View Full Version : New KAC Suppressors: Pressure Reduction Technology
BallisticHarmony
01-06-20, 18:18
This is from the new 2020 KAC Catalog. Both cans are QDC compatible.
https://i.imgur.com/elF3naO.png
Nice find. I’m so glad I didn’t just buy a KAC can. I desperately need to get into NFA land.
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Hmmm. I do believe one of these may be on the horizon for me.
Dear God, I almost put the money down on the QDC. Waiting patiently for this now. Very excited.
I don't know how "real" this product's performance will be. But that ad reads like the ultimate marketing B.S. ever. A whole lot of non-quantifiable chazzle dazzle adjectives.
I'd like to see the end cap. It pretty much sounds like some tweeks the baffle stack and a bunch of marketing hype.
BallisticHarmony
01-07-20, 15:53
I'd like to see the end cap. It pretty much sounds like some tweeks the baffle stack and a bunch of marketing hype.
https://i.imgur.com/n9dTEWi.png
Well look at that. At first I was kind of sad because the two suppressors I bought are a 762 CRS, and a 5.56 QDC CQB. On a second look the CRS PRT is 6.2 ounces heavier than the original CRS, and the CQB PRT is 3 ounces heavier than the original QDC/CQB. Did Knights put in a extra steel tube in these?
I'm interested, but I'm not sure it makes sense for me because I own the original versions of those supressors.
Those appear to be perimeter vents in the end cap.
That possibly indicates a coaxial design with forward venting.
https://i.imgur.com/n9dTEWi.png
Just paid for a QDC. I do not feel sad in the least.
https://i.imgur.com/n9dTEWi.png
As a lefty the less gas to the face blowback the better. Looking at this I wonder if there is some oss-like technology in there, or if there’s a large cavity after the last baffle that vents out of the ports?
Good lord listen to you people, like KAC needs marketing hype to sell products and is not known for innovation. I don't have a dog in this hunt but I would wager these are going to be better and possibly much better.
Failure2Stop
01-08-20, 12:09
I don't know how "real" this product's performance will be. But that ad reads like the ultimate marketing B.S. ever. A whole lot of non-quantifiable chazzle dazzle adjectives.
I do.
And it's all quantifiable.
They're a new line based on specific government requirements. Commercial release point is unknown.
Furbyballer
01-08-20, 12:50
I do.
And it's all quantifiable.
They're a new line based on specific government requirements. Commercial release point is unknown.
When I leave VA in a year Jack, I hope these are on the market for civilians because I have been holding off ordering 5 more of your cans because VA is going full retard.
Good lord listen to you people, like KAC needs marketing hype to sell products and is not known for innovation. I don't have a dog in this hunt but I would wager these are going to be better and possibly much better.
Could be. My only comment is on the ad/write up. Sounds like the usual marketing hype. The cap pics help.
Implications of the end cap are very interesting.
I hope someone X-rays one oneday, I'm interested to see
I do.
And it's all quantifiable.
They're a new line based on specific government requirements. Commercial release point is unknown.
That'll show him.....you can't even have it if you did like it, cool guys only at this point :p
Failure2Stop
01-08-20, 15:50
That'll show him.....you can't even have it if you did like it, cool guys only at this point :p
Yeah, the catalog was not supposed to publicly release. It is what it is.
I do.
And it's all quantifiable.
They're a new line based on specific government requirements. Commercial release point is unknown.
Want two for 556 and two for 762. Jack please put me numero uno on the list.:cool:
If there are no civilian sales in the near future, that will give me time to save up, and think about it. I really enjoy using the CRS, so it might be nice to get a different flavor of it in the far future. The CRS-PRT might be really nice for my SR-25.
Failure2Stop
01-09-20, 16:03
Could be. My only comment is on the ad/write up. Sounds like the usual marketing hype. The cap pics help.
I don't think that you're intending to be as negative as previous posts read, so please don't take my response as anything other than addressing your points.
Here's the ad copy with information depth (the problem with ad copy is that it has to be short and to the point and serve as a point of reference for interested parties, not give evidential depth of data):
KAC’s Pressure Reduction Technology (PRT) Signature Reduction Device line blends the proven durability and acoustic performance of the previous generation of KAC suppressors with pressure reduction design.
We took the baffle weldments of our robust high-performers and added in design features that vent pressure after the suppression event has transpired. Our suppressors are designed for and have proven to be at least among the most robust and durable designs available or fielded. There isn't a much more concise way to accurately convey those facts.
These suppressors are specifically engineered to release the majority of the pressure contained in the device and bore prior to the operating system beginning extraction, which significantly reduces the negative effects of suppressor integration, and reduces felt recoil compared to a traditional suppressor with the same level of sound reduction.
We weren't just randomly welding stuff to and poking holes into the suppressors. They were designed around the QDC attachment system and internal features of suppressors that work well using a lot of past experience with suppressor design, gas flow modeling software, high speed video, and extensive prototyping and live-fire confirmation, along with government testing and confirmation that validates and verifies our claims. A whole lot of the retained pressure held in the bore and suppressor is released after projectile transit, and prior to extraction; which makes the suppressor addition way more neutral in operating system effect. Since the operating system isn't getting that bore pressure boost, the buffer impacts at less speed (lower force= lower recoil), and baffles are naturally a brake, they just don't feel like it because of the recoil increase (brake effect=lower recoil).
Muzzle flash, and specifically first-round flash, has also been directly addressed and minimized with the PRT design.
Many "low back-pressure" suppressor designs have pretty bad flash and first round flash. Many don't really care about that, but our core customers do. So we made significant effort to ensure that our flash profile is minimal. We use both advanced light sensors and photography equipment/techniques to test and verify the performance. We're doing pretty good there.
The Quick Disconnect (QDC) mounting method ensures reduced carbon-lock, as well as minimal but repeatable point of impact shift when transitioning between suppressed and unsuppressed configurations.
KAC QDC suppressors have been adopted and fielded in significant numbers, and government testing indicates that this claim is entirely accurate.
For interval maintenance, the PRT devices can be cleaned with commonly used bore solvents or ultrasonic tank cleaning with a water rinse.
Pretty much is what is says. Lots of other neato-whiz-bang suppressors and coatings don't necessarily agree with those methods. Rinsing in clean fresh water helps get those solvents out of the can so when it gets hot it isn't pouring out nasty smoke.
Anyway, just giving info to flesh out the statements.
I want one in the worse way possible. Ugh
Also 10/10 want 1.375x24 Threaded QDC Mount for the F1 suppressor crowd.
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Yeah that’s a solid sales pitch. Slight bummer about the weight increase and I’ve heard the KAC cans are on the louder end, but when I finally get there, most of what the new changes are supposed to effect are my big concerns.
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QDC cans are already so low pressure compared to a huge segment of the market, I bet these new ones will be bananas.
Also 10/10 want 1.375x24 Threaded QDC Mount for the F1 suppressor crowd.
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I will buy several copies of this along with several QDC flash suppressors.
I will buy several copies of this along with several QDC flash suppressors.
100% this.
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QDC cans are already so low pressure compared to a huge segment of the market, I bet these new ones will be bananas.. I found this to be true on my mini QDC on my 16inch SR15. Handles the gas well. Still pretty pumped about my MAMS.
I think Jack should T&E me an SR25 and one of these new cans. Just a thought.
PB
Like every thing about these, but the weight increase.
Furbyballer
01-15-20, 13:02
KAC 556 cans already have the lowest back pressure design that ive seen or sued that wasn't a gimmick. Ive been singing KAC 556 can praises since I bought my first 2 in 2016. I would sell all my surefires and buy more KAC cans based on performance if it wasn't such a giant pain in the ass to sell NFA items.
I have 2 on order. Basically the same kind of design OSS uses, which will be the standard 5-8 years from now. Defiantly not the quietest suppressor but will last longer than most other suppressors in same class. POI on my KAC QDC 556 is roughly 13" at 100 yards- compared to about 20" from my AAC M4.
I have a few KAC suppressors and they are designed great and built to last. Heavier than a Silencer Co Omega, Saker, AAC Mini4, SD and a Surefire Socom RC II. One draw back is that KAC is generally $300-450 more in cost and honestly, I don't know what the reason is. All my suppressors (17) have the same quality and approximately weight/size. I will say the AAC, SilencerCo, ASR and Surefire have the best mounting systems. I have broken the index pin on 2 KAC MAMS.
I have 2 on order. Basically the same kind of design OSS uses, which will be the standard 5-8 years from now. Defiantly not the quietest suppressor but will last longer than most other suppressors in same class. POI on my KAC QDC 556 is roughly 13" at 100 yards- compared to about 20" from my AAC M4.
I have a few KAC suppressors and they are designed great and built to last. Heavier than a Silencer Co Omega, Saker, AAC Mini4, SD and a Surefire Socom RC II. One draw back is that KAC is generally $300-450 more in cost and honestly, I don't know what the reason is. All my suppressors (17) have the same quality and approximately weight/size. I will say the AAC, SilencerCo, ASR and Surefire have the best mounting systems. I have broken the index pin on 2 KAC MAMS.
Jesus. What hack threaded your barrels? I thought my Noveske with 8moa shift and a proven g2g surefire can was bad! 20moa! Insane.
Also note that the KAC QDC weighs less than a surefire socom RC2. I dunno about the others as I dont own any gen of them.
The lower backpressure of OSS and the cans they inspired is a nice benefit, but every one of those cans has an cleaning schedule. That part really gets at me. I know we've all seen the cutaway of the 100k round NT4 that's newrly packed solid with copper and carbon. I weigh my cans regularly, and even with soaking in CLR for 48hrs, a minimal amount of fouling is removed. One of my Surefire cans is up about 4oz after 6500rds or so. I am concerned for these small passageways in the flow through type cans. In a military supply chain, the can can be tied to the barrel and replaced on the same schedule. For civilian ownership, "permanence" becomes a much bigger issue.
That is the #1 factor keeping me from going OSS or salivating for this new KAC to drop for us civvies. Conventional cans are a known quantity, the QDC is already low backpressure, lighter, and suppresses better.
KAC costs more because of government contracts and pricing structure/agreements. They also tend to put a very comprehensive amount of R&D into stuff. An example is the NT4. It came out many moons ago. It's still viable even if dated. OSS on the other hand is on gen 7? now, and catastrophic failures define the earlier gens. Same story for Surefire on cost, RD, etc. You have an extremely high likelihood of getting a complete, functional product, from KAC, SF, etc. that has had the gremlins worked out prior to you even knowing it exists.
Failure2Stop
01-16-20, 14:13
I have 2 on order. Basically the same kind of design OSS uses, which will be the standard 5-8 years from now. Defiantly not the quietest suppressor but will last longer than most other suppressors in same class. POI on my KAC QDC 556 is roughly 13" at 100 yards- compared to about 20" from my AAC M4.
I have a few KAC suppressors and they are designed great and built to last. Heavier than a Silencer Co Omega, Saker, AAC Mini4, SD and a Surefire Socom RC II. One draw back is that KAC is generally $300-450 more in cost and honestly, I don't know what the reason is. All my suppressors (17) have the same quality and approximately weight/size. I will say the AAC, SilencerCo, ASR and Surefire have the best mounting systems. I have broken the index pin on 2 KAC MAMS.
13” at 100 yards is the largest I have ever heard of.
I am also concerned that you are shearing the pin on your muzzle device.
I would be highly suspect on that installation and would advise that you have it looked it.
ETA: the KAC design has 0% in common with the OSS design other than that a projectile passes through and they attach to the muzzle.
I’m confused. What does 13’ at 100 yards mean? Edumacate me. And compared to 20’ on AAC.
I too am a heavy Stamp Collector.
PB
Failure2Stop
01-16-20, 15:29
I’m confused. What does 13’ at 100 yards mean? Edumacate me. And compared to 20’ on AAC.
I too am a heavy Stamp Collector.
PB
I really should have asked that. I assumed it was POI shift, but that could be an error on my part.
Failure2Stop
01-16-20, 15:32
FWIW: POI shift with most KAC QDC suppressors is less than 1.5 MOA.
Some .300 BLK is weird with the original 762QDC, but those are not product-line indicative.
Eurodriver
01-16-20, 17:03
Cool. Can I get one before Mid-2021 (Form 3 & 4 wait time included) or will this be vaporware?
Don't worry. My gripe is not KAC specific. Any suppressors released at SHOT seemingly never make to the market, so it's hard to give a shit. If they do, it's several years later.
I have money and I would purchase a 5.56 can right now. Does KAC want it or nah? Not a fan of letting someone hold my money for a year just to be like "oops, QC issues.". (Again, not KAC specific but it's now a personal rule due to being burned by ****tards in the gun industry at SHOT consistently from 2011-2013.)
Eurodriver
01-16-20, 17:03
Duplicate post.
What does 13’ at 100 yards mean? Edumacate me. And compared to 20’ on AAC.
I too am a heavy Stamp Collector.
13" brother. 13' would be outrageous.
FWIW, I keep all my stamps in a binder inside of the plastic sheets for easy access. Just pop open binder and take out relevant sheets for range.
13" brother. 13' would be outrageous.
FWIW, I keep all my stamps in a binder inside of the plastic sheets for easy access. Just pop open binder and take out relevant sheets for range.
I keep mine in plastic sheets as well, but they never leave my safe. I have considered making photocopies and put into my shooting truck. Or taking pictures on my phone and save in a file. but it just hasn't happened.
So what does the 13" mean? The 20" mean? Is it shooting 13 inch groups, or dropping 13 inches or regardless it sounds insane.
My KAC can had very little POI effect. I may test it on Sunday for shits and giggles.
PB
60411
60412
So, this is my collection minus 5-6 that are somewhere. Anyways, a lot of the POI really depends weather I had it direct threaded on the barrel or the use of a attachment. Im not kidding, I had a KAC QDC 556 off about 12-13" at 100 yards, that was using a MAMS attachment on a SR-15 16". That was using 55 and 62 gr, if i use heavier rounds like barnes 85 OTM BT then i get more consistency as well as better POI but i dont want to run 85 gr all the time. Regardless, im still a KAC fan as well as there suppressors. I have my name on these PRT's already.
Having said that, I had a horrible experience with AAC over the years until 2018. In my experience which may be different from yours is:
Surefire: Built like a tank! One of the top 5 quietest suppressors I have and I have (6). Sometimes its extremely difficult to remove suppressor from the mount after use. F/A rated. My SBR's love them.
AAC: Quite heavy for size, very durable. Was the standard 10 years ago. Now that Remington own them, quality has stabilized. Not the quietest but easy to attach without any indexing. F/A rated. Experience varies from gun to gun. As far as having a "movie quiet" suppressor, this is it, having razor sharp precision accuracy, not so much.
OSS: Defiantly not the quietest!! My SBR's love OSS suppressors, my ears don't! Cost a little more than others but at least I can disassemble and clean. I love the HX on my P90! When i stated that the KAC are like the OSS design, i was talking about the operation, not the actual design. This will be the standard in a few years- the military is leaning heavily on this type of suppressor. KAC is not going to come in last on this.
Thunderbeast: Super light weight!! Minimal POI while attaching directly. Very quiet! I use on a 6.5 and have had a great experience.
KAC: Very expensive ( I own 4). So, i have had good experience on some guns and not so good experience on SBR's or pistol length gas systems. Like i said earlier, the POI is almost funny. No baffle strikes ever, quieter than Surefire and dissipates heat faster than most suppressors. I could have gotten a few suppressors that met the minimal quality control standard, who knows. For QCB (25-35 yards), they work fantastic. The QDC 762 works superb with a 10.5" 300blk supersonic. The QDC 556 works better with heavier rounds but not enough observation or experience.
SilencerCO: The Saker is by far one of the best suppressors on the market, especially now that they have gone from the earlier Trifecta mount to the ASR mount. The Omega is also a great suppressor, a little lighter than the Chimera but still heavier than the Surefire SOCOM 762. Overall, my experience with SilencerCo products has been great.
Griffen Armament: I only have 2 and not enough experience.
60411
60412
So, this is my collection minus 5-6 that are somewhere. Anyways, a lot of the POI really depends weather I had it direct threaded on the barrel or the use of a attachment. Im not kidding, I had a KAC QDC 556 off about 12-13" at 100 yards, that was using a MAMS attachment on a SR-15 16". That was using 55 and 62 gr, if i use heavier rounds like barnes 85 OTM BT then i get more consistency as well as better POI but i dont want to run 85 gr all the time. Regardless, im still a KAC fan as well as there suppressors. I have my name on these PRT's already.
Having said that, I had a horrible experience with AAC over the years until 2018. In my experience which may be different from yours is:
Surefire: Built like a tank! One of the top 5 quietest suppressors I have and I have (6). Sometimes its extremely difficult to remove suppressor from the mount after use. F/A rated. My SBR's love them.
AAC: Quite heavy for size, very durable. Was the standard 10 years ago. Now that Remington own them, quality has stabilized. Not the quietest but easy to attach without any indexing. F/A rated. Experience varies from gun to gun. As far as having a "movie quiet" suppressor, this is it, having razor sharp precision accuracy, not so much.
OSS: Defiantly not the quietest!! My SBR's love OSS suppressors, my ears don't! Cost a little more than others but at least I can disassemble and clean. I love the HX on my P90! When i stated that the KAC are like the OSS design, i was talking about the operation, not the actual design. This will be the standard in a few years- the military is leaning heavily on this type of suppressor. KAC is not going to come in last on this.
Thunderbeast: Super light weight!! Minimal POI while attaching directly. Very quiet! I use on a 6.5 and have had a great experience.
KAC: Very expensive ( I own 4). So, i have had good experience on some guns and not so good experience on SBR's or pistol length gas systems. Like i said earlier, the POI is almost funny. No baffle strikes ever, quieter than Surefire and dissipates heat faster than most suppressors. I could have gotten a few suppressors that met the minimal quality control standard, who knows. For QCB (25-35 yards), they work fantastic. The QDC 762 works superb with a 10.5" 300blk supersonic. The QDC 556 works better with heavier rounds but not enough observation or experience.
SilencerCO: The Saker is by far one of the best suppressors on the market, especially now that they have gone from the earlier Trifecta mount to the ASR mount. The Omega is also a great suppressor, a little lighter than the Chimera but still heavier than the Surefire SOCOM 762. Overall, my experience with SilencerCo products has been great.
Griffen Armament: I only have 2 and not enough experience.
A 13" POI shift is absolutely unsat. I have never had a Surefire can off by more than about 4moa on any gun that wasn't a POS, and on my good stuff like my Hodge, there is no POI shift. If my QDC 556 on a custom Bartlein has more than 4moa, I will not be a happy camper.
FWIW: POI shift with most KAC QDC suppressors is less than 1.5 MOA.
Some .300 BLK is weird with the original 762QDC, but those are not product-line indicative.
Updated to reflect that I now read this ^^ Yes, <1.5moa is totally cool and in line with what I expect at this level.
Cool. Can I get one before Mid-2021 (Form 3 & 4 wait time included) or will this be vaporware?
Don't worry. My gripe is not KAC specific. Any suppressors released at SHOT seemingly never make to the market, so it's hard to give a shit. If they do, it's several years later.
I have money and I would purchase a 5.56 can right now. Does KAC want it or nah? Not a fan of letting someone hold my money for a year just to be like "oops, QC issues.". (Again, not KAC specific but it's now a personal rule due to being burned by ****tards in the gun industry at SHOT consistently from 2011-2013.)
This was a military item and the press release wasn't supposed to even leak. It's not even a can you SHOULD be able to buy, as a civilian, as of right now, government not withstanding.
Eurodriver
01-17-20, 12:13
This was a military item and the press release wasn't supposed to even leak. It's not even a can you SHOULD be able to buy, as a civilian, as of right now, government not withstanding.
That's even worse. Why do people get hype about things they cannot own? :(
BallisticHarmony
01-17-20, 13:58
That's even worse. Why do people get hype about things they cannot own? :(
It wasn't "leaked," KAC put it right up on their website. For all this hush-hush talk they sure didn't do a good job since they just let someone put it up online: https://www.knightarmco.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/KAC-CATALOG-DIGITAL-2020.pdf
Elephant , your suppressors sure are in much better shape than mine. Mine look beat to **** compared to yours, good on you. I guess I shouldn't dump them in a bag and throw in the back of a truck, oh well.
Can I get a clarifying explanation on where the 13 inches is going. Straight down, or 13 inch groups? Are is this whole thing Bullshit.
E, you can do it, answer the 13 inch mystery.
PB
BallisticHarmony
01-17-20, 17:23
Elephant , your suppressors sure are in much better shape than mine. Mine look beat to **** compared to yours, good on you. I guess I shouldn't dump them in a bag and throw in the back of a truck, oh well.
Can I get a clarifying explanation on where the 13 inches is going. Straight down, or 13 inch groups? Are is this whole thing Bullshit.
E, you can do it, answer the 13 inch mystery.
PB
He's talking about a 13 inch Point of Impact shift from where the gun was zeroed without a suppressor. In other words, he's saying his groups are off by over a foot at 100 yards from the original zero.
Jack has stated, as have others, that this is highly irregular for a KAC-quality can (or any modern can, for that matter), and it's probably an issue with the barrel or mounting interface. No one else to my knowledge is seeing that sort of POI shift with a KAC can. I'd love to see someone try, honestly, because that's pretty ridiculous. 20 inches is even more insane. No one would bother to use cans if that was the standard.
Elephant , your suppressors sure are in much better shape than mine. Mine look beat to **** compared to yours, good on you. I guess I shouldn't dump them in a bag and throw in the back of a truck, oh well.
Can I get a clarifying explanation on where the 13 inches is going. Straight down, or 13 inch groups? Are is this whole thing Bullshit.
E, you can do it, answer the 13 inch mystery.
PB
Thanks, I only use like 4 mainly! By the way, I put suppressor covers on all of them. I have a Safteyclean parts washer I use to clean everything gun related, just take off your optic and throw the whole damn gun in the tank and clean away! Its not professional but I'm lazy and it gets the job done!
He's talking about a 13 inch Point of Impact shift from where the gun was zeroed without a suppressor. In other words, he's saying his groups are off by over a foot at 100 yards from the original zero.
This pretty much sums it up. Its been a pretty weird experience for me on a couple of guns. Just matching certain guns with certain suppressors. I have no complaints on KAC suppressors, but did have experience with a 12-13" POI shift, that was a 16" SR-15 MOD 1, However, on a 16" LWRC, it was normal. Likewise, i have found that some guns like some suppressors with certain ammo. My AAC SD762 on a Gunwerks 7mm was crazy off at 200 yards, i put a Thunderbeast on and didn't hardly notice a POI change at 200yards. Now, one thing i have heard is that attaching a 21oz suppressor to a 26" carbon wrapped proof barrel might be too much ( i highly doubt it but wouldn't be surprised) so that's why i put a much lighter thunderbeast on there and didn't notice much change. If anyone could elaborate, please explain. But for the most part, I have nothing but good experience with all my suppressors, there was only a couple odd experiences. I have a short video of that one incident somewhere, it may be on my Instagram, but I'm shooting tracers at a 4'x2' target at 100yard distance and a lot of them are hitting the ground at around 80 yards. And this particular gun had a Nightforce ATACR 1-8 zeroed at 100 yards. You might say that Elephant is a bad shot, I wouldn't disagree but, but I'm not that bad.
Someone asked how I sheared my index pin on my MAMS brake, well first off, I think "sheared" was a bad term to use. I should have said, it simply broke. But that was after a couple of years of use. I'm not sure how it broke, I noticed one time when trying to align the KAC suppressor and it wasn't finding the pin. It was a easy fix, just found some small round bar and pressed it in. Normally I don't notice these things until I'm an hour away from home and need to use it. I drove 3 hours to go shoot some pigs with a few friends, took a 6.5 CR bolt action rifle and brought along 200 rounds of 6.5 Grendel. That's my life in a nutshell!
But to answer your question with all honesty, i dont know why. im not a scientist or one to look too deeply into things. I was just simply pointing that out.
Failure2Stop
01-17-20, 23:58
It wasn't "leaked," KAC put it right up on their website. For all this hush-hush talk they sure didn't do a good job since they just let someone put it up online: https://www.knightarmco.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/KAC-CATALOG-DIGITAL-2020.pdf
The marketing department was not informed that that there were non-public release product details there, so during a regular update it was released.
Not playing semantics, but it wasn’t supposed to go out, that’s about it.
Once it was discovered, we decided it was better to just discuss it even though our commercial release process wasn’t able to be followed.
BallisticHarmony
01-18-20, 00:59
The marketing department was not informed that that there were non-public release product details there, so during a regular update it was released.
Not playing semantics, but it wasn’t supposed to go out, that’s about it.
Once it was discovered, we decided it was better to just discuss it even though our commercial release process wasn’t able to be followed.
Noted. I for one am very grateful that you’ve been willing to share details about it with us, so thank you sir.
I own :
Surefire
AAC
Sig
T Beast
KAC
Gemtech
I am happy with all my cans, not too particular about them or noise differences. The biggest thing is the newer cans handle the back-pressure so much better. And mfg have learned to make a fatter can really helps. ie Sig cans are a bit more chubby which I like.
And have never seen more than 2 inch shift. It was almost always just slightly down from the weight of the can. But I run everything suppressed so shifts are no big deal to me. Im going to test my KAC can / gun just for fun this weekend. I recently put a mams mount on that gun and I'm so impressed. Makes me want to run it a bit without a can because the gun doesn't budge when I shoot it. YMMV
PB
Outlander Systems
01-19-20, 13:43
Hell yeah. Where’d you order them from?
I have 2 on order. Basically the same kind of design OSS uses, which will be the standard 5-8 years from now. Defiantly not the quietest suppressor but will last longer than most other suppressors in same class. POI on my KAC QDC 556 is roughly 13" at 100 yards- compared to about 20" from my AAC M4.
I have a few KAC suppressors and they are designed great and built to last. Heavier than a Silencer Co Omega, Saker, AAC Mini4, SD and a Surefire Socom RC II. One draw back is that KAC is generally $300-450 more in cost and honestly, I don't know what the reason is. All my suppressors (17) have the same quality and approximately weight/size. I will say the AAC, SilencerCo, ASR and Surefire have the best mounting systems. I have broken the index pin on 2 KAC MAMS.
Unless someone cut one open on a water jet and posted pics I’m not sure how anyone can state with certainty it’s just like an OSS can. There more than one way to vent baffle stacks.
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I tried my KAC CQB ON OFF my SR15 today. POI shift was about 1.5 moa straight down. Which is exactly what I’d expect. YMMV
PB
Hell yeah. Where’d you order them from?
technically not on order but on a list with an SOT I work with.
TacticalFun
01-20-20, 15:23
I dont see this available from my distributor yet. Hopefully i can buy them soon.
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Failure2Stop, the OSS cans claim to increase carrier speed no more than 5% on a traditional 16in mid gas setup. They are also flashy as hell at night. Does your new very low back pressure can perform similarly in terms of increasing carrier velocity?
I'd be curious to see these tested along side the new SIG very low back pressure 3d printed cans.
Failure2Stop
01-28-20, 00:26
Failure2Stop, the OSS cans claim to increase carrier speed no more than 5% on a traditional 16in mid gas setup. They are also flashy as hell at night. Does your new very low back pressure can perform similarly in terms of increasing carrier velocity?
I'd be curious to see these tested along side the new SIG very low back pressure 3d printed cans.
There are a lot of variables that contribute to carrier velocity, but around 5% is a good round number.
The KAC PRT line was built around a flash requirement, and they do very well with the specified ammo.
I have not evaluated the Sig cans, but I see this to be a growing segment of suppressors intended for use on semi-auto platforms.
Failure2Stop, wow that is really excellent performance, very exciting. Any chance we could see that on high speed video at some point?
There are a lot of variables that contribute to carrier velocity, but around 5% is a good round number.
The KAC PRT line was built around a flash requirement, and they do very well with the specified ammo.
I have not evaluated the Sig cans, but I see this to be a growing segment of suppressors intended for use on semi-auto platforms.
Jack, any ETA on these? I’m super close to sending some of that stimulus check to set up a trust.
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ShadowMoses
04-27-20, 12:54
I love my full size QDC 5.56 suppressor a lot.
The QDC CQB PRT is definitely in my future when they hit the commercial sector. This just means that my next gun is getting a MAMS.
Now back to trying to hold off on grabbing a QDC CQB like I was trying to hold off before..
Jack, any ETA on these? I’m super close to sending some of that stimulus check to set up a trust.
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I am not Jack. I do not speak for Jack.
That said, it is my educated opinion that you should go ahead and spent your check however you want, and if you're still employed, you'll have enough time to have saved back up to buy a PRT when they are available to you, presuming you are a civilian/not getting them with the /mil.
I am not Jack. I do not speak for Jack.
That said, it is my educated opinion that you should go ahead and spent your check however you want, and if you're still employed, you'll have enough time to have saved back up to buy a PRT when they are available to you, presuming you are a civilian/not getting them with the /mil.
Yeah I assume that they really can’t say. I’m leaning towards a Griffin M4SDK until these come out. It’s a lot cheaper so I won’t feel as bad spending money on one of these even if it’s as soon as I get that can.
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Failure2Stop
04-28-20, 09:16
Yeah I assume that they really can’t say. I’m leaning towards a Griffin M4SDK until these come out. It’s a lot cheaper so I won’t feel as bad spending money on one of these even if it’s as soon as I get that can.
With our current suppressor demand I would not expect the PRT suppressor line to be released commercially before the end of Q4.
It breaks my heart to say that, because these cans are next-level. I'm right there in line with the rest of us for these to be available.
Yeah I assume that they really can’t say. I’m leaning towards a Griffin M4SDK until these come out. It’s a lot cheaper so I won’t feel as bad spending money on one of these even if it’s as soon as I get that can.
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Griffin really confuses me. I am watching their latest videos, and they are really quiet at the ear, etc. but the gun cycles so hard with them vs. other cans that are louder at the ear. I do not understand. SAME GUN, too, and I do believe they are intellectually honest with these videos.
BallisticHarmony
04-28-20, 11:45
With our current suppressor demand I would not expect the PRT suppressor line to be released commercially before the end of Q4.
It breaks my heart to say that, because these cans are next-level. I'm right there in line with the rest of us for these to be available.
Thanks Jack, we appreciate you letting us know and all the work you guys are doing to propel the industry forward.
Griffin really confuses me. I am watching their latest videos, and they are really quiet at the ear, etc. but the gun cycles so hard with them vs. other cans that are louder at the ear. I do not understand. SAME GUN, too, and I do believe they are intellectually honest with these videos.
The M4SDk is not a super low backpressure can. It works fine on my 11.3” and 12.3” BA barrels, and I don’t notice any gassiness. Ejection is 2-3 o’clock. Its fine with hot ammo. But when I was using it on my 16” BRT, it gassed me out bad. Even with an AGB, it was pretty bad. Spit oil out of every orifice. Total headscratcher, since the BRT seems lightly gassed. I’ve used it on a few others, and its been a non-issue.
I’m not convinced that good (or bad) at-ear numbers are as inextricably tied to backpressure as people think.
Edit: I apologize for the posting spree. Came to the NFA forums to do some research and got sidetracked.
I'm in the market for a new can and now that I can't have this one I want it... may be worth the wait if they are (hopefully?) released this year...
BallisticHarmony
04-29-20, 13:17
I'm in the market for a new can and now that I can't have this one I want it... may be worth the wait if they are (hopefully?) released this year...
Jack mentioned yesterday that he doesn't anticipate civilian sales before 2021. I would take a hard look at the Energetic Arms Vox or the OSS HX-QD.
Jack mentioned yesterday that he doesn't anticipate civilian sales before 2021. I would take a hard look at the Energetic Arms Vox or the OSS HX-QD.
Eh, wait until the latter third of this year. You'll better be able to evaluate the playing field at that time.
Furbyballer
05-01-20, 05:57
I think the normal KAC cans are better than both those options. If you don't want to wait, just grab a normal QDC. You won't be disappointed.
TacticalFun
05-01-20, 06:06
I think the normal KAC cans are better than both those options. If you don't want to wait, just grab a normal QDC. You won't be disappointed.Explain? The oss has lower back pressure and same sound reduction
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Furbyballer
05-01-20, 06:44
Depends on what you want, but IMO reliability, minimum POI shift, and signature reduction are my criteria. I play a lot at night so signature reduction is big for me. The KAC cans are still hearing safe and for 556 sound reduction is between 136-140 no matter what you do. I love the attachment method on knights cans, I love the muzzle devices from KAC, and I love their tone, especially their CQB cans. They also have amazing back pressure control for a traditional baffle stack can.
TacticalFun
05-01-20, 06:45
Depends on what you want, but IMO reliability, minimum POI shift, and signature reduction are my criteria. I play a lot at night so signature reduction is big for me. The KAC cans are still hearing safe and for 556 sound reduction is between 136-140 no matter what you do. I love the attachment method on knights cans, I love the muzzle devices from KAC, and I love their tone, especially their CQB cans. They also have amazing back pressure control for a traditional baffle stack can.I would agree with all of those things
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Depends on what you want, but IMO reliability, minimum POI shift, and signature reduction are my criteria. I play a lot at night so signature reduction is big for me. The KAC cans are still hearing safe and for 556 sound reduction is between 136-140 no matter what you do. I love the attachment method on knights cans, I love the muzzle devices from KAC, and I love their tone, especially their CQB cans. They also have amazing back pressure control for a traditional baffle stack can.
They’re hearing safe?
Furbyballer
05-04-20, 07:13
Their CQB cans will not be hearing safer on anything less than a 16" in my experience and their Full size is hearing safe on my 12.5 and larger barrels. However, I do not ever shoot 556 without ear pro unless its a single tone check when I get the can or in that nightmare scenario we all own guns for. I believe the tone of the KAC cans is better than SF RC2 cans and their DBs are directly comparable. I own several of both. The QDC 556 CQB is the best mini 556 suppressor on the market currently.
Sorry I didn’t read the whole thread. When can we place order on this
Will there be a 556 full size?
Thanks guys
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Sorry I didn’t read the whole thread. When can we place order on this
Will there be a 556 full size?
Thanks guys
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1) Maybe Q4. MAYBE.
2) Probably, not right now, but the CQB weighs as much as a fullsize, so...
Any update on these? I know KAC suspended new orders, did any dealers order these before the cut off?
I just picked up an SR25 CC and need a KAC can for it...
Failure2Stop
09-16-21, 11:48
Any update on these? I know KAC suspended new orders, did any dealers order these before the cut off?
I just picked up an SR25 CC and need a KAC can for it...
As soon as we can clear govvie and commercial backlog, and get ample supply on shelf, these will be coming.
Thanks for the update Jack. Sounds like it will be a while still. I'll probably just go for a CRS, lighter anyway and all of my KAC cans are already fantastic for backpressure.
TacticalFun
09-16-21, 11:54
As soon as we can clear govvie and commercial backlog, and get ample supply on shelf, these will be coming.Do you know when retail orders will be shipling again for uppers? [emoji1783]
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IKnowNotEverything
01-10-22, 12:45
Any word on availability? I promised myself that 4 ARs is the limit, but never said anything about cans! I'm interested to see how this plays out versus LMTs new ION. A little rivalry is good for everyone, especially w/ e-form 4s being a thing evidently
IKnowNotEverything
06-21-23, 01:56
Any updates on these suppressors coming to civilian market?
Failure2Stop
06-21-23, 11:14
Any updates on these suppressors coming to civilian market?
They have been pushing out over the past few months, with priority going to those that had standing backorders for the previous generation of suppressors.
We had to do a recall as there was a potential issue that could cause damage to the suppressor during use. Anything that left the factory after the recall initiated are definitely good to go. There were approximately 250 commercial suppressors that were covered under the recall range.
Here's a video that covers assembly and disassembly of the collar and shroud:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQslSP6D_KY
They have been pushing out over the past few months, with priority going to those that had standing backorders for the previous generation of suppressors.
We had to do a recall as there was a potential issue that could cause damage to the suppressor during use. Anything that left the factory after the recall initiated are definitely good to go. There were approximately 250 commercial suppressors that were covered under the recall range.
Here's a video that covers assembly and disassembly of the collar and shroud:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQslSP6D_KY
I’m looking forward to these complementing my QDC when I find them in stock. Any idea on KS-1 upper timeline? I’ve seen lots of talk about the cans but don’t remember anything about the new uppers. My 12.5 is a continual disappointment so I’m ready to put the 13.7 KS-1 on my SBR lower and roll with that.
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