View Full Version : (COVID/ETC CONTENT HERE) China Locks Down 11 Million in Wuhan,
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Sooner or later a major depopulation virus is likely to come along, maybe with help from humans f'king with mother nature.
China Locks Down 11 Million in Wuhan, Home of Deadly Virus
https://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2020/01/22/china-locks-down-11-million-in-wuhan-home-of-deadly-virus/
"Chinese health officials declared the newly identified Wuhan coronavirus a class-A disease and placed strick precautionary and control measures on affected areas of the country on Wednesday.
In one move, authorities virtually locked down the source city of the virus, Wuhan – a city of 11 million people. Another 8 million live in the greater metropolitan area and are not affected by the lockdown within city limits.
The move followed the confirmation of the death toll reaching 17 on Wednesday. Officials shut down all outbound traffic including buses, subways, ferries, and other long-distance transportation methods, the Guardian reported."
Chinese Gangs Infect Pigs With Swine Fever In Criminal Meat Scheme
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/chinese-gangs-infect-pigs-swine-fever-criminal-meat-scheme
Chinese criminals have been flying drones onto farms and infecting perfectly healthy pigs with African swine fever, lowballing the farmer for their sick pigs, and then selling the tainted meat as healthy, according to SCMP, citing China Comment - a magazine affiliated with state news agency Xinhua.
Chinese farmers: Criminals using drones to infect our pigs
https://www.wnd.com/2019/12/chinese-farmers-criminals-using-drones-infect-pigs/
"(FUTURISM) A Chinese airport has found itself caught in the crossfire of a bizarre battle between pig farmers and criminal gangs.
In October, navigations systems started to fail on flights in and out of Harbin airport while they flew over Zhaozhou county. Authorities later traced the cause of the disturbance to a farm’s unauthorized anti-drone device, which it had begun using in an attempt to stop criminals from using drones to drop items infected with swine flu on its pigs."
Someone will have to come to the conclusion we need to import the victims here to administer medications.
Or we volunteer Dr Northam to go over there.
Or we volunteer Dr Northam to go over there.
Change.org!
UPDATE 4 MORE CITIES LOCKED DOWN.
China rapidly locks down 4 new cities over deadly coronavirus – more people than Florida
https://americanmilitarynews.com/2020/01/china-rapidly-locks-down-4-new-cities-over-deadly-coronavirus-more-people-than-florida/
Maybe it’s just me,But I suspect that if China is taking these steps its probably worse than what we know
Maybe it’s just me,But I suspect that if China is taking these steps its probably worse than what we know
I wanna know how they are locking down 11 million? Propaganda from the CCP, because not even the massive police state of China, can lock down that many people, but this is a huge black eye for the CCP.
I see 4 more cities are locked down...comical.
Averageman
01-23-20, 11:38
Apparently the first case of this virus has been detected inside CONUS today.
Dammit I think there’s a couple movies that start like this.
I wanna know how they are locking down 11 million? Propaganda from the CCP, because not even the massive police state of China, can lock down that many people, but this is a huge black eye for the CCP.
I see 4 more cities are locked down...comical.
They lock down by stopping air, rail and bus travel, even local buses and trains inside the cities are shut down, I don't know what they are doing to restrict cars and trucks. If they feel there is a big enough threat they will deploy the military but like someone said many movies have started this way and it may be too little too late. There is nothing comical about this, for them to do this I agree with the poster above about just how much worse is it than they are admitting.
Whiskey_Bravo
01-23-20, 12:52
I am no expert but it seems this may be worse than China is letting on.
People collapsing or dropping dead in the streets?
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/infected-people-seen-dead-streets-21345585
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/passenger-infected-coronavirus-wheeled-out-21341307
https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article21341575.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/0_coronavirus.jpg
https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article21341720.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/0_BLPP_CHP_PMI_o219776JPG.jpg
https://www.studyfinds.org/chinese-coronavirus-outbreak-traced-back-to-snakes-study-finds/
Snakes as the source? If I wanted to write an end of times virus outbreak story this is probably how I would start it out.
Looks at article date..
Looks at lab location...
Ma grab the Reynolds wrap!
https://www.nature.com/news/inside-the-chinese-lab-poised-to-study-world-s-most-dangerous-pathogens-1.21487
Whiskey_Bravo
01-23-20, 13:07
Looks at article date..
Looks at lab location...
Ma grab the Reynolds wrap!
https://www.nature.com/news/inside-the-chinese-lab-poised-to-study-world-s-most-dangerous-pathogens-1.21487
Taping plastic to my windows as we speak.....
Averageman
01-23-20, 13:16
So a flu like virus being airborne doesn't require direct human contact.
Sitting on a plane with someone who is infected is going to create a flying Petrie Plate.
Hong Kong was earlier in the week, I heard about CONUS today, so it's traveling on like with predictions.
I'm guessing two months world wide.
, I heard about CONUS today, ..
Are you talking about the guy in Seattle or is there a different person? The Seattle guy checked himself into a clinic as soon as he arrived from China and heard the news. Although there are many people he came in contact with during his flight and after he arrived.
Averageman
01-23-20, 13:29
That's the one.
Three US airports are screening, five will be online by the week's end.
Airports and planes are going to be crazy breeding grounds.
Apparently the first case of this virus has been detected inside CONUS today.Today??
Turned himself in on the 19th after not feeling good.
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Today??
Turned himself in on the 19th after not feeling good.
No, see the post above yours.
The Real Umbrella Corp: Wuhan Ultra Biohazard Lab Was Studying "The World's Most Dangerous Pathogens"
https://www.zerohedge.com/economics/real-umbrella-corp-wuhan-ultra-biohazard-lab-was-studying-worlds-most-dangerous-pathogens
Inside the Chinese lab poised to study world's most dangerous pathogens
https://www.nature.com/news/inside-the-chinese-lab-poised-to-study-world-s-most-dangerous-pathogens-1.21487
China is saying:
"China has reported more than 600 cases of the virus, which is believed to have originated at a market that sold live animals and seafood.
It is suspected that it emerged from illegally traded wildlife late last month and one study by medical experts suggests it may have originated in snakes, with a link to infected bats."
But that smacks me as a possible cover story since:
"The Real Umbrella Corp: Wuhan Ultra Biohazard Lab Was Studying "The World's Most Dangerous Pathogens"
https://www.zerohedge.com/economics/real-umbrella-corp-wuhan-ultra-biohazard-lab-was-studying-worlds-most-dangerous-pathogens
We will have to wait and see but this appears to be snowballing fast. Time to dig out the ol M40 as it appears a surgical mask may not offer enough protection.
Whiskey_Bravo
01-23-20, 15:04
https://www.breitbart.com/health/2020/01/23/lax-traveler-quarantined-over-possible-coronavirus-symptoms/
Traveler arriving at LAX from Mexico city showing signs was taken to the hospital last night.
Also a suspected case in Brazos County in Texas. College Station area(Texas A&M)
https://www.click2houston.com/news/local/2020/01/23/brazos-county-investigating-suspected-case-of-novel-coronavirus/
We all finna die
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You can expect a flood of those who suspect they are exposed trying to get to the US because of the quality of our medical system.
They lock down by stopping air, rail and bus travel, even local buses and trains inside the cities are shut down, I don't know what they are doing to restrict cars and trucks. If they feel there is a big enough threat they will deploy the military but like someone said many movies have started this way and it may be too little too late. There is nothing comical about this, for them to do this I agree with the poster above about just how much worse is it than they are admitting.
Oh look, it is BAD and that is why the State Run Media coming out and saying they are locking these places down, IS COMICAL, because it is not happening.
The total number of people in China, under lock down, as of writing this post is close to 35 million...NY,Chicago,Houston and LA.
You honestly think they got that locked down? I spent a month in Beijing and I have my doubts. If I were a betting man, I would bet the people in those towns have no idea that they are locked down. Because thia is all China Stat Run Media, telling the world they got a handle on it. The reality, they are digging mass graves for the sick and a few dissidents they have been keeping tabs on.
BBC is providing better coverage of this.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51218014
This is somewhat worrying, were the doctors told to not go to work?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51217455
"A doctor at a hospital in Wuhan spoke to the BBC
The virus is now spreading at an alarming rate. The hospitals have been flooding with thousands of patients, who wait hours to see a doctor. You can imagine their panic.
Normally Wuhan is a great place to live and we are proud of our work. Specialists here have developed a guide for coronavirus diagnosis and treatment.
But I am scared because this is a new virus and the figures are worrying.
Two days ago we were told not to go to work because of the risk of contamination. If we leave our home on the hospital campus, we are required to wear masks."
Outlander Systems
01-23-20, 17:04
This is kinda spooky:
https://twitter.com/badiucao/status/1220374770308374528?s=20
just a scout
01-23-20, 17:07
Didn’t World War Z start like this...?
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Outlander Systems
01-23-20, 17:10
https://www.zerohedge.com/economics/real-umbrella-corp-wuhan-ultra-biohazard-lab-was-studying-worlds-most-dangerous-pathogens
Didn’t World War Z start like this...?
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Wuhan: Chinese scientists trace coronavirus to snakes
https://www.breitbart.com/news/wuhan-chinese-scientists-trace-coronavirus-to-snakes/
Has anyone ever heard of a disease jumping from reptile to human? I am thinking that biolab was messing where they shouldn't of been messing.
Also interesting and somewhat related, though it's a Weather Channel article..
(Warning: Global Warming seems to be the main point of the article, so take it for what it's worth).
"Scientists sampling ice cores from a glacier in China discovered 28 viruses that had been frozen in time for as long as 15,000 years, and were not previously known to mankind."
https://weather.com/news/news/2020-01-23-viruses-discovered-in-melting-glacier
Article popped up while searching the Coronavirus.
Edit:
Fox News now has an article on it.
https://www.foxnews.com/science/viruses-tibetan-glacier-climate-change
Averageman
01-23-20, 18:25
If Doctors in China aren't going to work and if that Twitter feed of people dropping over in the street in China is correct, well, they're screwed.
Lying on the floor of a hospital while suffering from some sort of viral pneumonia doesn't sound like a good time to me.
I think I will keep an eye on this, wash my hands often and avoid crowded area's, wtf, I'm a hermit anyway.
I'm guessing that this is going off the rails soon.
Also interesting and somewhat related, though it's a Weather Channel article..
(Warning: Global Warming seems to be the main point of the article, so take it for what it's worth).
"Scientists sampling ice cores from a glacier in China discovered 28 viruses that had been frozen in time for as long as 15,000 years, and were not previously known to mankind."
https://weather.com/news/news/2020-01-23-viruses-discovered-in-melting-glacier
Article popped up while searching the Coronavirus.
Edit:
Fox News now has an article on it.
https://www.foxnews.com/science/viruses-tibetan-glacier-climate-change
Coincidentally V-Wars on Netflix starts out with this exact premise.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7403736/
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Outlander Systems
01-23-20, 19:19
China built a lab to study SARS and Ebola in Wuhan - and US scientists warned in 2017 that a virus could 'escape' the facility located in the same city that's at the coronavirus outbreak's center:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-7922379/Chinas-lab-studying-SARS-Ebola-Wuhan-outbreaks-center.html
SomeOtherGuy
01-23-20, 20:37
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIvadJNbO4U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIvadJNbO4U
I think this is a different game, but it seems fitting anyway.
Averageman
01-23-20, 20:51
Dicey times ain't it?
HardToHandle
01-24-20, 00:29
Maybe 4% fatality rate, all for older people with serious co-morbidities. To date this coronavirus seems a bit more impactful than a rough flu year.
China is reaping the whirlwind for the repeated lies and inability to build trust. This is not SARS, but it is an opportunity to exercise and learn for the real threat in the future. It will not be surprising if this coronavirus has circulated for decades, but simply has not been a priority to investigate.
My concern is that the US CDC does not repeat their clown show from the 2013 Ebola outbreak in China. The CDC thought that was a false alarm until the DNA test came back, as the unfortunate carrier was bleeding out, permanently. The lack of energy and purpose came close to killing hospital staff and people in the general community. Indicative of hubris, which may also be a root cause in the 2019 Coronavirus.
Maybe another Mao
Lower the population a bit
Maybe 4% fatality rate, all for older people with serious co-morbidities. To date this coronavirus seems a bit more impactful than a rough flu year.
China is reaping the whirlwind for the repeated lies and inability to build trust. This is not SARS, but it is an opportunity to exercise and learn for the real threat in the future. It will not be surprising if this coronavirus has circulated for decades, but simply has not been a priority to investigate.
My concern is that the US CDC does not repeat their clown show from the 2013 Ebola outbreak in China. The CDC thought that was a false alarm until the DNA test came back, as the unfortunate carrier was bleeding out, permanently. The lack of energy and purpose came close to killing hospital staff and people in the general community. Indicative of hubris, which may also be a root cause in the 2019 Coronavirus.
The CDC/HHS runs the show, but other actors do things independently. Where I work is "tip of the spear" with regards to surveillance of illnesses born in Asia (for a variety of reasons). We have gotten no fewer than four emails in three days from leadership about this; our hospital ID folks are looped into other hospitals' ID folks in a network to share information.
So far it appears to be a novel, multi-protein virus, which is no bueno.
Outlander Systems
01-24-20, 08:53
How is 2019-nCoV identified by HCPs?
The CDC/HHS runs the show, but other actors do things independently. Where I work is "tip of the spear" with regards to surveillance of illnesses born in Asia (for a variety of reasons). We have gotten no fewer than four emails in three days from leadership about this; our hospital ID folks are looped into other hospitals' ID folks in a network to share information.
So far it appears to be a novel, multi-protein virus, which is no bueno.
How is 2019-nCoV identified by HCPs?
Until you culture, it's just like any other aerosolized, airborne virus. The key is getting ahead of the OODA loop, if you will. Push surveillance out (my institution has partnerships with universities in Asia), contain it, and isolate where you can. Once you see people coming through the ED doors or direct-admit, you are behind the curve. The ID folks are literally getting updates hourly and sharing them across the country and building into triage criteria key metrics (the signs/symptoms, where you have been, how you traveled, etc.). That info triggers communications to CDC/HHS and other hospitals. As for identification, you'd get swabbed like the flu, but it has to go to a lab to be identified. There is no real-time diagnosis like the flu swab.
Whiskey_Bravo
01-24-20, 09:47
Maybe 4% fatality rate, all for older people with serious co-morbidities. To date this coronavirus seems a bit more impactful than a rough flu year.
China is reaping the whirlwind for the repeated lies and inability to build trust. This is not SARS, but it is an opportunity to exercise and learn for the real threat in the future. It will not be surprising if this coronavirus has circulated for decades, but simply has not been a priority to investigate.
My concern is that the US CDC does not repeat their clown show from the 2013 Ebola outbreak in China. The CDC thought that was a false alarm until the DNA test came back, as the unfortunate carrier was bleeding out, permanently. The lack of energy and purpose came close to killing hospital staff and people in the general community. Indicative of hubris, which may also be a root cause in the 2019 Coronavirus.
Healthy young male a 1,500 miles away from Wuhan.
https://www.lmtonline.com/news/article/Healthy-young-man-among-new-deaths-reported-of-15000796.php
Outlander Systems
01-24-20, 09:58
Roger that. Thanks.
Until you culture, it's just like any other aerosolized, airborne virus. The key is getting ahead of the OODA loop, if you will. Push surveillance out (my institution has partnerships with universities in Asia), contain it, and isolate where you can. Once you see people coming through the ED doors or direct-admit, you are behind the curve. The ID folks are literally getting updates hourly and sharing them across the country and building into triage criteria key metrics (the signs/symptoms, where you have been, how you traveled, etc.). That info triggers communications to CDC/HHS and other hospitals. As for identification, you'd get swabbed like the flu, but it has to go to a lab to be identified. There is no real-time diagnosis like the flu swab.
Averageman
01-24-20, 09:59
New case identified/confirmed in Chicago.
https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2020/01/24/first-case-of-coronavirus-confirmed-in-chicago/
Does it ever seem that the Peoples Republic of China - out biggest geopolitical adversary, is one giant house of cards. Their building codes are crap, their technology is stolen, and their exports are mostly garbage of inferior construction. Now it seems they may have let out a virus of pandemic proportions which could kill millions.
Reminds me of a guy named Esteban, who dressed like Zorro, and sold a guitar and lessons on TV infomercials and QVC. It turns out his guitar was total crap, made in China, with the wood a composite of sawdust, recycled phone books and medical waste. The lacquer on the neck would rub off and the frets would cut your fingers. The Chinese cannot be trusted with anything that involves the welfare of the general public.
Including the two confirmed US cases they are currently monitoring 63 “patients under investigation” in the U.S.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/24/cdc-confirms-second-us-case-of-coronavirus-chicago-resident-diagnosed.html
It is rather interesting when you point out that Wuhan is home to China's recently opened BSL-4 lab. I've only worked on BSL-2+ labs. The BSL-4 stuff is scary.
Does it ever seem that the Peoples Republic of China - out biggest geopolitical adversary, is one giant house of cards. Their building codes are crap, their technology is stolen, and their exports are mostly garbage of inferior construction.
I am friends with a Chinese citizen, she says the stuff they export is much higher quality than what they sell in the country. How scary is that?
Outlander Systems
01-24-20, 17:58
“The deadly animal virus epidemic spreading globally may have originated in a Wuhan laboratory linked to China’s covert biological weapons program, according to an Israeli biological warfare expert.”
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jan/24/virus-hit-wuhan-has-two-laboratories-linked-chines/
Averageman
01-24-20, 18:54
I'm certainly glad we've got our border locked down tight. Otherwise those who are showing symptoms or have been directly exposed might do the bums rush to get in here illegally.
This certainly sounds as if the spread is happening a bit quicker than expected.
I believe H1N1 spread across the world in 4-6 months, seems this is moving a bit faster.
vicious_cb
01-24-20, 19:17
I'm certainly glad we've got our border locked down tight. Otherwise those who are showing symptoms or have been directly exposed might do the bums rush to get in here illegally.
This certainly sounds as if the spread is happening a bit quicker than expected.
I believe H1N1 spread across the world in 4-6 months, seems this is moving a bit faster.
Too late, its already here. Doesnt matter how tight your border is if its airborne. One dude sneezes in an airport and its all over.
“The deadly animal virus epidemic spreading globally may have originated in a Wuhan laboratory linked to China’s covert biological weapons program, according to an Israeli biological warfare expert.”
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jan/24/virus-hit-wuhan-has-two-laboratories-linked-chines/
Wasn’t that lab also responsible for the 2003 SARS outbreak
The_War_Wagon
01-24-20, 19:35
https://i.ibb.co/ZLd8tG5/wuhan-OOOPS.jpg :eek:
Does it ever seem that the Peoples Republic of China - out biggest geopolitical adversary, is one giant house of cards. Their building codes are crap, their technology is stolen, and their exports are mostly garbage of inferior construction. Now it seems they may have let out a virus of pandemic proportions which could kill millions.
Reminds me of a guy named Esteban, who dressed like Zorro, and sold a guitar and lessons on TV infomercials and QVC. It turns out his guitar was total crap, made in China, with the wood a composite of sawdust, recycled phone books and medical waste. The lacquer on the neck would rub off and the frets would cut your fingers. The Chinese cannot be trusted with anything that involves the welfare of the general public.
Does our military use anything from china? Uniforms, boots, computers, tech parts, anything related to aircraft?
Its damn near impossible for us civilians to avoid chinese stuff. Their optics and flashlights are quite popular among many M4C members.
I cant believe we are letting flights from China to come into the USA. Its Fking inane. This is like Zombie bullshit. People lying in the streets dead and nobody is bothering to mess with them. Its insane.
PB
vicious_cb
01-24-20, 19:56
I cant believe we are letting flights from China to come into the USA. Its Fking inane. This is like Zombie bullshit. People lying in the streets dead and nobody is bothering to mess with them. Its insane.
PB
You know those are fake right...
Does our military use anything from china? Uniforms, boots, computers, tech parts, anything related to aircraft?
Its damn near impossible for us civilians to avoid chinese stuff. Their optics and flashlights are quite popular among many M4C members.
When I was in, there were many thousands of DOD contractors for everything from clothing to equipment, all US made. I did see some stuff German made, but these were specialty items. For LandNav I saw some folks using Swedish made Silva Compasses. I was at West Point, New York visiting my son who is a Junior there in August, and I looked at some of his uniform items- all US made contractors.
For aircraft, at least what I was involved with, it was Bell Textron or Hughes. After I retired, a European Company called Parvus was bidding to upgrade the Kiowa 58D's Aircraft Survivability Equipment tactical computer. An American IT entity called Mercom was the go-between. I heard they were awarded the contract, but the 58D has been retired so who knows what they're doing now since we have no scout recon rotorcraft other than the Little Bird right now.
There is the Barry Compliant which stipulates military buy U.S. made but there is always this:
How the Navy SEALs wound up buying 450 counterfeit radio antennas
https://qz.com/1785156/how-the-navy-seals-wound-up-buying-450-counterfeit-radio-antennas/
and this:
US military report highlights security fears behind ban on DJI drones
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/military/article/3042864/us-military-report-highlights-security-fears-behind-ban-dji
And years ago I seem to recall a scandal involving sub standard electronic components IIRC they found them in F-15 electronics. Also weren't cloud servers using Chinese motherboards supposed to have a backdoor hack built in the Chinese military could exploit? I can't remember if it was HP or Apple who stopped using them.
Outlander Systems
01-24-20, 20:54
Wrong.
You know those are fake right...
LOL. This is shaping up to be another Ebola thread (that was hilarious).
I have a friend whose sister lives in Xian'an not far outside of Wuhan. It's a nightmare around there right now. She was telling me that she spoke with her sister for more than an hour last night. The central government has mandated that everyone wear masks, but there are literally no masks to be had. My friend arranged with one of our vendors to acquire almost 1000 respiratory masks and have them shipped over. She is an anesthesiologist, a brilliant woman. She most definitely isn't prone to overreaction but is truly alarmed over this particular issue, and the central government's reaction to it.
vicious_cb
01-24-20, 21:19
Wrong.
Would you just lie down in the street and die if you had pneumonia?
Outlander Systems
01-24-20, 21:42
Hoarders/Flippers/Gougers have been buying up all the stock and selling them for a markup in China.
It also appears the CCP is significantly underreporting the actual numbers of infected individuals.
LOL. This is shaping up to be another Ebola thread (that was hilarious).
I have a friend whose sister lives in Xian'an not far outside of Wuhan. It's a nightmare around there right now. She was telling me that she spoke with her sister for more than an hour last night. The central government has mandated that everyone wear masks, but there are literally no masks to be had. My friend arranged with one of our vendors to acquire almost 1000 respiratory masks and have them shipped over. She is an anesthesiologist, a brilliant woman. She most definitely isn't prone to overreaction but is truly alarmed over this particular issue, and the central government's reaction to it.
Averageman
01-24-20, 21:47
Too late, its already here. Doesnt matter how tight your border is if its airborne. One dude sneezes in an airport and its all over.
That was a bit tongue in cheek.
That we've known this was a possibility and have yet to take any precautions, that we refuse to close and monitor unchecked illegal immigration or have a plan that can be put immediately in place only insures that this will continue to hurt us.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200125/36c8bd4eab6ef2ffaf5d9d720614dde6.jpg
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I have to be honest, I’m a bit concerned as my mother in law just left yesterday for Manila. Made it there safe and sound but considering there was a case reported at the airport yesterday or the day prior, LAX international terminal, and given the proximity of the Philippines to China. I just hope she makes it home safe.
LOL. This is shaping up to be another Ebola thread (that was hilarious).
I have a friend whose sister lives in Xian'an not far outside of Wuhan. It's a nightmare around there right now. She was telling me that she spoke with her sister for more than an hour last night. The central government has mandated that everyone wear masks, but there are literally no masks to be had. My friend arranged with one of our vendors to acquire almost 1000 respiratory masks and have them shipped over. She is an anesthesiologist, a brilliant woman. She most definitely isn't prone to overreaction but is truly alarmed over this particular issue, and the central government's reaction to it.
In addition to being a ranch wife and mother, the wife is a Trauma RN supervisor. She has been trying to follow this, and she thinks the transmission and spread may be worse than Ebola, but more so in the 3rd World. And despite being called "newly industrialized", China is the 3rd World.
vicious_cb
01-24-20, 23:28
In addition to being a ranch wife and mother, the wife is a Trauma RN supervisor. She has been trying to follow this, and she thinks the transmission and spread may be worse than Ebola, but more so in the 3rd World. And despite being called "newly industrialized", China is the 3rd World.
Yes it is because its airborne. I feel like alot of people in this thread are chiming in without knowing anything about the disease. In times like this where there is alot of misinformation it would be prudent to take some time and know your enemy. Understand how it spreads, what the symptoms are, how it kills and what the % of morality is.
Its easy to debunk crap like people passing out in the street when then virus kills via viral pneumonia.
UK Researcher Predicts Over 250,000 Chinese Will Have Coronavirus In Ten Days
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/uk-researcher-predicts-over-250000-people-china-will-have-coronavirus-ten-days
Finally, while Reed makes no observations on the potential mortality associated with nCoV, one can make a broad observation: late on Friday, China's Hubei province reported 15 additional coronavirus deaths, which added to the previously reported 26 casualties, bringing the total to 41. And with roughly 1,100 confirmed cases, this means that the mortality rate of the diseases has just jumped from roughly 2.5% to 4%. Which means that if Reed is correct, and if 250,000 people in Hubei alone will be infected by February 4, no less than 10,000 Chinese people will be dead in the next 2-3 weeks.
What happens after that - with China effectively paralyzed by fear and the economy grinding to a halt as nobody leave their home - is anyone's guess.
Video of Chinese hospital showing dead bodies in hall way while other patients are being treated.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1220641000063848448
just a scout
01-25-20, 07:04
Well thank god theres socialized medicine to keep everyone safe and healthy.......
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it would be prudent to take some time and know your enemy. Understand how it spreads, what the symptoms are, how it kills and what the % of morality is.
.
Are there any narrowly defined symptoms? We looked the other day and what we found were broad/vague. Kind of like lyme disease and I have known a few who said they had been diagnosed with that, but only after 6 months or more of symptoms which seems like an odd wait time before testing in a heavily tick infested area.
In addition to being a ranch wife and mother, the wife is a Trauma RN supervisor. She has been trying to follow this, and she thinks the transmission and spread may be worse than Ebola, but more so in the 3rd World. And despite being called "newly industrialized", China is the 3rd World.
I was referring to the Ebola thread here on M4C, which was pretty eye-rolling. Transmission of coronavirus, like any respiratory virus, is through droplets and fomites, therefore a sneeze from someone close by, or used tissue (or mask) is all it takes. Ebola requires contact with blood or other secretions...so coronavirus, like SARS, is much more easily transmitted. Once out of the body, the lifespan of the coronavirus is limited (about a hour or less, probably) so this is a much more dangerous and transmissible virus in densely populated areas like Wuhan. Less populated, less crowded areas, or areas with good quarantine protocols are going to have lower transmission rates.
Like any respiratory virus, this bug is going to mostly kill the very young, the very old, and the immune-compromised. The SARS outbreak mortality rate was about 10% before it was contained. Too early to know, but this particular coronavirus strain looks to be following that pattern. The risk to the US is extremely low, just as it was for SARS.
Outlander Systems
01-25-20, 08:42
The local governments and the national government of China are notorious for lying about incredibly serious things if they think it will make them look better.
So the reality is that between not being able to account for all the infected and the Chinese government straight up lying there is really no way to tell how high the number is. But it is almost certainly higher than the claimed number as the response by the Chinese would be way beyond disproportionate for numbers as small as claimed.
I’d also like to point out that it’s, “lol, just a cold, guys.”
News today first reported cases in Europe. Two cases in USA.
Here’s some information via the CDC:
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/notices/watch/novel-coronavirus-china
vicious_cb
01-25-20, 12:14
News today first reported cases in Europe. Two cases in USA.
Here’s some information via the CDC:
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/notices/watch/novel-coronavirus-china
Even better, a semi-live map.
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
This keeps getting better, did they do this kind of stuff for SARS?
Xi Jinping: Accelerating Spread of Coronavirus ‘Grave Situation’ — Suspends Tourist Travel Abroad
https://www.breitbart.com/border/2020/01/25/xi-jinping-accelerating-spread-of-coronavirus-grave-situation-suspends-tourist-travel-abroad/
Our hospital has one patient in isolation who has the symptoms and just traveled back from that area. No hospital has the diagnostics yet, it all has to go out to a lab. So it is in all likelihood one of the other thousand respiratory viruses and not coronovirus, but they are not taking any chances.
Interestingly, I have been away from the front line in our hospital for a few years, but leadership has pinged me to assist with policy for triage in the emergency department. I don't know what they're thinking or what information they have.
Mauser KAR98K
01-25-20, 20:57
They just cleared the one on Tennessee.
My mom works at the hospital in Cookeville. I was really worried to say the least. (I got my degree from TTU)
Outlander Systems
01-26-20, 08:05
Evidently the Chinese government feels that the economic downturn, the hunger riots, and the unrest that comes from locking down 19 cities is worth it to slow the spread of this, “just a cold.”
I’m curious to see what the second order effects, economically, will be if they have to lock down Shanghai.
Averageman
01-26-20, 08:20
If the Chinese are saying 2,000 cases, I would guess it is likely much closer to 10,000 cases.
Numbers are likely to double every 36 hours.
Even better, a semi-live map.
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
Thanks for the link. Checked it yesterday, 1400. Today, 2000. Nothing to see here...
Evidently the Chinese government feels that the economic downturn, the hunger riots, and the unrest that comes from locking down 19 cities is worth it to slow the spread of this, “just a cold.”
I’m curious to see what the second order effects, economically, will be if they have to lock down Shanghai.
I totally agree with this, the Chinese reaction to this speaks volumes about what is really going on, poo pooing how serious this is is burying your head in the sand. IMO the whole seafood market story is nothing but trying to deflect from the truth, it will likely never be known but I would bet money that patient zero worked at that bio lab. Here's another point to consider, death rate is running 2-4% right now but as this spreads into countries with poorer health care and overwhelms countries with first world systems this will shoot up.
Did China Steal Coronavirus From Canada And Weaponize It?
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/did-china-steal-coronavirus-canada-and-weaponize-it
This virus won’t overwhelm 1st world countries. Other than the panic reaction to it, it’s not even likely that it’s going to overwhelm China.
You know you say that and every now and then I see a story about hospitals facing shortages of common medicine. How bad this gets is going to hinge on if victims are contagious before they become symptomatic.
Dealing with a panic is part of the problem. I would say that if you were in one of the 13 cities that are currently locked down you might feel a little bit overwhelmed. I’m one of those that think it’s probably a little bit worse than what China is letting on. I believe China’s state run media just slightly more than I believe Iran’s state run media.
Another video.
https://www.vidmax.com/video/193401-HORROR-SHOW-Leaked-Videos-From-Wuhan-Show-The-Apocalyptic-Nightmare-It-Has-Become
Wuhan, where cases of coronavirus were first reported before the outbreak spread across the world, has been dubbed “zombieland” by desperate locals.
Overcrowded hospitals, people dropping in the middle of the street, dying citizens treated in gardens because there is no room in the hospital, police bullying people into ambulances, 2-day old corpses under blankets it's like a bad nightmare these poor people can't wake up from.
Outlander Systems
01-26-20, 10:20
Your suspicions are correct. Apparently they were arresting people for posting about the initial phases on WeChat and Weibo.
https://i.ibb.co/L6JknN4/12-B2-F02-A-DB4-E-4-DA1-B9-CC-C399-BA96-C793.png
Dealing with a panic is part of the problem. I would say that if you were in one of the 13 cities that are currently locked down you might feel a little bit overw
helmed. I’m one of those that think it’s probably a little bit worse than what China is letting on. I believe China’s state run media just slightly more than I believe Iran’s state run media.
You know you say that and every now and then I see a story about hospitals facing shortages of common medicine. How bad this gets is going to hinge on if victims are contagious before they become symptomatic.
As is true of any communicable disease.
Note that there are somewhere between 25,000 and 50,000 deaths from influenza in the US every year. Might help people see this particular panic in context.
Outlander Systems
01-26-20, 10:23
https://i.ibb.co/x1d0cgQ/646-A5-AA0-7138-4-F65-AB32-2-D4-B4383-E857.jpg
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3047701/coronavirus-contagious-even-incubation-stage-chinas-health
You know you say that and every now and then I see a story about hospitals facing shortages of common medicine. How bad this gets is going to hinge on if victims are contagious before they become symptomatic.
Well sh@t.
China’s National Health Commission (NHC) said on Sunday that the new coronavirus
is contagious even in its incubation period, which lasts up to 14 days, and that the virus’ ability to spread is getting stronger.
Ma said that unlike Sars (severe acute respiratory syndrome) the new coronavirus was infectious during its incubation period.
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3047701/coronavirus-contagious-even-incubation-stage-chinas-health
And first case in CA.
Health Care Agency
@ochealth
PRESS RELEASE: The OC Health Care Agency’s Communicable Disease Control Division received confirmation from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention this evening that an Orange County, California case has tested positive for the novel #coronavirus. https://mailchi.mp/ochca/novelcor
Dealing with a panic is part of the problem. I would say that if you were in one of the 13 cities that are currently locked down you might feel a little bit overwhelmed. I’m one of those that think it’s probably a little bit worse than what China is letting on. I believe China’s state run media just slightly more than I believe Iran’s state run media.
The Chinese central government is duplicitous enough. When you add in local and regional governments each afraid to report the true statistics up the chain to each other and to the central government, you have a situation whose true local impact is impossible to gauge. The central government may not even know the true extent. Lack of public scrutiny exacerbates that kind of corruption.
Oh oh ... confirmed cased in CA.
https://www.foxnews.com/health/third-case-of-coronavirus-confirmed-in-southern-california
Here's the list in CONUS:
Washington state
Illinois
CA
I got an email last night, before I got out to the media, that our case was negative. He is still really sick, but that isn't what he has.
Oh oh ... confirmed cased in CA.
https://www.foxnews.com/health/third-case-of-coronavirus-confirmed-in-southern-california
Here's the list in CONUS:
Washington state
Illinois
CA
Uh Oh...sky is starting to fall.
Outlander Systems
01-26-20, 12:54
This. It’s just a cold, guys.
Uh Oh...sky is starting to fall.
Maybe I'm a simpleton who can't grasp the situation or maybe I'm just burned out on all this OMG THE SKY IS FALLING every time something makes the news but somehow Im not phased by this and don't really see an issue. This doesn't mean I'm not going to take some precautions but meh....seems like it's the newest wave of news until something else happens and we forget about this and go on with our lives.
Like Hmac, I remember reading the Ebola topic from a few years ago. After reading it you'd swear the end times were upon us and we should be preparing to live in a Mad Max waste land in the near future
https://www.wdbj7.com/content/news/Department-of-Health-investigating-three-VA-cases--567309681.html
3 cases in Virginia!
Have they determined how long after death the corpses begin reanimating? I need to know how long I have before I bug out to the mountains. Maybe the Greenbriar Resort will be abandoned and I can make it my home. It has an old congressional fallout shelter!
Outlander Systems
01-26-20, 14:17
https://residentevilonly.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/3d7ea813632762d0853d6637aeec08fa503dc64e-1024x768.jpg
https://www.wdbj7.com/content/news/Department-of-Health-investigating-three-VA-cases--567309681.html
3 cases in Virginia!
Have they determined how long after death the corpses begin reanimating? I need to know how long I have before I bug out to the mountains. Maybe the Greenbriar Resort will be abandoned and I can make it my home. It has an old congressional fallout shelter!
This. It’s just a cold, guys.
I don't read tone well on the interwebs, can't tell if this is sarcastic or not...
Truly, it is a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. I don't know that anyone at least in the US is panicking, but if the hospitals and government doesn't do its due diligence with appropriate steps in education, and something really bad happens, all the blame will be late at their feet. As it is now, everyone points to them thinking they are fear-mongering. It's hard to take a middle road.
I am a thousand times more concerned about the flu. In spite of the flu shot, people are getting the flu, and a lot of people are dying from it.
But like every other bug, this deserves its space and due diligence. But not fear-mongering or overplaying.
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Maybe I'm a simpleton who can't grasp the situation or maybe I'm just burned out on all this OMG THE SKY IS FALLING every time something makes the news but somehow Im not phased by this and don't really see an issue. This doesn't mean I'm not going to take some precautions but meh....seems like it's the newest wave of news until something else happens and we forget about this and go on with our lives.
Like Hmac, I remember reading the Ebola topic from a few years ago. After reading it you'd swear the end times were upon us and we should be preparing to live in a Mad Max waste land in the near future
Yes. The internet, including M4C, is a little prone to overreaction.
Obviously, this is more than an ordinary cold virus, but just as obviously, the sky is not falling. The only precautions I’m going to take is to avoid travel to China anytime soon and I’m going to wash my hands real well between patients because I don’t want to catch influenza, which is an infinitely greater threat to my day-to-day routine, health, and well-being than nCoV.
Yes. The internet, including M4C, is a little prone to overreaction.
Obviously, this is more than an ordinary cold virus, but just as obviously, the sky is not falling. The only precautions I’m going to take is to avoid travel to China anytime soon and I’m going to wash my hands real well between patients because I don’t want to catch influenza, which is infinitely a greater threat to my day-to-day routine, health, and well-being than nCov.
That's what I was thinking. Went and bought sanitizer for my car that way I can wash my hand when out and about. Try to avoid massive public gatherings at peak hours. Instead of shopping today I can do it tomorrow afternoon.... things like that.
Yes, good plan. It will help you avoid getting influenza, which is vastly more likely than even being in the same state as someone with this coronavirus.
Yes, good plan. It will help you avoid getting influenza, which is vastly more likely than even being in the same state as someone with this coronavirus.
My wife who is a RN and works with the CDC for theses things put this to me last night:
'25-50k AMERICANS die a year from various strains of the FLU. America, where we have the best health knowledge, systems and delivery of both on the G-D planet.
Let me know when this thing takes down 1 million Chinese and I will get worried'
She wrote a thesis on the Spanish Flu
My wife who is a RN and works with the CDC for theses things put this to me last night:
'25-50k AMERICANS die a year from various strains of the FLU. America, where we have the best health knowledge, systems and delivery of both on the G-D planet.
Let me know when this thing takes down 1 million Chinese and I will get worried'
She wrote a thesis on the Spanish Flu
The worst viral epidemic in Asia recently was SARS. There were about 8000 cases worldwide and about 800 deaths. The same hysteria (minus the impact of the internet) was rampant in the US. In the US, there were 8 cases of SARS. That year IIRC, 18,000 people died in the US from influenza.
Outlander Systems
01-26-20, 16:53
I was being sarcastic, absolutely.
You don’t risk billions of dollars in economic losses for “just a cold, guys.”
I was mocking Dr. Tummytuck, the Epidemiologist.
I don't read tone well on the interwebs, can't tell if this is sarcastic or not...
Truly, it is a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. I don't know that anyone at least in the US is panicking, but if the hospitals and government doesn't do its due diligence with appropriate steps in education, and something really bad happens, all the blame will be late at their feet. As it is now, everyone points to them thinking they are fear-mongering. It's hard to take a middle road.
I am a thousand times more concerned about the flu. In spite of the flu shot, people are getting the flu, and a lot of people are dying from it.
But like every other bug, this deserves its space and due diligence. But not fear-mongering or overplaying.
My wife who is a RN and works with the CDC for theses things put this to me last night:
'25-50k AMERICANS die a year from various strains of the FLU. America, where we have the best health knowledge, systems and delivery of both on the G-D planet.
Let me know when this thing takes down 1 million Chinese and I will get worried'
She wrote a thesis on the Spanish Flu
I'm NOT disrespecting your wife or her knowledge on the subject. Aren't most of the Flu deaths occuring in the elderly and immune compromised people?
The Spanish Flu killed young healthy people.
The Spanish Flu killed young healthy people.
In 1918....
I'm NOT disrespecting your wife or her knowledge on the subject. Aren't most of the Flu deaths occuring in the elderly and immune compromised people?
The Spanish Flu killed young healthy people.There is no agreement on how many it actually killed or why. Reports range from inflammatory response to malnourishment, overcrowded medical camps and poor hygiene (study from 2007). It killed 3% - 6% of the entire population.
There is no agreement on how many it actually killed or why. Reports range from inflammatory response to malnourishment, overcrowded medical camps and poor hygiene (study from 2007). It killed 3% - 6% of the entire population.
In an era where there was no such thing as intravenous infusion, let alone antibiotics to address secondary bacterial infections.
I'm NOT disrespecting your wife or her knowledge on the subject. Aren't most of the Flu deaths occuring in the elderly and immune compromised people?
The Spanish Flu killed young healthy people.
Most of the flu deaths are the young and old, correct.
I will address a couple of Spanish Fever comments. It lasted about 8 months amd so far with Cov, it is killing the old...like most flus do.
I just watched a Salt Lake City news story about two healthy teenagers who were students at Utah Military Academy that died from the flu 1 day apart. The strain this year might be a bad one.
The 1918 Spanish Flu was different in that it came in two waves, first in the spring that was not too deadly and again in the fall and yes it was different in that it hit young people harder than usual. Also remember it hit during WW I when a lot of were dealing with harsh living conditions.
I just watched a Salt Lake City news story about two healthy teenagers who were students at Utah Military Academy that died from the flu 1 day apart. The strain this year might be a bad one.
The 1918 Spanish Flu was different in that it came in two waves, first in the spring that was not too deadly and again in the fall and yes it was different in that it hit young people harder than usual. Also remember it hit during WW I when a lot of were dealing with harsh living conditions.
As of January 24, the CDC has recorded 8200 deaths so far this flu season with a few months to go. The vaccine this year was not a very good match for the early cases, but the CDC says it's seeing a second wave starting. Fortunately, that wave appears to be H1N1 influenza A, for which the vaccine was an an exact match.
Averageman
01-26-20, 22:47
Lots of information out there, I'm not sure how much of it is legitimate and how much is trash.
However, what I am finding interesting is reports coming from within China that they've disallowed travel by automobile unless it is an emergency, or emergency control people are being moved, i.e. Doctors. There are also reports that roads have been blocked by loads of gravel being dumped to cordon off/ totally cut off travle between cities.
If this is true, I would say that the Chinese aren't reporting the numbers correctly as you don't shut down a country's ability to move people and commerce unless the result of allowing it would be an even greater loss of travel and commerce continued.
StovePipe_Jammer
01-27-20, 07:17
Lots of information out there, I'm not sure how much of it is legitimate and how much is trash.
However, what I am finding interesting is reports coming from within China that they've disallowed travel by automobile unless it is an emergency, or emergency control people are being moved, i.e. Doctors. There are also reports that roads have been blocked by loads of gravel being dumped to cordon off/ totally cut off travle between cities.
If this is true, I would say that the Chinese aren't reporting the numbers correctly as you don't shut down a country's ability to move people and commerce unless the result of allowing it would be an even greater loss of travel and commerce continued.
I wouldn't be as concerned if the majority of information of what's happening was coming from any country other than China. The amount of censorship they normally practice is head shaking. Toss in a potential global pandemic that originated within their borders and the party's redaction team is going to be pulling double shifts keeping bad stuff quiet.
China will protect itself and it's image first and foremost. I hope I'm wrong but if we're hearing it's bad, it's probably really bad.
The plus side is that we're aware of it stateside and our ports are looking for it. Couple it with the normal flu prevention that everyone should be practicing and it should go a long way in minimizing any potential impact here.
Lots of information out there, I'm not sure how much of it is legitimate and how much is trash.
However, what I am finding interesting is reports coming from within China that they've disallowed travel by automobile unless it is an emergency, or emergency control people are being moved, i.e. Doctors. There are also reports that roads have been blocked by loads of gravel being dumped to cordon off/ totally cut off travle between cities.
If this is true, I would say that the Chinese aren't reporting the numbers correctly as you don't shut down a country's ability to move people and commerce unless the result of allowing it would be an even greater loss of travel and commerce continued.
One of the Anesthesiologists here is from China and a good friend. Brilliant woman, with PhD in Molecular Genetics as well as an MD. Her sister lives just outside of Wuhan and they speak on the phone daily. Her sister has to be very careful what she says because international phone calls are monitored, but she tells me this morning that the conversations so far confirm what you posted above. This woman, whom I've met, is as remarkable as her sister. She's been on the list for a US immigration visa for 14 years.
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Outlander Systems
01-27-20, 07:56
It's just a cold, guys.
I mean, the flu kills people every year.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200127/a3f5fc422a368c00012245ed79340947.jpg
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Case in point for a tough capable 4WD bugout vehicle.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200127/a3f5fc422a368c00012245ed79340947.jpg
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China has been a house of cards ready to fall for quite some time. The downside with that is that in order to prevent the fall, the ChiCom government will impose all manner of restrictions to remain in place. This means that even a relatively mild threat will find a heavy-handed reaction coming down on it like a ton of bricks. I'm far more concerned about the PRC overreacting to this than I am the actual virus.
if those images are true. I could definitely understand why people are starting to freak out.
Case in point for a tough capable 4WD bugout vehicle.
Except that photo doesn't show the PLA armor waiting on the other side of the tunnel, 4wd won't help there.
Honestly the reaction of the Chinese government worries me more than the disease, like others have said they are not being honest and open about this whole thing and seem to be overreacting to a somewhat mild virus. My money is still that this a bio weapon research virus that escaped from that BSL-4 lab. If so we are lucky that it is not a lot more lethal.
Even if they are being honest, they’ve proven over and over again to be untrustworthy. So you really can’t believe anything they say.
Averageman
01-27-20, 09:38
Honestly the reaction of the Chinese government worries me more than the disease, like others have said they are not being honest and open about this whole thing and seem to be overreacting to a somewhat mild virus. My money is still that this a bio weapon research virus that escaped from that BSL-4 lab. If so we are lucky that it is not a lot more lethal.
And on that note;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b40IfShXIH0
It would appear that they are moving the infected IN to Wuhan, the logic behind isolating the infected behind the containment lines has me a bit perplexed.
The optimist in me says that they are consolidating all support for the patients in Wuhan. All medicine and medical personnel are being centrally located.
The pessimist is seeing a bunch of infected people who are being written off and removed to prevent further spread of the disease.
Yesterday the international airport in Wuhan still had flights going out, that to me is very concerning because as we now know patients with Coronavirus can spread the disease before they present symptoms.
I'm NOT disrespecting your wife or her knowledge on the subject. Aren't most of the Flu deaths occuring in the elderly and immune compromised people?
The Spanish Flu killed young healthy people.
Our facility is seeing a flat curve, so while there are the very young and very old and people with comorbidities dying from the flu, we are seeing a higher proportion this year die who had no medical history and who were between 16 and 55.
These folks are put on ECMO very very quickly into the process, literally everything is thrown at them including the kitchen sink.
Averageman
01-27-20, 10:26
Our facility is seeing a flat curve, so while there are the very young and very old and people with comorbidities dying from the flu, we are seeing a higher proportion this year die who had no medical history and who were between 16 and 55.
These folks are put on ECMO very very quickly into the process, literally everything is thrown at them including the kitchen sink.
I've been watching video coming out of China, it would appear they are finding the same things you expressed above. It's no longer the young, old and immune system compromised patients who are dying.
Mongolia has closed their border.
The Cities are on lock down, no school, no driving, hospitals appear overwhelmed.
Those cities on lock down would appear to me a laymen a huge stew pot of viral infection.
Averageman
01-27-20, 10:32
http://https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nCoV/
Well the CDC website appears to be a week pushing week old data.
I've been watching video coming out of China, it would appear they are finding the same things you expressed above. It's no longer the young, old and immune system compromised patients who are dying.
Mongolia has closed their border.
The Cities are on lock down, no school, no driving, hospitals appear overwhelmed.
Those cities on lock down would appear to me a laymen a huge stew pot of viral infection.
Looks much worse... reported 100k infected in the video, people falling dead in the streets..
https://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshhkefteJ0Ee1ytx5UE
On the Mongolian border..
https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/480059-mongolia-closes-border-with-china-as-virus-spreads
Whiskey_Bravo
01-27-20, 10:53
The financial markets seem to be noticing the virus today.
Averageman
01-27-20, 11:08
The financial markets seem to be noticing the virus today.
When I saw that the Chinese were isolating not only Wuhan, but other Cities too, I figured it's going to be a rough week on Wall Street.
The CDC was estimating the incubation period to be 6-10 days, the Chinese are now claiming 10 to 14 days, if you think about that for a minute and understand that you can spread the disease before you show the symptoms, the numbers become mind boggling in a City of 11 million people. For that matter and entire Country of a Billion of so.
It certainly wasn't in the best interest of the Chinese Government to increase the numbers of incubation days by what we would call a work week, it actually very likely hurts them.
If they are coming out with an estimate like that, I would guess it's a lot worse than we now know, but bear this in mind, the information is increasing daily and the seriousness is just now becoming apparent.
Look at video from the 24th and then compare it to today, the difference is pretty amazing.
As of January 24, the CDC has recorded 8200 deaths so far this flu season with a few months to go. The vaccine this year was not a very good match for the early cases, but the CDC says it's seeing a second wave starting. Fortunately, that wave appears to be H1N1 influenza A, for which the vaccine was an an exact match.
Now toss in a % of how many die from pneumonia that sprouted from the flu and toss in how many die from heart related issues caused by pneumonia, that sprouted from the flu.
Much like your local LEO's not having a code for an armed citizen using his/her firearm, to thwart a crime...it happens a bunch, but is not reported as such. Same thing with pneumonia and heart attacks associated with it. A good portion of the time, it started with the flu, but the flu is not the reported cause of death...why? Takes too much work to track it back, when heart attack is perfectly reasonable for a 67 year old male with a history of heart issues.
teufelhund1918
01-27-20, 11:23
They are saying the incubation period is longer than the 14 days now. From the below article:
""It's also alarming, this is the big news today, the Chinese leadership is starting to say 'this incubation period is a lot longer than we thought,'" he said, adding that it appears that someone who catches the new coronavirus can be contagious for weeks before even realizing they're sick.
"That would change the infectious nature of this. It does seem like once you've got the virus, you do seem to infect more people than usual," he added."
https://www.foxnews.com/health/dr-oz-coronavirus-outbreak-chinese-leaders-alarming
Averageman
01-27-20, 11:31
If this is correct and you can spread the virus while asymptomatic and the numbers of days it takes to become symptomatic has gone from 6 to 10, then 10 to 14 and now 14 +, the numbers haven't peaked yet and may not for over a month.
It would appear that it is attacking the lungs, this was unknown as of the 24th of this month, so it is spreading pneumonia or pneumonia like symptoms.
That we are still relying upon incoming international travelers to show a fever before they are isolated isn't very comforting to me.
Don’t worry guys we have top men working on this and have stated it’s just the common flu.
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If this is correct and you can spread the virus while asymptomatic and the numbers of days it takes to become symptomatic has gone from 6 to 10, then 10 to 14 and now 14 +, the numbers haven't peaked yet and may not for over a month.
It would appear that it is attacking the lungs, this was unknown as of the 24th of this month, so it is spreading pneumonia or pneumonia like symptoms.
That we are still relying upon incoming international travelers to show a fever before they are isolated isn't very comforting to me.
The guy we isolated, we did so on signs/symptoms and where he came from. Fever wasn't part of his equation.
Outlander Systems
01-27-20, 12:24
It's just a cold, guys.
Don’t worry guys we have top men working on this and have stated it’s just the common flu.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200127/defb06025cbda13055db033043d5fb57.jpg
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14+ day asymptomatic contagious period would be very desirable in a bio weapon. Just sayn'
teufelhund1918
01-27-20, 13:02
In today's world where someone could travel around the world in pretty much 24 hours, a 14 day incubation period in which someone could pass the bug along to others means that it could be literally everywhere by the time patient zero started to exhibit symptoms.
Averageman
01-27-20, 15:14
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZeKzqphlzM
Some reports of 44,000 infected in Wuhan.
Whiskey_Bravo
01-27-20, 15:20
We are now advising against travel to China.
http://news.trust.org/item/20200127192459-dowhs
The U.S. State Department on Monday warned against visiting China and said Americans should not travel to the Hubei province, given that the province's city of Wuhan is ground zero for a new deadly coronavirus.
The State Department has already ordered the departure of all non-emergency U.S. personnel and family members from the province and the "U.S. government has limited ability to provide emergency services" to its citizens there.
Outlander Systems
01-27-20, 15:31
I can’t believe this actually got picked up by western media.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZeKzqphlzM
Some reports of 44,000 infected in Wuhan.
Averageman
01-27-20, 16:40
We are now advising against travel to China.
http://news.trust.org/item/20200127192459-dowhs
Well that was amazingly about a week and a half late, but after all it is the .gov.
If I were a CEO of a major company, I think I could have made this call two weeks ago. We live in an age where a handshake is no longer meaningful or necessary, so why do I need to send someone who works for me to the epicenter of a viral soup bowl?
That's right up there with everyone should feel safe and secure because everyone travelling in to the US from Wuhan is getting theor temperature checked as they get off the plane here in the US.
Curly, Moe and Larry have a better capacity to protect us from this pandemic than the people currently at the helm.
If they’re 44,000 estimate is correct and a 3% mortality rate, they would only be looking at 1,320 dead. Not great not terrible.
If they’re 44,000 estimate is correct and a 3% mortality rate, they would only be looking at 1,320 dead. Not great not terrible.
The SARS coronavirus had a 10-15% mortality rate, the MERS coronavirus had a 30-35% mortality rate. If this novel coronavirus holds at 3% (it probably won't), then it's a relative lightweight. At any rate...it's not going to be The Walking Dead.
Averageman
01-27-20, 17:16
With a 14 day incubation period we might get this in waves.
If they’re 44,000 estimate is correct and a 3% mortality rate, they would only be looking at 1,320 dead. Not great not terrible.
It ain't stopping at 44,000, crowded Chinese city of 11,000,000, weeks long asymptomatic contagious period likely millions are catching this so at 3% that's 30,000 for every million patients. Plus cat is out of the bag, Wuhan has an international airport how many hundreds or thousands of infected have spread out across the world.
I’m sure somebody knows, what is the mortality rate on the influenza A/b this year.
Weekly U.S. Influenza Surveillance Report
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm
Based on National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS) mortality surveillance data available on January 23, 2020, 6.7% of the deaths occurring during the week ending January 11, 2020 (week 2) were due to P&I. This percentage is below the epidemic threshold of 7.1% for week 2.
8,200 flu deaths/15 million flu diagnoses....
Straight Shooter
01-27-20, 21:13
60601
I don't mean to minimize the impact of anyone's death, but this just feels all blown out.
As others have mentioned how proportional is this to garden variety flu. The press is all hot and heavy about this latest Kung Flu, but how many died in China last week of the common cold?
Perhaps why they seem to be over reacting:
If this virus is spread weeks before anyone shows symptoms, it’s likely to infect nearly everyone that has regular contact with other people. Given enough time. Because people who aren’t feeling sick go to work and school. They travel and they get together with others who work and travel. For weeks . . . . All the while infecting people around them, who in turn will spend weeks feeling healthy and infecting yet more people.
So far the virus has a roughly 2.5% death rate. If the virus spread to the far corners of the globe, that would mean roughly 175,000,000 people dead world-wide. And that’s only if the virus doesn’t mutate as it spreads and infects in new lands and climates.
That is about 2x as many people killed compared to World War II. That’s why governments seem to be freaking out. Is Coronavirus more lethal than sars? No, but it’s sneaky.
I don't mean to minimize the impact of anyone's death, but this just feels all blown out.
As others have mentioned how proportional is this to garden variety flu. The press is all hot and heavy about this latest Kung Flu, but how many died in China last week of the common cold?
The nCoV panic and hysteria will settle back down as Bolton’s book gains traction and derails McConnells impeachment plans. The media will have other things to focus on.
The nCoV panic and hysteria will settle back down as Bolton’s book gains traction and derails McConnells impeachment plans. The media will have other things to focus on.
Basically this.
Doesn't it seem like there is some "apocalyptic, bound to turn into a super deadly pandemic " version of the Kung flu coming out of China every few years. Which invariably turns into a nothingburger as soon as something bright and shiny pops up on the radar.
ETA, of course some A'hole could have been saying the same thing about the bubonic plague (also from China) around 1346.
Basically this.
Doesn't it seem like there is some "apocalyptic, bound to turn into a super deadly pandemic " version of the Kung flu coming out of China every few years. Which invariably turns into a nothingburger as soon as something bright and shiny pops up on the radar.
ETA, of course some A'hole could have been saying the same thing about the bubonic plague (also from China) around 1346.
Internet access was far more limited around 1346 and it was harder for the news media of the times to foment panic in the population.
I dont see anyone shutting borders for the flu... or building more hospitals as fast as they can... play it down, play it down...
I dont set anyone shutting borders for the flu... or building more hospitals as fast as they can... play it down, play it down...
It doesn't need to get that point yet. Or maybe at all. A lot of private entities have stopped travel and major medical centers, especially in areas with high risk populations, are asking the right questions in triage and registration. Keeping it isolated and as contained as possible is the best tool; doesn't matter if it's ebola, black plague, or a cold.
I dont set anyone shutting borders for the flu... or building more hospitals as fast as they can... play it down, play it down...
Relative to limiting the spread of influenza (or any other respiratory virus), the CDC broadly publishes recommendations for basic hygiene and other techniques as to how to do that, and the population in the US is only minimally compliant...things as simple as handwashing and alcohol-based hand cleansers. Certainly that seems like a more sensible place to start rather than asking people to pay more for their health insurance to cover building a bunch of hospitals. They aren't playing it down...you're ignoring them.
14+ day asymptomatic contagious period would be very desirable in a bio weapon. Just sayn'
I can't stop thinking about this aspect of it.
While it does not at this point seem to be the most deadly thing, the way spreads and the lab it likely came from is very worrying to me at his point until we know more.
Relative to limiting the spread of influenza (or any other respiratory virus), the CDC broadly publishes recommendations for basic hygiene and other techniques as to how to do that, and the population in the US is only minimally compliant...things as simple as handwashing and alcohol-based hand cleansers. Certainly that seems like a more sensible place to start rather than asking people to pay more for their health insurance to cover building a bunch of hospitals. They aren't playing it down...you're ignoring them.
Yes! Healthcare workers are horrible with basic hygiene and prevention. "We" (royal "we") are often hypocritical in this aspect.
StovePipe_Jammer
01-28-20, 09:23
I can't stop thinking about this aspect of it.
While it does not at this point seem to be the most deadly thing, the way spreads and the lab it likely came from is very worrying to me at his point until we know more.
http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jan/26/coronavirus-link-china-biowarfare-program-possible/
"One ominous sign, said a U.S. official, is that false rumors circulating on the Chinese internet claim the virus is part of a U.S. conspiracy to spread germ weapons. That could indicate China is preparing propaganda outlets to counter any charges that the new coronavirus escaped from one of Wuhan’s civilian or defense research laboratories."
The finger pointing alone could spiral into something much worse if it the virus walked out of their fancy lab with a careless lab tech.
Depending on how bad things get and where it actually originated, China is going to save face and protect it's image. Even if it stays largely confined to that country and ends up being no more deadly than the normal flu, having the population believe it was our country that caused it could have a wide-reaching impact.
Update. The thing is if you are going to contain this you need to quarantine people coming from China for a month or so.
https://www.dailywire.com/news/breaking-new-chinese-reports-show-coronavirus-rapidly-spreading-deaths-infections-surging
"The New York Times reported yesterday that the rapid spread of the virus led China’s communist government to expanding its quarantine to an “unprecedented scope affecting 56 million people.”
“China on Tuesday reported 25 more deaths from a new viral disease, raising the total to at least 106, as the U.S. government prepared to fly Americans out of the city at the center of the outbreak,” The Associated Press reported. “There were 1,771 new cases confirmed on Monday, raising the national total to 4,515, according to the National Health Commission. It said 976 were in serious condition.”
Our school and hospital have a sister campus in China. The school is offering travel stipends to get folks out:
https://www.foxnews.com/health/duke-university-students-coronavirus-china
Again it is asking for trouble to repatriate Americans without keeping them in isolation until it is proven they are not carriers. But will it happen, not likely until things get much worse.
It doesn't need to get that point yet. Or maybe at all. A lot of private entities have stopped travel and major medical centers, especially in areas with high risk populations, are asking the right questions in triage and registration. Keeping it isolated and as contained as possible is the best tool; doesn't matter if it's ebola, black plague, or a cold.But they are and I am certain whoever decided that was best is likely more qualified than anyone on the forum to determine if it's gotten to that point or not. Ask all the questions you want and cross your fingers that people are doing proper hand hygiene, but if something is contagious enough AND the people don't know they are sick, it doesn't matter. It will spread. I am by no means a high level SME, but I've gained enough knowledge to know that people are obtuse and selfish in these matters. Couple that with ignorance and outright dumbassery and I understand completely why borders have been shut down.
Adrenaline_6
01-28-20, 12:52
What happens if you have the Coronavirus + Lyme disease?
But they are and I am certain whoever decided that was best is likely more qualified than anyone on the forum to determine if it's gotten to that point or not. Ask all the questions you want and cross your fingers that people are doing proper hand hygiene, but if something is contagious enough AND the people don't know they are sick, it doesn't matter. It will spread. I am by no means a high level SME, but I've gained enough knowledge to know that people are obtuse and selfish in these matters. Couple that with ignorance and outright dumbassery and I understand completely why borders have been shut down.
I am a SME in this area from the PH and hospital preparedness perspective. I do agree people are obtuse and selfish enough to do what is in their best interests, but the right start to preparedness is isolation and containment, and in MTFs IS to ask where they have been and what (if any) symptoms they have. That is how you start defining that your specific MTF or jurisdiction has to do, and it's that data that gets transmitted to the CDC.
I am a SME in this area from the PH and hospital preparedness perspective. I do agree people are obtuse and selfish enough to do what is in their best interests, but the right start to preparedness is isolation and containment, and in MTFs IS to ask where they have been and what (if any) symptoms they have. That is how you start defining that your specific MTF or jurisdiction has to do, and it's that data that gets transmitted to the CDC.I'll give that an amen
I'll give that an amen
I will also say, you are right, people don't effing wash their hands, which is the most bestest way to prevent ANY disease transmission. During periods of peak flu season our hospital put hand-washing kiosks with sinks and soap by every entrance; even then, maybe half will wash hands. It has gotten bad enough we have cops standing there calling out people, not letting them on the elevators to the bed towers until they wash their hands.
Outlander Systems
01-28-20, 13:53
I don't understand, given our current knowledge and understanding of pathology, how nasty asses still can't even perform basic hygiene.
I will also say, you are right, people don't effing wash their hands, which is the most bestest way to prevent ANY disease transmission. During periods of peak flu season our hospital put hand-washing kiosks with sinks and soap by every entrance; even then, maybe half will wash hands. It has gotten bad enough we have cops standing there calling out people, not letting them on the elevators to the bed towers until they wash their hands.
I don't understand, given our current knowledge and understanding of pathology, how nasty asses still can't even perform basic hygiene.Because people are assclowns. Most Americans and many others think that the universe revolves around them.
I will also say, you are right, people don't effing wash their hands, which is the most bestest way to prevent ANY disease transmission. During periods of peak flu season our hospital put hand-washing kiosks with sinks and soap by every entrance; even then, maybe half will wash hands. It has gotten bad enough we have cops standing there calling out people, not letting them on the elevators to the bed towers until they wash their hands.
Fortunately I wasn't drinking coffee while reading this. :D
teufelhund1918
01-29-20, 05:29
I don't understand, given our current knowledge and understanding of pathology, how nasty asses still can't even perform basic hygiene.
My uncle was put down hard with some funky bug a while ago. After trying to figure out what had caused it, it ended up being from the illegal mexicans his boss hired not using toilet paper or washing their hands after using the restroom and then using the water fountain, passing along what ever bacteria they had to the fountain. That is where he got his bug. When he got better, he pulled them all together for a heated heart to heart discussion about their hygiene. They now wash their hands and use TP.... he's a pretty big man and pretty dang intimidating when he needs to be....
Outlander Systems
01-29-20, 06:56
So gross duder.
People. Wash your nasty freakin’ hands.
My uncle was put down hard with some funky bug a while ago. After trying to figure out what had caused it, it ended up being from the illegal mexicans his boss hired not using toilet paper or washing their hands after using the restroom and then using the water fountain, passing along what ever bacteria they had to the fountain. That is where he got his bug. When he got better, he pulled them all together for a heated heart to heart discussion about their hygiene. They now wash their hands and use TP.... he's a pretty big man and pretty dang intimidating when he needs to be....
I will also say, you are right, people don't effing wash their hands, which is the most bestest way to prevent ANY disease transmission. During periods of peak flu season our hospital put hand-washing kiosks with sinks and soap by every entrance; even then, maybe half will wash hands. It has gotten bad enough we have cops standing there calling out people, not letting them on the elevators to the bed towers until they wash their hands.Personal hygiene aside I was always curious how much if any effect washing hands has on preventing getting sick during flu season. I mean, I wash my hands but im always touching stuff others have touched. Walking around a store people are always coughing, sneezing, touching products that I later touch. Even in public bathrooms.....sinks, paper towels, even the blow-dry machines are supposedly full of germs.
I don't understand, given our current knowledge and understanding of pathology, how nasty asses still can't even perform basic hygiene.
It's unreal. I work for our county, and I can't tell you how many times I've been in the bathroom and seen or heard people leave without washing their hands. Unbelievable.
Outlander Systems
01-29-20, 08:47
When I see this, I imagine them living in house with overflowing garbage cans, empty beer cans laying across the carpet, and fungal Cheeto dust covering every surface in a sticky sweet shell.
It's unreal. I work for our county, and I can't tell you how many times I've been in the bathroom and seen or heard people leave without washing their hands. Unbelievable.
Hmm interesting that planeload of Americans just evacuated from Wuhan have been flown to March AFB CA where a hanger has been prepared for them to be quarantined for the next "2 days to 2 weeks". But nothing to see here move along.
Flight from epicenter of coronavirus outbreak redirected to March Air Reserve Base in Riverside County
https://www.ocregister.com/2020/01/28/flight-from-epicenter-of-coronavirus-outbreak-redirected-to-march-air-force-base-in-riverside-county/
US evacuation flight from China's coronavirus zone rerouted to March Air Reserve Base
https://abcnews.go.com/US/us-chartering-evacuation-flight-wuhan-coronavirus-zone-california/story?id=68571310
"The flight, with more than 200 people aboard, is now scheduled to arrive at March Air Reserve Base in Riverside County, California, about 30 miles from where the flight was originally scheduled to land, in Ontario, California, just outside of Los Angeles.
Officials with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention made the announcement Tuesday night Pacific time after informing California officials about the change."
Coronavirus: British Airways Suspends Flights to China, UK Will Quarantine Citizens For Two Weeks
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2020/01/29/coronavirus-british-airways-suspends-flights-to-china-uk-will-quarantine-citizens-for-two-weeks/
If this is going to be the next great global pandemic, I hope at least people reanimate and we get zombies.
vicious_cb
01-29-20, 10:31
Waiting for the Chinese media blackout...once that happens you know its become FUBAR in the Middle Kingdom.
Whiskey_Bravo
01-29-20, 10:33
I travel a lot for work so am in airports on a regular basis. The amount of nasty ass people I see leaving not just a urinal, but a stall and not washing their hands always boggles my mind. FFS was your hands at least after taking a dump.
Waiting for the Chinese media blackout...once that happens you know its become FUBAR in the Middle Kingdom.
There won't be a media blackout just more disinformation pushing.
Report: China Deliberately Spreading Misinformation About Coronavirus To Convince World Health Authorities Outbreak Is Under Control
https://www.dailywire.com/news/report-china-deliberately-spreading-misinformation-about-coronavirus-to-convince-world-health-authorities-outbreak-is-under-control
“The publication and the bureaucrat said enterprising workers in Wuhan had constructed the hospital in just 16 hours. “In reality, the picture showed an apartment building more than 600 miles away.”
Reports: Communist Party Actively Deflating Coronavirus Patient Counts
https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2020/01/28/reports-communist-party-actively-deflating-coronavirus-patient-counts/
"Government health workers in China are actively refusing to test likely cases of the newly discovered coronavirus originating in central Wuhan city, a report claimed on Monday, echoing witness accounts that Wuhan hospitals turned them away despite displaying telltale signs of infection."
China Claims Wuhan Virus Spread Is Miraculously Declining, Defying Experts
https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2020/01/29/china-claims-wuhan-virus-spread-is-miraculously-declining-defying-experts/
China’s National Health Commission claimed on Wednesday the rate of infection for the new deadly coronavirus originating in central Wuhan city is miraculously declining, directly contradicting estimates by public health experts the spread will continue to accelerate and peak only after a few months and finally begin declining in the summer.
OK this shit just got real.:neo:
McDonald’s closes all branches in virus-hit Chinese province
https://www.breitbart.com/news/mcdonalds-closes-all-branches-in-virus-hit-chinese-province/
just a scout
01-29-20, 12:12
OK this shit just got real.:neo:
McDonald’s closes all branches in virus-hit Chinese province
https://www.breitbart.com/news/mcdonalds-closes-all-branches-in-virus-hit-chinese-province/
Yeah, but what about the Waffle Houses? When those start shutting down, I'm locking up and getting ready for The Walking Dead.
If this is going to be the next great global pandemic, I hope at least people reanimate and we get zombies.
I mean, I feel like we're halfway there...
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49460836891_f81d04bf61_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2imFHBR)83862419_2683266938428938_715001012699529216_n (https://flic.kr/p/2imFHBR) by Jacob Allen (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154914566@N03/), on Flickr51E[/url]
Outlander Systems
01-29-20, 13:07
Not gonna lie; I had RE2 Flashbacks from this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooF8Br87kjI&t=62s
I mean, I feel like we're halfway there...
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49460836891_f81d04bf61_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2imFHBR)83862419_2683266938428938_715001012699529216_n (https://flic.kr/p/2imFHBR) by Jacob Allen (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154914566@N03/), on Flickr51E[/url]
I mean, I feel like we're halfway there...
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49460836891_f81d04bf61_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2imFHBR)83862419_2683266938428938_715001012699529216_n (https://flic.kr/p/2imFHBR) by Jacob Allen (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154914566@N03/), on Flickr51E[/url]
Yeah that’s a bit eerie
My uncle was put down hard with some funky bug a while ago. After trying to figure out what had caused it, it ended up being from the illegal mexicans his boss hired not using toilet paper or washing their hands after using the restroom and then using the water fountain, passing along what ever bacteria they had to the fountain. That is where he got his bug. When he got better, he pulled them all together for a heated heart to heart discussion about their hygiene. They now wash their hands and use TP.... he's a pretty big man and pretty dang intimidating when he needs to be....
At one of the medical centers in El Paso there are bilingual signs in the restrooms that not only remind users to wash hands after using the toilet, but also to poop IN the toilet, and then put the used toilet paper IN the toilet, and then flush. I'm not kidding.
Some where in my photo archives I have a great picture of the do's & don'ts of what to use the toilet for. Included but not limited to the don'ts: bathing, washing clothes and squatting on the seat while pooping onto the seat.
It's unreal. I work for our county, and I can't tell you how many times I've been in the bathroom and seen or heard people leave without washing their hands. Unbelievable.
Saw this last night, actually. Dude walked away from the urinal, bare handed the door with out washing his hands, then went to employee area to start bagging food orders for Amazon Prime members. Whole Foods on Las Vegas blvd, fyi....
Averageman
01-29-20, 14:25
China isn't going to do anything that's not in its own best self interest.
Shutting down a major sector of their economy isn't going to make them the number one super power.
I think that this is a lot bigger than we know.
China isn't going to do anything that's not in its own best self interest.
Shutting down a major sector of their economy isn't going to make them the number one super power.
I think that this is a lot bigger than we know.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200129/1f3c1cb01238803146ea92f00e7ec95f.jpg
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MountainRaven
01-29-20, 14:43
China isn't going to do anything that's not in its own best self interest.
Shutting down a major sector of their economy isn't going to make them the number one super power.
I think that this is a lot bigger than we know.
Losing a large part of their population and facing internal unrest from failing to protect their people will be a lot worse for them.
Averageman
01-29-20, 16:10
Losing a large part of their population and facing internal unrest from failing to protect their people will be a lot worse for them.
I understand what you are saying, but I think you're looking at this through a set of very "western" eyes.
These are the same folks who sent human wave attacks right in to the mouths of machine guns during the Korean war. My Dad was a Corpsman at Chosin, he told me the Chinese were sending up troops without shoes. I just don't think they've suddenly become compassionate to the peasants.
They play the long game and this event just changed the rules for how they were going about winning.
I'm very curious to know whats going on because this isn't the normal flu.
I understand what you are saying, but I think you're looking at this through a set of very "western" eyes.
These are the same folks who sent human wave attacks right in to the mouths of machine guns during the Korean war. My Dad was a Corpsman at Chosin, he told me the Chinese were sending up troops without shoes. I just don't think they've suddenly become compassionate to the peasants.
They play the long game and this event just changed the rules for how they were going about winning.
I'm very curious to know whats going on because this isn't the normal flu.I don't think these are the people willing to die for a cause. In Korea it was against the evil Capitalist empire.
SomeOtherGuy
01-29-20, 17:39
I don't think these are the people willing to die for a cause. In Korea it was against the evil Capitalist empire.
I don't think the people dying in China were asked to die for a cause, nor do they get any choice about it. They are just the expendable pawns for the current rulers. And I'm not sure Chinese troops in Korea c. 1952 had any more choice about it either.
This is an interesting chart.
60624
It’s just the flu guys. Stop freaking out.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Losing a large part of their population and facing internal unrest from failing to protect their people will be a lot worse for them.
It's a totalitarian government. This is just another day at the office for them.
"Large part of their population"? Good lord this won't even be the faintest blip on their next census.
Big red won’t blink a eye if the lose 2.5% of their population.
Yeah 2.5% is only 8,250,000 Americans or 35,925,000 Chinese or 195,000,000 of world population.
That 2.5 percent comes to 30 million people. The communists may not care, but that is gonna make for some seriously panicked people. Panicked people are mighty unpredictable and hard to control.
MountainRaven
01-29-20, 20:41
I understand what you are saying, but I think you're looking at this through a set of very "western" eyes.
These are the same folks who sent human wave attacks right in to the mouths of machine guns during the Korean war. My Dad was a Corpsman at Chosin, he told me the Chinese were sending up troops without shoes. I just don't think they've suddenly become compassionate to the peasants.
They play the long game and this event just changed the rules for how they were going about winning.
I'm very curious to know whats going on because this isn't the normal flu.
The Chinese do play the long game. And they don't care about individual people. I have no doubt that they would bulldoze Wuhan, raze it to the ground, if it meant saving the rest of the country.
Depopulation damages the Chinese economy. Chinese failure to control the outbreak embarrasses them publicly and internationally.
When Chinese governments have lost power and been overthrown in the past, it has been a direct result of enormous almost-cataclysmic events: A massive plague that the Chinese Communist Party cannot control demonstrates both the government's weakness to its people and demonstrates that the government has lost the Divine Mandate of Heaven. Both things that can easily result in civil unrest in China.
George Friedman's The Next 100 Years predicted a collapse of the Chinese government by the middle of the century and if the Chinese government cannot keep the Wuhan flu under control, it could easily be the wedge that drives the Chinese nation apart.
Yeah 2.5% is only 8,250,000 Americans or 35,925,000 Chinese or 195,000,000 of world population.
Yes that’s figured with everyone getting it. Even during the 1918 flu outbreak not everyone in the world had it.
Oh fer chrissake you ninnies. 170 people have died. Get a grip.
Y’all watch way too much TV
Oh fer chrissake you ninnies. 170 people have died. Get a grip.
Y’all watch way too much TVLast I read 170 have died and 70 have gotten over it and are no longer contagious
Averageman
01-29-20, 22:42
Last I read 170 have died and 70 have gotten over it and are no longer contagious
That's a hell of a mortality rate.
Where can I find those numbers?
Oh fer chrissake you ninnies. 170 people have died. Get a grip.
Y’all watch way too much TV
Agreed.
Saw this last night, actually. Dude walked away from the urinal, bare handed the door with out washing his hands, then went to employee area to start bagging food orders for Amazon Prime members. Whole Foods on Las Vegas blvd, fyi....
Knew there was a reason I don't go in that place. Other than the daylight robbery committed every day of course...
teufelhund1918
01-30-20, 05:27
Don't forget that there is a certain group of people in this world who think the world population should be held at 500 million. :big_boss:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones
1) Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature.
2) Guide reproduction wisely — improving fitness and diversity.
3) Unite humanity with a living new language.
4) Rule passion — faith — tradition — and all things with tempered reason.
5) Protect people and nations with fair laws and just courts.
6) Let all nations rule internally resolving external disputes in a world court.
7) Avoid petty laws and useless officials.
8) Balance personal rights with social duties.
9) Prize truth — beauty — love — seeking harmony with the infinite.
10) Be not a cancer on the earth — Leave room for nature — Leave room for nature
Knocking off a few million Chinese and some other collateral damage will go along way for "those who we shall not speak of" :sarcastic:
That's a hell of a mortality rate.
Where can I find those numbers?Well, we don't know yet. There's still several thousand that are sick. Are the dead mainly old and sick or young and healthy?
In fact we don't know much. Are the numbers real? At this point everything is speculation
Oh fer chrissake you ninnies. 170 people have died. Get a grip.
Y’all watch way too much TV
A week ago the number was 26. That's a helluva jump, and that's going off of the PRC's numbers. The real number is likely to be far higher. I don't think this particular bout of Chinese super plague will end the world, but I think its perfectly reasonable for people to pay attention to it and speculate.
IIRC, during Desert Storm the death toll for the military declined. Sound planning and the vigilance of being newly-deployed kept casualties low. You we actually more likely to killed away from theater due to carelessness, accidents etc.. Is it possible this could be a similar situation where due to the precautions people are taking worldwide, the overall mortality rate drops?
IIRC, during Desert Storm the death toll for the military declined. Sound planning and the vigilance of being newly-deployed kept casualties low. You we actually more likely to killed away from theater due to carelessness, accidents etc.. Is it possible this could be a similar situation where due to the precautions people are taking worldwide, the overall mortality rate drops?
I tend to suspect the reason for lower combat death rates is the same reason more people live past childhood and that is modern medicine. From what I can recall, WWII was the first American conflict time frame where disease didn't kill more US personnel than actual fighting.
Oh fer chrissake you ninnies. 170 people have died. Get a grip.
Y’all watch way too much TV
You are right, guess we need to just be thankful a more lethal version didn't escape he lab this time and hope it doesn't mutate. And of course no need to be paranoid of a government that killed 45 million of their own for the Great Leap Forward.
Whiskey_Bravo
01-30-20, 08:46
Oh fer chrissake you ninnies. 170 people have died. Get a grip.
Y’all watch way too much TV
Taking the Chinese government at their word is a hard pill to swallow.
StovePipe_Jammer
01-30-20, 09:52
Taking the Chinese government at their word is a hard pill to swallow.
I've been checking that map of where the infected are, how many recovered and how many have died. The numbers are coming from Johns Hopkins and a few other sources. It doesn't seem bad until you realize that even those sources can only report what they know and that's what the Chinese filter tells them.
We can only act on the information we have and have no way of knowing if the numbers from China are low-balled or not.
Oh fer chrissake you ninnies. 170 people have died. Get a grip.
Y’all watch way too much TV
Says the Chinese government, I mean whats not to trust about that? The Chinese government would never dream of incinerating as many bodies in hospital basements and not reporting them to the world right? Nope never, they'd never do that...
Anyway I'm still waiting to hear how many people who get it survive, we're still pretty early here.
Previously I had thought it an unfinished Bio weapon. But really it is extremely effective. If you give something that shows symptoms or kills them too quick its easier to stop the spread. It would seem this viruses strength is how fast and easily it spreads. Regardless of mortality rate it clearly renders people combat ineffective and a sponge for medical resources.
Worse than the death toll will be its economic impact. It will be terrible in china, bad enough to spread globally.
Here in America we think of China and their economy as a producer of cheap garbage we buy at walmart.
The reality is we rely on them for things too dirty to do here, like make phone and other smart device screens. Neither osha or epa would allow it in the usa.
China has actually become a huge buyer of goods from foreign companies. These companies are losing a huge number of their sales over something like this, especially at the Chinese new year.
We do rely heavily on china for batteries. Right now they are shutting down factories. My best friends father in law owns candy factories in China, currently his workers have been told not to goto work, but he still has to pay them. How long is that sustainable? This is one I know of first hand, how many factories does this spread to. 56 million are locked down, how may are also not working?
2.5% is only 8,250,000 Americans or 35,925,000 Chinese or 195,000,000 of world population.
You are right, guess we need to just be thankful a more lethal version didn't escape he lab this time and hope it doesn't mutate. And of course no need to be paranoid of a government that killed 45 million of their own for the Great Leap Forward.
:rolleyes:
Mauser KAR98K
01-30-20, 11:11
Says the Chinese government, I mean whats not to trust about that? The Chinese government would never dream of incinerating as many bodies in hospital basements and not reporting them to the world right? Nope never, they'd never do that...
Anyway I'm still waiting to hear how many people who get it survive, we're still pretty early here.
Previously I had thought it an unfinished Bio weapon. But really it is extremely effective. If you give something that shows symptoms or kills them too quick its easier to stop the spread. It would seem this viruses strength is how fast and easily it spreads. Regardless of mortality rate it clearly renders people combat ineffective and a sponge for medical resources.
Worse than the death toll will be its economic impact. It will be terrible in china, bad enough to spread globally.
Here in America we think of China and their economy as a producer of cheap garbage we buy at walmart.
The reality is we rely on them for things too dirty to do here, like make phone and other smart device screens. Neither osha or epa would allow it in the usa.
China has actually become a huge buyer of goods from foreign companies. These companies are losing a huge number of their sales over something like this, especially at the Chinese new year.
We do rely heavily on china for batteries. Right now they are shutting down factories. My best friends father in law owns candy factories in China, currently his workers have been told not to goto work, but he still has to pay them. How long is that sustainable? This is one I know of first hand, how many factories does this spread to. 56 million are locked down, how may are also not working?
Oil worker, here. Oil is tanking because of this. China was suppose to be buying my U.S. oil. Not now when demand is being quarantined.
Averageman
01-30-20, 11:24
The Leadership in China are now asking folks to quit posting on line about corona virus incidences.
I saw something online claiming the numbers of confirmed cases jumped 1,700 in 24 hours inside China.
Confirmed cases in UAE and Finland, a conformed case of a asymptomatic person passing the virus to three others in Germany.
Interesting.
Previously I had thought it an unfinished Bio weapon. But really it is extremely effective. If you give something that shows symptoms or kills them too quick its easier to stop the spread. It would seem this viruses strength is how fast and easily it spreads. Regardless of mortality rate it clearly renders people combat ineffective and a sponge for medical resources.
This is my thinking also, pretty much "OK we got the asymptotic fast spreading contagious part done now we work on making it more lethal".
Again the speed of spread in this chart is notable, not to say this could not occur in nature but it is exactly what you would want in a bio weapon.
teufelhund1918
01-30-20, 11:49
News is reporting the first person to person transmission of the virus in the USA.. how many people have come in contact with just these two people.... in two more weeks it'll be all over the place here and world wide.
Adrenaline_6
01-30-20, 12:06
This is my thinking also, pretty much "OK we got the asymptotic fast spreading contagious part done now we work on making it more lethal".
Again the speed of spread in this chart is notable, not to say this could not occur in nature but it is exactly what you would want in a bio weapon.
It would think it would also have to mutate quickly. The most lethal would be to spread easily and quickly but not look to harmful to be not taken very seriously, be airborne, be able to cross species contaminate, be hardy in different environmental conditions, then once spread effective able to constantly mutate to deadlier strains and prevent vaccination development. That would suck donkey.
Averageman
01-30-20, 12:28
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4g5IWKeiG_A
Long video, but good info, numbers are early in.
New as of last night I believe.
Whiskey_Bravo
01-30-20, 12:33
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51305526
It has now spread to every region in China.
Outlander Systems
01-30-20, 13:51
Well ****.
Where’s a good place to get N95 masks?
This is my thinking also, pretty much "OK we got the asymptotic fast spreading contagious part done now we work on making it more lethal".
Again the speed of spread in this chart is notable, not to say this could not occur in nature but it is exactly what you would want in a bio weapon.
Whiskey_Bravo
01-30-20, 14:18
Well ****.
Where’s a good place to get N95 masks?
Amazon is out. Head to lowes or HD.
Well ****.
Where’s a good place to get N95 masks?
Do you know anyone in healthcare?
Outlander Systems
01-30-20, 14:57
It just so happens, I do.
Do you know anyone in healthcare?
Well ****.
Where’s a good place to get N95 masks?
At this time I would look at lumber yards, paint stores, industrial supply stores and other stores that cater to workers that deal with dust/fumes. I would also pick up some chemical splash goggles and latex, vinyl or nitrile gloves.
This is interesting, is he blaming the commies?
"Zhang Wenhong, the leader of Shanghai’s effort to battle the Wuhan coronavirus, made some waves on Wednesday by suggesting Chinese Communist Party officials should be working on the frontlines against the disease, in keeping with their “oath to put the public welfare first.”
On Thursday the state-run Global Times reported Zhang has indeed “replaced all frontline doctors with Party members and the decision is non-negotiable.”
https://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2020/01/30/shanghai-medical-chief-replaces-doctors-communists-fight-coronavirus/
And WHO has caught up.
World Health Organization Declares International Emergency over Coronavirus
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/01/30/world-health-organization-declares-international-emergency-over-coronavirus/
Well ****.
Where’s a good place to get N95 masks?
This should help you:
https://imgur.com/gallery/0R46WuT
This is interesting, is he blaming the commies?
"Zhang Wenhong, the leader of Shanghai’s effort to battle the Wuhan coronavirus, made some waves on Wednesday by suggesting Chinese Communist Party officials should be working on the frontlines against the disease, in keeping with their “oath to put the public welfare first.”
On Thursday the state-run Global Times reported Zhang has indeed “replaced all frontline doctors with Party members and the decision is non-negotiable.”
https://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2020/01/30/shanghai-medical-chief-replaces-doctors-communists-fight-coronavirus/
And WHO has caught up.
World Health Organization Declares International Emergency over Coronavirus
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/01/30/world-health-organization-declares-international-emergency-over-coronavirus/
Lol at WHO
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200130/bd7d954b03ade538e16e331ad78e9bc0.jpg
https://apnews.com/0f0f07b30c8cdd2b0f30c6081acc7599
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200130/64152deca78b380cc210c296ee82613e.jpg
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
teufelhund1918
01-30-20, 16:01
https://imgur.com/gallery/0R46WuT :haha: Are used ones ok?
Outlander Systems
01-30-20, 16:58
LMFAO!!!
Some of these field expedient suits are genius.
This should help you:
https://imgur.com/gallery/0R46WuT
This cracks me up.
60647
That is great.
just a scout
01-30-20, 18:47
At this time I would look at lumber yards, paint stores, industrial supply stores and other stores that cater to workers that deal with dust/fumes. I would also pick up some chemical splash goggles and latex, vinyl or nitrile gloves.
You want nitrile. Latex and vinyl are microporous and will let biologics through.
As for masks, you want something rated N-95 or P-100 by NIOSH. If it gets really exciting, anything that takes a 40mm Thread can use a CS/CN training filter which is rated P-100 or use CBRN filters.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Watched a news chick wearing a mask that she hadn't formed to her nose....probably 1/2" gaps either side of her nose.
She also said it was voluntary where ever she was at, but everyone there was wearing them all while people were walking behind her not wearing masks.
Outlander Systems
01-30-20, 19:24
Good luck. Every Home Depot within 100mi of me is oos...
https://i.ibb.co/Pgqzd7f/EDC56911-3-FD0-4-F2-F-938-D-412-A075-FC249.jpg
You want nitrile. Latex and vinyl are microporous and will let biologics through.
As for masks, you want something rated N-95 or P-100 by NIOSH. If it gets really exciting, anything that takes a 40mm Thread can use a CS/CN training filter which is rated P-100 or use CBRN filters.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Averageman
01-30-20, 19:44
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXlm2fdQSoo
This was concerning to me three days ago when I saw that flights from Wuhan were still leaving for CONUS, add to that, at best we were taking temperatures of those coming off of the flights.
I'm not sure how that could have been handled worse.
Adrenaline_6
01-30-20, 19:54
My Home Depot had a box of 2-pack 3M N95 masks with cool flow exhalation valves high up on the stocking rack shelf and were out below on the shelves. The HD brand was almost out. I climbed up there and got it, even with my bad back and gave half (3) to a woman who was looking for some.
I figured I will stay ahead of the curve and if not needed I will use them for yard work.
My Home Depot had a box of 2-pack 3M N95 masks with cool flow exhalation valves high up on the stocking rack shelf and were out below on the shelves. The HD brand was almost out. I climbed up there and got it, even with my bad back and gave half (3) to a woman who was looking for some.
I figured I will stay ahead of the curve and if not needed I will use them for yard work.
I ordered a 20 pack of N95 masks off eBay last Saturday and the same seller was out of stock a day later. I, too, use them for yard work so they'll get used one way or another.
vicious_cb
01-30-20, 21:45
By this time next week at the range...
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2FzZn1CsCNzZw%2Fmaxresdefault.jpg&f=1&nofb=1
Averageman
01-30-20, 22:33
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32lkCBIReb0
Over 9,600 cases 15,000 suspected.
And then there is this genius.
An American who flew out of China on a chartered flight tried to leave a Southern California military base where authorities have been monitoring nearly 200 people for coronavirus symptoms, health officials said.
The unidentified person has been ordered to stay in quarantine at the March Air Reserve Base until the “entire incubation period or until otherwise cleared,” Riverside County Public Health said in a statement Thursday.
The incubation period will be 14 days.
“This action was taken as a result of the unknown risk to the public should someone leave MARB early without undergoing a full health evaluation,” the agency said.
StovePipe_Jammer
01-31-20, 07:29
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
I've been checking this site periodically seeing the rise of infected. Anyone else notice the rise on the graph looks too "clean"?
vicious_cb
01-31-20, 10:01
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
I've been checking this site periodically seeing the rise of infected. Anyone else notice the rise on the graph looks too "clean"?
It looks clean because thats how an exponential growth curve naturally looks. That means all their efforts are doing nothing to stop the spread of the virus.
SomeOtherGuy
01-31-20, 10:23
Meanwhile, CNN is focusing on the issues that REALLY matter:
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/cnn-angry-too-many-white-people-are-trying-stop-coronavirus-spreading
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/cnn-angry-too-many-white-people-are-trying-stop-coronavirus-spreading
Meanwhile, CNN is focusing on the issues that REALLY matter:
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/cnn-angry-too-many-white-people-are-trying-stop-coronavirus-spreading
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/cnn-angry-too-many-white-people-are-trying-stop-coronavirus-spreading
What a bunch of dolts, although not unexpected from them. Maybe the CDC can call Somalia, Crapistan and Liberia and have them send us their finest to join the effort. You know, because diversity is our strength. Is CNN also railing against lack of diversity among ComDem presidential candidates?
Whiskey_Bravo
01-31-20, 12:22
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12304547
China sending bodies straight from the hospital to be cremated? I would not put it past them.
Doubts have been raised about the official death toll, however, with claims Chinese authorities have been cremating bodies in secret.
Chinese-language news outlet Initium interviewed people working at local cremation centres in Wuhan, who said bodies were being sent directly from hospitals without being properly identified and added to the official record.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10860656/coronavirus-horror-dead-man-street/
Although it's not known if the grey-haired man died of the killer bug, it is clear from these pictures the authorities were taking no chances.
After being inspected the body was eventually zipped into a medical bag and carried into a van before the street was thoroughly disinfected.
Those who examined him were also sprayed down by colleagues after removing their protective suits.
One onlooker said she believed the local had died from an illness caused by the killer virus.
Couple of things I would like to know but it might be too early, first if you catch this do you need to be hospitalized to have a good chance of surviving it and second are there any long term or permanent effects like weakened lungs or anything else.
Couple of things I would like to know but it might be too early, first if you catch this do you need to be hospitalized to have a good chance of surviving it and second are there any long term or permanent effects like weakened lungs or anything else.
As long as you dont loose the ability to see your front site and dont loose any dexterity in your trigger finger you should be gtg.
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