View Full Version : Out of Spec LMT Lower! (Fixed, sort of... Post #18, Mfg outed Post #22)
Anyone ever send back an out of spec lower to the manufacture?
I bought a top tier AR lower and the magazine well is too tight. You can barely fit a loaded magazine in it! What is the usual fix for this? Has anybody ever sent a lower back for repairs or replacement? I’ll be giving the manufacturer a call tomorrow and see what they advise. I’m bummed, I had great plans for this lower. This is the first time I use this manufacturer, definitely the most expensive AR lower I’ve ever bought, not impressed at all.
Thanks for any and all comments advice.
Five_Point_Five_Six
01-07-20, 20:36
If it's from Titusville FL, there was a batch with out of spec mag wells last year. They will take care of it.
Also, forum rules dictate you need to need to contact the manufacturer before making these posts unless they've changed it.
Also, forum rules dictate you need to need to contact the manufacturer before making these posts unless they've changed it.
Thanks for the reply.
I agree with not outing the manufacturer before giving them a chance to fix it, hence no manufacturer name given. I’m interested if others have the same issue and what their experienced was in getting it fixed.
Anyone ever send back an out of spec lower to the manufacture?
I bought a top tier AR lower and the magazine well is too tight. You can barely fit a loaded magazine in it! What is the usual fix for this? Has anybody ever sent a lower back for repairs or replacement? I’ll be giving the manufacturer a call tomorrow and see what they advise. I’m bummed, I had great plans for this lower. This is the first time I use this manufacturer, definitely the most expensive AR lower I’ve ever bought, not impressed at all.
Thanks for any and all comments advice.
No, I have not experienced this. That said, I hope you try more than 1 mag, or measure it before assuming its out of spec.
If its a good (hell, even a bad one) company, they will take care if you if its out of spec.
What hangs up? Aluminum GI type mag or Magpul magazine, both?
No, I have not experienced this. That said, I hope you try more than 1 mag, or measure it before assuming its out of spec.
If its a good (hell, even a bad one) company, they will take care if you if its out of spec.
The Lower in question measures 0.897” on the front and 0.899” in the rear. My BCM and Aero Precision lowers measure 0.903” all the way around. It doesn’t seem like much but a huge difference in fit. There is only 0.006” difference!
I did try 4 or 5 USGI magazines, they all fit very snug. Of the Magpul 2 take effort to insert.
Bought a Noveske Gen 2 Flared lower back in 2012, went to put an upper on it, pivot pin hole was off center, had me send it in with the upper, replaced it with a matched set. Any decent manufacturer should take care of you.
Both my Noveskes have been tight, but only to the point that it hampered drop free, not insertion. The company should take care of it, if not, definitely let us know.
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Did you build the lower or was it assembled by the manufacturer? Sometimes the mag release can be a bit too tight and needs to be unthreaded one or two rotations to seat and drop the magazine.
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nightchief
01-08-20, 08:02
I have been through this situation with lowers twice in the last few years. Both companies I dealt with handled it by replacing the lower with another that was in spec. The only "hassle" is having to do another transfer since the serial number is different. In my last experience, the company paid for all shipping and the transfer fee. Things like this happen, but the really good companies prove themselves with how they handle it.
Good luck. Please let us know how it goes either way, as manufacturers need "good press", as much as critical press.
I had one with a REALLY tight magwell; the company paid for shipping both ways and reworked the well and fixed it up. Since it was the same lower I didn't have to do another transfer.
0.90 seems to be the magic number to drop free all mags.
I called the manufacture, it looks like they don't have any interest in helping me. They told me that if I can insert the magazine and remove it there is no issues with the lower. They broach cut their magazine wells to MilSpec and drop free is not MilSpec! He then transferred my call to a voicemail box where I left a message. So now I wait to see if they help me out.
I shoot with 3 AR owners of the same manufacturer and none have a magazine wells as tight as my lower.
Well if they don't have any interest in helping I'd say name them, that's on them then.
You'e done your bit.
Now you can help out the community and name them so others don't have to share your experience.
I called the manufacture, it looks like they don't have any interest in helping me. They told me that if I can insert the magazine and remove it there is no issues with the lower. They broach cut their magazine wells to MilSpec and drop free is not MilSpec! He then transferred my call to a voicemail box where I left a message. So now I wait to see if they help me out.
I shoot with 3 AR owners of the same manufacturer and none have a magazine wells as tight as my lower.
Take pics or video showing the caliper in use, as well as the mags not dropping free even when getting wiggled around. I was doing T&E with a company awhile back and a hammer was following. There was some great confusion as to whether it was actually happening, or if I was doing something wrong. Seriously. I took video showing it, and all the dumb questions stopped.
Take video, upload it to youtube and sent a link to the persons involved in the company. Next, post it here so people can give their thoughts as to whether it is something unrealistic on your end.
When you send the youtube link, send the link to this thread as well. Being open and transparent with companies goes a lot farther than being one of the turds who is trying to internet blackmail a company to get free stuff.
The Lower in question measures 0.897” on the front and 0.899” in the rear. My BCM and Aero Precision lowers measure 0.903” all the way around. It doesn’t seem like much but a huge difference in fit. There is only 0.006” difference!
I did try 4 or 5 USGI magazines, they all fit very snug. Of the Magpul 2 take effort to insert.
What mil spec aluminum magazines did you try? USGI is a pretty broad statement. MagPul isn't mil spec and doesn't count.
Thanks to all who offered help. It's now fixed, sort of...
After getting no where with the manufacture I called the shop where I bought the lower. They were much more helpful. They recommended I run a few magazines through the magazine well in hopes that the anodizing would smooth itself out, after about an hour it did. I also wrapped the magazine in 1000 grip sandpaper and ran it through a few times. There are a few high spots that now have aluminum exposed, but that ok by me. That's something I should have needed to have done but none the less I did. The fitment is now acceptable to me. So I guess all is well that ends well.
The shop where I bought the lower from is now checking all there lowers from this specific manufacture to make sure other do not have to do what I did. Others may not want to bother with a super tight magazine well. If anyone is interested in who the manufacture is PM me.
Five_Point_Five_Six
01-09-20, 08:33
Thanks to all who offered help. It's now fixed, sort of...
After getting no where with the manufacture I called the shop where I bought the lower. They were much more helpful. They recommended I run a few magazines through the magazine well in hopes that the anodizing would smooth itself out, after about an hour it did. I also wrapped the magazine in 1000 grip sandpaper and ran it through a few times. There are a few high spots that now have aluminum exposed, but that ok by me. That's something I should have needed to have done but none the less I did. The fitment is now acceptable to me. So I guess all is well that ends well.
The shop where I bought the lower from is now checking all there lowers from this specific manufacture to make sure other do not have to do what I did. Others may not want to bother with a super tight magazine well. If anyone is interested in who the manufacture is PM me.
You're free to tell us now that you've contacted them and they were of no help.
I see you changed the name of the thread. This is not a (Fixed, sort of) situation IMO. Its Total BS and in no way should a lower like that be sold to the public. I think you are doing the forum a disservice by not publishing the manufacturer name.
There is an ongoing argument that Magpul mags dropping free is not to spec (even though they are now issued) but almost all manufacturers have changed their magwell to accommodate them. But to have to use sandpaper on GI mags to get them to be inserted easily let alone pull out is ridiculous! Their workmanship is shotty at best and then for the CS to blow you off is totally unacceptable. I dont care who the manufacturer is.
Thanks to all who offered help. It's now fixed, sort of...
After getting no where with the manufacture I called the shop where I bought the lower. They were much more helpful. They recommended I run a few magazines through the magazine well in hopes that the anodizing would smooth itself out, after about an hour it did. I also wrapped the magazine in 1000 grip sandpaper and ran it through a few times. There are a few high spots that now have aluminum exposed, but that ok by me. That's something I should have needed to have done but none the less I did. The fitment is now acceptable to me. So I guess all is well that ends well.
The shop where I bought the lower from is now checking all there lowers from this specific manufacture to make sure other do not have to do what I did. Others may not want to bother with a super tight magazine well. If anyone is interested in who the manufacture is PM me.
Nah, that's B.S. you're cleared hot to put them on blast.
I see you changed the name of the thread. This is not a (Fixed, sort of) situation IMO. Its Total BS and in no way should a lower like that be sold to the public. I think you are doing the forum a disservice by not publishing the manufacturer name.
There is an ongoing argument that Magpul mags dropping free is not to spec (even though they are now issued) but almost all manufacturers have changed their magwell to accommodate them. But to have to use sandpaper on GI mags to get them to be inserted easily let alone pull out is ridiculous! Their workmanship is shotty at best and then for the CS to blow you off is totally unacceptable. I dont care who the manufacturer is.
Very well then.. The lower in question is a Lewis Machine and Tool (LMT). Needless to say I will not buy any more of their product. If this lower magazine well is truly MilSpec its on the tight side. It will be built as a range toy.
had the same problem with an anderson lower. eight out of ten mags (different brands) were too tight. sent it back and anderson sent a new one. easy fix.
OP, was this a stripped lower or a complete lower?
OP, was this a stripped lower or a complete lower?
Stripped lower.
Marked:
MULTI-CAL
DEDENDER 2000
SER. LMT88XXX
It's the newer ones with the LMT "Swoosh" above the "LMT" not the complete oval around the the "LMT".
As noted in another thread, my experience was with a different problem with a semi-stripped (MARS) lower, as well. CS explicitly stated that a safety wasn’t checked since it wasn’t part of a complete rifle. The problem was the most basic QC, a burr on the safety tube that prevented proper functioning. (My situation was resolved “OK,” by sending me a blemished but operational safety to replace the nonfunctional one.)
I think this serves as a word of caution regarding buying at least lower receivers from LMT. Judging from CS explanation, complete rifles would almost certainly be held to a quality standard; I would hope complete lowers and uppers as well.
As noted in another thread, my experience was with a different problem with a semi-stripped (MARS) lower, as well. CS explicitly stated that a safety wasn’t checked since it wasn’t part of a complete rifle. The problem was the most basic QC, a burr on the safety tube that prevented proper functioning. (My situation was resolved “OK,” by sending me a blemished but operational safety to replace the nonfunctional one.)
I think this serves as a word of caution regarding buying at least lower receivers from LMT. Judging from CS explanation, complete rifles would almost certainly be held to a quality standard; I would hope complete lowers and uppers as well.
I have built a few AR's using stripped lowers, Anderson, Aero Precision and PSA, but never encountered such a tight magazine well as in the LMT. A friend of my gave me a tip, take a couple magazines and ask if you can try them on lowers you are interested in buying and if they fit to your liking buy them, if not don't. That seems simple enough.
I have built a few AR's using stripped lowers, Anderson, Aero Precision and PSA, but never encountered such a tight magazine well as in the LMT. A friend of my gave me a tip, take a couple magazines and ask if you can try them on lowers you are interested in buying and if they fit to your liking buy them, if not don't. That seems simple enough.
Thanks for the info. LMT is typically regarded as a Tier-1 manufacturer. I was surprised magwell was tight on it. I bet they have a magwell gauge to check go/no-go. But I really liked your trick with the sandpaper - good to know in case people run into the same issue.
As noted in another thread, my experience was with a different problem with a semi-stripped (MARS) lower, as well. CS explicitly stated that a safety wasn’t checked since it wasn’t part of a complete rifle. The problem was the most basic QC, a burr on the safety tube that prevented proper functioning. (My situation was resolved “OK,” by sending me a blemished but operational safety to replace the nonfunctional one.)
I think this serves as a word of caution regarding buying at least lower receivers from LMT. Judging from CS explanation, complete rifles would almost certainly be held to a quality standard; I would hope complete lowers and uppers as well.I ordered a LMT stripped upper receiver from a well known vendor this past month and had issues with it.
The receiver had a few different issues. I installed the stripped upper on my MARS lower as a pre assembly test fit, and the first hint that something was off was the upper receiver had a distinct lip on both sides of the receiver overhanging the lower receiver by about 1/16 of an inch. Annoying, but I could live with it. I tried to assemble the upper and the gas tube would not insert into the gas tube opening at the front of the receiver. I had already used the tube/block/barrel assembly with a stripped BCM upper previously, so I know it was the size of the hole on the receiver causing the issue. On top of that, I decided to check the fitment of my RDS mount and irons onto the top rail, and the mount and sight required pressure to get over the lip of the picatinny slots, removing anodizing in the process.
I ended up returning it to the vendor I ordered it from for a refund.
The LMT MARS lower I have also had an issue with the trigger guard. It shipped with a flat milspec style trigger guard, and the aluminum one I replaced it with would not fit. One of the ears on the lower receiver was slightly larger than the other, and prevented the trigger guard from sliding into place for proper roll pin alignment. I ended up using a small file to remove the excess material and it now works. I just attributed it to tolerance stacking between manufacturers, but now I'm thinking it may have been the lower receiver.
Pretty disappointing.
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I ordered a LMT stripped upper receiver from a well known vendor this past month and had issues with it.
The receiver had a few different issues. I installed the stripped upper on my MARS lower as a pre assembly test fit, and the first hint that something was off was the upper receiver had a distinct lip on both sides of the receiver overhanging the lower receiver by about 1/16 of an inch. Annoying, but I could live with it. I tried to assemble the upper and the gas tube would not insert into the gas tube opening at the front of the receiver. I had already used the tube/block/barrel assembly with a stripped BCM upper previously, so I know it was the size of the hole on the receiver causing the issue. On top of that, I decided to check the fitment of my RDS mount and irons onto the top rail, and the mount and sight required pressure to get over the lip of the picatinny slots, removing anodizing in th
e process.
I ended up returning it to the vendor I ordered it from for a refund.
The LMT MARS lower I have also had an issue with the trigger guard. It shipped with a flat milspec style trigger guard, and the aluminum one I replaced it with would not fit. One of the ears on the lower receiver was slightly larger than the other, and prevented the trigger guard from sliding into place for proper roll pin alignment. I ended up using a small file to remove the excess material and it now works. I just attributed it to tolerance stacking between manufacturers, but now I'm thinking it may have been the lower receiver.
Pretty disappointing.
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I had the same issue with A KAC trigger guard with my LMT MARS lower. It would not align.
As info, my MARS did not ship with a trigger guard, as it was stripped.
A Magpul polymer worked fine, and I just replaced that with an LMT winter trigger guard, also (as one would hope) fine.
I just brought home a second MARS lower (because, at the end of the day, the are truly awesome), so when I get around to putting it together, I’ll share feedback.
My kac trigger guard would not align on my mars
I'll be looking in the EE for firesold LMT MARS lowers :)
I had a Seekins lower that they opened up and refinished. Not a huge project for a top tier bunch.
PB
So, I bought 2 MARS ambi lowers stripped, and I SBR'd one. I just went back to check the lowers with Gen 2 Pmags and my SBR will not drop the Gen 2 mag and it is pretty snug .My other lower does it with no problem.
My SBR lower is also the same lower that a KAC aluminum trigger guard will not fit.
This sucks....
This is going to turn into the super dramatic BCM PMAG thread... Maybe not quite.
Since I might as well participate, just pulled the new MARS-L lower out, both loaded D&H and unloaded PMAG M3 (dirty, grass-stained) lock and drop free from the semi-stripped lower without the costa flip.
Beatifically finish, too. Glad “workmanship” has a check mark.
https://i.imgur.com/aRMMYVa.jpg
This is going to turn into the super dramatic BCM PMAG thread... Maybe not quite.
Since I might as well participate, just pulled the new MARS-L lower out, both loaded D&H and unloaded PMAG M3 (dirty, grass-stained) lock and drop free from the semi-stripped lower without the costa flip.
Beatifically finish, too. Glad “workmanship” has a check mark.
Do you have a Gen 2 mag to try?
Yes. Seemed not as loose as Gen 3, but goes in smoothly and drops free. Loaded, didn’t have an empty on hand.
bamashooter
01-10-20, 05:00
My observations over the years:
Tier-1 equipment is perfect and should not be challenged in any way. It's considered firearm blasphemy in many circles.
Those unique individuals w/ the knowledge, skills, and abilities to designate a firearm "Tier-1" are indeed special and we should hang on to their every word.
My observations over the years:
Tier-1 equipment is perfect and should not be challenged in any way. It's considered firearm blasphemy in many circles.
Those unique individuals w/ the knowledge, skills, and abilities to designate a firearm "Tier-1" are indeed special and we should hang on to their every word.
This....
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Before this thread spirals into absurdity:
I’m one of those guys that collects stripped lowers from a variety of brands. I’ve noticed that stripped lowers from several well-regarded brands can have tight magwells and won't drop P-Mags. A few won’t drop gray aluminum mags borrowed from Uncle Sam. These include KAC, Sionics, and others. I’ve gotten into the habit of putting a P-Mag in as soon as I get my hands on them, before I install parts, to see if it’ll drop.
I’m not sure why this problem is so common, but I’ve had it less with Aero and Zev than with “top” brands.
Sample of one, but my LMT Defender lower S/N LMT83XXX will allow a Gen 3 Pmag to drop free, but not a Gen 2. I assume a metal mag would not be a problem, but don't have any handy to check right now. The lower does not have much use. I guess I am dumb, it doesn't really worry me.
I will say Pmag of all sorts drop freely from my other AR lowers.
Andy
CESwartz07
01-10-20, 07:14
My KAC complete Ambi lower had trouble dropping free Gen3 Pmags, but over time and making adjustments to the mag release and the problem has gone away. I don’t think it was a machining issue.
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Well, I was smart and SBRd my LMT before checking all these issues. Thankful for this thread though, because now I will get sandpaper to fix it :)
Ok, I stubbed my toe and it's your fault.
Get your marbles folks.
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