6.5 CM loading help [Archive] - M4Carbine.net Forums

C-grunt

01-13-20, 17:43

Im loading ammo for my 6.5 CM with a 22 inch Gradous barrel.

Loads tested were 41.5 grain and 42 grains of H4350
Each load was a Hornady once fired case (through my rifle), a 140 ELD-M, Federal Champoin large rifle primers, Full length resizing, and loaded to 2.8 COAL. All done with a Lee hand loader

The 41.5 grain load shot better accuracy but it had a SD of 19.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49381075478_f7bc041360_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2ieCVk5)2020-01-13_03-25-21 (https://flic.kr/p/2ieCVk5) by chase ditwiler (https://www.flickr.com/photos/157376915@N07/), on Flickr

I yanked one on this group but it still shot a decent group

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49381564056_a2fd2fd1b3_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2ieFqyQ)2020-01-13_03-31-10 (https://flic.kr/p/2ieFqyQ) by chase ditwiler (https://www.flickr.com/photos/157376915@N07/), on Flickr

The 42 grain load shot lower SD of 12 but would overall shoot a little less accurately and would throw a flyer every so often.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49381808566_e867b67f1c_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2ieGFfw)2020-01-13_04-35-42 (https://flic.kr/p/2ieGFfw) by chase ditwiler (https://www.flickr.com/photos/157376915@N07/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49381346978_a240157ae6_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2ieEj37)2020-01-13_04-36-00 (https://flic.kr/p/2ieEj37) by chase ditwiler (https://www.flickr.com/photos/157376915@N07/), on Flickr

This 42 grain group shot better but I had a primer that wouldn't ignite so it's only a four shot group (last of my loaded rounds)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49381537671_52db161e4c_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2ieFhHV)2020-01-13_03-24-38 (https://flic.kr/p/2ieFhHV) by chase ditwiler (https://www.flickr.com/photos/157376915@N07/), on Flickr

Now I fully acknowledge that the flyers could have been me but those shots felt good and I was shooting off a concrete bench using bags. All the ammo was loaded at the same time and Im not sure why the flyers would be so far off. Im still fairly new at reloading so what should I be looking for to either improve the SD on the lighter load or get rid of the flyers on the hotter load?

hotrodder636

01-13-20, 17:55

Have you tried a load somewhere between 41.5 and 42? I go in 0.3 increments when developing my loads....and when close may tweak with 0.1-0.2 gr.

C-grunt

01-13-20, 18:04

Have you tried a load somewhere between 41.5 and 42? I go in 0.3 increments when developing my loads....and when close may tweak with 0.1-0.2 gr.

This was my first test.

Pappabear

01-13-20, 18:38

what was your velocities? Looks like you are good to go depending on velocity.

PB

C-grunt

01-13-20, 18:49

what was your velocities? Looks like you are good to go depending on velocity.

PB

2765 and 2770

Pappabear

01-13-20, 18:50

2765 and 2770

That works

gunnerblue

01-13-20, 19:22

My suggestion would be to switch to Lapua small rifle primer brass- cut my group size almost in half compared to the Hornady (sub half moa for ten rounds). 42 grains H4350, Fed small rifle match primer, full-length size, 2.800” OAL with a Nosler 140 grain RDF, 2740 fps

jack crab

01-14-20, 12:19

What's your purpose or intended goal for reloading?

Send it...

01-14-20, 12:32

I ended up at -

143ELD-X

Lapua SP brass and 42.7 gns from my OCW testing. Rem SR BR primer.

I chose 1% increments.

25” Bartlein @ 2840

Shoots extremely well. Good luck to you.

lsllc

01-14-20, 14:24

How did you arrive at one or the other. Where they just random loads or did you develop this loads?

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markm

01-14-20, 15:44

My suggestion would be to switch to Lapua small rifle primer brass- cut my group size almost in half compared to the Hornady

That's interesting. I didn't know they made "palma" in 6.5 grabass. I've struggled and struggled to get anything exciting to happen with 6.5. It almost all shoots good, but not GREAT! Same thing with the better groups having the bigger SDs/Velocity spreads.

C-grunt

01-15-20, 09:12

How did you arrive at one or the other. Where they just random loads or did you develop this loads?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

These were my first 2 loads I tried. I chose them because they were both commonly found "good loads" when researching on the internet.

C-grunt

01-15-20, 09:15

What's your purpose or intended goal for reloading?

I'm wanting to match the accuracy I get from the factory Hornady ammo but for cheaper and with better SD/ES. Uses is to shoot steel at range. Not trying to compete in bench rest or serious F Class competitions.

lsllc

01-15-20, 09:16

These were my first 2 loads I tried. I chose them because they were both commonly found "good loads" when researching on the internet.

Most people develop a load for their gun. For the most part “good loads” you read about on the internet are bullshit. There are too many variables to decide on a load based on the internet. You may have different freebies, different lots of powder/primers/bullets, different stamp brass, etc.

You should work up the load and tune it for YOUR rifle.

I use the “Saterlee Method” and have for years, before it was even known as such. It’s one of the most efficient ways to work up a load. Once you figure our barrel harmonics, then you can tune OAL and really find a good load. I’d also recommend picking up a concentrate gauge to make sure you’re loading straight rounds. If you load bananas, you may get descent groups at 100, but that ES/SD will kill you at longer ranges.

Basically, you’re leaving too much on the table.

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markm

01-15-20, 15:09

With 6.5, we tried the mini ladder work up thing, and simple gradual bumps (.3 gr) each week monitoring velocity/spreads/SDs and accuracy... and have had no Ah Ha moments.

We even tried subbing Win Primers instead of Fed GMM. Fed primers shot better, but still no great loads. Sub MOA isn't hard to get, but no hole stacking to be had. And the round's scattergun accuracy at 1300 yards is discouraging.

lsllc

01-15-20, 15:22

markm

01-15-20, 18:00

Consider that it’s the rifle or the dies?

What kind of brass? What kind of runout?

Haven't checked runout since we're using LE Wilson seaters, but I can check it just to eliminate. ADG brass and some S&B brass. Could be a barrel (Bergara Chasis gun) that's simply MOAish. The Colt Gas gun seems to outshoot the other 2 6.5s we're running.

Pappabear

01-15-20, 18:15

We stack holes with the Bergara WHEN we shoot factory Horndog ammo. The factory target that came with the Bergara was .3moa test target. The gun will shoot, thats the frustrating part. Then pull out handholds with 300WM and shoot .25 inch groups. Our 308 hand loads shoot great. This 6.5 has us scratching.

Check runout, whatever that is.

PB

lsllc

01-15-20, 20:04

Sounds like a strange gun indeed.

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gunnerblue

01-15-20, 20:54

I performed a ladder test starting with 39.6 grains H4350, Hornady brass, Federal LR Match primers and both 140 grain Berger VLD’s and Nosler RDF’s all loaded to 2.800.” Most loads hovered around 1 MOA with the best being 42.0 grains of powder yielding a five-shot 3/4 MOA group, 30 FPS ES and 20 FPS SD. Switching to the Lapua brass, with no other changes, led to a five-shot group of .265” measured center to center, 2739 FPS average, 17 FPS ES, 6.8 FPS SD. All rounds were loaded with a Redding full-length sizing die utilizing a 0.291” bushing and a Forster benchrest seating die.

It dawns on me that I need to shoot a ten-round group

markm

01-16-20, 11:28

Switching to the Lapua brass, with no other changes, led to a five-shot group of .265” measured center to center, 2739 FPS average, 17 FPS ES, 6.8 FPS SD. All rounds were loaded with a Redding full-length sizing die utilizing a 0.291” bushing and a Forster benchrest seating die.

It dawns on me that I need to shoot a ten-round group

I've had outstanding luck with the ADG brass in 300. We've shot several different boxes of ADG in 6.5 with the same pretty good groups you mentioned. I'd be surprised if the brass was hurting the effort.

I need to save some Hornady brass from a good shooting load to test out.

As far as 10 round groups.. although statistically superior; I find them impossible to shoot well all the way through. Even on the .223 bolt gun, I start introducing shooter error. And 300 WM with A-Tip would be way too expensive.