to result in blowback in the region.
3) realize that we are acting like the Roman Empire, and if we keep it up much longer, we will collapse just like they did. How many countries do we have troops in? How do the locals like that? How much money are we spending that we DONT HAVE?
I can’t believe the cognitive dissonance of some members here.
Colin Kapernick has an account here?
I can’t believe the cognitive dissonance of some members here.
Back at ya'.
He cranked up the sanctions on Iran which has their economy in a bind. After the drone shoot down he said publicly that he called off our air strikes because to him shooting down an unmanned drone is not the same as a manned aircraft so he didn't think killing lots of Iranians was the right response. But this time an American is killed and our embassy attacked and burned and then opportunity to take out the lead Iranian terrorist presented itself.
No, and I agree with his decision then. However, since aircraft and ordnance were just about to be released I firmly believe that we watched the Iranian air defenses light up like a Christmas tree, which could come in handy someday......:rolleyes:
I believe if you enjoy the freedom of this country you should support our soldiers and the decisions of our president and military leaders. If your not on the USA side then relocate elsewhere.
I believe if you enjoy the freedom of this country you should support our soldiers and the decisions of our president and military leaders. If your not on the USA side then relocate elsewhere.
Lol wut
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I believe if you enjoy the freedom of this country you should support our soldiers and the decisions of our president and military leaders. If your not on the USA side then relocate elsewhere.
Spoken like a mindless, thoughtless automaton for the state. Congrats
What better way to support the troops then to bring many of them home, and refuse to deploy them to war but only in the most necessary of circumstances?
Colin Kapernick has an account here?
LoL, figured I’d take some flack. But for real: make an argument for why I’m wrong. How can one simultaneously believe in shrinking govt and give two thumbs up to bullsh*t foreign wars and deficit spending?
Anyone who thinks it’s fantastic that the government spends hundreds of billions per year. THAT WE DONT HAVE on maintaining the American world empire and all the weapons needed, and anyone that cheers when our government escalates conflicts with nations who stand opposed to that American world empire, should do a couple things:
1) Sign up to go get shot at in one of these far corners of the world where we have no business being. Don’t cheer for others to get deployed and shot at, you go yourself, chicken hawk. You like flexing military muscle world-wide? Participate pussy.
2) Realize that you are a massive hypocrite if you support “draining the swamp”, “dismantling the deep state”, or “restoring the republic” if you ALSO enjoy getting mired in expensive and abusive foreign conflicts. To be consistent in your beliefs, you would need to support reducing American presence on other continents, a halt to nation-building/ destabilization campaigns, and a halt to unreasonable violent actions that have been proven GUARANTEED to result in blowback in the region.
3) realize that we are acting like the Roman Empire, and if we keep it up much longer, we will collapse just like they did. How many countries do we have troops in? How do the locals like that? How much money are we spending that we DONT HAVE?
I can’t believe the cognitive dissonance of some members here.
Cute. You ever served? I have a DD-214, how about you? Got lucky and didn't get sent to combat, but I served (and not as a REMF). Do I have a right to opine on an issue that probably predates you? Iran has had a MASSIVE bitch-slap coming for over 40 years. I remember, do you?
You can kiss my f*****g ass if you are insinuating I don't have a right to comment on this.
Cute. You ever served? I have a DD-214, how about you? Got lucky and didn't get sent to combat, but I served (and not as a REMF). Do I have a right to opine on an issue that probably predates you? Iran has had a MASSIVE bitch-slap coming for over 40 years. I remember, do you?
You can kiss my f*****g ass if you are insinuating I don't have a right to comment on this.
You signed up. You served, therefore you are not a hypocrite. You are someone who puts your money where your mouth is. You aren’t who I’m talking about.
I’m talking about people who get a boner for violence in other countries, that will escalate into wars, all for bullsh*t reasons, and these people have had and continue to have NO INTENTION of deploying themselves. They’re flippant about sending others friends and family off to the other side of the world, like it’s a f#cking football game.
You, and any other current or prior service, aren’t who I’m referring to.
Inkslinger
01-05-20, 19:53
LoL, figured I’d take some flack. But for real: make an argument for why I’m wrong. How can one simultaneously believe in shrinking govt and give two thumbs up to bullsh*t foreign wars and deficit spending?
Because the Pandora’s box of global affairs was opened long before every living human on this planet had breath in there lungs. There are countries on this planet that are by one means or another tasked with keeping everything in check. Until the day comes when the entire world has been bought a Coke and taught to sing, its in Americans (this includes you) best interest to be the top dog in this daunting task. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t clean our own house, but it also doesn’t mean we should be second fiddle to the other biggest swinging dick on the block.
You signed up. You served, therefore you are not a hypocrite. You are someone who puts your money where your mouth is. You aren’t who I’m talking about.
I’m talking about people who get a boner for violence in other countries, that will escalate into wars, all for bullsh*t reasons, and these people have had and continue to have NO INTENTION of deploying themselves. They’re flippant about sending others friends and family off to the other side of the world, like it’s a f#cking football game.
You, and any other current or prior service, aren’t who I’m referring to.
Fair enough. We're good.
TheChunkNorris
01-05-20, 19:54
He didn’t seem interested in doing anything when Iran was carjacking everything coming thru the straits of Hormuz, nor did he go thru with attack options when they shot down our quarter of a billion dollar drone... or crippled Saudi oil production with a bunch of cruise missiles
I have a theory about that.. I believe we intentionally let them shoot it down like we intentionally crash landed a RQ170 in Iran.
I have a theory about that.. I believe we intentionally let them shoot it down like we intentionally crash landed a RQ170 in Iran.
While air defense was out of my purview as a grunt, I suspect we watched the Iranian air defense "light up" and took notes.
I dunno why all these college kids think there will be a draft.
. There are countries on this planet that are by one means or another tasked with keeping everything in check.
And that just happens to be us? With our blood and tax dollars? Pursuing OUR interests? American global empire?
Fair enough. We're good.
I should have been more clear with my wording.
I dunno why all these college kids think there will be a draft.
Pretty sure it's drummed-up by the MSM. A draft is probably about as likely as a big meteor strike.
Inkslinger
01-05-20, 20:07
And that just happens to be us? With our blood and tax dollars? Pursuing OUR interests? American global empire?
Like I said, the game has been played for ages. We just happen to be at the top in this moment in history. Let’s hope we stay there.
I dunno why all these college kids think there will be a draft.
Iran isn’t going to do shit
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MA2_Navy_Veteran
01-05-20, 20:18
Now, now,... Everybody just remain calm and remember:
to eat more bacon; buy more guns & ammos; & vote for Trump in November. If we all do that I'm sure everything will work out just as it should,... well - for everybody except Mozart, cause I think Virginia might just implode in three days or so when they pretty much lose all their gun rights, so good luck to you Moz, & all you Virginian gun owners. :ph34r:
Iran isn’t going to do shit
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Iran... Iran so far away.
The embassy is American territory, and haven for American citizens.
I don't think that is strictly true:
Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations
Article 22
1.The premises of the mission shall be inviolable. The agents of the receiving State may not enter them, except with the consent of the head of the mission.
2.The receiving State is under a special duty to take all appropriate steps to protect the premises of the mission against any intrusion or damage and to prevent any disturbance of the peace of the
mission or impairment of its dignity.
3.The premises of the mission, their furnishings and other property thereon and the means of transport of the mission shall be immune from search, requisition, attachment or execution.
Article 24
The archives and documents of the mission shall be inviolable at any time and wherever they may be.
Article 25
The receiving State shall accord full facilities for the performance of the functions of the mission.
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