View Full Version : Maxim Defense PDX thoughts? Or similar?
Who owns or has shot one? How do they rate relative to other compacts like Sig and others? Or put another way, with a ~$2K budget, what rifle caliber 'pistol' would you get and why?
I'm unconvinced the 5.56 and 9mm options are as good as a 300BO with such a short barrel. Am I wrong? My requirements are something with enough power and penetration to kill a feral hog at 50 yards without horrendous concussion and bark. I should note that I have NFA so, I am well versed in those options but, I really need a rifle that is technically a 'pistol' (thanks to some bizarre local laws) as I'm not walking around with a 16" rifle.
TIA,
Sid
p.s. I'm in a rural Texas area generally with frequent travel to Oklahoma and have a passion for eliminating feral hogs. While I don't ride ATVs with my sister very often, she has had some run-ins with criminal drug elements so, that is a far distant concern and one that generally has no influence on this purchase. Suppressor compatibility is assumed with any purchase.
I can't get positive about ultra short 5.56 barrels. The velocity just isn't there for decent stopping power. The 7.62x39 is different, but mags are not known for being cheap, reliable, and plentiful.
With the 300BLK cheap steel cased ammo arriving, I'm not sure I would veer away from 300BLK. I know that personally I'll be relegating a few 300 URGs of mine to being filthy dirty pigs which do nothing but shoot steel ammo.
I can't get positive about ultra short 5.56 barrels. The velocity just isn't there for decent stopping power...
Yes, at 5.5" in the released upper, 5.56 to me is a very poor choice. To be honest, I find a ~10.5" 5.56 upper to be very harsh and marginally effective for most things other than hard-core door kickers or a range toy. Personally, 11.5" is as short as I will go but, I really prefer something in the 12.5"~13.7" lengths. My 14.5" mid-length gas version is much nicer, especially with a can but, at this point it so far out from my need it is almost irrelevant.
I reached out to Maxim Defense and I'm waiting for a full reply but, it looks like they have an 8.5" barrel option coming which would be a really nice option for 300BO with a very minimal increase in overall length. I'm not sure how it would do with high-velocity loads but, subs should be pretty good for what I'm looking for.
The Sig 'Copperheads' and their other various options are intriguing but, they seem to be a bit proprietary which is a turn off to me. B&T has been an on again off again attraction to me. In the $2K range though, I might need to consider them further.
For sub-10" barrels I'd have to say 300BLK is the way to go. The 5.56 out of uber short barrels has too much blast and largely renders the 5.56 impotent (wouldn't want to get shot with one mind you, but you get the drift). Anything longer than 10" I'd opt for 5.56.
I divested myself of 300BLK last year. Now I am looking at having Rudy from Macon Armory make me a direct impingement 357Sig upper with a 10" barrel to make a pistol out of. Yeah, I know 300BLK would outperform it but I'm thinking of PDW-type ranges, like inside 150yds at most. Anything further out I'll go with 5.56 all day long. The idea of a .35 caliber Gold Dot bullet (like from Underwood) hitting ~ 1700+fps from the 10" barrel should cover that PDW requirement I want. For a pistol caliber setup the 357Sig (if loaded hot like Underwood) should have a fairly "flat" trajectory out to my 100-150yd parameter.
For sub-10" barrels I'd have to say 300BLK is the way to go. The 5.56 out of uber short barrels has too much blast and largely renders the 5.56 impotent (wouldn't want to get shot with one mind you, but you get the drift). Anything longer than 10" I'd opt for 5.56.
I divested myself of 300BLK last year. Now I am looking at having Rudy from Macon Armory make me a direct impingement 357Sig upper with a 10" barrel to make a pistol out of. Yeah, I know 300BLK would outperform it but I'm thinking of PDW-type ranges, like inside 150yds at most. Anything further out I'll go with 5.56 all day long. The idea of a .35 caliber Gold Dot bullet (like from Underwood) hitting ~ 1700+fps from the 10" barrel should cover that PDW requirement I want. For a pistol caliber setup the 357Sig (if loaded hot like Underwood) should have a fairly "flat" trajectory out to my 100-150yd parameter.
A 9x25 Dillion if you handload is a hot ticket for 9mm. Of course, you could do a 9mm Win Mag or a 9x23 from our EU friends who can't own 'military' calibers. I seriously considered getting a factory Colt 9x23 1911 many years ago but, I think 38 Super eventually killed it off.
Myself, in the PCC realm, it would be 10mm or 10mm Mag. The old Norma loads would really put a hurt on things. Newer 10mm not so much (almost 40S&W in many cases).
A 9x25 Dillion if you handload is a hot ticket for 9mm. Of course, you could do a 9mm Win Mag or a 9x23 from our EU friends who can't own 'military' calibers. I seriously considered getting a factory Colt 9x23 1911 many years ago but, I think 38 Super eventually killed it off.
Myself, in the PCC realm, it would be 10mm or 10mm Mag. The old Norma loads would really put a hurt on things. Newer 10mm not so much (almost 40S&W in many cases).
Gotta look at Underwood or Buffalo Bore. They load ALL calibers like they should be!
Reason I am leaning towards 357Sig instead of 10mm is that with a narrower, lighter bullet and a tad more speed than 10mm from a PCC it will make for a flatter shooting weapon. No doubt 300BLK eclipses both for a PDW platform but having gotten out of 300BLK last year I just can't admit maybe I made a mistake and restock!
Gotta look at Underwood or Buffalo Bore. They load ALL calibers like they should be!
Reason I am leaning towards 357Sig instead of 10mm is that with a narrower, lighter bullet and a tad more speed than 10mm from a PCC it will make for a flatter shooting weapon. No doubt 300BLK eclipses both for a PDW platform but having gotten out of 300BLK last year I just can't admit maybe I made a mistake and restock!
Last year Ammo prices were harsh on the 300 BLK, if its going to be the same price as Wolf AK Ammo, it changes things. I still think it might be cheaper in the long run to look at a 300 barrel.... especially if you compare it to 357. 10mm has some nice Ammo options, and prices I’ve seen recently have been $300 for a case of a thousand rounds, which seemed much lower than I would have thought.
Something else to think about is the 357 has no where near the R&D in the PCC game as most other calibers. I think even 10mm has seen a lot more PCC platforms.
. Now I am looking at having Rudy from Macon Armory make me a direct impingement 357Sig upper with a 10" barrel to make a pistol out of. Yeah, I know 300BLK would outperform it but I'm thinking of PDW-type ranges, like inside 150yds at most. Anything further out I'll go with 5.56 all day long. The idea of a .35 caliber Gold Dot bullet (like from Underwood) hitting ~ 1700+fps from the 10" barrel should cover that PDW requirement I want. For a pistol caliber setup the 357Sig (if loaded hot like Underwood) should have a fairly "flat" trajectory out to my 100-150yd parameter.
Please post a review of this firearm after you get your hands on it.
Gotta look at Underwood or Buffalo Bore. They load ALL calibers like they should be!
Reason I am leaning towards 357Sig instead of 10mm is that with a narrower, lighter bullet and a tad more speed than 10mm from a PCC it will make for a flatter shooting weapon. No doubt 300BLK eclipses both for a PDW platform but having gotten out of 300BLK last year I just can't admit maybe I made a mistake and restock!
A Glock 40 (https://us.glock.com/en/pistols/g40-gen4-mos) with its 6" barrel might be a good option for you. You could also do a Glock 24 with a 357 Sig barrel. I'd think a real pistol in a pistol caliber would be more practical for everyday use over an AR-15 in a pistol caliber. To me, the real advantage of a 'pistol' AR-15 is the use of rifle calibers.
A 7.62x51 AR-10 'pistol' is going to be very heavy, especially on the barrel end in a ~14.5" length but, a 350Legend pistol could prove to be an interesting combination. A 7.62x40WT or 300HAM'R might be alternative options for you but, ammo cost will be ~$1 a round. How many rounds a year would you shoot in a year? Would this really be a significant factor if you 'trained' mainly with a standard AR-15 with cheap .223/5.56 ammo?
A 9x25 Dillion if you handload is a hot ticket for 9mm. Of course, you could do a 9mm Win Mag or a 9x23 from our EU friends who can't own 'military' calibers. I seriously considered getting a factory Colt 9x23 1911 many years ago but, I think 38 Super eventually killed it off.
Myself, in the PCC realm, it would be 10mm or 10mm Mag. The old Norma loads would really put a hurt on things. Newer 10mm not so much (almost 40S&W in many cases).
I know nothing about the 9x25 Dillon but tons about 9x21, 9x23 and 38 Super from my IPSC days. The loads to make major with 115s were hard on the primer pockets. Hard enough that I wouldn't shoot once loaded brass in competition. I went back to 38 Super because the brass cost half of what 9x23 did. I didn't bother to pick it up. I can't imagine getting much life out of any of the bottleneck pistol brass.
I know nothing about the 9x25 Dillon but tons about 9x21, 9x23 and 38 Super from my IPSC days. The loads to make major with 115s were hard on the primer pockets. Hard enough that I wouldn't shoot once loaded brass in competition. I went back to 38 Super because the brass cost half of what 9x23 did. I didn't bother to pick it up. I can't imagine getting much life out of any of the bottleneck pistol brass.
Absolutely, those high PSI loads are hard on the brass. In my case, when I hunt feral hogs, brass recovery is very low when I try really hard to collect them. I remember shooting with a friend near my corrals, together we shot 12 nickeled cases. After ~10 minutes while they bled out, we only found 3 cases in the grass.
So, for me at least, brass life or cost would not be a concern because I would expect to basically lose it all and shooting volume would be relatively low. More than hunting deer or elk (how many worry about collecting brass after bagging a 'trophy'?) for example but, much less than a 'match' or 'range day'. For a range toy, brass recovery is a different subject for me, usually, because my brass is more expensive (some cases are ~$3 each) or hard to form (Wildcats).
For an IPSC 'racegun', 38Super brass would be so cheap I wouldn't try to collect it at a match. Plus in the overall scheme of things, after match fees, travel, hotel and meals, etc., cheap brass recovery with worn primer pockets is like trying to save an extra napkin from a fast food place to use later.
Not to derail but 10mm in a PCC is something to take note of. The hotter rounds out of friends MP5/10 really show what the round is capable of in that platform given the limitations of a pistol round. A bit more recoil than the same gun in 9mm but not enough to make a difference, IMHO.Im thinking a 10mm Chambered in AR based PCC would probably slow or stop the demand of sub 10" 5.56 platforms like the Maxim. The Maxim "cool factor" is always there but to me it felt like a loud uncomfortable noise & flash maker.
Not to derail but 10mm in a PCC is something to take note of. The hotter rounds out of friends MP5/10 really show what the round is capable of in that platform given the limitations of a pistol round. A bit more recoil than the same gun in 9mm but not enough to make a difference, IMHO.Im thinking a 10mm Chambered in AR based PCC would probably slow or stop the demand of sub 10" 5.56 platforms like the Maxim. The Maxim "cool factor" is always there but to me it felt like a loud uncomfortable noise & flash maker.
Yes, the thread has wandered a bit from initial inquiry regarding a 300 Black Out Maxim PDX. I'm not on a two-way range in the Mid-East so the 7.62x39 has very little value to me personally.
A Glock 40 and 10mm AR-15 would be a great pair for many people looking for a self-defense and urban support firearm. It's the lack of support of 10mm AR-15's in general that I think keeps many people from buying them and, the fact 9mm AR-15's are widespread and cheap with really cheap plinking ammo. Compared to 300BO, 10mm premium ammunition is easier to find, for me at least, than 300BO and it is somewhat cheaper though not enough so to influence my purchase decision.
I'm looking at the 300BO option and think that it will have better penetration and better projectiles for hitting FERAL HOGS to not 'splash' if they hit a shoulder bone and penetrate deep enough to kill them, either DRT or somewhere to feed the coyotes if I can't follow the blood trail (I don't expect to make an ear hole shot every time :suicide2:).
The thing that brought me to Maxim Defense was their stocks so, if another manufacturer makes a good alternative to the PDX I'm certainly interested. An alternate AR-15 based option can be equipped with their stock if I decide to go another direction.
Maybe a Honey Badger?
The 508 and 510 info were just released, the pic was shown on Soldier Systems as released by Maxim Defense. This may be more in line with what you (and I) are looking for.
https://66.media.tumblr.com/a3c5751b5ab7a0251800f5726c056ea5/2b6c4bf12abc73d7-43/s1280x1920/4bddfa92480576ae225c8a252a44bfe9f117c311.jpg
Thanks Stick!
I guess that explains my difficulty calling and emailing them; SHOT SHOW! The MD:15 looks attractive with its lower price point. Is it Law Enforcement Only? Hmm ...
Looking at and researching the Q Honey Badger and Suger Weasel, I see a lot of talk about the 1x5 barrel versus the more common 1x7. Kevin indicated in what I read that 1x5 is much more accurate at longer distances than the 1x7 barrels. I could see a 1x5 barrel stabilizing subsonic heavy loads more but, at what range advantage over a 1x7 barrel? Also, wouldn't a 1x5 barrel sacrifice supersonic performance?
I guess some of this is moot if you don't want to 'mortar' in subsonic heavies. ;)
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