View Full Version : Atlanta police chief halts car chases after deaths, injuries
https://www.yahoo.com/news/atlanta-police-chief-halts-car-215513226.html
Atlanta's police chief has ordered a halt to all police car chases after crashes that killed or injured people.
"I don't want to see us cost someone their life in pursuit of an auto theft person or burglar when the courts aren't even going to hold them accountable. I mean, how can we justify that?" Chief Erika Shields said during a news conference Friday afternoon.
Two men were killed last month in Atlanta when their car was hit by a stolen car evading police, police said.
The chief said the order will stay in effect while she reviews a chase policy that has been in place since 2018. Changes might include allowing only highly trained officers to take part in chases, Shields said.
"I don't want to see us cost someone their life in pursuit of an auto theft person or burglar when the courts aren't even going to hold them accountable. I mean, how can we justify that?" Chief Erika Shields said during a news conference Friday afternoon.
She right, tho.
She right, tho.
Agreed.
Years ago when I was a cop I had mixed feeling about no chase policies and got down right mad once or twice when my Lt. would call off a perfectly good chase, but now I'm of the option that's why you have good car insurance. Let State Farm deal with it, I'll get another car.
SomeOtherGuy
01-06-20, 19:57
Agreed.
Years ago when I was a cop I had mixed feeling about no chase policies and got down right mad once or twice when my Lt. would call off a perfectly good chase, but now I'm of the option that's why you have good car insurance. Let State Farm deal with it, I'll get another car.
Sensible. And we're probably a few years out, or less, from having drones available to discretely follow the car and allow apprehension once the driver/perp is out.
“ ...when the courts aren't even going to hold them accountable.”
This right here ^
This is what gets me kicked off of AZ jury pools.
Judge: do you believe you can be fair and impartial if placed on this jury panel, Mr. B?
Me: if you can assure me that the accused will, if found guilty, be punished to the maximum extent Arizona law allows, giving no place to “victim status” or any other manufactured reasons to not punish a criminal.
*POOF*
GONE
These judges will, if not somehow soon checked, create via their own “activism” a reality where LE will simply sit on their hands, and arrest no one for anything. And who would blame them?
#pandemonium
HardToHandle
01-06-20, 20:29
Nothing scares me like car chases... As a motorist. I have been a participant in plenty as a younger man and realized nothing good was going to happen. Now they terrify me, as they have too many opportunities for things to go wrong.
The bigger issue is how correct the Chief rationale is... Why should police hazard themselves if the prosecutors don’t enforce the law on their end? I am not that big on the politics of it, but the same story applies to most of the Democratic urban strongholds - Chicago, Baltimore, New York, etc.
I was a deputy in the USA a long time ago, and used to love chases. In Israel getting a call out was also an excuse to drive crazy.
But I know that both are very dangerous, and on record I crashed into a stopped semi truck, when a swerved to miss a mini van that had pulled out in front of me during the chase. They had to cut me out of the police car.
Chases are fun, but need to be restricted, for public safety.
Chases are NOT fun. My ass was sucking seat and I was praying the whole way gone.
I sorta agree here. Too many resources to use to not wreck out or worse injure an innocent.
Never again.
That's great news, I am not gonna lift off the throttle from the beginning of Atlanta on I-20 to the end. Plus I can run in the HOV lane all by my lonesome...
To limit and minimize dangerous chases is controlling risk.
A total (and well publicised) ban is going to lead to more people running, and over smaller reasons.
Atlanta...almost Oakland.
Just a matter of time before they announce they won't even respond to calls that aren't violent felonies. Wouldn't live there if they gave me a free house.
I get the public safety angle but as a whole I am seeing a trend of large municipalities encouraging crime. Increasing the limit for a theft to be prosecuted to $1000. Releasing criminals without bail. Not chasing criminals. Selective enforcement. It’s almost as though there is a coordinated plan to increase the crime rate. It’s almost as if they want to push the average citizen to beg for more control. It’s almost as if they want an excuse to institute a totalitarian state.
Hmmm
the AR-15 Junkie
01-07-20, 06:14
That's great news, I am not gonna lift off the throttle from the beginning of Atlanta on I-20 to the end. Plus I can run in the HOV lane all by my lonesome...
Only problem with "your plan" is this:, this no chase policy is the city of Atlanta police, the Georgia State Patrol will still chase your ass down lol. The thing to do is head towards the airport where helicopters can't follow. Yeah helicopters can still chase and the city of Atlanta has plenty of those lol.
Something else to consider, in Georgia anyway, fleeing is a FELONY, so get ready to give up "yo guns".
Only problem with "your plan" is this:, this no chase policy is the city of Atlanta police, the Georgia State Patrol will still chase your ass down lol. The thing to do is head towards the airport where helicopters can't follow. Yeah helicopters can still chase and the city of Atlanta has plenty of those lol.
Something else to consider, in Georgia anyway, fleeing is a FELONY, so get ready to give up "yo guns".
https://i.imgur.com/VnQ2CNW.gif
GSP will chase to a point but people are being made to back off more given the numerous fatalities and injuries involved
Stop watching Michael Mann movies. First of all GOOD LUCK driving around the airport free as a song. The Airport have police, cameras, and a lot of homeland security especially Atlanta.
Fleeing and eluding in and of itself is not a felony.
That's great news, I am not gonna lift off the throttle from the beginning of Atlanta on I-20 to the end. Plus I can run in the HOV lane all by my lonesome...Only problem is I-20 is enforced by the state patrol... Who has not made a a no-chase announcement.
That said, I-20 east of the capital is already a dragstrip. Routinely see cars doing 90-100 there. Often while bouncing from lane to lane.
So you'll be in good company!
Now violate the HOV lane, and you'll be caught with cameras and hounded. À
Driving to the Atlanta airport is one of my least favorite things. Huntsville, AL is usually ridiculously expensive to fly from, so always have friends and family flying from or to Atlanta, Birmingham, or Nashville. Nashville is the least painful.
CESwartz07
01-07-20, 07:30
I’m surprised this is new news. We’d have similar policies for at least the last 7 years, probably longer. Takes all the fun out of it. It has to at least be a violent felony before we even consider chasing.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I wonder how long it will be before police can shut down an individual vehicle on command. I'm pretty sure on-star can do it now.
Andy
That's great news, I am not gonna lift off the throttle from the beginning of Atlanta on I-20 to the end. Plus I can run in the HOV lane all by my lonesome...
APD might not chase you but I’ll bet you a streak dinner that the GSP will light you up in a heartbeat... :cool:
I wonder how long it will be before police can shut down an individual vehicle on command. I'm pretty sure on-star can do it now.
Andy
I might be wrong but the issue with that was them shutting down a vehicle while it was still moving and in traffic, loss of power steering etc...
I think they only do it once the vehicle is stopped and in park, or something like that.
CESwartz07
01-07-20, 08:16
I might be wrong but the issue with that was them shutting down a vehicle while it was still moving and in traffic, loss of power steering etc...
I think they only do it once the vehicle is stopped and in park, or something like that.
They can do like a partial shutdown too, where the speed is limited to like 25mph
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The thing to do is head towards the airport where helicopters can't follow.
LOL...
Helo's "on mission" will clear into whatever airspace they need... if its "serious enough" ATC will move airplanes around to accommodate... Ive had to go around before because of this... "no problem, hope you guys get the scum bag"...
https://www.yahoo.com/news/atlanta-police-chief-halts-car-215513226.html
Atlanta's police chief has ordered a halt to all police car chases after crashes that killed or injured people.
"I don't want to see us cost someone their life in pursuit of an auto theft person or burglar when the courts aren't even going to hold them accountable. I mean, how can we justify that?" Chief Erika Shields said during a news conference Friday afternoon.
Two men were killed last month in Atlanta when their car was hit by a stolen car evading police, police said.
The chief said the order will stay in effect while she reviews a chase policy that has been in place since 2018. Changes might include allowing only highly trained officers to take part in chases, Shields said.
She has a point there.
I guess this means we'll never see episodes of Live PD from Atlanta....
I guess this means we'll never see episodes of Live PD from Atlanta....
At least we have no shortage of material for The First 48.
At least we have no shortage of material for The First 48.
I liked that show but after you watch it a while, you realize it's essentially the same show and it gets down right depressing. Once in a while there's a show that's different, but the other 95% are like the same show it seemed.
Hi speed police chases shown on tv doesn't interest me much. It's those slow speed, driver obeying the speed limits, signaling his turns, stopping momentarily at pedestrian crossings and stop signs, etc. that just leave me in stitches. You can tell that LEOs are getting really, really pissed as the chase goes on and on. :lol:
First 48 is only depressing if real people get murdered. Shit on Shit murders are actually heartwarming.
A lot of people seem to think it’s the Dukes of Hazzard with lots of jumps and everything. Nope.
Lots of departments have long had no chase. It has not at all prevented people from getting snatched up later. Plus police have these things, and it’s wild you won’t believe it, called Radios. And with these radios they can set up spike strips.
Like you may well get away for a minute but you will get snatched up because most people use their mom’s car or a friends car and the snitching goes on for days and days.
I dare argue vehicular pursuits are rather outmoded. Bear in mind the fine print. If it is someone actively being a present danger there will be attempts to track and disable.
But overall, no you really don’t need to chase. Explain to the citizen who gets maimed or killed why you had to play Smokey and the Bandit.
Eventually some guys will be coming to your house (or rather your mom or baby moms house) to shove an M4 in your face. Happens everyday usually without fanfare
Hi speed police chases shown on tv doesn't interest me much. It's those slow speed, driver obeying the speed limits, signaling his turns, stopping momentarily at pedestrian crossings and stop signs, etc. that just leave me in stitches. You can tell that LEOs are getting really, really pissed as the chase goes on and on. :lol:
I have hated every chase I have ever been in period. I am not a NASCAR driver. When people start shooting at you it makes it more sporty.
No thanks. Too many resources to use. Not worth it.
I liked that show but after you watch it a while, you realize it's essentially the same show and it gets down right depressing. Once in a while there's a show that's different, but the other 95% are like the same show it seemed.
I imagine there's only so many times you can showcase that stuff before it blurs together.
LOL...
Helo's "on mission" will clear into whatever airspace they need... if its "serious enough" ATC will move airplanes around to accommodate... Ive had to go around before because of this... "no problem, hope you guys get the scum bag"...I'm actually been in a jetranger as it transited the Atlanta Hartsfield airspace.
They fly low and at 90° to the runway and directly bisect the field. Literally fly within a hundred yards of the tower.
The heavies all use direct (straight) approaches, so it's not like there's downwind traffic in the pattern.
Why not just use new/old technology to end chases?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edmmg9Zf51E
Why not just use new/old technology to end chases?
I don't think that caught on because of what happens when the bad guy slams on the brakes when the patrol unit is at .2 seconds following distance trying to deploy that thing.
the AR-15 Junkie
01-07-20, 15:10
https://i.imgur.com/VnQ2CNW.gif
GSP will chase to a point but people are being made to back off more given the numerous fatalities and injuries involved
Stop watching Michael Mann movies. First of all GOOD LUCK driving around the airport free as a song. The Airport have police, cameras, and a lot of homeland security especially Atlanta.
Fleeing and eluding in and of itself is not a felony.
Outhouse lawyer vs real lawyer lol.
However, there are situations where the accused person will be charged with a felony for fleeing or attempting to elude in Georgia. This means that even the first offense could be considered a felony.
These situations include:
Operating a vehicle 20 MPH above the posted speed limit
Striking or colliding with another vehicle or a pedestrian;
Fleeing in traffic conditions, which place the general public at risk of receiving serious injuries; or
Leaving the state of Georgia.
I enjoyed "owning" you. Thank you very much.
Whats wrong with helicopters, or I'm sure at this point drones, in a big metro area like Atlanta. Doesn't LA pretty much just use helicopters for this stuff?
Outhouse lawyer vs real lawyer lol.
However, there are situations where the accused person will be charged with a felony for fleeing or attempting to elude in Georgia. This means that even the first offense could be considered a felony.
These situations include:
Operating a vehicle 20 MPH above the posted speed limit
Striking or colliding with another vehicle or a pedestrian;
Fleeing in traffic conditions, which place the general public at risk of receiving serious injuries; or
Leaving the state of Georgia.
I enjoyed "owning" you. Thank you very much.
OCGA 40-6-395
A little cursory googling would have kept you from making an ass of yourself. Moreso had you read my exact wording: Fleeing and eluding in and of itself is not a felony. Otherwise it is an aggravated misdemeanor.
I mean I’m just a dumbass GA poleece WTF do I know, right?
You sure showed me as well as fvcked up your credibility
"These judges will, if not somehow soon checked, create via their own “activism” a reality where LE will simply sit on their hands, and arrest no one for anything."
If Argentina is anything to go by, they won't sit on their hands, oh no. They'll be arresting you for defending yourself against the hoodlums. Those hoodlums' votes are worth more than your life to the people that matter, after all.
Grand58742
01-07-20, 16:13
Why not just use new/old technology to end chases?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edmmg9Zf51E
I was kinda hoping when that "perp" got out on foot we were going to see how well the tether worked with on foot suspects...
Thanks for ruining it.
I'm actually been in a jetranger as it transited the Atlanta Hartsfield airspace.
They fly low and at 90° to the runway and directly bisect the field. Literally fly within a hundred yards of the tower.
The heavies all use direct (straight) approaches, so it's not like there's downwind traffic in the pattern.
Most of the airports we pass over we go midfield at 500 feet AGL. That plus the "medevac" callsign clears up a lot of airspace for us. We here Phoenix PD air units all the time and most of the air traffic control towers make plenty of space for them too as needed. I don't have much to add to the relevant topic other than the other day on Live PD I saw a pursuit where the officer fired a sticky/magnetic GPS device to a truck and they tracked it to were they parked and arrested several people. Thought that was pretty cool as I haven't seen that before.
Its amazing how many people have no idea what sirens and flashing lights mean.
Its amazing how many people have no idea what sirens and flashing lights mean.
Equally amazing are the number of police officers (and trainers) who don't understand that 'lights and sirens request the right of way, they don't grant the right of way.'
I loved me some chases in the K9 days. A foot bail with a K9 deployment and rapid apprehension is a thing of beauty.
"The Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor is the greatest all around patrol car ever made. Big, dumb, not so quick off the line but hell to get stopped once she got rolling. A four body trunk, shitty suspension, and church pew seats, but she never once failed me. I took her in to places that would make Land Rover blush and came out with nothing missing but paint. She hung in corners like a F1 car out of sheer will to live and stopped on a dime only because I promised god I would give up beer. I miss you Crown Vic. You were the mistress my wife knew about, my office, my home, and the chariot to all of the hot calls. Despite your zip tied hubcaps, cracked plastic around the exhaust, and hazy headlights, I love you.
Signed,
A Loyal Cop"
All that said, yeah, I can see the reasoning, but man, I sure hate how it will promote more bad guys being emboldened to pull off bigger jobs knowing the fuzz isn't going to chase them. Not like Atlanta is Mayberry after all. If I could only come up with a cost-effective way of stopping cars quickly and market it....
I loved me some chases in the K9 days. A foot bail with a K9 deployment and rapid apprehension is a thing of beauty.
"The Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor is the greatest all around patrol car ever made. Big, dumb, not so quick off the line but hell to get stopped once she got rolling. A four body trunk, shitty suspension, and church pew seats, but she never once failed me. I took her in to places that would make Land Rover blush and came out with nothing missing but paint. She hung in corners like a F1 car out of sheer will to live and stopped on a dime only because I promised god I would give up beer. I miss you Crown Vic. You were the mistress my wife knew about, my office, my home, and the chariot to all of the hot calls. Despite your zip tied hubcaps, cracked plastic around the exhaust, and hazy headlights, I love you.
Signed,
A Loyal Cop"
All that said, yeah, I can see the reasoning, but man, I sure hate how it will promote more bad guys being emboldened to pull off bigger jobs knowing the fuzz isn't going to chase them. Not like Atlanta is Mayberry after all. If I could only come up with a cost-effective way of stopping cars quickly and market it....
Thanks, I enjoyed that- I really loved my Crown Vic(s), too. Sad that a whole generation of officers have never driven one.
Anyway, having been in numerous pursuits and having seen several end up not so good I can understand where APD is coming from. But I think it's idiotic to announce to the world that there will be no pursuits, ever, for absolutely no reason. It will just encourage more reckless behavior in that now more people will run from the police.
Equally amazing are the number of police officers (and trainers) who don't understand that 'lights and sirens request the right of way, they don't grant the right of way.'
This. I have known of people who have straight up run people over running code to a call that wasn’t an emergency call and their first excuse for turning someone into street pizza is “I had my blue lights and sirens on”
Per Boy Scout, Crown Vics are indeed magical. Few other vehicles can hold two duffles of equipment, M14 rifle, shotgun, MP5, cooler for Mr. Pibb and Rip Its, and be so sturdy. Especially a V8.
Still. I hate chases. First one was fun when I was a stupid kid. Once I grew up, it made me sick.
I think people are reading too much into the “ramifications” of it all. Nobody is getting away with a damn thing. It’s just....anyone who has driven around Atlanta during the day on surface streets will tell you that it doesn’t lend itself to chases with the congestion. Plus they don’t really train you. GSP has its own EVOC which is far more forgiving than standard EVOC snd they hide behind State Sovereignty a lot.
So trust me, ultimately nothing will change
I had a Crown Vic for my first year and a half and I was the only one assigned to it. I loved it until I got in an Explorer regularly. Wow I didn't even notice my back hurt until I had a car that drove, well, like a car. They're faster too but soul less with no personality. Every police car is a maintenance hog after too many years on the road.
I agree with the Chief's statement though. I mean, shes flat out right. Why the hell should they care when people get PR'd out on felony charges or minimum bond on shootings and homicides?
Yeah the justice system sucks but I don't think it's on the enforcement end. Our court systems blow. Plus county to county you never know what you're gonna get. Ex. If you run on foot here, it's a 2 year felony but theres places that won't charge that unless there is injury to an officer even though that is not a requirement for R&O. I had to run some dude down with an armed robbery warrant from a neighboring jurisdiction and he did 90 days for the RA since it was in a softer gentler county and like 400+ days for the R&O in the one "tough on crime."
It's a mess and there is no right answer for pursuit policies. Some people run cause they're stupid but some run cause they're bad guys. I've got into a couple over some chincey violations but they were out in the sticks late at night with no traffic. That said, there's not an arrest stat in the world worth dying over. Or killing an innocent party.
This is not the first time APD has made this policy.
The first time I recall was late 70's, early 80's back when I was still doing 2 way radio work. City of Atl was one of our biggest customers.
The policy was a big uproar then as it is now.
Chases are NOT fun. My ass was sucking seat and I was praying the whole way gone.
I sorta agree here. Too many resources to use to not wreck out or worse injure an innocent.
Never again.
THAT is why I don't have an issue with the Atlanta chief doing this. I don't care one bit if the perps get killed. I don't wanna see the cops get hurt or killed. But first and foremost I don't want to see someone totally uninvolved, in the wrong place at the wrong time, lose their life as a result of a high-speed chase.
Like someone mentioned above, we're not too far off from having a drone be able to follow the perp almost indefinitely.
A few years ago not far from where I live there was a high-speed chase that went onto the interstate. The perps were teenagers and they wrecked and were killed (two of them). The families boo-hoo'd about it and my only thought was "F**k your punk-ass kids, fortunately no one innocent died".
dwhitehorne
01-09-20, 17:13
I understand the liabilities and no chases but no one does any police work anymore. We just switched over to violent felonies only. The bad guys you want to hammer always run now and nothing ever happens.
Your average citizen pulls over for the lights and you feel guilty writing them a coupon because you know if they had just refused to stop nothing would happen to them. So the average office is in firefighter mode with the why bother attitude. We got rookies going through field training now that barely experience anything. I’m in training so I hear the officers bitch about the drunk weaving all over and can’t do anything to stop them when they refuse.
I will say I recall trying to run down a Mercedes in my 96 Caprice. The spotlight had long since flipped and at some point we were going so fast that my side window sucked out of the weather stripping channel. I remember thinking if I hit anything the car will just explode. Those days are over. David.
’m in training so I hear the officers bitch about the drunk weaving all over and can’t do anything to stop them when they refuse
I don't understand the logic behind that (a legit threat to public safety) anymore than I understood watching film footage of a chase over credit card fraud hitting triple digits through rush hour traffic.
Equally amazing are the number of police officers (and trainers) who don't understand that 'lights and sirens request the right of way, they don't grant the right of way.'
and ambulances/firetrucks... I about had a head-on with a firetruck yesterday in my semi. He was passing on a double yellow line, two lane highway, around a blind corner/hill, fully in my lane. As an ex-FF in the area, I know the chief. He got a phone call and I was actually the third guy to call. Some engineer and the officer who told him to pass are taking a little break from their duties.
Our local Troopers regularly respond at speeds in excess of 80mph, on slick roads, to automobile accidents 50 miles away that the fire department has under control. Stupid.
and ambulances/firetrucks... I about had a head-on with a firetruck yesterday in my semi. He was passing on a double yellow line, two lane highway, around a blind corner/hill, fully in my lane. As an ex-FF in the area, I know the chief. He got a phone call and I was actually the third guy to call. Some engineer and the officer who told him to pass are taking a little break from their duties.
Our local Troopers regularly respond at speeds in excess of 80mph, on slick roads, to automobile accidents 50 miles away that the fire department has under control. Stupid.
Now you got me started. I happened upon a kid who had fallen off his bike and broken his arm. I got on the radio and advised of the situation, I emphasized that the kid hadn't hit his head when he fell, was talking to me, and that he had blood flow through the extremity so the response was for a non-emergent transport. We were three blocks from an ambulance barn, six blocks from a fire station.
Next thing I hear is an ambulance running code; they arrive on scene and a couple minutes later a fire truck from another station, about 2 miles away, shows up. All this for a kid with a broken arm.
Now you got me started. I happened upon a kid who had fallen off his bike and broken his arm. I got on the radio and advised of the situation, I emphasized that the kid hadn't hit his head when he fell, was talking to me, and that he had blood flow through the extremity so the response was for a non-emergent transport. We were three blocks from an ambulance barn, six blocks from a fire station.
Next thing I hear is an ambulance running code; they arrive on scene and a couple minutes later a fire truck from another station, about 2 miles away, shows up. All this for a kid with a broken arm.
Some EMS and fire agencies have a policy to run code on all responses, even if downgraded by the caller or other responders. Because those agencies are more concerned with checking response time blocks than the safety of their employees and the public. Its a carryover from a time before training officers and Chiefs knew how to read. Many still don’t.
I’ve been working to change that culture, and its been changing. If I’m running code (or my partner), there’s a good ass reason. Now if I could just get Live PD to go away...
No pursuit no report? Right Chief? I mean after all, if it’s not worth catching the felon it isn’t worth wasting time on a report, especially if you have already labeled the courts as unwilling to do anything....
Sarcasm mode off, when are we going to hold the POS responsible who actually commit the crimes? The idea that felons will simply not endanger anyone because you don’t engage in a vehicle pursuit is obscene. I’ve seen PDs talk about outlawing foot pursuits (seriously) for the same reasons as car chases. All this line of logic leads to is suspects being more willing to flee.
What a car chase DOES do is open up the larger possibility that joe white middle class citizen is more likely to get injured as the felon races back to the ghetto or trailer park.
Hold the criminals accountable. I’m more worried about a drunk lawyer or other “professional” hitting me on the road than I am a police chase, and the stats back it up.
Just a flip side to the “no pursuit coin”.
I’m more worried about a drunk lawyer or other “professional” hitting me on the road than I am a police chase, and the stats back it up.
Yes it does. The main drunk driving accident group is 30 to 60 year old males(in any of the 5 year brackets), but most of the propaganda is focused on teen drunk driving.
https://i.imgur.com/VnQ2CNW.gif
Fleeing and eluding in and of itself is not a felony.
It's a felony in Indiana all day long.
It's a felony in Indiana all day long.
And I’m happy for you but we are discussing Georgia
Outlander Systems
01-10-20, 09:12
Hol up.
I can LEGALLY run from the cops in GA?!?!?!
And I’m happy for you but we are discussing Georgia
Seems silly to actually make an announcement on the policy. Why not make the changes internally and not broadcast it. Then its just a rumor that the police may not engage in a chase instead of a sound bite from an official.
The drunk driving examples are good reason why there shouldnt be a blanket "no pursuit" policy. Some nuance is necessary.
Sent from my SM-J727T using Tapatalk
Hol up.
I can LEGALLY run from the cops in GA?!?!?!
No. It will be a High Misdemeanor and you will get your license suspended and probably yo ass whupped. ;)
I just said it wasn’t a Felony in and of itself.
Seems silly to actually make an announcement on the policy. Why not make the changes internally and not broadcast it. Then its just a rumor that the police may not engage in a chase instead of a sound bite from an official.
The drunk driving examples are good reason why there shouldnt be a blanket "no pursuit" policy. Some nuance is necessary.
Sent from my SM-J727T using Tapatalk
Because by doing a Presser the public cannot come back and whine about them not doing a chase
ETA this needs more airplay
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8
The drunk driving examples are good reason why there shouldnt be a blanket "no pursuit" policy. Some nuance is necessary.
Sent from my SM-J727T using Tapatalk
I have to wonder if in at least some instances it isn't a sour grapes kind of thing over opposition to pursuits emanating from something of no immediate threat, such as the 100 mph pursuit over credit card fraud footage I mentioned earlier.
Don’t confuse “following” with “chasing”
You can very much keep eyes on target without getting into a screaming pursuit at high speed.
I mean, this isn’t either/or and veteran officers know this. Following and keeping distance with Due Regard doesn’t violate No Chase.
Chases are very much detailed in what they are and are not.
You can be following someone and attempting to stop them without it being a “chase”.
A ‘Chase’ is where you are going as fast as the perp and trying to keep up as he is pulling out all the stops, disregarding traffic control, high speed, weaving, aggressive driving, and so on.
A lot of Chases usually end in wrecks if there is no attempt to stop via spikes or PIT. Most officers now, aside from Troopers, are not trained in PIT maneuver. It’s a very specific skill that has to meet several requirements to be deemed as relatively ’safe’/ Less Lethal. The days of ramming cars and demolition derby are gone.
A DUI you cannot ignore but again you have a radio, you have a tag reader, you have a lot of tools.
Nobody wants to accept that this is a thinking man’s game.
This isn’t like where two black guys run out a bank with UZIs and bags of money with dollar signs and Beagle Boys masks and get in a Subaru and start Tokyo Drifting away at 90 MPH and the cops have to say “Well gee shucks. They sure showed us!”
That’s rather naive and Arfcom level of critical thinking
No pursuit no report? Right Chief? I mean after all, if it’s not worth catching the felon it isn’t worth wasting time on a report, especially if you have already labeled the courts as unwilling to do anything....
Sarcasm mode off, when are we going to hold the POS responsible who actually commit the crimes? The idea that felons will simply not endanger anyone because you don’t engage in a vehicle pursuit is obscene. I’ve seen PDs talk about outlawing foot pursuits (seriously) for the same reasons as car chases. All this line of logic leads to is suspects being more willing to flee.
What a car chase DOES do is open up the larger possibility that joe white middle class citizen is more likely to get injured as the felon races back to the ghetto or trailer park.
Hold the criminals accountable. I’m more worried about a drunk lawyer or other “professional” hitting me on the road than I am a police chase, and the stats back it up.
Just a flip side to the “no pursuit coin”.
So just what do you know about vehicular pursuits? How much actual non-sterile environment high-speed/response driver's training have you had? You may be the outlier, but most cops, hell most drivers have an over-inflated appreciation of their actual driving ability.
According to FARS, about 300 people die each year as a result of chases. About a third of them are persons uninvolved in the chase.
Lets put that in perspective. In the decade 2009 - 2018 there were 510 officers feloniously killed, or about 51 a year, compared to about 100 uninvolved third parties in pursuits. We, in LE, certainly get vocal about those deaths and take protective measures which sometimes results in new equipment and tactics.
Understanding the circumstances surrounding pursuits and the resulting deaths, injuries and damages is an important part of building pursuit policies and decision making by the officer.
Sadly many officers don't make good go/no go decisions involving pursuits without a policy to guide them. This is simply because they get caught up in the emotional aspects of the pursuit, often taking it personally. Their thinking becomes more simplistic often focusing on simply catching the fleeing vehicle rather than focusing on how to do so safely and tactically.
Just as sadly, we could change this with EVOC training that focused on response driving rather than wasting time on many of the 'standard' exercises.
Don’t confuse “following” with “chasing”
Nobody wants to accept that this is a thinking man’s game.
That’s rather naive and Arfcom level of critical thinking
Nailed it.
dwhitehorne
01-10-20, 18:09
Don’t confuse “following” with “chasing”
You can very much keep eyes on target without getting into a screaming pursuit at high speed.
Following is over too. If the words "I've got one refusing" or something to that effect come over the radio, the new general order states the shift supervisor or shift commander "shall" terminate in cases that are not violent felonies. Terminate is defined in the G.O. as to reduce speed and proceed in the opposite direction giving the exact location you turn around. I'm hearing about is officers still wanting to work are not talking on the radio like they should. David
john armond
01-10-20, 18:33
Following is over too. If the words "I've got one refusing" or something to that effect come over the radio, the new general order states the shift supervisor or shift commander "shall" terminate in cases that are not violent felonies. Terminate is defined in the G.O. as to reduce speed and proceed in the opposite direction giving the exact location you turn around. I'm hearing about is officers still wanting to work are not talking on the radio like they should. David
A department I worked for had that same termination policy. Officers chased a vehicle, can’t remember what for, chase was called off rather quickly though. Squad turned off lights/siren, and proceeded to do a u-turn and drive the opposite direction of the initial chase. A few miles later the suspect vehicle was still traveling as if they were being chased and crashed, resulting in the deaths of several teens in the car. The police, even though they had called the chase off, and the closest squad was more than 5 miles away from the suspect’s accident scene, was still vilified for causing the teen deaths. The rational from the press and public was; if the cops hadn’t started the chase in the first place, the kids wouldn’t have been driving that fast and crashed.
Unfortunately it seem like it’s usually a lose-lose situation no matter what is done.
Following is over too. If the words "I've got one refusing" or something to that effect come over the radio, the new general order states the shift supervisor or shift commander "shall" terminate in cases that are not violent felonies. Terminate is defined in the G.O. as to reduce speed and proceed in the opposite direction giving the exact location you turn around. I'm hearing about is officers still wanting to work are not talking on the radio like they should. David
#this
Following is over too. If the words "I've got one refusing" or something to that effect come over the radio, the new general order states the shift supervisor or shift commander "shall" terminate in cases that are not violent felonies. Terminate is defined in the G.O. as to reduce speed and proceed in the opposite direction giving the exact location you turn around. I'm hearing about is officers still wanting to work are not talking on the radio like they should. David
Like I said. Thinking Man’s Game.
What’s that word? ART-iculate.
“Subject appears to be looking for a better place to stop”
It’s not a lie.....
Besides, I just need to know the LKA to the vehicle. I got more games than Nintendo
Why not just use new/old technology to end chases?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edmmg9Zf51E
Here in Phoenix we're have been using the Grsppler for a couple years now. It's been very successful. There is actually flir video of our SWAT team using one and ending up shooting an armed robbery suspect, that made national news a while back.
I’m being a bit facetious but you don’t have to chase or use a gadget to disable a vehicle...
https://savagedeltagreen.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/mag10roadbloacker1.jpg
Just saying....
10 gauge slugs tend to destroy engines
https://youtu.be/lqTE8qPbDk8
1:30ish mark
https://youtu.be/lqTE8qPbDk8
1:30ish mark
Tl;Dindu
https://youtu.be/lqTE8qPbDk8
1:30ish mark
Well, IMHO, that places an unacceptable risk of death or great bodily harm to the officer into play.
As far as the shooting, it was certain that he was at least in the vehicle at the scene of the armed robbery, wasn't it? Armed robbery is a crime that in most jurisdictions involves the threat of death or great bodily harm.
In these circumstances, was it unreasonable for the officers to have probable cause these folks had committed an armed robbery, and to believe that a person running from the vehicle was a person who would be a continued threat unless arrested without delay?
Pretty sure he pressed all the Garner buttons.
Do you know why they settled?
Do you know why they settled?
I’m going to guess it was easier and cheaper. Write an insurance cheque and drive on.
Well, IMHO, that places an unacceptable risk of death or great bodily harm to the officer into play.
As far as the shooting, it was certain that he was at least in the vehicle at the scene of the armed robbery, wasn't it? Armed robbery is a crime that in most jurisdictions involves the threat of death or great bodily harm.
In these circumstances, was it unreasonable for the officers to have probable cause these folks had committed an armed robbery, and to believe that a person running from the vehicle was a person who would be a continued threat unless arrested without delay?
Pretty sure he pressed all the Garner buttons.
Do you know why they settled?
I hadnt even heard they settled that. But the city settles out most of these lawsuits. Between the cost of the trial, the possibility of losing, ect... it's usually cheaper to settle.
That robbery crew was suspected in a few dozen of these types of robberies in Phoenix and in a couple of the suburb cities.
I hadnt even heard they settled that. But the city settles out most of these lawsuits. Between the cost of the trial, the possibility of losing, ect... it's usually cheaper to settle.
That robbery crew was suspected in a few dozen of these types of robberies in Phoenix and in a couple of the suburb cities.
I thought video said six million settlement.
Anyone hurt is those robberies? Escalating violence? From just watching the video seems the family had little or no case against the city for wrongful death.
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